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Chrysler looks at China alliance

The Associated Press

Latest comment posted at 11:06 PM EST 04/07/08

Does deal with Great Wall Motor Co. to study sharing technology, components and distribution ...Read the full article

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  1. Chucky Chucky from Canada writes: Desperate days need desperate measures for US auto industry. But all this will do is give more technology to China which will finish off the US auto in the not so long future.
  2. David Smith from Toronto, Canada writes: Have been a customer for 20 yrs, but if this happens, I will stop buying Chrysler products.
  3. Stude Ham from Canada writes:
    Chrysler and China? It's a perfect match because both make cars of dubious quality...
  4. Negy H from Canada writes: If Chinese are life saver or life killer? It looks like Chrysler wants the Chinese market instead of low cost manufacture this time.
  5. The Iconoclast from Canada writes: First Bush, now Chrysler is going to China. China should tighten border control to prevent undesirables from entering the country.
  6. Templeton Jones from Windsor, Canada writes:

    The domestic car industry is in peril and they need to do whatever they can in order to survive. The truth of the matter is that they need markets and a competitive product to sell on the market. By getting the union out of the way, they can use more robotics, just as Honda, Mazda, and the rest of them use. If they can sell their products on the Chinese market, this will compensate for their losses on the North American market, especially Canada where we tend to by oriental cars. Naturally, our socialists, yes the high maintenance ones whom live in monster homes and own a cottage on Lake Strike, will be in opposition to this sort of thing.
  7. George Levecque from Fergus, Ontario, Canada writes: Anyone purchasing a Chrysler-Ceberus product is taking a chance! There is a very good chance that they will soon be in Chapter 11 in the USA!
    In the USA they offer a somewhat better Warranty service than they offer to Canadian customers, wonder should ask "Why" also why would any Canadian buy from this Company period.
  8. A D from Oakville, Canada writes: I don't fully agree (only 60%) that Chrysler will give more technology to China...actually american cars' technology is somewhat 7 years behind both Japanese or European's cars technology........even european models for GM/Ford are more advanced than its north american cousins...
    In conclusion, no value added (key issue), no R&D, no market adaptation (the big three think only in boomers..big v8, v6's, SUV's, etc)= no sales. not rocket science :)
  9. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes:
    Building cars in China for sale in China might make some sense, but building cars in China for sale in North America or Europe really doesn't.

    China's entire business culture is about cutting corners. The level of quality control that comes out of China is abysmal! That's fine if you're buying a $50 DVD player that you can return for a replacement if it dies in the first year, but people in North America and Europe have MUCH higher expectations from their vehicles. What's worse, people have very long memories when it comes to cars, just read forums like these and you'll find them full of people saying they'll never buy brand X because they bought a car from them in 1976 and it broke down a lot.

    Chrysler is already suffering from a poor reputation for quality from back in the '80s when they were making crap. The last thing they need is another decade of making crap, but chances are that is what they'll get when making cars in China. If they really need to do it then they sure as heck better have actual Chrysler engineers that speak Mandarin on-site to keep watch, because otherwise they're going to get screwed over badly by corner cutting.
  10. P cheng from ottawa, Canada writes: Do they have choice no partner with chinese company for china market? How much is to transport a vechile over Pacific. Forget about shopping the vechile to China. Even Honda/Toyato are manufacutred in china.
  11. Nassar Ben Houdja from Canada writes: Won't be long till Chryslers are available at Wall Mart. Thanks to the self centered unions, which would be redundant with the the Chinese government.
  12. Badges? We don't need no stinking badges from Canada writes: The last decent Chrysler I had was a 1975 Dodge Monaco
  13. Templeton Jones from Windsor, Canada writes:

    There is a theory that the Neanderthal became extinct because it was unable to adapt to a changing world. The other species of the day, us, did adapt in spite of loosing large numbers resulting from a darkened sky, caused by a volcanic eruption.

