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Ottawa promises accuracy at gas pumps

The Canadian Press

Latest comment posted at 11:16 AM EDT 13/05/08

Stations to be fined $10,000 for pumps that rip off consumers, Prentice says ...Read the full article

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  1. D K from Canada writes: 'Mr. Layton said he is glad the government has caved to pressure to act, but he wants to see what new system is adopted before making an assessment if it is sufficient to protect consumers.'

    Way to go Jack! Now you should check bars to make sure they are not watering down drinks.
  2. Paul Byer from Canada writes: Perhaps at the same time he should check the subsidized housing in Toronto to make sure councillors and their councillor wives are not living in them.
  3. Gogh Forit from Canada writes: Notice how the NDP's solution to everything is to spend, spend, spend more of the taxpayer's money. It's not just Jack Layton but every NDipper in the country has the same notion that every problem be fixed by spending more taxpayer money on another layer of bureaucracy.
    I'd like an explanation on why gas stations are allowed to use an arbitrary temperature volume adjustment of 15/60 degrees celsius/fahrenheit on their pumps. If they did a temperature measurement on the underground tanks summer or winter, I'm sure they'd find very little temperature variation of that ground temperature.
  4. Derek Holtom from Swan River, Canada writes: The better story will be when the first business is caught.
  5. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    Are they going to verify octane and ethanol content also?

    They better catch somebody and start collecting thousands of dollars in fines. I want this policing to pay for itself; if we end up spending thousands of tax dollars then what's the point??
  6. Gerry Pankhurst from westport ontario, Canada writes: Don't you get it? This is just another example of Layton knowing what is going to be done and then attempting to show it as being his idea. Cheap political opportunism at its best and Jackie boy i s a specialist. I think he really believes thinking people don't see through it.
  7. Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes:
    The gasoline companies cheat! Who knew?
  8. Stan L from Canada writes: Layton is an opportunist....an ombudsman for gas indeed, what a dork......THAT said someone actually WANTS to take credit for this idea? Who is going to police this? Is this really an issue are gas retailers trying to scam people or is this caused by other factors?.....have you actually BEEN charging people the fined amounts that are in place now? If so what are the statistics on that? Are the numbers of 'scammed gas' customers increasing to warrant addtional scrutiny and heavier penalties?

    This is all icing and no cake.......a feel good to give some of the political illiterati out there the impression that there is something being done about gas.......it is far less costly to introduce this then live up to the promise of no GST on gas if it reaches 85 cents a litre or more........
  9. D K from Canada writes: Get out your resumes....you can be a gas pump inspector or GPI. A nice $60K salary, government vehicle and pension can be all yours. Will they be allowed to carry a gun? Wait and find out. 3 years experience in gas volume measurement an asset. Thanks Jack!
  10. Urban Slim from Canada writes: you partisan hacks are truly pathetic.
  11. Rick C from Canada writes: Gogh Forit from Canada writes:

    'I'd like an explanation on why gas stations are allowed to use an arbitrary temperature volume adjustment of 15/60 degrees celsius/fahrenheit on their pumps. If they did a temperature measurement on the underground tanks summer or winter, I'm sure they'd find very little temperature variation of that ground temperature.'

    LMAO! Seriously you need to go back to school.

    15 deg C is not an arbitrary number; it is in fact the standard temperature for science.

    The fact you don't know why a reference temperature is required simply proves you aren't qualified to post on this topic...and suggests you failed miserably in high school science classes.
  12. god bless canada from Canada writes: just filled up at a superstore gas pump inspection sticker dated 1997 so when do the inspectors come on line . so i went down the street to the next canadian tir pumps same sticker 1997 so looks like there are not enough inspectors or maby they are just not doing there job 11 years and no inspection lets see if the pump is off by only 1 cent a lt x number of drivers x number of years 11 that could add up pretty quick. also maby the pumps are wrong the other way so we are getting more fuel than we pay for as when things get worn out like pumps they most offten send out more than less so do they still get fined for giving to much fuel just wondering
  13. D K from Canada writes: god bless canada from Canada writes.....

