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Dion heads to heart of oil country to push green strategy

The Canadian Press

Latest comment posted at 6:28 PM EST 04/07/08

Liberal Leader arrives in Alberta with an unpopular carbon tax message ...Read the full article

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  1. Stan L from Canada writes: said Mr. McCormick, 'The point isn't to come and win friends and influence people in Alberta. The point is to show Mr. Dion as a courageous leader who will go and confront the problems where they are and call it like it is,' Mr. McCormick suggested.

    'It's a national message he's trying to get out and if he dodges Alberta and Saskatchewan, given the impact it's going to have, he would be tagged for being a bit of a coward and for not being honest.'

    Mr. McCormick is bang on the money...nonetheless, I hope Dion didn't forget his cup.
  2. Ian Gunn from in Calgary this weekend, United States writes: I would recommend he keep hiden while in Calgary. Maybe only hang out at DM's place :) Talking to the folks while I visit, he will not be very welcome. They've said something about giving him the 'Trudeau-salute'. /shrug :)
  3. Percy from NL from Canada writes: Ian Gunn from in Calgary this weekend, United States ... you wouldn't be suggesting that the people of Alberta are closed-minded would you?
  4. K Kennedy from Toronto, Canada writes: Albertans for the most don't care to address the issue of climate change in a meaningful way, even though Dion's approach has serious flaws it's a starting point for debate on this topic. My view of Alberta (and I'm a former Calgarian born and raised) is that for the most part collectively the province is getting too big for it's britches and tends to flip to the bird to the rest of the country anyways. That level of arrogance is worthy of a showdown at high noon.
  5. Discordant One from Canada writes: As an Albertan, I am not about to gripe too much since for many years Ontario and the East provided us with equalisation payments. Ok, so we get hit a bit harder than other provinces with this realignment of taxation. So what. The resources we offer are and will be in demand for many years to come so the oil corps. will pay for the rights to explore and drill almost regardless of cost. This isn't the 80's anymore and the tar sands are extremely profitable for them now even if the boom is horrible for the average, non-oil sector Albertan.
  6. Joseph Bloggins from Canada writes: Discordant One says 'As an Albertan, I am not about to gripe too much since for many years Ontario and the East provided us with equalisation payments.'

    Really? Why don't you enlighten us.
  7. Ian Gunn from in Calgary this weekend, United States writes: Percy from NL from Canada writes:

    'Ian Gunn from in Calgary this weekend, United States ... you wouldn't be suggesting that the people of Alberta are closed-minded would you? '

    I would be suggesting Albertans have already measured this proposal and have found it wanting. I would imagine the great people of NL would also find this proposal wanting as well.

    The NationalPost has an excellent comparison (high level) of Mr Dion's and Mr Harper's plans. I would encourage you to have a read.
  8. Ian Gunn from in Calgary this weekend, United States writes: Discordant One from Canada writes:

    'As an Albertan, I am not about to gripe too much since for many years Ontario and the East provided us with equalisation payments. '

    I'm sure AB has repaid the equalization payments (which it received between 57 and 64) at least 10 fold over. A reminder, we're NOT talking equalization payments here. We're talking about ANOTHER tax-n-grab from the West this time by Mr Dion.

    Therefore I think the 'welcome' he'll receive will be most appropriate for his message.
  9. Discordant One from Canada writes: Joseph,

    when was the last 'boom' in Alberta? oh yes, that's right pre-ptar sands development. Prior to the boom we were hardly a have province here.

    As a non-oil sector worker, I am a bit pissed to watch the housing market over the past several years. 200% increases in prices in some cases . Rents for the less well off are at Toronto levels. What are we getting out of it but a refund cheque, a waste of our resources, poorer as a whole, a housing crisis, Tim's (as an example) closing due to lack of workers, piss-poor customer service because service industry workers know they can go elsewhere at the drop of a hat. It's really a mess out here unless you make 60K for being a meathead working in 'the industry'

    If you were expecting links, stats etc, go search the government websites for yourself.
  10. Slippery Slope from Canada writes: Good luck Dion. The best strategy would have been to heavily tax personal vehicles which used too much fuel (SUV, Roadsters) and to use that money to encourage (subsidize) fuel misers (hybrids, electric vehicles).

