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Let them return to the nest - but don't let them stay

TRALEE PEARCE

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 9:16 PM EDT 14/05/08

University grads who leave home too soon or stay too long are at greater risk for depression, research shows ...Read the full article

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  1. dave ross from Canada writes: An everything gives you cancer.

    What are they saying is the root cause of the depression? Is it biological or environmental (e.g. nature vs nurture)? If the latter that will put the lie to much of the pharmaceutical industry.

    I left for university at 18, never really moved back and never looked back. I've had my ups and downs and saw my friends have the same. I think it's called life.

    I don't discount the reality of depression and its effects since I am currently trying to help at least one family member and a good friend muddle through. I also think that people are much more prone to embrace chemical distraction, prescription or not, when going through tough times and become hooked.
  2. NotYetA Silverback from Canada writes: Do children leave early because of problems at home and others stay at home longer because they have problems adjusting to the outside world? Maybe the length of stay at home is a symptom not a cause.
  3. RD Lone from Vancouver, Canada writes: More bunk science. Lemme think - who's going to have more stress, a young kid paying his own way for the first time in his life or a kid living in his mom's basement playing videogames all day? What leads to depression, being stressed out or having 'fun' all day?

    I love they even state that they know being unemployed matters, but they chose to exclude it from the study.
  4. Tyler Williams from seattle, United States writes: Interesting.

    Hello, headline writer? Your collar does not match your cuffs.

    In your headline you claim 'University grads who leave home too soon or stay too long are at greater risk for depression'.

    But, in contrast, in your article you claim 'younger (home deserters) reported higher levels of depression than those who lived at home with their parents, (whilst) the reverse was true for older individuals (who) reported more depressive symptoms if they had not yet left home'.

    Hello?

    The headline and the article are saying opposite things!

    Please make up your mind which version is correct, and get back to us....
  5. Tyler Williams from seattle, United States writes: Doh!

    Doh!

    Holy I-wish-I-got-a-good-nights-sleep last night, batman!

    My post of 12:57 is sooooooo wrong!

    Of course the editors have it perfectly correct.

    Wow, gotta go wipe all this egg off my face...
  6. Tyler Williams from seattle, United States writes: Regarding the findings in the research article, does anyone see a possibly confounding factor?

    For example, image in a family with two kids, one who has just always been happy and a joy to be around, and the other kid who has always been kind of grumpy and sad by nature.

    Wouldn't it be a confounding factor that the parents might be compelled to sort of kick the grumpy kid out (younger) whilst welcoming the idea of keeping the happy kid around?

    Wouldn't that sort of thing be kind of be confounding for this study, since the age of departure would be related causatively to how well the parents tolerated the kid?

    In other words, maybe ALL kids get more and more unhappy if they stay living under their parents' care for too long - but that they are 'shown the door' at a similar threshold of 'this just isn't working out' household friction (similar threshold, meaning earlier for the already grumpy kid, and later for the originally more happy kid).

    Wouldn't a way to reduce that possible confounding effect be to look at how identical twins fare in the two scenarios?
  7. Rick C from Canada writes: Sorry but there is no 'too soon' for university grads to leave home.

    They've already completed university for God's sake. Quit coddling your kids and teach them how to be adults.

