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Plot to kill Karzai began in Pakistan, officials say

SAEED SHAH

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 1:11 AM EDT 03/05/08

Islamabad's deal with militias in tribal belt seen as threat to troops in Afghanistan ...Read the full article

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  1. Geoffrey May from Canada writes: Afghanistan is a failed state, and likely to remain that way .Nato military victory there is not possible because the Afghans , and Pashtuns living in the Tribal Areas of Pakistan do not recognize the border.Any attempt by Nato to attack in the Tribal Areas ,could lead to Pakistan becoming a failed state .

    The idea that terrorists training in the Tribal areas are a threat to the west is beyond absurd. The "western diplomat" who thinks they could train there for an attack on London is talking nonsence ,what possible area of FATA could serve as a training ground for an attack on a huge city ? The 9/11 highjackers trained for their mission in flying schools in the USA , their success had nothing to do with any tactics they learned in Afghanistan.

    Any solution to the problems in Afghanistan and the Tribal Areas will have to start with the west thinking, instead of reacting.The negotiations between the newly elected government of Pakistan and the Tribal Areas is the most hopeful sign of peace seen in the region in a long time.
  2. Brendan Caron from vancouver, Canada writes: The Taliban/al Qaeda murdering terrorists not only plan on how to kill Karzai but also how to kill Canadian and Allied forces from Pakistan. Pakistan is full of people unwilling to stand up for what is right because when they do they are shut down. They are just keeping their territorial disingenuousness alive. Pathetic psuedo-democratic people, for the most part, posing as a people of integrity.
  3. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Geoffrey May: Greetings

    When the West states that the Taliban are a threat to the West, they do not mean to NYC, London, or Toronto.

    They mean a threat to Republican cronies' interests.

    This pact between the Talibs and the Pakistani govt. will certainly pose a threat to the US and Canadian forces guarding the Poppy growers and the Unocal gas pipeline, the real reason why Nato forces are there.

    Mr. Shah should choose his headlines carefully. FATA are Federally Administered Tribal Areas, not Pakistan proper. Pakistani Law has no value there since Pakistan does not even have access there. It is a more extreme version of Indian Reservations in Canada. Pakistan is being asked to do the impossible. After 100 years of failed British Imperialist policy Jinnah in 1947 withdrew the army from these areas replacing them by bureaucrats. There was 50 years of peace until Dubya/Powell forced Musharraf to renew it under threat of bombing Pakistan into stone age - for poppies and gas.
  4. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    The same story in NY Times has the heading

    " ... Afghans See Link to Qaeda in Plot to Shoot Karzai ..."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/01/world/asia/01afghan.html?hp

    No mention of Pakistan. No attempt to lay blame on Pakistan. Mr. Saeed Shah should refrain from his tendency to Pakistani Bashing at every turn.
  5. Khalid Rahim from Canada writes: Well done RAW! With your tentacles spread all over in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Why waste time in repeating the 1971 performance, when you
    know that the western public is the most gullible to their media and fall head over heels when it comes to who's done it? Palace coups are known entity of Kabul since 1830s and this was one of them, sooner or later we will know Casca, Cassius and Brutus.
  6. Asif Manzoor from London, Canada writes: Same old lame excuse that all the pupets give in Afghanistan. Simply blame Pakistan and justify your salary.

    They are giving USA another excuse to go ahead and bomb Pakistan's northern areas. Trust me, when it comes to Bush Administration, a news story is enough of an excuse. Varifying information is a 20th century thing for them.
  7. Fred Heff from cowtownCalgary, Canada writes: Carpet bomb the s$$t out of it.
  8. Ram Krishan from Windsor, Canada writes: Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    The same story in NY Times has the heading

    " ... Afghans See Link to Qaeda in Plot to Shoot Karzai ..."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/01/world/asia/01afghan.html?hp

    No mention of Pakistan.

    Pakistan has been mentioned exactly twenty times in the same article.
  9. Mr. Justice from Canada writes: Meanwhile, in Afghanistan:

    http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/BlamingthevictimAbusedAfghanwo04302008.html

    This is what happens when a culture is run by religious "requirements". ("Woooooooooooooh ! SCARY !") . . . NO ONE should be treated like these women are.
  10. Anand ** from Canada writes: I can't believe people see RAW as a source of trouble in Afghanistan/Pakistan. How many on here even know what RAW stands for? RAW must be an incredibly first rate organization if it has avoided being mentioned by any international journal, newspaper around the world except on the boards of G & M. But, people, honestly, come to a consensus who is to blame for Pakistan's troubles : Republicans, RAW, the media, Bush Administration, Indians or maybe maybe dare I say, Pakistan itself?
  11. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Ram Krishan: Greetings

    " ... Pakistan has been mentioned exactly twenty times in the same article..."

    Indeed it had. My reference was to the heading.

    In the NY Times story there is no attempt to blame Pakistan, expressed or implied. Mr. Saeed Shah's headline implies Pakistan is to blame, even if his write-up does not.
  12. Ram Krishan from Windsor, Canada writes: Khalid Rahim from Canada writes: Well done RAW!

