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Immigrant employment gap widens: Statscan

DAVID PSUTKA

Globe and Mail Update

Latest comment posted at 10:47 AM EDT 14/05/08

More immigrants are being hired but at a slower rate than Canadian-born workers, report finds ...Read the full article

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  1. Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: Well the immigration system needs fixing. We have sectors of our economy crying for more pipe fitters, welders, truck drivers, etc, but the system only lets in PhD's, and other highly educated people.

    Unfortunantly, this country isn't generating jobs for such people, so we get them to come in with the PhD's, then become truck drivers. Seems kind of stupid. Why not just bring in the right people in the first place?
  2. Craig Scott from Republic of Newfoundland, Canada writes: Can someone please explain the purpose of this article to me.

    It says the largest increase of employemt for immigrants were ones with University degrees, and it says the largest increase for canadian born people were ones with post secondary or college diplomas.

    What is the surprise, people with an education get jobs.

    Also it is no surprise that immigrants are outpacing Canadian born workers especially considering that the bulk of the jobs ate in the service industry.

    What a waste of bandwidth this story was, and I have jusr contributed to the waste.
  3. PANIC! At The Ice Floe from Ottawa, Canada writes: Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: Well the immigration system needs fixing. We have sectors of our economy crying for more pipe fitters, welders, truck drivers, etc, but the system only lets in PhD's, and other highly educated people.

    Unfortunantly, this country isn't generating jobs for such people, so we get them to come in with the PhD's, then become truck drivers. Seems kind of stupid. Why not just bring in the right people in the first place?


    I'm not a big fan of relying on immigration to support our economy, but I think the first step should be recognizing their credentials. As it stands now, you need to have a PhD to get in, but then it's not recognized when they try to use it. Just crazy.

    One profession immigration issue I will never understand is Doctors and Nurses. Why on Earth does Canada not setup triage sections that immigrant doctors and nurses can work in while working to establish their Canadian equivilent knowledge of 'advanced medicine' used here? A broken bone is a broken bone and treating it isn't to the same level of advanced heart surgery.
  4. Craig Scott from Republic of Newfoundland, Canada writes: Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada.....

    I don't think that is the problem Jimmy....

    There are lots of unskilled immigrants coming here as well, who do you think are doing all the minimum wage jobs?

    Our government should be providing training for our students in skilled trades while they are in high school so they have something to aspire to.

    Over the last number of years there has been to much emphasis put on getting a degree, no matter what it was in. That is why we have so many people with huge student debt and working at low paying jobs....they are bot being advised properly
  5. Rollo Tomasi from Hot, sunny, med-like, Belgium writes: Craig Scott from Republic of Newfoundland, Canada writes: ...
    Our government should be providing training for our students in skilled trades while they are in high school so they have something to aspire to.
    ==========

    They don't provide Science, Technology and Trades in high school anymore?
  6. Rt. Revd. Malachy Egan from Halifax, Canada writes: StatsCan is a waste of space on the planet!

    Skewed and flawed statistics from a group of people who who hold government sinecures: a total abuse of taxdollars.

    We all know what has happened in the immigrant arena, and education is no guarantee of work either. I know a lady of Chinese ethnicity who completed all of her post secondary education in Canada [BC] up to master's level/doctoral studies only to be told by a woman at Nova Scotia Community College [who had no degree, but was related to a faculty member] 'Oh, pity your degrees are not form here.' I.e., Nova Scotia. Just another way of saying we don't employ immigrants when there are priveledged white Nova Scotians who have 'connections.'
  7. pete peters from Blairmore, AB, Canada writes: Here's a solution: let fewer immigrants into the country. We're not doing such a good job employing them anymore because our economy is not generating sufficient employment. Let the economy get bigger, then we can think about letting more in.

    Unfettered, door-wide-open immigration has been a great political boondoggle for the Liberals, since it's a rich source of votes for them. Every poll I've seen says Canadians are evenly divided about letting in the vast numbers we do. Let's assimilate the ones that are here before throwing the floodgates wide open again.
  8. Paul Wallnutz from Ontario, Canada writes: Craig Scott from Republic of Newfoundland: Right on!

    Why should we be importing our skilled labour, from welders to doctors, while our kids are only being trained to serve the newcomers coffee with a university BA?

    And I find it offensive that a country like Canada has to steal skilled medical professionals from poorer countries because we are too cheap to train our own young people for these careers.
  9. Craig Scott from Republic of Newfoundland, Canada writes: PANIC! At The Ice Floe from Ottawa.........

    Recognizing a persons credentials is one thing but we need to test them to make sure they know what they are supposed to.

    We had a very serious incident this year wheer we had a radiologist who had to have thousands one of his exrays, ultra sounds and CT scans reviewed because of complaints about his work.

    He was supposed to be very experience having graduated form an African medial school 20 years prior

    You have to be very careful

    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2008/01/09/radiologist-quits.html
  10. Dick Dead-Eye from Fiji writes:

    A fanatical liberal friend of mine, who believes hotel status for Canada is completely legitimate, argues that we need a quota system for hiring. This would mean that the distribution of jobs would have to be representative of the Canadian population.
  11. Craig Scott from Republic of Newfoundland, Canada writes: Rollo Tomasi from Hot, sunny, med-like, Belgium writes: They don't provide Science, Technology and Trades in high school anymore?