    Everybody wants reduced carbon and greenhouse gases, but nobody wants to pay for it.
  11. Mr X from Canada writes: Everyone seems to overlook the fact that Dions plan doesn't do anything to reduce CO2 except punish industry. It isn't green at all its Liberal red. People point at counties without resource based economies and say look a carbon tax is working for them.
  12. Bobby Dy from Canada writes: Very distinct from our current 'leader' who takes every measure to avoid being questioned on anything where he might run into a hostile audience. I guess that's the difference between belligerence (Harper) and genuine leadership.
  13. martha stewart from Canada writes: Yee haw! Nothing like a Greenhorn at the Stampede. I can hardly wait to see this.

    But better that he dress up as a rodeo clown than a cowboy. And best to skip the Trudeau rose in his lapel.

    Speaking of cowgirls, where's Elizabeth May?
  14. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    The media WANT Dion to be pelted with eggs on this trip. Dion's plan is ridiculously divisive, and the resource-producing regions are correct to be annoyed.

    However, Dion isn't trying to 'sell' anything; he wants a reaction that will stir up anti-western sentiment.

    Kinda how the media were disappointed that the Morgentaler Award didn't create riots. Even Dr. M was disappointed that there wasn't more violence (or did he say 'surprised').

    Dion is like the 'anti-war' protester who wants to get arrested in front of the cameras; he doesn't care about his message--he simply wants to be 'oppressed' for a cool photo/soundbite..

    The people out west are savvy enough to know this and will give Dion what he deserves--none of their attention.
  15. Mr X from Canada writes: 'Slippery Slope from Canada writes: Good luck Dion. The best strategy would have been to heavily tax personal vehicles which used too much fuel (SUV, Roadsters) and to use that money to encourage (subsidize) fuel misers (hybrids, electric vehicles).

    Everybody wants reduced carbon and greenhouse gases, but nobody wants to pay for it. '
    ----------------------------------------------------
    Correction, everyone wants some else to pay for it.
  16. Uncle Fester from Woodbine and Queen, Canada writes:
    Dion is in Calgary pushing the green shaft to a bunch of drunken oil patch workers at the Calgary Stampede.

    I will give him one thing, he has guts.
  17. Rabid Senses from Good gawd, a latte-swilling Westerner, Canada writes:

    I don't know about Doc's analogy of the day. Just not so sure about Dion looking to be divisive and having the media record every sentiment of it.

    I think the good professor at the University of Lethbridge is closer to reality on this one.

    Regardless of what I or anyone thinks, LPC, CPC, or otherwise, GHG adherents or not on board . . . I do respect Dion for being courageous.

    Call it stupidity. Fine, but many of the most courageous have not necessarily been right.

    Call it bravado. Fine, but many of the brave have both accomplished their goal and enjoying the narcissistic pomp of the ceremony.

    Whatever, it does take something many of us do not have to do this.

    It's just kinda sad that Dion never tooled his leadership skills until so late in the game . . . and over the wrong issue.

    Afghan was the chance to be a leader in 2008.
  18. Mr X from Canada writes: 'Bobby Dy from Canada writes: Very distinct from our current 'leader' who takes every measure to avoid being questioned on anything where he might run into a hostile audience. I guess that's the difference between belligerence (Harper) and genuine leadership. '
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Dion has the globeandmail supporting him. Even if he ran into a hostle audience it would be the audience thats made to look bad.
  19. Rachel .. commenting from Hollywood North, Canada writes: Albertans are known for their warm welcoming personality. Dion will be treated fairly.

    After all , Harper was treated royally in the Fete Nationale as if he is a local Quebecer.