    What is relevance of RAW here? Well, soon you might say that it was actually done by RAW so that they can blame Pakistan.

    LOL.

    Syed Abbas is FATA part of Pakistan or Not? What do you mean it is not Pakistan proper? That same mentallity resulted in the sepration of Bangladesh in 1971. Not Pakistan proper. Shame on people who believe that is not Pakistan proper.
  13. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    I see our Indian friends are at it again, making the G&M Forum a substitute for Indo-Pakistani rivalry.

    The funny part is that people in India and Pakistan do not see each other with such animosity - occasional wars aside.

    This reminds me of the Israeli lobby in Canada and the US who are one step ahead of the Israelis in their defence of Israel.

    Some psycho reason at play? This holier than thou looks to me tail wagging the dog.
  14. Norman Petit from Calgary, Canada writes: The plot to kill Karzai began in someone's mind - why bother naming a country with a population of a billion people?

    The US Air Force bombed a structure in Somalia today and alledgedly killed a top ranking Al Qaeda leader - along with 7 other unnamed people. Business as usual, I suppose.

    It is beyond obvious that we are seeing the last, reflexive convulsions of a strategy that was flawed from the start: the "exporting" of democracy to countries that don't really have any time for it, as it gets in the way of sectarian killing and corrupt warlord states.
  15. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Ram Krishan: Greetings

    " ... Shame on people who believe that is not Pakistan proper..."

    I smell a troll here. Nice try. Peace.
  16. Ram Krishan from Windsor, Canada writes: Syed, you are wrong. I have many friends from Pakistan. More that that you can imagine. And I have no problem with you or anyone from Pakistan.

    I just wanted to make sure that facts are not twisted. By the way, your other friend mentioned RAW here. Not me.

    It is funny how you bring it up and then blame it back...
  17. Ted Andrews from Canada writes:
    TROOPS OUT NOW!
  18. Anand ** from Canada writes: Syed, greetings.

    "...I see our Indian friends are at it again, making the G&M Forum a substitute for Indo-Pakistani rivalry..."

    I had a happy time reading all the posts and had no intention of commenting till I stumbled upon the comment of RAW. Scroll up and you'll see who started it. From the borders of Afghanistan to India. Incredible!
  19. Byron Rottweiler from Canada writes: Stupid of the Karzai gov. to blame Pakistan, they should have fingered Iran instead.
    If you're going to play the blame game, you might as well read from the NeoCon playbook.

    Anyone notice that Pakistan was a dictatorship for the last few years, and that it received billions in military aid from the US?

    Don't have a problem with that? You're not paying attention. This has been going on for years, people. Nothing new at all.
    Next thing you know people will be criticizing the democrats in Pakistan and calling for Musharref's return to dictatorship.

    Don't forget that Hitler was elected, that's the downfall of democracy. Up with dictatorship! 3 cheers for Stalin, Mao, Musharref, House of Saud!!
  20. Martyn Whitt from toronto, Canada writes: Was Jack Layton physically present in the planning or just by email?
  21. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Ram Krishan: Hi

    " ... Syed, you are wrong. I have many friends from Pakistan ..."

    How long have you been in Canada? Do you know what that phrase means?
  22. Mr. Justice from Canada writes: Nice try, maroons.

    That RAW cite I gave . . . well, it merely cited to a news item from: Associated Press. Want to attack the AP ? GO AHEAD.

    My point is that a culture-and-religion that permits or requires conduct like is -- here it is, so get ready -- "BACKWARD". If my reference to this culture-and-religion as BACKWARD somehow "offends" you: TOO BAD. Because it IS backward. And "backward" is a nice term, too.

    Try again. But please: Attack Associated Press, the source of the RAW cite that I made. MAROONS.
  23. Anand ** from Canada writes: Mr. Justice from Canada your justified frustration vindicates my post.

    What Khalid Rahim meant by RAW was Research and Analysis Wing, the Indian equivalent of the CIA. Some in Pakistan believe every misfortune that befalls their country is the doing of RAW whether it be a bombing or a fight on the Afghan border, while the rest of the world (people like you) haven't even heard of it.

    So, it was nothing against your post, which in fact made interesting reading. Cheers!
  24. Random Observer from GTA, Canada writes: Syed and Khalid Rahim, back with your propaganda again. Stop blaming rest of the world for the problems created by Pakistan.

    Syed, read the article that you quoted. Here is a quote from the article that you posted:

    "Afghan and Western intelligence officials have warned for more than a year that Taliban and Qaeda militants were using their sanctuary in Pakistan’s tribal areas to fortify their links, recruit new fighters and expand their ranks of suicide bombers."

    This support/providing sanctuary to terrorrist organizations is something that Pakistan has to stop.

    Byron, you are correct Pakistan has greatly benefitted from foreign aid since it's inception. Now these guys want to blame us for all the problems that they have created.
  25. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Random Observer: Greetings

    What business Russians, Americans, Americans have in Afghanistan except guarding poppy growers and Unocal gas pipeline.