    Allowing your kids to live at home after graduating university longer than a few months for a transition period is stupid and only leads to people who can't take care of themselves.
  8. Devil Bud from Toronto, Canada writes: Heh Rick: Kids graduate as early as 20 years old now. In addition, how easy do you think it is these days when you have a 3 yr. University degree to just go out there and get a job? Maybe you should get in touch with reality before laying the boot to your kids. As for the study....wow, how uninteresting or inciteful. X is depressed, Y is depressed, the cause could be A - G. Don't most studies come up with answers to a hypothesis? Seems like the great Dr. came up with a hypothesis more than answering the original one. I guess that is how the government grants keep on rolling in...don't ever fully answer the problem.
  9. Are We Having This Conversation ? from Toronto, Canada writes: Rick C....you have serious issues when it comes to your comments.
    I went to school in Toronto, moved out to do my post grad overseas, came home to begin to look for a job in my field...went back overseas to defend my thesis and then took a part time job in my teaching field when I returned....in all, it took a very long time to finally get my finances in track. Having said that, while I was travelling overseas and studying and teaching and working a second job, my mother kindly let me stay at home until EVERYTHING worked out and now, as a 31 year old, I own a home, have my awesome job/career and financially stable to be on my own and travel whenever I am able to go.
    Your comment here : 'They've already completed university for God's sake. Quit coddling your kids and teach them how to be adults.'.....I stayed at home longer than a few months and guess what? It helped because I would not have been able to continue my education! Thank God for my parents love and support...look those 2 words up!
  10. Megan Ratcliffe from Toronto, Canada writes: I left home for college at 19, moving from a rural community to Toronto. Granted I lived in a somewhat protected residence for the first three years, moving home every summer to work to put some money towards school, and now I am working, living and surviving in Toronto. I support myself completely, with the recognition that if I needed money or anything my parents would provide it with no questions asked. But I have not taken advantage of that for a few years now. I am almost 28, and do support myself. That being said, my parents never pressured me to leave or to stay. Although Ithink if I was still living at home, my parents would be asking me what my plans were.
    Kids are kids, adolescents are adolescents, and sometimes young adults need a little help and sometimes they just need to be shown the door.
  11. No Name Necessary from Canada writes: I don't see why kids have to leave home just because they've finished their education. They should move out when they can afford to. Now with house prices the way they are shouldn't they get a chance to pay off some debts first and save some $$$ before they are shown the door??? If my kids want to live at home they can as long as they help around the house (i.e. pay for groceries, do errands, yard work, work full-time/part-time....whatever). It's the parents who 'mother' their kids to death that end up not knowing what to do even after they leave home....
  12. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Like dave ross, I left home at 18 to attend university (in another city). I couldn't wait to leave home and I never returned. Things were often not easy, but in those days I didn't expect to own a car, live at home until I had amassed a down-payment, or live at home for the laundry and meal benefits. I was single and on my own for ten years, as was my future husband. I lived in grubby rooming houses, shared small apartments with other singles, and could put everything I owned in the back of a car (if I'd owned one).

    Our nieces and nephews seem coddled by comparison, whereas my parents' attitude was that, armed with even a high school education, I was already well ahead of where they were at that age. And, as I am accused of daily on these fora, I'm a liberal (and therefore supposedly lazy, a welfare collector, lacking in personal responsibility, etc.). On more than a few occasions, I felt lonely, lost, and down-in-the-dumps, but things would have had to be very desperate before I'd have asked my parents for help. It's called pride and it kept me going on more than one occasion.
  13. Rollo Tomasi from Belgium writes: I left home at 18, got a job, paid for university myself, got way better jobs, never looked back. Like Diane Marie, I once went 5 days without food rather than call may parents and ask for a couple bucks.

    My son, however, is always welcome.
  14. Bubbles McBubbles from Trawna, Canada writes: 'In psychological circles, the 20s are known as a risky time, with higher rates of depression than are typical in middle age.'

    And would these 'psychological circles' happen to be on the payroll of major pharmaceutical companies?
  15. R Lam from Calgary, Canada writes: No Name Necessary from Canada: I agree somewhat with this post. However while there are some people who actually need help to achieve their goals whether it be time to do additional schooling, save up for a house, etc. there is an equal amount of people who get complacent and comfortable in the parental abode and need a swift kick of reality. It's easy to condemn Rick C, however some people's kids have degrees in something other than Liberal Arts and getting a job that actually gives them a means of supporting themselves isn't all that difficult. In this case I'd be hard pressed to not condemn parents who let their income-generating offspring continue to live at home.
  16. Joe Liberali from Canada writes: Bubbles McBubbles from Trawna, Canada writes: ... And would these 'psychological circles' happen to be on the payroll of major pharmaceutical companies?

    All medical professionals are sales people for the pharmaceuticals.. they just don't have the luxury of being paid for it (yet).
  17. Rick C from Canada writes: Devil Bud from Toronto, Canada writes:

    'Heh Rick: Kids graduate as early as 20 years old now. In addition, how easy do you think it is these days when you have a 3 yr. University degree to just go out there and get a job?'

    So what? Are you saying a 20 y/o can't take care of themselves? Give me a break. Like many others I moved away from home at 18; it wasn't a very traumatic event.

    To answer your question if you don't have a job lined up before you graduate that is your first problem. Otherwise take a job until you find something in your field.
  18. Rick C from Canada writes: Are We Having This Conversation ? from Toronto, Canada:

    Maybe you should go back to school to pick up some reading comprehension.

    In your final statement you say 'I stayed at home longer than a few months and guess what? It helped because I would not have been able to continue my education!'

    Did I say anything about staying at home while finishing your education? No I thought not.

    I suspect when you were overseas for you education, defending your thesis and working you probably weren't making the commute from your parent's basement.

