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Homes market flooded by sellers

LORI MCLEOD

Globe and Mail Update

Latest comment posted at 11:01 AM EDT 23/05/08

April resale listings rise to record across Canada, with biggest surges in Saskatoon and Toronto ...Read the full article

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  1. CallofDuty . from Toronto, Canada writes: I think many people have finally realized the size of the whole they dug when they signed for that huge mortgage.
  2. Steve P from Great White North, Canada writes: As with any purchase of any kind; do it if it's in your means to do so.
  3. Mike Constantine from Canada writes: Canada is where the US was in 2006 when the US Real Estate Market "Cooled". At that time everyone denied there was a Bubble in US Real Estate.

    In Toronto, the market has "cooled" and sales have fallen for 4 straight months and inventory is piling up. Reminds me of what happened in Toronto in the early 90's before the Real Estate Bubble Bust.

    Many of the over leveraged that bought a home with a 40 year/ 0 down mortgage will soon know the meaning of being "upside down" on their mortgage.
  4. Trevor Ouellette from Canada writes: 99% of the time is a great time to own real estate. The other 1% will take your head off and make you want to to commit suicide.

    Most people are too stupid to know when to buy and sell.
  5. m m from Canada writes: .
    There's a sucker born every second ...
  6. Dom From TO from Ontario, Canada writes: And so it begins in the great TO, first come inventory increases and next are price reductions.

    Just wait until all those commuters get home and log on in their McMansions, they are going to flip out at any negative comments.

    This is going to be a bloodbath and most are going to be pining for the days of the RE bubble
  7. bill k from Canada writes: ``Mike Constantine from Canada writes:In Toronto, the market has "cooled" and sales have fallen for 4 straight months and inventory is piling up. Reminds me of what happened in Toronto in the early 90's before the Real Estate Bubble Bust`

    It`s starting to look very similar to the early 90`s housing crash. There is no doubt home prices in Toronto are set to fall and fall hard. I waited to after the crash last time in the early 90 to buy. For those young ones looking to buy a home should wait and laugh as home prices will cintinue to drop. POP......What was that
  8. Ed Long from Canada writes: Nothing about B.C. so I will supply something.

    Fraser Valley Real Estate Board (that's all the communities south of the Fraser)

    New Listings Up 36% March-April, 2008 Up 52.6% April 08 -April 07
    Sales Up 35.9% March-April, 2008, Up 0.3% April 08 - April 07
    Active Listings Up 18.7% March-April, 2008, Up 43.1% April 08 - April07

    This does not include sales or available units of existing or planned new projects.

  9. M T from Ottawa, Canada writes: "Single-family home prices dropped 7.7% in the first quarter in the largest year-over-year decline since the National Association of Realtors began reporting prices in 1982"
    --CNN

    but this can't happen in Canada of course...
  10. The Oracle from Caiman Islands, Canada writes: And.....Who didn't see this coming????
  11. colombina l from Canada writes: "Asked whether it was a good time to buy a home, one-third of those surveyed had their head explode"
  12. John McMortimer-Boyles from An Undisclosed Underground Location Safe From Nuclear Attack, Canada writes: How much of the listings increase is speculators who, having realized they are not as likely to make a killing flipping houses, are now trying to unload their inventories before the market really starts to slide?

    It's about time some of the speculative fluff got blown out of the real estate market. Maybe when prices drop to a more sustainable level, a few more families can actually afford to buy a home.

    I know in my own neighbourhood in Edmonton, house listing prices are off about 10% from where they were this time last year. Not the kind of thing to make a real estate speculator happy, but making houses more affordable for people who want and need a home.
  13. can I vote again from around-Kingston, Canada writes: I thought the most disturbing fact was two-thirds have those long-term mortgages... oouch!