    Imperialist designs will generate terrorist responses.

    As Gandhi put it well - you are trying to be masters in someone else's home.

    Eighty years ago Harding/Coolidge/Hoover gang put the House of Saud in power and gave them Shia oil. There has been trouble ever since then. A bit Westward, a Balfour gave Palestianian land to the Jews who were unwelcome in the West.

    Not to mention Mossadegh's overthrow.

    What you sow, so shall you reap.

    If you want to complain go piss on Balfour's, Curzon's, Cromer's, and Churchill's graves. Maybe it will give your anger some solace, but it will not solve your terrorism problem. For that you have to redress the real problem and undo much what you have done.
  26. Anand ** from Canada writes: " ..... Eighty years ago Harding/Coolidge/Hoover gang put the House of Saud in power and gave them Shia oil. There has been trouble ever since then. A bit Westward, a Balfour gave Palestianian land to the Jews who were unwelcome in the West..."

    .... and the British gave Jinnah his Pakistan and there has been trouble ever since.
  27. Paul Jones from kitchener, Canada writes: http://article.wn.com/view/2008/05/01/TheOtherPuddlesgate/?section=TopStoriesWorldwide&template=worldnews%2Findex.txt
  28. Springfire From ShenZheng from China writes: Of course, neo-cons from West won't stop at just Iraq and Afghanistan. Pakistan and Iran are the next. After that? Who else? The list could be long....
  29. Springfire From ShenZheng from China writes: Anand ** from Canada writes: ".... and the British gave Jinnah his Pakistan and there has been trouble ever since. "

    I guess that British volentarily left India and Pakistan after being warmly welcomed by these people?
  30. Gopal Bhattacharyya from Toronto, ON, Canada writes: I see this in a different light. Only issue I am concerned with is the well being of our soldiers. Over 80 soldiers died for a cause which is to protect the Afghans. The terrorists are using the Pakistani soil to attack our soldiers. There are two choices - protect our soldiers at any cost or get out of Afghanistan. I do not trust Masharraf or his army to protect our soldiers. They allowed their soil to be used by the Talibans and Al-Qaeda. They have fooled the US and got billions of dollars as aids. The US followed this policy for over 6 years and we are still where we stated.
  31. Andy Garrett: Parry Sound: June 26 to July 13 from West Palm Beach, United States writes: P.J. Your link doesn't work. Oh, maybe your masters down here don't want me looking at it. LOL.
  32. Paul Jones from kitchener, Canada writes: Hey Andy, try this one:http://cgi.wn.com/?action=display&article=71678434&template=worldnews/paidnews.txt&index=recent

    If that doesn't work, just go to www.wn.com
    You can't miss it, its right on the front page
  33. Andy Garrett: Parry Sound: June 26 to July 13 from West Palm Beach, United States writes: P.J. Your thoughts on the Chavez theft of the Steel Co. over on the comments for it? I updated you on
    yesterday's discussion.
  34. Random Observer from GTA, Canada writes: Syed, Do try to read and use some logic to link your arguments to the topic.

    What does Pakistan support for terrorist organization have to do with house of Saud or Israel or Palestine?

    OBL has his agenda; Pakistan choose to provide support/sanctuary to his bunch and other terrorist group. Pakistan made this choice; no one from West made this choice for them. This is what Pakistan has to fix.

    As to business of NATO in Afghanistan, they were invited by Taliban, when Taliban choose to support OBL. I am sure you are aware of relation between OBL and Taliban.

    If we want to go fix all the bad things done in History, we wouldn't have any Islamic nation, since most of Islam today is based on conversion of Pagan religions.

    Start living in present and stop creating more problems for future.
  35. Andy Garrett: Parry Sound: June 26 to July 13 from West Palm Beach, United States writes: P.J. Here from today's Palm Beach Post on your buddy: Cuba urged its people to work harder and increase production at a short, snappy May Day parade Thursday, reflecting the businesslike style of new president Raul Castro. Marchers danced, sang, waved banners and screamed "Long Live Fidel! Long Live Raul!" until they were hoarse.Raul Castro, who succeeded his brother Fidel as president in February, did not speak, but smiled and waved from a podium as hundreds of thousands streamed past him in vast Revolution Plaza. The whole thing was over in under two hours — less time than Fidel Castro used for his speech at the last May Day event he attended, in 2006. For decades, May Day often featured lengthy addresses by Fidel and foreign leaders, as well as musical productions. But Raul, who has spent most of his life running Cuba's military, has a reputation for pragmatism and calculating efficiency. Thursday's event had only one speaker, communist labor union chief Salvador Valdes Mesa, who called on state employees to rout out "inefficiencies and weaknesses" in the workplace. It was Raul Castro's first May Day as president, though he also presided over last year's celebrations without giving a speech. The 81-year-old Fidel has not been seen in public since emergency intestinal surgery in July 2006, but he was still the star of Thursday's parade, which began with a row of marchers carrying a huge sign reading "Revolution is Fidel." Several minutes went by before a picture of Raul came into view. The parade ended with more than a dozen people hoisting a likeness of the former leader that looked like it might stretch half a city block. But 57-year-old Rolando Gonzalez, who marched with government tourism workers, said the two brothers aren't as different as many think. "Raul's style is the same as Fidel's. With him we are on the same road as always," he said. "But Raul does talk more about hard work, producing more and that's important."
  36. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Random Observer

    " .. OBL has his agenda .."