    Good point if the pump delivers MORE gas than on the readings, does that mean we get fined?
  14. L Harder from Canada writes: I've noticed some discrepancies and have stopped using some pumps as a result. The best fine would be to have an on line list of retailers that are ripping people off.
  15. Steve D from St. John's, Canada writes: Is it ten times worse to rip consumers off now than it was last year or last week? Just because the price of gas is in the news (when was it not since 1970?). That being said, things do take time and consideration must be made as to repercussions and costs and there is a natural amount of creep to a point where an old regulation or fine doesn't mean what it used to. Also, the Harper government doesn't have the luxury of just being able to throw around ideas without consideration, you know like Jack and the NDP do. As a Harper supporter today has been tough due to this and the dumb apology idea but after thinking it all over I have to conlude they are still great, and Jack and the Dippers are still useless. The Liberals are still irrelevant.
  16. B K from Canada writes: You just gotta love this. It doesn't change the fact that we pay somewhere around $5.27/ US gallon, being screwed a big chunk from a layer of government called TAXES, now Mr Layton wants yet more money spent ensuring what...that we are accurately screwed for all of that money? How is it we can refine it in Regina, Saskatchewan, truck it a couple of hundred miles and only pay $3.74/US gallon (US funds of course, but certainly not a $1.63/US gallon difference). If Mr Layton is going to waste money, I'd rather he wasted it trying to rectify that. The taxes used to be an infrastructure tax that was used for upkeep of roads, streets, etc. To my understanding it is no longer (if someone knows exactly how it was converted and to what, I'd be interested in hearing), as our road suck big time and that tax never did disappear. 3% of the stations are dishonest? I'd say that the percentage of politicians that need their integrity adjusted is far greater than 3%.
  17. Stuart Seeley from Toronto, Canada writes: While 2 year intervals is much better than 10 or 11 years, as some people have noticed... pumps can generate well over $20,000 in profits just being out a penny for 2 years.

    But, as others have stated... the ethanol content is a much bigger issue.
    Ethanol should be cheaper than gas as it doesn't contain as much energy, yet we're getting some mystery amount of ethanol mixed in, and being charged full 'gas' price for it.
  18. Stan L from Canada writes: L Harder from Canada writes: I've noticed some discrepancies and have stopped using some pumps as a result. The best fine would be to have an on line list of retailers that are ripping people off.

    That's what the joke is of all of this......95% of the time the problem being alluded to with respects to the price versus volume purchased, is with the check valve....a check valve issue can work in the consumers favour or the retailers favour (it's a 50/50 shot which way it will go), it is not in most gas retailers interest to not maintain pumps in this respect.....this whole initiative seems like an overblown bit of puffery to make the ignorant feel like there is something being done about gas prices....in the absense of ACTUALLY doing anything at all.....when in doubt blame the gas retailer HE must be the one ripping you off.......LOL
  19. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: If they're only being inspected every 10 years or so, that's not enough. Is there still such a thing as Weights and Measures Canada? They used to send inspectors to a seed plant I used to work at, and tested all the scales once every few years. They damn well should be testing the pumps more often than that.
  20. D K from Canada writes: 'B K from Canada writes: You just gotta love this.
    ......
    How is it we can refine it in Regina, Saskatchewan, truck it a couple of hundred miles and only pay $3.74/US gallon '

    Simple and obvious...taxes. Take away Canada's 'free' health care and you can have cheaper gas as well.
  21. John McCain from Canada writes: Spicydoc I have also wondered the same thing regarding octane levels.

    When I fill my old sports car with regular fuel its acceleration is poor. With premium it still has lots of life. What I have noticed over the years is that at certain gas stations when I purchase premium the car performs as though it was on regular octane. What is to stop a rogue station owner from putting regular fuel in the intermediate and premium storage tanks?
  22. Kim Morton from Canada writes: That would mean that ALL the gas stations must be charged since there is no reason Canadians should be paying over 80 cents/l for gas.
  23. Nick B. from Canada writes: Kim Morton, on what great economic knowledge do you base that statement?
  24. Rick C from Canada writes: Kim Morton from Canada writes: 'That would mean that ALL the gas stations must be charged since there is no reason Canadians should be paying over 80 cents/l for gas.'

    Really...and you would know this how?
  25. Vasili Yeremenko from Canada writes: I am surprised the Tories don't fine us for hurting the oil companies' feelings. Wait 1.33/l, they already are.
  26. D K from Canada writes: 'Kim Morton from Canada writes: That would mean that ALL the gas stations must be charged since there is no reason Canadians should be paying over 80 cents/l for gas'

    ......as she speeds down the 401 at 140Km/hr in her Hummer. No reason at all.
  27. Ned Chiwalski from Oilberta, Canada writes: I can see this turning into another gun registry debacle. The govt is going to spend millions then billions all to ensure that we are not getting ripped off by paying for 1 cup of gas per 20 liters.

