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Duck deaths hurts Canada's environmental image: Harper

The Canadian Press

Latest comment posted at 5:00 PM EDT 01/05/08

Prime Minister says the loss of wildlife from toxic oilsands pond should never have happened ...Read the full article

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  1. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Oh I can't wait for the Harper-haters to start swarming this thread. By comment 10 someone will have accused him of drowning ducks in his own bathtub in front of the kids.
  2. Joe D. S from Canada writes: I like how the Premier tries to shift the focus...typical conservative tactic. The loss of these ducks is a complete embarrassment.
  3. A C from Canada writes: 500 birds?

    Who cares.

    50,000 and I'd have something more to say, but when 500 things which didn't really even know they were alive die I couldn't care less.
  4. Mark S Noel from NT, Canada writes: Unless I misunderstood the article, 500 ducks landed in the pond, and one died?!? Who cares?
  5. Shawn W from Toronto, Canada writes: Talk about a public-relations nightmare. At least the PM admits it is a horrible thing that happened ... the Premier of Alberta tries to shift focus. Very unbecoming.
  6. Ruth Walker from Edmonton, Canada writes: Alberta has attempted to use PR to trump reality.

    The thing about reality is that you can not control it. Reality has a nasty habit of ignoring image, no matter how carefully crafted.

    And here, the reality is that we are turning vast areas of Alberta into toxic ponds, into scars that are readily seen from orbit. What we are doing is not even close to sustainable. We are creating a mess for future generations to clean up. Our children will just have to live with it.

    That is what the world sees thanks to 500 symbols.
  7. Mr. Mitchell from Canada writes: re: Mark S Noel from NT, Canada writes: Unless I misunderstood the article...

    You did.
  8. William Ross from Victoria BC, Canada writes: Let me see now ... every year thousands and thousands of ducks are blown out of the sky for fun by hunters but if a few hundred die in a tailings pond then the world is ending! What a load of non sense .. so some cannons did not fire off because bad weather prevented them being current and up to date. Good grief - who cares.
  9. Tom Butler from Woodview, Canada writes: Don't be fooled - here's what Harper did to the Canadian Wildlife Service (Environment Canada) last fall.

    The Environmental Monitoring and Assessment Network, which observes changes in ecosystems, has lost 80 per cent of its budget.
    * The Migratory Bird Program, which monitors the health of bird populations, has seen its budget cut by 50 per cent.
     The budget for the National Wildlife Areas, a program that protects nationally significant habitats for wildlife and birds, has been slashed from $1.9 million to zero.

    (Source CBC)
  10. Greg Out West from Canada writes: 500 ducks died which shouldn't happen but why did we have to air lift 3 ducks to edmonton ?
  11. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes:
    Canada's environmental Image is as a plunderer and liar thanks to Harper and Baird's work at Bali and in other international forums.
  12. Farenheit 451 from Vancouver, Canada writes: Sadly Mr. Harpers environmental record is already so poor that it is difficult for him to have any credibility now.

    He hasn't exactly been a crusader trying to protect the pristine wilderness up to this point.

    I am sure we will all wait with bated breath for the result of the federal investigation, confident that any recommendations it may make will immediately be acted upon regardless of the cost to the oil producing companies.

    Just on another point - the oil companies seem to be making money hand over fist so why are we not requiring them to make more of an effort to clean up their act? They seem to have plenty of profits to splash around with.
  13. Rick Drysdale from Canada writes: I agree with A. C. with all the crap going on in the world today we get all weepy about ducks????

    Animals die every day .

    When the farmers are cutting hay and the grain before combining hundreds of thousands of ducks and other animals are killed in the fields.

    Along the highways animals are killed by the hundreds of thousands.

    There is a big bulls eye on the oil sands and the idiots are out in full force.
  14. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes:

    Canada Image is now a dead duck.
  15. Duncan Munro from Canada writes:
    'Prime Minister says the loss of wildlife from toxic oilsands pond should never have happened'

