Skip navigation

 Login or Register | Member Centre

MADD targets Grand Theft Auto

DERRIK J. LANG

Associated Press

Latest comment posted at 10:43 AM EDT 01/05/08

Anti-drunk-driving organization wants adult rating ...Read the full article

This conversation is closed

  1. John K from Canada writes: If someone is dumb enough to think that drinking and driving is acceptable because it's in a video game then we might have bigger problems then just rating the game differently.
  2. Mike McFee from Ottawa, Canada writes: MADD should get a life..... As if we don't know the problems with Impaired Driving......
  3. guy tozer from Saskatoon, Canada writes: I grew up watching the three stooges, and I can't recall myself or any of my friends,smashing their siblings on the head with a hammer, or taking a saw across the cranium. Madd is a self serving group living on donations. They should get a real job, and leave saving the world attitude at home. nyuk nyuk nyuk!
  4. D K from Canada writes: Does this mean if I drink while playing a car racing game I should be arrested? Or if someone is underage and has a "virtual" drink they should be fined?

    Isn't it mostly adults that drink and drive? Hmm maybe it should be an under 19 only rating.
  5. D K from Canada writes: Next, Ottawa will want a gun registry for virtual guns. Cost: 2.9 billion. Lives saved: 0.
  6. Joseph Whistle from Canada writes: These video games really do deteriorate the quality of young people. They seem to be dumber than any previous generation. Remember Columbine and all the copy cat shootings? There was a sniper shooting at cars once.
    The video game makers just keeping pushing the boundaries, and we need to push back. These lame stupid excuses (see the previous 3 comments for example), just don't wash. Stupid oversimplified crap.
    We've so far seen shooting into crowds, blowing things up, chopping off heads, cutting, hacking, bleeding to death, snapping someone's neck, raping, and now intentionally drinking and driving. In Toronto someone was killed after a street race. Police found an actual racing video game in the car that was racing.
    These kids are impressionable, and these games are impressing them with stuff they think they can make the world go wooohhh with. They're looking for attention and it shows how they can get that attention.
    I guarantee that when they start throwing objects onto highways in these video games, that you'll start seeing kids throw stuff onto the highway.
    They're pushing and we need to push back. Sorry to throw all your little Libertarian world views in the trash folks.
  7. John K from Canada writes: Joseph, consider this.
    Perhaps the people who were street racing in Toronto were once normal, law-abiding citizens, they stumbled across a video game that encouraged racing and improper driving, went out and bought cars, made improvements to the engine/suspension/etc and then raced cars, as you've implied.
    But maybe they were car enthusiasts, liked tweaking engines, occasionally raced each other and then stumbled across a car racing game. Realizing that they race cars in real life they bought the game so they could also race cars virtually.
    The argument goes back and forth between whether violent games create violent people or if pre-exisiting violent people are attracted to violent games.
    I don't think your argument of pushing back against the gaming industry (or movies/tv/books for that matter) are any better than the "over simplified crap" coming from the other side that you're criticizing.
    To say that kids 'seem' dumber these days and then to blame video games is an over simplification as well, is it not? I'm sure that even if kids are dumber these days there has to be a laundry list of reasons why.
    Shooting into crowds, chopping off heads, snapping necks,etc as you've listed existed well before video games glorified them.
  8. Kevin Dooley from Canada writes: MADD is the modern day reincarnation of the Victorian era Ladies Christian Temperance Society, although they have been smart enough this time around to give themselves a name that reads like Motherhood and Apple Pie - who doesn't support mothers, and who isn't against drunk driving? If they restricted their activities to the sort of mandate suggested by their title, it would be easy to support them. But since they insist on reaching beyond that and into the realm of generalized social policy with a distinctly puritanical subtext, it's very hard to see them as anything but just another bunch of teetotaling soap box ranters, like their Victorian antecedents.

