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Ottawa shirked duty to soldiers, minister says

MATTHEW TREVISAN

From Friday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 11:21 AM EDT 10/05/08

Previous governments haven't done enough to help returning troops deal with a variety of mental afflictions, Thompson notes ...Read the full article

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  1. Larry Murphy from Canada writes: It really is unfortunate, as we are now saddled with all those Liberal and NDP MPs who appear to have a wide array of mental issues brought on as a result of close combat.
    But I think their battlefield was at a Starbucks.
  2. Please Conservative voters we value your opinion, not commie scripted talking points from Canada writes: Harper did nothing when Israel bombed Canadian officer Major Hess-von Kruedener . Israel blocked peacekeeper bombing inquiry, Harper fell in line. Check it out pick one of any news sources, for example CTV Israel blocked peacekeeper bombing inquiry or tiny url version here at http://tinyurl.com/3lanmp
  3. Larry Murphy from Canada writes: Please Conservative voters we value your opinion, not commie scripted talking points from Canada writes: Harper did nothing when Israel bombed Canadian officer Major Hess-von Kruedener .

    Would this be because Hezbola had built their bunker next to and under the U.N. placement and were firing rockets at the Jews? That was found to be the case after the attack took place.
    This would be similar tactics to hiding in a housing area or children's school to wage their attacks.
    Daily you come on this site to support cowards and facists from the Middle East.
    I have to assume that you have been on the firing end of the Khaibar-1 rockets, or still have a relative doing it.
    Either way, cowardace has a stench to it that you can't just wash away. That would be why no one stands close to you on a bus.
  4. John Percy from Halifax, Canada writes: I know it's difficult, but if we can put politics and snide partisan comments aside for one moment and concentrate on the story, this is a good news story. DVA has stepped up to the plate and hit safely on this one, and good for them and Minister Thompson. I never thought I would utter a syllable of praise for this government, but I give them their due on this one. After the hometown parade and familial tears of joy, returning soldiers are pretty much left to deal with their demons on their own, and traditional military culture dictates that any problems coping with their experiences be sucked up and repressed, lest one appears weak (and IMO anyone who willingly puts their life on the line for me is far from weak). Vietnam vets fought for years for treatment and public respect, with untold damage done to thousands of vets. Look at the British soldiers returning now. Princes William and Harry, both military men, have taken it upon themselves to publicly embarrass their own government to force them to look after the physically and mentally wounded who have been left to their own devices. They dual-handedly have turned public opinion and government sentiment around in favour of treatment for their hometown heroes, something that should be a given. I am glad to see that Canada has moved on this. It is needed and deserving. Thank you.
  5. Please Conservative voters we value your opinion, not commie scripted talking points from Canada writes: Larry you do know about those that assume, sadly you lived up to that stereotype.
  6. Vern McPherson from writes:
    It's disgusting enough that our soldiers are suffering but even more low down to blame it on past governments.

    The COns are the most disgusting bunch ever to appear in this country's Parliament .........

    Outrageous and disgusting ...........
  7. Honest Williams vs Honest Dions vision for CANADA ! Draft Danny from Canada writes: Larry Murphy from Canada writes: Please Conservative voters we value your opinion, not commie scripted talking points Either way, cowardace has a stench to it that you can't just wash away. That would be why no one stands close to you on a bus. Posted 09/05/08 at 7:15 AM EDT | The Plight of American Veterans Published: November 12, 2007 "Recent surveys have painted an appalling picture. More than 300,000 of the nation’s 24 million veterans were homeless at some point during 2006, and while only a few hundred from Iraq or Afghanistan have turned up homeless so far, aid groups are bracing themselves for a tsunamilike upsurge in coming years. " Tens of thousands of reservists and National Guard troops, whose jobs were supposedly protected while they were at war, were denied prompt re-employment upon their return or else lost seniority, pay and other benefits. Some 1.8 million veterans were unable to get care in veterans’ facilities in 2004 and lacked health insurance to pay for care elsewhere. Meanwhile, veterans seeking disability payments faced huge backlogs and inordinate delays in getting claims and appeals processed. News blackouts from Afghanistan are for National Security !
  8. Kenneth Yurchuk from Toronto, Canada writes: Okay, so the minister has acknowledged the problem and outlined a few steps to combat the problem. This is a positive but still inadequate response, and the partisan shot at the previous government, while warrented, still reeks of political opportunism. Can't this Government find a way of once doing something right without immediately cheapening the gesture with a partisan shot?
  9. Anuradha Bose from ottawa, writes: We owe our defence service personnel the BEST care available. If the Grits were indeed so heinous-show them up by doing something spectacular. Act don't talk.
  10. Dick Dead-Eye from Fiji writes:

    Previous governments, mostly liberal governments, have been a big fat joke. The Chretien and Martin liberals used mass brainwashing techniques to lull Canadians into believing that our role was that of an inept peacekeeper, brokering deals and gaining international notoriety. Peacekeeping worked well in theater metaphorically similar to Mayberry, but when tested in Bosnia, Rwanda, and even the Suez, it became more or less a joke.

    Regrettably a large class of old fashioned hippie type Canadians still believe in liberal mythology and refuse to look into the mirror and see the tremendous number of warts which grow on the Canadian face: Canada the generous, Canada the green, Canada the good. For this reason most of these hippies have replaced their bathroom mirror with a copy of the Toronto Star, where columnists such as Linda McQuaig and Harron Siddiqui can divert mush needed soul searching by bashing the Unites States.
  11. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: Dick Dead Eye, your brain is dead as well.
  12. True North from Canada writes: Still blaming previous governments?? The Harper government wouldn't pay for soldiers' funerals.
  13. elainehr - from Canada writes: There is nothing set up for a returning soldier in Canada, not even a little ceremony to welcome him back and to thank him.
  14. Arron D from Canada writes: Elainehr, some Canadian soldiers get a great welcome home. Sadly those soldiers deserve more yet.
    But with that in mind, Canada still does more than anyone else on the planet. So take heart Elaine, we're the best of what's available.
  15. Always Right from Canada writes:

    Vernie - Outrageous and disgusting ...........?

    At 300 pounds of lipid rolls flowing off your computer chair, you'd be the expert with respect to that terminology.

    Have you seen the sun in the last few months? Spring's here BTW.

    Remember the last sound you'll hear - CLEAR!!!

    Then the voltage ...... then nothing.
  16. Honest Williams vs Honest Dions vision for CANADA ! Draft Danny from Canada writes: Dick Dead-Eye from Fiji writes:

    Previous governments, mostly liberal governments, have been a big fat joke. The Chretien and Martin liberals used mass brainwashing techniques to lull Canadians

    Please read this article
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/washington/20generals.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

    Google Grahame's past articles and re read the stats in this one ?
    harper promised me a fresh start not constant spin and censorship of an excellant journalist by Tiger Team .
  17. James C from Shenzhen, China writes: "True North from Canada writes: Still blaming previous governments?? The Harper government wouldn't pay for soldiers' funerals."
    _________

    stopy lying for a minute if you can. the funeral you refer to was one that cost more than treasury board regulations allowed for. and that matter was sorted out quickly enough.
  18. Honest Williams vs Honest Dions vision for CANADA ! Draft Danny from Canada writes: Always Right from Canada writes:

    Vernie - Outrageous and disgusting ...........?

    Then the voltage ...... then nothing.
    Posted 09/05/08 at 9:12 AM EDT |

    Are berniers Foreign Affairs and Corrections Canadas files still being supeonaed by the Military Watchdog Panel ? Think Milosevic ?
  19. Honest Williams vs Honest Dions vision for CANADA ! Draft Danny from Canada writes: James C from Shenzhen, China writes: Are berniers Foreign Affairs and Corrections Canadas files still being supeonaed by the Military Watchdog Panel ? Think Milosevic ?
    Posted 09/05/08 at 9:26 AM EDT |

    The DND gave full disclosure to the Military Watchdog panel but Foreign Affairs and Corrections Canada blacked out their submissions for national security ?

