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What to do about cyber bullies? Get real, for a start

SUSAN KRASHINSKY

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 10:22 PM EDT 15/05/08

Toronto expert says most parents don't know what kids do online. She's pushing to make online safety part of the school curriculum ...Read the full article

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  1. E M from Canada writes: Having been teaching computer science in Toronto schools for a couple of decades (and using computers, at a very high technical level since 1970...:-)), I understand the problem very, very well. And the problem is one of ignorance...by parents and school administrators. Having suggested a multitude of solutions, they are ignored so that the bullies known as school principals, superintendents, etc. can flout their power and pronounce from on high how their are 'protecting the children' by spending millions on questionable censorship-type software from Microsoft, etc. Education is indeed the answer, but the students already know about the problem...it is the ignorance of parents and school administrators, easy prey for marketers and scam artists, that are the REAL problem. Some parents and principals, on power trips, put 'cyberbullies' to shame, in many cases. A little more listening to genuine experts (on both children and technology), would go a long, long way to helping to solve the problems.
  2. Jim Flom from BC's Lower Mainland, Canada writes: With a headline like, "What to do about cyber bullies?..." and as a parent, I would have liked to see some actual suggestions.
  3. Gerry Whalen from Brighton, Canada writes: E M from Canada's advice almost sounds like the advice of someone who has actually listened to some informed teen sources. The one question which you never hear asked is "who pays for this "cyberbullying". The lack of parental connection with their children has proliferated the unsupervised proliferation of cyber communication. "Call me if you need me" does not replace sitting down at dinner or family activities and talking! Parents who feel that paying their children for their lack of parenting, by paying for everything a child wants, doesn't do children any favours. It's becoming normal for parents to pay for "someone else" to raise the children 'they wanted'. The best prevention of bullying is for parents to actually spend time talking to their children. Don't leave teaching moral responsibility to someone else. I have yet to see a paid 'care giver', teacher or principle who has all the convictions I want instilled in my children. The old adage of the minister's daughter says more about the minister than it does the daughter!
  4. John Deriso from Edmonton, Canada writes: I know we are talking about children here, but are children so stupid as to not know that a computer has an off switch? That you can actually go outside and talk to and be with your friends? That you can use telephones (to speak, not to text message)? Cyber bullying is only effective as long as the "victim" refuses to just turn the computer off. And where are the parents in all of this? Why aren't they the ones turning the computer off?
  5. Mark H from Indy, United States writes: Schools are not parents. How about we let the teachers teach things like science and lit, and leave the life lessons to the parents?
  6. black and white from canmore, Canada writes: .....I have a brilliant solution!!!...SUPERVISE your own kids in your own home and have RULES that are enforced... then you will be know what they do online.
  7. Lee Turner from Canada writes: You don't even have to turn the computer off, just block the sender.

    Has anyone else noticed the similiarities between "Cyber bullying" mentality and violent mob mentality? The anonymity in particular, allowing individual actors to do things in a face-less group that they would never do were they alone, strikes me as being very similiar. I wonder if we can apply what we know about mob mentality to a face-less internet. I don't think the answer is to be more restrictive with techology, information or communication ability. That is the easy band aid solution, to just monitor everyone's activity, it doesn't solve anything.
  8. anonymouse Z from Canada writes: John: They are still kids. The onewe houl be concerned about are the shy ones who desperatey need to appear normal and are vulnerable because of their need. Parents can "teach" them to not need peer acceptance or to ignore cyber bullies, but the kids still cannot make a good decision.

    Mark: Kids spend a significant amount of time at school. I have taught and I have seen how well I can influence students. As a teacher, at least some of the students have respect for my ideas and come to me for advice on what you call "life's lessons". Schools do have a role here. The main concern is that if a child or his parents complain about a bully, the school often ignores the complaint. That's the main problem. Besides, the main lesson to not bully someone doesn't often come from the parents. It would be nice if all the kids had ideal parents, but the reality is different.
  9. Dwide Schrude from Canada writes: Cue the hilarious G&M posts of mock cyber bullying!

