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GM to close Windsor transmission plant in 2010

GREG KEENAN

Globe and Mail Update

Latest comment posted at 12:25 PM EST 12/05/08

Move will eliminate about 1,400 jobs; auto maker announces decision as part of its negotiations with the Canadian Auto Workers union ...Read the full article

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  1. Tim Cares from Canada writes: It should be illegal for any jurisdiction to give companies money or tax incentives to move to a city or keep plants open.
    This is just corporate welfare.
  2. Johnn Baraka from Victoria, Canada writes: Excellent news! Keep shutting the car plants down.
  3. Trevor Ouellette from Canada writes:
    This is a expensive Canadian dollar problem. Nothing more, nothing less.
  4. A Realist from Canada writes: correction - this is an expensive labour problem.
  5. A Calgarian from Canada writes: Buzz hargrove is a idiot....GM is having lots of issues, so let's cripple it more by going on strike.
  6. Johnny Canuck from Canada writes: If you have ever surpervised in a union shop you will understand why companies are so desperate to move their union shop work out into non union shops. Governments have money trees to deal with their Unions while businesses lure investors to pony up the money.
  7. Free The West from Free the West, BC, Canada writes: Actually, the expensive dollar means the labour is more expensive as well. This all goes to show how, for decades, the Ontario manufacturing sector and Ontario labour unions were being subsidized by the low Canadian dollar. Also true for the lumber industry nationwide. And the tourist industry. Just as long as people realize that overall it is still better for Canada as a whole to have a high value dollar.
  8. Sean L. from Toronto Center, Canada writes: If we are going into the corporate welfare business, why not just take the 700 million dollar investemnt they want, and give each of the 1400 layed off workers halh a million each? It's not like GM is going to create 1400 new jobes, or even replace the 1400 they are eliminating.

    Lets just end corporate panhandling - instead Dalton can offer all businesses reduced corporate taxes - of course that would mean he would have to cut some of his pork programs.
  9. Guess Who from Canada writes: Ontario is doom, but it was living for a while artificially because
    of a too-low canadian dollar. This is the reality.
    Be ready Ontarians to receive a dose of equalization payments.
    You should not be ashame of being relatively poorer.
    May be you are because being rich was the only reason for you
    to live in this province. Now, be free and go live somewhere else
    where the quality of life is just better.
    Do you guys really want to live in cities like Windsor? Really?
  10. R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    Even while announcing the shift elimination in Oshawa and the plant closing in Windsor, GM is seeking financial help from the Ontario and federal governments for new investment to assemble transmissions at an engine plant in St. Catharines, Ont., and to continue research and development operations at its regional engineering centre in Oshawa, Ont.

    Those plans involve an investment of about $700-million.

    $700 MILLION? To partially fund the R&D of a publically traded company? R&D for what? Accountable to whom? $700 MILLION to fund a company teetering on bankrupcy? Who has watched by idly as Toyota claimed the number 1 position.

    NEW YORK:General Motors is far from being a market player with hybrid vehicle.

    GM sold 843 hybrids of all types during the first quarter of 2008, according to the industry newspaper Automotive News. That's right: 843. There are no missing zeroes. About 655 of them were full-size GMC and Chevrolet hybrid SUVs.

    Compare that with Ford, which sold 5,225 hybrids during that time. The hands-down hybrid leader, Toyota, sold 278,000 in the U.S. alone last year and 430,000 worldwide.....

    Maybe instead of engaging a loser.....

    .
  11. Rain Couver from Canada writes: 'Canadian Auto Workers union president Buzz Hargrove said last week that if GM does not invest in new products for Windsor and St. Catharines as well as the Oshawa truck and car assembly plants, his union will go on strike against the auto maker this September.'

    >>Does he honestly think that he is empowered at this point? Sorry, go on strike and see even more GM jobs melt away.
  12. Johnny Canuck from Canada writes: Why doesn't the CAW union, with the fanacial backing of their other Canadian Unions, open up their own car plant? They have the money, they have the know how and are up to date with the on going Buzz.
  13. crazy billy from Canada writes: Do like Flaherty said: lower your taxes, companies that can make a viable business here will set up shop, others will go elsewhere, no more corporate welfare with our tax dollars
  14. George Duncan from Canada writes: Trevor Oullette above, you should do some homework concerning 'expensive Canadian dollar problem'. Some industries simply did not want to/could not adjust to the reality that the loonie below par with the greenback would not continue forever. Those industries that are falling victim had to look for efficiencies and a different and better/improved way of doing business. The loonie at par or better is a true dose of reality for many.
  15. The Objectivist from overpopulated and growing Toronto, Canada writes: yeah Realist was right, the low dollar was a resulted from high labour costs, remember that price parity thingy? Unfortunately our neighbour's plan of having the military sowing the seeds of democracy has all but bankrupted them, tanking their currency. Now what? get our cars made in China?

