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Man plays dead as grizzly chews

ANNA MEHLER PAPERNY

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 11:17 PM EDT 16/05/08

‘I don't know why I didn't scream because I was in so much pain,' Brent Case says as he describes bear gnawing on his head ...Read the full article

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  1. Terry in YVR from Vancouver, Canada writes: Speechless. Amazing story and I'm glad he's doing okay now.
  2. S.L. S from Small Town, Canada writes: Truely amazing. Both my wife and I are sitting here saying we don't know if we could hold of our screams. Guess you never know til your there but WOW, what an amazing story. Glad you lived to tell us this Sir.
  3. Dr Demento from Canada writes: As one who practices active safety at work as part of a comprehensive occupational health and safety program, I have to wonder why Mr. Case was working alone (unarmed?) in a remote grizzly bear area. It doesn't sound like he had a satellite phone or radio either. He should have had someone with him who was armed for such an occurance. In any case, given the circumstances, he did the right thing and is very lucky the bear didn't have healthier teeth.
  4. james cyr from Balmertown Ontario, Canada writes: Dr. Demento: regarding your post of 10:21 pm: good points indeed!
  5. p m from Canada writes: I have to wonder why Mr. Case was working alone (unarmed?) in a remote grizzly bear area. ...........

    rilght on....used to do surveying in the yukon.....once we found that the line we were surveying was patrolled by a kodiak...we armed ourselves...

    pity you can't protect yourself from predators these days....

    2 billion for the gun registry and we get the RCMP to look after themselves with tasers and unarmed people in jail cells
  6. Bobby Dang from Canada writes: I hoping you the best in your recovery Mr. Case. You're about as tough as Chuck Norris, and that's as tough as it gets.
  7. E MacM from Canada writes: amazing story, so glad he's here to tell about it. as to those wondering why he wasn't armed or had someone armed with him. obviously he didn't realize he needed to be but il'm sure if he goes to that spot again he will be.
    I think their missing the point, this guy survived and that is a miracle in itself.
  8. Fred Field from Nanaimo, Canada writes: Thank the liberals. At one time a surveyor could get a permit to pack a .44 mag. in grizzly country without too much trouble. Packing a rifle with the other gear one has to carry is quite cumbersome and we have a party making a honest living who should have that right.
  9. bob gervitz from United States writes: Just a reminder to non-westerners reading this story. Mr. Case's strategy of playing dead can be effective when attacked by a Grizzly. However, that is generally NOT the strategy to use when attacked by a Black Bear (which is what Central and Eastern Canadians are most likely to encounter, though the chances are incredibly small of doing so).

    In recent years, Black Bear attacks on humans have almost always been because they are hungry and see you as food. Playing dead will only make it easier to kill and eat you.

    In most cases, if you cannot avoid being attacked in the first place, it is best to fight for your life, aiming for the nose and eyes of the bear if you can. Since they are smaller than Grizzlies there is a reasonable chance you can drive them off with a concerted, aggressive defense.

    Just be aware of the real differences in strategy for dealing with a Grizzly versus a Black. Perhaps an expert can elaborate on this.
  10. Boyd of the North from North of 60o, Canada writes: Not sure the gun would have helped in this case... from the sounds of it the bear was right on him and when you are working in the bush you don't work with a pistol in one hand.

    And once the bear is on you it may not be feasible to try to get the gun from wherever you stored it.

    That being said, one of the reasons there are training and buddy systems is to try to minimize this kind of thing. Please note, I am not casting any dispersions against this very lucky and strong man.

    The general rule with grizzlies is to play dead and he followed that. Definitely had his act together. (Note: in some circumstances fighting back is what to do with a grizzly - usually if it is a young one as they don't always understand 'playing dead'.)

    I hope that the day a grizz comes after me I react as well as he did.
  11. Peter Swain from Canada writes: With all respect to Mr. Case and this horrific event...I wish articles would either stick to the human story (awful attack etc...) or get some experts involved if they want to start swinging 'facts' around about bears.

    The science in unambiguous about why grizzly attacks occur- and it is never, ever because bears get a 'taste' for human blood. That is utter nonsense.

    Why aren't we asking why a supposedly 400kg bear DIDN'T kill him? A bear half that size could pop a skull like a melon, yet they typically don't.

    Where did this 'park warden' come from in Bella Coola? There aren't any National parks there. And why would they kill a bear that purposefully DID NOT kill a person? One that was probably responding to a perceived threat in a very bear-like manner, and likely would not have munched someone else?

    Come on 'Globe, stop misinforming people and smarten up your reporting!

