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Corruption eats away at Afghan government

DOUG SAUNDERS

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 3:38 PM EDT 06/05/08

In a series of interviews with British and U.S. diplomats, Doug Saunders discovers how senior officials in Kabul profit from their country's plight ...Read the full article

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  1. CD W from Canada writes: "Gambling in Casablanca? I am shocked!"
  2. Sev England from Calgaristan, Canada writes: It is in the culture.
  3. Richard Roskell from Canada writes: And to follow on CD W's witty reference, it's time to round up the usual suspects.
  4. p m from Canada writes: HMMM..this is well known..is endemic..has been going on for years.

    Gee..our politicians must know about it...or they are REALLY stupid

    So..how come we, as a country are still there 'supporting' this.

    Maybe, just maybe, some of our politicians are "receiving benefits"?

    Otherwise...why are we there?
  5. William Gloucester from Canada writes: Hear that Syed? Looks like G&M's most prolific poster's spin on the trans formative effects of Islam is a bunch of hot air. The society was infamously corrupt under the Taliban, and now, not surprisingly, old habits are dying hard. I'm sure glad that I live in the west, free from the corruption that has plagued every Islamo-fascist kleptocracy.
  6. Chris E. from vancouver, Canada writes: What we in the West call 'corruption' is part of the fabric of life in Asia Minor and Central Asia.

    Before holding everyone up to our standard, we should appreciate that environmental conditions, sociological and otherwise, are different there, and customs and traditions reflect that.

    We in the West evolved our standards of morality, law, and societal norms in a unique way, that suited our survival. It took thousands of years to evolve into the way we are, and we should not expect to suddenly impose that on a people who are vastly different from us.
  7. Duncan Munro from Canada writes:
    The Canadian Army is fighting and dying to protect this narcostate, which is the world's no.1 source of heroin while the RCMP is fighting to keep Afghani heroin out of Canada --so Canadian taxpayers are paying to support the export of heroin to Canada...and paying the RCMP to keep it out of Canada! This is how the CONservatives are spending our tax dollars. I'll bet every drug dealer in Canada is donating every spare nickel they have to support Harpo's Afghanistan narcoexport assistance policy. Jeeze, what an insane world!!!
  8. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: And our brilliant government, with the connivance of the cowardly liberals, have committed us to this rathole for another 3 years. We are being played for suckers.
  9. Byron Rottweiler from Canada writes: Paul Thompson - well said. Our politicians are busy trying to sell this thing to us like we're dumb consumers, instead of their bosses.

    We don't get no respect.
  10. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: I'm just wondering how the chickenhawks are going to spin this one, Byron. I'm sure they'll think of something.
  11. F.T. Ward from Canada writes: Nangarhar is the only province where insurgent incidents are down from last year. Opium production is also down. Sherzai will have a chance of winning the next presidential election (assuming it's not rigged as was the first) as he's known as "governor no-nonsense" and is generally thought to be tough enough (Karzai isn't) to take care of the Taliban. If you don't like being involved in Afghan politics blame the amateurs who got us stuck into this: Hillier, Martin, Harper & Dion.
  12. Robert Rivers from France writes: It all comes down to definitions, what does corruption mean and what criteria are you sing to define it?...

    I learned this in the first year of college and yet those who work in government do not know these principles of a family oriented culture where stability is brought by investing in ones family, giving jobs, money, land or other resources and then only working with those people who are affiliated with your family.

    What we in Canada consider corruption, trading of gifts, bribes or whatever else for access to the higher ups is a normal everyday reality in most parts of the world.

    This was written about in the 1950's and yet they thought walking into a place with an army is going to change the historical processes which have given rise to these modes of thought...

    Note to politicians there are differences in the world these differences are called 'CULTURES' and it takes a little bit of intelligence to know that they are NOT ALL THE SAME not all the same.

    If you are looking for even the most general and simplified explanations for these difference go read Geertz Hofseted or Edward T. Hall basics in cross cultural management strategies... classic literature. What do we pay some politicians for obviously not for their intelligence?
  13. Bert Russell Paradox, BC from Canada writes:
    Why it only seems the other day that our Foreign Minister was being attacked by Liberal supporters who accused him of calling the leader corrupt ...
    Someone said well it depends on what our definition of corrupt is .... better not ask the Liberals as they say "taking care of business, day after day".
  14. W. Mayne from Canada writes: Robert Rivers is very correct, but hasn't Bush promised Harper that "we" can walk in and "westernize" and "democrasize" any country in the middle east or far east, regardless of the culture that is in place.
  15. Brian Williams from Canada writes: Few seem to understand that within every country that is involved in a war, there are profiteers who work to encourage the continuation of the conflict. Wars are primarily about economic power, although sex is often another motivator. Usually, governments do not initiate foreign conflicts; they respond to the self interests of some who have influence with political leaders. Canadians need to look around to identify their countrymen (and women) who are benefiting from our offshore military activity. They are a hard bunch to spot, since the linkages are usually indirect through several degrees of separation. Corruption, profiteering, extortion, double-dealing, etc. - they are all just flavours of the same malady. Some very influential Canadians have caught the disease, else we wouldn't be in Afghanistan.
  16. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: Brian Williams, your statement that wars are primarily about economic power is of course correct, but I found your second point "sex is often another motivator" to be intriguing. Does this mean some misguided fools join the military because they think it will improve their chances with the ladies a la "I just love the sight of a man in uniform?" Surely they don't harbour fantasies of the days of an earlier visitor to A'stan like Ghengis Khan, when women were part of the spoils of war? Or is it sexual repression or frustration being expressed through violence? I think you are on to something, in any case, though I'm not sure what exactly.
  17. David Bakody from Dartmouth, Canada writes: How many time fokes ? "Follow the money" The winds of war is one the greatest money pits known to man.........Dubya is asking for yet another $70 Billion, here in Canada we are running over $1 billion in costs, the Yanks want another $500 million on helicopter overruns, oil profits are going through the roof.........and yes Poppy Crop production is up a whooping 700% from 1200 tons/per year to over 8500! FOLLOW THE MONEY Neo Conservative policies through and through........
  18. Geoffrey May from Canada writes: The article makes it clear that much of what passes in Afghnaistan for government is not the traditional governmnent but exists as a result of the tactics the US chose to employ during the invasion .