    -----------------------------

    I don't think they do. When I went to high school in NL, I did computers but there were no Trades classes in my school unless you were a slow learner and you enede up in Special Education where you went on work experience once a week

    I know in Ontario they offer it but I don't think at all schools and that is the same for here.

    What they need to do is offer student Two branches of study....one primarily academic that prepares you for university of college and another that provides student with a skill that they can use to get a good job.

    Instead we let student drop out of school and end up working for minimum wage or worse, living on the streets.

    I think there
  12. Paul Wallnutz from Ontario, Canada writes: May I ask what is wrong with bringing in 'unskilled, hardworking' immigrants such as my wife’s parents who came from Hong Kong in the sixty's? Her dad worked as a cook in a Chinese restaurant his whole life and her mom was a homemaker. The product of their five children:

    2 Medical Doctors, 1 PhD Bio-Chemist, 1 Mechanical Engineer, and 1 Entrepreneur who owns a successful technology company.
  13. Dick Dead-Eye from Fiji writes:

    And I find it offensive that a country like Canada has to steal skilled medical professionals from poorer countries because we are too cheap to train our own young people for these careers.

    ---------

    Actually our education system promotes an 'artsy-fartsy' mentality. Students are led to believe that an undergraduate degree in Anthropology or some other discipline constitutes the same social status as a degree in engineering, minus that need for mind boggling Math and a restricted social life. Until we liberate the public education system from it's totalitarian stranglehold on the masses-charter schools- we will likely get more of the same. Don't hold your breath.
  14. Randal Oulton from Canada writes: >> The largest growth among immigrant workers was in those with a university degree, in contrast,

    Yes, but we lure away with false promises doctors, nurses, teachers, architects, and then stick them behind a counter serving coffee. Part of it we're told is professional standards; I guess it's just a side benefit that it helps to protect the vested financial interests of those already here in those areas.
  15. Craig Scott from Republic of Newfoundland, Canada writes: Paul Wallnutz from Ontario.....

    Paul there is nothing wrong with unskilled workers coming here from other countries. What is the difference, our high schools are pumping out unskilled young people faster than we can inport them.

    atleat immigrants have initiative and a will to work and don't expect everything handed to them on a platter.
  16. Rt. Revd. Malachy Egan from Halifax, Canada writes: NO!!! We need to employ the best person for the job!

    And, for the record, the definition of the 'best person' is NOT someone related to a politician or an employee in a government department; state funded school, hospital, etcetera.

    Nepotism, favouritism and croneyism needs to stop! [I recognize the right of owners of private companies to employ whomsoever they wish; however, and ironically, these folk tend to employ the very best that they can because their business is important to them. Unlike the government sector!]
  17. Dick Dead-Eye from Fiji writes:

    Paul

    You're right on. The problem isn't with immigrants but rather with Canadians. Our culture lacks a sound work ethic in large part because we've been overly coddled, and fixated on materialism-there's been lot's of money to go around. Our entire society is addicted to personal satisfaction first and commitment to anything else, second. It will take a seismic shift in thinking to jar us out of the mindset. I'm not optomistic.
  18. Kathleen Degelder from Tacomawashington, Canada writes: Why is the G&M repeating the same story on the stats again? It was already reported previously.
  19. Bill R from waterloo, Canada writes: Many of the IT immigrants the computer and IT shops say are required, aren't.

    An example:
    In an oil refinery, often when engineers are hired, often they have to work in the facilities for 6 months or more before being allowed to design anything. This is because the refineries are so complex that even an experienced engineer would have trouble designing and building new systems for it or making modifications. This goes for many different chemical industries. (I used to work in the chemical industry).

    In software (where I work now), enterprise applications are often orders of magnitude more complex than a refinery. Yet the industry says they need to hire people who can land on the ground and begin immediately to meaningfully contribute to a project. This is a myopic and ill conceived idea, akin to adding a lot of people ignorant (not unintelligent) of the project at the end when they find the deadline is not being met. Neither are realistic nor do they work. People always take time to come to speed.

    Now we have people leaving manufacturing jobs and retraining in IT skills. However the IT industry instead of hiring someone new like the chemical industry often does, and investing some time to bring the person up to speed on a project, they want to hire someone from overseas with a bit more experience in the technology but none in the context in which it is being used (North American life has differences from other parts of the world... colours and music pleasing in one place is not pleasing in another.... this does affect how applications are built), and who still need time to come up to speed anyway. But the perception of IT managers is that they can contribute right away.