    It does make you stop and think though about the truly wonderful job unions have done toward ensuring the long term sustainability of Canadian, particularly manufacturing, jobs. Magnificent, way to go Bob & Buzz! The busy B's of raping and pillaging a once strong manufacturing economy. What's invisible and sadder still are the 10's of thousands of jobs that didn't moved, but where created offshore because who would ever want to expand and grown manufacturing here with unilateral draconian labor laws.
  16. MQ9 Reaper from Canada writes: Johnny Canuck - and what vehicle would this all-union car plant produce - The Trabant? I'm sure former East Germans would be happy to sell Buzz the blueprints.
  17. james p from Canada writes: Time the CAW courted China? India? Duuuuuhhh.
  18. Dick Dead-Eye from Fiji writes:

    If Buzz wants to have a strike he better hurry before the car industry shuts down completely. Regrettably Buzz and his friend Dalton fail to publicly recognize that GM no longer has a healthy market to sell it's products and the UAW is competing with the CAW for jobs. Again, we need to ask why anyone would wish to invest or continue to invest in Ontario.
  19. otto von abbatoir from Los Angeles, United States writes: Too bad Buzz doesn't save his energy to organize the Japanese plants in Canada. He can than convince them how critical the CAW is to making good cars... Hopefully he'll still be around to negotiate with the Chinese when they buy GM in 2013.
  20. W. Mayne from Canada writes: Time for Flaherty to open his mouth again and tell foreign companies not to invest in Ontario! McGuinty is trying to encourage investment in Ontario to help replace these jobs and Flaherty in trying to ensure that Ontario receives federal equilization payments!
  21. ali mansur from Etobicoke, Canada writes: Close the plants. Although, I'm sure working in car plant is tough work, it ain't any tougher than doing anything else. The difference is that somehow they're paid a crazy amount of money to do their job.

    How about the soon-to-be laid off GM workers get certified to be tradespersons, where they can make the same amount of money? Oh wait, that's because they'll actually have to work and forego 4 hours of smoke breaks a week.
  22. john smith from Canada writes: stop talking about strong dollar, it is still cheaper to make cars in ontario (public health care). we need to increase productivity

    long term you achieve nothing with GM or Chrysler so just quit this GM already, company is doomed. next 20 years belongs to energy efficient cars. start talking about opening new plants with europeans, japanese, koreans and perhaps tata, they all know better how to build cars in XXI century.
  23. Joe Canada from Kingston, Canada writes: The climate change flag wavers should applaud this decision.

    Lost jobs and a blow to the economy is good for the environment.

    (As long as it happens to someone else.)
  24. Art Vandelai from Burlington, Canada writes: The job losses in the Canadian automotive sector are substantial, but are very much representative of our share of the North American industry. Ontario has more auto manufacturing capacity than any jurisdiction including Michigan, and its economy is likely headed in the same direction as Detroit's if we continue to throw tax money at the auto makers.

    Plants are being closed everywhere througout the Rust Belt, due to high costs, and poor demand.

    Getting rid of union contracts, and reducing the value of the C$ won't change that paradigm. Adjusting to the reality of a $1.25/litre, and soon to be $2.00/litre of gasoline will happen. That adjustment means fewer and smaller (less profitable) cars sold, and fewer workers in the auto sector. Buzz may not like it, but it's inevitable.
  25. Old blue from Canada writes: W. Mayne from Canada writes: Time for Flaherty to open his mouth again and tell foreign companies not to invest in Ontario! McGuinty is trying to encourage investment in Ontario to help replace these jobs and Flaherty in trying to ensure that Ontario receives federal equilization payments!
    ---------------------

    Yeah right....it's all Flaherty's fault that the capital taxes in Ontario are the highest in Canada. Any company would be crazy to invest in this province with the tax load that McGuinty is imposing on all. McGuinty must think that all businessmen are truly stupid and are happy to pay extra taxes for his wonderful programs.
    Such are the benefits of voting that bozo back into power...Ontario residents are soooo naiive.
  26. Old blue from Canada writes: Buzz believes that those cars made in Cambridge are foreign cars which needs to be stopped.
    The reality is that the Japanese and others have discovered what N. Americans want in a car and that they don't need a unionized environment to achieve that goal.
  27. Robert Boyd from Windsor, Canada writes: And since the Canadian $ is worth less than their 'tanked' dollar - it follows that our something, something has bankrupted us ???
    I don't get the logic that brags that a currency that is barely on par with a currency that's worth less than it used to be, is a 'good' thing..

    ' The Objectivist from overpopulated and growing Toronto, Canada writes: Unfortunately our neighbour's plan of having the military sowing the seeds of democracy has all but bankrupted them, tanking their currency.'
  28. Old blue from Canada writes: Manitoba's a manufacturing province and they're aren't going through comparable jobs losses vs. Ontario...so when posters suggest that it's due to the Canadian dollar you may want to redo your McGuinty apologist story.
  29. Common sense is BACK! from Canada writes: .

