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The rich, the poor, and the chasm between

TAVIA GRANT

Globe and Mail Update

Latest comment posted at 9:05 AM EDT 01/05/08

Census data released Thursday show recent immigrants victims of widening income disparity as middle class stagnates ...Read the full article

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  1. Milos Gravity from Canada writes: You should see the gap between people who work really hard and save and those who don't. That's a gap.
  2. Comments closed, censored, deleted or made to disappear from Mini Bushland, Canada writes: 'The rich, the poor, and the chasm between', by Karl Marx, nineteenth century! Time for some substantial reading. Long overdue!
  3. CD W from Canada writes: The paper cup parasite should be on the Toronto Flag and letterhead. When you create a situation whereby people can engage in total personal freedom and can demand that we pay for it, well you get cup boy. When Gerard Kennedy was Minister of Education he was on a call in radio show. He said that every child would be in school, so I am driving off the Gardiner at Spadina where the parasites block traffic for cash. I am on the phone with the Minister and I tell him that there is a truant yoot demanding cash from me. The kid looked 13 or 14. The Minister was not interested in coming down to pick him up. So this is where it starts. If there was no acceptance of children begging for money with older adults at highway cut offs, you might stop some of this.

    As for the gap between rich and poor, when I was making very little money, it was enough to keep me from GST rebates and other payments. Now that I am so far away from those things, it turns out that I am not living any higher on the hog as I was before, I just have no debt and like other Canadians, the house is almost paid off. Does this make me rich? The government says yes, so when you start using stats, I am not fooled.
  4. Rosehill Avenue from Toronto, Canada writes: Nothing surprising at all here.

    In my opinion, income/wealth disparity is the number one issue facing our society today globally. (I've had some very intelligent and respected ppl tell me they think its global warming but I think its #2)
  5. Allan Gunn from Kirkland Lake, Canada writes: Well I for one have to agree that that the poorer are getting to be just that poorer.
    I have always managed to save and put away money for a so called rainy day. I am just barely holding my own now. I am I supose one of the lucky ones in the fact that I have owned my home outright for a long time but in saying this I am finding it incresingly harder and harder to hang on to it.
  6. Winston Churchill from London, Canada writes: Picture certainly establishes something I've long known: when people saying 'working class' or 'bottom quintile' they really mean those who don't work at all, some of whom have no intention of starting. What's Oscar Wilde's joke -- work is the vice of the drinking class?

    Feel sorry for the immigrants, however. What can be done? Most arrive effectively unskilled. How many convenience store clerks and cab drivers do we need?
  7. L'actualite Conservative from Scarborough, Canada writes: Stories based on statistics without statistical context are the lowest and laziest form of the fith estate. The G&M should be ashamed of publishing stories like this.
  8. K F from Canada writes: Parasite? What a way to describe people. And, you own a house... I'd say that was privilege - in fact, your comments drip of privilege CD W.

    Street Health Stories might help some humanize the 'parasites' as you call them http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-omQ5rr3GUk or check http://www.streethealth.ca/home.htm and scroll down to see a film using statistics.
  9. Mark Orr from Toronto, Canada writes: CDW I agree, I NEVER give pan handlers money. If people stopped giving them money, we would have ZERO pan handlers. If they are in a real crisis, they can go to a soup kitchen. But since soup kitchens do not provide booze or drugs, I guess they don't bother. I actually offered to buy a 'starving' pan handler a hot dog once...but unsurprisingly he was only taking cash.....
  10. Milos Gravity from Canada writes: ...and what exactly does the picture of the hobo have to do with this story and the poor? Are you implying, Globe, that it's just a decent job that stands between this bum and mortgage payments, soccer practice and Rotary meetings? Or that if we stopped to put some money in his cup he'd rush off and open a business?
  11. Not left,right or centre but forward got it from Toronto, Canada writes: What ever happened to a meritocracy? Why is everyones ability to live high on the hog my responsibility. We live in a society and with that comes responsibility for your neighbours. I support paying for hope so that those without have a chance to climb up. Get an education, work hard be productive and you'll do well. Education is mandatory at first then affordable within reason. We have a good charter that protects people from discrimination and a reasonable court system with low crime. We have welfare, socialized medicine and food banks plus all the local charities. There is nothing stopping someone capable from giving themselves a hand up. What more do you want? Does anybody ever look at the poor equation from the other side? How can a person made bad decisions in life and expect to come out on top? Didn't want to work hard in school, dropped out, bitched about how you were entitled to more money despite being unskilled. Too bad. You reap what you sow.
  12. Ricky for a Centrist Canada from Canada writes:
    I see the Con trolls are out in full force with their stereotypes again.

    Poor = lazy.

    How comforting that must be for you.

    Idiots.
  13. Cooler Head from West of TO, Canada writes: Someone tell me exactly what George Soros or Stephen Schwartzman do to earn their $2 billion plus last year.