    Why does this government end up taking itself to Court so often ?
  20. I R from White Rock, BC, Canada writes: Combat? Look no further to the descent of training over the last 10 years into merging abusive training under the facade of "discipline" or "realistic training stressors".
  21. Dominik B from Canada writes: True North. That's a lie and you know it. James C caught it too. I R. Not sure I get what you mean. Do you mean that training is inadequate? If so, you can hardly simulate combat stress in training. As for the article, past governments probably means all governments since the beginning. We never truly looked closely at PTSD as it is hard to measure, but now better understood. I've had a brief once from a former LCol that suffered PTSD as a commanding officer in the 90's. He still looked like a broken man and a shell of his former self. This is very unfortunate because the family also suffers. A husband/wife, brother/sister, father/mother goes to serve abroad and comes back a stranger. This is no fun. I am glad to see that something better is ahead to help them.
  22. Stude Ham from Outremont, Canada writes: The real problems here are not the traumas being suffered by returning soldiers... it's being sent into a raging battlefield without any truly popular support.

    GET OUR TROOPS OUT OF AFGHANISTAN NOW!
  23. Honest Williams vs Honest Dions vision for CANADA ! Draft Danny from Canada writes: Traumatic events that may cause PTSD symptoms to develop include violent assault, kidnapping, torture, being a hostage, prisoner of war or concentration camp victim, experiencing a disaster, bad car accidents or getting a diagnosis of a life-threatening illness.[1] Children may develop PTSD symptoms by experiencing sexually traumatic events like age inappropriate sexual experiences. [1] Witnessing traumatic experiences or learning about these experiences may also cause the development of PTSD symptoms. [1] Many servicemen and women getting back from Iraq and Afghanistan have PTSD. [

    If I am not mistaken the military brass under Hilliar are doing something about this . How about clements mckay or Health Canada ?
  24. Jesse Winger from Calgary Southwest, Canada writes: Yup, it's the Libs fault.

    Does any member of the Cons party have anything real to contribute to this debate?
  25. David Griffith from Canada writes: Yet another mess that thankfully, THIS government is cleaning up. See the trend here? Liberals leave messes. They talk about them a lot. The promise things. They study things, ad infinitum. Conservatives ACT on them, and find solutions. Its called governing. Taking notes, Liberals? Or are you perusing The National Inquirer for another "scandal", LOL.
  26. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: I really hope the troops get the support they deserve when they come back. Anyone who wants to see what happens when the government tries to sweep such problems under the rug, read "THE GHOSTS OF MEDAK POCKET" by Carol Off. It is an excellent book that explains our so-called "peacekeeing" mission in Bosnia in 1992-93. I say 'alleged' because our guys were basically in combat, trying to enforce a peace treaty that the warring factions never had any intention of recognizing. Some of the guys who came back committed suicide, including one guy in an apartment on Grant Avenue in Winnipeg in 1995, just a block from my place. When they came back, after being involved not only in combat, but also in recovering the remains of countless civilians who had been massacred, they were basically told not to talk about it, and given no support whatsoever. Both the Mulroney and Chretien governments must share the blame. Mulroney for sending them to the Balkans completely under-equipped, under-trained, and with an impossible job to do, and Chretien for doing NOTHING to help these guys once they came back.
  27. jeff franklin from Canada writes: 'Some C.F. members suffering from addictions'.

    Oh My. What a can o' worms for the CRAPturists and their Puritanical Leader.

    If a C.F. soldier returns to Canada, addicted to Afghan heroin, will that C.F. member be able to access the Insite Clinic in Vancouver?

    Conumdrums for our portly P.M. and his USA Drug War Handlers.