    Thank you Mr. Flaherty. You're leadership on economic issues is very much appreciated.
  30. T G from Canada writes: A high Canadian dollar also makes imported parts and components cheaper. The cost of purchased inputs at an auto assembly plant far outweighs the cost of the labour required to put them together.

    This is an overcapacity problem and GM has to choose which locations to close. They also build transmissions in Ypsilanti, Warren, Toledo and Allison, IN, all of which are significantly older than the Windsor Transmission. This is GM posturing for a handout.
  31. Randy D from Canada writes: Everyday more evidence the third world is becoming what we once were while we become this over-governed socialist/unionist over-taxed state where the parasites are king and the contributors are dogs**t.
    A friend recently told me she likes to go to Mexico where it reminds of her of Canada in the 50's: people riding around in the back of pickups, riding bikes without helmuts, smoking without being made to feel like a leper, hi-viz vests for gas jockeys and I could go on and on.
    We were once the entrepreneurial, adventurous types, but now we are the whining, snivelling, ones quivering in the corner at every perceived injustice and potential threat. We have lost what we once were. We are going to be the new 'third' world. It is only a matter of time.
  32. Chris Kempan from Canada writes: The employees can thank their union.
  33. Craig Scott from Republic of Newfoundland, Canada writes: Who cares, it is only 1400 jobs. These guys can go and get retraining and get jobs in another sector.

    I am so sick of hearing about their problems.
  34. Randal Oulton from Canada writes: >> Those plans involve an investment of about $700-million

    Investment? I think that's modern bafflegab for what we used to call a handout. Your eye-care dollars at work. Sigh.
  35. Michael Sharp from Victoria BC, Canada writes:

    The most popular vehicle built and sold in Ontario is the Ford F150 pick-up truck.

    That pretty much sums up the woes of the Ontario automotive industry.

    V8 pick-up trucks.

    Staying one step ahead of the competition.
  36. Rachel .. commenting from Hollywood North, Canada writes: The first thing out of the union chief's mouth, is to threaten to strike on news of the struggling company problems.

    Hope this is not typical for powerful union leadership in general.

    Otherwise, at the risk of seeing some personal suffering, I am almost please to see no assistance from the government, let the closure take place or the company and union to sink or swim on their own merit.
  37. Michael Sharp from Victoria BC, Canada writes:

    How's that Dodge Challenger plant going?

    Big demand for muscle cars these days as I understand it.

    Ontario, stuck in the 60s.
  38. DON BARTA from Canada writes: Yo, Senator Hargrove: Now that your talks with GM have resulted in the loss of 1400 jobs - why don't you ask your new liberal friend Daulton Dolittle for that $700,000,000.oo and like a poster above suggested, give half a million to each worker that will lose their job.

    It looks like there is no limit to corporate welfare or corporate greed.........
  39. Rick C from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes:

    'The yahoos drop Hargrove's name as if they knew him personally or want to ..............'

    No one wants to know Buzz Vern....he's a cancer in this country that needs to be removed.
  40. donald traverse from st johns, Canada writes: For years we have had to swallow our pride and take the jokes about us being a welfare state and welfare bums, from all corners of this country.It sure doesn't make any one feel batter about someone elses struggles,yet some on this forum find it funny.Hopefully others in other provinces realize that one povinces struggle is and should be everyone's concern.Thay my friends is the only topic that we should all be discussing.
  41. J Law from Canada writes: R. Carriere from Maritimes

    I think I remember the what the word 'jetison' means and I think it is time for our government to jetison some of the tax sucking industries for newer more productive ones with brighter futures.
  42. Lowen Wrainger from Canada writes: Does this mean that those soon to be un-employed workers will find jobs in the emerging Ontario 'Green' economy? If Harper & Flaherty have their vindictive way, then it'll be the cut off 'Gang-Green' economy. Ontario won't have a leg to stand on.
  43. Bob costas from Canada writes: I'm sad to see more bad news for the city of Windsor. And although this isn't all the unions fault, they must take a lot of the blame. Not all union workers are over paid. The biggest problem is the Janitors who are getting paid as much as the Skilled Trade workers. When someone can aspire to be a Janitor and make $70 and hour something is wrong.