    To put it in perspective, a minimum wage earner working 2000 hours last year would have made $16 000. So, to equal Soros, that same wage earner would have to work 143 750 years.

    Seems perfectly reasonable doesn't it?
  14. L'actualite Conservative from Scarborough, Canada writes: Odd how the G&M forgot to add these notes from the Stats Can report

    The tax system, however, has helped to reduce the widening gap in incomes, according to the report from the census, which for the first time includes after-tax incomes as well.

    'After-tax income depicts in a better fashion what families have available to spend,' the report said

    The collection of after-tax information allowed for what some argue is also a better measure of the proportion of low-income Canadians,

    On an after-tax basis, the proportion of Canadians living on low incomes in 2005 was 11.4 per cent, rising to a high of 14.5 per cent for children five and under who lived in low-income families, it said.

    low-income Canadians, which Statistics Canada define as those living in families that spend 20 percentage points or more of their after-tax income than the average family on the basics of food, shelter, and clothing.
  15. Unknown Philosopher from Canada writes: Could the explanation lie in the relative huge influx(supply) of immigrants in the past 10 years. I think something like 200,000 to 300,000 per year in that period Lots more people competing for the jobs that immigrants typically fall into could explain to some measure the relative drop in recent immigrant incomes.
  16. Comments closed, censored, deleted or made to disappear from Mini Bushland, Canada writes: Not left,right or centre but forward got it: 'Get an education, work hard be productive and you'll do well.' -- Extreme voluntarism. How trite! Even children, with their limited experience of life, already know better by age 10. They still remain fundamentally human and compassionate, having not been totally dehumanized yet. Makes me think of the child in Cormac McCarthy's 'The Road'... human even The Day After, human to the last breath.
  17. J.C. Davies from Canada writes:
    Majority of immigrants are not admitted to Canada because of their skills. Family class immigrants are the largest group. As a result the majority of immigrants are not literate in English or French. This accounts (in part) for the failure of recent immigrants to keep up with those born in Canada.
  18. Cuban Cigar from Canada writes: CD W, Mark Orr - You must absolutly hate me. I always give to the panhandlers. As a matter of fact, I make sure I have some toonies and loonies in my car or in my pocket for just such opportunities. I feel bad / guilty when I don't have change and encounter a panhandler (or a street musician especially) I don't consider them parasites at all. I look at them and often think, there for the grace of god... I realize they more than likely buy booze and drugs, but who am I to judge or dictate their behaviour. Yes, there are some who take advantage but I think most are lost souls who need help but we as a sociey have decided that we would rather have a tax cut instead. As for the income gap - this is exactly the result. The poor live at the privilage of the rich. The rich decide what services the poor are to receive. Medical assistance (i think most street people suffer from some type of disorder) is no longer a right but a privilage confered upon them by the rich - if and when they choose to do so. The result is that the middle class (I suspect CD W, Mark Orr, we belong) is lost and government policies are dictated by the elite. Democracy is lost. Result, soon perhaps not us, but our children or their children will be on the streets and will be called parasites.
  19. I, Publius from Canada writes: Kudos to JC for pointing out the changing nature of the class categorized as 'immigrants'. If the skill level does not remain constant, how can the average earnings?

    I would also like to know why it is so bad that the real purchasing power of the middle income hasn't changed? The Globe sort of slips in that the numbers are inflation adjusted.

    As for the rich getting richer... go back to JC's point on the skill set of the immigrants. If the folks who have new ideas can now market them globally, of course they'll be doing better than if they are constrained to a local market.

    Another point lost on some is that it is not the 'rich' getting richer. It is the avearge income of the top earners that is getting higher. I'm pretty sure that the Eaton Family is not 'richer' now than it was prior to bankruptcy.
  20. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    J.C. Davies: Greetings

    ' ... As a result the majority of immigrants are not literate in English or French. This accounts (in part) for the failure of recent immigrants to keep up with those born in Canada....'

    The real reason is disappearance of high skilled jobs from Canada, and proliferation of Wal-Mart greeters and Tim Horten order takers.

    After 35 years here in Canada I had to go to the US to get a decent job. But you do have a point. My English skills did deteriorate during my stay in Canada until I was unfit for a job here.

    BTW I did teach at MBA level at a French University in Montreal in early 1990s - just if you were wondering if being bi-lingual is the answer. It was useful 40 years ago. I would now advise my kids to take up Chinese.
  21. Unknown Philosopher from Canada writes: Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    We need to abandon Democracy, and seek a better system.

    Democracy is the rule of the Demos, the 5-10% monied males who rule over women, slaves, plebs, and helots.

    This is nonsense. We live in an age of hyperdemocracy. The masses are in charge and it does have its own dangers.

    Before you respond with your usual slant read this.

    http://www.4literature.net/JoseOrtegayGasset/RevoltoftheMasses/

    I see we've become attached to the word helots.
  22. Mr. Sarcasm from Toronto, Canada writes: Cooler Head from West of TO, Canada writes: 'Someone tell me exactly what George Soros or Stephen Schwartzman do to earn their $2 billion plus last year.'