    His new plan is to follow Gordo Campbell's lead, who is allowing wild salmon to die out rather than inconvenience the fish farms and their harvest of sea lice. So Taliban Steve will now eliminate all the ducks...
  16. Need To stay Anonymous from Alberta, Canada writes:
    Shared dinner with an old friend a few weeks past. Mr.or Ms. XXXX is employed by one of the largest oil patch corporations called XXXX and holds a very senior position. He shakes his head at the monumental environmental disaster well underway in Alberta, and cannot go public for various reasons I cannot share. Seek and you shall find! This is only the tip of the iceberg.
  17. Liberals Face Criminal Charges from Canada writes: Thousands of birds ARE killed each year by wind turbines around the globe and it never makes the media; the rate of killing should be reported. However, it makes better news when a one time occurance, associated with oil, can be spun internationally. Shame on the media!!
  18. Andy K from San Diego, Canada writes: Maybe Alberta can use some of its higher royalties to clean it up. and pass some environmental legislation while you're at it. And then maybe form an enforcement agency. The oil sands will be referred to as a 'disaster' in 25-50 years. Save it while you can. In California, 90% of the wetlands are gone, and they are extremely difficult and expensive to restore.
  19. S.L. S from Small Town, Canada writes: By the way people, 500 dead ducks covers off about 3 hours of open hunting season in the fall during the southern migration. We'll just have to open the season 3 hours later this year I guess.
  20. Liberals Face Criminal Charges from Canada writes: The ducks landing on a pond is clearly the fault of George W. Bush.
  21. Greg Out West from Canada writes: There's been more than a few posts alluding to the fact that a number of ducks and geese are harvested each year by hunters (I do not hunt today but I did years ago). It should be noted that no other group does more to conserve wildlife habitat than hunters. This comes from money paid in lisences or through donations and work through Ducks Unlimited. A lot of the wetlands we have today are a direct result of the efforts of hunters.
    Of all the money collected by Ducks Unlimited in the United States, 80 percent is spent in Canada to save and improve existing wetlands .
  22. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: Liberals Face Criminal Charges from Canada writes: The ducks landing on a pond is clearly the fault of George W. Bush.

    ..............................................................................................................
    No but the pond being instantly poisonous is the responsibility of W's poodle Steve and his Calgary cousin Ed.
  23. Dr Riff from Canada writes: migratory bird program? its that where they fly in a jet oil-slicked birds to sanctuary?
  24. More or Less from Canada writes: You people who think this is about a ducks dying just don't get it. Producing one barrel of oil from the treasured sludge consumes enough natural gas to heat a home for five days. Making each barrel of oil still requires two to five barrels of water--that's drinking water, folks; once it's contaminated with oil it's dead to all wildlife & humans. The environmental cost to extract oil is too high, but money is the benchmark that's used not the environment. It's ducks right now. Someday it will be people--maybe your children, more likely your grandchildren. Albertans can kiss their future good-bye for the prosperity they're enjoying today.
  25. T H from Montreal, Canada writes: Sounds like some people here should have applied to the PR department of Exxon after the Valdez Oil Spill...
  26. Greg Out West from Canada writes: Farenheit 451 from Vancouver, Canada writes: Sadly Mr. Harpers environmental record is already so poor that it is difficult for him to have any credibility now.

    He hasn't exactly been a crusader trying to protect the pristine wilderness up to this point.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    Harper has created more federal parks in 2 years then the liberal did in 12. His record may not be the greatest but the liberals record pailes in comparison.
  27. J S from Edmonton, Canada writes: Almost 500 ducks died in the pond. 3 were taken to try and be saved in Edmonton, 1 has died. The others were coated in toxic chemicals and would have drowned and died almost immediately.

    Syncrude didn't report this; a whistleblower called it in and it was verified by the government.

    It's not so much that 500 ducks died and more the manner in which they died. The tailing ponds are unbelievably toxic, yet the Alberta government and oil companies are trying to say how Green they are, and how they're reclaiming the land.

    They're obviously liars, and this is just proving the point. I have no particular vitriol for Harper on this point, and I certainly don't like him or have any intention of voting for him. This is a signal that that land is poisoned and toxic, no matter how much Stelmach and big oil want to spin it. The environmental situation here in Alberta is a disgrace.

    Good thing I'm moving out East later this year and my work isn't tied to the oil patch. The less I see of the Alberta conservative government in my life, the better.
  28. mech eng from calgary, Canada writes: WHO PAID TO AIRLIFT 3 DUCKS TO EDMONTON???

    If it is Syncrude trying to do damage control to their image, fine...if this is the taxpayer paying this, heads had better roll!!!

    That is just idiotic.
  29. S.L. S from Small Town, Canada writes: This article, number 1, should be written properly. The facts are all messed up and it's a disgracefully written piece of jibberish. Number 2, this article should focus on the actual issue of the condition of this pond with perhaps some acuarte details thrown in. Number 3, and I hate to have to point this out but, the deaths of 500 ducks isn't a really big deal. It amounts too, and this is purely a guess but, about .000001% of the population which will grow about 1/4 in size this mating season. Not to mention the flack storm of hunters these ducks will have to face this fall as they migrate south over Canada and the US. The ducks aren't the issue, the condition of these ponds and others like it is the issue and what's going to be done about it. This is appauling journalism and G&M, I'm extremely disappointed with this one.
  30. Sena. Siv from Toronto, Canada writes: Dead ducks speak a story many people understand and want to do something about . The oil companies will now have to put things right with pressure from ordinary people. I am disappointed with the statement of the premier of Alberta . He should use this as an opportunity to canvas environmental legislation specific to the oil sands.
  31. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    Ducks dying in a pile of goo is sad.

