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Canadian Victoria Cross unveiled

OMAR EL AKKAD

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 1:33 AM EDT 18/05/08

Canadian medal bears many similarities to its Commonwealth counterpart but is also steeped in uniquely Canadian symbolism ...Read the full article

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  1. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Uniquely Canadian symbolism?

    What?

    There's a puck on it?
  2. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Apparently, the uniquely Canadian symbolism is a Lion.

    I saw a Lion once.

    In BC Place stadium.
  3. Freddie Fender from Canada writes: Michael Sharp from Victoria:

    Have some respect and pretend to act like a mature adult.
  4. Lyn Alg from Canada writes: Is the Canadian Victoria Cross 'Made in China' ?
  5. Upper Canadian born and raised in Western Canada from St Albert, Canada writes: Why not a beaver instead of a lion?
  6. Leal Bois from Canada writes: I don't think it's possible to make a beaver look good on a military medal... But why complicate everything; a simple maple leaf would have looked sober and distinctly Canadian but I guess that a lion standing over a crown decorated with fleur-de-lis (that aren't even a native plant of Canada) with some laurels are all symbols we can relate to.
  7. Diane Schweik from EDMONTON, Canada writes: .

    if we really want to break with tradition then why keep calling it the Victoria Cross ? I suggest the Trudeau Cross after the man who not only gave us the Charter of Criminal Rights but someone who will always be remembered for his heroic service in WW2.
  8. Mac the Knife from Canada writes: For a minute there, I thought Diane Schweik was serious. Then I read the last line. Charter of Criminal Rights. I love it. Very fitting, giving today's news about our Supreme Court making life even easier for young offenders.
  9. Jeremy K from vancouver bc, Canada writes: mac the spork
    wtf kind of comprehension skills do you have?all the supreme court did today was maintain the status quo and prevent a law change... how is this making things even easier? it seems to me that all it did was make things exactly the same way they were yesterday
  10. Craig Cooper from Toronto, writes: Well done.

    For once, a tradition stands in this country.
  11. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: My my, they can't even redesign a military medal without Dianne Schweik opening her big yap and making puerile partisan comments.
  12. Diane Schweik from EDMONTON, Canada writes: .

    It pleases me no end that Paul Thomson has become such a devoted follower of my comments.Do you scroll through every article looking for my name ? If you forked out some money you would have even more opportunity as you could then access the Insider articles.Too much of a cheapskate to do that no doubt.
  13. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: Actually Diane, I was an insider until my wife attempted to renew it using an expired credit card. Now, every time I try to re-register something always screws up, not sure what the problem is. I don't scroll through articles looking for your name, I just read the ones I find interesting, like everybody else. Who knows though, maybe I'll save a year's worth of fees and blow it all on some belly dancer from Singapore. That would certainly be more fun than arguing with you, in any event.
  14. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    I thought for sure there'd be a maple leaf on it.

    Hello.
  15. Diane Schweik from EDMONTON, Canada writes: .

    PT

    Your CC explanation is a joke.

    If it's no fun arguing then why do you bother ?
  16. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: Why do I bother arguing with you Diane? It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it. If you'd read my post more carefully, you'd have noticed that I simply said that frolicking with a belly dancer from Singapore would be MORE fun than arguing with you, as opposed to stating that arguing with you, or any of the rest of my favorite enemies on these boards, is no fun at all.
  17. Diane Schweik from EDMONTON, Canada writes: .

    PT

    You sound like a martyr to the cause.Perhaps you deserve a Trudeau Cross for toiling upwards in the night at your self-appointed task while others sleep.On the other hand,if you frolick with a belly dancer from Singapore you might end up with the VD and scar.
  18. Paul FINNAMORE from Winnipeg, Canada writes: Finally a top ranking CANADIAN medal for our sons and daughters who put there lives before others. Lets hope the ceremony to issue it never comes to be.
  19. Rum Bunny from Canada writes: You've got my vote Diane.

    And what is so Canadian about the maple leaf other than the fact it is Lieberal red and grows in a few small areas in Ontario and Quebec?
  20. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: And you'd like that wouldn't you? I'd still take Trudeau over the manipulative little putz we've got now.
  21. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Contrasting Noble Shakespearan ascendant England of Elizabeth R, Victoria R was onset of English moral turpitude. Troops pushing opium on Chinese, rebellion with Indians giving English the boot 90 years later, Victorian Morals, hypocrisy, greed the brew that led later to WWI and WWII.