    In truth, they are opposed to all intoxicants at all times, whether legal or illegal, whether used publicly or privately, and whether used while driving motor vehicles or otherwise. They focus their activity on opposing intoxication rather than on opposing driving while impaired in other ways like through sleep deprivation, talking on cell phones, eating, etc. From this one can only conclude that they're really more interested in evangelizing a particular brand of puritan morality than with trying to reduce the number of motor vehicle accidents associated with impaired driving.
  9. Sam Patel from Vancouver, Canada writes: Joseph Whistle from Canada The problem with your argument is that you are assuming kids doing horrible violent things is new, and hence based upon or motivated by modern violent movies or video games. Crazy people shot university students from belltowers in the 1950's, and bonnie and clyde terrorized the mid-west in the 1930's. Violence is not new, nor is violence commited by children or young adults. People raced cars and cashed them back int he 50's as well. None of this is new. Eric the Red, who explored north America more than 1,000 years ago, is said to have "brained" another child in a dispute at the age of 4. And re: the current batch of kids being the dumbest yet, thats a perception thing. I would love to see you prove such a general and tactless statement with anything other than anecdotal evidence. As with anytime there are always going to be control freaks who want to tell eveyone else how to live or what to do, and there are always going to be mentally challenged people who will go out and copy-cat something they see on tv, read in a comic book, or hear on the radio. The real soultion to this issue is to what has already been adopted in other media and by this video games already: restict access to adult content to adults. It works for movies, and its been around for video games for some time. There is no need to fly off the handle and ban anything.
  10. john g from Canada writes: Joseph Whistle from Canada unfortunately the average age of gamers is over 30 (can't remember the exact age) and I seem to recall that it's been slowly increasing over the last couple of years. Perhaps you need to consider the possibility that this game (and others) have an older "target audience" and not "kids"... or maybe you just consider anyone under 40 to be "kids"
  11. Dean The Machine from Winnipeg, Canada writes: Look, it's like anything else. Do we order the Playboy channel for our teenager's to watch? Do they not have ratings in theaters that we are suppose to adhere too? Do we not care what our kids are viewing as entertainment? Do we actually think that our teenagers have the maturity equivalent to Adults to understand what they are viewing? Do we care if the kids believe in what they see on TV, movies and games? Are we teaching our kids that what's on these games is not a way a society should act like?

    If any of these questions don't make sense to you or the majority of us feel that they are not prevalent questions to ask ourselves, then as a society, we are in for a world of hurt.
  12. D K from Canada writes: "While virtually under the influence, the screen becomes blurred and the controls are more difficult to use. Players also have the option of hailing a taxi or walking. The intoxication effects wear off after a few minutes in the game"

    Sounds more like a simulator to me. It's terrible when they provide real world choices. I demand the company remove the option to take a cab or walk!
  13. Bored Worker from Woodstock, Canada writes: Joseph...You really need to research comments like this before you post. Research - That's non self-serving or specilial interest group funded research - has yet to link video game violence with increased violent behaviour in kids. Children's behaviour patterns are learned at a very young age, before they could possibly play a GTA game, from the PARENTS. So instead of fighting every percieved risk out there, why not raise your kids properly instead?
  14. C D from Victoria, Canada writes: Yeah I played the game. I went into a bar and got drunk. Had trouble getting to the car. A pop-up appeared, if your having trouble you should get a cab. I tried to get a cab but ended up stealing the cab and drinking drunk home and running over a few people. great game
  15. Sam Patel from Vancouver, Canada writes: C D from Victoria

    Players are able to run over pedestrians and etc. whenver they want during the game, virtual drunk or virtual sober.
  16. Sam Patel from Vancouver, Canada writes: Please everyone, recall the words of the Reverend Lovejoy's annoying wife:

    "Won't someone please think of the children?"

    Please also consider Mayor Quimby's response:

    "Why do I care what you have to say, you're just a abunch of low income nobody's."

    "Election year, election year"

    "What, again? This stupid country"
  17. Watercooler Pundit from Regina, Canada writes: I purchased this game on Tuesday and ran over a whole pile of people. All this without a drop of alcohol!

    Cops were shooting at me (one of witch my bumper quickly dispatched to computer cop heaven) I never saw any hookers though, but I did punch a guy in the face and take his Hummer. (I wonder if that really works in real life...) Anyways it didn't handle as well as I thought and computer blood cleans much easier than real blood. Anyways, I have to go back and rise to the top of the Russian Mafia.

    This is a GAME. IT IS NOT REAL. However, Rockstar Games appreciates the publicity and the sales resulting in MADD's pursuit for adult ratings on the game. I appreciate that they didn't demand a ban of the game and instead asked for an adult rating. Who am I to diss moms?
  18. Sask Langer from Canada writes: Joseph Whistle from Canada writes: These video games really do deteriorate the quality of young people. They seem to be dumber than any previous generation. Remember Columbine and all the copy cat shootings? There was a sniper shooting at cars once.

    When I was in school, the kids who were most likely to do something like that did not play video games.

    The stupid kids who DID run around vandalizing things and basically causing chaos definitely did not play video games.

    The kids who did play video games were too busy playing video games.

    And you say the young people are dumb? Pot to kettle....

    ====

    Watercooler Pundit from Regina, Canada writes: but I did punch a guy in the face and take his Hummer. (I wonder if that really works in real life...)

    It certainly doesn't help when one wants to punch hummer owners in the face.

    But (and this is important, so Joseph, I hope you're reading) I know enough not to do that.