    I prefer it when ducks are killed after fattening to make Foie Gras! Yum!!

    Ducks and geese are getting a lot of press these days. What is the 'hidden agenda'??
  32. Rabid Senses from Good gawd, a latte swilling Westerner, Canada writes:

    A C from Canada writes: 500 birds?

    Who cares.

    50,000 and I'd have something more to say, but when 500 things which didn't really even know they were alive die I couldn't care less.

    A C,

    With all due respect (and that in itself is a stretch in your case), nobody feels the way you do.

    I would keep those repugnant thoughts to yourself.

    Amongst those who see this as a tragedy or even amongst those who see this as a minor cost of doing business, I highly doubt you'll find anyone in the Liberal, NDP, or CPC crowd who has such a vitriolic view of wildlife.

    People do care. And it is right that Harper asserts that he cares - even if he doesn't - because he represents one of the strongest voices in Canada and this definitely is a cause for concern. Thank goodness, because I love relating to my fellow countrymen about our love of our land and the wildlife that inhabit it.

    As for you, A C, why don't you save the acid for the bath you'll be making yourself tonight?

    (idiot)
  33. James P from Spruce Grove, Canada writes: S from Edmonton, Canada writes: Good thing I'm moving out East later this year and my work isn't tied to the oil patch. The less I see of the Alberta conservative government in my life, the better.
    ------------
    East of the dead lakes in Ontario? East of the iron/ore tailing ponds full of cyanide that can be seen from space? Or just east enough to use metals and oil yet feel like its everyones fault but yours? May I recommend Toronto for you?
  34. David Kanaschwiiz from Zurich, Switzerland writes: 'Duck deaths hurts Canada's environmental image'?!
    More like '...confirms Canada's environmental image' (to everyone but their flag-patch-wearing selves).
    Only Canadians smugly drunk on self-satisfied Maclean's/CBC/Global coverage could think that Canada has a good environmental image.
    The rest of the world is not as uninformed as Canada's neighbours to the south: we know Canadians are, by every measure, among the world's biggest polluters and energy hogs.
  35. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    I have an idea for a pro-environment commercial. Ducks are the 'hot' issue these days, right?

    Get a noble mallard to survey the tarsands--show snippets of the pristine wilderness it once was.

    Now slowly zoom in on the duck's face--show a single tear running from the duck's eye..

    Riveting...
  36. David P from Canada writes: Greg out west...Where are these federal parks that Harper has established? I daresay that BC has done more than Harper ever will...I don't remember ever hearing anything about that at all...when did he set up these parks? It might be the only thing he's ever done that's been positive for anything environmental...however, I'm sure that his oil patch buddies made sure that those parks aren't on top of reserves that can be trashed later...

    500 ducks dead due to greed...yes animals die as part of natures cycle, but 500 in one day because you need to drive your SUV's? I think the point is that animals and environment are being destroyed needlessly by corporations that have more legal rights than John Q Public does...

    Ed Stelmach - best Premier Oil Money can buy...Stephen Harper - best PM Big Buisness can buy...
  37. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: It is not about the death of 500 ducks, it is about a 'pond' so toxic that the ducks died when they came into contact with it. It is about 'ponds' so large that they can be seen from space, some 50 square km of 'pond'. This is not your bulrush-ringed pond, home of frogs, insects, and birds. No oil sands operator has received a reclamation certificate and only a fraction of the despoliation has been 'reclaimed' in the usual sense of the word.
  38. Derek Holtom from Swan River, Canada writes: how much oil is being burned by this thread?
    the ducks dying is like Harper said, not great for Canada's image
    but I wonder - that's 500 ducks out of how many that fly over Alberta? How many in Canada?
    The 500 needs to be put into context
    and let's not even point out how many people are using the very oil that comes from that area. anyone here not use oil somehow today
    make the companies be even more aware of protecting the envioronment, but lets be realistic as well
  39. S.L. S from Small Town, Canada writes: My Appologies to all. Although I am very guilty of making light of this story I defend myself by stating that I am not making fun of the situation but rather the actual story itself. Ponds like this, I'm willing to bet and as someone already stated, are probably just the tip of the iceburg. I'm also willing to bed that this incident is very minor compared to ones that probably happen several times a year that are hidden away from the publics eye. 500 birds isn't a huge deal but one is too many if this probably is happening on a regula basis. Please accept my appologies but I'm really having a hard time ( I mean I'm really laughing my head off here) at how this story was written and the pure fact that the G&M actually put it up. I think they need a new proof reader. Worst written news story ever.
  40. Greg Out West from Canada writes: A lot of posts pounding on Alberta today. No mention of raw sewage being dumped into the pacific be Victoria. No wonder there are less salmon and the few left taste like sh1t. Saskatchewan has a disaster in dealing with its pile of uranium tailings. The not so great lakes (20 percent of the entire worlds fresh water) is so polluted you can't swin in it or drink it. Good work guys. Halifax harbour is so polluted you'd die if you fell into it.
    I'm not saying Alberta has got it right. I'm saying in Canada today we have a big mess to clean up and it will never get done as long as we ignore the crap in our own back yard and just point to problems in other provinces.
  41. earl pearl from Canada writes: Oh my , 'the world' might see an image of one of our tailings ponds.
    In the entire universe of world images that should really stand out as horrifying.