    Canada Victorian Cross is entirely British, with no trace of French, other European, African, and Asian majority that is Canada today. Keeping the charade of Empire long gone is a vain attempt by deslusional Harperites to look forward to the past that is not coming back ever.

    In my 40 years in Canada the purveyors of the Empire is the only community to have lost ground. In largely non-British Toronto find me one panhandler with a French accent, or with yellow, black, or brown tinge. To our British friends – come help build a new Canada. If you sulk on your old ways there is no way my children are going to give blood for a metal that represents decline, not growth.

    Simply Canada Pro Valore.
  22. Freddie Fender from Canada writes: Many posters do not know either Canadian history or Canada. Some of their "comments" are downright insulting towards the memories of those who have been awarded the VC in the past.

    Here are Quebec's sons who have received the VC:

    Lt Col C.M. Douglas
    Lt Gen Sir Richard Turner
    Lt Paul Brillant
    Cpl Joseph Kaeble
    Capt Francis Scrimger
    Capt Paul Triquet

    Question of the day:

    Who was William Hall, VC?
    Who was Thomas Dinesen, VC?
    Who was Robert Hanna, VC?
    Who was Filip Konowal, VC?
    Who was Raphael Zengel, VC?
  23. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Freddie Fender: Greetings

    Let us study the files of the above case by case.

    All those who died for not imperialist greed but a noble purpose be given the top Canadian Medal anew. The rest can fade into oblivion where they belong.

    Cheers
  24. Freddie Fender from Canada writes: Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes: "All those who died for not imperialist greed but a noble purpose be given the top Canadian Medal anew. The rest can fade into oblivion where they belong."

    Disgusting comment - who are you to insult the memories of the men?
  25. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Freddie Fender: Hi

    " .... Disgusting comment - who are you to insult the memories of the men? .."

    Sir, you remind me of some Canadian friends of Judahist tendency who defend Israel more fervently than the Israelis themselves. The cause is attributed to some inadequacy.

    I suggest you take a trip to Britain to see what a person on the street, who today identifies more with Diana than the Royalty, thinks of the Victoria Cross.

    But closer to home. Canadians of Native, French, other European, African, and Asian descents are building a new Canada in their own image. If those of British stock will try to monopolize without having the ability, we shall have many Canadas not one.

    Your intransigent attitude above all alienates and insults the French speaking Canadians who largely think of the VC holders with French names as ‘vendus”.

    Time are a changing. The Empire is a dead horse. What use flogging it?

    Cheers
  26. james smogee from Canada writes: wonderful news! canada has its very own "victoria cross." couldn't use a canadian name or a canadian medal.
    the harper mob will probably be handing them out by the bushel to garner favour with the truly dim.
    the original victoria cross was truly a great honour and we should never forget those heroes who fought so hard and paid the highest price for our freedom. the axis powers were our greatest threat and i believe it demeans those who marched into that terrible war to be compared to the obscenity going on today to ensure the survival of american interests.
  27. Ed Long from white Rock, Canada writes: Nice concept .... retrograde design.

    Can we come up with an aggressive native symbol other than the British lion. A bear, Ojibway warrior club or spear, Bobby Clarke's hockey stick.

    Notice how, if you remove the British Crown symbolism, you have a da'n fine imitation of the Iron Cross. British aristocracy and National Socialism could have worked so well together. Hess tried.
  28. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Ed Long: Greetings

    “ ... if you remove the British Crown symbolism, you have a da'n fine imitation of the Iron Cross. British aristocracy and National Socialism could have worked so well together ...”

    Sitting in India Gandhi could not figure out which side was less evil, so he decided to support neither. For his crime spent WWII time in jail.

    Gandhi also called the British rule “Evil”, long before the copycats Reagan in “Evil Empire” and Dubya in “Axis of Evil”.

    Cheers
  29. Ed Long from white Rock, Canada writes: Syed, the commonality of both sides was they both wanted to inhibit the expansion of the USSR and Germany wanted to reclaim territory lost due to the Treaty of Versailles and reek vengeance for its horrific reparations requirements.

    Kind of like, Palestinians and the Arab world wishing for an ME pre-Balfour declaration and Treaty of Versailles.

    We definitely need our own medals without these historical references but honoring the Canadians who volunteered for service to "protect" a foreign country and perform at the highest level.
  30. Anne Peterson from Canada writes: Two of my brothers served in the Second World War. One was truly homesick all the time. They joined up when they were seventeen. When they came home they both said they hoped they had contributed to a world where there would be no more wars. That from 1945 on differences would be settled through negotiation. They are both gone now. I missed spending time with them when I was a child and they missed a better youth. They have been truly truly let down.