    The CAW needs to make drastic changes to secure any jobs and unfortunatly Ford already set the pattern which isn't nearly enough to insure a long term future for GM, Ford, or Chrysler.
  44. Pretty Much Sane from Canada writes: Unnatural anomaly: Buzz, the CAW and Brenda Martin should just clam up and disappear altogether. All 3 of them do nothing but consistently whine, cry and sniffle. You create your own problems and cry to the government for help. Once saved, you start criticizing again. If I never hear or see another one of them it will be too soon. Jeez, get a life.
  45. Hugo Hall from Calgary, Canada writes: The fact is that Ontario's economy is taking a beating because the provincial government got caught flat-footed with an over-reliance on 'big 3' auto manufacturing jobs and an undervalued currency and no contingency plans in the event of an economic shift. While The federal Finance Minister was inappropriately stepping into matters of provincial jurisdiction with his condemnation of the Ontario Government's taxation policies, turns out he was at least partially right. This also shows what a lousy investment 'corporate welfare'-style subsidies to the Big 3 have turned out to be - in spite of them, the job losses keep coming.
  46. J. Kenneth Yurchuk from Canada writes: Free the West Writes: Just as long as people realize that overall it is still better for Canada as a whole to have a high value dollar.

    ___________________________________________________________

    How so FTW? And remember, you said Canada, not just 'the west' or Alberta'. Please outline all of the advantages of a 'strong' Canadian dollar? And while you aqre at it please also outline all of the 'disadvantages of a 'weak' Canadian dollar. I, personally would love to see a Can$ pegged at $0.80 or $0.85.
  47. Grumpy The Grump from Canada writes: Quick! Give GM millions of dollars in tax rebates and incentives and blame Quebec in the process!
  48. Howard Young from Canada writes: For those of you who don' know, Canada is an export nation. As a country we manufacture more goods then we can consume. These exports are what fuel our economy. If we only manufactured enough to meet domestic demand our overall standard of living would be lower.

    The strength of our $ relative to the US $ has more to do with U.S. economic situation then the demand from outsiders for our currency to purchase Canadian made goods our resources.

    Since the U.S. is our largest trading partner, having a strong dollar relative to this country is a BAD thing. Why, because if it costs America more to buy from Canada, U.S. manufacturers become more competitive in relation and demand will shift away from Canada and towards the U.S.

    If you think the CDN $ will stay strong relative to the US $, forget about it. The present situation is not equilibrium. If it is equilibrium, the Canadian economy is doomed unless our population suddenly grows exponentially to increase domestic consumer demand and offset the loss of exports.
  49. Richard . from Canada writes: I love how people post comments on this subject suggesting that politicians have a significant positive or negative influence. Also, on the concept of 'corporate welfare' as though there is a definitive distinction between Ontario government investment in the auto-sector and direct and indirect 'externalities' enjoyed to some degree by all economic sectors. Cause we all know that other service, manufacturing, resource extraction, agricultural and energy sectors weren't founded on public investment and protectionism...oh wait they were. Well because of our coddling we will soon get killed by foreign competition from China and India who know the true meaning of capitalism...oh, wait their economic sectors are also being centrally planned and rely on public investment and regulatory protection.
  50. peter grant from Calgary, Canada writes: Is the strong Canadian dollar the culprit?

    Auto factories in Cambridge Ontario and Aliston Ontario, managed by Toyota and Honda respectively, seem to be doing just fine.
  51. Howard Young from Canada writes: Peter, yes GM has its own problems not tied to currency.

    If the CDN/US exchange remains where it is. Companies like Toyota and Honda will continue to do fine, however, they will do fine in the U.S. where it will become cheaper to operate relative to Canada.
  52. got nothing to Say to you from Windsor, Canada writes: out of a job, keep voting for unions.
  53. The Oracle from Caiman Islands, Canada writes: Conservatives destroy industry. Peddle Alberta Oil.
  54. B Well from Brampton, Canada writes: Letting the auto indusry wither away because you hate unions is petty, ideological, and stupid. Let's hope the fed Tories don't think this way; the tea leaves aren't looking good. The Cdn dollar is overvalued mainly because of high oil prices. This is good for oil-rich provinces, Cdn companies wanting to buy foreign assets, and people buying imported TVs and taking holidays in the Caribbean. It is bad for the manufacturing base and for a diversified economy. It is also a recipe for inflation - see Dutch Disease.

    Stop confusing the word 'subsidy' with 'policy'. Do we really want a national economy based on shipping crude oil and raw logs to the U.S.? I can assure they they'll be happy to ship us the finished goods, all the more as we dance to their currency tune. Flaherty should have made clear the Cdn dollar was overvalued six months ago but he's too intent on ruining Ontario's economic base in order to prove his point that it's going to get ruined. The spin offs of this will hurt the smug entrepeneurs as much as the blue collars.
  55. Steve D from St. John's, Canada writes: Obvious alert:

    The problem isn't the high dollar, nor is it high union wages and certainly not that there haven't been enough grants and subsidies. No amount of subsidy is going to help a situation where the companies insist on making products that people don't want to buy. People will pay higher prices for better quality more relevant designs so price is not the problem.