    The bottom line is that in the software industry at least, the reason there is a gap in immigrant employment versus Canadian born applicants, is that the Canadian IT industry does not want to invest in Canada or Canadians. The Global Economy in action.
  20. Jack Rip from Vancouver, Canada writes: Dick Dead-Eye - I agree somewhat. But you need to understand that engineering and technical jobs are neither here nor there. The most popular degree these days is a business degree. I have a technical background (computer science) and a mentally challenging, decent (but not great) paying job. Personally, I would advise my kids against taking my path. Many technical jobs are a dead-end, career-wise, especially once you reach a certain age - typically over 35. You need to take another degree to learn 'management-speak' so you can pretend to talk mumbo-jumbo with technically clueless management types (ie, the anthropologist with an MBA who is the North American Sales Manager). Also, many technical skills are vulnerable because they can be and are being outsourced. China and India crank out electrical engineers and software engineers in huge numbers. A large number (but not all) have excellent skills and work ethic. The future of technical skills in North America is people who are physically present to do onsite service and maintenance (and possibly top-level design, assume such people are trained and exist here in the future). Basically we are talking technical tradespeople (until we start hiring Bangladeshi electricians and plumbers to keep these costs down too). I'm lucky that I have other options and am fairly financially secure. I'm looking at transitioning sometime soon out of the technical world and doing something that is less restrictive than a typical pigeon-hole technical job.
  21. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Same headlines as last week. The G & M hasn't finished obsessing over this issue have they? Neither has Stats Can.
  22. Steve J from toronto, Canada writes: More bunk research from StasCan and tripe from G&M. Regardless of degrees and doctorates, if these immigrants can't speak fluent english or present themselves well, it's bound to be a challenge. There is no research to figure out how many of these candidates have abominal resumes and even worse interviewing skills - something that they bring with them; so one cannot blame the Canadian system for that. I think there are enough jobs in Canada for skilled workers and the system does a reasonable job of helping new immigrants (skilled and unskilled). I came to Canada 5 years back and at no stage considered myself any less skilled than existing Canadians but at the same time, I empathise with the newcomers sense of apprehension and fear. It's a matter of taking advantage of many settlement support organizations and being open to learning. Sadly, people are made to paint rosy pictures of Canada before leaving their home countries and the rude awakening of reality shatters them.

    There was a similar article a while back re the visible minorities hitting the 5 million mark in Canada.

    We should have more articles on what Brad and Jolie are naming their next kid that they adopt from Burma :-); that intelligence fits the G&M style.
  23. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Imagine that, those who may not speak the language, who may not entirely understand our various social nuances, who may be unfamiliar with our business culture and our ways, don't get hired as quickly. This is normal isn't it? I wouldn't expect immigrants to compete on an equal footing as soon as they land. It takes time to adjust to a completely new country, and often a new language. Why are we alarmed when we discover something that only makes sense. I'd be alarmed if I found out they were getting hired just as quickly as Canadian-born people were. Then I'd be asking, 'What the hell is wrong with us?'
  24. S.L. S from Small Town, Canada writes: Comes as no surprise to me. They get first dibs at loans and grants for University education here as well. Canadians are Canada's biggest minority group.
  25. Blaque Jacque Shallaque from Canada writes: Alistair McLaughlin from Canada - 100% dead on!
  26. Loudan Bellicose from Canada writes: We do not need immigrants.
    Big business needs immigrants to create shortages in housing.
    Up goes your rent.
    Big business needs immigrants to lower wages.
    Up goes their profit.
    The Latte-Lieberals needs the immigrant vote, they will bring in anyone.
    Immigrants under the present system are not an asset they are a liability.
    Housing up. Waits at hospitals longer. Crime rate up. Wages down.
    Welfare up. Taxes up.
  27. Walker fromtheevilempireofAB from Calgary, Canada writes: Jack Rip

    I have to disagree. Current industry predictions see's a massive potential wage increase for engineers and geoscientists as baby boomers retire in droves. This is on top of already very healthy salaries. Also, you mentioned a guy with an anthropology degree with an M Ba that's a sales manager. What is the percentage of people with anthropolgy, psychology, or history degrees that make over 80k a year to the ones that are not working in their field of educated.

    I personally think that you've got a better chance at getting a secure high paying job as an engineer than as a philosophy major.
  28. Wealthy CEO of a Canada Retailer, We sell everything 50% Higher in Canada from Canada writes: Canada imports huge number of foreign graduates every year yet its own university graduates are either unemployed or underemployed. Those people who are lucky to stay in a job invented a great Canadian only concept 'Canadian experience' just to prevent immigrants to compete. The root of the problem is the business environment. Today if you are a programmer, you go south and get a lot of interviews. In Canada, you are lucky if you get one. I know that a Chinese immigrant doing menial jobs for 6 years in Canada, got his IT job in 1 month after he received green card sponsored by his family member. That is the reason fifty thousand Lebanese Canadians prefer to live in their war-torn country instead in this heaven - because their home country does not discriminate them on jobs.
  29. a salajan from To, Canada writes: Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Imagine that...who may not entirely understand our various social nuances...don't get hired as quickly

    Is 'not knowing someone' also an inability to understand various social nuances?

    Don't see to many immigrants working as paramedics or firemen. It must be the cultural barrier, or lack of work ethics, or unfamiliarity with 'our ways'...

    Just say it: you walked in after me (or my parents), you don't get the same pay or opportunities as I do. If you can't accept that go back where you came from.
  30. Fake Name from Canada writes: ' Paul Wallnutz from Ontario, Canada writes: Why should we be importing our skilled labour, from welders to doctors, while our kids are only being trained to serve the newcomers coffee with a university BA?'