    Indeed. He wants the Americans out of Saudi Arabia. What has this to do with Pakistan.

    " .... As to business of NATO in Afghanistan, they were invited by Taliban, when Taliban choose to support OBL. ..."

    Indeed. So were the Russians. See what happened to them.

    " ... I am sure you are aware of relation between OBL and Taliban..."

    Too much aware in fact. The CIA asks Pakistan to spearhead Soviet demise. But leaves Afghanistan with 1,000,000 dead and as many landmines, and Pakistan with 6,000,000 refugees, all so that Canadians can live in peace without being threatened by Soviet Nukes.

    Then the CIA and Clinton goads BB and ISI to organize the Taliban. They did.

    But when the Talibs gave the Unocal gas pipeline contract to the Russians, suddenly OBL the guest became a problem.

    Then Dubya/Powell want Pakistan to divorce the Talibs.

    Make up your mind man. Pakistan is not a yo-yo.
  37. Bohemian Grove Club Member from Canada writes: Syed Abbas from Toronto: Yawn, poor Mulsims they are sooooo, hard done by!
  38. Random Observer from GTA, Canada writes: Syed, did you learn to read/comprehend or are you limited to typing? I asked you to stay on topic and you comeback with more irrelevant conspiracy theories.

    Missiles based in Eastern Europe are more relevant to Canada, then the ones in Afghanistan. Pakistan was more impacted by Soviet in Afghanistan.

    As I said before, you have no logic to your rambling. This is what happens when your education is limited to religious propaganda. You might want to suggest the maddrassa board of education to expand the curriculum.

    Pakistan is not a yo-yo; they have been very consistent in their support for terrorist and creating problems for rest of world.

    You need to make up your mind if you are for Canada or you are just another parasite taking advantage of our generosity?
  39. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Bohemian: Hi

    " .... Yawn, poor Mulsims they are sooooo, hard done by! ...."

    No more. Once bitten twice shy. Try your charms now on our Indian neighbors. Maybe they will bite.

    The Pakistanis should not have abandoned Jinnah's policies in the first place. While our Indian friend Nehru fawned on the English, Jinnah gave them cold shoulder. He lost east Punjab, but kept his dignity.

    Pakistanis are learning. Corporate West, fight your own battle. So Bohemian, can we expect you enlist for the Afghan front next week?
  40. Bohemian Grove Club Member from Canada writes: Syed Abbas from Toronto: Just last week the Taliban killed members of a poppy eradication team so who is protecting the poppies again?

    Are you saying that people Pakistan agree with OBL about the US in SA being removed as to why they protect him?

    Pakistan gets 785 million, up from 707 million last year. And again, that's focused on a variety of activities that will bring about police training, develop education programmes and health programmes directly from the US. So tell me again why is Pakistan supporting terrorists who oppose the US?

    As far as a pipe line, who are you trying to fool, your telling me in a country where the Taliban blow up satellite towers they wouldn't find it easy to put a hole in a pipe line just laying there? OK! Even if there is one to go in who in the end get a piece of that money, maybe the Afghanis? Yes lets not put foreign investment into Afghanistan as they have plenty of job opportunities already. In the end provide proof of a pipe line not what you heard at some Islamic fundamentalist meeting you attend in Canada.
  41. Khalid Rahim from Canada writes: Anand**& Ram Krishan, RAW has been involved in Afghanistan since the Taliban and Northern Alliance had been battling each other. At that time they were not many and mostly operated in the north, where NA had full control of the area. Today RAW has members in the numerous Consulates
    that India has established in Afghanistan. In Kabul at the Center Karzai is surrounded by members of Northern Alliance with hardly a few Pushtuns to
    advise him. In the last two years Karzai has completely changed attitude towards Pakistan, after signing the mutual defence treaty with India. Why would Pakistan take him on? Unless the government in Islamabad wants to commit suicide. This struggle between the Pushtuns and Tajiks
    will continue fueled by powers with vested interest.
  42. Random Observer from GTA, Canada writes: Syed, you are a major troll. This article is about Afghanistan and Pakistan, and you bring India in discussion again. And as above, you will again blame India for all your problems. Try to stay focused.

    If you want to we can easily compare 2 countries.

    India and Pakistan both started at same time in similar situation. Now India is recognized as significant contributor to world, while Pakistan has had one civil war, created lots of problem for world and lived most of it life so far from IMF and US handouts.
  43. Anand ** from Canada writes: Thank you Khalid Rahim. I now have full faith that RAW is indeed the topmost covert agency in the world.