    Is this the most pressing issue of the day....
  28. I learned from that from Toronto, Canada writes: Gas is expensive. For 4 litres of milk I pay $4.59. For 4 litres of gas, I pay $5.00. I am confused. If the Minister is trying to protect the public, can he give any consideration to the fact that gas short measuring is a lucrative crime and $10,000 fine would be a “cost of doing business” fee Intentional or wilful blindness to miscalibrated pump measurement would be fraud. As a forensic accountant, I know that the GONE Theory of fraud often explains why fraud is committed. GONE refers (please excuse capitals not italics available) to G for GREED, O for OPPORTUNITY (just 150 inspectors nationwide is my information), N is for fraudster need (often for fancy lifestyles, drugs or gambling or covering debts, also NERVE and NARCISSISM and E is for the EXPECTATION OF NOT GETTING CAUGHT OR PUNISHED. Given a 5% measuring error, then a pump with 5,000 litres (100 fillups of 50 litres) per day would be making an extra 250 litres of $1.25 daily or $312. For a month, that would be more than $9,000. After 2 months, even with the maximum fine of $10,000, the profit would be $8,000. For a year, it would be $108,000 less $10,000 fine. GREED, coupled with OPPORTUNITY and NERVE and the small EXPECTATION OF BEING CAUGHT = potential fraud on consumers. Even inside trading on the stock market does not yield so well as this crime Further, if there are only 150 inspectors, the expectation of getting caught will be small. Can the Minister give some consideration to increasing enforcement and requiring that gas pumps be recalibrated and tested every six months by an independent outsider? Such a move would reduce the potential loss to consumers. If my automobile has to be tested for emissions regularly, then perhaps consideration should be given to annual independent inspection and recalibration of the gas pump that fuels my car.
  29. Likes Cleavage from Canada writes: The real abusers are not the gas stations, they make a pittance. It is the companies taking the oil out of the ground where the profit has jumped over 200%. Go after these guys.
  30. Vincent Clement from Windsor, Canada writes: Instead of a fine, which the consumer will end up paying anyway, they should use a system similar to the pass and fail used for restaurant inspections.

    It should include annual and random inspections. Fail an inspection and a big red sign goes on each pump informing the customer of the failure. Pass and you get a lovely green sign. All this information should be posted on the internet including the date and type of infraction. More information is better.
  31. J G from Canada writes: A far greater rip-off is the ethanol in fuel. Your vehicle travels 25% less distance on a litre of ethanol so even a 5% mix of ethanol lowers the distance travelled. Hence, you buy more. Brilliant!
  32. Gogh Forit from Canada writes: Rick C: Instead of being an egotistic self-centured git why not enlighten those of us who are not as gifted as you, or just me, in this case. You sound like you work (but not for much longer) at a soon to be closed auto plant. Guess you'll be packing your bags for Newfoundland and perhaps just wait at home for welfare cheques. At any rate while I might need some science instruction you could do with an attitude adjustment.
  33. The Skipper from Canada writes: 'blah,blah,blah.'
  34. Gogh Forit from Canada writes: Never mind Rick C, I got the answer. But hey thanks for the instruction that there is an intellectual means test to post a comment in G&M forums. If that is the case why do they let you post?
  35. Lyn Alg from Canada writes: I didn't realize that this problem was so widespread. I have been purchasing gas at a Loblaws Superstore and I have noticed a problem since day one. When I depress the pump handle to start the gas flowing, the meter registers 15 cents before any gas starts flowing from the nozzle. Yet when I stop the flow of gas, it stops immediately. I have constantly complained to the Superstore personnel but they claim that is normal. Does anyone know where I could officially lodge a complaint? Incidentally, I have used many other self-serve stations and this never happens.
  36. RD Lone from Vancouver, Canada writes: Gogh Forit: he's stating the obvious, the price is what it is because that's how much it costs on the world oil market (plus tax the government levies). When someone throws out a random number like $0.80/l it's just making up a number.

    This is why politicians do stuff like this, because so much of the electorate are sheep. So they look at all these stations and only 3% are wrong; they don't actually say how much they are inaccurate by, and they don't note that it could be in the user's benefit as well. Now they will hire 100s of overpaid inspectors backed up by more useless bureaucracy to save the people who think gasoline should be 80 cents/litre. Great! My tax dollars hard at work.
  37. Bob Smitherman from Canada writes: There's a simple way to find out if dealers are purposely ripping off consumers. Based on historical test results, if the distribution is normal (i.e. equal number of pumps reading high as pumps reading low) then this is random error. however if the curve is skewed in one direction, then that would indicate that dealers are tampering with the pumps. No details have been given. Any statistician worth his or her salt should be able to distinguish between a scam and just random errors.