    Sad to think the kids in my hometown who didn't play video games were too busy running around and punching people in the face. Must be the water.
  19. Sam Patel from Vancouver, Canada writes: Violence in games, especially towards civilians and bystanders, is not new. Anyone remember Syndicate or Syndicate Wars? I do not recall there being a rach of persuadatron attacks or random gauss gun murders after either of those two games were released.
  20. Kevin Dooley from Canada writes: Clearly we should oppose all violent games, particularly the games that try to hide their true violent nature by abstracting it, trivializing it and treating the casualties as mere numbers or tokens to be gathered. That's right, we need to ban chess!

    Oh, wait, that's stupid... hmmm... where did the logic go off the rails?
  21. Joseph Whistle from Canada writes: The disturbing scenarios are the ones played out that seems feasible to duplicate in real life. For instance, imagine what it would feel like to burn someone's house down while hiding in the bushes and watching everyone struggle to put out the fire and escape the house. hahaha... all those people doing all that all because of me, and noone can see me... hahaha...
    Get my drift?
    Or how about watching trains derail? Perhaps a game can show us how to sabotage the rail line... get my drift?
    It's not the strange wacky out of this world fantasy scenarios I'm worried about. It's the ones that sneak into kids minds. What if a game shows how you can make poison and sneak it into someone pop in a food court in a shopping mall. You can then see the drop on the floor while eating.
    Or how about setting off a poison gas bomb in a crowded area. Or inducing a crowd crushing scenario in a stadium by intentionally creating a panic. O watch all those people get crushed. ha ha ha . . . all in good fun.
    There is fantasy stuff that's clearly unreal, and sadistic stuff that could be real, and sneaky making-people-do-stuff and suffer type of stuff.
    Do we want to see video games that toy with these ideas? They will if we let them... how far do we have to go before we intervene?
  22. Matt Milne from Canada writes: Not just chess, Kevin. We should ban checkers too: advancing your rank by jumping over another character, that sounds like encouraging elitism to me...for that matter, ban poker too, since it rewards deception. Also, shouldn't we be worried about the racist undertones of chess? White does always go first after all, that must mean anyone who plays it will become a white supremacist.
    Seriously though, I think if people actually gave credit to the kids of today as being fully functional human beings capable of logic and reasoning rather than assuming the current generation is a bunch of dumb zombies who slavishly imitate wahtever media they are exposed to it would quickly become clear that video games are not the source of the problem.
    Here's a crazy idea: You think maybe some real world factors might play a role? Like the fact that America is involved with a war which has killed thousands of real world people? A war which was justified on the premise of weapons of mass destruction, yet now continues years after that idea was proven totally false? How about the fact that the media still glorifies this war as fully justified?
    Of course not, how silly of me. Let me just get my pitchfork and torch and we can all go lynch Rockstar Games.
  23. Mark S from Canada writes: I think it's naive to assume these games have absolutely no impact on how kids see the world. Does playing GTA lead to kids running people over or driving drunk? Of course not. But I think the fact that they're locked up in a basement playing games for hours at a time has to affect their views on things. Lock yourself in a basement for a week and see how social you feel. Now compare that to the sense of community you feel when you're out playing sports, ect. everyday.

    Things have escalated since a lot of us were in school (and I haven't been out that long) - drugs or the types of drugs available. What you can find on the internet. And, video games. The only way for these games to stand out is to push the boundaries even further. Maybe in themselves they don't cause kids to do bad things, but it contributes to the bigger problem of desensitizing them.

    10 years ago, when I was going to the bar - I heard of one gun being pulled and maybe a couple knives. Now, it's pretty much every weekend that someone is shot or stabbed. So just 'cause someone pulled a gun in a saloon in the 50's, doesn't mean that things aren't getting worse. There will always be violence, but on what scale?
  24. Sam Patel from Vancouver, Canada writes: Mark S from Canada writes

    These things come and go as well. There was a story in the G&M (last summer i think) showing crime stories from Toronto from before WW1. They detailed all sorts of incredible act public violence. Shoot outs in bars, bombings in labour disputes, babies being found abandoned in alleys.

    Drug use is bad for sure, but is it worse than it was in the 60's or 70's? How about drug violence? South central LA in 1992 (more than 15 years ago) was compared to Beirut, as was Miami in 1982. New York in the 80's was the home peep shows, muggings and rapist attacks in central park.

    People always have fond memories of a past that never existed, or perhaps they are not factoring in the class they belong to into their rememberances.

    Either way, I do not think preppy kids from middle class neighborhoods are about to turn to a life of violence today becasue of GTA any more than they were about to turn to statanism because of Ozzy Osbourne in the 70's. There will always be a certain % of kids who'll get into trouble. They never relfect the whole batch.
  25. Mark S from Canada writes: Sam - I see your point.

    I think the difference though is the types of drugs that are being used and the impact they're having. Stories about drug use in the 70s seemed to be about peace, love, and expressing yourself. Now 'meth-heads' are breaking into houses while people are home in bed. And they're hitting all communities - not just inner-city.