    But that all said, I wish a speedy recovery to Mr. Case and wouldn't wish that attack on anyone.
  12. Boyd of the North from North of 60o, Canada writes: Re: bob gervitz from United States... very true... and for those who think climbing a tree is the right answer, with a black bear that won't help.

    Re: Peter Swain from Canada... I think you meant to say that the science is 'ambiguous'. And that is true. However, you miss a couple of things.

    1. Grizzlies often bury their prey (including black bears that they kill) for eating later.

    2. Grizzlies generally only attack humans if it is a sow and her cubs are nearby and in those cases they do not bury the object of their attack as it is not 'food'.

    3. Young grizzlies will on occasion gp after humans for food as they have not learned that we 'ain't that good eatin'' and that is why if it is a youngster it is usually better to fight... the problem here is that how many of us can recognize a youngster when it is in full charge?

    Accordingly, the fact that this bear buried Mr. Case after strongly indicates that this bear views Mr. Case as edible.

    There are a lot of things left out of this story including the health of the bear. It had bad teeth. So it may not have been in the best health and therefore was more opportunistic in its choice of prey.

    Shooting a bear that attacks a human in controversial. But as we were not given the complete picture, we will have to trust that the Conservation Officer or Warden knew what s/he was doing. None of the COs I work with like killing bears, even if they have attacked humans. It is done because if the bear goes after a person once, the likelihood of another attack is high.

    I will not wage in on whether that is the right response or not. Am just glad that Mr. Case did the right thing and that he survived.

    And one last confusing note for folks: blacks bears come in all sorts of colours - light brown, reddish, dark brown, etc. So if you are in bear country, talk to the local COs or park wardens before venturing too far afield.

    Ciao
  13. Boyd of the North from North of 60o, Canada writes: One last point, Mr. Swain. You ask why didn't the bear kill him... the point I would suggest of playing dead is that bears don't check pulses and they don't always ensure a clean kill. If the prey is incapacitated enough to be buried, the bear is probably working on the basis that it is either a) dead, or b) close enough to not matter.

    So it is not a matter of the bear 'not purposefully' killing a human... it thought it had.

    Ciao
  14. Fred Field from Nanaimo, Canada writes: I believe bears did get a taste for humans when natives years ago did not bury their dead, one also pulled a young lady out of her sleeping bag years back in Glacier Park and that one at Banff a few years back did a number on a few people besides killing a person.as the ranger said, it covered him over to 'mellow' him up a little. Good chance it might have had a kill not too far away when it left him. As much as they do not like human contact, when one attacks someone, it will probably do it again.
  15. Douglas Freestone from Canada writes: Dr Demento from Canada - Very good points. If Mr. Case was working for a surveying company it is in serious need of an EH&S audit.

    Peter Swain from Canada - Though Boyd of the North from North of 60o offers some good information, there is also a small tidbit in the story that may also explain this attack. It mentions that the bear had 'bad teeth.' Living in bear country myself I have heard numerous stories about when bears get old and lose their teeth, or they become infected, or broken. Sometimes these bears go looking for garbage, pets, and I have even heard of bears eating cr@p. A surveyor with his back turned would also make easy prey.
  16. Dave C from Canada writes: Peter Swain from Canada writes: ............Where did this 'park warden' come from in Bella Coola? There aren't any National parks there. And why would they kill a bear that purposefully DID NOT kill a person? One that was probably responding to a perceived threat in a very bear-like manner, and likely would not have munched someone else?

    Peter you sound like Timothy Treadwell. A bear that shows no fear and attacks a human has to be put down, period. If they do it once they will do it again.
  17. Douglas Freestone from Canada writes: bob gervitz from United States - I am not an expert, but I can add that grizzlies are naturally more aggressive and tend to attack (a) when surprised, (b) defending a kill, (c) defending young. A black bear, on the other hand, is more timid, and will often 'tree' her cubs and take off running (collecting the cubs when it is safe). The rule of thumb is that if a black bear is staging a meaningful attack against you, you might as well fight because it is most likely a predatory strike. There have been several of these in southern Alberta in recent years.

    I am not 100% sure of the accuracy of this information, but I have also been told that part of the reason that grizzlies are naturally more aggressive is that their natural environment (and where they are best suited) is the prairie, tundra, rolling hills, or light forest. As these environments do not provide the sort of coverage that heavy forest or mountainous terrain offers the grizzly has become bigger, and is more aggressive. It maybe that it is humans that have pushed the grizzly into the mountains.
  18. L Harder from Canada writes: The man is lucky one way or another. Usually a predatory attack should be fought. In this case, playing dead ended in the right result.