    At least we have inflation under control... any rise in interest rates will affect future purchases (and those dastardly home line-of-credits)
  14. Jeff C from Canada writes: I'd like to see another 20% 'correction' in Calgary, I believe it's down something in the 10-15% range since last summer, but if it goes 40% then I'll be starting to get worried. And if it pops by more than 50%, well I'll probably be out of a job anyway....
  15. Derek Holtom from Swan River, Canada writes: Saskatoon is truly booming right now. Good for them.
    Manitoba should try and lure all the retirees from Saskatoon.
    But then, given the option, I can't see a lot of people wanting to move from Saskatchewan to Manitoba.
    At least we have cheap Hydro!
  16. Iain Scott from Canada writes: Mike Constantine, Dom, etc. Yes, of course the sky is falling. Of course. John McMortimer-Boyles is right. A large precentage of Calgary has been speculating in Saskatoon, many who have never seen flat and never tasted mustard. So now, after seeing a healthy profit, they are retiring their coin back into their bank accounts or their oil wells.
  17. Ricky for a Centrist Canada from Canada writes:
    Here's hoping the profiteers, flippers, speculators, and other a-holes who artificially inflated home values take a bath in red ink.

    Serves you right.
  18. Mike M from Montreal, Canada writes: Any data on Montreal?
  19. George Duncan from Canada writes: The surge in listings in Saskatoon, for example, is of no surprise. The trades etc people who burned their bridges, for example, in Alberta had no choice but to leave so they went to Saskatoon and pumped sunshine up everyones' rear end. The so called building boom in that city was nothing more than a marketing and sales campaign which was totally artificial and could not be sustained. The next place these so called self-appointed promoters will go is onto unempolyment where they should be because many of them were getting a days pay but were not doing a day s work.Where and what kind of jobs are in Saskatchewan? Saskatchewan was/is/will continue to be a government payroll province with high taxes to support many of these useless and non productive jobs.
  20. m m from Canada writes: Dick Nails from Canada writes: "For all of you that hate home ownership and wealth creation, this must be a happy day. I heard a story that thousands of workers in ON lost their jobs. Gawd how that must make you all feel so superior. And to top it off, thousands died in China. For you haters of humanity, today is a good day. For humans, a bad day."

    What does home ownership have to do with wealth creation, wealth creation with humanity and all of above with earthquake in China?
  21. voy fitzsimmons from Canada writes: Mr. Nails, what does this have to do with the disaster in China? We can play "spot the logical fallacies" in your message.

    I agree that smugness is ugly, but there's nothing wrong with people being happy that housing values may be poised to return to more historical norms. That's good news for many, not so great for folks who treat their homes as a bank machine.
  22. Patriots in 2008 from Toronto, Canada writes: Whoa, keep your pants on! I don't know where they've been getting their statistics, but in Toronto "proper", I know for a fact that prices have NOT been coming down and there has NOT been a glut of real estate. Why's that? Because I'm shopping for a new place!

    A friend of mine also recently received an offer of $100K over her purchase price from just 3 yrs ago - and her home isn't even listed for sale!!!

    I suspect that the statistics that they're talking about are from suburbia - the massive suburban sprawl around Toronto which is indeed a horrible place to live. Quickly slapped up, shoddy workmanship, cookie cutter homes where you absolutely must drive everywhere because the city planners completely screwed everything up. The suburbs may have tons of listings hitting the market, but I have no idea because I haven't been shopping for a home out there in the middle of that suburban hell.
  23. Roop Misir from Toronto, Canada writes:
    At times, easy money is associated with speculation in various items. Nowhere is this more obvious than in the housing markets. Yes, a human necessity (shelter, food) becomes an object of speculation. Fueled by greed perhaps? Or investment savvy?

    Isn a sense, a correction is in order Some say long overdue?

    A return to traditional lending standards means a return to traditional prices, which are far below current super-inflated prices.

    Playing with fire comes with risks!
  24. Darcy Meyer from Canada writes: George Duncan.....Get a clue man. While I will agree with you to a certain extent with regards to some of the growth (price) being driven by speculation, there has also been demand from people coming back and moving to Saskatoon. Secondarily, the market had been stagnant and well below national average for a long time and had some catching up to do, that is part of the reason for huge price increases.

