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Calgarians rally around family that lost toddler after 911 mix-up

NADIA MOHARIB

The Canadian Press

Latest comment posted at 9:46 AM EDT 03/05/08

Trust fund set up for family of Elijah Luck, who will be buried Monday ...Read the full article

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  1. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: There is a simple and inexpensive solution; tell the 911 operator where you are. Or, the 911 operator can ask.
  2. N. M. from Canada writes: And what if you can't talk because of a medical problem, or you're hiding in a closet with the phone in your hand while the robber is in the house.
  3. Ryan Coulter from Saskatoon, Canada writes: I find it creepy that the G&M website is advertising Vonage voip right next to this story.

    The company probably went with the installation address rather than the billing address because John Doe could probably receive bills in Kalamazoo, Michigan for the voip service John Doe Jr has in his Mississauga dorm room.
    This system of communication needs to be regulated and any of it's operators needs to be trained to handle emergency calls in the same way 911 operators have been for years.
  4. A A from Canada writes: Joachim, are you for real?

    Ever heard of a free market economy that is based on consumption. We all want bigger cars, houses and great vacations.

    You are an insensitive jackass trying to be funny on a sad situation. What if that was your kid?
  5. Al . from Canada writes: Joachim Zucker

    A moderator has been alerted to your offensive comment !
  6. Alberto Bayo from Canada writes: VoIP certainly knew where to send the phone bills. Sue the crap out of them.
  7. Rick C from Canada writes: 'Comwave wants to make sure a similar scenario never happens again'.

    Well,.....I just dont know what to say. Were they considering not making sure that a similar scenario never happens again?

    Maybe they should phone their coustomers from time to time to find out just exactly where the phone is and explain to the coustomer why they need to know.
  8. Spring is finally here! from Canada writes: ' Alberto Bayo from Canada writes: VoIP certainly knew where to send the phone bills. Sue the crap out of them.'

    I cam fairly sure that Comwave has out sourced its billing to a separate company that deals with it's billing - the same way that it probably outsourced its database records on physical address locations to a separate company. Guess which one update its records frequently. This will continue to happen until the CRTC holds the companies financially responsible for there actions. Something similar to Bill-C45 that holds managers responsible for the well being of there employees..

    On a side note - this is the same company that is suing Apple for trade mark infringements on using 'iPhone' in Canada - I can not help but think a lot of there funds are going towards that case... or probably directly into the pockets of the owners.
  9. Gordon Murray from Canada writes: Some really lame regulators, somehow tired of their 'meagre' pay, were suggesting that those using 'mobile' VoIP (not this case) be made to wear Disturbia-like ankle monitors towards proper respect of 911 - maybe an electrical charge sent through the ankle monitor in cases where it's clear it's not being worn.
  10. Jack Jones from Clearwater, BC, Canada writes: Company knows where you are when it's time to get paid.

    Company can't find you when it's time to get help????

    I agree,

    Sue the crap out of them.
  11. Orest Zarowsky from Toronto, Canada writes: The Lucks had informed ComWave of their actual address. As was noted by a neigbour in a post in the thread related to the original article. So the company is wholly at fault.
  12. B H from Toronto, Canada writes: Am I the only one who can see that Joachim is simply mocking a certain kind of obsessive right-winger who blames everything, no matter how blatantly unrelated, on their pet idea? Seeing as it's pretty obvious from the article that a) it was nighttime and b) his aunt woke up and called 911, and c) there is no mention of how many other family members were home with him caring for him or what his father or mother do for a living, it's pretty obvious that there is no way even the most single minded fanatic could somehow manage to actually tie this article in with any of the stuff Joachim posted -- he is not serious!
  13. Steve Pacholka from St. John's, Canada writes: Being a former voip subscriber with Vonage I was made well aware of the problems they have with regards to 911 service. Vonage made sure to inform me on several occasions that I had to update my address and confirm it myself in order for 911 to know where I live.

    VOIP is not like a regular telephone provider, you connect to a server somewhere on the internet, it could be on the opposite side of the country. When you dial 911 without registering your address it goes to the default area. In this familys case it seems like it was the address they signed up with, or atleast the address their credit card was registered with.