    Although I am not one of his biggest fans, George Soros actually donates an obscene amount of money every year to various charities. And he makes in money by being an expert in global markets (i.e. currencies), not wasting time by complaining on a chat board.

    Why he needs to apologize to you for being intelligent and have the ability to translate that into money is mind boggling.
  23. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: Ricky for a Centrist Canada from Canada writes: 'Poor = lazy.'

    Ricky, you have that backwards: Lazy = Poor.

    As NOT LEFT,RIGHT OR CENTRE writes 'How can a person make bad decisions in life and expect to come out on top? Didn't want to work hard in school, dropped out, bitched about how you were entitled to more money despite being unskilled. Too bad. You reap what you sow.'

    I made bad decisions 25 years ago. But after 5 years of living the results of those bad decisions I returned to school and actually took responsibility for myself. Now I am a highly paid IT professional, I own a nice house, rental properties, and other investments. In fact, everyone I know who actually thinks through their decisions and works hard are doing very well. Everyone I know who refuses to admit that their decisions may not have been the best choices and/or they don't want to put in a little extra effort are not doing so well.

    Its not being a conservative, its being a realist.
  24. Pete H from Canada writes: Ricky for a Centrist Canada from Canada writes:
    I see the Con trolls are out in full force with their stereotypes again.

    Poor = lazy.

    How comforting that must be for you.

    Idiots.

    I see a loonie lefty is sterotyping based on ill informed and partisan blindness again. Is there any hope?
  25. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Unknown Philosopher: Greetings

    ' .... We live in an age of hyperdemocracy....'

    Correction.

    ' .... We liveD in an ....' before Reaganomics and Thatcherism.
  26. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: K F from Canada writes: 'Parasite? What a way to describe people. And, you own a house... I'd say that was privilege - in fact, your comments drip of privilege CD W.'

    Actually K F, people of privilege are those who are born into wealth and do nothing to earn or grow it. The people whom you are attacking, including me, have worked for what they have. Many of them came up from meager means and still managed to achieve success despite the difficulties faced by those without financial means.; much like I did.

    So K F, they are not privileged, they deserve every thing they have and they have earned the right to be annoyed with those who refuse to work yet demand compensation from the wealthy for no other reason that because the poor are poor and the wealthy are wealthy.

    Here is an idea for these people. Re-evaluate your lives. Make some smart decisions and actually work for what you want.
  27. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Unknown Philosopher:

    ' ... Before you respond with your usual slant read this...'

    No. I do not need to. I just have to walk outside and see for myself.

    In 1983 I went to Moscow on a tour. One of the programmed trips was to 'The Museum of National Achievements'

    I refused to go. Told the guide/handler that the real achievements are seen in the street, not in a museum.

    Keep on burying your head in books and Hollywood. What I see is a panhandler on every corner. That is terra firma not silver screen. No wonder you philosophize. Remember what Democracy did to Socrates?
  28. David Simon from Canada writes: 1/ One reason immigrants make very little money when they come to Canada is because officials in Canadian consulates abroad make it seem like Canada has lots and lots of jobs everywhere. They are Liberals and want immigrants to come and vote Liberal.

    2/ Another reason families make more than single individuals is because single individuals make up the majority of the very poor and no one wants to form a family with the very poor (or in some cases middle income earners).

    3/ Soros has become the Parvus of our age-a man with lots of money who makes a lot of problems with what he gives away.
  29. Imperial K from Toronto, Canada writes: God some of you listen to CFRB 'Angry White Male' radio too much!

    Every system, every where on the planet has pan handlers. We're talking about the working poor, people who do work, but don't have enough money to really support themselves.

    The biggest danger here is the middle class no budging, so prices have gone up but not wages all that much...surprise surprise the economy is ditching.

    It's not the wealthy who keep it ticking along, it's 20 million people buying milk and bread every day.
  30. Craig Scott from Republic of Newfoundland, Canada writes: I would suspect that when Immigrant first started coming to this country they were skilled workers and now their kids are following in their footsteps and are also skilled. These are the people that are in the middle class.

    Then we have the immigrants we have been getting for the past 25 years.......the poor, uneducated refugee type of immigrant that come here and have absolutly no skills therefore adding to the welfare rolls and increasing the number of poor.

    Earnings and the state of society is a reflection of the people we let come to this country.
  31. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: Bubbles McBubbles from Trawna, Canada writes: 'Poor privileged CD W being harrassed by 'cup parasites'. Young beggars blocking his car on Spadina. Outrageous! How dare they! So poor baby makes a call to the minister. Just be thankful those cup parasites don't haul you out of your fancy car and string you up by your intestines. If you create enough of them they just might do that one day. :)'

    This is a typical socialist mentality. Don't work for what you want, just demand it from others. Then when you don't get it, resort to threats and violence.
  32. Dwide Schrude from Canada writes: As a person who works in a place where I see immigrants pretty much the day after they arrive here I can say this:

    1) A majority of immigrants who come here cannot speak a single word of English. They are sponsored by family and are here because no matter how poor they are here, it's better than where they came from. (go Canada!)