    Serving coffee is about what a BA is good for.
  31. greg panke from Canada writes: The problem is the Politically Correct Passion (PCP) that so many of the left leaning media have, especially the Toronto Star. They seem to feel that arriving on Canada's shores should entitle the immigrant/refugee to a great job and security immediately. What they choose to ignore is that many times the degrees/diplomas they come with are not at the same level as those conferred by Canadian Universities. In addition many have poor English or French and a lack of understanding of Canadian culture.

    After 30 years of PCP the system is wearing out in addition to the patience of employers and their customers. It is difficult enough finding people to do the jobs properly, add in language and cultural differences and it can make it ultimately impossible.

    As suggested earlier, stop all immigration until we can bring the current immigrants/refugees plus our own underemployed up to speed. Once that is reasonably settled open up immigration gradually and make sure the applications truly represent the capabilities of the applicants and that they are compatible with life in Canada. We can't handle 250,000 per year of immigrants/refugees, especially at a time of economice uncertainty, it isn't good for the country or the immigrants.
  32. sue boohoo from Canada writes: Alberta receives fewer immigrants? Try living in a freezer for any length of time.
    Why should immigrants who refuse to integrate by neither speaking, reading or writing english, even be entitled to the same jobs as those who have gone through the proper channels There was a time when people began at the bottom hoping for a better life for their children. Now jump off the plane and expect work?
  33. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: a salajan, I'm not saying anything of the sort, though it doesn't surprise me that someone (you) would try and spin what I said into some sort of bigotry. I've worked in government departments before (federal) and I worked with pleny of immigrants who were higher up than I was. I can't speak for firefighters or paramedics because I haven't worked in that area. But quite simply, it takes time to adjust to a new country. The many immigrants I've worked with have said as much. Such adjustments are often quite difficult, with numerous language and cultural barriers, and as you pointed out, perhaps a lack of social or familial contacts in the right places. (Note: Many Canadians also lack social and/or familial connections to help them get ahead.) So yes, I am coming right out and saying it, but it is not the least bit bigoted as you seem to suggest. It is simply a logical explanation to a completely expected outcome.
  34. Fake Name from Canada writes: 'a salajan from To, Canada writes: Is 'not knowing someone' also an inability to understand various social nuances?'

    Oh, and the 'who you know' factor never victimizes canadian-born applicants. Get real - nepotism is universal across all backgrounds.
  35. slapdash dapoint from trawna, Canada writes: k, you sloths bashing the anthropologists... get over it. i did 2 years of anthro before i got booted from uni. 10 years of goofing off and no more schooling later, i'm an analyst at a financial institution with only 3 'schooled' lifers above me. and for the record: the entire engineering faculty was banned from the campus pub, while my classmates and i were free to enjoy a pitcher or two between phys anthro and linguistics :P more to the point; schooling here needs to change. too much emphasis is placed on getting your BA, then your MA or MBA or PHD and if you show much interest in HVAC or auto, high school teachers essentially write you off and encourage other students to see you as a failure - ie. 'while you're all studying hard to get into a good university, so-and-so is slacking in tech class and will be driving a van for the rest of their life, maybe you'll call them to fix your toilet in your mansion'. like being a competent tradesperson is a bad thing. and for the immigrants, let's fix the system: if we only want the most highly educated, and we obviously only want them so they can go into the industry in which we desire, do the background checks before you let them in. i too know a doctor from eastern europe who had to sling coffee to feed her kids.
  36. Karina_I (my art at windstream.ca) from Canada writes: I fully agree with Alistair McLaughlin from Canada who writes:

    'I wouldn't expect immigrants to compete on an equal footing as soon as they land. It takes time to adjust to a completely new country, and often a new language. Why are we alarmed when we discover something that only makes sense.'

    I came to Canada almost 12 years ago with the PhD and it did take about 2 years for me to adjust, update my qualifications and now compete equally. Yes I had to retrain myself from PhD in Economics to become a Sun Certified Software Developer, but to me the PhD degree never meant the dogmatic link to any profession, but rather the state of mind, the indicator that person can think and find the best ways to adjust.

    And to Jimmy K from Toronto, who writes 'Unfortunantly, this country isn't generating jobs for such people, so we get them to come in with the PhD's, then become truck drivers. '