    I find it hard to believe that this familys provider didn't inform them they needed to register their address. I also find it believe that 911 doesn't confirm your address before sending help. Its tragic really. I hope they find a good lawyer and put them in their place. Theres far too many fly by night voip providers out there. The voip industry is loosely regulated at best.
  14. Tom Randall from Winnipeg, Canada writes: How about print on EVERY BILL you receive from your VoIP provider in BIG BOLD PRINT - We have your current address for 911 purposes as xxxxxxxxx - if there is any change, please contact us immediately

    There should also be the technology that when I call 911 on VoIP the 911 operator is displayed the 'address' of the IP address I am calling from - it may not get to street level, and have issue if I am on wifi but this would be able to identify between ON and AB (this technology exists today and there is no reason it can not be implemented) --- this would be valuable when you are traveling with your VoIP phone and call - the VoIP provider may have all the records up to date but if you have your phone with you on that business trip out of town, the 911 call will register as your home address.

    People should also really consider the $5 savings or so a month (depending on their LD plan) they pay for VoIP over landline, for reliability and issues like this it is $5 well spent
  15. El Christador from Canada writes: There seems to be an assumption on the part of many commenters that the billing address can be assumed to be the location the phone is being used from. I do not see why this would always be the case. In general, it's pretty common to have bills sent to a different address.
  16. old Curmudgeon From Ottawa from Canada writes: I have a similar problem with Rogers. My bill has the proper address and postal code. However, whenever I call their service department, their records show an incorrect postal code.

    Tried three times to get it fixed. They tell me it's fixed, then, on my next call, the erroneous data is back!

    I agree with the poster that says the companies are meticulous about getting paid, but very sloppy with our data otherwise...
  17. Al Donnelly from Canada writes: A VoIP phone service nicely compliments a regular land line for which at this time there seems to be no reasonable replacement.
  18. E J Doran from London, ON Canada, Canada writes: I am a former subscriber to Comwave's iPhone service.

    As I recall, each subscriber has an on-line 911 Emergency Profile. It's the subscribers responsibility to complete and update this profile, providing the physical address for emergency responders. I remember several notices from the company reminding me of the importance of keeping this information current.

    Unlike traditional land line service, VOIP service is portable. You may plug-in your VOIP adapter anywhere in the world where there is internet service.

    For the purposes of emergency response, think of it as being similar to mobile phone service. I suspect very few mobile phone calls to 911 occur from the billing address.

    The lessons here are keep your emergency profile up-to-date and when possible, give your address to 911 operators.
  19. Celine Brown from Canada writes: I still can't get over the fact you're not even calling the real 911 with VoiP. I'm sure Bell is getting more calls with people switching back after this incident.
  20. Prairie Boy from Canada writes: There is a lot of bashing of the service but the caller was told to stay on the line. They became 'disconnected'. The company has a problem but it is not one they can fix without the co-operation of the customer. The customer is responsibile for their profile and no-one else. If they submitted the right info, stayed on the line then the company would be negligent in their actions.

    Personal responsibility.
  21. m m from Mississauga, Canada writes: You can go with Bell for $70 a month or you can use a small voip provider for $20. It's not $5 bucks difference.
    Regulate them and you will have small voip providers charging $70 a month.

    Also I wonder how many similar cases went unnoticed with traditional telecoms because they are - yes just traditional telecoms.
  22. Celine Brown from Canada writes: MM, since when does Bell cost $70. I live in Quebec and with touchtone, telephone and long distance I pay between $35 and $45 a month.
  23. m m from Mississauga, Canada writes: Celine, I live in Mississauga, as you might notice.

    I've just dropped Bell because it was $70 a month. I need to call States a couple times a week, and with long distance, hidden charges and ridicules “additional feature charges” like voicemail box for five messages and caller ID it was coming to $70. My new voip provider charges flat $19.95, US calls are local, caller id and unlimited voice mail are free, international long distance 1/3 of Bell’s price.

    Did I mention unlimited DSL Internet from the same guys I’m getting for additional $19.95?