    2) Some immigrants come over and begin immediately to learn the language and to become literate in English. Those that do and are driven, succeed, those that don't will be poor. There are limitless oppotunities in Canada, but they are just that, opportunities, they are not freebies or handouts, nor should they be. My father came here at the age of ten and learned the language, he learned a skilled trade and did very well for himself. He is by no means rich but I would say my family is the Canadian dream.

    It's a cycle, either perpetuate it or break it, it's your choice. Anyone who comes here and expects to become wealthy without learning English is a fool or has been lied to.
  33. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: Cooler Head from West of TO, Canada writes: 'Someone tell me exactly what George Soros or Stephen Schwartzman do to earn their $2 billion plus last year.'

    They take risks that most other people don't. They provide employment. They work pretty much 24/7, not 9to5.
  34. Radcliffe Robinson from Toronto, Canada writes: It is good to know that the economy has grown over the past 25 years. But we could do even much better if we get more people involved. One U of T economic professor once estimated the economy was losing about $39 billion per year as a result of the skilled immigrant which are not being utulized. The economy is only losing when we shut out these talents. And immigrants are not taking away jobs of Canadians. The Canadian economy is growing faster than the population. Without immigrants, the pupulation would actually decline. It not NOT true that most immigrants are not educated. The figures revealed are that 62 % of them (self sponsorship) have university degrees - a lot higher than the 11% of regular Canadians. And as for English. Immigrants know that we use the verb IS after none, any, either, everybody, nobody etc. All over the media we hear none of them ARE, Either ARE, No one ARE...Come on, this is not standard english. And 'those ones' is not standard english too... There are many cases of immigrants going back to Canadian universities and still not getting the jobs they are qualified for. Even when they get work, it's casual and low paying. Who is really an immigrant? The first nations folkes would say all of us are immigrants as we 'stole their land'.
  35. Dwide Schrude from Canada writes: One more thing, the simple fact is that most people born here who make poor choices are never explained the ramifications of those poor choices.

    When a high schooler skips class to smoke weed, he or she have no idea that what seems like a trivial decision then will have implications for the rest of their lives. If somebody told a kid on their first day of high school 'don't mess the next four years up, because they will largely determine your level of success and wealth for the rest of your lives' maybe kids would better understand that they aren't just there to have fun. Nobody mentions that to them unless they have good parents, if they don't they fall through the cracks and end up asking for change under the Gardiner Expressway.
  36. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes: 'We need to abandon Democracy, and seek a better system.'

    What did you have in mind? As the old saying goes; 'Don't come to me with a problem, come to me with a solution.'
  37. Friendly Anglo from Ottawa, Canada writes: There are lots of jobs out there. Granted, they are minimum wage, but we all have to start somewhere. That is the point though. We all have to start.
    I know mental illness is an issue with some of the homeless and probably a lot of them had crappy childhoods. (me too, by the way). A lot of kids prefer to live outside their homes, because there are rules at home and they don't want the rules, so they leave. Encouraging begging isn't going to help. Most could get a job if they wanted, but they don't want to. Rules again. People work the 'system' and leave less for the people who really need it. What ever happened to workfare by the way. I always thought that was a good idea.
  38. Blaque Jacque Shallaque from Canada writes: All this uncontrolled immigration is simply creating future social problems.

    We need to slow it and reconsider what Canada really needs.

    Two obvious sources of trouble are the easily duped and manipulated refugee system which brings people here who little or no prospect of becoming successful Canadians, and the family unification system which simply brings in too many elderly parents and has been widely abused in other ways too.

    I'm glad the Harper gvt is at least looking at the 'sacred cow' of immigration, but I fear they will be doing much too little, far too late.
  39. guy tozer from Saskatoon, Canada writes: Immigrants are doing poorly!. Look at the cranberry and farming fiasco in B.C. . Immigrant run companies and 'farms', exploiting their countrymen. Where is the immigration department to follow up on their new 'Canadians'??
  40. Paul Collins from Canada writes: This story should not be such a shock. Everyone in their 20's, 30's, or even 40's, know at least one person who who has slipped through the cracks and don't even register on the census radar. The longer we ignore this, the worse it will get. Look at the land prices out there. In the US, land prices have collasped. The US has a population of 250 million and the land is cheaper. We in Canada, have a population of 30 million and it is more expensive. Why is our real estate market so out of sync with the US prices? The Canadian land prices are inflated. That is just one example of what is wrong. I feel the babyboom generation started out with noble principles but have since been degenerated. The babyboom generation is the most greediest, selfish generation in recent history. They monopolize the land, the resources, and the monetary system and they treat the next generation like it is a security threat. If they cry about not having a pension when they retire, let them all eat dog food.
    Mystery of Everyman's Way
  41. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Radcliffe Robinson: Greetings

    ' ... It is good to know that the economy has grown over the past 25 years...'