    William Gloucester's comment that the Taliban were notoriously corrupt stands alone . My understanding was that the Taliban , for all their extremism, unlike Karzai's government ,were not corrupt and provided security.

    So Canada has spent over $7.5 billion dollars , and sacrificed 83 lives, all to keep in power a government we know to be corrupt .How can anyone be proud about that.
  19. R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    "Despite their alarm at some of these developments, officials from the United States, Britain and Canada all say they are maintaining their support for Mr. Karzai....."

    This article is 5 years, 2 "debates," 81 lives, and BILLIONS of dollars
    TOO LATE!

    It has been very well documented in the UK, Asian, and sometimes American press, that this situation has existed from the beginning, yet the Canadaian media abdicated its responsibility towards the Canadain population concerning informing.........of course the "Brenda Martin" tabloid story, or whatever...was oh, so much more important than wasting innocent lives and billions of Canadian tax dollars!

    Does one actually believe that our invasion/occupation/nation building has a hope in hell of changing this culture?

    With Canadian officials advising at the highest levels in Kabul, how have they allowed the drug business and corruption to continue without a whimper?

    Regardless of the record poppy growth, people are making money-which means transportation and distribution to Iran is unimpeded. Why?

    Where was the Canadian political Official Opposition when the "vote-debate" for extension was transpiring?
    .
  20. Roop Misir from Toronto, Canada writes:
    Sev England from Calgaristan, Canada writes:

    "It is in the culture."

    If in fact Canada subscribes to "multiculturalism", then are we in for the long haul?
  21. Pearls before Swine from Lower Economy, Canada writes: "Inside live the senior officials with top roles in Afghanistan's government, some of whom have amassed fortunes of hundreds of millions of dollars." But hey, they were elected democratically, no?
  22. Kan Tankerous from Tronna, Canada writes: It's nice to get another journalist's perspective. The bubble-head who normally parrots and fawns and slobbers over the military gets tiresome.
  23. Russell Barth from Nepean, Canada writes: let me see if i have this right

    the government our soldiers are supposed to be helping... they are corrupted by poppy money.

    we are encouraged to wear poppies on our lapel, but we are not allowed to grow poppies in our own yard, to help the soldiers, who are getting injured in the Stan, trying to stop the bad guys, who are making money from poppies...

    but we can't legalize the Afgahn poppy trade, because that would piss off Australia and Turkey, who currently hold the market in "legal" poppy production.

    Makes you proud to be a canadian doesn't it.
  24. Anuradha Bose from ottawa, writes: Why are we there propping up a bunch of kleptocrats?
  25. John Percy from Halifax, Canada writes: This is, of course, not news. I have been bothering reporters at this paper for three years to look at this. arthur Kent's wonderful website skyreporter.com has outlined numerous, numerous, numerous cases of rampant corruption. Since Arthur has spent 27 years covering this one country, I lend credence to his reportage. For instance, the current head of the Interior Ministry spent two years in a Nevada prison for heroin trafficking, before being mysteriously released and returned to Afghanistan. The Attorney-General has been repeatedly linked to Taliban warlords and heroin traffickers, and has built a fine new mansion in Kabul on his meagre salary. This is the man who shut down the drug seizures at Kabul airport and attempted to arrest the man in charge of the massive drug seizures flowing out of there. Attorney-General Sabet was a resident of Montreal after being kicked out of the US for drug-related activities, and his wife and children still live there (it's safer) and last I heard were collecting welfare. There is no doubt that our government has been fully aware of this for years but has chosen to turn a blind eye. It's called complicity. Perhaps Bill C-26 should apply to politicians as well, who allow this to continue. It's not only our soldiers who are dying, but our children on the streets who pump this crap into their veins, courtesy of Western politicians who say they are "necessary collateral damage" in the "war on terrorism". And don't think for a moment that our soldiers on the ground in Kandahar aren't aware of this. They deeply resent propping up the Afghan government and Canada's inaction on dealing with the heroin trade.
  26. Ab Irato from Montreal, Canada writes: If we have proof of all this corruption, it seems that we should be contacting our MP's to decide if they want to keep their jobs or enact a public declaration that unless Karzai falls into line and straightens things out, we are out of there.

    Over 80 Canadians should not have died so that a few warlords could become wealthy.