    I personally don't know anybody with PhD, at least in my environment, who became truck driver - almost all of them after certain period of time found their appropriate places in the economy.
  37. Gogh Forit from Canada writes: Now there's a solution for the distribution of EI funds. Candidates for medical school have their education paid for by taxpayers and then sign a contract to work ten years in Canada at a location determined by the government. Some provinces are already implementing just such a plan but on a pilot program basis with only a handful of students eligible.
    Language competency would be great asset for any new immigrant coming into the country which may be why the government prefers PHD's over tradespeople. Steve J has a good point. Oh and a little bit of assimilation would go a long way to show 'the folks at home' that you're attempting to fit in instead of demanding tolerance for your cultural ways. If what I just said is bigoted the G&M censors will not print it.
  38. Rick C from Canada writes: So what?
  39. B.C. Expat from Ottawa-Hull, NCR, Canada writes: I find the headline here somewhat misleading in light of the story. But also: _Randal Oulton from Canada writes: Yes, but we lure away with false promises doctors, nurses, teachers, architects, and then stick them behind a counter serving coffee. Part of it we're told is professional standards; I guess it's just a side benefit that it helps to protect the vested financial interests of those already here in those areas._ Who is sticking them where? How do current job-holders even have a say? There is no centralized job-allocating agency -- Canada isn't _that_ socialist. I don't believe in this massive, multi-industry collusion to favor native born Canadians, either. Businesses limiting themselves in this way would be at a disadvantage and would lose ground quickly to those efficiently hiring the best people. Also, further to Alistair's point, if one really believes the gap must be evidence of prejudice or racism, I dare any of you middle-class white kids to immigrate to, say, Mali or Yemen and see how easily you can find a job you like. Or even a European country. It's never very easy for a ton of reasons. I'm an Ontario lawyer -- I couldn't do squat with that in, say, Italy.
  40. B.C. Expat from Ottawa-Hull, NCR, Canada writes: Randal Oulton from Canada writes: Yes, but we lure away with false promises doctors, nurses, teachers, architects, and then stick them behind a counter serving coffee. Part of it we're told is professional standards; I guess it's just a side benefit that it helps to protect the vested financial interests of those already here in those areas.

    Who is sticking them where? How do current job-holders even have a say? There is no centralized job-allocating agency -- Canada isn't that socialist. I don't believe in this massive, multi-industry collusion to favor native born Canadians, either. Businesses limiting themselves in this way would be at a disadvantage and would lose ground quickly to those efficiently hiring the best people.

    Also, further to Alistair's point, if one really believes the gap must be evidence of prejudice or racism, I dare any of you middle-class white kids to immigrate to, say, Mali or Yemen and see how easily you can find a job you like. Or even a European country. It's never very easy for a ton of reasons. I'm an Ontario lawyer -- I couldn't do squat with that in, say, Italy.
  41. Brian W from Canada writes: So what?
  42. Rick C from Canada writes: .C. Expat from Ottawa-Hull, NCR, Canada writes:

    'Who is sticking them where? How do current job-holders even have a say? There is no centralized job-allocating agency -- Canada isn't that socialist. I don't believe in this massive, multi-industry collusion to favor native born Canadians, either.'

    There of course isn't one.

    The stories about doctors and other professionals driving cabs is largely an urban myth.

    The issue with professional vocations is many immigrants do not look into the requirements for licencing in Canada. They show up and then start looking into what it takes to become licenced in their profession.

    Depending on whether or not their post-secondary institution is accredited or not as well as other factors it may be as simple as filling out an application form to having to finish more schooling or study and write professional practice exams.

    There are thousands of post secondary institutions around the world. To assume or suggest that anyone from any institution should be able to practice in Canada is ridiculous.
  43. W W from Canada writes: The immigrants of this age (25-52) are also overrepresented in schools. Why this stats is not provided as an explanation?
  44. Woody Forrest from Out in the Sticks, Canada writes: Many people don't immigrate to Canada - they're really immigrating to Toronto. At some point we need to declare Toronto full, and start targeting people willing to move to Regina or Saint John. slapdash dapoint from trawna, Canada made a good point with :... more to the point; schooling here needs to change. too much emphasis is placed on getting your BA, then your MA or MBA or PHD and if you show much interest in HVAC or auto, high school teachers essentially write you off and encourage other students to see you as a failure ...' Yes, that mentality is pretty well entrenched in Canadian culture. I got my engineering degree and avoided management positions. I stuck with a design skill I liked, built on that, and now I make more than most managers. The trick is picking a skill that will be in demand. Hint: The predicted demise of the oil and gas industry is still a long way off. However, it does bother me how much immigration has become a growth industry in Canada. We need some immigrants, but it shouldn't become a fixation. It shouldn't be the main source of our doctors and engineers. We need to get away from well off Canadians getting fluff degrees, and importing the skills we really need. Can't we ramp up enrolment for certain college or university programs?
  45. Oh Really from Canada writes: The low birth rate of Canadians seems to justify any level of immigration with accompanying disastrous immigration economic stats. This is a well-studied area, yet there is NOT ONE SINGLE STUDY showing any economic benefit to me or you on a per capita basis arising from immigration. Not one. Just a bunch of theories that don't pan out and but are still used used to justify the highest per capita immigration rate in the world. Political correctness gone mad.
  46. Wicked Messenger from Vancouver, Canada writes: How typically Canadian! Recently there were some disparaging articles in the media regarding Immigrants and Employment. In typical Canadian fashion they couldn't just stand as a definitive or final statement- they had to be publically refuted. There just HAD to be a public rebuttal in the name of political correctness.