    Really? I have seen nothing but real decline since 35 years, that will likely continue unless we change.

    When I landed in 1968 it was possible for a young engineer a few years out of school with a young wife and two little kids to afford a two-car garage house and stay-home wife and expect his kids to attend university one day.

    Today, if the engineer and his partner in 30s are not both working, they can not afford to buy a house. The children can wait until the couple is in late 30s, if at all.

    Some growth. Economists call it inflation.

    The real issue of existence is survival, growth, and evolution. Canada is failing miserably. To rectify it imports people showing them the rose garden, who in turn under-achieve.

    The problem - Democracy, the Demos, the 5-10% monied males who rule over women, slaves, plebs, and helots.
  42. Ed Andrews from Edmonton, Canada writes: Regarding the 'highly educated' immigrants (next article down in this series) when I was in university, a chap who had taken his bachelors degree in Egypt came to take his masters degree in engineereing. Well, they dropped him back, not to forth year, but to third year engineering; he was in some of my classes, and even then he was struggling.
  43. W W from Canada writes: The most difficult concept to grasp for many new immigrants is that the jobs in Canada are competitive. If you skills are good but someone has skills set that simply match better what is required he will get the job. In most countries where the immigrants are coming from the jobs are not so competitive, due to the low pay.

    The situation with jobs in Canada is not perfect but it is much better than in most Western European countries. Getting a good paying job in Europe is almost impossible, especially for an immigrant, as most of the jobs are getting outsourced to the Eastern Europe. We are lucky so far because of our geographical location, and it looks like the high fuel prices are protecting us.
  44. Fake Name from Canada writes: ' Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:
    We need to abandon Democracy, and seek a better system.
    Democracy is the rule of the Demos, the 5-10% monied males who rule over women, slaves, plebs, and helots.......
    Now India, China, et al turning middle class and refusing to slave. In the West Disappearing middle class, declining haves, and sprouting have-nots.'

    Could you please clarify how the Dalits (untouchables) in India, or the average factory workers in China working for pennies a day, are not a virtual slaves? Furthermore, arguing that anyone in canada is disenfranchised from the democratic process BECAUSE THEY'RE TOO LAZY TO VOTE is ridiculous.
  45. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Fake Name: Greetings

    ' ... Could you please clarify how the Dalits (untouchables) in India, or the average factory workers in China working for pennies a day, are not a virtual slaves? ...'

    They indeed are. You are right.

    My point was that with a larger % of middle class in India that is growing, India will become more middle class Democracy maybe in 100 years, while Canada will deteriorate from a middle class Democracy of the recent past to an Athenian Democracy as it has been doing for the last 20 years since Mulroney.
  46. J.C. Davies from Canada writes:
    'The US has a population of 250 million and the land is cheaper. We in Canada, have a population of 30 million and it is more expensive. Why is our real estate market so out of sync with the US prices? The Canadian land prices are inflated. That is just one example of what is wrong.'

    Land is expensive in Canada because it is in effect rationed by way of planning and development requirements. The longer it takes to develop raw land the more expensive that land becomes. In the GTA takes about 10 years for land to be developed which accounts for the high prices (same is true for southern California). With the 'green belt' legislation the supply of developable land has further been reduced with higher prices to be the end result.
  47. Andrew Toth from Oliver, BC, Canada writes: I really don't understand how Ontario went from 'have' to 'have not', virtually overnight. What has happened? Was it a provincial economy subsidized to such a point as to when the dollar rose in value, the bottom fell out? Beyond belief, in some respects.
  48. J L from Toronto, Canada writes: Maybe immigrants in previous years had a stronger work ethic?
  49. Sue W from Canada writes: More than 600,000 Canadians earned $100,000 or more in 2005. And in 2007 over 42,000 provincial public servants in Ontario earned over $100,000. It begs the question as to how many other provincial & federal public servants, plus contractors, across Canada belong to the $100,000 pool and are then directly contributing to the widening earnings gap between the rich and poor? If income disparity is truly a problem, then this would be the best place to start correcting it.