    " ... Today RAW has members in the numerous Consulates
    that India has established in Afghanistan..." : sure, if you say so.
  44. Lewis Armstrong from Queen's Park, Canada writes:

    Pakistan's tribal belt, which runs along the border with Afghanistan and is known as the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, was also pinpointed yesterday in a U.S. State Department report, which said the area was used by al-Qaeda to rebuild after a previous ceasefire there.

    ---------

    This is the area of the world which is home to most of the Taliban and all of the Taliban leadership.
  45. Mike Sumners from Toronto, Canada writes: Pakistan is waging a proxy war against Afghanistan. The Taliban are the foot soldiers in Pakistan's undeclared war against Afghanistan; if the West pulls out now, the religious nuts will win and therefore Pakistan will have de facto control over its neighbour.
  46. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Khalid Rahim: AOA

    " ... RAW has been involved in Afghanistan since the Taliban and Northern Alliance had been battling each other ..."

    Correction. RAW has been involved in Afghanistan from the days of Zahir Shah.

    Random Observer: Greetings

    Sorry, we are not taking your bait. Try it on our Indian friends. Even their, I see that US-India nuclear pact is in jeopardy.

    Bohemian:

    " ... Pakistan gets 785 million .."

    Nationalist Sharif told the US to keep it. Pakistan needs trade not aid. No wonder the US tried their level best to keep Musharraf in power so they could buy him off cheap.

    Ask CIA to give that money to Ottawa so maybe they can send another 1,000. Are you enlisting?
  47. Mike Sumners from Toronto, Canada writes: Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    "When the West states that the Taliban are a threat to the West, they do not mean to NYC, London, or Toronto."

    Tell that to the 3,000 or so dead people in the World Trade Center attack. This would never have happened if the Taliban had not allowed international terrorists to use Afghanistan as a base.

    As usual, Syed, you're trying to put happy face on islam and islamic terrorists. But you really need to work on your Taqqiya ;-)
  48. Bohemian Grove Club Member from Canada writes: Syed Abbas from Toronto: Ex-military already too old now to fight dummies who think religion is worth fighting for. I have helped my son many times over the last few years to get ready to join the military but still has two more years in cadets to go first. I am proud of him for wanting to fight for his country against religious nutters like you. Your ideas are not Canadian your ideas are that of a foreigner you live among us and enjoy the Canadian life style, yet seem to think Pakistan is some kind of holy land. It's not it's full of uneducated, backwater, tribal dummies, who on their best day split their land in two then went on to fight and kill their own people(India). Your people used Gandhi to kick the British out then destroyed everything that was given to you (your country). Yet you sit here trying to tell us how bad we are and how wrong we are seems to me you can’t even make peace with your own people let alone know who is a friend and who isn&8217;t..
  49. Mike Sumners from Toronto, Canada writes: Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    "Ram Krishan: Greetings

    ' ... Pakistan has been mentioned exactly twenty times in the same article..'.

    Indeed it had. My reference was to the heading."

    LOL That's really pathetic, Syed! As soon as someone checks your deceitful claims, you change your whole story. I know you're not all that bright, but I would have expected better even from you! Sad, really sad...
  50. Mike Sumners from Toronto, Canada writes: Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    "I see our Indian friends are at it again, making the G&M Forum a substitute for Indo-Pakistani rivalry.

    This reminds me of the Israeli lobby in Canada and the US who are one step ahead of the Israelis in their defence of Israel."

    Hmmm, now he's disguising his Jew-baiting as anti-Israeli statements...yawn...
  51. Mike Sumners from Toronto, Canada writes: Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    "Ram Krishan: Hi

    ' ... Syed, you are wrong. I have many friends from Pakistan ...'

    How long have you been in Canada? Do you know what that phrase means?"

    Now Syed appears to be taking an anti-immigrant stand! Will his bigotry and two-faced statements never end. What a sad little man, but an endless source of amusement! ;-D
    Keep 'em coming Syed! We love ya! LOL
  52. Mike Sumners from Toronto, Canada writes: Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    "Eighty years ago Harding/Coolidge/Hoover gang put the House of Saud in power and gave them Shia oil. There has been trouble ever since then. A bit Westward, a Balfour gave Palestianian land to the Jews who were unwelcome in the West."

    Gosh Syed, in a previous thread a week or so back, you said you didn't know what a Jew was. Time to back peddle again!
  53. Bohemian Grove Club Member from Canada writes: Syed Abbas from Toronto: 785 million is more then your country makes in 2 years, you really have no clue do you? Sorry but 785 million will help many Pakistanis who need to be educated on more then the teaching of so dessert rat that was no more then a brutal nut case upset that no one wanted to hear is made up religion. We in Canada don’t feel sorry for a people who make their own problems but that doesn&8217;t mean we won&8217;t help those who need it. So regardless of what YOU think is going on, Pakistan has already taken the money once and will again, so who is living in denial here me or you?
  54. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Mike Sumners: Greetings

    Your 5 posts in response to my posts are acknowledged with gratitude.