    I guess I can afford to notify my provider about change of address.
  24. m m from Mississauga, Canada writes: Oh, I forgot to mention that $19.95 a month for the phone service is a REGULAR price. Firs year I'm gonna pay $9.95 for this phone bonanza.
  25. Nassar Ben Houdja from Canada writes: An inquest is required to explain this and make recomendations to keep it from happening again. How does the company know where to send the bill, but cannot relay a change of address to an emergency service when requirerd. Personnel resposibility and accountability means everyone, especially business when handling information.
  26. Erik Richards from Winnipeg, MB, writes: I too have a $19.95/month service with U.S. company. For that I get unlimited calling in North America, voice mail (including email notification with the voice mail message as an attachment) plus a second virtual number. We set up the virtual number in Houston for my wife's family, who can call that number and get us free of charge. I have yet to see Bell, MTS or any other provider match that kind of price or functionality. Since we signed up in 2004 we have spent about $850 total. That's less than regular phone service without long distance with a regular carrier.

    Yes, I admit our 911 is not very robust and I have some lingering concerns about its ability to work. On the other hand, most people will never call 911 in their life, whereas all of the other VoIP features we use weekly if not daily.

    What I would like is the ability for a one-off test of our 911 service, to see exactly who we reach when we call 911. But as a backup we have other emergency numbers stored in the phone in case of emergency. Plus there are always our cell phones, which have 911 service.
  27. Orest Zarowsky from Toronto, Canada writes: One of the important reasons the Bell and the other 'traditional' telco suppliers chrge so much more is that they provide and maintain the infrastructure that thes other operators piggy-back on. So Telus, for example doesn't actually own, build, amintain or reapir any of the wire they use to provide the service. That's Bell's responsibility. And Bell is required by law to allow these operators to use their wire and can't charge them a reasonable access fee. Go figure. Same thing with Rogers network. some here should keep trivial facts like this in mind.
  28. Henry Wysmulek from Winnipeg, writes: The only question here is why does a 911 call go to a voip call center and not a real 911 operator in the local city?

    Even minor delays like that can cost people their lives.

    But hey, you can save a few pennies a month.
  29. Kitty Burgers from Hamilton, Canada writes: Just so readers don't get the wrong idea about VoIP service: the one and only time I've needed to call 911, it was from a traditional (POTS) Bell Canada land-line. The first attempt resulted in a busy signal ... yes, you read that right, a busy signal. The second attempt was answered, and ... get ready for this ... I was asked to be put on hold! I only had to hold for about 15 seconds, but nevertheless, it goes to show you that even traditional e911 service has its quirks.
  30. m m from Mississauga, Canada writes: Orest Zarowsky wrote
    'One of the important reasons the Bell and the other 'traditional' telco suppliers chrge so much more is that they provide and maintain the infrastructure that thes other operators piggy-back on.'

    Yeh, sure. My heart is bleeding for Bell, GM, United Steel and dinosaurs.

    When I called Bell to terminate my service I asked about “network access fee” and “touch tone” they happened to forget to mention in their advertisings. The representative told me that they’re scamming this way to be able to compete with other large providers. I was duly impressed – they have at least one honest guy.
  31. michael morris from Prescott, Canada writes: Sure save a few pennies a month and kill your kid. This company is like any other, only interested in where to send bill, could care less about service..... victums fault, sue their butts off.
  32. Orest Zarowsky from Toronto, Canada writes: @ m m: Nevertheless, it's true. Maintaining the infrastructure isn't a trivial expense. Nor is expanding and upgrading it. Sooner or later it has to be paid for. And even cheapskates like you will have to pay your share.
  33. m m from Mississauga, Canada writes: Orest Zarowsky:
    'Maintaining the infrastructure isn't a trivial expense. ... And even cheapskates like you will have to pay your share.'

    Are you sure about it? There is $8 difference between dry loop and straight DSL. That’s your infrastructure price, if you know what I mean. I’ll pay it for a while. But WiMax is coming and then Bell can hang itself on its copper for all what I care.
  34. Simon Simon from Vancouver, Canada writes: The paperwork will also say that VOIP users shouldn't rely on 911 knowing where they are.
  35. Kevin Desmoulin from Toronto, Canada writes: A bad situation, sorry to hear about it, I just do know why companies and us in general can not be proactive in discerning what ever possible problems may come up.
    This is something all parties, regulators and industry and service providers should have make sure that 911 is reached at soon as it is dialed.
    The president of Comwave basically said the same, one should reach 911 as soon as it is dialed.
  36. Fred S from Vancouver, writes: VOIP is totally portable in laptop computers. I use mine all over Canada and all over the world.