    If our government really wants to increase the amount of income earned for immigrants back to 1980 levels they could start by cleaning up their haphazard immigration methods and increasing the number of immigrants who have actual marketable skills required and in demand by employers into Canada, not those in demand in the immigrants home country. The problem is then compounded when immigrants with no-or-low skills who bring in family members with equally questionable skills under CIC’s family reunification program. Not only is this not helpful to Canada, it's questionable as to whether immigrants and their families might have been better off, or preferred to have stayed in their home country.
  50. CD W from Canada writes: Well for all of the socialists out there, I grew in Downsview in the 1960's in poverty. I acquired a moderate education, and took a few risks, which seemed to have panned out. When I called the Minister, he was on the CBC Toronto noon show saying that he had solved the yoot truancy issue. He had not, and one of his charges was demanding money, instead of demanding an education. So all I have done is what all homeowners do, we pay off the mortgage and save a few bucks. This makes me rich? No it makes me normal. I do know the difference between those that cannot work versus those who wont work, even if you held a gun to their heads. It is said,'In Canada if you work, you eat, if you work hard, you eat well'.

    In Toronto when they divided the homeless budget into the number of homeless, it came out to 32,000 dollars per bum. This is why we laugh at the socialist trollops of Toronto, build it and they will come and do nothing!
  51. Andre Carrel from Salmo, Canada writes: Fake Name from Canada writes: 'arguing that anyone in canada is disenfranchised from the democratic process BECAUSE THEY'RE TOO LAZY TO VOTE is ridiculous.'

    Yes it is ridiculous, but that does not mean that many in this country are disenfranchised. And voting under the present rules won't change that. So why bother.
    The reason many Canadians are disenfranchised from the democratic process is our first-past-the-post electoral system which is more of a horse race than a democratic election. The democratic ethos is that people - all the people not merely the ones who cross the finish line first - govern themselves. As long as we cheer 30 some percent of the vote as representing a majority of Canadians with a right to 100 percent of the power to govern, and as long as governments use the archaic convention of the confidence vote to turn the citizens' right to vote into a threat with which to intimidate opposing views, many citizens will continue to be disenfranchised and thus be reduced to the status of non-citizen.
  52. Michael Tripper from Vancouver looking for full time career work, Canada writes: let's see I was born here, have done things of merit yet I am what one would call pre-homeless looking for work.

    Merit is bogus - there is only a go along to get along mediocrity in Canada.

    www.michaeltripper.com
  53. P Martin from St. John's, Canada writes: A good number of people in Canada making more than 100K are from the government - at both levels. It would not surprise me if they were the majority. Government is the main reason for the discrepancy between the wealthy and the poor in Canada. And the government has continued to follow the US more and more in this way.
  54. Alonso Garnet from Canada writes: The gap between those willing to get up at 6 am to be at work at 8 am and are willing to work a 40 hour work week is widening with those who don't want to get up or work. We must do something about this.
  55. Imperial K from Toronto, Canada writes: Well not, the min wage jobs are not starting jobs...they are just cheap people's solution to buying a 57th Porche for their son and daughter.

    I mean by all means go ahead, with global prices rising and people not making more, or worse...less. The rich will get hit to. The system is ripe for collapse, not enough money, and prices too high.

    I would even say depression is coming. Too much has been taken by too few, and they didn't get rich by spending it...so don't think it'll filter down anytime soon!

    They just sit on their dragon horde until doomsday.
  56. Corbin Elliott from Toronto, Canada writes: This may be a silly question but I'll risk the embarrassment...

    'Employment earnings account for four-fifths of income, though that's a smaller proportion from a quarter century ago, when earnings accounted for almost $84.'

    Is that supposed to read: 84% or am I missing something here?
  57. J L from Toronto, Canada writes: Here's a simple way to get poor Canadians to earn more:

    Teach the following MANDATORY topics in high school:

    RRSPS, Investing & passive income
    Credit Scores & credit cards
    Everything you need to know about buying a house
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    Why politics affects your everday life & why you must keep gov't in check
  58. Brenton E. from Canada writes: Corporations go off shore to increase share holder profits.
    Governments cater to corporations.
    Distribution of wealth has been strangled by the destruction of unions and
    the corporation and the rich getting most tax advantages.
    Decreases in education investment.

    Gated communities, negative social trends, infostructure decay

    I could go on but why bother, the whole bloody mess needs an enima
  59. roy f from van, Canada writes: I don't imagine they even included the huge fortunes being made in organized crime..
  60. Dwide Schrude from Canada writes: Michael,

    Not to sound sarcastic, but if you're looking for work and are 'pre-homeless', maybe you should stop paying for the red and black globe insider icon for a few months and save the sixteen bucks. I post here for free and just imagine the fancy icon instead. Not the same, but cheaper.

    Just a thought.
  61. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Blaque Jacque Shallaque: Hi

    ' .... All this uncontrolled immigration is simply creating future social problems....'