    Agreed this story reads like a grade 2 project, hurriedly put together with few facts for the purpose of connecting Conservatives to the unintentional death of wildlife.
  42. C Messina from Canada writes: Harper is a pragmatist and knows how powerful the media can be. His comments are very accurate. Sad thing is that if you read between the lines, his concern isn't an environmental one, it is an image one.

    As for Ed, well, we know what butters his bread.
  43. Virginia Troy from Calgary, Canada writes: Harper knows all about the tailing ponds. He's not worried about the environment, he's worried about Canada's (i.e. his government's) image.
  44. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes:
    Alberta new 'state' flag.
    A Dead Duck in a pool of oil surrounded by $100 bills
  45. Bob Smitherman from Canada writes: Greg Out West from Canada writes: 500 ducks died which shouldn't happen but why did we have to air lift 3 ducks to edmonton ?



    ===============================
    It's the oil company. Some exec gave up his private jet to appear to be environmentaly responsible. Does the irony not jump out at you?
  46. S.L. S from Small Town, Canada writes: Greg Out West from Canada, dude relax. Alberta just got pinned because the press found a story to jump on that happened to be in Alberta. Name a single place in the world that DOESN'T have a problem with polution of some type. I've been thinking about it for a bit here and I can't come up with any. Does this make Canada look bad or Alberta look bad? Not really unless your nieve enough to think that your backyard is any better. relax, they aren't picking on Alberta, they're just staing a story to reinforce an ever expanding WORLD WIDE issue. This just reinforces the fact that Canada is just as guilty as every other country in the world, like we didn't already know that anyway. Right?
  47. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    diane--

    Stelmach suggests that tens of thousands of birds are killed by wind generators.

    Do you know if this is true?? I hope not.

    If the wind turbine factoid is true, and we base our energy source preference on how many ducks are killed, then what are we to do??

    Don't even ask how many species are threatened by hydro dams--it must be thousands. Coal?? The mining and burning are poisoning our air.

    I guess this leaves solar panels.

    Help me here diane--if the tarsands are nasty because of dead ducks, then so is every other energy source. What should Alberta do??
  48. persona non grata from Canada writes: To believe that this story is all about ducks is ignorance and idiocy at its worst.

    These lakes of tailings are huge ('ponds' is a nice euphemism) and contain toxic fluids that can't be cleaned.

    Imagine a tornado racing through these things and dumping its baggage in its path.

    Imagine these lakes growing and being uncontained.

    It ain't just ducks. Keep posted. Watch the trusted news sources. You're going to learn a lot more.
  49. P Scott from Canada writes: The bigger picture here is not the ducks, but the fact that there are huge, disgusting toxic ponds spread across what used to be beautiful land.

    Foreign companies continue to reap the benefits as they rape our land.
  50. Bob Smitherman from Canada writes: So much for Canada's clean and pure image. Why do we never see more pictures and documentaries on these huge toxic ponds? Where is all this poison ending up? Will we have to pay for the clean-up as we are still paying for the Sydney tar ponds? Shouldn't polluters have to pay for their mess?