    It is obvious Canada is now suffering from RFPS- 'Reverse Fascist Propaganda Syndrome'
  47. W W from Canada writes: Until recently it was fine for a recent immigrant to take any work until he and his family gets settled in a new country and get an idea what to do professionally in a new economic environment. These days it generates a headline and is used for political purposes.
  48. Bilbo Bloggins from Ontario, Canada writes: Paul Wallnutz writes: 'I find it offensive that a country like Canada has to steal skilled medical professionals from poorer countries because we are too cheap to train our own young people for these careers.'

    Yes, this really bothers me too, and on many levels. Many of these countries really need their own medical professionals at home, and have paid the bill to train them; and then here comes rich Canada, luring away their physicians and nurses (too often with false promises). What a despicable practice, and it also speaks to the lack of concern for the people in their own country when these people leave. What kind of caring professionals will they make, or are they only chasing the mighty dollar?
  49. Bilbo Bloggins from Ontario, Canada writes: Paul Wallnutz writes: 'Why should we be importing our skilled labour, from welders to doctors, while our kids are only being trained to serve the newcomers coffee with a university BA?

    And I find it offensive that a country like Canada has to steal skilled medical professionals from poorer countries because we are too cheap to train our own young people for these careers.'

    Yes, this really bothers me too, and on many levels. Many of these countries really need their own medical professionals at home, and have paid the bill to train them; and then here comes rich Canada, luring away their physicians and nurses (too often with false promises). What a despicable practice, and it also speaks to the lack of concern for the people in their own country when these people leave. What kind of caring professionals will they make, or are they only chasing the mighty dollar?
  50. Vic Hotte from Kettleby, Canada writes: Canada worries a great deal about jobs for immigrants, but there seems to be a problem with assessing their credentials and language skills. Annual levels have remained too high at 250,000 , despite this nation's changing economic base. Canada has been losing manufacturing jobs to countries from which it sources many immigrants. That is a fact of trade globalization. We are not the country that we once were, and most jobs seem to be 'in transition'. You have to go where the jobs are, not sit and hope for them to come to you. Members of family have had to leave their 'home and native land' to find appropriate jobs elsewhere. That's just the way it is. The concept of 'family reunification' goes back to the 1950s, but that world doesn't exist anymore. If Canadians have to leave their families to find work elsewhere, why is Canada promising jobs and family reunification schemes to immigrants? There is also a rumour going around that immigrants will fill ALL jobs by 2015 or thereabouts. Ummm, I hope our children will be remembered by the government of Canada, too. The prime minister certainly has school-aged children: where will they be shipped so they don't take jobs from immigrants? Canadians do have children, so let's not pretend that we don't; long-time immigrants also have Canadian children, although multiculturalism is supposed to prevent that for some reason. It's time to take a breather and look around the world. Other countries have overtaken Canada, and it is time that we look out for ourselves more, rather than apologizing and falling all over ourselves to provide good jobs to immigrants primarily. Name one other country where the federal government is preoccupied with the job prospects and language training of foreign nationals to the exclusion of its own citizens' prospects.
  51. Chuck the Canuk from the east, Canada writes: Of course they have a higher employment rate. The federal government damn near makes it a federal crime if you don't hire them. The solution is to let far fewer in the country, and start giving the jobs to CANADIANS BORN IN CANADA.
  52. SN Dream from Canada writes: Loudan Bellicose from Canada writes: We do not need immigrants.
    Big business needs immigrants to create shortages in housing.
    Up goes your rent.
    Big business needs immigrants to lower wages.
    Up goes their profit.
    The Latte-Lieberals needs the immigrant vote, they will bring in anyone.
    Immigrants under the present system are not an asset they are a liability.
    Housing up. Waits at hospitals longer. Crime rate up. Wages down.
    Welfare up. Taxes up.
    ------------------------------------------
    Your own statement contradict with itself. If immigrant are buying so many houses, business will build more and employ more people which will drive wages up.
    On the other hand, if immigrants are working so much to the point that they are driving wages down then welfare and crime rate wouldn't go up, taxes will go down because the immigrant will pay a lot of tax as they work so much.
  53. Wicked Messenger from Vancouver, Canada writes: 'I hope our children will be remembered by the government of Canada, too.'

    Judging by our Gov's immigration policy, this is unlikely.

    'The prime minister certainly has school-aged children: where will they be shipped so they don't take jobs from immigrants?'

    good question- we can see the true nature of our Gov's priorities in this point

    'Canadians do have children'

    does the term 'second-class citizen' mean anything to anyone?

    'it is time that we look out for ourselves more, rather than apologizing and falling all over ourselves to provide good jobs to immigrants'

    this person has sense-unusual in the immigration debate

    'Name one other country where the federal government is preoccupied with the job prospects and language training of foreign nationals to the exclusion of its own citizens' prospects.'

    Um, Antartica?
  54. Woody Forrest from Out in the Sticks, Canada writes: Vic Hotte, nicely put. Where do we get off this train?
  55. Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: Rollo Tomasi from Hot, sunny, med-like, Belgium writes:

    They don't provide Science, Technology and Trades in high school anymore?

    I remember 7 or 8 years ago when my middle son was attending high school in ON, that school cut the AutoCad program. The machine shop teacher was outraged, and fought it - but to no avail. It joined sheet metal & plumbing on the scrap heap. They kept the 'Theatre Arts' program, though. That pretty much sums it all up.