    And calling Saskatchewan a government payroll province, again partially true, but again so is all of canada depending on what your comparing. What kind of Jobs are in Sask (certainly not unproductive), many productive engineers here building mines, finding oil, and others providing food for millions. Also one of the biggest research clusters in north america house some great scientists, the largest research project in Canada (Synchrotron) and biotech companies, developing better strains of crop, finding vaccines for animals and humans, etc..
    But hey, don't let reality get in the way of slagging an entire province.
  25. Biggest Redneck from United States writes: Listings rose by a whopping 121 per cent in Saskatoon from the year before, the biggest increase of any city. They rose by a more moderate 18 per cent in Toronto. While this gain was seventh on the list, it has an impact because Toronto usually makes up about 18 per cent of national sales activity on the Multiple Listing Service

    Lots of percentages with no numbers to put them in perspective.
    If the listings went from 10 to 20 thats a 100% increase but its still only 10 houses.
    What is this in the total amount of houses owned? It is so east to talk percentages and make something look worse then it is.
  26. Mr. Pink from the wet and avalanche prone coast, Canada writes:
    I live close to city hall in Vancouver. There are SOLD signs everywhere and properties go fast, so I trust what I see over what I read.

    The total market that grabs headlines is an aggregation of individual markets between which there is lots of variation.

    Things may take a break out here, but with rates low and 2010, I don't see a major pullback coming.
  27. Yvonne Wackernagel from Woodville, Canada writes: I hope the banks drown in their bloodbath because if they were not willing to lend at zero percent down and forty year amortization periods, the silling young people would not have fallen into this trap. They fell for it completely without thinking of the extra costs of 'owning' (?) a home such as taxes, house insurance, heating, yard maintenance, etc. Unfortunately, their parents were of the same unintelligent minds so could not advise them and -if they did - the young people just didn't bother to take their advice. Experience is a great teacher and they might turn out to be better at their financial planning in the future.
  28. a salajan from TO, Canada writes: I, too, expect the price of BMW Z series to drop; I've been meaning for years to buy one. I cannot afford it. So the price must drop. Hard! Like 60%
  29. Chris Kempan from Winnipeg, Canada writes: I'm going to sit back and watch with a bag of popcorn and a coke as it as all comes tumbling down. Over anxious buyers are the reason for all of this. Nobody stepped back and looked at the property they were about to bid on and said, "this place isn't worth it". And it wasn't, and it won't be later. There can only be so much disparity between income and housing before something gives. People get caught up in the, "how much is this monthly", rather that considering the sum of money being spent. Interest rates won't always be so low. Unfornately people will lose their homes in the coming years, but not I, it's paid for baby!!
  30. m m from Canada writes: a salajan from TO, Canada writes: "I, too, expect the price of BMW Z series to drop; I've been meaning for years to buy one. I cannot afford it. So the price must drop. Hard! Like 60%"

    Hmmm…. I don’t think so. German craftsmanship, style, quality…
    It can move you from A to B sooo much better then a silly Toyota Camry.

    But if you really want it you can afford it. Just take a 25 years car loan; monthly payments will be pretty low. And your friendly banker is always ready to help.
  31. Leaky Condos from Canada writes: As soon as you can rent a BMW Z series for less than it costs to buy one I'd expect prices to drop as well. Until that time you can comfort yourself with the fact that they don't make the ideal accommodation anyways.
  32. George Duncan from Canada writes: Some of the commentary is very interesting indeed. Darcy Meyer above, you should look around and if you are capable of understanding what you see it will become apparent to you that Saskatchewan, for example, is at least 10 years behind Alberta and it is doubtful this gap will close any time soon.
  33. Brad Bender from Calgary, Canada writes: I'd like to make a toast to all the Realtors who'll soon be looking for work in the next year or so. Here's to your misery. May you find yourself unemployed and burdened with a lifetime of debt thanks to the houses you failed to flip. May the banks repo your fancy cars and home, and put you on the street. May you be laughed at by your peers, because really, you're just one-step up from a used-car salesman but with a HUGE commission. You earned none of it.