    Dion should take advantage of the oppurtunity to explain his carbon tax amidst a tougher audience. We will see what he is made of.
  20. Not The Real Jacques Parizeau from Montreal, Canada writes: Liberals bigotry against Western-Canada is absolutely unbelievable. Liberals have devastated the West with the NEP II and now they are openly musing about doing it again with an NEP II more astutely named 'Green Shift'. Liberals if elected would have absolutely no support from the West. Their support will come almost exclusively from Ontario. Liberals won't have any legitimacy to implement an NEP II but they will do it. Dion has made it abundantly clear that Alberta and Saskatchewan will be hit the hardest. It's about time for the West to rethink it's relatioship with Canada. Western-Canada and Quebec has one thing in common: we share a common enemy namely the Liberal Party of Canada. I tell my friend in the West: Stand up for the Western Canada and don't let the Liberals loot your economy for the sole benefit of Ontario. The best firewall is separation.
  21. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: The problem with Alberta is that many don't believe in democracy or debate. One must fit in. The Stampede folks are offering prizes, but only to people wearing a cowboy hat - the spokesperson suggested (on the news) that good things come with the hat. Would that be tin foil? Newcomers must leave their politics at home and accept the mind meld. Top executives fret that they might not be wearing acceptable cowboy garb - a regular belt (oh, no!) with a regular buckle (sacrilege!). The pressure to conform is considerable and it demonstrates, to me, great insecurity. Mr. Dion would do well to be himself.

    At the turn of the last century, the elites adopted a panoply of specialized place and serving pieces (Saratoga chip servers, chow-chow forks, sardine lifters, butter picks, etc.) so intimidate those - the nouveau riche - who sought to join the ranks. Here, being willing to dress up as an urban cowboy is the initiation rite. After that, one can hang up one's brains.
  22. Percy from NL from Canada writes: It seems the man that many Conservatives have labelled a political coward is heading into enemy territory to explain his carbon tax plan. Sounds pretty gutsy to me.
    Now if only Harper, who has bravely been hiding behind the doors of Fortress PMO for the past two years, came out to talk to Canadians we might finally have a good political debate in this country.
    It looks as though the politically brave are finally being revealed. Not sure some are pleased with that truth however.
  23. Bobby Dy from Edmonton, Canada writes: Mr. X, the Globe and Mail will hardly be the only media covering his visit. The Calgary Herald and Edmonton Journal will be the interesting papers to watch. It's easy to predict what the Ed. Sun and the Calgary Sun will say. Of course, if you actually read those papers...
  24. George Duncan from Canada writes: Dion is another Trudeau in disguise. He should stay at home instead of trying to ruin and balkanize Canada. People who would vote for Dion and any of his crew are as stupid as he is.
  25. ss dd from Vancouver, Canada writes: Maybe he's there just to show them the finger...
    After all, that stategy worked wonders for his beloved Trudeau in BC :-)
  26. Bill Harrison from Canada writes: Interesting one cannot comment on Garth Turner's statement. Is it because those who claim the G&M manages comments are right? I hope not. Anyway, the soft treatment of Turner by Canadian Press on this story is interesting. It would have been for more critical had Turner still been a Conservative. Also, CP had it wrong on Turner's political affiliation in 2006, as he was elected in that year as a Conservative.
  27. Bug Powder Dust from Vancouver, Canada writes: As an ex-Albertan now living in BC, I have seen terrible changes come over my home province during the last 15 years. Alberta is no longer a province. It is an american colony. As such, it shows all the traits of colonial politics: one party rule, incompetent buffoons for rulers, massive syphoning off of resource wealth to foreign companies, wide-spread environmental destruction, corruption, limited protections for citizens and workers...I could go on.