    If there was no immigration, then how would the locals be able to afford living without working?
  62. Cdn Expat from Washington, D.C., United States writes: First, an observation: That which is described in the article is pretty much the same as what has been going on in the U.S.. So don't look for a uniquely Canadian explanation. Second, two tenative explanations: (1) Skill-biased technical change. What that means is that wages and salaries are rising for those with the right skills and falling for many others. (2) Assortive mating. The article notes that family incomes are rising even as median individual incomes are not. What is going on is that the well educated are marrying each other, leaving behind the rest. It used to be that an educated man might marry his secretary. No more. (No secretaries, for one thing!) Now, the educated one is more likely to be a woman, and she'll do her darndest to marry an educated man, if she can find one. Third, an open question: why are today's immigrants doing so much worse than the last generation's? Would anyone really argue that racism is worse today than it was a generation ago? Preposterous. The work of Don Devoretz and colleagues at RIIM, at Simon Fraser University suggests that the quality of immigrants accepted by Canada has been in decline as the country has emphasized resettling of refugees and family reunification over skills and employability. Whatever the facts, this is a subject that seems worthy of more scrutiny and dispassionate policy making.
  63. Robert Tomas from Toronto, Canada writes: Just when we think that we live in a cosmopolitan, tolerant and reasonable country, one needs only to read this blog to see the true Canadian colours - and they ain't Maple Leaf and Tim Hortons.
    Prejudice, lack of empathy, blatant racism and Not In My Backyard - shame on you, fellow Canadians. Take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror. Or better yet, go to your room and think about your behaviour. Makes me want to sterilize my Canadian passport. Shame.
  64. Maurice Aubry from Canada writes: Is this really a surprise? Britain published the ethnicity and welfare statistics a few months ago. (They seemed to have the guts) It turns out that something like more than 80% of immigrants from cultures different from Britain's were requiring social assistance. Meanwhile, less than 5% of those from eastern Europe (Poland) required it. If our immigration policies continue then why complain about it. We are a generous people. Now that these people are in Canada and are having larger families with one wage earner because the wife is not allowed to work, there is very little that can be done. The Liberals like the status quo because this represents their voting base. Of course they want to increase this by voting against the new legislation which might limit family reunification and more Liberal voters.
  65. E. Biggs from Canada writes: Cooler heads The answer to your question is quite simple.

    - smarts, in that they figured out how to make money legally
    - guts, in that they determined to risk their money on their ideas
    - actions, they actually did what they figured out.

    I was in the working poor in the retail business many years ago until I also sat down and did some serious thinking about what I was going to do about it.

    I quit my job, left friends and family and moved across the country I had one suitcase, a portable radio a few clothes and $45 in my pocket (that was money in those days). I turned down a couple of jobs until I was successful in the right job. When I came here I knew nobody in the entire Province, but I knew it was the only way for me.

    Worked hard, saved and investied, got married bought a house (small one), bought a car (cheap one). I worked for 35 years, made some dollars in the stock market and real estate and retired.

    I am what some people call wealthy and spent my winters in the States playing golf and enjoying life.

    I strongly believe it can also be done today and am watching some immigrants and others doing it, similar to what I did.
  66. brokeback mountain from toronto, Canada writes: well, explain to me then why the beggars on the street is asking for change to buy Starbucks coffee instead of real food?
    Is working hard so one can get paid more a sin now?
  67. Jeremy Fewster from Montreal, Canada writes: I think free trade has hurt working class families in both Canada and the US. The ease with which capital and factories can relocate has really hurt provinces like Ont. and QC - 20-30 years ago unionized factory work that paid a livable wage was available - so many of those jobs have been moved, and have been replaced by minimum wage service industry jobs (wall-mart, the gap, mail-room workers etc) that it's not surprising to see stories like this in the G&M. These trade agreements (or investor rights agreements) have seriously eroded the gains made by our forefathers, who struggled for the right to earn a decent wage. Anyone who works 8 hours a day should be able to afford to provide for themselves and their families - this is becoming less and less common.
  68. Paul Collins from Canada writes: This story should not be such a shock. Everyone in their 20's, 30's, or even 40's, know at least one person who who has slipped through the cracks and don't even register on the census radar. The longer we ignore this, the worse it will get. Look at the land prices out there. In the US, land prices have collasped. The US has a population of 250 million and the land is cheaper. We in Canada, have a population of 30 million and it is more expensive. Why is our real estate market so out of sync with the US prices? The Canadian land prices are inflated. That is just one example of what is wrong. I feel the babyboom generation started out with noble principles but have since been degenerated. The babyboom generation is the most greediest, selfish generation in recent history. They monopolize the land, the resources, and the monetary system and they treat the next generation like it is a security threat. If they cry about not having a pension when they retire, let them all eat dog food.
    http://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Everymans-Way-Paul-Collins/dp/1605301183/ref=pdbbssr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209653032&sr=1-1
  69. Imperial K from Toronto, Canada writes: J L from Toronto, well yes that's fine....but my investments I was told to make are moving at a snails pace. ANother wondeful lie from the banks.

    Oh and don't be surprised if payout time for all thos RRSP's that were so popular isn't quite what they promised 30 years ago. Prediction, something will hit all those investments too, and you'll get something, but NOTHING like you thought.

    I would suggest the removal of credit card industry from many people's lives. It serves no purpose and honestly, who gets mugged anymore? I use cash for everything, untraceable and always usable by anyone.