    Not that Realtors are solely responsible for the Real Estate Bubble, but clearly they're among the greatest of its profiteers. I wish them great suffering.
  34. Wir sind das Volk from Canada writes: Toronto real estate prices have only risen at about their historical average over the last 10 years (about 7% or roughly doubling from ~$200K to ~$400K - obviously some neighbourhoods have done better). This is unsustainable? Also Toronto prices are a joke by the standards of any other G-7 business capital. I agree that we're in for a lull but anyone waiting for a 1/3 drop a la south Florida currently may be waiting a while - prices there triple in 5 years.
  35. m m from Canada writes: .
    Leaky Condos from Canada writes: "As soon as you can rent a BMW Z series for less than it costs to buy one I'd expect prices to drop as well."

    Hey, but what about Pride of Ownership!

    Don’t you see the difference between driving your OWN BMW Z and driving a leased bmw z? C’mon, it’s only twice as much. Besides, they won’t make this year model anymore.
  36. bob london from Canada writes: April is best month to sell.
  37. Don Portz from Trochu AB, Canada writes: Yvonne - It would be better if you checked out your facts before making some comments. You hope that the Banks take a bath because of their lending at 0% down and 40 yr Amortization. In fact if Banks lend over 75% of value to a property than they must have mortgage insurance (Now virtually only CMHC) which will shield them from losses in event of foreclosure and unable to sell from mortgage value. This is part of the BANK ACT. Please refer to it before commenting.
  38. Don Portz from Trochu AB, Canada writes: Yvonne - furthermore why blame the Banks for someonelses stupidity? True maybe the Banks should be the social concience of the people and only end people monies when they fully understand the ramnifications of their actions and see that they get counselling before entering into any contract. This sound responible??
  39. bill k from Canada writes: ``Mike Constantine from Canada writes:In Toronto, the market has "cooled" and sales have fallen for 4 straight months and inventory is piling up. Reminds me of what happened in Toronto in the early 90's before the Real Estate Bubble Bust`

    It`s starting to look very similar to the early 90`s housing crash. There is no doubt home prices in Toronto are set to fall and fall hard. I waited to after the crash last time in the early 90 to buy. Look at Toronto now with homes sitting on the markets and desperate maxed out home owners looking for buyers with no luck. Agents are starting to worry that soon they will be selling you your next used car. Home buyers got suckered in by RE agents and will soon learn about being upside down on a mortgage. POP....what was that?
  40. Darcy Meyer from Canada writes: George Duncan.....fair enough, Sask may be behind Alberta in many respects, but it is moving in the right direction. Also sask is better off currently then many other regions in this country, even if it does lag Alberta(I'm not entirely sure what you mean by behind specifically). There is an opportunity for sask to achieve similar prosperity while adopting some of the lessons learned from next door, like maintaining and improving investments in infrastructure as well as debt reduction. I'm not saying sask is the greatest place on earth, but it is pretty good and some of your previous post was just off base in terms of your characterization.
  41. Joseph Whistle from Canada writes: The doom and gloom boys are just jealous of the people that own an expensive house.
    With a strong market, low interest rates, and people needed a place to live, all this activity is just hysteria. Lemmings, drones.
  42. M M from SK, Canada writes: People in Saskatchewan are beginning to get greedy - a number of houses in my area of Regina have been on the market for 8 weeks - which is a looonggg time in a 'hot' market. Why? they are overpriced and buyers know it. Remember pigs get fat, but hogs get slaughtered!
  43. Darcy Meyer from Canada writes: M M.....agreed. I think we are close to a lull, and may see a slight pullback shortly. Buyers aren't going to go to the next level yet and more inventory is coming into play which is stabilizing things.
  44. Adil Burney from Canada writes: Not a great article by the G&M as they didn't mention that the average price only rose by 3.2% YoY. That was down from 11% for 2007, 6% for Feb and 4% for April.

    I think that it is possible that we go negative later this year.

    http://canadahousingcrash.blogspot.com/
  45. Mike Constantine from Canada writes: Joseph Whistle,

    You must be overleveraged. You sound like you are praying the market dosen't tank.

    0 down, 40 year mortgage? Heheheheheh...say your prayers sucker, you are going to need it.
  46. Adil Burney from Canada writes: There is no subprime and yet we are down to 3% YoY from 11% just a few months ago...