    Dion has shown incredible courage in coming to meet face-to-face the bully-boy politics epitomized by Harper and the CPC. No matter what the outcome, Dion will only benefit in the end. K Kennedy is right, the rest of Canada is starting to get fed up with uppity Alberta.
  28. R M from FORT MCMURRAY, Canada writes: If Dion was genuinely interested in solving environmental problems in Alberta, then his strategy would clearly indicate that all of the the money he wants to take away from Alberta Businesses would stay in Alberta to solve Alberta problems.

    That is not the case, and his 'Green Strategy' is really just another N.E.P. like equalization program designed to move money from the West to the East and disguised as an environmental initiative.
  29. Mark S from Calgary, Canada writes: Dianne Marie, make sure Dion has a knife and fork to eat his corn dog with, okay.
  30. Dick Garneau from Canada writes: Percy from NL: Ontario Liberals and Green Fanatics are the most closed minded people on earth.

    They refuse to accept that greenhouse models do not take into consideration:

    Pyro-convection like the one in Edmonton that equalled 1,200 Hiroshima bomes going off 3 to 5 times a minute, putting carbons, smoke and ash, 13 km into the atmosphere. Or the impact of Sunspot activity, La Nino, El Nino

    Lets hope the scientist studying the pyro-convection in Saskatchewan puts mans puny attempts to control nature to rest.

    .
  31. Bobby Dy from Edmonton, Canada writes: The rhetoric (e.g., NEPII) is way out of proportion with the actual policy, which I would classify as timid with respect to the dollar amount per tonne of carbon. The fact is that the high price of oil is a major factor in driving up the value of the dollar. That took money directly out of Ontario and Quebec and put it in the hands of the West. Moreover, interest rates have been maintained higher than warranted in order to dampen inflation in Western Canada. It would be equally valid to claim that the federal government's pro-West high dollar policy has taken billions out of Eastern Canada.

    In terms of GHG reductions, the fact is that if the West makes a disproportionate contribution to GHG emissions, any policy that seriously addresses the issue will have a bigger impact on Western Canada. Cap and Trade or a carbon tax or a combination of the two will all have the same effect. The reason why the Chretien and Martin governments didn't go far enough towards meeting targets is that they were pandering to voters in Western Canada. The CPC are taking the same approach. All that does is defer the cost, with interest.
  32. rick from river city from Canada writes: Dion will do a drive by through Alberta and then tell the ROC that everyone he spoke to at the Calgary Zoo supports sending Alberta and Saskatchewan cash east. Dion is not pushing a green strategy - there is no environmental strategy involved. Dion is trying to sell an economic strategy of how Albertans will be further ahead ten years from now if they let Dion help diversify the oil industry by sending profits east. Would he really be anyones first choice for economic diversification strategies for an industry and a whole half of the country he and his party know absolutely nothing about, have never cared about and want to impede from playing a larger national role in Canadas economy as it would negatively affect them politically.
  33. Dick Garneau from Canada writes: I forgot to mention the Ethanol fraud which is costing 5 billion a year in North America and climbing for unproven benefits. The Green Fanatics will only be happy as the death count mounts.
  34. Bobby Dy from Edmonton, Canada writes: diane marie, I couldn't agree more with your assessment of the situation.

    Discordant One, 60K vastly underestimates the salaries and what is needed to live in Alberta right now.
  35. Edgar Allen Poe from No City, Canada writes: If in 10 years science proves that climate change is not man made driven and CO2 has absolutely zippo to do with it, will we be reimbursed?

    Didn't think so.

    We have a provincial plan. We don't need no stinking commie plan! HAHAHAHA!

    All the whiners talking about how Americanized AB is BWAAAHHAA! You elitists can suck my toe. HEEHHAW! Gitter Dun!
  36. Bobby Dy from Edmonton, Canada writes: Dick Garneau, the grain-ethanol program was criticized from the start because it consumed more energy than what it produced. Politicians were pandering to grain farmers and the grain-ethanol lobby. It was never a 'Green' solution. It's primary proponents were grain farmers who saw an opportunity to improve their lot in life. That's not entirely unfair because they have not been getting 'fair' prices for the grain (due to farm subsidies) for quite some time. Cellulosic ethanol makes sense but the technology isn't there yet to make it viable.
  37. Randal Oulton from Toronto, Canada writes: Has he booked his trip yet to Quebec dairy land to talk to the farmers about how much greenhouse gas their cows are producing?