    Just to let you know...love and support from your parents isn't directly proportional to giving them a free ride until they are 31.
  19. Rick C from Canada writes: Gogh Forit from Canada:

    Sorry son but it isn't my job to teach other people's children how to be independent from mommy and daddy.
  20. Scare Crow from Canada writes: This is bullocks not worth the page it is written to. I mean look at Italy, most young adult go back to live on their parents house. And even if they are now independent, they would still subdivide the house and pick a place, be it the loft, the basement or the middle floors. Does that mean that Italian young adults are depressed? sheez? what about in 3rd world countries where the necessity of life is not just possible to strike out on your own immediately? I guess this is just something that is restricted to 'North American' culture.
  21. Devil Bud from Toronto, Canada writes: Rick says: "So what? Are you saying a 20 y/o can't take care of themselves? Give me a break. Like many others I moved away from home at 18; it wasn't a very traumatic event.

    To answer your question if you don't have a job lined up before you graduate that is your first problem. Otherwise take a job until you find something in your field."

    First off, the study was about University graduates, not highschool graduates Rick. So, the fact that you moved out of your parents' house when you were 18, which was not in 2008, doesn't say much about modern society. Nowadays you need more education than ever before, just for lousy paying entry-level positions. Such entry level positions rarely give new-graduates the ability to afford to immediately move-out on their own. In addition, it is not as simple as taking a job outside of your field. The longer a person takes to work in their field, the harder it gets to actually get a job, because have become obsolete. So, as noted above, some need to take lousy, low-paying jobs in their field in order to get the experience, while still living at their parents. After some experience is gained in the workforce, then, maybe, these individuals can get better pay and move out on their own.
  22. Rick C from Canada writes: Devil Bud from Toronto, Canada writes: "First off, the study was about University graduates, not highschool graduates Rick. So, the fact that you moved out of your parents' house when you were 18, which was not in 2008, doesn't say much about modern society." Son I am only 32. I moved away from home at 18 to go to university. So spare me the drivel about 2008 and a modern society. Not much has changed since I graduated. You state "Such entry level positions rarely give new-graduates the ability to afford to immediately move-out on their own." Correction...such entry level positions rarely give new-graduates the ability to live high on the hog if they move out on their own. That is really what this issue boils down to. Many parents are willing to let their kids live at home until it's convenient for them to move out. God forbid their kids have to buy an older car, rent first instead of own, or forgoe designer clothes and yearly trips to Mexico. Simply moving out on your own does not require a $100K/yr salary. It's simple. The notion that a university grad is not ready to move out on there own is ridiculous. It's simply easier to sponge off mom and dad to avoid any semblance of hardship.
  23. William Pender from Fort Macleod, Canada writes: I left home at the age of 15 years to escape parental and sibling physical and mental abuse. This occurred in 1944.

    Depression occurred in Quebec ten years later but with professional help suicide was avoided and a university degree obtained.

    As a highschool instructor I managed 31 years in the classrooms. Languages were my forte: French, English and Latin.

    At the age of 41 I married a wonderful person. In 2008 we are celebrating the 38th year of success.
  24. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Devil Bud:-- The problem seems to be that some parents are almost more needy than their children. They don't know how to define themselves except as either parents or grandparents, which means that they need to maintain the self-deception that their offspring are children requiring their care (even when those offspring have their own children). Some parents need to grow up so that their own children can do the same. I should admit that it's easy for me to say having not myself been a parent, but it doesn't keep me from either observing or remembering the lessons I learned along the way and how I learned them.

    The only way one learns to appreciate the good things in life (however defined) is to experience some bad things. One values privacy (and works hard to achieve some) after having had to share accommodation to keep the price down. One values having a security nest egg when one has experienced the trials of not having one. One appreciates personal responsibility when one has been forced to live with people who don't accept any. Those lessons are not learned from parents but from the trials and rewards of independent life. How can people who are the offspring of those who survived the Great Depression and war think that today's young people aren't up to making their own way in the world?
  25. Devil Bud from Toronto, Canada writes: Wow Rick, you're only 32? I would have sworn that you were a founding member of the PC Party. Either way, I am sure your tough love will not go unnoticed with your children. Here's to hoping they never need your help after their eventual University graduation. Cheers Rush!
  26. Blind InTheSun from Canada writes: You should be able to manage yourself by the time you leave high school. However, thar doesn't mean you should move out as soon as you start university. Still, I think that's the best time to try living on one's own- during an undergrad. You need space to figure out who you are, what you need to do to fly on your own and find a mate (wink).