    Overprime problem?

    http://canadahousingcrash.blogspot.com/2008/04/canadas-overprime-problem.html
  47. Neil FitzGerald from Toronto, writes: Regarding the market in Toronto, I disagree with those who are predicting (and in some disappointing cases, cheering for) a US style pop. The Toronto market is very different to the US sub-markets that actually blew up - and yes, there are many sub-markets in the US that have not blown up at all. First major difference is shoddy lending practices and irresponsible financial instruments in the US - sub-prime mortgages, interest only mortgages, etc. These do not exist in our more conservative environment (thankfully). Secondly, the US markets hardest hit (Miami, Vegas, Phoenix) were those that had a great number of speculators. Both of these items were responsible for the hyper-growth in those markets the and now are accelerating the slide.

    Lastly, as many know, real-estate is very local so while some areas of the GTA may be slowing?, the core city areas continue to boom with properties flying off the market in days, not even weeks and new luxury construction is taking place all around the city core.
  48. Brenda MacFarland from Calgary, Canada writes: Dear Readers, Re:"You must be overleveraged. You sound like you are praying the market dosen't tank.

    0 down, 40 year mortgage? Heheheheheh...say your prayers sucker, you are going to need it. "

    What is wrong with a 40 year Mortgage? Does anybody care about affordablitiy and getting people into their own homes? I appraise houses that are 100 years old and are still standing. In Europe, the kids live at home forever because they cannot afford to launch. People take better care of their own homes than renters. Why doom people to the rental market? What is the risk of a longer time to pay back a loan at lower payments as long as all else is reasonable? You people are heartless. Where you think the threshold for mortgage lending should be? A longer amortization period alone in itself is not bad lending practice.
  49. John G from Ottawa, Canada writes: "The doom and gloom boys are just jealous of the people that own an expensive house."

    It's the people who "own" a soon to be cheaper house and an expensive mortgage who are going to be jealous of people like me who own cash.
  50. Dave C from Canada writes: We truly are the stupid generation. We have people taking the very absurd 40 year mortgages which basically makes them a slave to their house for their entire life. What is going to happen to those people when....not IF....WHEN interest rates go higher????? As all of their friends start retiring, these people will be dragging their butts out of bed at the age of 70 to go to work to continue paying their mortgages. Their will be no Canada Pension by the time they hit 65 or VERY little, they will need to rely on their own retirement savings of which they will have nothing because most of their money will have gone to pay their 40 year mortgage.
  51. Joe Smith from Toronto, Canada writes: I would love to own a house, but I figure that covering the mortgage, taxes, and other fees on the unit I rent right now probably costs my landlord 30% more than what he charges me for rent (and I don't live in a dump!) There'll have to be a massive increase in the value of the unit for him to come out ahead. In the meantime, I'm happy to have my landlord subsidize me, and I plan on investing the money I save by renting. When housing prices here in Toronto come back into line with actual family incomes, I should have enough for a healthy down-payment.
  52. Brenda MacFarland from Calgary, Canada writes: Dear Dave C, "There will be no Canada Pension by the time they hit 65 or VERY little, they will need to rely on their own retirement savings of which they will have nothing because most of their money will have gone to pay their 40 year mortgage."
    So I guess you think They should rent for 40 years and save for retirement..... Suits me ... I am a landlord and can always jack the rents up !! Check out the real stats on senior housing from Stats Canada and see how lifelong renters do with regard to choices in old age.
  53. J Rochester from Canada writes: Brenda MacFarland -- it's traditionally cost much less than 70% of household income to buy a place to live.

