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There can't be peace in the Mideast without Syria

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 4:04 PM EDT 07/05/08

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  1. Better to light a small candle than to sit and curse the darkness from Canada writes: There can't be peace in the Mideast without Syria? There also can't be peace in the Mideast without a comprehensive peace agreement between Israel and the adjacent Arab states which also includes a homeland for the displaced Palestinians in Gaza and on the West Bank of the Jordan. A piecemeal peace is tantamount to a continuation of hostilities. This would mean the evacuation from the conquered lands of all the Israeli settlers. Like it or not?
    CYMRO
  2. David Morgan from Moncton, writes: I served as a UN Military Observer in the UNTSO mission (97-98), where I spent a year patrolling the Golan Heights, and so I have seen almost every inch of the land in question. I know a lot has changed since then, but I find if very difficult to believe that the Israelis who live there would leave, or that Israeli would give up this strategic buffer zone. The Golan separates Tiberias and the fresh water Sea of Galilee from Syria. As well, would the settlers easily leave the farms, industries and businesses that that have built up over the years? Would the government give up the wind farms that dot the border with Syria and which produce at least 10% of Israels electircity? There seems to be too much infrastruture there to give up.
  3. Lance Berelowitz from Vancouver, Canada writes: Patrick, One critical piece of the Golan puzzle, which your essay touched on but does not I think give enough weight to at all, is Israel's dire water situation. As you presumably know, some 40% of Israel's water comes off the Golan Heights, and protecting this source, more than any now superceded strategic security reasons, is a key factor in any peace deal the two countries may sign. Without water Israel is finished, and they are already in very dire straits. I was just there and saw the Sea of Galilee about 40 ft. below the level it was a year ago. There is a water crisis looming in Israel, and the Golan, or at least access to its waters, is vital to the country's long term survival.
  4. Better to light a small candle than to sit and curse the darkness from Canada writes: Leslie Tobias, Toronto: I believe that peace in the Middle East will never happen as long as Israel is under threat against from all Arab and Islamic nations. I believe the territories belong to Israel and should remain with Israel. The Arabs have never negotiated in good faith and never will. Their agenda is simply to destroy Israel.
    ****************************************************
    This is the kind of thing that is repeated endlessly by SOME Jews in Canada and the USA. Those particular lies were denied promptly and lucidly by Mr Martin AND BACKED UP BY THE FACTS
    From the tenor of Mr. Matin's remarks I would conclude that he is hopeful that peace may eventually come to this troubles region and that the killing may stop. Thoughts that Leslie Tobias would reject as inimical to the policy of a 'Greater Israel'.
    The Leslie Tobiases of this world will continue their lies until peace eventually comes as come it must for the benefit of all Israelis and Palestinians living in the Middle East.
    CYMRO
  5. Lance Berelowitz from Vancouver, Canada writes: The tricky bit that has foiled previous efforts at a Golan Heights deal (you know this history better than most, Patrick) is the section along the eastern shoreline of the Sea of Galilee, which was never historically part of Syria after the 1923 League agreement, but which they took nevertheless post '48. As Assad senior said in the 1990s during negotiations with Israel, he wants his soldiers to swim in the lake again, and that is what they are still expecting I believe. Or maybe Assad junior is a less keen swimmer?

    Interestingly, with the recent drop in water levels I referred to in my previous, the lake's shoreline now is many meters further west (i.e. into Israel proper) so I am curious to see how they settle this longstanding disagreement about where the border line really is.