    If they want to give $700 million to get jobs give it to someone who can do something with it, like Toyota or Honda.
  56. SoTiredoftheBS inTO from Canada writes: GM and it's ilk are doomed unless they completely revamp their model lines. The ever rising cost of fuel will relegate their vehicles to dinosaur status. Buzz and his gang of thieves don't realize that if they want to save their jobs for the short to medium term they are going to have to rollback their excessive wage and benefit packages and hope that the US automakers will have a moment of divine revelation and make cars the average punter can afford to buy and fill with fuel. If not the US manufacturers will protect their own and move more Canadian Jobs to the US or bring product from Europe.

    Maybe the CAW should open an MDI air car franchise www.mdi.lu/eng/. These 90 mph air driven cars will be on the market by 2010 in the US. They get about 106 mpg and with their 8 gal tank have an 800 mile range, as the fuel drives only a compressor to fill the air tanks. They will all be made locally see Zero Pollution Motors for the US distributor zeropollutionmotors.us. Tata Motors from India has already licensed the technology.
    See the future it full of hot air perfect for the CAW.
  57. Michael Sharp from Victoria BC, Canada writes:

    Ford F150s.
    Dodge Challengers.

    Ontario automotive industry implodes from the weight of it's own stupidity.

    Retool.

    Build Green.

    Freaking idiots.
  58. Popeye Dillon from North Vancouver, Canada writes: Sad to hear 1400 workers are losing their jobs period. Whose fault or why is not the issue. The auto pact created a lot of jobs over the years but it also prevented Canada from developing its own auto industry. If the Swedes can develop quality cars like Volvo and Saab why can't we?
  59. Late 4 Work from Canada writes: The plant is closing because they build 4 speed transmissions. GM wants all of there vehicles to have 6 speed transmissions, which are already built elsewhere.

    All of you dummies out there blaming the union and smiling as you put-put around town with over-priced and over-rated imports know zero about the auto industry. What is in your driveway has killed the wealth that North American manufacturing once provided for North America.

  60. Late 4 Work from Canada writes: Michael Sharp, Think Toyota Tundra, Toyota 4Runner, Toyota Sequoia, Honda Ridgeline, Honda Pilot, Nissan Armada.

    You aren't too sharp when it comes to the auto industry. Living in BC how could you understand it.

    I just wish we in Ontario could buy lumber from Japan, to teach you import lovers a lesson about the economy.
  61. bob london from Canada writes: Does anyone own one of these cars? Could that be the problem?

    BTW Vernie; fought with Buzz before Freighliner moved to St Thomas from BC. Useless then and useless now, just this time instead of moving accross the country the jobs are leaving for good.

    We do have the guy's to build good cars, just the economic and tax environment to scare them away. Ask Burnaby 1992 and now Windsor 2008. 16 years longer for your Ontario's chickens to roost.
  62. Andrew Pakula from Caledon, Canada writes: If Buzz Hargrove thinks he can go on strike over this then he is delusional, GM will simply close up the shop even earlier if they do that.
  63. Late 4 Work from Canada writes: Old blue,

    Honda and Toyota workers in Ontario have been riding off the backs of the CAW for too long. Do you honestly think Honda and Toyota workers there would be making $31/hr if it weren't for the unions knocking on the door?
  64. Don Adams, The Conservative Centrist from Canada writes: Typical of Buzz. Kill the goose that laid the golden egg. BUT, blame also has to be placed against the Big 3 for not building cars people want.
    _______________________________________________________________

    I sure as h*ll don't want to see ANY money thrown at the Big 3. Let them die.... we'll still have a car industry based here in Canada, only it'll now be the Big 3 Toyota, Nissan and Honda. There won't be any shortage of vehicles.... they'll just ramp up production to fill the void. Possibly even take over some GM plants, hire all new, non union workers. Probably the best thing to happen to the auto industry here in Canada.

    _____________________________________________________________

    Best thing that could happen to Buzz? I won't go there as the G&M wouldn't publish my post :-)

    Sufficient to say, he's no longer needed...in fact, he's a liability.... to Canada as a whole.
  65. John Loucks from Canada, Canada writes: Late 4 Work from Canada writes: The plant is closing because they build 4 speed transmissions. GM wants all of there vehicles to have 6 speed transmissions, which are already built elsewhere.

    All of you dummies out there blaming the union and smiling as you put-put around town with over-priced and over-rated imports know zero about the auto industry. What is in your driveway has killed the wealth that North American manufacturing once provided for North America.