    From a safety standpoint, a bigger risk to this guy is injuring himself so he can't walk out, or getting lost. If he liked working alone and was willing to take the risk then its up to him.

    The way society is going we all are going to be in bubbles in our homes hoping nothing bad is going to happen, only to die of a heart attack.
  19. Robin Hannah from Canada writes: 'Peter Swain from Canada writes: With all respect to Mr. Case and this horrific event...I wish articles would either stick to the human story ... or get some experts involved if they want to start swinging 'facts' around about bears. The science i[s] unambiguous about why grizzly attacks occur- and it is never, ever because bears get a 'taste' for human blood. That is utter nonsense.'

    Peter Swain, I've heard other bear experts say the same thing. That bears are, in fact, shy creatures, and terrified of humans. But we're chewing up their habitats, with our ski-resorts and our clear-cuts and our parking lots. If I were a grizzly, I might've 'gnawed' on this human's head until he was dead. And it wouldn't've made me evil. Or I might've just gnawed on his head until he got the message.
  20. Rick Cheung from Canada writes: Life is like gambling, I'm glad that he won ... my best wishes.
  21. REV eighteenseventeen from Canada writes: People that work in backwoods areas and ranchers should be able to carry handguns. Stupid Canadian gun laws.
  22. martha stewart from Canada writes: Robin - Each bear is a unique individual. Its behaviour at any given moment depends on what it has LEARNED, the stage of its life, its health, and the circumstances. In years when they are stressed by food shortages for example, they tend to act differently from years when they are fat and happy. This bear apparently had bad teeth.

    You suggestion that bears are 'terrified' of people only applies to times and places where they learn reasons to be. That usually means they are hunted. The obvious example to disprove your assumption are the bears in national parks that generally just ignore people. Same for other unhunted populations.

    Those ski hill runs are actually preferred spring habitat for bears because they produce more early food - greens - than the adjacent forests. Same with clearcuts (berries in fall) though bears tend to use the edges of large clearcuts because they stay reasonably close to cover.

    Your parking lots are another story. But they're in cities.
  23. martha stewart from Canada writes: Peter Swain writes: 'Where did this 'park warden' come from in Bella Coola? There aren't any National parks there.'

    No but Tweedsmuir Provincial Park is near there and they have park wardens too.

    Dave C's post explains the rest.
  24. Matt C from Canada writes: I just saw pictures of this man's injuries on the news. He is incredibly lucky! He was chatting casually with the news crew, no bandages, just stitches. He looked like he could go to work the next day without any problems.

    Everyone I know that has worked in grizzly territory always has a buddy, bear spray, and usually a shot gun. He really shouldn't have been alone...
  25. Robin Hannah from Canada writes: Why, Martha? How? Are you a bear expert now, on top of everything else?

    I'll remain in the expert hands of the documentarians and scientists who have studied bears. Who, yes, know them as fearful and shy. God help them, in the coming storm.
  26. martha stewart from Canada writes: Robin - Think.
  27. Robin Hannah from Canada writes: You're right. Powerful, fearful, and shy. I forgot the powerful part.
  28. E. Biggs from Canada writes: I have recently seen stats that over a recent period (cannot remember time frame) there have been 23 reported fatal bear attacks.

    2 polar bear
    9 grizz
    12 black

    It would be interesting to know if somebody like Mr. Case would be able to get a hand gun, like a sig 44 mag.

  29. Rollo Tomasi from Belgium writes: It's awfully early to be seeing grizzly bears anywhere but alpine country--global warming?
  30. martha stewart from Canada writes: Robin - You forgot to use the phrase 'terrified of humans' again. That was what I specifically commented on.

    But about the 'fearful.' They are only fearful of what they learn to fear. They learn.

    Cautious might be a better word but even that does not apply to some bears in some situations. Some learn to be bold and aggressive.

    We live with black bears on our land from spring to fall and grizzlies in the fall. We get to know the black bears as individuals. They are not 'terrified of humans' unless someone is shooting at them, or has recently shot at them. We are always very careful not to let them learn any bad habits (garbage) because we know where that leads. To dead bears.

    Did you know that the Ursids (bears) are most closely related to Canids (dogs)? Do you notice that every dog is different? Why?

    About the use of ski runs and clearcuts - any bear biologist or scientific paper on them will tell you this.
  31. martha stewart from Canada writes: Rollo Tomasi from Belgium writes: 'It's awfully early to be seeing grizzly bears anywhere but alpine country--global warming?'

