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Alberta first nation wants duck probe

The Canadian Press

Latest comment posted at 12:23 PM EDT 01/05/08

Northern Alberta aboriginals want Ottawa to hold inquiry on how to protect migratory birds, species at risk ...Read the full article

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  1. Ruth Walker from Edmonton, Canada writes: One carefully guarded secret here in Alberta is the total land area devoted to toxic ponds and other sludge.

    Public attitudes on pollution might well be very different if the magnitude of these problems were apparent.

    Just how big a mess have we made??? And how much is it likely to grow?

    These are just examples of questions Premier Stelmach would do almost anything to avoid answering.

    Reality must take precedence over PR, otherwise it is future generations who will pay the price of our foolishness.
  2. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: Can we also have a public inquiry on how to protect deer, elk and moose from 'shining?'
  3. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    What, precisely, was one to do with a Ford Probe?
  4. Dave Roberts from Toronto, Canada writes: Syncrude screwed up here but how much are these 500 ducks going to cost taxpayers?
  5. Antonio San from Canada writes: Ohh what would be the motives of the First Nations now? Protecting the ducks or getting a cut?
  6. slapdash dapoint from Canada writes: har. har. har. that dry native sense of humour
  7. Alberta Dennis Notso,redneck from Canada writes: You do not need a duck probe. What is needed is a change of management at SCL. Syncrude has run a steller operation since startup. The management(Canadian) and employees worked together as one big family. Syncrude was the first company in canada to employ large numbers of natives. Syncrude research deveoped the bird deterrents and they worked well for 30 years. The problem started when the owners of SCL decided Exxon/Mobile could provide better management and technical services than what they were getting, so they did a deal with Exxon for Management services at $50 millain a year. So in came the new leader and a few of his honchos. They booted all the experienced management and made it clear to the workforce there would be no more communication meetings and the big family crap was a thing of the past, from now on it is my way or the highway. So a lot of experienced employees took the highway to the newer plants next door. The experienced senior management team were gone. So it is no surprise that the bird deterrents were deployed far too late. Talk about a snow storm is straight bull. The pond by the first of april has little or no ice due to the hot water circulation that goes on 24/7 so there would be no reason not to deploy. The SCL Oil Extraction Department that looks after the tailings pond would normally have the deterrents on the pond by the first of april. Now you have a bunch of intimidated employees that now wait to be told what to do. In the past the folks on the ground would have looked after this as a matter of course. Until the new managment smartens up there will be many more problems to come. Based on the poor performance of the plant last winter and the deteriorating safety performance (as compared to previous years), I wonder if the owners think their 50 million annual management fee is going to do the trick with Americans running the show. I have nothing against the Americans, however this group should go home
  8. Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: Alberta Dennis, etc. Thank you for your informative post. Could you explain what the bird deterrents are?

    Also, it would appear that SCL should offer compensation to the First Nations for the destruction of their land and traditional way of life.
  9. A E from Canada writes: Randy D from Canada writes: 'Take a reality pill. It is 500 ducks--a good days shoot during season.
    Business remains a four-letter word in our socialist country and any excuse to punish those who create the jobs and wealth is taken gleefully.
    How much is this gonna cost the taxpayers and shareholders to the delight of those who leech off the system.
    Rules are inplace and should be adhered to, but, really, accidents do happen. We have way bigger issues to deal with than a one-time tragic accident with 500 ducks. '

    Maybe it is about pollution - as opposed to an 'accidental' killing of some ducks... though the idealogical rant is sweet, sadly hurting 'wealth creation' is further down the Left's list of priorities than a clean environment and sustainable development.

    But we'll get there someday!
  10. Dave Roberts from Toronto, Canada writes: 'Also, it would appear that SCL should offer compensation to the First Nations for the destruction of their land and traditional way of life.'

    1. It wasn't on their land
    2. Their traditional way of life was as a hunter-gatherer society - do you honestly think this is possible in the 21st century.
  11. Greg Out West from Canada writes: I felt sorry for the SCL employee on the news last night trying to explain what happened. He reminded me of a worm on the end of a hook.
  12. CD W from Canada writes: How about an inquiry into Chiefs ripping off their reserve populations? Or do we DUCK that inquiry?
  13. J Law from Canada writes: I personaly think we should go after all those people who build houses and building more that a few feet high also. How many birds lose their lives by flying into them? We should sue all the tree huggers for forcing the logging companies to let trees grow into the sky and that hinders birds flights. And what about those airplanes, sue them also and hey those scientists who let those ballons go up . . .

    Where does it end? Where does it end?

    I also think we should sue Ruthie from Edmonton because she hate Ed Stelmach for not allowing her Liberal party to win in Alberta. The shame, the shame!
  14. M Poland from Calgary, Canada writes: Perhaps the energy companies could hire these guys to keep the wildfowl off the tailings ponds.
  15. John Connor from Around Town, Canada writes: Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: it would appear that SCL should offer compensation to the First Nations for the destruction of their land and traditional way of life.