    The real story hasn't come out, but I sense that it will. These 500 ducks might not have died in vain...
  51. C Messina from Canada writes: Greg out West--your post is dead on. Problem is, and most posts regarding politics and the environment, become a regional debate. The country is fragmented and just gets worse and worse. All the discussion about have and have not provinces certainly doesn't help. What we all do not understand is that all the success we might have as a region anywhere would not be possible without the link to the rest of the country. We need more people thinking like you, or frankly, we're all dead ducks (pun certainly intended).
  52. Geoff Rogers from Calgary, Canada writes: It is truly unbelievable all the comments about these ducks by the environmental crowd as proof that the oil sands is an environmental problem. Well do some research !! there are thousands and thousands of birds and bats that are killed by Wind Turbines in the so called 'Green Energy' sector every year. Why are these 'Silent Killers' not being torn down. Get over it.
  53. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Is the only Conservative/conservative rationale or justification the fact that someone else, somewhere else is somehow more at fault? Do Conservatives/conservatives ever contemplate the idea of taking a leadership position, or are they just loyal followers of lesser leaders whose usual practice is to point at the lack of leadership elsewhere as their excuse. Isn't this kind of thinking usually (disparagingly) referred to as moral relativism. To quote you-know-who, 'demand better'.
  54. Wandering Willy from Victoria, Canada writes: Gonna hurt our image eh?

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,501051205-1134807,00.html

    http://www.mindfully.org/Nucs/Contamination-Russian-Arctic.htm

    http://members.aol.com/hta/lillithsrealm/myhomepage/Humanity/RadiationExposure/ChelyanskiContamination.htm

    From reading lots of the comments on there forums it seems people are in love with Russia and China.........care to go visit?
  55. James P from Spruce Grove, Canada writes: Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes:
    Alberta new 'state' flag.
    A Dead Duck in a pool of oil surrounded by $100 bills
    -----------
    lol $1000 dollar bills would be more realistic.

    Put some mountains in the background just for contrast. Just don't show the BC side due to clear cutting and mountain half gone because of coal mine operations. We can't attack the less profitable industries, thats uncanadian.
  56. Kathleen Degelder from WashingtonUSA, Canada writes: Tom Butler: Source CBC? Are you serious? The CBC that is federally funded through your taxes. cuis bono? How much do the CEO's of cutbacks get paid for surveys on taxpayers? Maybe they should trim their budgets to regular coffee and not caffe latte expenses on the backs of tax payers.
  57. Bob Smitherman from Canada writes: spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:
    Stelmach suggests that tens of thousands of birds are killed by wind generators.




    ===============================
    Death by wind turbine is a noble death. Death by drowning in a toxic pond is criminal.
  58. More or Less from Canada writes: Earl Pearl et al, the article was poorly written but as has been similarly reported in other news sources, the fact is 500 ducks landed (ducks like ponds) in Syncrude's toxic pond and all but 5 died and only a couple of those survived. It's not the ducks, as sad as that is, it's that we have become so dependent on oil that we're willing to destroy our water, waste natural gas (which itself could be used for fuel), and trash everything in our path (the earth, water, resources, & air) to get it.

    This is not Alberta's problem, although they will ultimately pay the price--just like any abandoned mining or fishing town across Canada--this is Canada's problem and how we responsibly manage our resources. As one of the most resource rich countries in the world, we owe it to future Canadians to conserve these commodities and prudently extract them. As was mentioned our Great Lakes are not so great anymore, the easily-extracted oil that was discovered early in the 20th century is gone. What's the answer? Maybe look inward as to why the need to drive a gas guzzling car, explore energy alternatives, stop squandering the finite resources we have.
  59. S.L. S from Small Town, Canada writes: Actual stats on wind turbines, I have no idea but I know that hundreds of thousands of birds, ducks and geese are killed every year by impacts with aircraft, called bird strikes. We have, on average during spring and fall migration seasons, 14 to 15 bird strikes per week where I work and we're on itsy bitsy little area of the world. I would imagine wind turbines are guilty of quite a few. I don't find that hard to believe but true, it's not really about the birds but rather the toxic waste that our parents left laying around for us which we are handing off to our kids because we failed at doing anything effective to combat the issue.
  60. Tyler Williams from seattle, United States writes: Interesting.

    Scott from Canada writes: 'foreign companies continue to reap the benefits as they rape our land'.

    Nice try, Scott.

    Seriously, nice try with the finger pointing.

    The responsibility for the land use there begins in the hands of Edmonton and Ottawa, and it ends in Edmonton and Ottawa.