    No. This happened in a Pacific Coast river valley, hardly above sea level. They only den for a relatively short period there.

    It would be early if it was the 'alpine' ... still tons of snow up there.
  32. Shane Thompson from who cares, Canada writes: Rent Grizzly Man (2005) great doc about a guy like Peter Swayne who thinks he knows everything about Grizzlies.
  33. Stencil malcolm from Canada writes: Well I have been working and playing in the woods for many years and have yet to be eaten by a bear despite numerous encounters. Bears do kill and eat people on rare occasions. Every day there are thousands of people working or recreating in the backcountry. How often do you hear of someone being attacked? Being bitten, mauled and/or killed by a large predator is something that understandably evokes a primal fear in us. Yet every day people are killed or maimed in traffic accidents but these deaths and injuries are viewed as commonplace.
    It is MUCH more dangerous to travel by car than it is to work in bear country. So go forth and work and recreate in the great outdoors. And if you have the misfortune to have a bad bear encounter --- it is just bad luck.
  34. There's a War between those who say there's a War and those who say there isn't from Canada writes: after reading the conflicting advice in these posts it seems that this guy survived through sheer dumb luck - yes he may have had a strategy but perhaps fighting back might have worked as well
  35. J L from Toronto, Canada writes: Bear-free nature reserves for people to enjoy - that would be great. Let the bears live in the vast majority of the wild but create a few islands free of predatory animals for humans to enjoy...
  36. Bill Hopkins from London, Canada writes: An interesting sidebar: In the National Post today there is a report of an Alberta rancher who is facing court and a possible $500,000 fine for shooting and killing a grizzley that was charging his 13-year-old son. So much for being armed for self-protection in the bush.

    Back in my early twenties, I spent a lot of time working in the mountains of northern Idaho and in the bush of northern Minnesota and the Quetico region of Ontario. During that time, I had numerous encounters with black bears, without incident. My first encounter was in Idaho when I came upon my first one. I think the bear was as startled as I was and we both ran -- in opposite directions!
  37. Earl Anthony from Sudbury, Canada writes: If a bear is acting territorial (ie grunting) it is best to back off slowly. This would be true for a mother bear. Playing dead may help with the mother bear because you appear to be less of a threat to the cub(s).

    However, if a bear is silent and tracking you it is hunting you for food. Playing dead simply means it's feeding time at the zoo. You have to be aggressive back at the bear to put doubt in its mindset.

    In this case the victim was lucky the bear wasn't hungry but merely saving him for afters.
  38. The Wight from Canada writes: I ran into a black bear when I was riding my mountain bike as a teenager. I cartwheeled the bike down the hill at the bear (not on purpose, but because I bailed out when I saw her) and I watched her stomp my bike flat and rip the tires all to hell for about a half an hour before I started the long walk back.

    One thing I won't forget ... the smell.
  39. Mark H from Canada writes: That man needs to be carrying a firearm in that line of work, in those wild areas.
  40. bob saunders from Belleville, ON, Canada writes: Dr Demento from Canada writes: As one who practices active safety at work as part of a comprehensive occupational health and safety program, I have to wonder why Mr. Case was working alone (unarmed?) in a remote grizzly bear area. It doesn't sound like he had a satellite phone or radio either. He should have had someone with him who was armed for such an occurance. In any case, given the circumstances, he did the right thing and is very lucky the bear didn't have healthier teeth. -------------------- 25 Kms from Town in the Bella Coola Valley is not isolated for the most parts as people live in the area of Furvale, Hagensborg...etc. I am suprised he was working by himself- as I worked as a compassman doing forestry and logging surveys...etc in Bella Coola. We did carry 44 magnums and machetes...etc, but that was in the 70's.
  41. Chris Willard from calgary, Canada writes: How about the five W's of journalism? Sloppily structured articles like this that are a real turnoff.
  42. David Gibson from Canada writes: Anyone is such territory should carry a suitable gun and an industrial sized can of bear spray. The spray works, BTW. ... Someone was killed in northern Ontario a few years ago. The couple were camping, and the only weapon on board was a Swiss Army knife. The bear won. ... Each generation is one generation further away from the farm and nature. Most people should stay in town, because they just don't understand things out there in the bush.
  43. D M from Canada writes: Dave C says:

    'A bear that shows no fear and attacks a human has to be put down, period.'