    Why? They get enough from the rest of us now. If they're so concerned about the fowl treatment, they can pay for it with some of the billions we already send. Not a probable outcome in any case.
  16. Kathleen Degelder from WashingtonUSA, Canada writes: The 'Deseronto' protest not supported by the 'Tyedinaga Mohawk Council.'---Also Dr. Patrick Moore and chlorine. Chlorine was lobbied by the eco's to ban. How does one ban an element?
  17. DOWN TRODDEN from Calgary, Canada writes: wow, a human dies on the weekend in an industrial accident up there and society is concerned over birds. the fact that it snowed 3 feet the weekend before up there and hampered efforts to 'deploy' propane cannons to ward off any birds to these ponds is enough. th fact that the birds chose to land there as opposed to nearby 'clean' water bodies is also alarming, might be that they got caught in cold weather and these ponds are typically warm that attracted them. not to deflect any blame from syncrude, but sometimes the weather does hamper efforts to do the right thing and in this case it did. I am ashamend that we covet birds more than human beings in our society.
  18. Greg Out West from Canada writes: J M from Realityville, Canada writes: Considering the Tar Sands take up a space bigger than PEI with these highly toxic tailings pond timebombs, 500 ducks is probably a slow day if you could monitor the entire area. Given that Albertans shoots over 7,000,000 wildfowl a year as 'sport', there are bigger issues here. The day will come when these ponds burst and poison hundreds of thousands of people. At least it will be quick. The aboriginal population has been poisioned by this sludge each and every day for decades.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    J M, 7,000,000 sounds a little high. At that level every single Albertan, man, women and child would all have to be hunters and bag 2 or 3 per year. I don't know the number but your's sounds high. If nothing else it will further re-enforce to the rest of the country that we are in deed a bunch of red necks.
  19. max from edmonton from Canada writes: J M from Realityville, Canada writes: Considering the Tar Sands take up a space bigger than PEI with these highly toxic tailings pond timebombs, 500 ducks is probably a slow day if you could monitor the entire area. Given that Albertans shoots over 7,000,000 wildfowl a year as 'sport', there are bigger issues here. The day will come when these ponds burst and poison hundreds of thousands of people. At least it will be quick. The aboriginal population has been poisioned by this sludge each and every day for decades.
    *****************************************************
    JM: this post is so full of inaccuracies it seems as if you are intentionally trying to decieve.

    I will play for a moment. Who are the hundreds of thousands that will be poisoned if the tailing ponds 'burst'?

    Lastly, the first nations people have known for centuries that the river surrounding the entire Fort Mac area is contaminated by bitumen that seeps into EVERYTHING.
  20. Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: Dave Roberts comments: 'Their traditional way of life was as a hunter-gatherer society - do you honestly think this is possible in the 21st century?'

    I think there are many ways of living on the earth, and we can hardly lay claim to knowing the best way. A man who provides for his family through hunting, as was done by his ancestors over millennia, is just as valuable to his community as the man at a desk, though in the economist's jargon he's not 'gainfully employed'. Our capitalist model should not be imposed everywhere.

    I agree... a subsistence economy is no longer feasible, but I hope hunting and fishing will remain part of the North, part of a way of life close to the land. (Don't ask me which end of a rifle is the front end.)
  21. Alonso Garnet from Canada writes: Just how 'clean' is the First Nation reserve where these people reside? How many abandoned and stray dogs are around the reserve? Do they give the game they want to harvest a fair chance or do they use spot lights, night hunting and ATV's (not to mention modern rifles, scopes, etc).
  22. Kathleen Degelder from WashingtonUSA, Canada writes: Down Trodden: Good post. Media agenda and biasm? cui bono?
  23. max from edmonton from Canada writes: Good Post Gail C.

    In fact a subsistance life can still be led much as it has for centuries. There are VAST areas of Canada with little or no population and abundant resources.