    Actually, the units in our driveways are a direct result of the prior junk put in our driveways by the North American industry. The imports are neither overpriced nor overrated if you rarely have to take them to the shop and when you do, they get fixed. Imagine that.
  66. D K from Here, Canada writes: Too bad for the folks in Windsor. Spin off jobs are also affected too. I'm mostly dissappointed with GM since they took government money to build 6 speed tranny's in St. Catherines and then turned their back on the Windsor workers who have the expertise in building the most sophisticated part of any car. Most of all, the St. Catherines facility doesn't start production until 2009 (one year too early). Oh well, business is business.
    Don't buy a future car from GM if it has the 5/6 speed automatic inside. Most likey there will be quality issues since the workers won't have the expertise in building them.
    As for Toyota being number 1, they too are having quality issues and are no different than GM.
    On the bigger picture, the dumb Liberals should not be chasing after manufacturing jobs. Their payout doesn't keep up with inflation and manufacturers will only race to the bottom to build whatever society wants which just lowers Ontario's GDP and standard of living. Hello have not status.
  67. M Lennox from Toronto, Canada writes: Same to all the people hoping Ontario will suffer. The Ontario economy is still about 4 times larger than Alberta’s or BC. A 10 percent drop in Ontario is equal 30 percent in Alberta. That&8217;s a big piece of the tax pie. We all benefit from the prosperity of Ontario and we may be limping now but not even the oil sands can help this country if Ontario falls.
  68. Chris E. from Canada writes: And when we no longer build anything, Canadians will just be drawers of water and hewers of wood. An economy of low-paying stupid jobs, shipping our resources elsewhere and getting paid little for them. Canada, a once great country, now a casualty of globalization.
  69. J F from Canada writes: Sad news for Ontario. What is even worse ,is that some people from the west, though a very small group ,seem to revel in the misfortune of Ontario. Don't know why they do it
    Some show up on this web site.
    Very sad
  70. Norm Albert from Canada writes: I'm Impressed. just when you thought there was no limit to their stupidity.
    Pooring money into Gas powered vehicles and loosing their shirts doing it just Boogles my mine. It 's like a competion to see who can go belly up first. The big 3(lol) and Clinton have one thing in common.
    The just don't know how to hang up the skates.
    They have had the technology for at least a decade to build alternate means of transportation but failed to capitalise on it.
    See" who killed the electric car"
    They would rather die a death of a thousand cuts than face reality and be the leaders in new technology.
  71. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes:
    Tory times are hard times.
    The dollar if managed properly by the federal government and the bank of Canada would be at 85 cents US.
    Investment would be pouring in. Canadians would have energy security(instead of Americans) and our future would be bright.

    Instead we have sold off our resources cheaply to outsiders (Inco) and killed our bread and butter, Auto manufacturing.
  72. Bildebergers beware you've robbed your last grave from Canada writes: I recently sent and email to Buzz Hargrove asking him why he hasn't supported both Dynasty Cars, of Vancouver, and ZENN Cars of Toronto. I suggestd that this would be a good way to protect possivble members and also promote a "Made in Canada" solution to teh fossil fuel dinosaurs we are currently forced to purchase...

    Guess what?

    No rsponse.

    Buzz would rather turtle and die thanpromote something positive.

    His, and his membership's, determination to hold on to the dwindling BIG3 jobs is not only misguided but down right desperate. Instead of clamouring for the government to pour money into losing ventures he should be looking out for his membership (present and future) to ensure an answer against the inevitable closure of these plants.

    Godd luck CAW!
  73. Andrew Doesborgh from Hamilton, Canada writes: They'll all be happy to know there are plenty of jobs in the Accommodation and Food Services industries.

    What a joke. Stop handing out money to these losers. There is a whole world of OTHER manufacturing out there that could use the support if it's going to be handed out. Put this money into manufacturing renewable energy equipment or something worth while.
  74. juice orange from Canada writes: Maybe Oil companies should subsidies G.M's big cars and trucks. They would go hand-in- hand, One fuels the other!
  75. Rusty Waters from Canada writes: Harper is expanding the arm forces. Maybe he will build war machines in Ontario in the closed out automobile factories. There is 5000 extra positions coming up in the arm forces for those who don't want to work in factories.
  76. Hugo Hall from Calgary, Canada writes: M Lennox and J F: I do not think Westerners want Ontario to suffer (on the contrary, most of us recognize that it is better for all of us if all regions of the country are prospering) but the simple fact of the matter is that most of us (not just westerners) saw this coming, and dumping federal money into dying companies that have shown no reciprocal commitment to maintaining jobs here makes little sense.

    By all means, governments need to get involved in maintaining a strong economy - but I'd rather see investments in infrastructure, technology, research and development than subsidies to the "big 3" dinosaurs.
  77. Trevor Ouellette from Canada writes:
    Canada's dollar should NEVER be as strong as the American's.

    That's why companies came to Canada in the first place. Like call centers, and auto manufacturing. Now they are leaving and it's just good business to do so. While our domestic economy is doing ok, it can't sustain us, as we are only 35 million people.