    It's telling that the Afghans believe conditions will return to those of the late 80's once the west leave. They know they can bleed us dry and our poor, naive "leaders" actually think they can change a culture that neither wants nor asked for this change.
  27. John Percy from Halifax, Canada writes: Ab Irato from Montreal, Canada writes: If we have proof of all this corruption, it seems that we should be contacting our MP's to decide if they want to keep their jobs or enact a public declaration that unless Karzai falls into line and straightens things out, we are out of there." Ab, our MPs (from all parties, including my NDP MP) have been made aware of this many times. There has been a concerted effort for three years by committed Canadians to force them to bring this to light. There is another agenda at work here and anyone speaking up is "unpatriotic" and not "supporting our troops" or "soft on terrorism." I have never received a response from MPs on this issue, and never will, until it is politically expedient and in the "best interests of the party" (pick one), or until enough ordinary Canadians scream loud enough for our Parliamentarians to stand up with "righteous indignation at this travesty" or some such pap for a sound bite. So far, nothing, and I expect nothing from our MPs on this issue. They are all complicit in the heroin trade. My son, who spent 11 months in Kandahar, is so angry he could spit whenever our government's involvement is brought up. He went over to Afghanistan to make a difference to the people, and truly loved his role, and the people of Afghanistan. But what he saw there would curl your tongue, and while he is proud of our work there (and so am I), he will never go back, and never support our present government again. And neither will I, and neither should you.
  28. Mr. Justice from Canada writes: YIKES.

    Does this tarnish the image of Afghanistan as a "beacon of democracy" ?
  29. Allan Eizinas from Simcoe, Canada writes: .
    Looks like it would be a lot cheaper and make a lot more sense if we just abandoned these clowns and airlifted those little girls into Canada for an education.
  30. Tanner Hadley from GTA, Canada writes: It's nice for us in the west to be so morally and ethically superior - but are we so different?

    The RCMP investigated the liberals because of the sponsorship scandal.
    The RCMP executed a search warrant against the tories because of election spending.
    The tories are alleged to have offered Chuck Cadman a bribe.
    Brian Mulroney accepted wads of cash and failed to report this income until years later.
    Jean Chretien is said to have known more than disclosed about the sponsorship scandal.

    Isn't our system also rife with corruption?
  31. Kevin Desmoulin from Toronto, Canada writes: It really kinda of goes against every reason why we are in Afghanistan, We are "Fighting" a contrived war so the corruption and heroin production can continued in Afghanistan.
    We are wasting our energy and CFN lives and we taken for fools by the afghanistan government.

    So here is our government with an anti drug strategy helping Afghanistan which source of the world' supply of heroin.
    Just great

    So things have not really gotten any better at all, in fact we are just setting up future Afghanistan to be worse and more corrupt with this money from the west and heroin production and the stock piling of arms.
  32. Mr. Justice from Canada writes: Too bad THIS takes place in the country where CF troops are risking their lives:

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23626338-401,00.html

    . . . That is a VERY backward (nice word) country, folks.
  33. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: Sure Tanner Hadly, there's corruption in our system too, though I've yet to hear of any one politician amassing $300,000,000. So let's bring the troops home, and we will deal with our crooks and the people of A'stan can deal with theirs as they see fit.
  34. Nick Wright from Halifax, Canada writes: William Gloucester: The era of greatest corruption in Afghanistan was before the Taliban, from 1989 (referenced in the article) when the Soviets left, until 1994 when the Taliban came through, ostensibly like a sherriff cleaning up a corrupt town. Interestingly enough, the corrupt and violent warlords displaced by the Taliban were the very ones armed and financed by the Americans in 2001 to fight the Taliban.

    The article makes one slight but important error. In 2001, when President Karzai was a powerless "interim president," the Americans forced him to put "their" warlords in positions of power--often over his strenuous objections.

    Ordinary Afghans regarded these men as war criminals, after their depredations between '89 and '94, and were outraged--and terrified--that the Americans would put them back into power. President Karzai knew at the time that his government would always be distrusted by Afghans as a result and that he would be seen as a puppet.

    The lack of schools mentioned in the article is largely due to the fact that the warlords destroyed them in their fighting for supremacy. The Soviets built schools, roads, power stations and other infrastructure, but the warlords destroyed it all.

    After 2001, the Americans quietly allowed them to keep their arms caches, and continued to give them money. They are still building up their fortunes, and waiting for the foreigners to leave so they can resume fighting among each other as before.

    The Afghan people are far more afraid of the warlords than they are of the Taliban, and want the foreigners to stay as their only protection. If the civil war resumes, the people will likely side with the Taliban once again as the least corrupt and lawless option.
  35. Raymond Durrani from Ajax, Canada writes: PM from Canada write, "Maybe, just maybe, some of our politicians are "receiving benefits"?

    PM: There is no maybe, 50% of the aid given to that country by the government comes back to Canada via corrupt means. 80% of the aid given to NGOs for that country comes back to Canada via corruptive ways. There is one good thing though. At least it comes back to our country - that is beside the point that whoever gets is part of the corruption.

    You figure it out now yourself as to how it happens. Why are all these NGOs sitting in Ottawa hire lobbyists with all that money - to get them money from CIDA - a place where every government play hocus pocus with money - Liberal Mafia has been the bad one.

    What do you think the government does with so called "Trade Missions"? It is form of paying some cronies who will help them get re-elected.

    Ambassadors to other countries - they get over a million dollars - depending on a country, which is not accounted for in any form or shape. In other words, the Ambassador doesn't have to give any report as to how it was spent - if it is not corruption then what it is?
  36. San Tomas from Kelowna, Canada writes: After reading this article, I am really ticked off (for lack of a better statement) with our eunuch politicians in Ottawa who are allowing our hard earned dollars to be wasted on this futile effort of Afghanistan. Do they really believe Canada and the other UN sponsored military are making any difference in this corrupt culture? Perhaps it is the strong lobby of the arms manufacturers that is keeping Canadian troops in Afghanistan.
    Perhaps we, voters, should be sending a strong message to all of our MP's to end this farce. We should not be putting our noses in where they don't belong ( unlike the U.S who are the cause of many of the world's political problems.)
  37. The Iconoclast from Canada writes: hris E. from vancouver, Canada writes: We in the West evolved our standards of morality, law, and societal norms in a unique way....