    I think the issue a lot of Non natives have is that Modern Native hunters use modern technologies to hunt and therefore are capable of 'harvesting' far more than they actually need.
  24. BC Refugee in AB from Canada writes: Gail, Bird deterrants are a combination of things designed to keep the birds from landing on the ponds. They can be 'scarecrows' but the big thing is the air cannons that fire every few minutes. Basically they make a loud popping noise like someone bursting a balloon, which scares the birds off. JM,a nice fear mongering, how much is Greanpeace paying you to post on here? The Oil Sands is the size of PEI, the present tailings ponds are much smaller....the common comparison used is that the landmass disturbed by oil sands activity since it's inception in the 1960's is less than the prime farmland consumed by the urban sprawl of TO in the same time period. Only difference is they will reclaim the ponds at some time, not sure when we'll get around to cleaning up the envio disaster caused by urban sprawl. As for your comments about sport hunting, while I'n not personally a hunter, just not my cup of tea, this is not sport hunting, this is substinance hunting for food. Anybody who objects to hunting but has no problems going down to the Safeway to buy chicken breasts is a hypocrite in my books. As for your comments about the tailings ponds bursting and killing hundreds of thousands of people???? What a load, don't even get me started. Do we need to pressure the oil sands to do more on the enviro front, darn right, but ranting and raving like yours does nothing but make the general public dismiss the valid concerns expressed by others about the industry.
  25. Trent S from Canada writes: Funny in this case the Alberta Environment Minister was on this from the word go. I would have thought he was in a token position, but you know i think he actually cares.
  26. Joe Calgarian from Calgary, Canada writes: Maybe we can also have an inquiry into rampant poaching on Indian reserves - you know, natives, the shining defenders of the environment.
  27. Wild Bill from Canada writes: My livelihood is being threatened by constantly paying for these stupid inquiries.
  28. J S from Toronto, Canada writes: mmmm... toxic tar ponds to drink in the future... ah, but Oilberta will have lots of money to buy water once all thiers is all turned toxic...
  29. Wandering Willy from Victoria, Canada writes: When are they gonna open the hunt on Canadian Geese......bet those things taste good!
  30. BC Refugee in AB from Canada writes: People, please lay off the sterotyping first nations comments.....
  31. Joe Calgarian from Calgary, Canada writes: J S, you must be so bitter having to live in that sh*thole of a city of yours.....hows the smog alerts today? Had to duck from any drive bys lately? How does it feel knowing you'll soon be living in a have-not province?
  32. Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: Joe Calgarian comments: 'Maybe we can also have an inquiry into rampant poaching on Indian reserves-'

    Would you explain? Under the treaty I have before me, James Bay Treaty No. 9, the Ojibway and Cree nations ceded 90,000 square miles of land in Northern Ontario in return for 'the right to pursue their usual vocations of hunting, trapping and fishing throughout the tract surrendered...'

    This means, the right to hunt year-round on Crown land, so how could the Aboriginal people be poaching? By the way, a Native man from this very area says the community is always being harrassed by wildlife officers, and the fish and game are unfit to eat, from industry contamination of the land and rivers.

  33. Greg Out West from Canada writes: J S from Toronto, Canada writes: mmmm... toxic tar ponds to drink in the future... ah, but Oilberta will have lots of money to buy water once all thiers is all turned toxic...
    ----------------------------------------------------
    JS, nice to see you're concerned but don't worry as we get fresh water from the mountains every year. How's that lake Ontario water working for you, sorry forgot you can't even swin in it as it's so poluted.

    Good work
  34. Alberta Dennis Notso,redneck from Canada writes: Gail C. The main bird deterrents are propane fired cannon that go off on a set frequency. These devices are floating on the pond and are anchored so they stay put. They are very effective and because for generations the sounds of guns scare the birds, they do not land on the water. As far as compensation, the natives are doing very well on the oil sands. SCL alone has 35 million dollar annual contracts with native companies for services. They also employ several hundred at top dollar. The Chief of the Chipiwan Band at Fort Chipiwan will have a gripe because he does not get much if anything because of his age. Too old to work. However the Gov,t settled a land claim with the Cree band there and they got $23 millon, plus all the people that want to can work at the plants. There is very little trapping, like just about zero and hardly zero natives live off the land. It would make no difference to the natives if there were no ducks whatsoever. The present management at SCL are newcomers and way over their heads. The way I see it either management has the employees on side 100% or through poor management practices 100% against. I am afraid it is the latter. I suspect a number of SCL employees are having a chuckle over this. It is called payback time.
  35. Walker fromtheevilempireofAB from Calgary, Canada writes: Alberta Dennis : Bang on!

    Anyway it is only 500 ducks and it was an accident - not a daily occurence, the duck population will not be effected.

    As for the destroying the First Nations way of life I find it hard to believe, they haven't hunted for sustainence in a long time. The more they claim oil companies are ruining their lives the bigger the cheque in the mail from those companies. Period.

    I loved the comment about the urban sprawl, it's ironic that all these people who are so concerned with the environment have no problem with rapidly expanding cities, buying houses in the suburbs, and driving their kids to soccer practive in a Tahoe. Gimme a break.
  36. Bill Harrison from Canada writes: First Nations claim they are the conservers of nature, yet they hunt out of season and they fish out of season. All this in the name of traditional hunting and fishing rights. In British Columbia, they are allowed to fish for salmon for food and ceremonial activities while other fishermen have to leave their boats tied up. However, it is very easy to buy this food and ceremonial salmon near or on most reserves. So much for being conservers. A nearby golf course used to have deer on it, but they were pit-lamped by a local First Nations group, who were eventually charged by the wildlife authorities. The judge sent them home with nary a slap on the wrist!
  37. Dave Roberts from Toronto, Canada writes: Gail C writes: 'This means, the right to hunt year-round on Crown land, so how could the Aboriginal people be poaching?'