    Why does our P.M. require two shiny full sized GMC Yukons to follow him to and fro?
  28. David Griffith from Canada writes: Or maybe he'd be offered the treatment needed to actually get him OFF his addiction rather than say, "Here's another needle dude. Knock yourself out".
  29. Eileen Reppenhagen from Delta, Canada writes: Our politicians will tell you that they have looked after the troops. Unfortunately, many of the troops with these disabilities or infirmities (not the same thing) may not know about or understand the personal tax credit measures that have been implemented to reduce the tax they or their supportive families pay. There is a very limited budget to disseminate information to everyone who deserves to learn about these measures. The medical discharge office at Esquimalt only learned about these measures last September. Since then, there has been a concerted effort to educate returning troops but is it enough? I doubt it. Disability tax credits that are transferrable, eligible medical expenses, caregiver credits, disability supports expense, child care claims transfers to supportive spouses, the new RDSP that provides for matching grants and bonds that will help fund their retirement. I encourage everyone to find out more by reading RC4064 Medical and Disability Related Information guide available from CRA. Find it on the CRA website or call and order it. On the website type RC4064 or disability into the search engine box on the home page at www.cra.gc.ca. There is information, but Canada Post charges CRA to put guides on the floor in a box in the corner, and librarians don't focus on tax information other than in April. Disability and infirmity, they go on all year and you don't have to wait until next year to apply for the disability tax credit or missed medical expense claims, in fact you can go back 10 years right now.
  30. Gary Thomson from Surrey, BC, Canada writes: Support our troops, indeed. Who is suprised that those needlessly putting our citizen-soldiers in harm's way would also fail to support those that return wounded or traumatized? A wounded or traumatized soldier is an inconvenient soldier, apparently. I say let's really support our soldiers by bringing them home and paying them what civilian contractors are being paid, at least.
  31. William Ross from Victoria BC, Canada writes: This news makes me prouder than ever to be a Canadian who cares for the men and women who serve in our armed forces. The minister is absolutley right smack dab on with this and I am very happy that we are resolving this and treating our forces with more respect and leadership than we have in the past. This is long long overdue and puts the opposition to shame as well as those usual assorted left wing nuts out there who post negative comments about our forces who actually with their negaitive comments only reveal their own ignorance and irrelevance.
  32. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: In reality, the forces themselves acted to delay proper care - the article refers to the "suck it up mentality". Compared to the days when my father was in the services, I sense that the lower ranks and their families feel somewhat more empowered. They will speak up, in public and to the press if necessary, which has the effect of putting pressure on those higher up the chain of command including government. Furthermore, mental illness is much more broadly accepted and discussed now than it was even thirty years ago. I recall that people of my parents' generation made reference to "nerve doctors" and "funny farms". Asking for psychological help is at odds with a organization that speaks of bravery and toughness, not to mention one that claims to protect others. PTSD has been a hidden cost of war and now that we might start paying the full price, we might begin to think twice about engaging in it at all.
  33. Federico Pena from Calgary, Canada writes: Well this current government extended the mission in Kandahar despite the forces there being undermanned and ill-equipped. What does that do for the mental health of the soldiers and their families?
  34. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: It is and was DND's responsibility to care for and protect its own employees. It appears that the higher levels of command found it far easier to complain about the government than to assume that responsibility. No one can tell me that the higher-ups at DND, when confronted with mental illness and other real hardship in the ranks, wouldn't have received a hearing at the cabinet table. They had no difficulty talking the government of the day into spending big bucks for useless UK subs. It's easier to point fingers at government than to recognize internal failures of leadership - just about as easy, in fact, as the current government's constant pointing of fingers at the previous one. The buck ended with DND.
  35. Peter Kells from Bytown, Canada writes: "The federal Minister of Veterans Affairs said yesterday that past governments did not do enough to help Canadian soldiers who returned from combat with service-related mental illnesses."

    It appears that the New Government of Canada can't even do something right without missing an opportunity to blame some kind of failing on their predecessors. It kind of smacks of a holier-than-thou arrogant sanctimonious approach to governing which probably results from their own insecurity.
  36. Pete D from Canada writes: Occupying countries is stressful business...support the dupes, bring them home now!
  37. Somethingessential LostinBC from Canada writes: Good first step.

    How about we ptotect our men and women by NOT sending them to protect the criminal gov't and global supply of heroin known as Afghanistan
  38. The Work Farce from Canada writes: This is certainly good news. Veterans returning from wars with psychological problems have been swept under the carpet for way too long. In the bad old days of the 50's and 60's, psychiatrists made few fine distinctions and most were classified as schizophrenic, lifetime fodder for the psychiatry mills. It was the return of Vietnam vets unable to cope with ordinary life that started the homeless problem in the US in the 1970's. Now the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars are creating more homeless. Hopefully, not even politicians would want to see that happen in Canada. These clinics are a good start, but $9 million for 11,000 vets works out to $800 each. Those 11,000 vets with PTS and other psychological problems - plus the vets who are physically disabled - might have trouble holding a job for the rest of their lives. They are entitled to disability pensions. I have started a campaign to raise the GST back to 7% and utilize the extra 2% in revenues to fund disability pensions for all injured veterans and all injured military personnel, including those who became seriously sick after nuclear experiments in the 1950's and Agent Orange experiments in the 1960's. I hope that all Canadians of good will no matter their politics will support me in my campaign to compensate our disabled veterans.
  39. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Diane, must you run interference for your beloved Liberals with EVERY post?