    So our government is paying think tanks made up of old men who have never been in real wars to brain wash us into liking their policies. And they are using my money to do it. The PM or MPs have never been in real wars either. They seem to think that sending young men to die enhances their importance. Maybe they should all just join up if they feel so stongly. Most of them are young enough. What I find the most unsettling is that they don't see how wrong what they are doing is.

    Young people who are brave in war should get medals, but why do I think the unveiling at this time is so political. What an amoral thing to politicize war and death.
  31. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Ed Long: Hi

    " .... We definitely need our own medals without these historical references .."

    I concur wholeheartedly. The repatriation of the Cross will eventually happen, but under a future Liberal regime.

    House of Windsor is largely Germanic. Chamberlain was on Hess’s side, but it has always intrigued me what went wrong. What were the behind the scene manipulations that thwarted the alliance.

    Cheers
  32. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: Excellent comment, Anne Peterson.
  33. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Ed Long:

    " .... Kind of like, Palestinians and the Arab world wishing for an ME pre-Balfour declaration and Treaty of Versailles ..."

    I assure you no Arab wants that. The hateful Israelis are far preferable to the dreaded Turks. At least the Tribe of Judah is a distant cousin, in Arab eyes the Turks are a "low" breed. Before it was foreign rule, now the fight is within the family.

    Hey, if trapped Judah repented, Joseph forgave him. So, once the Zionist steam runs out and they see the light, the Ismaelites will forgive them too and there will be peace. Blood is thicker than water.

    Cheers
  34. Ed Long from white Rock, Canada writes: Why not a cast replica of the Canada shoulder patch worn by our soldiers since WWI cast in Canadian gold with a single Canadian diamond.

    Simple, elegant and unique in showing we really do value our people.
  35. Freddie Fender from Canada writes: Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada:

    You have a very limited and narrow of view of Canada, in fact, a very uninformed view of this country.

    My European ancestors arrived in North America in 1650, and my Aboriginal ancestors, well, they have been here for a few years.

    Answer my question, who were

    Who was William Hall, VC?
    Who was Thomas Dinesen, VC?
    Who was Robert Hanna, VC?
    Who was Filip Konowal, VC?
    Who was Raphael Zengel, VC?

    The answer may educate you regarding your biased and bigoted attitude.
  36. Freddie Fender from Canada writes: Ed Long from white Rock, Canada writes: "Notice how, if you remove the British Crown symbolism, you have a da'n fine imitation of the Iron Cross. British aristocracy and National Socialism could have worked so well together. Hess tried."

    Long - you are a disgrace. I hope that your parents are not alive to see what an absolute fool that their child has become. Your "comments" are an insult to the memory of those who have been awarded the Victoria Cross.
  37. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Freddie Fender: Greetings

    " .... You have a very limited and narrow of view of Canada, in fact, a very uninformed view of this country .."

    Sir, I use history to learn a lesson from, not a crutch.

    What matters most is today and tomorrow. In a static world history is an asset, in changing times history can be a drag.

    Let me, a new Canadian, ask you a blunt question. When are you the English and the French going to end up your 1000 year old puerile rivalry so that we the rest can build this country here in peace?

    Canada has more resources than the US, but in every sphere lags behind. True, much has to do with climate, but some also with its soul. We cannot change geography, but certainly replace our soul with something more noble. And frankly, I find nothing noble in the name Victoria. Elizabeth, on the other hand, represents positive English values well portrayed by Shakespeare.

    Cheers
  38. Freddie Fender from Canada writes: Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada:

    Your attempt at raising irrelevant questions in order not to deal with what you have been asked is a well-known propagandist tactic.

    So, the outstanding question remains, who were the following:

    William Hall, VC?
    Thomas Dinesen, VC?
    Robert Hanna, VC?
    Filip Konowal, VC?
    Raphael Zengel, VC?

    P.S. leave your Middle Eastern politics out of this discussion on the Canadian VC, they are not relevant.
  39. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Freddie Fender: Hi

    You are not by chance the Harper appointee to the Committee preparing questions for the prospective immigrants to Canada?
  40. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: I'm with you on this one Fender; I've always respected the memory of the veterans, Victoria Cross winners or not. Now, I still think WW1 was the stupidest war in history, but who would you nominate as the greatest VC of WW2?
  41. Ed Long from white Rock, Canada writes: Freddie Fender .... Ever read any biographies of the Duke or Windsor, or his brother George, the Duke of Kent?