    Ah. Thought not.
  38. F Los from Toronto, Canada writes: Dick Garneau - the 'ethanol fraud' that you speak of was never pushed by environmentalists. It's pushed by the agricultural lobby - especially in the American midwest - where they saw that depleted oil reserves gave their cornfields the potential of a cash-cow. Get your facts straight.

    Regarding global warming, you just don't understand and probably never will.
  39. Melvin Partridge from Canada writes: There's no use in trying Dion. Alberta is the biggest grudge holder in all of Canada.
  40. Brian Klappstein from North Bay, Canada writes:
    '...the rest of Canada is starting to get fed up with uppity Alberta....'

    (Bug Dust)

    You mean because Albertan's have an independence streak, they're 'uppity'? Alberta is culturally distinct for sure. Alberta became more of an entrepreneurial culture partly because of the high risk involved in the oil business.

    But I thought Canada was all about diversity Bug Dust? Or just the kind of diversity where we are different but not so different we all don't worship big central government?

    Regards, BRK
  41. rick from river city from Canada writes: If only Dion could be honest and fair with Canadians and suggest a consumption tax on gasoline for everyone. Oil has to be produced or the country folds. Consumption rates drive the price and the level of consequent pollution. Dion often refers to dealing with pollution as a goal of his ghg plan - why then is he not addressing the visible pollution caused by cars in the Golden Horseshoe. No, NEP II is an easier way and liberals always take the easy way... higher taxes.
  42. Bobby Dy from Edmonton, Canada writes: Edgar Allan Poe, the shortest term models make testable predictions that we will know the results of by 2012. The money is being returned/redistributed so there is nothing to return. Interestingly, no additional bureaucracy is needed to implement this plan whereas the cap and trade programs will need an extensive bureaucracy to support. That said, Dion's current price on carbon is weak and a cap and trade system will likely be implemented as well.

    I agree with Slippery Slope, however, that one thing that should be done is to put very punitive costs on urban SUVs, oversized pickups etc...that are non-commercial. Something like $5000/yr in a vehicle registration surtax might have a real impact.
  43. Joseph Whistle from Canada writes: Mr X: It's not meant to 'punish'. It's meant to shift taxes around with net zero gain, roughly anyway, what's feasible.
    It's an incentive to then start looking for ways to avoid these taxes. Make the right decisions and you actually save money.
    For instance, the next time you buy a car you might actually use the fueleconomy.gov website to determine actual fuel consumption rates, instead of going by those lying numbers that the dealer shows you.
    (and yes, they almost always lie, if not, they always lie).
    Things that create a carbon foot print, like pastic bags might get taxed. This is a good thing. People ought to not use so many of these darn bags.
    It's a base, a foundation from which we build on.
    In the end it'll save energy, money, streamline. A meant to be a constructive positive thing.
  44. Percy from NL from Canada writes: It's my understanding that the man Harper has supposedly chosen as his new communications director is a major supporter of ethanol fuels. Oops!
  45. Bug Powder Dust from Canada writes: Diane Marie - your comment that The pressure to conform demonstrates great insecurity (exemplified by Stampede Week) is very insightful. Stampede week is not a genuine cultural event anymore. It is a tired pastiche of American stereotypes about what it means to be 'Western'
  46. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    Dion gets a polite reception--'Alberta Warms up to Dion's Vision'

    Dion gets egged--'Albertans Show their true cokors--they deserved to be taxed into oblivion'

    People talk about Dion's 'courage'. ROTFLMAO as Vern would say.

    The spinners have all contingencies covered--Alberta will either look compliant with his 'plan' or be made to look like a band of rednecks.