    You failed to qualify that statement. Read Regina v Wesley, 1975.
  38. Larry Murphy from Canada writes: Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Look, you are either employed by some Native association or married to a chief, as you are on here constantly defending the Natives regardless of how insane the story.

    How about this title: Alberta Ducks Want First Nations Probe. It would make about as much sense.
    This is nothing more than typical Native muck-raking and it's getting pretty damn tiring to see each week.
  39. sean wood from vancouver, Canada writes: Every problem in Canada can solved with a good probe. It's time once again for some parliamentary witch hunters to don their inquisitors hoods and let loose a torrent of allegations that will headline for days. Oil executives and anyone remotely connected to them must be subpoenaed and subjected to a relentless grilling filled with innuendo. At the end of this process, careers will be ruined, Harper will somehow be implicated, the oil sands will be closed and five hundred martyred ducks will be avenged. As an added bonus, comrade Layton will get in front of a camera, attack the oil companys and at the same time, bemoan the high price of gas affecting that generic family sitting around the kitchen table.
  40. Harbinger from Out West from Prince George, Canada writes: We all know where probes go.
  41. Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: Joe Calgarian: Honestly, I know very little, but I learn from everyone, especially my critics. I'm sorry your Native experiences have been negative.

    Students from a reserve attended my highschool and we all respected them. They were shy and kind. One of the girls was our Beauty Queen one year - utterly gorgeous, and I think of her still. I honestly never heard a racist remark, but this was back in a gentler age. (I haven't always lived in TO.) As well, there is a reserve close to our cottage, with neat houses and children who wave at us.

    I find it's all about mutual respect. No Native person has ever insulted me, unlike so many non-Natives on these threads. (And I don't have a rhinoceros hide.)

    Couldn't we all be a little nicer and make our country a better place?
  42. atlantica party from Canada writes:

    Micheal Sharp:

    Your comment on your run-in with aliens [ which I believe has been deleted ] has helped to lighten my day. LOL

    Still laughing. Keep up the good work.
  43. Vincent Clement from Windsor, Canada writes: Big deal. Hundreds of ducks and geese wander the University of Waterloo campus leaving behind their crap and killing off Columbia Lake. And each year the duck and goose population grows.
  44. Ineeda Vacation from Red Deer, Canada writes: There is a trend in Canada that is really disturbing. Bringing in American Management Consulting teams by business and government to make us more 'efficient'. They are ruthless, careless, arogant cowboys that cost us a fortune. I work in a government funded college that brought in such a group to run the IT department. Costing 1 million a year for a couple of people. Like I say, ruthless and careless. What a huge waste of money.

    Be ware of this. If it happens in your company or if you are a government and they bring in this type of management team, start looking for work elsewhere. They do not have your best interests in mind.
  45. Alberta Dennis Notso,redneck from Canada writes: There are natives that jump on every bandwagon that presents itself and so one must expect this will always happen. However give some credit to the natives that have left their poverty stricken reserves and fully integrated with our society. They live in modern homes that are neat and clean, raise their kids just like we all do or at least aspire to. There are hundreds in this category at Fort McMurray, thanks to years of native development by companies like Syncrude. Unfortunately a lot of reserves are run by self serving chiefs and their families and that is what we mostly hear about. So believe it or not there are a lot of honest, hard working natives out there.
  46. michael morris from Prescott, Canada writes: Nice to see all the experts, with NO FACTS, solving difficult problems with no logic, but with emotion. How about, 1) Special tax on gas within Greater Toronto to save environment in Fort Mac - have lived in both places and if anyone has ruined the environment and continues to ruin it it is Greater Toronto. How many thousands of acres of farm land under pavement so Toronto hypocrites can live in 3000 sq. ft. homes and drive 4-wheel drives that never leave pavement, while they tell the rest of Canada to live in poverty because we should not cut trees, or fish or do anything that might endanger our environment in case some Toronto hypoctite wants to come and tell use how to live. Toronto, the city that cannot take care of its own garbage, has to send it to Michigan, would like to send it to Northern Ontario, Eastern Ontario anywhere that they can to pollute someone else's backyard. I could go on and on but why bother- Toronto the hypocritical, small minded, self centered, a$$hole of Canada.
  47. martha stewart from Canada writes: From: The Washington Post, December 24, 2003.

    LOS ANGELES -- The freezers at the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Department in the Sacramento Valley are overflowing with the decapitated and mangled bodies of golden eagles, kestrels and red-tailed hawks, victims of the whirling blades of wind turbines... as many as 44,000 birds have been killed over the past two decades by these towering machines in the Altamont Pass, east of San Francisco.

    Although [they]... make Alameda County less dependent on fossil fuel, they are also the end of the line for many predatory birds whose annual migration route includes the pass. The area is also home to the largest resident population of golden eagles in the lower 48 states. Concentrating on their prey on the ground, the birds fly into the blur of the windmill blades.