    "It's easier to point fingers at government than to recognize internal failures of leadership - just about as easy, in fact, as the current government's constant pointing of fingers at the previous one. The buck ended with DND."

    Government screwed up. Saying the buck ended with DND does not excuse the governments of Mulroney, Chretien, Martin, or Harper. Yet you scramble to cover for your beloved liberals. Give it a rest.
  40. Rob Swanson from Edmonton, Cold Lake, Canada writes: Im one of the unknown. My years of service and the problems relating have destroyed my life, taken my family from me, and every single day I wish for something other than the depression and anxiety. All I got from the military the day I left was a thanks for coming and needing to pay for a cab to the front gate as they wouldn't even offer a ride. I hope and understand things are better now, but the promise was NOT kept. I still can't even walk into the local vet affairs office, as I would have to pass the recruiting office wher this all began. Still proud, but I wish to fate things were different.
  41. David Bakody from Dartmouth, Canada writes: Let's get the facts straight! Who moved Canada to the front lines with little or no debate, who did not ask or answer and questions and was not even in the House for the vote so he (Stevie) could not be seen to be on the record should it as it has gone south. Past government my foot!!!!!!!
  42. charlie brown from Canada writes: Um David Bakody. The straight facts are that the Liberal government under Paul Martin moved Canada to the front lines of Kandahar, with no debate at all. The Liberals also supported the extention of the mission to 2009.
  43. Alan Burke from climatechange.dynalias.com in Ottawa, Canada writes: Political polarization here disgusts me.

    If you want hired killers to protect you, be prepared to pay the price when they come home, having been asked to face obscenities in the rest of the world which you could rarely imagine.

    If you'd like to protect your day-to-day life, help a veteran to get over the trauma that you will never have to face because of him.

    It's going to get worse.
  44. Alan Burke from climatechange.dynalias.com in Ottawa, Canada writes: Those who hate war the most are those condemned to fight them, die in them or come back wounded. Speak with a veteran. You might learn something.

    Idiots.
  45. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Alistair:-- My friend, it is the responsibility of DND to take care of its employees. Period. My personal opinion, though those closer to the action may have a different view, is that Rick Hillier was prepared to go to bat for his troops in a way that his predecessors were not. They appear to have been more interested in going to bat for subs. Alistair - I grew up in a military family. My dad wasn't permitted to vote (I can't remember if that rule applied to my mother or not) and military families were admonished to keep a low profile - absolutely NO politics. Things have changed. The stiff upper lip thing is too costly.

    Rob Swanson:-- I'm so very sorry.
  46. Alan Burke from climatechange.dynalias.com in Ottawa, Canada writes: A small suggestion - read about Roy Slemon.

    We came close to Armageddon. Our current soldiers face more traumatic issues with horrors than you can imagine unless you have been there.

    I faced similar issues, of a different kind. Have you seen "Terminator 2, Judgment Day". When the bombs blew?

    Picture the entire urban world in flames. Now picture that being triggered from a cargo ship in Halifax.

    That's the kind of trauma each soldier brings back. Why do we do it if all we get back is crap from you?

    The mission might be wrong but that's not the soldier's choice with rare exceptions. Our veterans deserve the best possible care that we can give.

    BTW, I expect none of it and don't want it.

    But I do ask you to support our troops.
  47. Nick B. from Canada writes: diane marie, that's hogwash. Members of the armed forces have always been, from every indication I can find, permitted to vote. In fact, during a course I was on there was a byelection in one of my peers' home ridings, and seemingly heroic efforts were made to ensure he got to vote in it.