    If you don't think they're funny, it's because you're a #$%@@!
  10. David Brown from Victoria, Canada writes: Another anti-bullying crusade which starts with a dubious study with exaggerated numbers and ends with a prescription for another teaching program (no doubt saleable) for our over-burdened school curriculum. What would be "taught" in an anti-cyber-bullying program? That the victim should "ignore" the comments? - which is what the old kid's saying (which the anti-bullying crusaders hate with a passion) "sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me" says better than anything else. That peole shouldn't be mean to each other? - good luck on that one. Or where the off switch on the computer is located? Most students beyond the age of about 7 find these types of programs silly and make fun of them when they are on their own. If kids are going to be taught values, it is best taught through our literature which invariably provide far better "lessons" about human relations and all their nuances than some cartoonish feel good about yourself program. Unfortunately when school programs prove ineffective, then the next call is for state (and corporate) control of the internet and the criminalization of some internet activity. There are some people who have a real problem with "uncontrolled" things which is why they are particularly bothered by teenagers.
  11. S W from Canada, Canada writes: Mark H from the US. Ah! Here in Canada the teachers sure squeal 'in loco parentis' at strike time. Suddenly they are accountable and tell of how they monitor all things, hence their days chock full of stress. LOL! This kind of an issue begs the question "Which way is it?" To me, in a dire situation, like ANY kind of bullying, a teacher, as any adult out in public when a crisis occurs, should intervene. But this is a personal belief. Bullying IS terrorism. Why have we gone soft on the Zero Tolerance policies that were put in motion not that long ago? If the parents, kids and schools know who the cultprits are, turn them in. Expell them. Simple. It goes on because the parents don't want any more in their day to deal with, like keeping a closer eye on their kid in case of retaliation. But, this is where it all began.... lack of supervision. On both sides! Why are the parents of the bullied kid afraid to call the mongrel or his parents???? How would this kind of bulling be dealt with in a real business? There are coping skills! IF school still charades as training for the real world, then MORE real world consequences need to be dealt out and made stick. Otherwise the kids aren't being trained for very much of any current value. Maybe the schools have just too many computers AND free time for this kind of nonesense. It is going on BECAUSE it is being let go on!!!
  12. Zoltan Karpathy from Baycrest Hill Forest Ridge, Canada writes: I think the 'get real' advice would make sense, if they really meant 'real'.

    Get real -- as in recognize that cyberspace itself is not reality. If you're being 'bullied' in cyberspace, un-the fook-plug for God's sake and go ride your bike.
  13. Art Vandelai from Burlington, Canada writes: I don't get this whole issue of cyber-bullying. What kinds of things are we talking about here...kids spreading rumours about other kids, or posting nasty messages to other kids' web pages (eg Facebook/Myspace)?

    One would think these things would be easy for the target to ignore or delete in an on-line space, whereas face to face bullying cannot be ignored so easily.

    Indirect bullying (e.g. A sends messages to B or posts to a general forum which hurts C) would be much harder to deal with, although that kind of stuff happens all the time, even in the adult world. Distinguishing between legitimate critical free speech and 'bullying' in that way would be a difficult task indeed.
  14. Sue W from Canada writes: Another inititiative that will be taught in our schools instead of at home.

    Perhaps it can be taught alongside yet another inititiave proposed by the Ontario Human Rights Commission experts that anti-racist and anti-discrimination programs be implemented and taught in our schools. In our public, private and black-focused schools.

    It can start as early as 3-4 years old when the new daycare spaces are opened up by McGuinty.

    Lets not even ask what the parents are doing.
  15. Grammar Check from Toronto, Canada writes: Aren't we missing a bit of the point here? Bullying use to require getting into someone's face - it was a very personal attack and certain types of individual could bully (let's not get into a dicussion about WHY kids bully). But cellphones and the internet allow kids that normally would not bully perform such acts because the human element is eliminated. It's pretty easy to send a hateful text message because you don't have to be personally involved - there is no human element. Could that be the cause of this rise in bullying.

    On a side note: How can parents afford $50/month cell phone bills for all these kids?
  16. SusieQ 321 from NoWhereVille, Canada writes: Why is it a schools responsibility to stop things that happen off campus and off school grounds... we had bullies before the net was commonly used and they were never dumb enough to pick on kids on school property fights occurred within view of the school... kids weren't expelled it was off school property none of the schools business. I am of two minds on cyber bullying.. it is and isn't the schools problem.
    Now there were fewer bullies when I was a kid cause bullying was done face to face and not through a text or email or posting on a page.
    Yes kids can turn off a computer or cell phone but maybe you remember peer pressure, the desire to fit in or at least to fly under the radar and not stand out enough to be picked on. I think back and I feel for some of those kids who had things they couldn't help acne or parents who couldn't afford the in clothes.
    It isn't as simple to solve as saying walk away half the adults I know couldn't go through what some of these kids go through, what they hear or read, this is tough and it affects kids and regardless if you have dinner together every night and talk to your kids... most kids won't tell their parents that they are being bullied or by whom they dont want to be a rat, just the way it works
  17. There's Enough Misery Without Adding More from Baycrest Hill Forest Ridge, Canada writes: SusieQ 321 from NoWhereVille, Canada writes: Why is it a schools responsibility to stop things that happen off campus and off school grounds...

    ===========================

    It's not. The whole movement is mission creep and over-reaching by the education establishment.
  18. Kay Ay from Canada writes: Ban cell phone's from school (I have no plans to EVER buy one for myself let alone my children) and don't let your kids have their own e-mail address.
    I don't think their friends will be brave enough to send bulling e-mails to the parents address.

    And really, talk to your kids so they feel comfortable telling you stuff.