    I'm beginning to wonder if we Canadians are somewhat like the Neanderthal. We tend to be juvenile in that we want government to protect us and provide us with entitlements. We gripe about the Great Satan to our south, the land of the entrepreneurial spirit, while the Chinese seem to be showing more entrepreneurial energy that we do. Did we Canadians inherit a disproportionate amount of Neanderthal DNA?
  14. Badges? We don't need no stinking badges from Canada writes: The Chinese show entrpreneurial spirit because you can get a lot accomplished with slave labour and 'zero' safety and health standards for their workers.
  15. Bobby Culture from Canada writes: Now all the laid off CAW/UAW workers will be working in China ... Buzz, get your organization skills ready!!! It's a gold mine over their with all the union dues.
  16. David R from Canada writes: If this happens, say good bye to the almost all jobs in NA. It won't be long before they start moving production from NA to China. keeping only what they need to keep the TRAFFs down.
  17. M Irwin from New West, Canada writes: It appears that Chrysler is on the ropes. Looks like Chrylser is partnering up to keep selling internal combustion based vehicles to keep them afloat in the short to medium term. Only when they have some more cash in their pocket will they look to the long term. The D3 squandered their virtual monopoly for decades and now they are scrambling in reaction to factors they thought would would probably never happen. Want somebody to blame in the D3? Blame the D3s Sr Exec's and BoD's in the last decade who were being paid handsomely to stare into their crystal balls and make the hard decisions in terms of R&D investment. Apparently the easy decisions were just too tempting.

    "We need new technology!", yells the public. "Can't be done!" say the D3 in unison. "Alt. vehicles and fuel choices are years if not adecade away" say the D3. "The government must step in to promote alternative energies or cap gas prices!" the public whine. The carbon taxes will breed consumer contempt for higher fuel prices resulting in investment into alternative energies and modes of transportation. If the gov't capped gas prices, there would be no demand to create new transportation technologies and in 30 years would would be in even more dire straits.

    Nothing lasts forever.
  18. Bobby Culture from Canada writes: lynn R from Canada writes: .... I am always curious that how come anything related to China will make a headline?
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Look up the GDP of China ...
  19. The Iconoclast from Canada writes: Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes:
    China's entire business culture is about cutting corners. The level of quality control that comes out of China is abysmal!

    Look at a UK review on the new MG now owned and manufactured in China:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2007/05/05/nosplit/mfchina305.xml
  20. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: This makes sense to me. Why just build and sell crap here when you can build and sell it 1B people who are used to accepting crap. It sounds like a gold mine for Chrysler to me.
  21. A A from Canada writes: David R: I disagree with your jobs statement. There was a recent article stating that it costs more to bring a roll of steel over from china than manufacturing it in the US due to fuel costs. In theory if oil prices remain the same then they will have to keep manufacturing in North America. Also remember the Japanese, Germans and Koreans are still assembling cars here.

    And oh yes....Chrysler is 20 years too late. GM, VW and Toyota have a good handle on the Chinese market. It's going to be real hard for Chrysler to get in thus the alliance in China.
  22. Bobby Culture from Canada writes: The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: ... 1B people who are used to accepting crap. ...
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Obviously, unlike the most of us, you don't shop are Can Tire, Home Depot, Best Buy/Future Shop, Costco, Walmart ...