    Receiving a Victoria Cross, or any medal, in service for your country is one issue. The intrigues of the aristocracy in a class defined society is another.

    And that is why any reference to the British VC should be erased from Canadian medals.

    Your attitude has nothing to do with patriotism but is a post colonial hangover of nanny subserviance.

    We are Canadian .... just like the beer ad.
  42. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Ed Long: Hi

    Well you forgot to remind me then let me remind you of the advice of that wise poster:

    "If you discuss with a fool he will first bring you down to his level, and then beat you with his experience"

    The Empire gone, our friends of British stock should move on. We the "outsiders" see the insistence of everything British in Canada only as a device to infuriate the French.

    This policy is suicidal. Soon, in an increasingly non-British Canada the diehards have-nots will be relegated to faraway hamlets in Alberta, out of the mainstream, becoming cannon fodder for guns owned by the New Money. Already many young white females are turning to Islam because they can not find real men among their own.

    Every dog has a day. We had ours, you had yours. But time to move on. A new Canada has to be built. Let us all bury our pasts and build our future. Else the best and the brightest will keep on heading for for the south to escape from petty nationalisms of the past.
  43. Ed Long from white Rock, Canada writes: The purpose of my suggestion of the historical Canada shoulder patch in precious Canadian metal and stone is because we are not a class based society sending our youngest and best over the top in Flanders or to the beaches of Dieppe in a cannon fodder strategic exercise mandated by the aristocracy.

    Nor are we the blue helmeted appeasers attempting to avoid confrontations because of our immaturity and insecurity.

    We are an independent country, with roots in government and law of the U.K. and France, and with people from every country on the globe. When we select a military mission, we do so because it reflects our values and we send our people with the best training and equipment available and recognize their efforts with purely Canadian medals and citations.

    I gotta go watch an hockey game.
  44. Diane Schweik from EDMONTON, Canada writes: .

    Greetings Syed and your pal PT,maybe PMT would be more appropriate.

    Why the obsession with Diana ? The UK public have almost forgotten about her.She lives on in the Enquirer and other US trash tabloids.

    You have posted in the past that she was the biggest upset to the monarchy since Victoria-"have a nice weekend".In reality the biggest upset was the Edward VIII/Duke of Windsor abdication crisis of 1936.

    Your frequent smutty postings reveal a grade 6 schoolboy obsession with sex, which is something I guess would be expected from an inhibited male Muslim in his 60s who probably still thinks he is God or Allah's gift to women.I bet you are a closet Playboy "reader".

    Now go ahead and report me to the monitor,which is what you usually do when someone makes a remark that you dislike.Those of us that believe in free speech will let you carry on boasting of how Islam is going to take us over while you tell us of how inferior we all are to you and your ilk.

    BTW When you say Juhadist why don't you say Jews ? Or are you afraid to come out with what you really mean ?
  45. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Diane Schweik: Greetings

    Long time no see. You again inching for a fight? Hey I thought on this particular VC issue we were on the same side.

    " .. Why the obsession with Diana ? The UK public have almost forgotten about her ..."

    Really? That is not my info.

    " ... smutty postings ... grade 6 schoolboy obsession with sex ... inhibited male Muslim .. a closet Playboy "reader" ..."

    Musilm inhibited about sex???? If I wanted to read the rather staid girlie magazine popular in the 60's (shows your age) I would do it openly. But Muslims do not believe in vicarious pleasure or hidden one either. If a Muslims wants more sex, well another wife. Have his cake and eat it too. No scandals like JFK or Bill Clinton or Spitzer.

    " ... Now go ahead and report me to the monitor .."

    Thanks for bringing a bit of excitement to the discussion.

    " ... Juhadist .... Jews ? ..."

    Sure you know the difference.

    Cheers
  46. Freddie Fender from Canada writes: Ed Long from white Rock, Canada writes: "Your attitude has nothing to do with patriotism but is a post colonial hangover of nanny subserviance."

    Get rid of the faux chip-on-the-shoulder act. You just don't know Canadian history. And you probably have never been in a Canadian military uniform overseas - the CANADA flash still brings instant recognition and friendly respect and thankfulness from many Europeans who do remember. Go visit Vimy or Dieppe and leave the chip at home.

    who were the following:

    William Hall, VC?
    Thomas Dinesen, VC?
    Robert Hanna, VC?
    Filip Konowal, VC?
    Raphael Zengel, VC?