    BTW diane--your sweeping and hateful generalizations about Albertans are as disgusting as the anti-GTA slurs spouted by the usual trolls.
  47. Brian Ch from Canada writes: Dion at the Stampede will be like Don Knotts in the Shakiest Gun in the West.
  48. B to the A to the R to the T from the left coast, Canada writes: I think the tax is fair. Alberta produces more C02 per capita than any other province. Since the carbon economy benefits Alberta the most whereas the negative effects of carbon emissions are felt worldwide it's upto Alberta to be a good global citizen and work towards cleaning up its act.
  49. M. Mark from Canada writes: I'm beginning to like Dion more. He'll never be flashy, dynamic leader like other heads of government but he might make an okay prime minister. This carbon tax is a good idea. The only way we will start changing our habits is if we are hit in the pocketbook for doing bad things and rewarded financially by doing good things. It worked with cigarette taxes.
  50. Dick Garneau from Canada writes: I am old enough to remember the putative freight rate policy of eastern Canada on western Canada. We all know of the Canadian Wheat Board control of the west, that does not apply to Ontario and Quebec, get a grip.
  51. Polar Bear from Floating Iceberg, Canada writes: It is easier to do the right thing when you are flush with funds. Investing in energy other than fossil fuel when we can afford it, is a good idea.

    I hope close minded Albertans see that today we can afford a change. When the chips will come down, none of the provinces will throw a penny in our begging bowl. But then I don't think some Albertan's care ... they will just take their SUV and caravan somewhere else.

    Remember - what comes up, comes down.

    PS: Dion's one visit makes it one more than Mr. Harper's! At least he has the courage to show up.
  52. Edgar Allen Poe from No City, Canada writes: I see there's plenty o'bull from the DM/BD crowd. These fora never seem to disappoint when it comes to these Liberal operatives. Jack Layton was on the radio here, Dave Rutherford show, and was slamming the LPC tax on Canadians. He agrees more with the CPC and AB govt. plan of going after the big emitters and putting the money in a fund for those industries to use to create means of becoming more efficient and for that money to be spent on alternative energy solutions. He knows more about AB than anyone I've heard of from the LPC, especially Diane and Bobby. He was statesmanlike and a pleasure to listen to. I think I might even send him $200! The NDP will end up being the offical opposition after the next election. With the recent addition of Byers, that CBC host, and former AB provincial NDP leader Ray Martin the NDP are drawing talented people from the left side of the aisle who would have normally migrated to the LPC. When you account for the centrists who would normally go to the LPC those will also migrate to the CPC making that party more fiscally conservative but socially liberal, centrist, meaning a CPC majority is in the cards with an NDP minority. The LPC are toast, only out of touch latte sipping elitists like Diane, Bobby, etc will remain there. That dog doesn't hunt, hehe.
  53. Vern McPherson from writes:
    All that money the COns wasted lying to the world Dion was not a leader ????????

    spyer any truth to the rumor the oracle will travel to newfieland this summer and tell citizens there he doesn't need them ?
  54. rick from river city from Canada writes: B to the A to the R to the T from the left coast, Canada writes: I think the tax is fair. Alberta produces more C02 per capita than any other province.

    Why limit it to just the most per capita. Why not address the rest. Because the rest are outside Alberta.
  55. Not The Real Jacques Parizeau from Montreal, Canada writes: Liberals bigotry against Western-Canada is absolutely unbelievable. Liberals have devastated the West with the NEP II and now they are openly musing about doing it again with an NEP II more astutely named 'Green Shift'. Liberals if elected would have absolutely no support from the West. Their support will come almost exclusively from Ontario. Liberals won't have any legitimacy to implement an NEP II but they will do it. Dion has made it abundantly clear that Alberta and Saskatchewan will be hit the hardest. It's about time for the West to rethink it's relatioship with Canada. Western-Canada and Quebec has one thing in common: we share a common enemy namely the Liberal Party of Canada. I tell my friend in the West: Stand up for the Western Canada and don't let the Liberals loot your economy for the sole benefit of Ontario. The best firewall is separation.
  56. Vern McPherson from writes:
    Anyone know where the oracle got his Stampede training after he ran away from home in Ontario to the west ???