    The user profile should specify 'mobile' or 'residential'. I doubt they do. My home login is the same as that of my laptop so in my case only I can tell them where the emergency is.

    It remains to be seen if in this case billing info got more corporate attention than emergency contact info on a separate database.

    However why were the calls continually dropped? User's power supply, user's computer, internet provider's server/line, VOIP provider's server, overload of an internet carrier's lines or was this due to the traffic shaping that such major carriers now do to cripple certain types of competitor's internet traffic to the benefit of their own customers? This should be seriously investigated. Can 911 VOIP be distinquished from normal VOIP? 911 VOIP should not be crippled but perhaps it is.
  37. C L from T O, Canada writes: This 911 situation should have been ironed out WAY before deployment. Unfortunately, this kind of incompetence and bungling can only be solved by a very very expensive lawsuit.

    Real-time programmers, and those that program dangerous medical devices, nuclear reactors, etc., know the score; when lives are at stake, you test the hell out of any system before rolling it out, and you provide redundancies.

    For years, IT and web guys have gotten away with murder - not testing or testing 'in the wild' and fixing things as they go along, i.e. unleashing them onto an unsuspecting public before they're ready for prime time. Well... the chickens are coming home to roost.
  38. F Dionne from Toronto, Canada writes: I have been using a VOIP service for a couple of years, and it has saved me in excess of $15,000 in long distance charges. However, as is the case with cell phones, reliability is less than 100%. For this reason I still have a land line with no added service but call forwarding, and I forward everything to my VOIP.
  39. K. O'Brien from Kingston, Canada writes: Sue no! The Crown should file wrongfull death charges against the officers of the Company.
  40. K B from Vancouver, Canada writes: This article is a bit foolish. I've worked in the Call Centres of one of the big three. Your service address can be completely different from your billing address.

    For example, if you're a dad in Ontario and your daughter is in university in Vancouver, you can have the bill sent to you, so this article about the VoIP company having the person's address is misleading.

    Also, most VoIP services are mobile. You can take your equipment and have it working anywhere in Canada where you have a phone connection. This is why e911 services won't work properly and why they ask you to keep your emergency contact information updated.

    This is a tragic situation, but I'm hesitant to lay all the blame on comwave or to demonize them, or VoIP services.
  41. D M from Canada writes: Fred S - there wasn't a problem with the connection continually dropping, as you put it. The first time, the caller voluntarily ended the call (she thought something was wrong or something). Then, when the operator called back, the call was disconnected. It isn't said how, or they don't know. However, it is quite possible that the mother ended the call once again voluntarily, thinking help was on its way, even though the operator told her to stay on the line. But, as mentioned at least in another article, the operator could not understand the mother well due to language difficulties, and that's quite possible vice versa as well, especially if the mother is panicking as is quite understandable.

    That's kind of the sad part - it all comes down to the mother just staying on the line until everything was sorted out, but probably in the panic, she hung up and the operator ended up sending help to the wrong address.
  42. rufus giroux from Vancouver, Canada writes: A reminder of the differences between VOIP and land-line 911 once a year (CRTC) or a notification somewhere when you log on to the support site (company proposition) don't cut it. A reminder on the bill every three months at least would be better, but even then you rely on the subscriber actually reading the bill. It's still up to the subscriber to pay attention. Maybe an annual $10,000 charge on their monthly bill (reversed when 911 data is renewed) would make them pay attention ;)

    I won't use VOIP because of the 911 issue (and overall reliability). It can NEVER be what the land-line service is, because of the nature of the system. Land-lines are nailed to your wall, which is located at a fixed address. VOIP isn't nailed to anything - BY DESIGN.

    Maybe a GPS responder in the adapter is the next step. Still not perfect, but better, possible, and not too expensive.