    I completely disagree. In a situation where you come across a mother bear and her cubs and she attacks, for example, and you live to tell the tale., do you have her 'put down' for having the nerve to attack you? In her mind, you were a threat to her cubs, she ran on instinct. Every situation is different. Predatory attacks are one thing, but not every bear who defends itself needs to be killed, every encounter is different, and to insinuate that all animals who dare touch a human should be destroyed is incredibly immoral if you don't consider the circumstances of an attack.

    I am very glad to see this man survived. Best wishes to him.
  44. west slope from Greater Vancouver, Canada writes: Mr. Case survived--good.

    The description of the attack strikes me as a territorial. The crunching is apparently designed to snap the vertebrae and immobilize the 'threat'. Personally, I would not play submissive. But then I'm 6' 5' and have faced down knife-and gun-toting human beings on numerous occasions.

    Arming work crews is a bad, dumb idea. If armed protection is deemed necessary, then a qualified individual (or two) should be tasked to standing guard during the entire shift.

    Can a mortal individual effectively concentrate on the task at hand and respond in sufficient time to stop a full blown charge by an adult grizzly? I would bet that the odds are very low.
  45. Joe Calgarian from Canada writes: Glad that the guy is ok, but pissed off the bear was shot. We go into THEIR territory and they are the ones that end up dead as a result. One story comes to mind as being typical of the stupidity of mankind. There was a family in Banff or Jasper years and years ago, the family saw a bear and stopped their car, they got a jar of honey and put it on their kids hands because they thought it would be cute for the bear to lick it off. Of course the bear ripped off little Johnnie's arm. And of course the bear was tracked down and shot. They should have shot the stupid parents instead!!! Wherever man goes man destroys.
  46. Dave C from Canada writes: Here is a chilling account of an encounter with a killer bear. The majority of times bears will run away and want nothing to do with you, but there are the rare occasions when they become the predator and you are their intended prey. The only thing that will stop them when they are very aggressive like this is possibly bear spray or better yet, a gun. You hate to have to shoot a bear but it is a much easier choice when it is your life or his.

    http://travel.latimes.com/articles/la-os-bearchase2aug02
  47. Dr Demento from Canada writes: martha stewart from Canada writes: 'They are only fearful of what they learn to fear.'

    Wild animals, including bears, are instinctively fearful of humans. It sounds like this bear was old and unable to hunt its normal prey. Hunger overcame its instinctive fear.

    I guess you don't understand the concept of instinct . . .
  48. michael maser from gibsons, Canada writes: Good healing to Brent Case. And as one who worked for a bunch of years in BC and the Yukon as a prospector, almost always immersed in grizzly country and very rarely armed with anything other than a rock hammer, I can recommend making noise as the most effective way to alert bears to your presence, which almost always sends them in the other direction. Unprovoked grizzly and black bear attacks are incredibly rare in this country, and brains, bells and bear spray are all you need to survive. When you consider the hundreds of thousands of bear-human encounters each year, evidence is clear that we face much more of a threat from malicious dogs roaming our neighbourhoods or our neighbour's yards. - michael maser, Gibsons (where we've got lotsa bears roaming around and I was a victim of an unprovoked dog bite a couple of years ago!)
  49. been there from Toronto, Canada writes: Sorry for the guy...hope he heals quickly

    But it is a good humbling reminder that we are not at the top of the food chain (and that is the way it is and should be).

    I don't know how a gun (of any size) will help when you are at that close range -- bear mace is more likely to work.

    I've played around in the woods enough to have seen a number of bears and know that they have romped around outside my tent at night as I slept.

    They are majestic animals and they are just a part of nature in this part of the world -- you just have to accept that as a recreational camper (if not, don't go). You take reasonable precautions and learn to fend them off but you must accept the risk.

    As for wilderness work crews which this guy is a part of, I, too, am left wondering about the safety procedures were instituted and followed -- especially around Bella Coola where it is known to have a large number of bears.

    As for the posting above criticizing the government charging the Alberta farmer for shooting the bear that was charging at his son, I can certainly say that I am not in a position to judge, I simply don't know the whole context.