    That explains why we can conquer and enslave the rest of the world and still come out holier-than-thou.
  38. F.T. Ward from Canada writes: Afghanistan is no more corrupt than Canada is. They just lack the sophistication that graduation from law or business schools give our bandits. The taxes our government spends to build up the egos of the politicians, burueacrats and generals annually would buy Afghanistan a hundred times over.
  39. John Percy from Halifax, Canada writes: This is a clear case of circular logic. Warlords control the heroin. Many warlords side with the Taliban. Heroin goes through Kabul airport unrestricted and past the eyes of the Afghan government which receives money, and is, in many cases, deeply complicit in the trade. Money goes to warlords who give it to the Taliban, who buy guns from Western arms merchants. Taliban use those guns to kill our soldiers who are propping up the Afghan government who say they want us there to protect them. All the while they are an integral cog in the chain of drug money. Troops know this, Western governments know this, but it's all the "cost of doing business", and if a few people die, well...
  40. Richard Soley from writes: This is not news, it is not a suprize and the only surprize is the folks who think it is. In any situation of conflict the option for coruption is always there and exploited to greater or lessor degrees. The NATO forces use who and what they can in order to start the process of turning around the country for the average person and if the corruption exists it exists because there is a market for it, read pakistan and beyond. Untill the international community takes steps to remove the profit from drugs will the market forces make this activity unrewarding. In the meantime our soldiers are doing a hard dirty job to contain the use of this country by terrorists and profiteers who would love to see this mission fail. Support our soldiers, This is not news just sad information in the confusion of war.
    Proud of our soldiers and our efforts in Afgahanistan.
  41. Namys From Canada from Toronto, Canada writes: Our efforts in Afghanistan - to bring democracy - is very noble and stupid. We want to establish a democracy similar to ours through nation building. And this effort is doomed. There is just no other way. It is naive to think we can extrapolate our political, legal, social system based on values of this country to somebody who still lives in the stone age. What this article calls corruption and lawlessness is the normal modus (or modi? correct me if my Latin is not perfect) vivendi and operandi of the majority of the third world countries. Do not follow the footsteps of Bush who in his stubborn idiocy tried and predictably failed to mimic American way democracy in Iraq and 50 other countries. Leave them alone, lead by example, take good care of your own people, others will follow.
  42. John John from Canada writes: Another example of that democracy is learned not imposed. Wasn't the president elected by his people? Can people vote him down? What GWB will say?
  43. J Law from Canada writes: I think our government's only concern in Afganistan is that the government they support there is not harbouring a dangerous element, such as el queada, that is working to do us harm.
    If you think the USA, Canada or any other western nation cared who was governing Afganistan or how, before the Taliban allowed el queada to live and plan attacks against us you are a little niave.
  44. Johnny Canuck from Canada writes: The Afghan UN/Nato mission was started to bring democracy to Afghanistan. That is why food aid is being provide, Afghan schools are being built, Taliban terrorist are being eliminated and Nato authorities are showing Afghan officials how to govern in a democracy. Things take time to change in a backward country like Afghanistan. The Afghan mission is expected to take years & years before Afghan democracy is considered free and fair for all Afghans. My bet is Canada will be their to help every step of the way..
  45. Gary Casey from Canada writes: F.T. Ward from Canada writes: Afghanistan is no more corrupt than Canada is. They just lack the sophistication that graduation from law or business schools give our bandits. The taxes our government spends to build up the egos of the politicians, burueacrats and generals annually would buy Afghanistan a hundred times over.

    Gary Casey writes:You got that right. My guess is that we get to see a small amount of the corruption that goes on in Canada. Liberals and Conservatives seem to be all alike.
    The Federal Government of Canada mismanaged and gave away to foreigners the greatest natural food supply on the planet. i.e The fish stocks of The Grand Banks. You can be sure they didn't give away this resource, worth untold billions, and got nothing in return. Of course this is just one example!

    Still, we put up with it. WHY?
  46. anonymous contributor from Canada writes: another bright shining lie our youth is being sacrificed to. canadians have to think hard before entering a conflict that has NOTHING to do with our safety. we're there as a committment to the warlords in washington, d.c.
    and, of course, we have the robots; we're bringing democracy, building infrastructure, ridding the flower of afghani womanhood from the slavery of the burkha, schoolchildren throwing flowers, the new generation of love. that's right boys and girls, we're proudly paving the way for a corrupt, hated and despicable mafia.
    when will we ever learn?
  47. Brendan Caron from vancouver, Canada writes: Good story. Now that there is meat on the bones let's see how it's prepared. Actually a good news story. It is better to know than it is to point fingers although, in Afghanistan, you could get away with it when dealing with the moneyed classes. Just as talking to the Taliban is primarily media inspired so, too, is this corruption story media inspired. It gets results. It gives people something to incorporate into their thinking. It is not as bad as it seems because Afghans, for the most part, are honest, hard-working people which makes it difficult to live inside corruption. It doesn't matter who destroyed the schools. They have to be built again so that they can inspire Afghan youth to better lives. This is nothing new. Everyone knows that it is the paradigm of poor, third world countries. However, Afghanistan does have some downs that other countries in their position don't. Mainly opium and its derivatives. Big money there. Bigger than un-schooled people could imagine. The follow up that this is going to engender ought to help.
  48. Uncle Fester from The Old Rome, Ont., Canada writes: If our last Canadian government was brought down by corruption, why should we be surprised that a puppet dictator's government in a war torn country is corrupt? Maybe we should wonder why we got involved in the first place.
  49. Roop Misir from Toronto, Canada writes: Mr. Justice from Canada writes: YIKES.