    By the way the flowmeters are positive displacement devices that don't need to be calibrated often. The normal approach for a particular model of flowmeter is to audit it on an increasing time interval. Shorter periods at first, and longer periods once confidence in the accuracy has been established. This way you cut way down on un-necessary audits and calibrations.
  38. Ricky for a Centrist Canada from Canada writes:
    What's the fine for price-fixing and profiteering?
  39. Bob Smitherman from Canada writes: Lyn Alg from Canada writes: Congratulations to Stephen Harper for planning to take concrete action against these dishonest, SCUMBAGs for deliberately ripping off the customers. The penalty should be, at minimum, $100,000 and their annual tax returns scrutinized for the past 10 years. This situation exists because of the previous lax Liberal governments who allowed this situation to exist. Could there have been money passed under the table to certain Liberal members? Shades of Adscam. Another reason why Harper should be given a majority government to clean up the past mess created by the Liberals. ================================== Oh man, take a valium. Do you realise how ridiculous you sound?
  40. michael langill from France writes: This is just stupid. A whole new police bureaucracy to worry about getting the pennies right at the gas pump while the real issue is the price itself and how it is set. Oil companies are raking in record multi-billion dollar profits as the pump price, coincidently (sure), goes to record levels. Do we not suppose there is some connection between the two?
  41. Stan L from Canada writes: Lyn Alg from Canada writes: Congratulations to Stephen Harper for planning to take concrete action against these dishonest, SCUMBAGs for deliberately ripping off the customers. The penalty should be, at minimum, $100,000 and their annual tax returns scrutinized for the past 10 years. This situation exists because of the previous lax Liberal governments who allowed this situation to exist. Could there have been money passed under the table to certain Liberal members? Shades of Adscam. Another reason why Harper should be given a majority government to clean up the past mess created by the Liberals. Whoah......hold the phone here...before you start the ticker tape parade.....where is the proof that they are intentionally ripping off consumers? in fact in the case of equipment failure we could be ripping them off....The fact is that this is a boondoggle, busy work intended to fool the les astute that there is a some action being taken to lower gas prices....when in doubt blame the low man on the totem pole......Even the government indicates fairly low number for this and further the haven't answered some basic questions like...Is this really an issue are gas retailers trying to scam people or is this caused by other factors?.....have you actually BEEN charging people the fined amounts that are in place now? If so what are the statistics on that? Are the numbers of 'scammed gas' customers increasing to warrant addtional scrutiny and heavier penalties? .......and BTW nice tie in to the Liberals....makes no sense whatsoever...but if it floats your boat, go with it.
  42. jimmie rabbit from toronto, Canada writes: what about the gov't. they rip us off at the pumps. gst increases with the gas price. what 'bout that?

    least if the pump's crooked the operator gets it not some faceless ***** in Ottawa.
  43. D K from Canada writes: 'Lyn Alg from Canada writes: I didn't realize that this problem was so widespread. I have been purchasing gas at a Loblaws Superstore and I have noticed a problem since day one. When I depress the pump handle to start the gas flowing, the meter registers 15 cents before any gas starts flowing from the nozzle. Yet when I stop the flow of gas, it stops immediately. I have constantly complained to the Superstore personnel but they claim that is normal.'
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    And yet you keep going back? A sucker is born every minute!
  44. Trillian Rand from Canada writes: Is this the same government that has been dragging its feet on improving our food labelling laws? It can't be because that would suggest gasoline is more important than food. It's not, is it?
  45. D K from Canada writes: 'Trillian Rand from Canada writes: Is this the same government that has been dragging its feet on improving our food labelling laws? It can't be because that would suggest gasoline is more important than food. It's not, is it? '

    Sure it is. No gas equals no food in stores. No gas equals no farm equipment running. Gas trumps food believe it or not. However this latest politicking is pathetic.