    Security wise, neither country really needs the Heights anymore: technology and third party (i.e. US) supervision renders the Heights largely irrelevant from that perspective. Mind you, Israel still maintains impressive (scary?) numbers of battle-ready tanks up there, as I witnessed on a recent visit to the Golan.
  6. Leslie Tobias from Toronto, Canada writes: M comments are no lies. They are the truth. This war will never end by political means. Should that be true. peace would have already prevailed. . Peace will never happen. Israel is prime real-estate for all world religions. And religion is what separates what government are trying to achieve using the political process. Many people around the world agree there will not be peace in the future. There will be a final WAR in the Middle East. Just pray you are not there when the bomb drops.
    This is not a Jewish thought. Many Christians believe that. Many liberals believe t hat and many seculars believe that. Without Israel. no country is safe.
  7. Better to light a small candle than to sit and curse the darkness from Canada writes: David Morgan from Moncton, writes: The Golan separates Tiberias and the fresh water Sea of Galilee from Syria. As well, would the settlers easily leave the farms, industries and businesses that that have built up over the years?
    **************************************************
    That is tantamount to saaying 'Yes, I stole your car but I find it so useful that I just cannot give it up.' Sorry, Mohamed.
    CYMRO
  8. Better to light a small candle than to sit and curse the darkness from Canada writes: Leslie Tobias from Toronto, Canada writes: M comments are no lies. They are the truth. This war will never end by political means. ******************************************************* Are you stupid or what? There are only two ways to end a war. By negociation (ie political means) or by the complete obliteration or destruction of one side by the other. Karl von Clausewitz, a Prussian military strategist who aimed to teach clear strategic thinking, is often quoted as describing war as an extension of diplomacy. He was correct and the ending of a war can only be done in a humane way by the same method, negociation (or by diplomacy). if you eschew the other method (complete obliteration of one side). How old are you? One side talks to the other and they arrive at a consensus ad idem and when all are of one mind the war ends. Israel want to keep all the land of the original British Mandate plus the land given up by Jordon and Egypt, If you are not lying then Mr. Martin must be an idiot or a fool or perhaps your reading skill are at a grade one level.. They will only come to the table if the world pressures them to do so. Read what Mr. Martin said. Slowly and carefully and get someone to explain it to you. Eventually the war will end. Let us hope it doesn't end with another 9/11 on an Israeli city. Why do you think we are all so concerned about whether Iran develops a nuclear device? It doesn't need to actually since Pakistan,a Moslem state, has one already. CYMRO
  9. Carolyn Bongiorno from Glenham,NY, United States writes: The state of Israel built an infrastructure in the Golan Heights knowing that it was an occupied, disputed territory. It's futile to complain now about all the investments they'll lose when the land is returned to Syria, and the nation spent most of its first 20 years without those water resources.

    It's time to negotiate in good faith.
  10. Ian B from Canada writes: David Morgan, I certainly agree with you. Unlike the West Bank or Gaza or the Sinai, the Golan Heights are annexed by Israel. The only other annexed territory is East Jerusalem. All other territories that Israel gained as a result of the wars, have never been annexed and were ready to be returned right after the 1967 war. However, you might be interested to look at a version of the peace agreement that Israel almost made with Assad's father about a decade ago. According to this version Syria would demilitarize the Golan and create a park where the Israelis would be allowed for a nominal fee. This version contains a few others creative ideas. However the agreement collapsed, according to sources, over a 200-meters long strip along the Sea of Galilee. I am not sure about the significance of this strip as according to the UN Partition plan the entire Sea of Galilee is inside Israel. But my guess is that Israel wanted to have an additional platform for protection as the Sea is its main source of drinking water. Without this strip, Israel would only maintain a 10-meter wide belt between the Sea and the bigger part of the Syrian border. Since you have been stationed there you probably have a better understanding about significance of this strip. In any case, if Israel would decide to return the Heights, this would be a very painful decision.
  11. Ian B from Canada writes: I would be surprised if Assad insists to have the exit to the Sea. Syria did receive the Southern Golan Heights in the land swap with the British Mandate of Palestine in 1923 but it never received the 10-meter wide strip along the Sea. So may be this is the Strip that older Assad wanted to have and this is what collapsed the previous negotiations a decade ago.
  12. Sceptical Observer from Canada writes: Better to light a small candle than to sit and curse the darkness from Canada writes: David Morgan from Moncton, writes: The Golan separates Tiberias and the fresh water Sea of Galilee from Syria. As well, would the settlers easily leave the farms, industries and businesses that that have built up over the years?
    ************************************************
    That is tantamount to saaying 'Yes, I stole your car but I find it so useful that I just cannot give it up.' Sorry, Mohamed.
    >>>That is tantamount to saying 'You tried to kill me using that hill and you won't get it back because you are a cruel criminal that kill your own people on regular basis. Sorry Mohamed or Assad.
  13. Ian B from Canada writes: Better to light a small candle than to sit and curse the darkness from Canada writes: That is tantamount to saaying 'Yes, I stole your car but I find it so useful that I just cannot give it up.
    >>>>>
    Except Syria started the war and lost it together with the territory. The territory can be taken back as a result of another war or in return to a peace agreement. Syria hasn’t been able to start another war and so far hasn't sign a peace agreement.
  14. Hans Ulster from From the Canadian Oilpatch, Canada writes: Better to light a small candle than to sit and curse the darkness from Canada writes: David Morgan from Moncton, writes: The Golan separates Tiberias and the fresh water Sea of Galilee from Syria. As well, would the settlers easily leave the farms, industries and businesses that that have built up over the years?
    ************************************************
    That is tantamount to saaying 'Yes, I stole your car but I find it so useful that I just cannot give it up.' Sorry, Mohamed.
    CYMRO