    'Does this tarnish the image of Afghanistan as a "beacon of democracy" ?'

    Mr. Justice has a point.

    Here in Canada politicians had plans for a "gun registry".

    Initial cost--a few millions dollars.
    Actual expenditure-- a few billions!

    Now can politicians show taxpayers where is the "registry" ?

    Talk about a culture of corruption in Afghanistan?

    Think again!

  50. Orest Zarowsky from Toronto, Canada writes: Why did the Taliban come to be in the first place? And how did they manage to take over the country? Well that would be the corruption and violence of the warlords and drug dealers that were running the shop after the Soviets left. The same crew the US put back in place back in 2001. We see the fruits of that now. But these are "staunch allies" of ours, in the "War on Terror". We'll just quietly shelve that "War on Drugs" thing in this particular case. The fact that the heroin being exported to the west is a bigger problem than the Taliban or al Quiada ever were is, of course, irrelevent. Besides which, look at all the money being made from the drug business. In both the legal and illegal spheres. And this is what we are sending our troops off to die for? Never mind the billions we are spending to do so.
  51. Nick Wright from Halifax, Canada writes: Brendan Caron said: "It doesn't matter who destroyed the schools."

    This would be true if the people who destroyed the schools no longer had the means to do so again if new schools are built. Unfortunately, many of the people who destroyed the schools actually are in a position to do it all again, with the backing of the Americans. Afghans know it, and want us there to protect them from their current rulers, as much as from anyone else.

    In a real way, the biggest threat to Afghanistan if the foreigners remove their armies is renewed fighting among the warlords for control of Kabul. The Taliban will be just another warring faction.
  52. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: I agree with you on one point Brendan: "It is not as bad as it seems". It is likely worse than it seems.
  53. Wilma De Bruyn from Toronto, Canada writes: Corruption-it is a Global disease. Have you ever asked Stockwell Day
    how he got into his position? And where is the individual that was in
    his position before him??Russia??How about the "Sponsorship Scandal", RCMP Scandal, Enron, Black, and many more in the Securities Industries and the Banks which we never hear about in the news. We only have to check our own back yard of Canada and our neighbors of the us of a. What filters through the Credit Unions throughout Canada would not surprise me either. All provincially controlled. The "Just Us" system are the only ones that knows everyone's business including the RCMP. Canada is right up there with the rest of them. Coming to Canada SUPER HIGHWAYS, SIX LANES AND ALL TOLLED. What do you call Municipal Tax, Provincial Tax, Federal Tax and Income Tax and car ownership tax? It's called
    corruption as well!!! (Check out Radio Alchymy.com and Bill 51). Are
    majority of canadian asleep about the shadow government-wake up
    people!!!The shadow government, the world elite are building the Globe for them, not for the commoners of this country. BC Super highway, 500 million for an Arts centre, discussing a new dome roof for the Olympics, where do you think all that money comes from??
  54. Zando Lee from Vancouver, Canada writes: .....we as Canadians are forced to subscribe to the maintenance of this den of iniquity....the dues we pay with the life and limb of our finest...nice goin' Stevie and Stephie.....
  55. Alberto Bayo from Canada writes: Unless Canada gets a BIG piece of the Poppy/Opium/Heroin action...we should walk away. Why should Karzai's clan and the CIA get all the loot?
  56. Mr. Justice from Canada writes: Tribal warlords, drug chieftains, and religious nutbars are among those who get elected to the Afghan Parliament. Do they constitute a majority ?

    . . . and then there's Ms. Joya, a member of Parliament who stands up for democracy and individual rights, who gets death threats.

    She is a hero. Too bad she is so badly outnumbered in Parliament:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4606174.stm

    NOTE: Wingnuts won't like this news story, above.
  57. Ted Andrews from Canada writes:
    TROOPS OUT NOW!
  58. dump harper he's threatening the tax free status of fraserinstitute and churches from Canada writes:

    stevie clements and harper's top cop are going to straighten out intra vein druggies in first world rich Canadian cities ?

    Are they practicing using RCMP , CICIS , CIA , FBI , DEA , INTERPOL , MI5 , World Bank , G8 , NATO , U.N. , U.S. Marines , U.S. Army , U.S. Air Force , Karzai's cops , Karzai's commandos , Karzai's army , Pakistani Reformer M.P. , McKay , Bernier , Canada Special Forces with Green Berets , Canada's unified forces ....... etc to find a few crooked men amongst 35 million starving people ?

    Dion no wonder you have trouble finding the right words . Lend stevie boy Bob Rae to help clean up this mess ?

    Shella Fraser : Stop slapping harper and sharpen your pencils . This is the worst movie I have watched since President Nixon straightened out the hippies ?
  59. anonymous contributor from Canada writes: wilma finger do - so you're saying there's corruption everywhere and we should just accept it? so if someone did the number in your swimming pool, just push it out of the way and let's get everyone in there and we'll have a ball.
    i won't be having dinner at your place any time soon.
  60. ah sails from Canada writes: This is a shocking story...how could a very poor 3rd world country run by warlords, divided along tribal lines, invaded by different foreigners every decade or two and whose main industry is the poppy growing / opium / heroin business, suffer from corruption...they don't even see it as corrupt..the entire system, social, economic, political runs on baksheesh, no, it's not like here and will NEVER be
  61. Bill McDonald from Canada writes: As always, the naysayers, the conspiracy theoricst, and the worst, those that decry the ''sacrifce'' of our soldiers, as if, they were, in the slightest way whatsoever, involved in that sacrifice.