    My sympathies to the parents. It's a hard way to learn something.
  43. PANIC! At The Ice Floe from Ottawa, Canada writes: So is Rogers Home Phone susceptible to this as well? I know that is voice over IP as well, even though they try to hide it.
  44. Dick Garneau from Canada writes: 911 calls should always be referred to the local 911 operator, NO FARMING out to National or International centers. Cell phones should be tied to the billing address and the area code. VoIP should be hit with a significant fine as they were told to clear up this mess 3 years ago.
  45. M Kwad from Calgary, Canada writes: I guess that's the last we'll hear of Comwave... if the lawsuits don't get them the flood of customers leaving to other providers will.
  46. m m from Mississauga, Canada writes: Dick Garneau from Canada writes:
    'Cell phones should be tied to the billing address and the area code'

    Hell a lot it will help you when you're trying to get an ambulance from a local shopping mall during vacations on PEI.
  47. Bryce Richards from Calgary, Canada writes: So let me get this straight. When I talk with a 911 operator the first thing you give them is the address where the emergency is located. That way if you get cut off there is still some information to send the ambulance to. Even if the call centre was in Siberia the operator should still have confirmed the address of the emergency and been able to get the Call Out to the proper address. I put Full Blame on the call centre operator for the mix-up.
  48. Richard F from Canada writes: Before everyone everyone skewers Comcast and puts their heads on a pike in the village square, remember this.... billing address and service address are two different things. Lots of people, and companies have different addresses for billing purposes, it could be an accountant or bookkeepers office. You have to remember that the 911 response address is site specific and could be entirely different than the billing address. I live on Vancouver Island, and I could easily have my 'bills' sent to Calgary. What good would using that address be?

    Enhanced 911 IS possible with VOiP if only the service providers would assign a fixed IP address to the service address... be it DSL or Cable...but the don't, they use DHCP and offer a fixed IP address for an 'add on' at additional price.... usually $10/mo... it's to prevent people from using their service for 'server' purposes without paying extra.

    Using a billing address for 911 is crazy...with an ambulance showing up at some law or accounting firms address across town??

    It's up to the subscriber, and the provider makes that clear in my terms of service; I must designate a physical address for 911 purposes...had the family done that after they moved from Ontario, and not just changed the billing address, the ambulance would have shown up right away... a tragedy yes but don't go blaming Comcast if they forgot that little chore.
  49. Do The Math from Edmonton, Canada writes: This is a tragedy and a young child is dead. Clearly we've got to get to the bottom of this. Having done some work in the past in this area - I will make a point, though. Billing addresses and service addresses are 2 entirely different things in the telecom business. 911 operators don't see or get access as far as I know, to billing address info -- only service addresses, no matter which telecom carrier. I have Vonage service today and there is a separate 911 registration where the service address is entered by the user. If this was all the 911 people had and it wasn't up-to-date there would be trouble.
  50. Rick C from Canada writes: There is a pretty simple way to ensure this mistake doesn't happen again; listen to what the person who phones in actually says.

    They told the first 911 operator the address in Calgary. Instead the 911 operator dispatched an ambulance to the address blinking on a computer monitor instead.
  51. Simon Simon from Vancouver, Canada writes: It's to acknowlege the elephant head in the room: 911 as well as every other n11 system is obselete, because it makes (and depends upon) an assumption about the telephone network(s) which is no longer true, and which will only become less and less true over time.

    Systems like the BOIP provider's 911 call center are bandaid solutions. Instead of training the public to phone 911 when they's trouble, we need to go to a more robust system which trains the public to learn and dial the acvtual phone number of the actual copshop, etc.
  52. Richard F from Canada writes: 'most of these pro-VoIP guys are actually company shills' ...really R. Puri? And just maybe your some paid 'big telco' shill defending the Bells and Teluses of the land... actually, I'm retired...and I'm fed up with the overpriced service of the old telco monolith monopolies. I'm also fed up with paying into the tens of million$ the Telco's CEO gets every quarter.

    We are so used to expecting Big Brother to do everything and to arrange everything for us... 911, Police, Fire or Ambulance, were trained that it's not our business to be proactive, in fact they normally don't want us to be.

    Well it's not so with VOiP. Unlike fixed landline or cellular service the authorities can't control VOiP communications. So unlike fixed line or cellular where everything is done for you, you just pay for it, we actually have to take some personal responsibility for ourselves and identify our fixed address or service location should we wish to have the 911 service.

    R. Puri... what's wrong with taking a little personal responsibility for once...were always being trained that big brother knows all and does all for you.

    I don't buy into that crap...