    Baby students (undergrads) are still close to the nest in age and experience that no one will laugh if they occasionally falter but should be old enough manage their day to day (money issues aside). A university graduate, well, needs to be out of the nest for their own sake mostly.
  27. Blind InTheSun from Canada writes: I'm backing Rick on this issue and I am not much older than he is.
  28. Rick C from Canada writes: Devil Bud from Toronto, Canada:

    I'm not saying throw your kids out and provide no support. However the articles notion that a university graduate is not ready to move out on their own is ridiculous.

    Is it financially more difficult? Absolutely. However where do you draw the line? When they have saved enough for a new car? Saved up a down payment for a house? Maybe when they have saved up enough for their own kids university tuition? How about retirement? It would be a heck of a lot easier to simply never move out.

    The concept of being an adult is acting like one and dealing with the responsibilities...you know like paying bills and having to make the choice between what is needed and what is wanted.

    I know more than a handful of people who lived at home for a few years after graduating and finding work...simple because it was easier. No bills allows for a higher standard of living than you can actually afford.

    When its finally convenient for them to leave home in their late '20s or early '30s they lack basic life skills such as budgeting money and paying bills...skills they should have learned years ago.
  29. Marty McFly from Toronto, Canada writes: I moved to Toronto when I was 19 to go to university and never looked back. Now 9 years later, I have a job and still live on my own. And that hard transition between graduating and getting your first "real" job, I waitressed to pay rent as did most people I know. I don't even understand how people could live at home after university, I would go crazy.

    I find people live with their parents while working to save up money for a down payment and I guess that makes sense economically but you're putting your life on hold.

    I guess I really have no point. I just don't get why people live at home in their mid to late twenties. Why would you want to? I kind of like knowing that I am doing everything on my own.
  30. A reader from Canada writes: I left home when I turned 18 to go to university (I had to move from my town of 300 to a city of 800,000). It was difficult at first, but it was even more difficult going back home for the summer to work and not having the independence I had grown accustomed to over the school year.
    I have not lived at home since then, and am now a successful married woman with a bachelor degree and 2 children.
  31. dick brown from missy, Canada writes: Well, the kids graduating with geography/social science degrees will be depressed.......and unemployed after 3-4 years of socialist clap trap spewed by irrelevent profs.
  32. Jay D from Canada writes: I don't understand why the author of the study think it is a 'million dollar question' whether an optimum exit time from home can be determined. I doubt there is any practical application of such knowledge. Are parents expected to chain the young adult until that age and then boot him out the door? Individual growth is just that, individual. The salient point of the study is that depression is common in 20-something people.

    I don't see a problem with people moving home for up to a couple of years after graduation. I know people who did this and they all turned out fine. If I were a parent I would only worry if my kid showed no signs of having plans to move out. If the problem is employment then after a bit one needs to seek another avenue, be it more training or maybe even traveling to another city to look for relevant work.
  33. CD W from Canada writes: This is the beauty of the real world. No matter how much socialist crap a professor feeds you, he does not have to live it. It is called the tyranny of tenure. So all of these university jello heads hit the pavement and it turns out they are screwed and up to their nose hairs in debt from taking 4 years of super size that, oops , I mean fine arts.

    So to my situation, one child graduated, debt free, I used the capital markets to grow her education fund. One other child, will not complete high school, lives in the basement, and has 4 years of university tuition in the bank, well I have it in the bank. I guess it is all my fault, the kids have affluenza, and no need to do anything. Depression, that is my portion! I would like to have both kids on their economic way, one is close, the other, well, I have to go and do his laundry.
  34. M M from West Coast, Canada writes: What a bunch of crap - basically this is a study that allows parents to do nothing - here's news - it is your job as a parent to make sure your children turn into adults. And most times children need a BIG PUSH to become adults. Staying at home, once they are finished their education is a receipe for diasater. Parents - don't make your children's stay too comfortable or they will be with you until they are 40 (which some parents especially single mom's like - the child becomes the substitute husband!). Children - it is time 'cowboy up' and stand on your own two feet - yes you might have to give up eating out with your friends, get a less expensive cell-phone plan, stop buying 'toys' you really don't need and learn what it really costs to live like an adult. And yes sometimes you will be depressed and stressed, but you develop coping skills!
  35. Paul Wallnutz from Ontario, Canada writes: This is just another symptom of delayed adolescence. Not too long ago a high-school graduate typically had a career path in mind, and was itching to leave the nest.