    Absolutely, problems exist. But after 50 odd posts, there is not one credible solution offered. We are talking in excess of 30 Million people in this country. The western world is now involved. What would we be saying if we just abandoned the country, and its millions of innocent citizens, to the same level of anarchy and terror that they have been living with for the past 30-odd years.

    The above posters are also likely to be the ones that walk by a burning building, saying ''it's not my problem". Or ignore a woman being assulted using the same logic. Thankfully, my Canada, and my government, are contributing to the solution, however long and painful that process might be.

    It may take a generation, but, if in the end, there is a functioning, civilized country it will be worth it. The alternative - to leave and to have solved nothing - is cowardly and unbecoming of our great nation.
  62. Zando Lee from Vancouver, Canada writes: ..... "Mr. Karzai's acquiescence to violent and deeply corrupt men is increasingly considered unsustainable."....this is a very chilling comment....maybe Karzi is himself corrupt.....
  63. Raymond Durrani from Ajax, Canada writes: Ted Andrews from Canada writes:
    "TROOPS OUT NOW!"

    Ok, Ted - what will they do here? Yes, right now we do put them to work in Frederick, St. John to manage flood but that is a very samll job.

    I am agree with the mission but not the way it is managed and run. I get very depressed every time we get our soldiers enjured or killed. Those are the moments, I wish I was there - alongside them. Why don't they use the newly trained Afghan soldiers to lead and stay way behind to protect them rather than leading the way and faceing these roadside bombs.

    You have to call this Ambassador from Kabul. He is not familiar with the people, the country and the job. He is inexperienced and is not helping the Afghan government in cleaning up the corruption.

    Some time I wonder about managing the affairs of our aid and money we provide to that government - if it is being wasted through corruption, we should stop puting good money after the bad.

    Get this Ambassador out from there, please.
  64. Yvonne Wackernagel from Woodville, Canada writes: "Chris E. from vancouver, Canada writes: What we in the West call 'corruption' is part of the fabric of life in Asia Minor and Central Asia. "

    Would to god that eyes were given us to see ourselves as others see us.

    'Corruption' in the West is just at a higher standard than anything which is going on in the East. Just look at Iraq; invaded on a pack of Lies, hundreds of thousands MURDERED and/or displaced, left homeless and sick; even over 4000 young Americans dead, 26,000 maimed for life. ALL BASED ON LIES. Not to mention the Trade with Canada - under NAFTA, the Americans must get our oil at a cheaper rate whilst we pay through the nose at the gas pumps.

    DO YOU THINK STEPHEN HARPER IS HONEST?

    AND, OF COURSE, WE CANNOT SPEAK OF ISRAEL/PALESTINE AND HOW HARPER SUPPORTS THE ATROCITIES -because of who contributed to his election campaign?
  65. anonymous contributor from Canada writes: bob mcdonald - you know who contributes? those who oppose the war in this corruption are cowards?
    i don't know what anyone has sacrificed by their post. i do know you are the unpleasant end of 26 ft. of intestine.
    "unbecoming our great nation." drums and bugles.
  66. The NeoCynic from Cayman Islands writes: The only Canadians who could legitimately be in support of this war are those who benefit most from our largest import from Afghanistan, heroin: junkies.

    Has the Canadian Forces dropped their recruiting criteria so low as to allow junkies to join?

    Imagine, entire battalions of needle-waving soldiers storming Taliban positions screaming for a fix. Only then would we begin to see real progress.

    It would make Dieppe look like a tea party in comparison.
  67. Ontario Man from Canada writes: I agree with some of the posters here. Corruption is just as common in Canada & USA, it is just performed with more finess.

    Corporate crime conducted by funneling billions of dollars to privileged lawyers, accountants, CEOs is very common.

    Just look at Enron and Nortel.

    It's ok for the fat cats at the top to do it, it only becomes a problem when everyday joe tries to get away with it.
  68. Karunaratne Jeyatilleke from Ottawa, Canada writes: CD W from Canada writes: "Gambling in Casablanca? I am shocked!"

    > Good one, friend. :)
  69. Karunaratne Jeyatilleke from Ottawa, Canada writes: Ontario Man from Canada writes: I agree with some of the posters here. Corruption is just as common in Canada & USA, it is just performed with more finess.

    Corporate crime conducted by funneling billions of dollars to privileged lawyers, accountants, CEOs is very common.

    > You forgot the consultants!!
  70. Comments closed, censored, deleted or made to disappear from Mini Bushland, Canada writes: "Corruption eats away at Afghan government". Meanwhile, International Herald Tribune reports, today: "U.S. may send more troops to Afghanistan (by Steven Lee and Thom Shanker)... "The U.S. troop level could rise more than 20 percent next year to make up for a shortfall in contributions from European allies, senior Bush administration officials said." -- We're "winning", and big!
  71. Richard Roskell from Canada writes: The Western effort to remove Mr. Karzai from power is picking up steam. That effort has exactly ZERO to do with Mr. Karzai's corruption, and everything to do with the fact that he is his own man: he will not dance to the master's tune in perfect time. Mr. Karzai is an Afghan first and foremost, and acts like it.

    Is Karzai corrupt by our standards? Certainly. Is the Afghan government corrupt by our standards. Yes indeed. Is Afghan society as a whole corrupt by our standards. Well, duh! Westerners have to understand, that "corruption" isn't an aberration or a crime to Afghans: it's a fully accepted and understood part of life. It's how they, and hundreds of millions of other people in undeveloped countries, do business.