    I think you'll have more money to invest for retirement if you're spending 20% of your income on rent than if you're spending 70% of your income on a mortgage.
  54. David Smith from Canada writes: Same here Joe I rent a loft for 1200 a month, if I had to buy this place @ current market value 280k, even with 70k down, I will be paying over $2000 per month and about $1500 of that is interest/tax/maint. go figure
  55. Brenda MacFarland from Calgary, Canada writes: Dear Daves and Joes, Are You living by chance in "Rent Controlled Toronto"? How is the Economy doing out there? Dave, your numbers do not add up. Unless your loft is owned by Government, something will have to give. I could not sleep at night worrying about if my landlord is going to go broke. There is no free lunch.
  56. Jasper the Black Lab from Vancouver, Canada writes: David Smith, go back to math class. A $210,000 mortgage with standard 25 year amortization would cost you about $1220 per month and your property taxes would probably be about $1000 per year. Plus, after 25 years you would own outright an asset not likely to be worth less than a half-million even with very low inflation. Tax-free growth by the way.

    And Jim Smith, I doubt that is your landlord panhandling on the corner.
  57. Brenda MacFarland from Calgary, Canada writes: Right on Jasper the Black Lab from Vancover! Now if you put zero down, invested the 70K and used a 40 year amortization where would you be? I can't believe that taxes are that low and unfortunately there will be condo fees ( what about leaky roofs?) if they own the same class housing as they are renting. But as an inflation hedge real estate is not bad. Does anybody watching the US doller think there is no inflation.
  58. J Rochester from Canada writes: Where can you buy a 210,000 condo? Not anywhere I've been.

    That's my point -- not that owning is bad, but that buying in a bubble and paying 500,000 to 700,000 for a 500 sq ft apartment is folly.

    Particularly if you're expecting price appreciation to bail you out.

    I'll wait, thanks.

    And no, Barb, I'm not in TO any more.
  59. g c from Canada writes: FYI - Jasper the Black Lab from Vancouver and Brenda MacFarland from Calgary, David Smith's figures are quite accurate for Toronto.

    $280K condo - $70K down (25%) = $210K mortgage with 25 year amortization/5 year term at 7% fixed rate = $1470 mortgage/month.

    $280K condo in toronto at current market value of $450/sq ft = 600 sq ft.
    maintenance fees = $0.50/sq ft/mo x 600 sq ft = $300 /month.

    prop. tax = 1.25% CMV/annum @ $280K = $300 /month.
  60. g c from Canada writes: It is currently much more economical to rent in Toronto than it is to buy and pay a mortgage, property taxes, maintenance fees/utilities, etc.

    No one is saying people should never buy a home.
    It boils down to affordability and currently prices are over-inflated.

    Those who advocate and/or bought a home with a 40 year/ $0 down mortgage will be "upside down" on their mortgage in 5 years come renewal if house prices go down.

    Where will they get the money to make up the difference between the mortgage and the market value since chances are they were over-extended in the first place, otherwise, one would not choose 40 year / $0 down.
  61. David Smith from Toronto, Canada writes: Brenda: if that is what you want to believe so be it, however anyone can easily verify my prices with a quick search on craigslist and mls.ca, there are morons that list 1br for some hefty prices, which makes sense since they need to cover their expenses, but as a renter I don't care, they are tons of listings to choose from. You will see many 1br listing for upwards of 1400 to over 2200, but I highly doubt those are getting rented. Trying to rent thru a realtor is a sign of desperation, maybe it it was the same agent that told them to buy it for an investment. The last house I owned, was purchased in 1997(183k), rented it until 2006, then sold it for 298k, and I am waiting again for my next purchase. I loves renting, I am in a new condo every 2-3 yrs. for a steal. But Brenda chk craigslist and see how cheap anyone can get brand new condo/lofts to rent for in Toronto. If you are not looking for parking or locker, even cheaper. Currently when I look across the street at the next condo complex I see some units that look abandoned and lights are never on, maybe those people are going "green".
  62. David Smith from Canada writes: QC is on the ball, I was actually going with a 20yr amort. I prefer to throw a few extra 100s a mth, and get the mortgage over with earlier, why give the banks more $$ in interest than I have to. For all the people that are oblivios to what one can rent condos for in Toronto, go to craigslist filter by city of TO, and price range 1000-1200, 1br. These are the listing people like me look at. Then do another filter and change the price range to 1200-3000, then sit back and see the desperation listing of hundreds of listing that any sane renter will not even touch. When I was looking for my new place a few months ago I called a few of the high priced ones just to see who these people are. In the same complex I am in now, there were a few 1br listed for over $2000, when I told them that there was similar units going for 1200 with parking, you could see them sweating, they doubted, I pulled out my Iphone and pulled up the listings. It was a dose of reality for these fly by night wanna be landlords. Just to give you an idea, I know someone that bought a condo that has not even finish building as yet, and when I told said person it will cost close to or over $2000 to carry condo with a 220k mort, they were doubting me, mind you that person is a 1st time buyer.
  63. Joe Smith from Canada writes: I never said that my landlord has been left panhandling, but I think it's very safe to say that he will not come out ahead unless he timed the purchase very, very well.