    [This has]... led some environmental groups... to oppose permits for the Altamont site... an average of 50 golden eagles are killed each year'
  48. Scott MacDonald from Canada writes: Just over 1.5 million ducks are shot in all of Canada each year (Source: Canadian Wildlife Service). While 500 doesn't sound like a big deal, that's 250 mature ducks -- potential pairs meaning up to 3000 less ducks heading south in the fall.

    Most ducks (75% or more) shot in fall are birds that were just hatched the previous spring and they have about an 80% mortality rate without hunting so killing the birds in the fall doesn't ultimately have a big effect on bird numbers. Killing them in the spring definitely does and the 500 here and the thousands that we never hear about in other toxic ponds does add up to real loss of biotic potential for the ducks.
  49. James P from Spruce Grove, Canada writes: michael morris from Prescott, Canada writes: How many thousands of acres of farm land under pavement so Toronto hypocrites can live in 3000 sq. ft. homes and drive 4-wheel drives that never leave pavement, while they tell the rest of Canada to live in poverty because we should not cut trees, or fish or do anything that might endanger our environment in case some Toronto hypoctite wants to come and tell use how to live.
    ------------------
    How about Inco and their tailing ponds? Or all the other tailing ponds in Ontario created by mining? The acid rain that is killing off thousands of enitre lakes. Pollution in the biggest lakes in the world that make the fish unedible. Steel, gold, copper, cars, paint, concrete all great clean products but oil, now there is something to hate. They don't seem to concerned about their own mess because well, the news outlets centred there don't give a dam anymore, they have Alberta to bash and thats much more fun.
  50. Free The West from Free the West, BC, Canada writes: Yeah right!! I happen to like ducks ... but ...

    To the Natives the ducks are just a chance at more funding.

    To the lefties, the ducks are just a chance to take shots at the oil industry.
  51. martha stewart from Canada writes: How many migrating songbirds were killed last night slamming into Toronto office towers?

    It happens every night during spring migration. Could be greatly reduced by turning off lights which would also save energy.

    The FLAP program there helps save some survivors that are found still alive but does not fix the problem entirely.

    Similarly Syncrude has a program to prevent this kind of accident but it didn't work this time. Like FLAP they are trying.

    Its not a perfect world.

    The North American mallard population is estimated at 13 million.

    The mallard is the most common duck. On the other hand, as I just posted again at 3:05, windmill farms kill far more rare birds of prey.
    But because they are supposedly 'green' no one seems to care.

    P.S. Scott MacDonald - Get your point but your numbers are exaggerated. You suggest 2500 surviving (to flight) young from 250 pairs of mallards. No way. But it does indicate why 500 dead is unfortunate but not a catastrophe.
  52. James P from Spruce Grove, Canada writes: Thing is I like the fact Ontario is creating metals, cars ect. because I can realize we all use those things. If I were to complain about it I'd feel it necessary to take in every metal object I own and get it recycled and go and live in the woods or risk being a hyopcrate like most eco's around here.

    Companies need to be called to action when they do something not right and so I agree this small issue should be resolved. It's the use of propaganda that irritates me, yes that means you Chief!
  53. Antonio San from Canada writes: Kevin Poland, good thinking BUT imagine if while keeping ducks out of the pond one native falls in the sludge? Then it is billions of dollars, UN involvement and Achim Steiner condemning Alberta for generations. Already Gore has said that fighting the decidely unpredictable global warming is akin to fight the nazis during WW2... then it would be 'war of the worlds'!
  54. Will Farnaby from writes: Here's an idea... in order to demonstrate commitment to the 'highest standards of environmental sustainability', we'll turn a healthy chunk of Alberta into a moonscape; no, wait, let's make that a carcinogenic moonscape. Our demonstration consists of 'nudge-nudge, wink-wink, scratch-scratch, ca-ching, thanks for the donations, and a PR roadshow or two.

    But why on edge? Why the nervous twitches? And what is that faint sound in the distance... 'Only when the last tree is cut, when the last river is dammed, and when the last fish has been caught, will we realize that we can't eat money.'
  55. Ned Chiwalski from Oilgary, Canada writes: Come people these are ducks! Not some endangered species but ducks! I agree this was a huge oversight on Sincrude's behalf and they should pay something, but to launch a probe?? Would the natives be as quick to launch the same probe if they had to pay for it thenselves (oops, sorry about that, we (taxpayers) would still be paying for it).

    By the way how many birds are killed monthly down in the wind farm by Pincer Creek?? Lets launch a probe into those big nasty looking wind farms.....
  56. R. M. from Regina, Canada writes: Also an inquiry on night hunting by First Nations/Metis using lights and deemed to be legal, as is hunting any time of the year for food. I believe in inherent traditional rights but the hunting should also be carried out by traditional means.