    Focus on one community or small town and look at how things have changed in the high school. You can't tell me things haven't changed at all. The school I went to was on the news a couple days ago 'cause a kid got knifed for his hand-held game. And that's in a so called 'good neighbourhood'. There was never a knifing when I went there. Or maybe that's a fond memory that never existed.
  26. Will Hoaccio from Toronto, Canada writes: As someone who has actually played GTA IV, and thoroughly enjoyed the drunk driving sequence, screw MADD. They took a respectable purpose (fighting against drunk driving) and have moved on to fighting against anything that could remotely lead to drunk driving (oddly just drinking, not driving).

    It is fun to drunk drive in GTA IV for the same reason Tetris was more fun at the higher levels than lower levels. The input and control skills required to manipulate the vehicle are harder, so you enjoy it more. It has nothing to do with some pleasure from virtual driving virtual drunk (what if i virtual drive, drunk?) and everything to do with the difficulty and originality of the sequence.

    Why would golfers apply a handicap on themselves, do they admire crippled people?

    Why would people climb a mountain over taking a ski lift, do they admire inclines?
  27. Jon B from Saskatoon, Canada writes: That's the funny thing about drawing corelations between violent crime and video games. Games get more detailed, violent, and graphic but the national violent crime rate is down 5% between '96-'06. If we're to believe that society is crumbling because of video games, someone has some serious explaining to do as to how non-game-inspired crimes must have plummetted to make this drop at all possible. What HAS increased is the media exposure we receive. All this expanded coverage simply shares with us all the tales of crime we'd have otherwise missed in our lives. It distorts our perception of crime rates by making the actual anomolous incidence of crime appear far more commonplace than it is. Here's a thought. Watch a Jackass movie if you can stomach it. This is the ultimate product of boredom. I don't want to oversimplify the matter, but when kids get bored, they do stupid things. Some deal with it better than others. Some go skateboarding, some shoplift, some play video games, some streetrace. It's not a question of games reprogramming our kids into a generation of criminals because the statistics show it just isn't happening. It's about us as parents teaching our kids good judgement skills. It should go without saying that smarter people will do fewer stupid things. http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/070718/d070718b.htm
  28. Sam Patel from Vancouver, Canada writes: Mark S from Canada

    I think you mean the 60's, and I think you mean the idealized 60's from soundbytes. Either way, from what I can tell the 70's heroin and cocaine craze was less about peace and love than it was about inner city decline, gang violence, money, and corruption. And outside of the middle and upper classes, drug use throughout the 20th century was about exploitation, addicition, violence, and money. The violence and depravity of the 70's drug scene morphed and mushroomed into the hyper violence of the 80's. The 70's drug scene was defintiely not about peace and love.
  29. Brian Van Ezel from Ottawa, Canada writes: MADD: One of the worst charitable organizations in Canada. They have the one of the highest percentage of money money going towards overhead expenses.

    They are nothing but an advocacy group against drinking. I personally think Ontario should have the same drinking age as Quebec...18.

    Next time you donate money, think twice about giving it to MADD.
  30. Watercooler Pundit from Regina, Canada writes: Brian Van Ezel: You must be the president of DDAM.
  31. Chris Eaton from Fredericton, writes: MADD needs to have its charitable status revoked. Its not a charity anymore, its a special interest group.
  32. Mark S from Canada writes: Sam - you're talking in generalizations. Focus on one school in one community and ask if the types of drugs and weapons that kids are bringing in have changed since it opened - whether it opened in the 60s, 70s, or 80s. I doubt you'd find as many guns or knives in lockers back then as you would now.
  33. brian bishop from Brantford, Canada writes: MADD's always been a special interest group financed with taxpayer money.

    But that's how things work in north america, those that wine the most receive the most. You don't really believe our elected representatives run the county do you!
  34. jim in London from London, Canada writes: Chris Eaton has it right MADD's CEO is paid most of the money they collect-it has NO credibility and no one should give them a dime and they should just go away! WE know drinking and driving is wrong and their stupid TV spots do nothing.
  35. Lou Bix from Canada writes: MADD is a prohibitionist group of people that want alcohol banned.
    They extort taxpayers money to take away the peoples rights.
    Now they want to rate video games.
    Go away MADD, you are annoying.

Comments are closed

Thanks for your interest in commenting on this article, however we are no longer accepting submissions. If you would like, you may send a letter to the editor.

Report an abusive comment to our editorial staff

close

Alert us about this comment

Please let us know if this reader’s comment breaks the editor's rules and is obscene, abusive, threatening, unlawful, harassing, defamatory, profane or racially offensive by selecting the appropriate option to describe the problem.

Do not use this to complain about comments that don’t break the rules, for example those comments that you disagree with or contain spelling errors or multiple postings.

Top Technology Stories

Top Stories by Section

Back to top