    Also, we lie to people, push them that they must live a good life no matter what. And when that college/university degree doesn't deliver anything, they still want to feel part of the system...and borrow.

    Like late night burger advertisement, it's all to make someone rich, and you fat.

    Truthfully, if you want to do better? Teach the poor/anyone to be cold heartless and bloodthirsty. Care for nothing and no one, and I guarantee you will live a better life. Step over, not around others, and crush anyone that opposes you. And again I guarantee you will better off...if not rich!

    Now I'm not rich, and I don't do the above, but yes...if you do the above, and throw any morals and ethics away...you can be rich too.

    This does not mean all rich are like that, not at all. But it does make it easier. This world does not reward good, evil is the fast track to wealth.
  70. K W from Canada writes: I can't believe few of the posters here are racists and discriminatory against immigrants. Without immigrants, who is going to work at the Tim Hortons and other low paying jobs that no other Canadians like yourself want?
    I have seen a lot of Canadians on welfare and what do think about them?
  71. Michael Tripper from Canada writes: Jeremy Fewster from Montreal, Canada writes
    correct my friend correct

    looking for work

    www.michaeltripper.com

    now
  72. bob london from Canada writes: Picture should be of your 'fat' boomer government worker on the left and with graduates, small business owners, and bluecoller people on the right
  73. Brenton E. from Canada writes: I am amazed and more than a little ashamed, an article on social/economical conditions becomes a platform to beat the snot out of new Canadians.
  74. Rick C from Canada writes: Imagine that. In a specialized society like Canada new immigrants with lower education levels don't do as well.

    Who cares? They are still better off than where they came from and in general their kids do well.

    Prosperity is not given to you; it's earned and most often dictated by the choices and sacrifices you make.
  75. Jeremy Fewster from Montreal, Canada writes: brokeback mountain: Shouldn't we distinguish between beggars and those who work (sometimes more than 1 job) but who still cannot make ends meet? There are so many socially necessary jobs out there that are terribly paid - doesn't somebody need to do them, without the added humiliation of condecending attitudes hurled down from olympian heights of our 'monied' classes? I admit, some people are lazy - but I personally know children of rich families who piss away their education, spend idle years abroad, only to finally sink comfortably into some well paid position at Daddy's office - Sloth knows no class boundaries. Cheers
  76. Dwide Schrude from Canada writes: The other thing that people are failing to realize is that a family on welfare living six to a tiny 2 bedroom apartment today have a better quality of living than a fairly affluent family did in the fifties. They have heating, they have better food quality and availability, they have better social support, they have better health care and it's more available, they have better education, they have television, a microwave, even a car.

    It's not that poor people in Canada live horrible lives, it's just a lot different from the rich. It's still damned good, we just can't see the forrest for the trees anymore unless we're driving a BMW and parking it in front a 5000 square foot home.
  77. jay bow from ny, United States writes: this is similiar in all countries. most immigrants see the long term trade off...then give their kids a great opportunity...the one they never seem to have wherever they are from. its a great story....immigrant parents working 2/3 jobs to give their kids an opportunity...lots have capitalized on this opportunity.
    its unfortunate the laziness some westerners born in these countries asking for handouts - given all the opportunity and wasting it
  78. Phil King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Andre Carrel from Salmo: Here here.

    As long as we maintain a system that can cast the votes of millions to the wind giving them no representation in the house of commons then we don't have a democracy, but a representative dictatorship.

    In fact it has become clear that the first past the post system encourages regional parties far more than national ones, which is ironic.

    The BLOC received 1.5 million votes last election and won 51 seats.
    The NDP received 2.6 million votes and won a mere 29 seats.
    The Greens received nearly 700 thousand votes and has not one seat.

    Combined they have nearly 5 million votes and 80 seats.

    Meanwhile the government of Canada's 5.3 million votes has rewarded it 124 seats and the LPC's 4.5 million votes rewarded it 103 seats.

    Frankly I think proportional representation is past due.
  79. Joe Technicality from Hamilton, Canada writes: I hope everybody knows how darn difficult it is for a new immigrant to get a work permit in this country. As a Canadian employer, I'm extremely unimpressed with the narrow scope of 'eligible positions' the government considers to be a 'real job'.

    I work for a very large, very reputable, very stable, publicly traded national firm which pays people on a fee for service structure. Given that it isn't a 'salary' structure, the government precludes our frontline role as an eligible position.

    Smarten up, civil servants. We're not all paid like you, nor do we want to be.
  80. anonymous contributor from Canada writes: i'm amazed that most think this is NOT about you!
    50 yrs. ago - husband worked, earning enough to buy a home, buy a car, pay the bills, raise the kids, pay for their educ. and clothes, etc, etc.

    currently: everyone HAS to work. sometimes one is working two jobs and the family is up to their ears in debt.

    progress...........................?