    These companies are already spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on mitigation and prevention issues.....we do not live in a bubble folks!
  57. Dan Radu from Calgary, Canada writes: *************************************************
    That's right. Everyone knows ducks are much safer landing on their casinos.
  58. Bitumen Queen from Tar Island, Canada writes: With more than 1,000 hrs cruising on these Oil Sand tailings ponds, sampling, observing, setting out devices to keep wildlife off the water, etc etc . This story has gotten out of hand, everyone who may have read about Oil sands has become an expert on Oil sands when most are only Johnny come latelys. Like Mike Hudema he has a problem finding his way around Edmonton not to mention the Oil Sands. We would all be better off to see all of you start to worry about the radioactive leakage from the Gunnar Mines Dyke in Sask. that has been seeping into lake Athabasca upstream of Fort chip for the last 38 years then worry about a few ducks. Syncrude will have to pay their fine & also ensure that the cannons are deployed as required by their EUB approval to extract Bitumen from Oil sands. All corporations producing bitumen from Oil Sands must report any loss of wildlife & or animals into these ponds or on their leases every month, there are always a few.......... Some Bears have almost entered some Control rooms in the past... Otherwise Bitumen flows naturaly into the Athabaska river year round......It accumulates on the sides of your water craft......
  59. Dick Nails from Canada writes: Too bad there weren't first nations hunters surrounding the ponds to shoot the ducks before they went for a swim. This is win/win plus good.

    OTOH, shut the tar sands down now. Life is too important to be left to chance.
  60. puddin and pie from Canada writes: how about covering the ponds with a sheet of plastic or other material?
    with patterns the ducks don't like
    or straw, etc.
    how come we never hear bout sewage lagoons?
  61. Randy D from Canada writes: Stephanie Harpercrite-you are the type I was talking about. Braindead is far too kind a word for your mentalityi.
  62. martha stewart from Canada writes: Ned Chiwalski writes: 'Come people these are ducks! Not some endangered species but ducks!'

    Its goofier than that. They are mallards the most abundant duck in North America. Its a bit like moaning about Canada geese or TO pigeons.

    If the reporter wanted to look deeper you can bet that this so-called First Nations demand has a lawyer from the Sierra Club or some such group pulling the strings.
  63. Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: If we stop caring about the wanton destruction of wildlife, we can stop calling ourselves a civilized society.
  64. Jim IIII from Canada writes: Rumor has it the liberals had caucus meeting last nite concerning this Duck matter, it lasted well into the early morning hours.
    Dion will announce later to-day that the Liberal party will be demanding that 'No Duck Flying Zone' signs be posted around the perimeter of this pond,

    (Way to go Stéphaneeeeeee)
  65. Deroga TORY from Canada writes: Alberta and its environmental nightmare called the Tarsands make the term 'filty rich' quite literally true. BC and Saskatchewan will have to watch out - soon, I expect we'll see a ring of sludge around Alberta, much like that left in a bathtub after a not-so-clean bather.
  66. Deroga TORY from Canada writes: Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: If we stop caring about the wanton destruction of wildlife, we can stop calling ourselves a civilized society.
    ________________

    Were humans ever a 'civilized' society? Ever since we became urban dwellers, most of whom are so out of touch with nature (except on the occasional weekend), that civilization seems to have flown out the window along with good manners, the ability to speak one's mother tongue without completely bastardizing it, and a genuine sense of caring for others' well-being. I think wildlife is much more civilized than we are.

    Right now, they are thinking of sterilizing a bear in Whistler because she gets into people's garbage - the obvious solution would be to sterilize the lazy people who leave their garbage out. Crazy mized-up world.
  67. Sue City from Ottawa, Canada writes: 'Alberta first nation wants duck probe' - that's sick!

    Sorry....
  68. Ned Chiwalski from Oilgary, Canada writes: Amen Martha!!
  69. Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: Deroga TORY writes: 'I think wildlife is much more civilized than we are.'

    Yes, it's easy to feel embarrassed by one's own species, when one looks at the beauty and dignity of wildlife. As I post this, I'm dreaming of the loons at our cottage, and their haunting tremolo over the lake at dawn. A pair of loons - and they feed my soul.

  70. Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: The Ojibway describe the call of the loon as 'a call that reminds us of everything we every lost.' I also have a beautiful Ojibway tale of 'How the Loon Got Its Necklace'.

    Oh, and the Ojibway word for mallard is 'shingebiss'. This is all an aside, but interesting, I'd say.
  71. Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: Hal writes: 'When they do find them (moose), they take only the hindquarters'.

    This would be a disturbing sight and it's totally out of keeping with the Native respect for animals. As I understand it, traditionally, no wounded animal was left to die in the woods, every part of the carcass was used, and nothing was ever wasted.