    Canada lost it's edge. We compete against India, China and Mexico for jobs. Don't let patriotism blind you. The high dollar is bad for Canada dispite what all the pro-union and $50K millionaires from Calgary say.
  78. Proud Canadian from Canada writes: The days of Buzz Hargrove and the likes (this guy who is head of the Union of Toronto Transit)_ begin to realize that the world does not revolve around their whims and wants is when we might get something. Why is Windsor suffering. Because of the mentality of the CAW, its workers and the city. Do you think for a moment that a non union conglomorate will even think of setting shop up in Windsor? Or Oshawa? Or the immediate surrounding area? They wont come out and say it, but go figure. Where are Honda? Where are Toyota? Where is Volkswagen looking? Dont have to be a rocket scientist to figure out those answers.
  79. CallofDuty . from Toronto, Canada writes: Late 4 Work from Canada writes: Old blue,

    Honda and Toyota workers in Ontario have been riding off the backs of the CAW for too long. Do you honestly think Honda and Toyota workers there would be making $31/hr if it weren't for the unions knocking on the door?
    -----------------------------
    If it wasen't for Toyota/Honda building many cars here. You suppliers would be in ruins. We are very lucky to have Nissan/Honda/Toyota/Mercedes/BMW/etc building cars in North America or all that money going to them would directly goto Germany/Japan.
  80. Bildebergers beware you've robbed your last grave from Canada writes: Trevor Oulette writes " Canada's dollar shold NEVER be as stong as the Americans'...

    Why not??

    In fact, based on the debt load per capita, our currency should prbably be higher. Teh total Amercian debt now stand at approx $135 000per man/women/child.

    Don't know about you, but I would rather have a stong dollar and have to become more inovative thatn rely on a weak currency...

    See the above comment I made about alternative fuel vehicles and the response "Buzz" gave.
  81. Michael Sharp from Victoria BC, Canada writes:

    A weak dollar benefits exports.
    Hello Ontario.

    A strong dollar benefits commodities.
    Hello BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan.

    I like a strong dollar, thank you very much.
  82. Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes:
    "There are no problems at a car company good products can't solve." - Carlo Ghosn, CEO Nissan/Renault.
  83. Mary Coyote from Canada writes: The modern automobile is obsolete. 1400 people employed manufacturing a TRANSMISSION which is an energy-robbing part in order to get the very limited torque-range of a complex engine to the wheels? The parts and complexity involved in the eternal combustion engine and transaxle unit is nuts when compared to what the electric car will very soon be. Energy-robbing? The super-dupper BMW 2000 HP V-12 results in only 1000HP reaching the wheels after all the power-robbing parts take their due. That means an engine that is only 40% efficient looses HALF of that just getting the power to the wheels. (The typical gasoline engine is only 30% efficient; the rest is wasted as heat.) It is stupid. The electric car of the near future will be so simple that car prices should fall substantially and these machines will be faster that existing street rods. A chassis with drive-by-wire; a computer; a battery pack; and a small turbine generator (optional for extended range) are the major components. Power will be supplied by four wheel-motors. The motor, steering, regenerative braking, skid control, anti-lock control, and controlling electronics will all be a part of the wheel motor assembly. The skin of the car will be covered by thin-film solar panels. Parking in an outdoor lot means plugging into the grid and selling electricity to further reduce cost of ownership. Installing solar panels at home means that the costs to run the car can be reduced to a negative number as already achieved by California residents with plug-in conversions. Ergo, General Motors needs to push hard and fast in this direction where an automobile becomes a cheap sustainable commodity rather than the excessively complex wallet-robbing asphalt elephants that they have so far focused upon.
  84. winston blowhard from oshawa, Canada writes: This is all part of the G.M. and U.A.W. master plan to unionize Toyota and the other asian transplants in the southern U.S.
    As you already know, the U.A.W. signed a contract that allows 2-tier wages in the states. A new hire will start at $14.00/hr no benefits once an old time hand retires. They will soon all be retired with handsome benefit and pensions. The Asian's will now be facing new competion, fresh young employees making starvation wages. They will soon have no choice but to cut the wages,{ there are no benefits } , to compete. This will not go over well as their employees have been told that as long as they stay non-union this would never happen. The U.A.W. will be there as they have always been, trying to organize the Toyotas and Hondas, but have always fell a bit short. they will not fall short this time, resulting in union all round. On a level playing field, we will see who wins.
  85. Dick Garneau from Canada writes: Re-shape cars, Re-tool, Re-locate, Re-move unions, Re-move Buzz Hargrove types, live long and prosper.
  86. Rick C from Canada writes: Chris E. from Canada writes: "And when we no longer build anything, Canadians will just be drawers of water and hewers of wood. An economy of low-paying stupid jobs, shipping our resources elsewhere and getting paid little for them."

    LOL...low paying jobs in resource extraction?

    Pass whatever you're sniffing son.

    The low end of the oil and gas industry pays ~ $80K/yr...and that's if you're driving a water truck or performing custodial duties. The vast majority of jobs are over $100K/yr.