    ---------

    Actually, Israel won the land in a war initiated by hostile states. The Muslims only have themselves to blame for the current crisis.
  15. Ian B from Canada writes: Better to light a small candle than to sit and curse the darkness from Canada writes: That is tantamount to saaying 'Yes, I stole your car but I find it so useful that I just cannot give it up.'
    >>
    If my neighbour used this car to kill me, I will not give it back until he promises quit trying to kill me. Is this concept too difficult to understand? If so, consider the fate of East Prussia. As it had been used by Germany to commit aggressions against Russia repeatedly, Russia has annexed this territory. No more East Prussia. Syria should consider itself lucky it has a neighbour like Israel and not like Russia.
  16. Lay Man from Toronto, Canada writes: A funny thing I noticed in some of the readers' comments: expressions like 'peace between Damascus and Tel Aviv'. Metonymy as a way to express recognition of nation's capital, or lack thereof, does not seem to be working well.

    Recognition aside, who is there in Tel Aviv to make peace with Syria? Only foreign embassies. The phrase does not sound any more logical than 'peace between Damascus and Ashkelon'. All decision makers - Goverment, Parliament (Knesset) and Supreme Court are in Jerusalem, again whether you recognize it or not. They are just there physically.

    I guess there is some sad irony in this - other countries (with embassies in Tel Aviv) may have more influence over the peace process than Israel's government in Jerusalem, so the peace may actually be between Tel Aviv and Damascus. But I don't think that was the intention of the original poster.

    'Better...darkness': people are so easily put into this 'if only' state of mind... if only Israel pulled out of Gaza... if only Israel pulled out of West Bank... the Golan... East Jerusalem... if only Israel allowed million(s) of palestinian refugees into to country... stopped the assassinations... all the problems would be solved! There wouldn't be Al Qaeda in Iraq or anywhere else, wouldn't be nuclear program in Iran, human rights problems in Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries would go away, and you know what, oil would be $20 a barrel. Come on, get back to Earth. As PM is correctly saying, there's much more to Mideast problems that Arab-Israeli conflict. And there is much more to Arab-Israeli conflict solution than Israel giving up things unilaterally.
  17. Leslie Tobias from Toronto, Canada writes: No. I am not stupid. For you to even assume, tells me that you are not very intelligent. You have facts to support your argument. but you do not have truth. Talking with terrorist have not proven to solve problems, rather they create more problems. My age is a person of experience. By calling me stupid also suggests your lack of understanding and experience in the political conflict. Everyone on this site has something to contribute and opinions from their own point of view. Because I do not fully agree with you does not suggest I am stupid, but rather understand both sides of the argument. As for the Palenstinian issue. their suffering comes from their leaders and their culture. Israel has done more to improve the lives of the Palenstians than their own leaders. You may not agree with this statement and that is your opinion. People judge Israel harshly. I will tell you a story. When I was in Israel I befriended a Palenstian. The family was hospitabile and suffered greatly because of threats made to them by Islamic Palenstians. He home was attacked because of his association with me. This is everyday life in Israel. So, before you call anyone stupid, remove your ignorance and understand that your comments are not the solution to the any middle east crisis. This war will continue as it has for thousands of years.
  18. Ian B from Canada writes: When Sadat wanted to have peace he came to Jerusalem. However Assad is still on the fence.
  19. Ian B from Canada writes: Patrick Martin believes that Israel still occupies Lebanon (Shebaa farms), which implies that Hezbolah had a justification to start the war. Well... the UN has certified the complete Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon and no country in the World believes that this territory belongs to Lebanon (even Lebanon and Syria never certified the land transfer in the UN). Hezbolah would certainly agree with Patrick on this but this example just underlines the notion that Israel's withdrawals will never be enough to prevent future wars. Gaza withdrawal unfortunately proves the Lebanon precedent. As far as the article goes... so much for an attempt to stay neutral.
  20. Khalid Rahim from Canada writes: The Israeli occupation of Golan and West Bank and supported by the West,
    on the pretext of universal recognition of Israel by her neighbors. Will not
    be accepted by Syria or Saudi Arabia, unless there is a complete withdrawal
    from all occupied territories. The problem is not Syria, but Israel herself who
    wants to eat and keep the cake.
  21. Ian B from Canada writes: If Syria wants to get the Golan Heights housing and the infrastructure from Israel it might offer to pay for it on top of the usual reparations. Alternatively Saudis might offer to pay for Syria to push this country to make peace and stop Iran’s influence in the region. This will help to offset the relocation cost.

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