    It could well be like that South Park episode with Uncle Ned screaming 'It's coming right for us'...
  50. Jason Macleod from Canada writes: I live very close to where the grizzly attack took place and have hiked in the same area many times. Ten years ago another man was severly attacked by a grizzly. It is known by everyone who lives nearby as a grizzly area. Yes, it is wise to carry bear spray or a gun and a satellite phone. But at times, we become complacent. Grizzly bears are very territorial and generally defend a 'feeding area'. This is an area in which food is plentiful - fish next to a river, skunk cabbage, berry patch. They will fight off other bears and humans to defend this area. They will also be triggered into an attack if surprised by someone in their area. Grizzly bears are not endangered in the Bella Coola area. In fact, many local residents feel there are too many grizzlies in the area and a cull is needed. This is at least the fourth major attack in the last five years. Grizzlies also regularly damage vegetable gardens, rip apart orchards, sometimes attack and eat livestock. We also have to contend with cougar attacks, black bears and occasionally wolves. People choose to live here because it is a beautiful, natural, healthy and mostly safe area. First Nations people have lived here for at least the past 10 thousand years, so it is as much 'human' territory as 'bear' territory. Best wishes to Brent Case to get better.
  51. Scott MacDonald from Sundre, Canada writes: The backcountry requires a firearm and -- if possible -- a dog that doesn't mind mixing it up to act as an early warning system. The dog will distract the bear, cougar, whatever. While said creature is eating the dog, you shoot it.

    I've shot one black bear in self defense and 'put the run' to a few others that the dog let me know were sneaking into camp.
  52. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Born again Brent Case! Happy recovery. You get a Gold for bravery and smarts.
  53. martha stewart from Canada writes: Dr Demento writes: "martha stewart from Canada writes: 'They are only fearful of what they learn to fear.'

    Wild animals, including bears, are instinctively fearful of humans. It sounds like this bear was old and unable to hunt its normal prey. Hunger overcame its instinctive fear.

    I guess you don't understand the concept of instinct . . . "

    ---------

    Doc, I guess you don't understand the concept of learning. Go to any national park and learn that bears learn. Or just live out in the country and learn the same thing. You overgeneralize.

    The only regular "prey" for grizzlies where this bear lived are salmon so you explanation doesn't work. In spring they are primarily vegetarian. Moreover, if this was 'hunger' driven it would have killed and eaten him.

    This sounds like - by the teeth - a deranged old bear. Given the high density of grizzlies and the thick bush there, if this was some kind of 'instinctive' bear behaviour these attacks would happen there all the time.
  54. martha stewart from Canada writes: People who want a more realistic view of bear behaviour should read the books by Gary Shelton. He coincidentally lives in this area.

    People who prefer fairy tales should watch The Nature of Things or read the goofy books by Timothy Treadwell or Charlie Russell.

    Treadwell hung around with national park bears in Katmai until one ornery old individual decided to kill him. Anyone who has seen his film might understand why that grizzly did that and why all the other local bears may have been happy that he was gone.

    Russell hung around with three tame grizzlies in Kamchatka and spun naive stories based on that.

    The sad thing about the coverage of this story is that it gives people the wrong impression. Such attacks are extremely rare - although increasing along with the bear populations. But now this is world news. It was on CNN today. They described a '900 pound' grizzly in 'northwestern Canada' - close enough for CNN I guess.
  55. Dr Demento from Canada writes: martha stewart from Canada writes:
    "I guess you don't understand the concept of learning."

    You just don't get it do you? It is the fear of humans that is instinctive. Bears learn to overcome this instinct over time if they are in close proximity to humans, particularly if they associate man with food.
  56. bob saunders from Belleville, ON, Canada writes: One thing nobody hare has mentioned is that bears are : UNPREDICABLE.
  57. Ed Martin from Montreal, Canada writes: Talking about UNPREDICTABLE. So are people!
  58. martha stewart from Canada writes: Dr Demento - I was just out gardening and thinking about this because one of our familar black bears is out in the field right now eating dandelions, as he does every spring.

    He survives around here because nobody shoots bears unless they have to, and he has learned how to behave around people. He does not care that we are here because he knows we aren't going to harm him. But if he learns some bad new tricks someone will.

    Our disagreement boils down to thinking in black and white. Instinct or learning. You don't seem to get how intelligent bears are and thus how much learning plays in their behavior. Instinct usually refers to some form of automatic behavior.

    We agree that bears learn. That doesn't explain this incident. Neither does 'instinct.' Individuality does. That also explains bear 'unpredictability.' Depends on which bear. Individuals are actually quite predictable - depending, again, on their condition, mood and latest lessons. Like people. Old ones can get wierd.
  59. martha stewart from Canada writes: Just saw Ed Martin's post after posting my last one. Lots of food for thought there.
  60. Dr Demento from Canada writes: martha stewart from Canada writes: "You don't seem to get how intelligent bears are and thus how much learning plays in their behavior."

    Nonsense - I said nothing about bears' intelligence. I also live in a town in the Manitoban boreal forest and have had many encounters with them in and about town.