    On this one, you have nobody to blame but Canada's leadership.
  61. J Law from Canada writes: Ducks die from flying into buildings.
  62. puddin and pie from Canada writes: and Ontario's flag showing the moonscape east of Sudbury.....moan
  63. Ned Chiwalski from Oilgary, Canada writes: 500 ducks. 500 Mallard ducks. The most common type of duck. This is far from an environmental disaster. That's one good day's killing during hunting season! What is unfortunate is they died all at once and in plain view of the media!
  64. anonymous contributor from Canada writes: wind turbines have caused thousands of deaths from airliners crashing into them. they kill highflying thoughts. balloonists have disappeared near wind turbines. all these facts are hidden by the all-powerful environmental lobby.
    a little known fact: benjamin franklin built the first wind turbine and caused the extinction of the passenger pigeon.
    these contraptions don't look nearly as beautiful as on oil slick on a sunny morning.
  65. Bob Smitherman from Canada writes: Ned Chiwalski from Oilgary, Canada writes: 500 ducks. 500 Mallard ducks. The most common type of duck. This is far from an environmental disaster. That's one good day's killing during hunting season! What is unfortunate is they died all at once and in plain view of the media! =================================== You're missing the point, my friend, as so many of you are. It's not the 500 ducks, it's the toxic ponds. Who will clean up this mess, when will they do it, and who will pay for it? If I created a toxic swill pond in my backyard, I'm pretty sure someone would be on my a$$ to clean it up. So what's your answer please?
  66. Lyn Alg from Canada writes: Let's see if Harper puts his words into action. I doubt it since he has fully supported the big oil companies, his masters, from day one. Talk is cheap, Stevie ! Put your money where your mouth is - and don't get tongue tied.
  67. Greg Out West from Canada writes: Bob Smitherman from Canada writes: Greg Out West from Canada writes: 500 ducks died which shouldn't happen but why did we have to air lift 3 ducks to edmonton ?
    ===============================
    It's the oil company. Some exec gave up his private jet to appear to be environmentaly responsible. Does the irony not jump out at you?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Bob, it brings tears to your eyes. Bet he's some pissed at having to do it just to try and look good.
  68. William Doyle from Prince George, Canada writes: Thousands of people are dying in Africa each and every day of hunger and aids and our country does zero about it. 500 ducks die and we have our PM flying into Edmonton to comment on it. Great priorities in putting ducks ahead of people.
  69. J G from Toronto, Canada writes: Oh come on! Harper pretending to care about ducks, wildlife, or the environment. Political slime at it's best......
  70. Tony Maloney from Boston, United States writes: I worked on the Suncor site as an environmental toxicologist in the early 90s, and the scale of environmental damage then was small compared to what is happening now...and it was astonishing then. These tailings 'ponds' are actually lakes of oily water surrounded with beaches of tar. The oil companies are obligated by federal law to return the land to a pristine state, but the costs of doing this correctly render the oilsands enterprise unprofitable. They have opted for 'bioremediation', which is a fancy word for letting the tailings pond water percolate through the local wetlands, to be detoxified by plants and microbes. It might work on a geological time scale, but is unlikely to be effective in our lifetime. 500 ducks is hardly significant in absolute terms, but one could argue that they are the canaries in the coalmine: a small but significant indicator of environmental damage on a scale few would comprehend without seeing first hand - but from which we all benefit economically.
  71. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes:
    Ducks dying today, Calgarians and Edmontonians tomorrow
  72. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: Greg Out West, there are many parts of the Great Lakes that people do swim in, even if the water is a bit chilly at times, and millions do indeed get their drinking water from them. 50 square km.? That's no toxic 'pond', that's a toxic lake, and a fairly hefty one at that.
  73. James P from Spruce Grove, Canada writes: diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Is the only Conservative/conservative rationale or justification the fact that someone else, somewhere else is somehow more at fault? -------------- No of course not but to point a finger at one problem and expect that problem to be solved meanwhile forgetting the problems in your own area deserve to be reminded that all of us are the problem. What gets me is the focus on the oil sands because it seems like a poster boy for eco-responsibility meanwhile many many other larger pollution concerns go unnoticed. Its like the seal hunt- its a great way to raise funding for funding hungry groups but should be lower on the list of environmental concerns. Should the oil sands clean it up better, sure I agree, should the wind farms and houses and towers stop having birds smash into them? Sure. I find it sad though to see people use every method to stop development here yet find no issues with development eslewhere. It seems politically driven. Oil sands became an MSM issue only in the last few years even though they have been around for 30 years. Hmm what has changed in the last few years? Oh yes the government... Harper removes the tax breaks for oil sands which Chretien created and yet he is called by Lyn Alg from Canada 'Let's see if Harper puts his words into action. I doubt it since he has fully supported the big oil companies, his masters, from day one. ' Its about using the environmental propaganda to support your agenda of putting your guy in. Usual liberal tactics I suppose.
  74. Donalda Williams Clogg from Hudson, Canada writes: We should all care about what happens to our wildlife. They are important to our planet as all living things are. The oil companies knew of this danger and did nothing to prevent it. Apparently did not even report it.
  75. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Anybody consider the intelligence of these ducks?