    Many of them certainly don't take brain surgeons to fill, but low paying jobs they are not. Unless you consider $100K/yr to low...I suppose it is a matter of perspective.
  87. Howard Young from Canada writes: Michael Sharp from Victoria BC, Canada writes:

    A weak dollar benefits exports.
    Hello Ontario.

    A strong dollar benefits commodities.
    Hello BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Are you kidding me, how does that benefit commodities? Most commodities are exported, strong dollar makes them more expensive. Take a look at our forestry industry and tell me how it is good?

    A strong currency is a result of strong demand for CDN commodities, not the other way around.
  88. Late 4 Work from Canada writes: Perhaps I am just too much of a nice guy. Why can I not delight in the news that thousands of autoworkers in Ontario are losing there jobs and be happy about it just like most of the posters here?

    Maybe I should learn to hate unions and the good paying jobs that come with it. Perhaps I should trade in my domestic auto (trouble free for 215,000 km) and get a little Toyota. When there is a problem like engine sludge with that little Toyota, I won't tell my friends. Instead I will brag about how good it is, because I kinda feel guilty about driving an import and I don't want people to think I am stupid for buying it.

    Yes, you people like Mr.Sharp, Proud Canadian, Norm Albert, Steve D, have really gotten me to think. I wanna drive a Toyota or Kia or Honda and complain about unions too, and I wanna compete for the low paying jobs of the future.
  89. Rick C from Canada writes: Michael Sharp from Victoria BC, Canada writes:

    "A strong dollar benefits commodities.
    Hello BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan."

    To a certain degree. Equipment purchased in the US is cheaper now; however the commodities themselves are sold predominantly in USD.

    The oil and gas industry favours a CDN/USD ratio of about $0.90-0.95.

    Higher than parity and the industry starts losing money on the sale of the commodity which they don't like.
  90. winston blowhard from oshawa, Canada writes: To Rick C of Canada.
    i used to work in the oil patch near Fort Nelson B.C.. The money was great but if I worked 5 months a year I was lucky, the ground thaws out in spring. I went to work for a major car company in Oshawa many years ago as skilled trades. I have had a great go of it, have made 100k for 15 years now. Two years ago it was closer to 200k. Things are a bit slow now so I may have to retire with a 40k pension and full benefits. the point is everyone here makes 100k or better. We are not stuck 40 miles from nothing and we work year round, 7 weeks of holidays. You are not as highly paid as you think.
  91. Dave Medich from Windsor, Canada writes: It is a sad day for Windsor and the surrounding area. The last one's to leave better make sure they shut the lights. Cheers!

    .
  92. D BARTA from Canada writes: Maybe it's time for us all to move out west to Fort McMoney, Alberta where the homeless make about $78,000.oo a year........
  93. Greg Out West from Canada writes: winston blowhard from oshawa, Canada writes: To Rick C of Canada.
    i used to work in the oil patch near Fort Nelson B.C.. The money was great but if I worked 5 months a year I was lucky, the ground thaws out in spring. I went to work for a major car company in Oshawa many years ago as skilled trades. I have had a great go of it, have made 100k for 15 years now. Two years ago it was closer to 200k. Things are a bit slow now so I may have to retire with a 40k pension and full benefits. the point is everyone here makes 100k or better. We are not stuck 40 miles from nothing and we work year round, 7 weeks of holidays. You are not as highly paid as you think.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Your salary, while great, go a long way in explaining the current state of affairs in the Canadian auto sector. Labour in other countries is just cheaper.
  94. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes:
    Here's what I find funny about this message board:

    There are several comments here saying that this is GM's fault for building gas guzzling SUVs and trucks instead of small, fuel efficient vehicles.

    But the plant in question was producing parts for GM's compact and subcompacts cars.
  95. Garnet Sturby from canada, writes: Just like the dozen of Canadian labour unions in the past the CAW has managed to shoot the goose that laid the golden egg. Hard to feel sorry for that.
  96. George Bishop from Fergus, Ontario, Canada writes: I have two vehicles in my driveway, one an older model GMC Van that spends more time in the Shop than it does in my yard, the other vehicle is brand new and its a Toyota product! After my first purchase of a Domestic vehicle and having a lot of problems over the years, I decided I would not go back to a Domestic vehicle to repeat my first mistake, this is what GM, Ford and Chrysler have to learn, we have been taken to the cleaners for over thirty years by these manufactures, never again. Its the same feeling I see in USA blogs.
    Plese dont blame the Workers, its not there fault, its the so called Engineers of the old Big three who are to blame for most of there problems., its only a matter of time which one in the USA will go into Chapter 11.
  97. J. Bergin from Canada writes: Auto workers getting paid ridiculous amounts of money to do mundane jobs has finally caught up to them. If the workers had accepted a realistic wage years ago, they would no doubt still have jobs.......your union has just shot you all in the foot