    The people who leave these moose carcasses behind have forgotten their own culture.
  72. Chuck the Canuk from the east, Canada writes: Today it's duck soup, tomorrow it will be humans who are dying at alarming rates from this abhorrent tarsand cancer on the face of the planet. And it being in Canada makes it even more disgusting to me, and should to every Canadian. Rape the earth and pollute every square meter of land and water you can, all in the name of profits for your shareholders. Anyone seen the RECORD profits being released for these bottom dwelling companies like Exxon, Shell, etc??? Way in the billions. Yuppers, they sure can justify the high cost of crude now, can't they. Jerks. Canada will pay dearly from this terrible thing called the tarsands.
  73. Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: Hal ManyWounds writes: 'When they do find them (moose), they take only the hindquarters.'

    This would be a disturbing sight and it's totally out of keeping with the Native respect for wildlife. As I understand it, traditionally, no wounded animal was left to die in the woods, every part of the carcass was used and nothing was ever wasted.

    The men who left these moose carcasses behind have forgotten their own culture.
  74. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Will the ducks have informed consent before they are probed?

    Or will they be probed against their will?

    These are pertinent questions.
  75. Rick C from Canada writes: 'Alberta first nation wants duck probe' Who cares...as a tax payer who will be footing the bill I could care less about a probe into some dead ducks.
  76. Hal ManyWounds from AB, Canada writes: Gail:'If we stop caring about the wanton destruction of wildlife, we can stop calling ourselves a civilized society. '

    Have you ever seen moose left in the ditches by Indian hunters because thety couldn't find them after spotlighting them at night? Or, when they do find them, they take only the hind quarters! I have, many times even though once is too often.

    I embarrassed to have the same skin color. Its time we all hunted under the same regulations so that there will be wildlife left for all of our children.
  77. Rick Drysdale from Canada writes: How about a public enquiry into how many Northern Alberta aboriginals have died or become sick prior to the oil sands being developed.

    They never lived in that area but the oil has been leaching into the river from day one and flowing into the lake.

    Lets get the living conditions of these people out in the open
    pre-Syncrude.

    They live off the land, sure, the land of Canada.

    Lets compare then to now.
  78. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Atlantica Party?

    They did, too.

    They removed the alien probe post.

    No sense of ha ha.
  79. Rick C from Canada writes: Chuck the Canuk from the east, Canada writes: 'Today it's duck soup, tomorrow it will be humans who are dying at alarming rates from this abhorrent tarsand cancer on the face of the planet. And it being in Canada makes it even more disgusting to me, and should to every Canadian. Rape the earth and pollute every square meter of land and water you can, all in the name of profits for your shareholders.' ...and in reality the oilsands footprint is the equivalent of a pinhead on a football field. Come back to reality...it's a much better place than your delusion.
  80. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    No ducks for oil.
    No ducks for oil.
    No ducks for oil.

    Everybody now, all together...
  81. Silent Majority from Canada writes: Chunk, It's called the 'oil sands' not the tar sands. Do you use oil? If you do you are part of the problem because your demand requires a supply.
  82. Rick Drysdale from Canada writes: Gail C from Toronto
    You watch way too much tv.

    From working with natives in Alberta I find for the most part they would starve to death just as quickly as any white guy if left in the woods .

    They are not nobel or any of that crap just ordinary folks trying to make a living like us. But their leaders have a lot of them brainwashed into believing they are owed a living due to past injustices.
  83. Rick Drysdale from Canada writes: Silent Majority
    Actually it depends I use both because I was in the area pre developement and believe me it is tar not oil.
  84. Rick Drysdale from Canada writes: Rick C. is right in are the whole shooting match is smaller than Toronto, now theres a sesspool to write about.
  85. Dick Nails from Canada writes: Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: Deroga TORY writes: 'I think wildlife is much more civilized than we are.'

    Yes, it's easy to feel embarrassed by one's own species, when one looks at the beauty and dignity of wildlife. As I post this, I'm dreaming of the loons at our cottage, and their haunting tremolo over the lake at dawn. A pair of loons - and they feed my soul.

    >> You are a freakin' loon. Both of you. 'I think wildlife is much more civilized than we are.' Two lies in that sentence.

    And how much gas do you burn on your way to the cottage? Gosh, you aren't one of those rich boomers are you? Better bone up on Marx so when the revy comes you won't be so surprised when you end up in N ON in a camp with other economic criminals (land owners).
  86. Many Oars from Canada writes: Huh. Toxic sludge ponds ain't got nothing on this cesspit that is a comments page. No wonder Alberta's going down the toilet even while its people wallow in money. Such ignorance and bigotry. We're all doomed.
  87. Joe Gopher from Canada writes: What does 'highly toxic' mean?
    In the context of a Globe and Mail Alberta bashing, the sky is falling, run for your lives, save the women ans children first, story, that is.
    Just curious.
  88. Silent Majority from Canada writes: Rick, Okay, in the past it was known as tar sands but has for some time been the oil sands (I think it should be called by it's real name bitumen). What I think a lot of people do not understand is that in many areas the bitumen is very close to the surface and seeps into the river are very common. But of course the self righteous (mainly Eastern Canadians - go figure) would shut the operation down completely then bitch the next day when fuel prices go up. This resource will be developed but of course everything possible should be done to mitigate it's impact on wildlife and the environment. Also, in my opinion, the nuclear (4000Mw is the current proposal) idea should be pushed through; I just don't like the idea of using all that natural gas for process heating purposes.
  89. Silent Majority from Canada writes: Joe, All you have to do is fly to Toronto; once you get East of Manitoba border and you can no longer see the ground you know what 'highly toxic' looks like.
  90. Prairie Boy from Canada writes: Apparently as a result of climate change, the sloughs where the ducks prefer to land were...frozen. The company normally has sonic deterrents to prevent birds landing but they were not out yet.