    Keep them coming.
  55. Kathleen Degelder from WashingtonUSA, Canada writes: Sayed Abbas: The nuclear peace treaty of India with the USA is not in jeopardy. Not according to the information of the CNS. Also Zahir Shah was in Iran not Pakistan. Unless you are referring to dual citizenship.
  56. Mike Sumners from Toronto, Canada writes: Random Observer from GTA, Canada writes: "Syed, did you learn to read/comprehend or are you limited to typing? I asked you to stay on topic and you comeback with more irrelevant conspiracy theories."

    Folks, don't expect anything better from Syed. His education is limited to the filth he hears in the mosque every week (every day??).
    Syed tries his best to be "the friendly muslim" as if he had just stepped off the set of Little Mosque on the Prarie, but he fails. I suspect he has failed at a lot of things in life.
    But that's not my problem. The weather is warming up and it's gonna be a good weekend! Have a good one, folks and have fun with Syed (a hint: get him angry and he'll drop the "nice muslim" act in a heartbeat ;)
  57. M. S From Edmonton from Canada writes: as much as i think Syed is crazy, "muslims ruling the world and such" at least he is being consistent in his responses..

    random observer and Bohemian, you two are the ones that dont seem to understand the issue...I guess this is the same issue US foreign policy makers are having.. you are looking at one country as if it was isolated from the rest...

    Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, India, Iraq and Russia all have intertwined history.. talking about one, usually involves discussions regarding others....

    Syed is correct, US and Brazil were trying to build an oil pipe through Taliban territory , during that time, we didn't hear a peep about how they were harboring OBL, or how women were being treated ... Comes in Russia's deal and suddenly we are up in arms about OBL, and treatment of women. remember we are in Afghanistan so little girls can go to school and not be raped* ...

    OK trying to keep this short, so maybe it wont overwhelm you...

    if you have time, *care to actually know more than what media tells you     here are some good books to read:
    "Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia"
    "The Great Game: The Struggle for Empire in Central Asia"

    just as I don't try to talk about Paul Martin, Bush, Harper, Trudeau , and Mulroney with out reading about them as I am not familiar with North American history as an immigrant, can you please read about the history of a nation / area before you talk about it so passionately ?
  58. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Kathleen Degelder: Hi

    " .... The nuclear peace treaty of India with the USA is not in jeopardy..."

    The reluctance is on the Indian side, so much so that the US has threatened that if the Indian side does not ratify it until the year-end, it is dead.

    " ... Zahir Shah was in Iran not Pakistan..."

    Zahir Shah d. last July was the last king of Afghanistan ruled 1933-73. I am almost certain he was not a dual national.

    Of Iran, perhaps you meant King Reza Shah (Pahlavi).
  59. Bohemian Grove Club Member from Canada writes: M. S From Edmonton: Where is the pipe line today? Want is wrong with building industry in one of the poorest countries in the world? Sorry not buying but nice try, once more where is your proof that US and Brazil built anything? You don't have it because it was never built. You are really sitting there saying the Taliban were the good guys, come on you two need your heads slapped together a few times to get the conspiracy theories out of your heads.
  60. Bohemian Grove Club Member from Canada writes: M. S From Edmonton: Who should be the rightful leader of Afghanistan today and why is he not?
  61. M. S From Edmonton from Canada writes: Bohemian Grove .. im in a fairly good mood today..

    talk to me when u actually read one of the books i suggested.. I am even open to you suggesting a book that would educate me.. we can make a trade off.. as it has been said by a somewhat wise/ and perverted man:

    teach me something, and I am forever in debt to you .
  62. Bohemian Grove Club Member from Canada writes: M. S From Edmonton: Uhhhmmm, yea too bad you can't grasp what the G&M fourms are about, you don't get to choose who responds your garbage only the G&M cencor does. Tell if your so smart who should be the leader of Afghasnistan and why is he not?
  63. Bohemian Grove Club Member from Canada writes: Sorry that was bad didn't even check it so redone here for you - M. S From Edmonton: Uhhhmmm, yea too bad you can't grasp what the G&M forums are about, you don't get to choose who responds your garbage only the G&M censor does. Tell if you’re so smart who should be the leader of Afghanistan and why is he not?
  64. M. S From Edmonton from Canada writes: Bohemian Grove Club Member from Canada writes: M. S From Edmonton: Who should be the rightful leader of Afghanistan today and why is he not?
    ---
    thats for the people of Afghanistan to decide ..