    'Shop' classes are pretty much viewed as a dumping ground for every misfit, idiot, future/present ex-con and substance abuser going. My son wanted to be there - he wanted to be a tool & die maker. For the vast majority of his classmates, it was the refuge of last resort. The resources they got reflected that.
  56. Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: Rollo Tomasi from Hot, sunny, med-like, Belgium writes:

    They don't provide Science, Technology and Trades in high school anymore?

    I remember 7 or 8 years ago when my middle son was attending high school in ON, that school cut the AutoCad program. The machine shop teacher was outraged, and fought it - but to no avail. It joined sheet metal & plumbing on the scrap heap. They kept the 'Theatre Arts' program, though. That pretty much sums it all up.

    'Shop' classes are pretty much viewed as a dumping ground for every misfit, idiot, future/present ex-con and substance abuser going. My son wanted to be there - he wanted to be a tool & die maker. For the vast majority of his classmates, it was the refuge of last resort. The resources they got reflected that.
  57. SN Dream from Canada writes: Woody Forrest from Out in the Sticks, Canada writes: Many people don't immigrate to Canada - they're really immigrating to Toronto. At some point we need to declare Toronto full, and start targeting people willing to move to Regina or Saint John. slapdash dapoint from trawna, Canada made a good point with :... more to the point; schooling here needs to change. too much emphasis is placed on getting your BA, then your MA or MBA or PHD and if you show much interest in HVAC or auto, high school teachers essentially write you off and encourage other students to see you as a failure ...'

    We need to get away from well off Canadians getting fluff degrees, and importing the skills we really need. Can't we ramp up enrolment for certain college or university programs?
    -------------------------------------------
    It is the cities who should ask themselves why the immigrants keep on going to Toronto instead of Regina and St John. Hint: Try to be friendlier might help.

    I definitely agree there should be 2 different stream for high school, one technical for stuff like skilled trade or auto and the other one for preparing to universities. Student should be allowed to choose freely between the two.

    If you ramp up enrollment, you are risking a drop in quality of students. The solution is for company to pay more for R&D position, but a lot of the time especially in the older sector, too much money are being muscled away by union, so you have high school drop out earning more than university professor. Of course not much people want to enroll in engineering, people want money.
  58. T Tom from Kochi, India writes: Even if the academic credentials of these immigrants are recognized, there is another hurdle called 'Canadian Work Experience' (CWE). Companies only hire people having prior work experience in Canada. Where on earth does a newly arrived guy get a Canadian work experience, unless he is given a Canadian job in the first place? The Govt. should tackle this problem and advise companies to give relaxation in this aspect to the newly arrived immigrant.
  59. Chris E. from vancouver, Canada writes: I knew a man from South Asia who came to this country during the tech boom. Once he had his citizenship and made some money, he left that field, and is now doing a much less demanding job while waiting for retirement.

    Hardly a success story for our 'skilled immigration' plan. A better idea would be for us to employ temporary, term workers, with no possibility of family immigration or citizenship. When their two years are up, they go home, and we don't have to look after their health and old-age security.
  60. Joe V from Canada writes: The article mentions that the number of employed immigrants between the ages of 25 and 54 incrased by 2.1%. Here's a random guess: maybe the number of immigrants increased by 2.1 percent. What a disappointing article. The statistic that actually matters is the percentage of all immigrants that are employed, relative to the percentage of all non-immigrants that are employed. That's what matters in terms of economic productivity, and in terms of the value that existing Canadians are receiving from the current immigration system.
  61. Joe V from Canada writes: The censorship at the Globe is really getting irritating. I have tried posting a response four times now. It does not have any foul language, nor is it discriminatory. But I suppose political incorrectness cannot be tolerated.
  62. Margaret Ahsan from Canada writes: The lady who faced employment discrimmination in one part of Canada was one of many Canadians who are faced with the regionalization of jobs. My own children,both highly qualified(one in a field the G&M says is desperately needed in Canada ) faced the same story,not once,but many times.
    Add to the above,what about the subsidies employers get for hiring immigrants? What about the pressure exerted to employ immigrants before the next group needs to be found jobs by a government that lets them come here? What about the qualified Canadians who have to leave this country because nobody will hire them here?
    I have now lost two of my highly qualified Canadian children to other countries,and every day I hear about recent immigrants getting the jobs my Canadian children,equally qualified,were denied. I'm sure the sympathetic types will accuse me of being anti immigrant. I'm not. My husband was an immigrant who worked hard and was proud of his single Canadian citizenship.I just wish my children were wanted in their own country
  63. E. Biggs from Canada writes: Bilbo and Paul I think you need to spend a little time researching some of these issues before posting.

    I have spoken to a few of these medical types who have come here with their families.

    Two young Drs. whom I talked to came here from South Africa and the only reason was for the safety and security of their families.
    According to what they told me they feared for their family member every time they left their home. Both were practicing medical Dr.s in Sourth Africa both were in their 40s but neither of them despite passing the exams could get certification here.