    Next time you go to Holt Renfrew, check the labels.
  23. APP * from the Border City, Canada writes: As an automotive engineer directly involved with a Chinese auto manufacturer and also dealing with Chrysler I read the article and comments with some interest and some amusement as well. A few of you come close to hitting the nail on the head but most are wide of the mark. First, the article. It was written more like a thinly worded e-mail and I get the feeling that the author was trying to link Chrysler's present situation to generating cashflow in desperation but the story was very scant on details. Chrysler has has a presence in China for a number of years so to say they are doing a deal with Chery or Great Wall isn't necessarily the big news the Associated Press is somehow trying to portray. There are over 100 car manufacturers in China. Consider it 1915 in North America. 10 years from now there will be half that. Do Chinese vehicles have dubious quality? Yes, at present, only because they lack experience and also the numbers of engineers and designers and shop personnel it takes to put a car design together. What I can tell you is that they pick things up very quickly and are superb technical people. They just lack the understanding of subtle details. I liken it to a brilliant surgeon who forgets to wash his hands before surgery. Show them the little things and they'll get the big things done correctly. As for Chrysler and Detroit bashing. I would temper those observations. Car companies from all over the planet (and yes that includes Toyota and Honda) still get a lot of work done in technical facilities in the Detroit area and will continue to do so. The Chinese recognize this (so does Chrysler) and Detroit Inc. will (and has already begun) to evolve as an engineering services region as manufacturing in the area dissolves. Metro Detroit is the #2 area in the United States for technical personnel. For those that bash Detroit, you need to come down here and see for yourself what really goes on.
  24. APP * from the Border City, Canada writes: As an automotive engineer directly involved with a Chinese auto manufacturer and also dealing with Chrysler I read the article and comments with some interest and some amusement as well. A few of you come close to hitting the nail on the head but most are wide of the mark. First, the article. It was written more like a thinly worded e-mail and I get the feeling that the author was trying to link Chrysler's present situation to generating cashflow in desperation but the story was very scant on details. Chrysler has has a presence in China for a number of years so to say they are doing a deal with Chery or Great Wall isn't necessarily the big news the Associated Press is somehow trying to portray. There are over 100 car manufacturers in China. Consider it 1915 in North America. 10 years from now there will be half that. Do Chinese vehicles have dubious quality? Yes, at present, only because they lack experience and also the numbers of engineers and designers and shop personnel it takes to put a car design together. What I can tell you is that they pick things up very quickly and are superb technical people. They just lack the understanding of subtle details. I liken it to a brilliant surgeon who forgets to wash his hands before surgery. Show them the little things and they'll get the big things done correctly. As for Chrysler and Detroit bashing. I would temper those observations. Car companies from all over the planet (and yes that includes Toyota and Honda) still get a lot of work done in technical facilities in the Detroit area and will continue to do so. The Chinese recognize this (so does Chrysler) and Detroit Inc. will (and has already begun) to evolve as an engineering services region as manufacturing in the area dissolves. Metro Detroit is the #2 area in the United States for technical personnel. For those that bash Detroit, you need to come down here and see for yourself what really goes on.
  25. A A from Canada writes: APP thanks for your insight.

    Sadly does not change the fact the majority of Chrysler products are poor quality!
  26. Captain Ontario from Canada writes: Reality!

    Chinese consumers don't want garbage chryslers!

    With the cost of licenses, taxses, etc. they have money to buy a car.

    So they want Toyota and Benz, not American JUNK!
  27. Tiu Leek from T.O, Canada writes: "China's entire business culture is about cutting corners. The level of quality control that comes out of China is abysmal! That's fine if you're buying a $50 DVD player that you can return for a replacement if it dies in the first year, but people in North America and Europe have MUCH higher expectations from their vehicles. "

    Damn straight. If I buy a Ford or GM product, I expect it to die within two - three years at least. :)
  28. Brian Klappstein from Canada writes: "...For those that bash Detroit, you need to come down here and see for yourself what really goes on...."

    (APP * from the border city)

    Thanks for the informed comment. Although I admit my Dodge Magnum has significant Mercedes engineered content, which contributes to its exception driving feel, the best part about it is the 5.7L "Hemi" engine, which is all Detroit.