    Think Darwin.

    Quack.
  76. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: There are a lot of really dense posters - I hate to say it. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE G-D DUCKS! It's about 50 square km of toxic tailings ponds, about the unfettered transformation of generally potable water into toxic sludge, and about the transformation of boreal forest into a wasteland that is not being reclaimed. There may well be some dead birds at the bottom of buildings and wind turbines, but those structures are not surrounded by an area of environmental degradation so large that it can be seen from space. Furthermore, despite record oil prices and profits, the companies that have created this mess with a compliant government's by-your-leave, are doing minimal reclamation (by any reduced definition of the word).
  77. Not right or left from Canada writes: Mark S Noel from NT, Canada writes: 'Unless I misunderstood the article, 500 ducks landed in the pond, and one died?!? Who cares?'

    Yes you did misunderstand the article. Of the 500 birds that landed on the pond, all of them died except for 3. Of the 3 that survived 1 has since died.
  78. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: James P:-- You have just ably demonstrated my assertion of 4:55 while responding to it.
  79. The Lighthorseman from Canada writes: Lyn Alg from Canada writes: Let's see if Harper puts his words into action. I doubt it since he has fully supported the big oil companies, his masters, from day one. Talk is cheap, Stevie ! Put your money where your mouth is - and don't get tongue tied.

    ========================================

    Lemme guess, you think Dion is going to 'take on' the 'big oil companies', don't you?
  80. Greg Out West from Canada writes: Paul Thompson from Canada writes: Greg Out West, there are many parts of the Great Lakes that people do swim in, even if the water is a bit chilly at times, and millions do indeed get their drinking water from them. 50 square km.? That's no toxic 'pond', that's a toxic lake, and a fairly hefty one at that.
    ----------------------------------------------------
    Thanks Paul I stand corrected although I knew it wasn't as bad as I had said. I'm just a little angry in that it seems all non Albertans seem to think all Albertans are OK with the oil sands and the mess involved. Most if not all of us are just as mad. This is the fault of government and big business. It is not the fault of the average person who haooens to live in Alberta.
    Cheers
  81. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    It's not about the ducks?

    No ducks for oil!

    The outrage!
  82. B. Ramey from Canada writes: The tailings pond of existed through both Liberal and Conservative reigns so blaming one and not the other makes no sense. In the Clarke Hot Water process bitumen is separated from the sand in huge rotating drums. A naphtha diluent is added to make the bitumen more mobil and then the slurry is put through a centrifuge to separate the now mobil bitumen and naptha from the residual oil, water and sand. A majority of the naphtha is recovered and a fairly clean hydrocarbon slurry is sent to the cokers for separation. Sulphur is removed and the light crude is put into the pipeline. However the the residual non-mobil oil, water and sand slurry or effluent from the centrifuges is put into the tailings ponds. The effluent contains inordinate and alarming amounts of unprocessable oil, water, sand, and heavy metals all in a slurry. The effluent was never processed further because no ecomonic process has been designed to effectively deal with everything that's in it. Some technical papers deal with possible residual oil recovery in the tailings ponds but mostly on a conceptual level. Oil would have to exceed much more than $150 per barrell to even think of implementing a process. At Suncor, the oldest tailings pond, is located directly adjacent to the Athabasca river and no one knows just how much from the pond is leaching into the river and the water table. Heavy metals in the fish, and birds are measured. The government and industry work together to do study just enough to keep the public satisfied without alarming them to the damage that has been done and the danger that the pond represents. You can laugh at the politics and a few dead ducks. But in about 20 years your kids will be wondering why more wasn't done to prevent the destruction of the water table and pollution of the Athabasca river and environs beyond. Quack. Quack.
  83. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    It's not about the ducks?

    No ducks for oil!

    The outrage!

    The same comment from yesterday!

    The stupidity!
  84. Geoff Rogers from Calgary, Canada writes: Just so I am clear on the environmental concerns is a follows.

    The oil sands that are much like a beach that has been fouled by an oil spill but occurs naturally are being mined. After the mining has finished the companies are too use the money that they are mandated to set aside to put the area that has been mined back to as close to their natural state as possible which is an oil fouled beach.

    The tailing ponds that are man made (Not natural) are used to store toxic waste water until it is treated and the only reason they are there is to prevent toxins from the mining operations from going into the environment. A huge snow storm prevents the company crews from putting out the air cannons to scare birds away and a few die.

    Ya I think we should shut them down. Oil who needs it, jobs who needs them, taxes who needs them, I think all the people who work in the oil sands should become environmental activists, because environmental activist contribute so much to our society. Oh did I say contribute I meant take so much from our society.
  85. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Honesty is the best Policy from Canada, go to the head of the class, you ARE paying attention.