    Bakody, you know as well as I do that the move of Canadian Forces back to Kandahar and into more direct action against the Taliban started in the summer of 2005 when Paul Martin was Prime Minister.
  48. charlie brown from Canada writes: Diane Marie: Don't know what military your father was in. If he was not allowed to vote, it wasn't the Canadian military. Also, once a soldier has left the Forces, it is Veterans Affairs, not DND that addresses any problems.
  49. Craig Scott from Republic of Newfoundland, Canada writes: Federico Pena from Calgary, Canada writes: Well this current government extended the mission in Kandahar despite the forces there being undermanned and ill-equipped. What does that do for the mental health of the soldiers and their families?

    ------------------------------------------------

    I don't think they are undernammed and ill equiped at all. In fact aside from helicopters which they now have access to they are very well equipped, better they have been in a very long time.

    Fact is they are better off in this combat mission mentally then they ever were in some of the so called peace keeping missions that previous governments sent them on with NO rules of engagement.

    Atleast on this mission if they see women being raped, kids being burned alive and people shot in the street they can do something about it. Not like when they were in places like Rwanda where they had to stand by and do nothing....but soak it all in and then live with those memories.
  50. Craig Scott from Republic of Newfoundland, Canada writes: David Bakody from Dartmouth, Canada writes: Let's get the facts straight! Who moved Canada to the front lines with little or no debate, who did not ask or answer and questions and was not even in the House for the vote so he (Stevie) could not be seen to be on the record should it as it has gone south. Past government my foot!!!!!!!

    ----------------

    Actually David it was the Liberals that sis all that and they were perfectly within their rights.

    The Government has the right and only the government can commit our troops anywhere and they don't need a vote, debate or permission of Parliment.
  51. A good Canadian from Canada writes: From the article:

    "The federal Minister of Veterans Affairs said yesterday that past governments did not do enough to help Canadian soldiers who returned from combat with service-related mental illnesses. "

    Yes, "past governments" Chretians Liberal government all but ignored increasing cases of PTSD and mental illness, by cutting medical and mental services in the CF during the 90's and cutting health care payments to the proveinces.
  52. Steve D from St. John's, Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes: It's disgusting enough that our soldiers are suffering but even more low down to blame it on past governments. The COns are the most disgusting bunch ever to appear in this country's Parliament ......... Outrageous and disgusting ........... Kenneth Yurchuk from Toronto, Canada writes: "Okay, so the minister has acknowledged the problem and outlined a few steps to combat the problem. This is a positive but still inadequate response, and the partisan shot at the previous government, while warrented, still reeks of political opportunism. Can't this Government find a way of once doing something right without immediately cheapening the gesture with a partisan shot?" You and I both don't know what the Minister actually said about the previous governements actions or non-actions because it wasn't in the story. Two things I am positive that he didn't say is "Ottawa shirked duty to soldiers" and "Previous governments haven't done enough to help returning troops deal with a variety of mental afflictions"--the headline and tagline of the story. If he did indeed say these things then they would have been in quotes. The partisan shots you identified are actually the G&M's paraphrasing/distortion what what was actually said. Maybe what was said was worse but it was not those things. They do this constantly so you should be aware of this tendency. You have no reason to attack the Minister and his governement on these facts. You should both apologize.
  53. Steve D from St. John's, Canada writes: David Bakody from Dartmouth, Canada writes: "Let's get the facts straight! Who moved Canada to the front lines with little or no debate, who did not ask or answer and questions" That would be the Liberals. No Debate, no vote. Check your facts. Harper's conservatives, had a debate and a vote to extend the combat role that the Liberals started. While the debate wasn't lengthy, it was certainly long enough for the NDP, the Bloc and the cut-and-run branch of the Liberals to say the same dumb stuff over and over. The bloodthirsty branch of Liberals saw the wisdom of Mr. Harper's reasoned approach and provided the margin of Mr. Harper's temendous victory. Recall that this was when the Liberals still voted in the HoC. This reminds me of Sen. Hugh Segal's thought provoking essay today. The reason civil debate is hard to have as that you lefties are for the most part stupid, ignorant, gutless liars and sneaks. As a conservative I must admit that it is difficult to remain civil with people you detest so thoroughly. I honestly don't know how I do it. Come back when you get your facts straight, grow some brain cells, and are ready to have an honest discussion and I'm sure we'll be able to keep it civil. I don't think that will happen by Monday but have a nice weekend anyway.
  54. Steve D from St. John's, Canada writes: Did I mention humourless?
  55. Donalda Williams Clogg from Hudson, Canada writes: Our soldiers give so much of themselves for Canada in this particular war in Afghanistan. It is important that the government look after their interests and their wellbeing when they return either injured in body or mind. It is reassuring news that the Department of Veteran Affairs is doing something about this necessary care.
  56. Bill Thompson from Calgary, Canada writes: Diane Marie and her soccer-mom mentality rules the waves again. They are not employees Diane; they are soldiers and your posts clearly demonstrate you haven’t got a clue what the difference is. Suck it-up mentality? You bet and they had better do so. What they have to deal with is ugly because it is war&8230;and war is ugly. >>> It takes mental toughness to not only survive but to be able to fight and soldier on. But too many liberal ideas, soccer-momisms included, plus watered down training over the past 25 years, destroyed the tough training that was needed to harden these soldiers to combat. As a result they were not ready to face the mental and physical realities of their profession. You and your attitudes are to blame Diane. You forced our governments to apply liberal and watered-down training. You and your ilk turned our Armed Forces into a social experiment. Shame on you. Go stick your attitude in your ear and let real soldiers get on with the job at hand.
  57. Catherine Medernach from Winnipeg, Canada writes: Alistair McLaughlin you are correct about the impact the Medak Pocket events had on the troops. Romeo Dallaire also paid the price of a UN mission in Rwanda. The powerless of soldier wearing the blue berets did a lot of psychological damage. The lack of recognition of the deaths on UN missions (186) did not help either. BTW PPCLI did eventually receive a unit citation for the Medak Pocket battle. One other interesting piece of information is that Croat Minister of Defence responsible for the ethnic cleansing in the Medak Pocket was a Canadian citizen.
  58. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Nick B. and Charlie Brown:-- Hmmm. This is definitely my childhood memory, but upon doing a bit of research I realize that it can't possibly have been the case. My father is deceased, but I will ask my mother about it. Thanks for the correction. Another family mystery...it won't be the first. My apologies.