    Here's a thought: maybe this will help station owners i.e. did you know your pumps are delivering 5% more gas than measured? Here's to the 3% , it will only cost the taxpayer $100 million ;)
  46. Mike Jan from Ottawa, Canada writes: I believe the greater crime in all this is not Jack Layton's opportunism nor Prime Minister Stephen Harper's reaction but the public's reaction. It appears to me that the public is trying desperately to hang on to an unsustainable energy source. The politicians are only trying to give the public what it wants in order to get votes. Yes truly useful leaders would guide the public out of its dependency on oil but those are few and far between. Most politicians don't seem to want to take the risk however necessary. The science is in fossil fuel emmissions are destroying the environment and slowly rendering our future on this planet doubtful. We will not go easily into the quiet night but will go slowly, painfully, with conditions becoming more and more intolerable. We will lose our homes, starve, fall prey to infestations, disease, war, die in horrible storms or be swept out to see in tsunamis or as victims of crime. It seems to me that to squabble about rising gas prices is to misidirect our energy. We should be squabbling about and pressuring politicians to provide us with alternate energy sources so that we can say good bye to gas pumps and good bye to the destruction of the environment. We should be glad gas prices are rising because this will mean lower consumption resulting in lower CO2 emmissions thus helping the environment that, after all, sustains us all. Without a liveable environment none of us will need gas - we won't be driving anywhere.
  47. Rafael Sanchez from Ottawa, Canada writes: Government's bureacratic incompetence rips us off of many, many, $$$ and yet there is little outcry about this. Does not everybody notice that bureacracies only react when they get caught? Most of the time they are just in autodrive, or sleep at the wheel.

    More civil servants! Will the inspectors costs us more than what they will solve? The answer is very likely. I am really tired of the answer to everything under the sun being more taxpayer money for more bureacrats. At least adjust the fines so we recover from the gas companies whatever the program will cost.
  48. Able Bodied Man from It's NOT 'VICTORIA' Island, Canada writes: The federal government says it will step up inspections at gas stations across Canada this summer and will soon increase fines for inaccurate pumps to $10,000 from $1,000.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Wouldn't it be great if we could jack up 10 times the fine for every politico who under-delivers?
  49. Andre Poirier from Canada writes: What a gimmick ...

    13 years ago the federal government completed a feasibility study for the construction of a high speed rail system between ONtario and Quebec. They had everything they needed to justify the investment, yet Jean Chretien, Bernard Landry and Mike Harris all had their own political pet peeve priorities and never realized it. Were it built today there would be a lot less pressure on people who want to travel to spend $$$ on high gas prices which are only mildly controlled by the government. We could have improved the manufacturing by building rolling stock for the trains as the network is constructed improved and expanded. Same hands building different modes of transportation. With the abundance of electricity in Quebec we would be dependant on less carbon based energy sources for our movement.

    1 year ago I wrote the government recommending they look at the High Speed Rail again and they gave me the brush off ...

    Who is actually swayed by these types of gimmicks ... we're going to control gas prices so you don't get ripped off... How about we're going to position the economy such that it is not so highly dependant on gas.
  50. Andre Poirier from Canada writes: In my post I asked 'Who falls for these gimmicks?'

    Obviously Lyn Alg is one of them.

    Start proposing real solutions partisan girl...
  51. Rain Couver from Canada writes: Accuracy at the gas pump, although important, is something that the government should be on top of already. Ensuring that we get what we pay for is important, but has the government not been paying attention to that?

    What we need is something done about the cost of gas.
  52. mech eng from calgary, Canada writes: I don't like the $10,000 fine. Too cheap.

    Calculate how much the gas station made in excess profits based upon total gas sales from the time the pumps were last certified. Then add $10,000.

    For a repeat offender, double it.

    A quick check on the internet shows a typical station will pump about 350,000 liters per month. That's 233 fifty litre fillups per day.

    At $1.50 per litre, a 3% error (in favour of the owner) will net them $15,750 per MONTH. With a two year inspection period...an unscrupulous owner could rake in $378,000 between inspections. Think about it...he can sell $378,000 of gas that never existed. Some of that goes to the government, some goes to business taxes, but he never had to pay for it so he's probably looking at $200,000 in his pocket.

    $10,000 fine won't do anything to curb unethical people who have figured out this scam...steal a little bit thousands of times and nobody will complain. (The government has this figured out...every single tax hike is only going to cost us a 'few pennies per purchase' or some load of garbage like that)
  53. Stan L from Canada writes: Clearly there are a great many posters here who are not fooled by this make-work, ill conceived boondoggle, and facile attempt to try and pass the buck. The only thing this announcement says......is that there is an election coming soon, so look forward to more of these long on rhetoric short on detail and fact announcements coming soon from this government......
  54. D K from Canada writes: 'Lyn Alg from Canada writes: Congratulations to Stephen Harper for planning to take concrete action against these dishonest, SCUMBAGs for deliberately ripping off the customers. The penalty should be, at minimum, $100,000 and their annual tax returns scrutinized for the past 10 years.'