    In the end it's 500 ducks. No big deal. The company can buy the natives 200 chickens and it will work out about the same.
  91. Joe Gopher from Canada writes: Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: Hal ManyWounds writes: 'When they do find them (moose), they take only the hindquarters.'

    This would be a disturbing sight and it's totally out of keeping with the Native respect for wildlife. As I understand it, traditionally, no wounded animal was left to die in the woods, every part of the carcass was used and nothing was ever wasted.

    The men who left these moose carcasses behind have forgotten their own culture.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Where do you suppose the natives get those neat looking feathers for their headresses?
    I've worked on several reserves and several mines in the north with natives from several different bands.
    I remember asking a co-worker what he had been up to on his days off, he replied that him and his grandfather had gone out shooting eagles for the feathers.
    Go to Il-A-La-Crosse in Saskatchewan and see how much respect they have for the environment.
    The only reason the natives used all the animal in the good old days was that it was difficult and dangerous to kill a large animal, it only made sense to use it all. Now that they use modern technology there is a lot more waste.
  92. Joe Gopher from Canada writes: Deroga TORY from Canada writes: I think wildlife is much more civilized than we are.--------------------------------------------------------------------
    You might try raising chickens in weasel country before you jump to any conclusions about how civilised wildlife is, they will kill every chicken in the henhouse when they can't possibly eat them all.
    Or you could read this by an aboriginal elder from the Artic.

    http://www.nnsl.com/editorials/letters.html

    'As an elder now, originally from Bathurst Inlet, I have witnessed a very large pack of wolves following the Bathurst Caribou herd south of Daniel Moore Bay in the late 1950s. In their wake, my late dad and I witnessed thousands of dead caribou un-eaten and killed by this very large pack of wolves. My late dad and his dog team were almost killed by this pack of wolves, while he was checking his trapline.

    Since Canadian Wildlife Service removed the wolf control program in the late 1960s, the wolf population between NWT and Bathurst Inlet is extremely over-populated. During the wolf control program at that time, the Bathurst Caribou herd was healthy with approximately 500,000 caribou. Today, that herd of caribou has probably 100,000 left, and in a short five to 10 years that caribou herd will permanently disappear.

    The First Nations of NWT and Nunavut, Sports Hunters organizations, Hunters and Trappers Organizations and independent wildlife biologists from the south, in both territories, should find funding to hold a meeting to discuss and gather information about the density of the wolf population.
    During the meeting, their leaders should charter aircraft(s) to see for themselves just how immense this wolf population is that hangs around the Bathurst Caribou herd. It would be wise if Clarence Klengenberg and Joseph Tikhak of Bay Chimo, were invited to show the group where this very large pack of wolves is, as they, too, have encountered and have been chased by this pack.'
  93. Joe Gopher from Canada writes: Hal ManyWounds, good point about the jack lighting. There was quite a fight here about whether natives should be allowed to hunt at night with high powered rifles. The chances of finding wounded game go a way down, and most of the safety rules involving shooting and knowing your target and beyond can't be observed..
  94. mech eng from calgary, Canada writes: Gail C cares SOOOO much about nature, yet she sure takes every opportunity to mention that she has both a house AND a cottage. That's REALLY environmentally responsible. Next she'll tell us she doesn't drive and SUV back and forth between the two for six months of the year, but rides a bike.

    Get off your high horse Gail.
  95. martha stewart from Canada writes: Gail C writes: 'As I understand it, traditionally, no wounded animal was left to die in the woods, every part of the carcass was used and nothing was ever wasted.'

    Sorry Gail but you're believing New Age fairy tales. When they were desperate nothing was wasted. Otherwise...

    The most obvious example are buffalo jumps.

    You really need to read some real history.
  96. atlantica party from Canada writes:

    Gail C. from Toronto and Deroga TORY :

    Judging from your Farley Mowat-ist ramblings of loons , hindquarters and the noble Canadian Indian, I venture to say that the Mallards aren't the only ones in need of a probing.

    Seriously , it's only 500 ducks.

    If they need to replace them , I can throw a net off my deck and send all you need. Let me know.

    I must wander off now and club some seals before bed. Damn things are everywhere.