    Bill Thompson:-- You date yourself when you employ the pejorative term "soccer-mom". It is a voting demographic term that has since been discredited. Considering that I am not nor ever have been a mother, I could not possibly be a soccer-mom. The rest of your post makes equally little sense. The so-called tough training that took place before you could possibly attribute it to/blame it on liberals/Liberals (WWI/WWII/Korea) still resulted in soldiers returning from war with (understandable) psychological problems.
  59. Bill Thompson from Calgary, Canada writes: Diane Marie: I am not surprised that you do not understand. If you can stomach it, try watching Hamburger Hill. There you will see soldiers actually sucking it up. It is not pretty. >>>You clearly have nothing in your experience to match it and that is just fine. Fortunately for you and me there are soldiers on the front line prepared to take on the burden of defending our freedoms and way of life. Accept that…you need not ask how they do it.
  60. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Bill Thompson:-- I have watched lots of war movies, Bill, who hasn't? I have even spent two weeks visiting WWI and WWII graveyards, memorials, museums, etc. in Belgium, France, and Netherlands. I lived with my parents in West Germany (near the former Siegfried Line) in the late 1950s, where evidence of the destruction (human and architectural) from WWII (and even WWI) was an everyday fact. My parents did not shield me from it, either. I visited Dachau as a 10-year-old and was very troubled by what I saw for some time after. The "you need not ask how they do it" comment is troubling. To fail to take an interest and ask questions is to abdicate one's responsibilities as a citizen. I perceive that you have issues with women posters (maybe all women), Bill, which have nothing to do with the topic at hand.
  61. Bill Thompson from Calgary, Canada writes: Diane: I have a problem with women posters? Womens Issues???? Where did that come from? I thought we were talking about combat and what it takes to survive and still do the job. >>>It strikes me that too many folks resort to the racist argument, or to homophobic accusations, or religious intolerance or in this case, womens issues in an attempt to discredit or otherwise put the other debater on the defensive. Diane, if I may suggest, the only one who has a problem with womens issues is you. I certainly know where I stand on the matter. And, as to the subject at hand, I am also very confident in my position regarding the training and lack there-of that has happened over the past number of years. Face the facts, you have no experience that can relate and can never understand the ethos or culture needed to protect our freedoms and way of life.
  62. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Bill Thomson:-- When you resort to addressing a fellow poster as a "soccer mom", it does bespeak a bit of male arrogance. This would be akin to my calling you an "angry white male". You will note, I hope, that I never refer to posters as posting from their parents' basement, and I try very hard not to categorize them. Despite this, I did note a degree of hostility emanating from your posts that did not seem measured. You didn't, for example, lash out at True North or I R. Maybe we have a history of which I'm not aware ;-).