    I would like to know what happened to the "neighborhood mother' posing as a 16 year old boy.
  19. Opinion in Toronto from Toronto, Canada writes: Kids have to be made aware that bullying in any form is a crime and will be punished. Schools and parents have to stand up to these acts and involve the police and the criminal justice system. It's not just education: it's education plus enforcement. Only then can we "get real."
  20. Megan Ratcliffe from Toronto, Canada writes: As a child, starting from about the age of 5 until I was in about grade 11 and learned to stop giving a damn, I was bullied pretty much constantly. ANd I can tell you that it is very isolating, because if I told my parents they would call the other students parents which, inevitably, made things worse. And even when I did tell my parents I sometimes heard the saying about sticks and stones. On the flip side of that, in terms of cyber bullying it should not be the schools responsibility to monitor what is going on. if the cyber bullying gets so obscene as to be illegal, for sure the school should be informed but so should the police. In terms of advice for the students who are victims of cyber bullying, I know from experience that replying never works so just ignore what's going on, and if it gets worse, tell a parent or teacher. They are equipped to help you, but remember for the most part bullies are bullies because they themselves are suffering from low self esteem and have to make someone else feel bad to make themselves feel better. Alternatively, parents and teachers should tell those students who are victims to make one statement to the bully, that they are not going to put up with it, and block that person from their buddy list. Unfortunately bullying has been going on since time immemorial, we are never going to cure it, so we need to provide students with tools on how to best deal with it. And the internet has just provided another forum for the same crap that kids deal with anyway. Parents need to monitor what their kids are doing, schools need to make sure that it is not occuring with the use of school equipment and the victims need to be empowered to stand up for themselves.
  21. Emma Hawthorne from Canada writes: What about those Obama sock puppets. Harsh, name-calling, made-up facts, and anger, all rolled into one?
  22. Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian Wild, Wild West..., Canada writes: Joe Canada from Kingston, Canada writes: "Great article in a far left-wing newspaper. I read 1000's of posts from the likes of many liberals here doing nothing but bullying those with different political views.

    Read and learn lefties."

    Pot, meet kettle.
  23. Jason Fournier from Acton, Canada writes: Clearly most of the self-righteous, "the solution is so easy" posts here are from people who don't have kids, or are part of the "father knows best" generation and hopelessly out of touch with kids. Cyberbullying is a new social paradigm in that it is now commonplace for individuals to intimidate and slander others completely anonymously. Anonymous intimidation is not new, but it has never been this easy or widespread. At no time in human history has this been more prevalent and available to the masses. The number of anonymous nasty messages from "adults" (I use that term loosely) has grown as fast if not faster than from youths. Witness the number of nasty remarks on G&M and even the overall number of posts which are anonymous. There are few posts that need to be anonymous for security reasons, and yet people are still afraid to be responsible for what they say! What does that tell you about our society in general? With kids, this is a real problem. Kids are naturally insecure and are compelled to read what is being said about them. Telling them to "shut it off -- go ride your bike" or supervising closer (shoulder surfing would be the only way to do this, which is like listening in on a phone call) will not work -- it will only push their need to fit-in further underground. They will find a way to read what is being said about them. Allowing kids to talk to you without an inquisition is a start. Knowing your kids and detecting those hard-to-read changes in their disposition are vital -- but even then it is not enough. I completely agree with education in the school where kids can talk openly without dumb ol' mom and dad hanging around. And yes, I am a dumb ol' dad. If anyone has a civil comment to follow up my post, say something you would be comfortable putting your name to -- and do so. As adults, we lead by example . . .
  24. Steve Not an Alberta Redneck from Calgary, Canada writes: This should get a few flames!

    First define bullying, both cyber and the old fashioned type, to include all such activities that occur in school, on the way home and on the computer/telephone/mail. Since kids have to go to school, they need to be safe in all their associated activities.

    Then, for every school in the country, identify the worst case of each type of bullying and select the worst offender. Publically cane each reprobate before the school assembly and send them off to a boot camp with no privilidges (TV/computer etc.) for 3 months. If problems persist (and they likely won't) set a few more examples. The problem with all previous attempts to reduce bullying is these scum have no fear of any sanctions. Give them that fear. Suspensions are just a "paid holiday".

    Finally, do not allow cell phones in school. Its too tempting to use them to harass others, take compromising pictures, call in bomb threats or just waste time and they serve no value, whatsoever. Neurotic parents will cry foul.

    This is a problem we must control if our education system is to avoid a complete meltdown.
  25. K Kal from Canada writes: all kids will be the bully and be the one receiving it at one point in their lives

    there's a hierarchy that develops in school, some kids are on top, others are not for whatever reasons (sorry not everyone is created equal, goes for the kiddies too)

    but seriously though, all this nonsense about "fighting bullying, preventing bullying blah blah" is hilarious, there is only one way to stop bullying, the kid being bullied needs to defend themselves. parents should teach children to defend themselves against unjustness in all forms, this will help them later in life too; will prevent people from walking all over them when they are older.

    bullies will always be around, but they arent stupid, they arent gunna bother someone they know is gunna knock their teeth out.
  26. K Kal from Canada writes: Megan Ratcliffe from Toronto, Canada writes: As a child, starting from about the age of 5 until I was in about grade 11 and learned to stop giving a damn, I was bullied pretty much constantly. ANd I can tell you that it is very isolating, because if I told my parents they would call the other students parents which, inevitably, made things worse. And even when I did tell my parents I sometimes heard the saying about sticks and stones.

    my mom told me to use the talking it out method, didnt work after 3 times
    so my dad told me to give the bully a nice shove into some lockers, so thats what i did, worked the first time, never heard from that fine fellow again

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