    My point is that the instinct of bears (and most wild animals) is to avoid contact with man. The bear you refer to eating dandelions has learned to overcome his/her natural instinct and has become somewhat tame.

    In our town the deer have lost their natural fear of humans and wander around like squirrels. They actually beg for food. This does not mean they are particularly intelligent, but they have been able to overcome their instinct to avoid human contact.
  61. bruce riley from Canada writes: Stephen Herrero a biologist from Calgary has some decent books on bear attacks.

    I was a bear safety instructor in the seismic industry for years and I found his books very informative.

    The grizzly avoidance for man in theory, was the result of them being shot in the 1600's thru the early 1900's at almost every chance meeting. Those that survived had a natural avoidance of man and that gene was past on. Those bears that did not have a natural fear of man DIED and the genes were not passed on.

    Every bear is different, this man was lucky and happened to respond correctly with this bear to survive, had it been a different bear who knows.
  62. Tough Camper from Vancouver, Canada writes: Yo Martha-

    Yo Dr D-

    Can it.
  63. Gordon Murray from Canada writes: GPS stands for "Grizzly - Plastic Surgery" routing?
  64. martha stewart from Canada writes: Dr Demento - Oh well. Now we're just arguing over semantics.

    Most large mammals are much more intelligent than people give them credit for.

    bruce riley's post explained much, except that humans didn't just start killing grizzlies in the 1600s. That part is a myth. First Nations people killed bears - black, grizzly and polar - from day one, just as they did in Eurasia.

    Back to this incident. That poor guy just happened to encounter the wrong bear on the wrong day in the wrong circumstances. Bad luck.

    Not really much different than just the bad luck of happening to meet some urban junkie-mugger who was so whacked out that day that they just flipped out and attacked you. Perhaps that bear had a severe toothache that put him in such a nasty state?

    As usual, the G & M does not provide enough details.
  65. Fred Field from Nanaimo, Canada writes: If one wishes an interesting read I suggest "Summer of the Grizzly" by Andre Vacher about a bear that attacked three times, leaving one dead in 1980 at Banff. They had all the experts there for eleven days but finally called in an old trapper named Tom Fremont who got rid of it in two days. Having lived at the head of Knight's Inlet for over eight years back in the 50's, I have had many encounters with Grizzlys, some with cubs (not a comfortable feeling facing what I call a "bluff "charge) but when a person knows he does not want to kill one, and has confidence in the weapon he carries, One can set a line drawn (I have been as close as 20 ft.) and the only bear I have had to kill in that time was a wounded one with cubs that some hunters nailed when they came in of a boat to hunt. I still think of it now 50 years later and get upset by how stupid it came about. Had a friend once stay overnight and wanted to see a grizzly and the wife told him to look out the window in the morning and there was a sow with cubs having a feed in her garden. Another interesting read would be "Grizzlys in their backyard" by Beth Day about Jim Stanton and his wife Laurette who lived at the head trapping and guiding for years. This is when they should be out, in fact, I seen a big male up the Nass last week driving out to Cranberry junction plus about four blackies.
  66. Cycling Commuter from Canada writes: Boyd of the North writes:

    "...you don't work with a pistol in one hand."

    Pulling a short-barreled .44 Magnum out of a shoulder holster is a lot faster and more practical than unslinging a long-barreled hunting rifle or shotgun at close range when every tenth of a second counts.

    One of my brothers did have time to unsling his rifle and aim at a bear charging from a distance, but the rifle jammed initially. By the time he unjammed the gun and dropped the bear by putting a round through its neck, the bear was only a few yards away. It's best to always have at least two weapons handy.
  67. Dr Demento from Canada writes: martha stewart:in your post of 17/05/08 at 4:04 AM EDT you wrote "They are only fearful of what they learn to fear."

    My comments regarding the influence of instinct was directed at that comment which is patently absurd.

    They are born fearful of man, but if in regular contact with humans, learn not to fear them.

    Do you finally understand my point?
  68. martha stewart from Canada writes: Doc Demento - I hear you but do not agree.

    They are not born fearful of humans. They learn that from their mothers, or not. Once again, compare the behavior of bears in national parks - the ones today, not the ones that once fed on garbage BTW - to their behavior in areas where they are hunted.

    It all depends on what they learn from their mothers, and that in turn depends on what they learned from their mothers and through their own experiences. Learning is more important than instinct when it comes to individual bear behavior. That's what allows them to adapt so rapidly to changing situations.