    In any case, Toronto is definitely a renter's market these days. Craigslist and Viewit.ca are flooded with apartments for rent (especially condo units) and you tend to see the same ones listed week after week. I just did a search on Viewit.ca for the area around Yonge and Eglinton in mid-town T.O. and got 188 rental listings. A similar search on Craigslist also turned up about 190 listings.
  64. Jasper the Black Lab from Vancouver, Canada writes: Yes, I admit fixed rates are a bit higher than I had realized, so a $210,000 mortgage would cost over $1400 per month.

    But anyone paying annual $3600 maintenance fees and $3600 property tax on a shoebox cond is being seriously ripped off.
  65. Hella Schwarzkopf from Canada writes: In conclusion: anyone willing to predict the average maximum fall in Toronto non-commercial real estate?????
  66. David Smith from Canada writes: I personnally don't really care where really this market is going, I do not really intend to retire in Canada, where before I even wake up in the morning I have already spent $100 on lodging, car, phone, hispeed etc in today's money. I am on a retirement plan with property sitting in a country where the sun is shining all year, and cost of living is significantly lower than here. Also there are still some places in Toronto that I can buy for a reasonable price and build my own house, if this market does not go down. I can easily pick up and go to the US snap up a cheap nice house and work there if I choose to do so. This rat race is for people that cannot think out of the box, and want to live the jones lifestyle. The amount of money that people pay over listing price and engage in bidding wars is for idiots. You want a dream house, custom build it from scratch. You want to live in a "nice" area for you kids? It isnt a specific neighbourhood, it's your mentality, teachings and moral transfer that shape the way your kids will end up. Alot of people that move into well to do neighbourhoods, are the same people who's kids have drug dependency and other weird social issues. Take a drive to the "not so nice" hoods where the drug dealers are, and you will see the fancy german cars etc that pull up with "nice" kids making a purchase. Read the articles about those nice kids that OD in some dingy holes in the city. Get real people.
  67. A K from Toronto, Canada writes: I love how in discussions like these it is always assumed that the people that are posting about the market turning in favour of buyers must be bitter renters who can't afford a house. Just because my life finally fell into place post university at a time when we were in the middle of the housing boom and I wasn't stupid enough to take on a 40 year mortgage and become house poor b/c my agent told me to get in now or I never would, doesn't make me bitter. It makes me relieved that I don't have to try and fall asleep at night worrying about my property value going down and having a mortgage for more than my house is truly worth. I also don't feel sorry for those people who got in with zero down and bought into an overinflated market. It's part of the generation of entitlement. I must have my 2500 sq foot, 4 bedroom, granite countertop house/loft now b/c I am worth it. We didn't feel the need to buy a house to get on the bandwagon or for entertaining or impressing our friends. We're saving more money now for a house downpayment renting our condo than my friends are paying off the interest on their 40 year 'rentals'. Someone forgot to tell them about property taxes, heating bills and maintenance fees. I can't wait till the market levels out. We are in dire need of a reality check when the average family in Toronto is spending almost all of their income on their mortgages.
  68. Brenda MacFarland from Calgary, Canada writes: Hi David Smith, Make sure your place in the sun has access to food, clean water and energy or are you planning on holing up behind security walls when the food riots and gasoline wars break out? I chose Vancouver Island because it has it all . So Condo's are over priced in Toronto? I am not a fan of condo apartments myself, they are the first to go down in a bad market and the last to recover in a good market. That said, Condos may be the only sustainable housing in a world of high oil prices. We should look to Europe where gasoline prices have been high for a long time. People live in small apartments and quess what, use 40 year mortgages in order to afford to get into them. The amortization works fine because housing is built to last.
  69. David Smith from Toronto, Canada writes: Brenda you really need to get out more, there are places to retire other than CDN, that is not cime ridden, or people starving for food.