    Regards, BRK
  29. Don Quixote from The sunny cool Pollution Belt, Ont., Canada writes:
    Chrysler Management to Chinese Manufacturing Administration:

    We supply the sales, you supply the workers,

    some people get hurt......
  30. ken g from Canadian in Mexico, Canada writes: You can already buy a Chino car in Mexico at Electra Mart:

    http://www.domain-b.com/industry/Automobiles/cars/20071126_mexico.html

    Don't know how sales are going but Electra Mart sells just about everything. What I saw, they sure look chino cheap.
  31. Rob L from Vancouver, Canada writes: 20-30 years ago everyone was laughing at Japanese cars, they were poorly built, they copied US designs, and nobody paid much attention to them. Look at them now. Toyota is the #1 vehicle manufacturer in the world. Chinese car manufacturers make crappy cars now, but eveyrone has to start somewhere. For those who are laughing now, does Canada have a car manufacturer? No. Despite massive financial assistance from the government, Canada still doesn't have its own car manufacturer. Canada assembles cars, and has to compete with Mexico for these assembly jobs. I wouldn't be laughing now.
  32. all good from Quibekistan, Canada writes: If somebody can outsource our city hall to china it will realy make a difference. Cars I don t care is up to the consumer to decide what to buy.
  33. R M from Canada writes: It wont take the Chinese long to find out that the "C" in Chrysler stands for Crap. Smart car buyers have known it for 25 years.
  34. Comments closed, censored, deleted or made to disappear from Mini Bushland, Canada writes: "If China did not exist... " -- one would have to invent China
  35. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: Bobby Culture from Canada writes: Obviously, unlike the most of us, you don't shop are Can Tire, Home Depot, Best Buy/Future Shop, Costco, Walmart ...

    Next time you go to Holt Renfrew, check the labels.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Good point. I stand corrected. I guess we are also a bunch of lemmings.
  36. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: APP * from the Border City, Canada: As an automotive engineer directly involved with a Chinese auto manufacturer and also dealing with Chrysler can you tell me why the Chrysler products that I have been buying for the past 25 years have been getting progressively worse in terms of quality? It's not Chrysler and Detroit bashing, it's observation. My next vehicle will not come from one of the big American 3. Many feel as I do. That is why all of the Big 3 are suffering. Bring up the quality and you will get the customers back. It is that simple.
  37. Dosco Steelman from rosemere, Canada writes: I have not had a Chrysler product since 1980 so am unable to comment on their quality but I bought my first Honda Pilot in 2006 and will never make that mistake again.Their attitude was "tough break".
  38. Brian Klappstein from Canada writes: "...Bring up the quality and you will get the customers back. It is that simple...."

    (the choices we make....)

    Hard to comment on that since we don't know the when and what of your last Chrysler/detroit product. However, statistics on initial and longer term quality on the big three over the last 5 years or so simply don't back up the idea that there is a large gap (anymore) between them and the Japan-based car makers.

    Regards, BRK
  39. APP * from the Border City, Canada writes: choices we make......cannot answer your question but I can tell you that Chrysler has had more regime changes and leadership changes than any other car company on the planet and the top down direction does have an effect on the product. but given the original thesis of the article, its irrelevant on what is good or bad about Chrysler quality....the author of the article did not fixate on that. only you and others in the comment section did and that is not really the point. what you should ask and what the author of the article should have done more research on was what were the specific details of the alliance between Chrysler and Great Wall. What I can tell you and what Associated Press, if they had any ability to understand the car industry would have written in the article, was that Great Wall probably needs assistance in sophisticated assemblies such as manual and automatic transmissions, engine development, engine and transmission controls, body structures and driveline components. That is what the Chinese are after; a greater technical understanding of these assemblies as they are very hard to develop and the engineering is just not there yet in the Chinese automotive industry widespread. Stop with the Chrysler/quality crap. The article is not about that. Brian....concerning the Hemi. A few of us met yesterday, with a former Chrysler exec that was a primary engineer during the development of the Hemi during its heyday. I will pass on your comments to him. I am sure he will be very pleased to hear your thoughts.
  40. Brian Klappstein from Canada writes: "....I am sure he will be very pleased to hear your thoughts...."

    (APP * from the border city)

    Please do. The new 5.7L version, which duplicates the valve train layout of the old 426, is a truly great piece of engineering. It's quiet, it's smooth, at 90K km it uses absolutely no oil, makes phenomenal highway mileage and it just never seems to be breathing hard, even pulling what is a pretty heavy car.

    Regards, BRK

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