    further more i never claimed to be smarter than you ... we can meet up and do an IQ test if you like ?
    further more, am i correct to assume that my posts are branded as garbage by you because i said I immigrated to Canada?
  65. Bohemian Grove Club Member from Canada writes: responds "TO" your garbage: Don't want to confuse you or anything, next you will be correcting my spelling and grammar as your kind love to do as well.
  66. Bohemian Grove Club Member from Canada writes: M. S From Edmonton: I see you have no clue about Afghanistan but you know there is a planned pipe line through it so your against the war. Little help for you look up Ahmad Shah Massoud who was killed by the Taliban because he was the true leader of Afghanistan forced out by religious nutters like Syed Abbas who support terrorists with their words and deeds. Also it helps to understand that Ahmad Shah Massoud was the leader of the Afghanis that forced out the Russians and was a US ally right up to his death at the hands of OBL buddies on September 9th 2001 strange only two days later we have 9/11 but there is no connection between the two now is there. Ahmad Shah Massoud is an Afghan patriot and he killed Russians for his country and Taliban in his eyes they were one in the same. What I find sad is that he in the end had only 10% of the country, yet had 1/3rd of its population living under his protection from the Taliban.
  67. M. S From Edmonton from Canada writes: Ahmad Shah Massoud was a self proclaimed king... and since when does that entitle someone to rule a country ?
    do you know why the Taliban movement was so widely supported? because Ahmad Shah did not let Pashtuns have a say in the country's affair...

    again, I would love to learn where you have accumulated such vast knowledge ...

    ---
    now im goign to go home now, and drink some beer, like a good Canadian...

    I like to point out that I never once suggested, implied or said that Taliban were good...

    I do wish that there was a method that would allow mankind to distinguish between extremists, and normal people[before its too late]. we could put all of them (you included) in a happy little Island(Diego Garcia would work since it already has the facilities built, and all its inhabitants ejected) and the rest of us could live happily together, with out resorting to violence..
  68. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Bohemian:

    " .... Ahmad Shah Massoud who was killed by the Taliban because he was the true leader of Afghanistan forced out by religious nutters like Syed Abbas who support terrorists ...."

    If Ahmad Shah Masood was the true leader (which he was) how come he got no armaments from the CIA. The Talib great Hekmetyar got all. Google it.

    Masood was no secular, he was religious just like others, but he was on "wrong" side of CIA, the Northern Alliance armed by Iran and supported by the Shia. Hekmetyar was Sunni and since Saudi paid for the arms he got all.

    Masood was in the North on Russian path to the south, and saw most of the action. Hekmetyar, CIA's darling, in the south coasted.

    But the Corporate West supported Hekmetyar, and paid the price with Talibs. BTW, all those arms are still stashed away in caves to fight the West. What a joke.

    Sir, it is the West who supports the terrorists, until of course, they make a deal with the Russians for the gas pipeline.
  69. Bohemian Grove Club Member from Canada writes: M. S From Edmonton: No it wasn't, it became a power because Pakistan supported the Taliban movement with cash to protect goods traveling to Kabul. The Taliban started out as students of Islam radicalised and sent off to fight a holy war of which they will die for. There is nothing about Islam in the war in Afghanistan it is a war for control and power by the Taliban. Who I could add doesn’t care how many good honest Muslims are killed to do it. Tell me if the Taliban disbanded today how long Canada would and for that matter NATO stay? A year maybe two then our people would demand they return as WE DON"T WANT AFGHANISTAN. Oh and nice touch with the non-violent words to bad that never works in this world.


    By 1992 however, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the regime began to crumble. Food and fuel shortages undermined the capacities of the Army, and a resurgence of factionalism split the regime between Khalq and Parcham supporters. A few days after it was clear that Najibullah had lost control, his army commanders and governors arranged to turn over authority to resistance commanders and local notables throughout the country. Joint councils or shuras were immediately established for local government in which civil and military officials of the former government were usually included. In many cases prior arrangements for transferring regional and local authority had been made between foes. On March 18, Najibullah announced his willingness to resign, and on April 17, as his government fell apart, he tried to escape but was stopped at Kabul Airport by Dostum' forces. He then took refuge at the United Nations mission, where he remained until 1995. A group of Parchami generals and officials declared themselves an interim government for the purpose of handing over power to the mujahideen of which it leader was Ahmad Shah Massoud.

  70. Bohemian Grove Club Member from Canada writes: Syed Abbas from Toronto: After the fall of the Russians we no longer needed him the US got what they wanted at the time (to embarrass the Russians like they did to the US in Vietnam). The US congress cut funding to Afghanistan hence why we should not cut an run again on them, and is why we will stay and fight for them as we see what happened the last time. Look when we started to giving the same weapons to Afghans as our troops use this should tell you we are going no where, but it doesn’t, why?
  71. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Bohemian: Hi

    " ... Look when we started to giving the same weapons to Afghans as our troops use this should tell you we are going no where ..."

    Actually, the Talibs have superior weapons to the Canadian soldiers. Hekmetyar got the best and the latest paid for by the Saudis, now those arms are stashed away in the caves.

    Canadians have outdated guns and carriers, plus no knowledge of the terrain and long supply lines. Guess who will win if the war lasts 20 years. I am not betting on Nato. Soon, Iran will start arming the Northern Alliance again. With Pakistan out of the picture, goodbye Republican plans.
  72. Bohemian Grove Club Member from Canada writes: Syed Abbas from Toronto: Your Islamic terrorist propaganda is showing, the Canadian Army just updated their weapons less then 2 years ago with the newest version of the C7/M16 which is accurate up to 300 yards ( i.e. will put a bullet between your eyes no problem at 300 yards). The main stay of the Taliban is the AK-47 accurate only to less then 100 yards. Wake up Syed your an Islamic terrorist supporter hiding in Canada because you know going to Pakistan will on get you shot by a US bullet, just admit it and move on your a want a be, plan and simple.
  73. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Bohemian:

    " .... you know going to Pakistan will on get you shot by a US bullet, just admit it and move on your a want a be, plan and simple..."