    I can care less about what the price of gas will be, I do not need to drive now or when I retire. Mind you I currently drive because I can, and currently burn $50 in fuel just driving around the city because I can. My office is a 10mins walk, grocery 5mins walk and if it rains or a little too cold, I drive to work and spring for the $10 parking that day, it has been most days this year with the Toronto weather.

    I can do this stuff freely because I choose to live well within my means.

    When my wife and I spend less than 10% of our combinded salaries on lodging, there is a hell of alot of money left to throw around, and I dare say just waste on frills.
  70. Shaffer Thomas from VANCOUVER, Canada writes: Look at below Real Estate Highlight in the Globe and Mail SHAUGHNESSY THOMASINA BARNES From Friday's Globe and Mail May 9, 2008 at 12:39 PM EDT 5612 MAPLE ST. ASKING PRICE: $3,198,000 SELLING PRICE: $3,148,000 PREVIOUS SELLING PRICE: $2,375,000 (2006); $990,000 (2005); $452,000 (1988) TAXES: N/A DAYS ON MARKET: 10 LISTING AGENT: Sue Johnson and Sarah Thompson, Dexter Realty This 5,262 sq. ft. home was completely restored in 2006. This house price rose almost double in 7 years ( from 1998 to 2005). Again in a year, it was inflated upto 145% hike . Unbelievable ! and lastly it boomed another 50%. House price in West side of Vancouver inflat more than any thing else in this country. Income rise less than 5% per year, GDP growth at average 2% ... Only Speculators play around in the market and boom the house prices. Just go to www.mls.ca , see how house listings are flooding the market . In west side of Vancover, the most inflatted house price in Canada, the number of listings flood the market with more than 50% increase from a month ago. There are tons of houses pouring into the market and rush to sell at any discount price possible ! Boom start to burst
  71. bill k from Canada writes: ``Mike Constantine from Canada writes:In Toronto, the market has "cooled" and sales have fallen for 4 straight months and inventory is piling up. Reminds me of what happened in Toronto in the early 90's before the Real Estate Bubble Bust` It`s starting to look very similar to the early 90`s housing crash. There is no doubt home prices in Toronto are set to fall and fall hard. I waited to after the crash last time in the early 90 to buy. Look at Toronto now with homes sitting on the markets and desperate maxed out home owners looking for buyers with no luck. Agents are starting to worry that soon they will be selling you your next used car. Home buyers got suckered in by RE agents and will soon learn about being upside down on a mortgage. POP....what was that?
  72. David Smith from Toronto, Canada writes: There is no subprime in Canada? but we have something better.
    -------------------------------------------------------
    The police investigation began with an anonymous tip and, by the end, had tallied $12.5 million worth of pot seizures, 3,288 marijuana plants and a 2005 Toyota Highlander, as well as the arrests of 31 people on more than 200 charges.

    "For the first time, York Regional Police has targeted commercial businesses and individuals responsible for supplying materials required for marijuana grow operations," La Barge said.

    "We are committed to investigating every level of this illegal trade in our goal to eradicate marijuana grow operations in our region."

    Last week, Hang Thi Nguyen, 31, of Newmarket was charged with fraud and uttering forged documents in the mortgaging of a home used to grow marijuana.

    http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/427333
  73. R C from Vancouver, Canada writes: John G wrote:

    "It's the people who "own" a soon to be cheaper house and an expensive mortgage who are going to be jealous of people like me who own cash."

    Your cash is being devalued every day by hyper-inflation. Checked the price of gas lately? Once Canada gets through this over-supply problem (2 years?) hard assets such as real estate will once again start their upward climb. Hold on fellow owners. That house is your key to wealth.
  74. Joseph Whistle from Canada writes: R C: so it's better to buy later, but within 2 years then?

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