    Replacing Mr. Karzai with someone else will also have exactly ZERO effect on the corruption that exists in Afghan society. Getting rid of corruption in Afghanistan will take as long as modernizing their society as a whole: which is to say, many lifetimes.

    Mr. Karzai will come under increasing pressure from the West as his term ends. His anointed successor is former U.S. ambassador to Iraq and the U.N., Mr. Zalmay Khalilzad, a U.S. citizen.

    As the Afghan election draws near you'll see an increasing number of media pieces, all of them describing the current president in negative terms. The news isn't that Mr. Karzai and his administration is corrupt; by our standards that is a given and was always the case. The news is that the West is again rigging the Afghan election, and interfering in the democratic process of a sovereign nation. Journalists such as Doug Saunders seem happy to participate in that effort. I guess it's easier than digging up the truth.

  72. Trillian Rand from Canada writes: A nice historical document outlining what the rest of the world has known for many years. If you go to Google and search "Afghanistan corruption" you will find thousands of articles outlining situations that encompass almost every activity in Afghanistan, from the lowest to the highest.

    That we are supporting a corrupt government has been known from day one. That there is no alternative has been known from day two. That things will not change for decades is assumed. So, to those who ask, "Why are we in Afghanistan?" the answer is the same as it has always been. We are there to support the current government in its efforts to rebuild the country.

    As I've often said, we are not there to reshape the country into our own image. We are not there to assert our moral values or to make Afghanistan into a tiny piece of Canada. We are there to support the current government.

    Like us, the Afghan people can go to the polls and elect a different leader if they wish. Like us, they can exercise their favour or disfavour with government policy at the ballot box.

    We are not there to fight what we believe is corruption. We are not there to persuade the Afghan people to fight corruption. We are there to support the government in its struggle to rebuild the country in its own image, whatever that is and no matter what we think of it.
  73. Mahatma Gandhi from Calgary, Canada writes: "This is not news" ... "Canada is just as corrupt" ... "This is just a political ploy" ...

    Rubbish. The stark reality is that Karzai and his cronies were put there by the US, and have been protected and supported by NATO. Almost 100 Canadian soldiers who courageously committed to defend their country with their lives have died torn to shreds on dusty Afghan roads trying to protect Karzai's miserable regime. To their shame, some Canadians who bought into the political scheme that brought about this situation now try to obfuscate the issue.

    The solution is very simple. Let our soldiers come home to their families, and let Karzai and his gang of thieves take care of themselves.
  74. Byron Rottweiler from Canada writes: This sordid mess is no coincidence, as many of you have discovered - the original American plan to invade Afghanistan on the cheap involved using the 'Northern Alliance' or United Islamic Front for the Salvation of Afghanistan. You can thank the usual NeoCon geniuses for this strategy, as well as credit the USA for destroying the secular government of Afghanistan which existed previously.

    Yes, that's right, dear folks. Women went to school back in the day, but that didn't suit America, oh no. American leadership didn't approve of the pro-soviet government in Kabul, so destroyed it by arming Islamic militants. (billions of dollars were sent to train these terrorists).

    Now you say, Canada has to stay there in order for girls to get an education?!? Forgive me, but you are both naive and stupid if you swallow that myth.

    Here's what Amnesty International had to say recently about the 'new, improved' Afghanistan that we have created:

    'Government security bodies committed human rights violations with impunity. There was little reform of judicial, law enforcement and security agencies. Women continued to face violence. Human rights defenders, including women, were targeted and killed. It became increasingly dangerous to speak out against human rights abuses and for justice'

    'Violence against women and girls in Afghanistan is pervasive; few women are exempt from the reality or threat of violence. Afghan women and girls live with the risk of; abduction and rape by armed individuals; forced marriage; being traded for settling disputes and debts; and face daily discrimination from all segments of society as well as by state officials' (2005)
  75. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: "We are there to support the gov't in it's struggle to rebuild the country in it's own image." That doesn't sound like a cause worth dying for, Trillian Rand, as that same goernment seems mostly concerned with lining it's own pockets.
  76. Richard Soley from writes: The misinformation in these columns is astounding, this mission was not set up to bring democracy to Afghanistan it started as retaliation for the attack on New York. Al Queda was harbored by the Taliban and Afghanistan was a base for terrorists. As a result of repeated attacks on the west by Al Queda and it's minnions in England, Spain, Africa, Middle east and America and the resulting efforts to contain these extremists we are there to prevent further attacks world wide. If the efforts are surrounded by problems they are still efforts and the lack of knowledge by so many who seem to think that by ignoring the reality it will make it go away is laughable. If you don't like the efforts perhaps you would feel different if one day your commuter train is the subject of attack in Toronto, or there is another hijacking used to bomb a civic centre, somehow you people that disagree have a very limited view of the world. Thank your Gods that there are people that see further and are willling to do something about the problems other than just critize for the sake of seeing their name in print. Proud as hell of the Canadians in Afghanistan, proud that we are trying and supporting our allies in that effort.
  77. Byron Rottweiler from Canada writes: Now, regarding Canada, democracy and corruption - recent polls show that a majority of Canadians are opposed to the mission extension to 2011. Result? Our 'democratic' system froze us out of the equation, and implemented the extension.

    Some of you warn that our politicians will pay for ignoring our will, but you may not yet realize that they have already outmaneuvered us - since both the Libs and Cons support the mission extension, you can't vote against one to spite the other, can you? Gotcha!

    The only meaningful way for Canadians to have their fair say, IMHO, is to hold a national referendum. That way we can cut the corrupt politicians of Canada out of the equation.