    No the fine should be a hundred million gilllion dollars. That will teach them. Of course the program adminstrative costs will be a million zillion dollars.

    A cheaper program would be to give all drivers a measuring flask. Drivers could then measure whether the gas volume they are pumping is correct (calibrated to 15C of course) LOL.
  55. Norm Langford from Markham, Canada writes: Re 3 per cent of gas pumps tested between 1999 and 2007 were inaccurate, if you look closely at your bill and compare it to the price on the sign the % is probably closer to 100%. I bought gas today and it was 1.242 cents per litre not the 1.24 on the sign. Sure it's only .2 cents difference but it adds up.
  56. Chris Keating from ottawa, Canada writes: Norm Langford from Markham, Canada writes: Re 3 per cent of gas pumps tested between 1999 and 2007 were inaccurate, if you look closely at your bill and compare it to the price on the sign the % is probably closer to 100%. I bought gas today and it was 1.242 cents per litre not the 1.24 on the sign. Sure it's only .2 cents difference but it adds up.

    --->

    Ok, i'll add it up. Let's say 50 lites a week, which is a failry average amount, probably even a bit high.

    That's 10 cents a week.
    $5.20 a year
    Over a 25 year time frame, it has cost you a whopping $130.

    THINK people. Think.
  57. Jon Butlin from Canada writes: If the pump is out of whack (whether by worn/faulty equipment or on purpose) would you be able to tell just by multiplying the cost of gas by units pumped (i.e. gas is $1.24, pump in 10 litres and it should say $12.40 at the pump)?
  58. Maple Leaf from Canada writes: The biggest thief of all is the damn government itself.
    In our country, over 50% of the gas price is comprised of the taxes...
    Higher the gas price = More gas tax revenue for the government~
    How about lowering the taxes and stop gouging its own citizens instead???
    A wishful thinking???
  59. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: D K writes, 'Simple and obvious...taxes. Take away Canada's 'free' health care and you can have cheaper gas as well.' Not even that, gas taxes fund spending at all levels. It's a matter of taxing enough, or not. In the US case, the dollar a gallon difference is a contributor to deficits at the local and state level, as well as federal.

    http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/07/news/economy/teacher/index.htm

    However, the trend in the US is for local and state governments (if not federal) to raise non-income taxes, which is easier to do on a 'divide and conquer' basis including sales taxes. Sales tax in the Chicago area (Cook County) is now 9.25%, 10.25% just in time for Canadians arriving for Thanksgiving (Columbus Day) holidays - and tack on up to an additional 1% in City of Chicago surtaxes if you are downtown. Meanwhile on the west coast, the leading mayoral candidate Sam Adams has a gas tax hike as part of his platform, for local road repairs that have been lagging.
  60. mech eng from calgary, Canada writes: Jon Butlin...

    The problem is when the pump says you got 50 litres of gas, but you really only got 48.5 litres (It delivers less than it says)

    That is only a 3% error, and it just cost you $2 or so, depending on the price per litre.

    Multiply that by hundreds of cars per day and ka-ching!
  61. Chris Keating from ottawa, Canada writes: Maple Leaf from Canada writes: The biggest thief of all is the damn government itself.
    In our country, over 50% of the gas price is comprised of the taxes...
    Higher the gas price = More gas tax revenue for the government~
    How about lowering the taxes and stop gouging its own citizens instead???
    A wishful thinking???

    I can tell you what would happen. The same thing that happened when Harper gave 2% back to all Canadians in his GST cut. The companies add the tax back on the original price.

    If Joe Customer is willing to pay $1.25 for gas, and the government knocks 20 cents off the tax, the people running the Gas Companies would have to be developmentally challenged not to add that 20 cents right back on. Free 20% profit increase.
  62. Stan L from Canada writes: mech eng from calgary, Canada writes: Jon Butlin...
    The problem is when the pump says you got 50 litres of gas, but you really only got 48.5 litres (It delivers less than it says)
    That is only a 3% error, and it just cost you $2 or so, depending on the price per litre.
    Multiply that by hundreds of cars per day and ka-ching!