    Finding out about these Canadian heros puts a damper on your uninformed comments and those of Syed Abbas.

    I am glad that we have established a Canadian honours and awards system that remembers and respect our past.

    BTW, Happy Victoria Day!

  47. Ed Long from white Rock, Canada writes: Freddie don't get your Union Jack shorts in a knot.

    My brother is currently representing our family at a ceremony that occurred May 05 in the Netherlands thanking Canadians including my uncle who was shot on the last day before going home.

    I just finished reading Baptism of Fire, Ypres, because my grandfather survived it and Paschendale. I am currently reading Double Standards, The Rudolf Hess Coverup.

    My grandfathers, WWI, and uncles, WWII, were very proud of their medals and Canada shoulder patch however there was no quarter given to the "b"st"ard British" generals who, they emotionally stated, used Canadians as cannon fodder in WWI and sacrificed them at Dieppe in WWII. My grandfather often said he lost friends because of some Brit quiff.

    It is accepted knowledge that the Duke of Windsor was a National Socialist sympathizer, and their remains debate as to whether Churchill kept the war going to weaken the Russians. What caused the Cold War, Freddie, and how long did it go on?

    My Canada does not contain reference to the UK.

    This is the May Long Week-end. Victoria is a city across the water from me. A Queen is a fairy who lives in the West End.

    Wear your sunscreen.
  48. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Ed Long: Greetings

    Pity you had to expose your family history to buttress your argument.

    Your love for this country oozes out from every word you write in these posts. One can feel that you only want the best for Canada.

    As far as the target of your post: "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel"

    I hoped you enjoyed the game. Cheers.
  49. Freddie Fender from Canada writes: Ed Long from white Rock, Canada writes: "Freddie don't get your Union Jack shorts in a knot."

    Sorry, but I proudly wear Maple Leaf underwear.

    Also, I proudly wear CANADA flashes on my CF uniform.

    Regarding your comments regarding revisionist history on the Cold War, you had better start educating yourself. I would also suggest that you study the actions of the Canadian government and the Canadian General Staff when it comes to Hong Kong and Dieppe - there is some good home-grown culpability there.

    Regarding the Duke of Windsor - yes, I am aware of his political sentiment during the 1930s, typical of many in the British upper class (except for Sir Winston and a few others). Check out Rex King's views on the German Chancellor as well. Also, after his abdication, the Duke of Windsor was no longer accepted in the Royal Family. Indeed, the Queen Mother blamed the Duke for the premature death at the age of 52 of her husband, George VI, after his having to assuming the throne.

    Did I mention that some of my ancestors were United Empire Loyalists? (and some were French voyageurs and others were Metis and Indians)

    In my part of Canada, we call it Victoria Day, so once again, Happy Victoria Day!
  50. David B from Saint John, Canada writes: I applaud the Armed Forces for continuing the tradition and linking it to the orginal intent of the Victoria Cross. Let us not forget the most important thing about The Canadian Victoria Cross - it allows us as Canadians to give something to the brave souls who put their life on the line for our country during extenuating circumstances.

    When I read anything about Victoria Cross recipients who have recieved "her", I become very humbled knowing that a stranger - a Fellow Canadian or a member of the Commonwealth, performed an heroic act that contributed to events that now allow all of us to live in this country!

    To all Past Recipients of the Victoria Cross and to all Future Recipients of the Victoria Cross and The Canadian Victoria Cross - I say "THANK-YOU!"
  51. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: You certainly seem to be in a b*tchy mood this evening Diane. Why the personal slurs against Syed? His world view is...unique, to say the least. And of course, guys look at Playboy, they don't read it.
  52. Diane Schweik from EDMONTON, Canada writes: .

    Ed Long

    How on earth could Churchill prolong the war to weaken the Russians ? It was a hard slog for the Allies after D-Day and the Americans were calling all the shots,being the main suppliers of men and materiel.The Germans fought magnificently in spite of being outnumbered and outgunned,with very little air support.Hitler was the one who refused to surrender on both fronts.

    The British(and French) generals in WWI used ALL soldiers as cannon fodder.The junior officers who survived the carnage became the generals of WW2 and had a much less cavalier approach to the use of their troops.

    Syed

    Thank you,or maybe someone,else for removing my comment of about 17.30 EDT.

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