    What say you folks? Wanna take back our country from the lying politicians, or let them decide for us? Which is it? Let's grow some spine and demand our right to vote on this issue!!
  78. crime of the century from This is not America, Canada writes:
    "Inside live the senior officials with top roles in Afghanistan's government, some of whom have amassed fortunes of hundreds of millions of dollars."

    I see democracy is working out just fine in afghanistan, just like big daddy america... corrupt to the core.
  79. Neocon Destroyer from Anywhere But Alberta, Canada writes: The "free market system" is corrupt to its very core. That's not news. What else would one expect when such a system is artificially transplanted on to a broken nation and maintained by military force? Can one expect any other sort of outcome? The "corruption" in Afghanistan pales compared to the corruption that exists today in the Western nations. Just look at the Military Industrial Complex that is awash in trillions of dollars of corruption. Enough said.
  80. Nick Wright from Halifax, Canada writes: I'm afraid "Troops Out!" isn't going to help Afghans one bit, not to mention its effect on NATO. It is a deeply flawed alliance, but it has great value and wouldn't survive an "every country for itself" debacle in Afghanistan.

    Put simply: "We broke it; we own it"; to just leave Afghans to the consequences of our interference in their civil war in 2001 would be criminal on our part. I agree with Raymond Durrani (a noble family name in Afghanistan); what's needed is a better strategy.

    The best that can be done there is a foreign-contained situation that keeps the country from lapsing back into civil war, and prevents any one faction from having absolute power.

    The article's headline, "Corruption eats away at Afghan government," is misleading in that it implies a healthy government with a bit of a problem. The rest of the article makes it clear that this is simply not the case. The American-imposed Karzai government has almost no credibility with Afghans. They didn't "elect" a government, they were told who to vote for by their local leaders--what did ordinary Afghans know about democracy? Only 10% can read in Kandahar.

    No one wants the Taliban back in full control either, with their repressive ways. However, President Karzai knows that a "bigger tent" government that includes current insurgent representatives--probably not the relatively small core of fanatical religious fundamentalists from Pakistan--would have a better chance of stablising the country, with support from foreign armed forces and genuine political and financial help. It will be a very tricky balancing act, since credibility is everything, but I think we have to try. Just keep M. Bernier at home!
  81. Byron Rottweiler from Canada writes: Anyway, for you Utopians out there how erroneously believe that we have brought some kind of justice to Afghanistan, it is time for you to accept that we have in fact been suckered into supporting a hopelessly corrupt, Islamist regime, and that the prospects of your neo-colonial project are dim indeed.

    Whether you prove to be foolish enough to continue your support for a truly lost cause is your business, but you are fools for doing so. You're not brave, you're not principled - you're just foolish, that's all.

    The ineluctable truth is that our overbearing and ignorant neighbors to the South have once again managed to make a freakish mess out of things, and there's NO WAY we can fix this problem. The US is about to make it even worse, if you follow the news.

    I'm not even touching the Pakistan problem, but you know damn well it's far too late - we need to pull out and take care of our citizens at home. The people of Afghanistan? Let the Americans handle their own disaster, as they did in Vietnam, and are doing in Iraq.
    Canada should have no further part in this evil charade.
  82. Byron Rottweiler from Canada writes: Nick Wright from Halifax - dear sir. We're going to leave Afghanistan soon. Don't you get it? We don't 'own' Afghanistan, much as you might be tempted to confuse that neo-colonial phrase with an intelligent insight.

    The moral thing to do, sir, is to leave them alone. Our presence is harming them, not helping them.
  83. Byron Rottweiler from Canada writes: Nick Wright from Halifax - also with due respect for your opinion, you may recall that precisely the same false logic was applied to Vietnam when it was clear that the American counter-insurgency was failing.

    The gov. of Vietnam was corrupt beyond repair, fueled by years of massive cash infusions from America. More and more Vietnamese were being slaughtered and displaced, with no realistic end in sight.

    Finally, and only because of mounting casualties and unrest at home, the voracious American military monster withdrew back to it's lair, and Americans soon forgot all about Vietnam, as they did about the estimated 2 million dead Vietnamese.
    All this because America decided not to respect international law and allow a general election to unify Vietnam in 1954, because it was clear that communists would win the election.
    Sound familiar? A fair election, if it results in a government the US doesn't like, gets violently overthrown.

    The big question no one seems to be asking, is - what gives the US the right to bomb any country it doesn't like? Isn't it time the world took some serious action to put a leash on the US? Before they start another world war maybe......or at least destroy the entire Middle East.
  84. Trillian Rand from Canada writes: Paul Thompson: and you'll notice I didn't indicate supporting a corrupt government was a cause worth dying for. However, it is the reason NATO, the US, and two successive Canadian governments have used to justify our presence in Afghanistan.

    Those who avidly support our presence there must surely understand corruption exists in Afghanistan. They must also understand our mandate prevents us from ending it.

    War is the ultimate solution. We should all understand the situation in Afghanistan if we are going to support our government's efforts or oppose them. Largely, support has been given blindly and often based on little more than voting preference. Given that such support endangers the lives of Canadian troops, it should be better informed.

    If this article and the comments attached to it do nothing more than raise the awareness of those who unconditionally support or decry our efforts in Afghanistan they have done their job.
  85. Mahatma Gandhi from Calgary, Canada writes: Richard Soley from writes: The misinformation in these columns is astounding, this mission was not set up to bring democracy to Afghanistan it started as retaliation for the attack on New York.

    I hope not. Since when does Canada send troops to another country to carry out an act of retaliation.

    The impression I got from the initial Operation Enduring Freedom (now there's irony for you) was that the objective was to capture or kill Osama bin Laden and his gang. We're still