    I do know one thing, Bill. I am convinced that my freedoms and so-called way of life are not entirely dependent upon an ethos and culture that I apparently don't understand. Indeed, there are times when I have the impression that that ethos and culture may have an entirely opposite and deleterious effect - which is why, I might add, I reserve the right to take an interest in it, perhaps even to form an opinion. This latter right, I might add, comes with what you referred to as my protected freedoms and way of life. I realize that it's a double-edged sword: simultaneously used to justify action and derided as uninformed and misunderstood. Damn! that democracy is an inconvenience.
  63. Bill Thompson from Calgary, Canada writes: Well when the shoe fits Diane, I guess we all have to wear it and that includes me as an angry white guy although not that old yet. I confess that as time goes by, I become increasingly impatient with those such as True North and IR who insist in persistently being obtuse for the sake of being so. Stude Ham is another one who lacks in open mindedness and even LB Murphy is very reluctant to concede a point even when they are so flagrantly caught out. >>>You however are a far more worthy opponent. At least you are prepared to acknowledge and give way on a point every now and then. R. Carriere has a similar characteristic. Open minds willing to take on the debate, furious as it may be at times. That is where our thick skins come in handy. In the meantime I apologize if I sounded hostile…put it down to my angry whiter bluntness. As an angry white guy I am fed up with taking the shots and being made out to be the fool&8230;it was guys like me and our spouses, who built this country over the past 141 years&8230;Franco-phone and Scottish heritages are the back-bone of this country. We ignore it at our peril.
  64. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Bill Thompson:-- It has been an interesting exchange. Have a very nice weekend, Bill. At least we now have a bit of sun :-).
  65. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Bill:-- Small note - I didn't call you an "angry white male". I made the point that I wouldn't do that in order to advance an argument. BTW, change is the one constant in our lives, though it is not always easy to accept. Every generation distrusts the following generations' ability to manage matters, but they're the ones who have to live in the present, which for us will be the unknowable future.
  66. Prairie Boy from Canada writes: Iltis jeeps. It used to be said that when a convoy was held up the standing joke was it was the Canadians.

    Vern et al can foam and fume but the L's put them there with nothing so I wouldn't have expected much on the touchy-feely front. Alister was spot on about the Medoc Pocket. Canadian troops were under artillery fire, never lost anyone and killed as I remember 37 or 38. They were not allowed to speak because Chretien was selling it as a "peace" mission.
  67. Gordon M from Nanaimo, Canada writes: I disagree with the concept of a Canadian Military. It is a useless waste of taxpayer money. Our military can never be substantial enough to protect us from a foreign invasion and speaking of which, exactly who is it that they are protecting us from?? HOWEVER, if the Canadian public and the politicians on Parliament Hill insist on wasting these millions of dollars on a military, then we have the obligation to treat these individuals with respect and decency! Should a Canadian agree to serve in the Military, regardless of rank or training, they should be paid a decent wage, given decent benefits, and for damn sure we should look after them for as long as they need it when they suffer physical or psychological injury as a result of our decision to send them to where ever! These are Canadians! We don't abandon them, no matter how misguided our intentions are. If we choose to hire them for this task that I disagree with, then we as a country are morally bound to care for them and the effects of our commands, in perpetuity. In addition, we must not forget their immediate families. I still think we should bring them home, now!
  68. Andrew Toth from Oliver, BC, Canada writes: I for one am happy to see this funding go to help these soldeirs and their families. Mental illness is life changeing; these people need all the medical help that the Canadian Government can channel their way. I understand what depression is. I understand that years are involved with any course of recovery. I have found out also that the Canadian Public knows very little about mental illnesses; we are very far behind some other countries; way behind. To think that a country as properous as ours, with an armed forces
    is behind to the degree that we are is really shocking to me. Very behind the times, indeed.

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