  53. James McGillawee from Oshawa, Canada writes: Alberto Bayo from Canada writes: VoIP certainly knew where to send the phone bills. Sue the crap out of them.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    First, they should be referred for criminal negligence charges in criminal court. This is the best way to get the message across to uppity corpulent manglement. Suing for money is just setting a price on the license to do business in a negligent way. Criminal conviction carries serious time in slam for willful careless performance of assumed responsibility for emergency service communications!
  54. Dan L from Canada writes: Amazing, over fifty posts here and NO ONE appears to have noticed the entire article is simply a rehash of the G & M's first piece on this incident, trumpeting a fact that was already known, ie the VoIP provider's billing department had the correct address, as if it's a new, significant development!

    In fact, the only useful information to be found here was mentioned by a poster, that Comwave's billing function is probably contracted out anyway as possibly their 911 call center function so good luck with the left hand knowing what the right is doing when they're not even connected in the middle!!

    If their billing dept is anything like my gas company in Ottawa was ..... for five years I'd get a bill with my name and address on it one month, and the next simply addressed to "occupant" ..... five years and I never could get it sorted out. Even worse with Bell, four months after moving, and with a bill marked final and paid in full, I received a bill saying I still owed them money!!?!

    Depend on a phone service to assume my billing address is the service address for 911 service? I THINK NOT!
  55. Alan Burke from climatechange.dynalias.com in Ottawa, Canada writes: There are technical solutions to the problem. In the case of wireless cell phones, for example, location can be found my triangulation.

    Check out "tracert" - the Internet depends upon routers, which know their locations. Or have a look at:

    http://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm

    This tragedy could have and should have been avoided. Don't blame the technology - blame the management who failed to follow through on the requirement to provide E911 service.
  56. Meg Lamont from Ottawa, Canada writes: We were informed when we switched to a VOIP company that there is a difference in the 911 service. The company Primas sent in their startup kit, stickers that are to be stuck on the phones talking about the 911 service. It should tell anyone who picks up the phone about the 911 service. For us, it has been a really good experience. We've had them for for almost 2 years and it has been really nice with the cost savings. I do feel for the Luck family, but I don't think the VOIP service is the one who should take the heat. It's a joint issue, I'm sure they were informed that it was a different type of 911 service instead of traditional land lines. Just like if the VOIP was down because of the ISP, would the ISP then be responsible? Just my thoughts.

    M
  57. Alan Burke from climatechange.dynalias.com in Ottawa, Canada writes: "April 4th, 2005

    CRTC Decision on 9-1-1 Emergency Services for VoIP Service Providers    "

    http://www.crtc.gc.ca/ENG/NEWS/RELEASES/2005/r050404.htm
  58. M M from West Coast, Canada writes: It's not surprising to read all the hateful comments on this thread about the big, awful company - yet when we want (not need) something we all turn to the big, awful company to make our wishes come true. Come on people - this was a tradegy, but I suspect the family has some of the blame for the problem. I've' ofen thought of giving up my landline for just a mobile phone or VOIP, but having been through a blackout where only the landline worked I rethought the whole thing. Sometimes, people have to take some responsibility for what happens in their lives!!!
  59. A Canadian from Cole Harbour, Canada writes: Once again the misinformed and the know-it-all are at it again. know. Billing and 911 information is two separate issue. Actually I dont get a paper bill, it is sent to me by email and my credit card is automatically debited. In addition, VOIP company goes out of its way to inform people about the limitation of 911. Again I will post part of what they say on the web site. With xxxxx's 9-1-1 service, your call is sent to a national emergency call centre. The call centre operator will confirm your location information and then transfer your 9-1-1 call to the emergency response centre nearest your location. You should be prepared to confirm your address and call-back number with the operator. Do not hang up unless told directly to do so and if disconnected, you should dial 9-1-1 again. You should ensure your location information, when registered with xxxxx, is kept current at all times. In case you are not able to speak during the 911 call, the call taker would dispatch emergency response vehicles to your last registered address. Remember that you need to update your 9-1-1 Dialing information if you move your device to a different location and/or if you add a new line to your account. It is a tragic event however, the family is also at fault for what happened.
  60. Joe Liberali from Canada writes: This was a matter of time. Working in the industry it scares me daily that this system is as unreliable as it is. A part of the fundamental design philosophy used to build the internet was that cheap and unreliable is better than very expensive and reliable. Why? Because you can buy alot of cheap and unreliable equipment and build things in parallel which (in theory) will create a more robust system (sorry, the calculations aren't really appropriate here, but for data networks these numbers come out making sense).

    It is still a fragile system, it cannot (yet) be engineered to the rigour that the old telephone system was.