    Was there 6 times last year. Loved every time. However, it is your types who piss in their pants before leaving Canada.

    last year in San Diego a colleague of your types refused to go to Singapore. Was afraid that there are Muslims. We had to send a Chinese American. I see your bravado extends to keyboarding.

    Muslims do not fear bullets. But when we see that your types are even scared of nail cutters, we laugh, because we know that half of the battle is already won.

    Cheers
  74. Geoffrey May from Canada writes: Did anyone read Pakistan's new PM, Yousaf Raza Gillani's opinion piece in yesterdays Washington Post ?I wish him luck.
  75. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:
    Geoffrey May: Greetings

    " ....Did anyone read Pakistan's new PM, Yousaf Raza Gillani's opinion piece in yesterdays Washington Post ?I wish him luck. .."

    Many thanks for the tip. Here is the link.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/29/AR2008042902472.htm

    An intelligent thoughtful piece. It must be giving the Republicans sleepless nights, with the finger-pointings - who lost Pakistan?
  76. Brendan Caron from vancouver, Canada writes: Sayed abass. Still lying and pretending to be the nice guy. He is ridiculous but if he is able to take your mind off focus for a moment then he has succeeded and his ridiculousness might score him some virgins in the next life. What a pathetic piece of human waste. Thanks for the great read guys.
  77. Gary Thomson from Canada writes: You would think that with the practice they've had, a plot to kill a leader concieved in Pakistan would have been more effective.
  78. Random Observer from GTA, Canada writes: M. S From Edmonton from Canada, how about you read the post above to see what issues are being discussed and see relevance of the post. I have issues with few statements Syed has made so far in post. These are:

    1. The topic is Pakistan providing support/sanctuary to terrorist to destabilize the region. His trying to link that with West, Israel problem, or US troops in Middle East is his usual smoke screen. I have asked him repeatedly to stay on topic. Pakistan support for terrorist organization has little to do with ME issues, except that they choose to provide support to OBL

    2. Other issue is his claim that Pakistan did Canada any favor. Pakistan and US had a mutual problem when Soviet were in Afghanistan. Pakistan got US to fund and support a large part of their proxy war effort and both Pakistan and US gained. Pakistan did not do us any favor, instead they got billions in funding from US. Transition to Taliban was Pakistan’s need to build Islamic states around it’s border.

    3. The biggest issue I have with his negative view of Canada and using G&M platform to spout his propaganda. He choose to come to Canada as per his other post. If he would rather be in Pakistan, then make us all happy and go back there. Let us see how much “free speech” he can exercise in Pakistan.

    As to terrorism in general, my view is that no kind of terrorism should be supported. Canada choose to participate in Afghanistan and I am proud of our armed forces and what they are doing there. Canada also choose not to participate in Iraq and that was a very good decision also.
  79. Richard Roskell from Canada writes: Random Observer,

    1. Based on years of observation, "the topic" of any post on the G&M forum is what the commenter wishes it to be. Neither you nor I nor anyone else gets to direct the discussion. Say what you want as often as you want; but that doesn't mean that others have to follow your wishes.

    2. It's incorrect to state that events which happen in the Middle East are of no concern to Pakistan. As a sovereign nation, Pakistan gets to determine for itself where its interests lie. Acting globally according to their interests is precisely how the U.S., Britain, France, Canada et al behave: why would you deny Pakistan that same right?

    If the U.S. and NATO can make war in an impoverished, backward nation on the other side of the globe, adjacent to Pakistan's borders, then clearly Pakistan is likewise justified in extending its influence anywhere it wishes.

    3. So the new criteria for being permitted to remain in Canada is how closely a person's views conform to your own? I think not.

    My views aren't the same as Syed's on some matters, but I welcome different perspectives from other cultures on how to make Canada an even better place than it is now. Is Canada so weak, our society's stability so tenuous, that the mere expression of an alternative view would destroy it? Clearly, no.

    In my view, if anyone has an opinion on how Canadians can improve their country and society, bring it on! Let's have a vigorous debate on the advantages and disadvantages of the alternatives. A wise society would cherry pick the best that every other culture, society and government has to offer, and incorporate it in their own way of life.
  80. K K from Toronto, Canada writes: In my personal opinion the recent report from CIA on tribal area (FATA) and attack on Karzai is directly related to Islamabad's deal with militias in tribal belt. It is seen as a threat to Americans and other occupying forces long term strategy.
  81. K K from Toronto, Canada writes: Pakistan's Moment
    We Will Fight Terrorism -- Our Way

    By Yousaf Raza Gillani
    Wednesday, April 30, 2008; Page A19
    Washingtonpost

    updated URL:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/29/AR2008042902472.html

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