    What do you suggest when the problem is the other way around? 95% of the time when this does happen this is all due to mechanical issues rather than 'intentional scamming' and the mechanical issue can favour the retailer or the car driver......since you are intent on beliveing this is such a BIG issue...how do the retailers get to retreive lost revenue from a pump that did not work in their favour?....
  63. Able Bodied Man from It's NOT 'VICTORIA' Island, Canada writes: The federal government says it will step up inspections at gas stations across Canada this summer and will soon increase fines for inaccurate pumps to $10,000 from $1,000.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm surprised that all Canadians who buy gasoline are not being punished for contributing to this situation.
  64. Chris Keating from ottawa, Canada writes: mech eng from calgary, Canada writes: Jon Butlin...

    The problem is when the pump says you got 50 litres of gas, but you really only got 48.5 litres (It delivers less than it says)

    That is only a 3% error, and it just cost you $2 or so, depending on the price per litre.

    ****************
    The math isn't quite right there. It is 3% of pumps that are 'inaccurate'. It doesn't say up or down. Let's assume down for pessimistic sake. To have a net 3% increase in gas prices those 3 pumps would need to be off by 100%. They are likely off by < 2%. Which means net gas prices are off by roughly 0.06%. Peanuts.
  65. Doug Edwards from rural, Canada writes: The current fine is $1000 there has never been one conviction that resulted in a fine of $1000. There will never be a conviction that results in a fine of $10,000. Great publicity about a current topic though.
  66. D Le5 from Canada writes: Glad I moved closer to transit...filled my car 4 times since Feb...Up yours oil barons!
  67. Able Bodied Man from It's NOT 'VICTORIA' Island, Canada writes:
    THE SHORTAGE INSPECTION TAX

    'Mr. Speaker.'

    'The House recognizes the member from Outer Space.'

    'Mr. Speakers. I speak as a Canadian when I say we need a new tax to combat the pump under-delivery situation. I propose the government implement this tax immediately so we can all benefit from a better environment.

    'Our 'shortage inspection tax' promises to reduce the amount of pollution by taxing short deliveries at the pump. The tax will be added to the consumer's bill, but it will be revenue neutral and refunded by a tax reduction in the 2012 re-election tax. The forms, Mr. Speaker. are very simple and have carbon copies built right in.... I speak as a Canadian, but I cannot vouch for the government members.'
  68. Able Bodied Man from It's NOT 'VICTORIA' Island, Canada writes:
    THE SHORTAGE INSPECTION TAX DEBATE - I

    'Mr. Speaker.'

    'The House recognizes the member from the Moons of Saturn.'

    'Mr. Speaker. Is the member from Outer Space out of his mind? Does he not see that this tax must be implemented in time for the Olympic Games? In the Olympics we have a great opportunity to show the world how beautiful our taxes are. It would be advisable Mr Speaker to vote on this tax so it can be put in by 2009 and tested to remover the bugs before the Games open in 2010.'
  69. boom boom from Canada writes: Layton and McGuinty ought to get together, look at all the neat things they could do, like banning bags, insects and all the other nasty things in this universe.
    How did these guys get into any kind of responsible position? Only in Canada.
  70. Jesus does NOT vote Conservative from Red Deer, Canada writes: Why do the Cons blame Layton for this? Isn’t it the Cons themselves who are implementing this?
  71. Geiseric the Lame from Canada writes: wouldn't a bill to this effect have to go through the Justice Committee?

    yet another DOA
  72. Jesus does NOT vote Conservative from Red Deer, Canada writes: Is there a case that the pumps may be un-calibrated in favor of the customer?
  73. Jesus does NOT vote Conservative from Red Deer, Canada writes: The Cons are bitchin’ about taxes &8211; isn&8217;t it the customer who will end up paying for this program?
  74. Stan L from Canada writes: Jesus does NOT vote Conservative from Red Deer, Canada writes: Is there a case that the pumps may be un-calibrated in favor of the customer?

    Yes it happens, how much? who knows, but the check value can go either way if something is off in delivering gas...safe to assume 50% of the time the error in favour of the customer? hard to say.
  75. mech eng from calgary, Canada writes: I guarantee you that the pumps in error are in error on the side of the seller.

    Quite simply, measure deliveries vs what has been pumped, factor in what is in the tank by 'dipping' it with a gauge and you will know whether you are pumping more that your gauges say you are.

    Then you get your pump fixed.

    When they are out in the other direction...it might take a few months to get around to it. In the meantime, your customer is overpaying.

    chris keating....i hope you are not in the gas selling business if you think a three percent error (or 2% error) is only increasing the cost of gas by 0.06%

    BTW...it is not uncommon for gauges and meters (cheap ones) to have an accuracy of /-5%....and the inaccuracy is typically repeatable. That means that that a meter that is measuring high will ALWAYS measure high.