    Ultimately this looks like human failure. Geo-locating a device on the internet is not in anyway a science, but still an art. The technology is there, the tools are there, but they're not being used, and they're not being used out of a false sense of security, out of a need to hide this data, and for some networks out of a poor addressing scheme.

    This is fixable, we can work around jackasses such as the one that allegedly broke 911 service for this family, but it will take cooperation.
  61. gil bert from Calgary, Canada writes: As a retired senoir on a limited income and living in Calgary with an inflation rate of 5%, I recently made a decision to use a VOIP service.
    It was only after I told Telus that I was leaving that they offered to let me continue with my land line service at 1/2 the price. I've been with them since 1977.
    I'm still debating the offer, but I'm lending on adding a cell service instead. That way I have 2 shots at 911.
  62. W M from Canada writes: This was a tragic story, but good on Calgarians for doing what they can to make it less so.

    As for the people who are rushing to judgement, why not wait and let an inquiry determine what actually happened (it is a certainty that there will be one). Accusations that one or more people caused the death of a child (whether they be employees of a phone company or members of the family) are not the kind of thing that should be thrown around with almost no knowledge of the details. It may even be that while we have much to learn from this, no one should be singled out and "blamed".
  63. B L from Calgary, Canada writes: @ A Canadian from Cole Harbour,

    Don't be ridiculous.

    Either that or you must be a shill or a lawyer for Comwave trying to cover up for their deadly mistake. Comwave has NO excuse and I hope they pay for what they did.

    Here is what the family did:

    - They DID call Comwave to update everything EVERYTIME they moved.

    - This family DID get a COMWAVE paper bill to the three locations that they moved to during the two years they have lived in Calgary.

    - They DID give their address to the Comwave call centre operator.

    What more could they have done.

    For you to condemn this poor family is incredible.

    Get a life.
  64. M Poland from Calgary, Canada writes: Some of you are missing the point of the article here: to whit, Calgary is a great place to live [unlike what some nay-sayers prattle on about on other threads online] How about those neighbours stepping up to console a grieving family? We're all in it together.
  65. A Canadian from Cole Harbour, Canada writes: L from Calgary, Canada You can think what ever you want, I dont really care. I did not condemn them as you stated, I simply said they were partly to blame for what happened.

    In the original story it was said that the caller had called regular E911 but because they didnt answer the phone after 5 rings she hung up and went to a VOIP phone. It was also said that the person hung up while on the phone with the 911 operator and the caller's english was very bad. Again , it is a sad thing that happened. Just like other people has stated, lets wait for the inquiry before getting a lynching mob together.
  66. Better to light a small candle than to sit and curse the darkness from Canada writes: I do NOT understand this at all. Did the person placing the all NOT give the correct address? Relying on an outdated address for any reason seems rather odd to me. What a tragedy!
    CYMRO
  67. Ricky for a Centrist Canada from Canada writes:
    More and more there is less corporate responsibility.

    Anything that impedes the profit-making process, short of breaking the criminal code, is abandoned in the name of efficiency and "free market".

    Profits before people.

    Period.
  68. Anne R. from Canaan, United States writes: Why do we assume the mother disconnected the call? I've been disconnected while on hold to a company plenty of times.
  69. Jim Saxon from Canada writes: I am saddened by this story - first of all, all right minded citizens should join in sending condolences to the bereaved family. Further, as I just watched on CBC, it does appear to be a case of criminal negligence on part of the Phone compay but let's give the enquiry time before rushing to judgement.
  70. Rob Aldred from Vancouver, Canada writes: After recently exploring Comwave's iPhone VoIP service for my sister who moved residences with her kids, I was specifically informed by them that in order to receive proper and accurate 911 service it is solely up to the end user to provide and maintain their current address, phone numbers and any medical conditions through iPhone's registration website/database or risk delays in receiving 911 emergency services in their neighbourhood.
    Factor in that if your ISP service ever goes down, you automatically loose your VoIP phone service with its 911 service and I was able to convince her that while cheap, relying solely on VoIP phone service was and is a risky proposition.
    What happened to this Calgary family merely reinforces to me that one should only place their reliance on a robust stable phone service that provides Enhanced 911 service and whose continued operation is not inter-dependent on the activation of a secondary system such as an ISP provider.

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