    These duck threads have been the best.

    It NEVER gets old.
  86. Liberals Face Criminal Charges from Canada writes: Thousands and thousands of birds are killed each year by wind turbines. Where is the outrage?
  87. John Doe from Calgary, Canada writes: I agree with Diane Marie and others regarding this view.

    Let's make it simple:

    Think about it like a weak atomic bomb. There is going to be an immediate kill zone (500 ducks immediate injured/effected).

    Then think about the large 'halo effect' which will likely come with it.

    What happens when this starts going into the groundwater and hide in the vegetation which is eaten by other bugs/animals/fish/wildlife then to eventually us -- the so called apex predator. Think about the biomagnification of the poison as it eventually moves up the food chain.

    Don't think of definitive borders because in science, medicine and the environment......nothing is perfectly contained or controlled.
  88. Shane Mason from Canada writes: To anonymous contributor - my hat's off to you, pal. Easily the best post in days, let alone on this issue.
  89. neil b from edmonton, Canada writes: More or less says it takes five or six barrels of water to produce a barrel of oil....then it's lost to all for any purpose forever and ever and ever.....Wrong! Don't believe everything you read from enviroMENTAL activists.

    The water used to produce oil at the sands is a closed system. In other words it is used again and again with a loss of under a pint per barrel.
  90. Rick Drysdale from Canada writes: diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: 'There are a lot of really dense posters - I hate to say it. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE G-D DUCKS! It's about 50 square km of toxic tailings ponds, about the unfettered transformation of generally potable water into toxic sludge, and about the transformation of boreal forest into a wasteland that is not being reclaimed. There may well be some dead birds at the bottom of buildings and wind turbines, but those structures are not surrounded by an area of environmental degradation so large that it can be seen from space. Furthermore, despite record oil prices and profits, the companies that have created this mess with a compliant government's by-your-leave, are doing minimal reclamation (by any reduced definition of the word). ' You poor misinformed person. Please before you post maybe you could do a little research on what these tailing ponds are and their purpose. They are there to clean up the water used in the plants. The water is then recycled again and again. Do uou know what 50 sq kilometers is ? It is an area about 4 miles square 16 sq miles in area total . It is not just one pond but many. The city of Calgary covers an area about 280 sq. miles. There are many areas being reclaimed. Just because I can see something from space doesn't make it bad or big . I can see Calgary from space , maybe we could raze it and disperse the population, couldn't help but help the environment.
  91. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Did anybody get excited when those seagulls flew into the 747's jet engines, causing it to crash and kill hundreds of humans?

    Oh no.

    Humans don't count.
  92. S.L. S from Small Town, Canada writes: Greg Out West from Canada, again, relax. It's not pick on Alberta day. I have lived in Ontario around the Great Lakes, grew up there in fact. I was born in Halifax and lived there twice during my adult years as well as lived in Alberta and currently reside in Saskatchewan. I visited Alberta as a 12 year old kid and went to the Tar Sands project at that time. The husband of the couple I was staying with was an exec with the project. I stand by my statement that the current meses across the country were handed to us by our parents and we have failed to rectify their mistakes. We may have changed our way of doing things thus limiting the expansion of their mistakes ad teaching our children better practices but we haven't rectified the messes left behind. My hope is that since our children learned better environmental practices from us compared to what we were taught by our parents, perhaps they will have the ability and knowledge to face the problems that their grandparents left scarring the earth. In my opiion we spent our lives changing to healthier practices, and yeah, we still need some work, that we neglected to focus on cleaning up what was already there. In many ways perhaps we were taught that by changing our practices compared to those of our parents, the mess they'd left would just disappear. We didn't do near enough. My hope is that my children are a far cry smarter than me and my wife wi regards to this and that they will be smart enough to realize that what's already there, isn't going to just fade away and that more needs to be done than just changing your ways of doing things. It's sad but it takes one generation half a life time to make a mess and the next 3 generations to change the habits and clean up the mess. Very sad. It's not bash Alberta day though because our backyards aren't any better, just the press hasn't found out and repoted it yet.
  93. Shawn Bull from Canada writes: Tom Butler from Woodview, Canada writes: Don't be fooled - here's what Harper did to the Canadian Wildlife Service (Environment Canada) last fall.
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    I bet if they had a hidden camera there we would have seen that it was the PM himself that threw these ducks into the oil/water pond....because that is what Conservatives do!!!
  94. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    diane--

    Stop shouting.

    Listen...it is about the GD ducks. Horrible...simply horrible.....
  95. Shane Mason from Canada write