    Now, we too often have 24yr old whiners, with BA's in some useless field of study, trying to decide what to do with their lives as they work part-time at Starbucks and try to pay-off their student loans.

    For far too many of them the highlight of their dreary day is a game of Grand Theft Auto 4. Who is to blame? Parents, take a look in the mirror.
  36. Steve Not an Alberta Redneck from Calgary, Canada writes: The key to me is whether the kid has any plan. If they are just loafing, kick them out. I once visited a doctor in LA with 5 "children" aged 20 to 31 at home and none were working. He was depressed!

    When I finished my first degree, I stayed with my parents for the next 16 months to work and save for my next one. Some people told me I should get my own place but this would have detracted from my plan.
    After the 16 months, I left for good, but with a nest egg to tide me over.

    In contrast, my youngest brother stayed well into his twenties, never got an education, and for a long time just worked for pin money. I told my parents to give him the boot, but like most of today's parents, they didn't want an empty nest. Somebody had to program the VCR, I suppose.

    Eventually he got out on his own but I think the soft touch didn't help him. However, Alberta's booming economy covered his errors, for now anyhow.
  37. S W from Canada, Canada writes: To me, many children are not being brought along to understand the real work that responsible adulthood is. Not just a job, but maintaining a relationship, residence, car etc. This escape back home is not ALL about bad economic times. Bad economic times simply highlights how bad the trainng for adulthood really was. Surely this is ANOTHER crisis that Junior can not cope with. Let's face it, this inept nonesense is begun in very early childhood. Kids having their skates laced up by parents, but "Sheila is a champion!" Kids being driven to school a few blocks away etc. But "Fred is brilliant!" It's a long list. The kids got the trinkets and services without knowing the real work that they were predicated on. Like badly excellerated executives. Doomed to be bad bosses. And university 'smattering of something' degrees and certianly past lauds hold little weight in the real working world. Blame the parenting. Parents are blind and do lie to their children to make themselves look good or 'in the know' or just to keep control. Why aren't Mr. and Mrs. Bay Street Savvy telling junior about the woes of bad financial planning, no research, loans and charge card debt? Or, are they in the same stew too? Maxed out? Blind leading the blind? If your kids haven't turned out 'right' (whatever society deems that to be), you have ONLY yourself to blame. And what is right?????? Solution? Maybe a wee stink in the army might bring some reality back to the ones that can't take care of themselves. And send the liddle ladies and Ma and Pa too!
  38. whatevah D from Canada writes: diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Devil Bud:-- The problem seems to be that some parents are almost more needy than their children. They don't know how to define themselves except as either parents or grandparents, which means that they need to maintain the self-deception that their offspring are children requiring their care (even when those offspring have their own children). Some parents need to grow up so that their own children can do the same. I should admit that it's easy for me to say having not myself been a parent, but it doesn't keep me from either observing or remembering the lessons I learned along the way and how I learned them.

    Diane Marie: some people do define themselves as part of a family... what's wrong with that? For my immigrant grandparents, family meant everything - my grandma was my nanny, cooked everything from scratch, sewed clothing - all for her family. In other cultures, family is the centre of life. I personally am glad I had such a background - it taught me what's really important.

    And before anyone jumps all over me, I left for university at 19 and while I spent a couple of summers in between at home, never went back, even though I made only $18K at my first job out of university 11 years ago.
  39. Izzy Bedibida from Woodbridge, Canada writes: North American culture is rife with with the image of someone living at home as some sort of loser. This same culture also reinforces the belief that one must move out as soon as possible, no matter how illprepared they are. I'll admit that I moved out late, but I was fully perpared for the transition. I am the first born son of conservative Eurpoean immigrents. I was expected to stay and contribute my share of "The Obligation to the Family" at least untill I got married. I was expected to save an invest my earnings. If I had spent all my money on nice cars, gadgets and designer clothing, I would have been kicked out. Thats one thing I'm very greatfull for. After dad returned from the hospital with his new hips, I promply bought a condo that I was keeping an eye on. Immediatly my parents started thier "Why are you abandoning us?/What have we done to you?/ Where's your love of the family?/Those people that laugh at you have no family values!!!/Its wrong to live alone!!/You have been polluted by North American attitudes that have no respect for the family!!/Can you even afford it?!?!" diatribe. It took them a while, to come around. They come from multy generational households, where everyone is expected to stay together and look out for eachother. They are convinced that most North Americans "throw" thier kids out too early, and it is the root cause of some of the problems our society is facing. Even though they are very proud of my accomplishments, and know that I am always a phone call away, they still think I abandoned them and the concept of family.

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