    No doubt because of my pen name you won't believe me but go consult some scientific papers or books or talk to some bear biologists or conservation officers with experience both in and out of parks. Or watch park bear cubs - the ones with the 'habituated' mothers who now live around people. Not too close, of course!

    Interesting critters all and all.
  69. hossein hajiagha from Vancouver senior Island, Canada writes: and we in BC should do same (plays dead ) if we saw Gorden campbell in front of us, may he leave us alone . his blood sucker , his sucks are TAX....day after day
  70. Dr Demento from Canada writes: martha stewart from Canada writes: "Learning is more important than instinct when it comes to individual bear behavior."

    Sorry that is plainly wrong. They are wild animals and instinct is their driving force.
  71. Some Guy from Ottawa, Canada writes: Such remarkable endurance, patience and bravery to plan and time his escape from this beast.
  72. A A from Mississauga, Canada writes: All the best to Mr. Case. However, incidents like this call for some review of policies made out of office chair, such as ...
    - - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -
    Bill Hopkins from London, Canada writes: An interesting sidebar: In the National Post today there is a report of an Alberta rancher who is facing court and a possible $500,000 fine for shooting and killing a grizzley that was charging his 13-year-old son. So much for being armed for self-protection in the bush.
    - - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -

    I found story here http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=7dd150de-1528-400d-82ee-fc337697a797
    and it kinda bothers me. And not for the bear but for the similar situation when you are, say confronted by home invasion. By the logic as described in the Vancouver Sun article, we would be able to say that instead of shooting whoever broke and entered your house, you as a homeowner had numerous courses of action instead of the one most likely to happen.

    How did we as a society get to this point?
  73. Albin Forone from Canada writes: Bob G's advice on eastern black bears is confirmed by advice on the hunting show "Canada in the Rough", an enjoyable and informative Sunday a.m. treat, which has been visiting a northern Ontario horseback hunting ranch this last two weeks. The show says that even wild (i.e. not human garbage picker) black bears are scavengers as an ordinary diet component, and they will consider "playing dead" a meal ticket. The suggestion is to back away gradually and count on the natural misanthropy of wild creatures.
  74. martha stewart from Canada writes: Dr Demento writes: "They are wild animals and instinct is their driving force."

    All animals, including us, have instincts. But how much that drives their behavior varies.

    At one end of the spectrum, ants are driven entirely by instincts. At the other end, humans are driven more by learning (including experience).

    There's no black-white generalizations to be made about all animals, "wild" or not.

    Anyways, we agree that bears learn. We just don't seem to agree on how much. Not really worth arguing about, except that we can both learn from this experience.
  75. Dr Demento from Canada writes: Ok martha - I can agree to that.
  76. Robin Hannah from Canada writes: Ms. Stewart - about your point of the other night - you're right, I shouldn't have used the word "terrified" to describe bears. I was exaggerating to make a point, that they're not the monsters of myth. Though I'd still say running into humans wouldn't be their first choice. And I don't blame them.

    Several months ago I was moved by a documentary on Alberta's Charlie Russell. I recommend it.
  77. Brenda Eytcheson from Trego, United States writes: This is truly an amazing story. Obviously God is not through with you yet.
  78. martha stewart from Canada writes: Robin - Yes, its a lovely movie but see my 2:56 PM post. Don't confuse his tame bears with wild ones... too many people do already and that is already leading to some inappropriate behavior in bear country which, when it goes bad, always leads to dead bears. Park managers wish Charlie had never gone off on that tangent. (He also wrote a book called 'Grizzly Heart' which is essentially the basis of the film.)

    His father, Andy Russell, played a critical role in educating people that the old 'killer grizzly' was a myth with his book Grizzly Country published in the late 1960s. Great read, very insightful, but he stretched things a tad to make his case - and Charlie took that sentiment to an absurd 'New Age' extreme.

    His brother Dick is an accomplished bear biologist. For understanding grizzly bear behavior I'd recommend reading his research report on his work in Jasper in the 1970s (for the Canadian Wildlife Service)over either of the above - though its a little hard to find.
  79. Sean L. from Canada writes: Grizzly bears are easy to identify. They have a "camel" like hump behind their shoulders. Black bears do not.

    Playing dead only works with grizzly, and only when they are charging you. If the bear charges you, stand your ground and act aggressively or it will decide it is dominant and it will attack.

    If the bear has not attacked or charged you or it is at a distance, back away slowly and quietly.

    With both bears, if they have decided you are food, playing dead is very dangerous and will just get you dead for real. The safest bet in any bear attack is to fight back. When I camp in the bush I always wear my bayonet, I would prefer a gun but better a knife than nothing....

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