    By the way...oil and gas companies spend hundreds of thousands of dollars per year to get the most accurate gauges possible at locations where a transfer of ownership takes place. One million barrels of crude @ $100/ barrel = $100 million x 1% error not in their favour = $1 million in lost profit.

    This is not tolerated in the oil and gas industry, but retailers are allowed to run with cheap meters that they don't maintain and calibrate...I call BS.
  76. Stan L from Canada writes: mech eng from calgary, Canada writes: I guarantee you that the pumps in error are in error on the side of the seller.

    REALLY? do you have proof of this? becuase the government doesn't......so where do you get your information, maybe you should give them a call.
  77. Chris Keating from ottawa, Canada writes: mech eng from calgary, Canada writes: I guarantee you that the pumps in error are in error on the side of the seller.

    chris keating....i hope you are not in the gas selling business if you think a three percent error (or 2% error) is only increasing the cost of gas by 0.06%

    ***************

    Fair argument that they have probably fixed customer sided errors. As for my math it *is* correct. We aren't talking about a 3% error. We are talking about 3% of pumps being in error. BIG difference.

    Even if we assume 5%: 3% of pumps having an error of 5% means that net gas expenditure is increased by 3%     5% -- the other 97% are running correctly.
  78. Chris Keating from ottawa, Canada writes: ooops, my last line there is meant to read:

    Even if we assume 5%: 3% of pumps having an error of 5% means that net gas expenditure is increased by 3% * 5% -- the other 97% are running correctly.
  79. Wilma De Bruyn from Toronto, Canada writes: Are they talking about Politicians???That's just too cheap!!!

    A lot of gas__oline up there in Ottawa??

    Would they be fined for carbon footprint???
  80. Rick C from Canada writes: Gogh Forit from Canada writes: 'Rick C: Instead of being an egotistic self-centured git why not enlighten those of us who are not as gifted as you, or just me, in this case. You sound like you work (but not for much longer) at a soon to be closed auto plant.'

    Sorry to burst your bubble.

    I am chemical engineer who works in Alberta's oil and gas industry.

    I don't fear for my job at this point in time.
  81. Vote NDP in the next federal/ provincial election from Toronto, Canada writes: In fact, I want the headline to say "Ottawa promises a new law prohibiting prices to exceed $1.00".

    Now that would be accurate.
  82. Stewart Pid from Canada writes: The slime sucking pigs in Ottawa are screwing me worse than any gas pump ever did ... lower the taxes on gas ... phoney baloney excise taxes ... income taxes ... GST etc etc etc.
    What a crock of crap ... has Jack ever had a real job or has he fed at the public teat his whole life??
  83. D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes: Make sure the pump prices are accurate. Is that a joke? I am sure people want to know they are being properly serviced. This is the extent of our government's economic action? Well, you do have Mr. Flaherty appear out of nowhere every few days to say that all is well. And now the prices at the pumps are accurate.
  84. Yogie Bear from The Forest, Canada writes: 150 inspectors for all of Canada

    Why wait until the end of gouging season, summer. to levy fines of $10,000?

    Shame

    IMHO
  85. colin mc from Toronto, Canada writes: Okay, so maybe we are screwed out of a thimble of gas for every 10 litres. Why doesn't the government examine how much we are screwed out of when we pay $1.25 a litre and the oil companies make windfall profits.

    Could a Conservative Prime Minister from Alberta suggest that its the pumps at the refineries not the gas stations that are screwed up? I doubt it!
  86. D K from Canada writes: "WHY NOT TO Vote NDP in the next federal/ provincial election from Toronto, Canada writes: In fact, I want the headline to say "Ottawa promises a new law prohibiting prices to exceed $1.00".

    Now that would be accurate."

    The headline would also say Vote NDP salary capped at $30K.

    You could always move to China or some other communist nation. Seems they would suit your values better.
  87. Nick B. from Canada writes: Vote NDP - that'd do wonders for our "carbon footprint". At that price there'd be no gas to buy!
  88. Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes:
    Canadians were born to be ripped off.
  89. Able Bodied Man from It's NOT 'VICTORIA' Island, Canada writes: Stan L from Canada writes: ...vote Conservative from Red Deer, Canada writes: Is there a case that the pumps may be un-calibrated in favor of the customer?

    Yes it happens, ...safe to assume 50% of the time the error in favour of the customer? hard to say.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Just think. In Canada a retailer may soon be fined $10,000 for giving the customer more than pays for. Of course, the overage to the consumer will be taxed as unexpected income.

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