    The other person was a medical person of some type from Zimbabwe amd he said much the same thing it was safety and security for his family that drove him here it sure was not the climate.

    I dare say that we are hardly stealing anybody from these countries as the people could not wait to get out and by the way the two South Africans were working in menial jobs pending certification.
  64. Yogie Bear from The Forest, Canada writes: Poor students have brains too and will work in Canada if their tuition is tax deductible.
  65. wilson ruiz from Germany writes: Randal Oulton you're totally right. At interviews with inmigration officers in their country of origin highly qualified inmigrants are led to believe that Canada is waiting for them with open arms. They are never told that in order to find jobs in their fields the must first gain the approval of professional associations that exist only to keep newcomers from getting jobs. End of story.
  66. Ed Lewis from Sanityville, Canada writes: Bilbo Bloggins from Ontario, Canada writes: Paul Wallnutz writes: 'Yes, this really bothers me too, and on many levels. Many of these countries really need their own medical professionals at home, and have paid the bill to train them; and then here comes rich Canada, luring away their physicians and nurses (too often with false promises). What a despicable practice, and it also speaks to the lack of concern for the people in their own country when these people leave. What kind of caring professionals will they make, or are they only chasing the mighty dollar?'

    --------------------

    Well, perhaps if the USA didn't lure away many of our domestically trained doctors we wouldn't need foreign doctors. However, that's life. If the foreign countries don't like it they can restrict doctors rights of mobility/emigration. Otherwise, suck it up and move on.
  67. Ed Lewis from Sanityville, Canada writes: Seems to me like another most excellent reason to drastically curtail our current 'willy-nilly, let everyone except the deserving in the door policy'.
  68. Ed Lewis from Sanityville, Canada writes: Woody Forrest from Out in the Sticks, Canada writes: 'At some point we need to declare Toronto full, and start targeting people willing to move to Regina or Saint John.'

    ---------------------

    No thanks. We have enough problems over here without throwing thousands of unemployed, non-english speaking people into the mix. Send them to Alberta.
  69. A Canadian from Oshawa, Canada writes: Bring in more unemployable family-class immigrants (grandparents, parents, brother/sister-in-laws, cousins, friends and relative, and so on), and what else can you expect.

    Immigration is a privilege, not a right. NDP and the Liberals for too long have indulged in intellectual dishonesty and pandered for the votes.

    Mr.Haprer, this is your chance to fix this.
  70. Beau Brummel from Canada writes: Excellent post Vic Haute! You have hit the nail on the head. No one has mentioned how much it is costing Canadian taxpayers each year for the 250 000 immigrants and refugees Canada admits on a yearly. All require some subsidy from welfare, health care, housing etc. What we as taxpayers dole out annually is not on a one time basis as immigrants can receive up to $2700 per month for three years. We are still paying for those admitted last year while adding another 250 000 this year and next year etc. It is not a one-time payout. What is the annual budget for immigration? A recent report indicated that about 135 000 of the number admitted into Canada last year 135 were family reunification and refugees, which is almost half. Do people post a bond of $100 000 for family members which would devoid the taxpayer from having to pay for health care, OAS etc. for these family reunification? The media has reported that Canada takes the refugees other countries won't. These include people with Aids and other medical conditions which are resulting in a further drain on our health care (at one time were denied entry.) Many refugee families (often single mothers) being admitted have large numbers of children and will never get off welfare simply because one wage earner can never support them. What is the cost of this long term and what hope is there for the children with no school and English experience upon arriving to ever become self-sufficient. How has this worked in such places as Toronto and Brampton? I agree with previous posters that immigration should be stopped until it is totally revamped and redefined so that it benefits Canada rather than the other way around. Look at ways of upgrading Canadians versus immigrants. Under Trudeau the numbers were manageable at about 88 000. Canadians are no longer buying into the myth that such huge immigration is best for Canada. If something isn't done soon, the cost and burden on Canadian taxpayers be out of control.
  71. Mark S Noel from NT, Canada writes: I wonder how much the previous Liberal government's program to let unqualified people in because they have family who have immigrated here is effecting these stats. If your family which did meet entry requirements lives and work in GTA where are you going to move to.
  72. greg panke from Canada writes: Well said Vic Hotte! There are few countries in the world where so much money, time and attention is directed away from the country's long term citizens to recent immigrants/refugees. England is one, after that I have no idea.

    I am glad to see so much anger with the current system, it is time for a political party that supports Canadians first not second.

    Thanks to the G&M for allowing a discussion on an anti PC subject.
  73. AJ Flint from Canada writes: 'Well said Vic Hotte! '

    I couldn't agree more.

    I consider myself an NDP supporter. However, on this issue; I cannot reasonably deny what Vic Hotte is saying.

    There comes a time when one must say 'enough is enough'.
  74. M K from Toronto, Canada writes: One of the major obstacles to a new immigrant is 'networking'.

    Those who have better connections/contacts have greater advantage over those who do not.

    Here, skilled and suitable candidates are given a raw deal and people known to the company are preferred even if they have poorer skills than the former.

    In some countries the official responsible for selecting a candidate because he is known to him is taken to task. In those countries, this is a punishable offence known as nepotism.

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