    I can guarantee one thing. Dion will never appear in that ludicrous outfit harper wore in his debut - the slewfoot hat and the leather vest made him look like a cross between a drag queen and half a Tom Mix's horse's a$$ ............
  57. rick from river city from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes:
    All that money the COns wasted lying to the world Dion was not a leader ????????

    Who knew he would do such a good job of displaying his weaknesses all on his own. Dion is a lying non-leader.
  58. Edgar Allen Poe from No City, Canada writes: The etahnol bandwagon was indeed started by the environmentalists but was pushed the hardest by the farm industry. The enviro's throw out any straw argument to stop big oil and got blindsided by the massive farm lobby. Let the finger pointing begin.

    What is with this close minded AB bull? Get a friggin life.
  59. Dick Garneau from Canada writes: F Los Toronto Green fanatics blames the agricultural lobby, economists blame the dependency of middle east oil, environmental fanatics run for cover as the price of food rises due to their folly. Food for Gas is a reality. Shame!

    .
  60. Walker fromtheevilempireofAB from Canada writes: Discordant One:

    Boo-friggin-hoo. If you don't like it move, please. Or, try quitting your job at Tim Hortons and getting one that pays, like the rest of the 'meatheads'.
  61. Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: Polar Bear from Floating Iceberg, Canada writes: 'PS: Dion's one visit makes it one more than Mr. Harper's! At least he has the courage to show up.'

    ========================================

    Wow - if he and the rest of the Fed Liberals only had the courage to 'show up' and vote, in the HOC. ;)
  62. Paul Anderson from CalgaryGreenHick, Canada writes: Have posted two messages in support of Mr. Dion's Green shift and critical of the slant of this article. Do you suppose my position has been deemed unacceptable by our minders?
  63. Stan L from Canada writes: Not The Real Jacques Parizeau from Montreal, Canada writes: Liberals bigotry against Western-Canada is absolutely unbelievable. ........Stand up for the Western Canada and don't let the Liberals loot your economy for the sole benefit of Ontario. The best firewall is separation.

    Question? Do real and intelligent Albertans actually buy into this stuff above? I mean seriously? I live in Ontario and don't seem to remember seeing the big bags of loot from Alberta riding into Union station...Do people seriously believe the tin-foil hat nonsense that the Liberals sole purpose is to steal from the west to give money to Ontario? Becuase if that's the case then we were all duped becuase all those federal funds didn't make it here.....LOL. If this is how a large number of people feel then you need to stop listening to talking oil splotches and get over yourselves.......we are not all sitting around devising 'schemes' to get at your lucre
  64. Vern McPherson from writes:
    rick from river city from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes:
    All that money the COns wasted lying to the world Dion was not a leader ????????
    Who knew he would do such a good job of displaying his weaknesses all on his own. Dion is a lying non-leader.
    Posted 04/07/08 at 7:44 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

    =========================================

    right on boombrain...............
  65. Bug Powder Dust from Vancouver, Canada writes: BRK- interesting argument, but I disagree. Heavily resource-dependent economies like Alberta actually create bad corporate habits that work against entrepreneurship. The culture of 'building', whether a company or a community, is replaced with an ethos of 'exploiting' or taking. In resource exploitation there is certainly some risk, but no more so than any other enterprise. However, in resource extraction the ROI timelines is ridiculously compressed. Far more so than in manufacturing say, airplanes.

    The result is that money becomes 'lazy' All the things necessary for a healthy sustainable economy (and vibrant entrepreneurship) are ignored- infrastructure, education, the environment, etc. The result? An economic culture of 'if you can't dig it up, cut it down or steal it from the indians, why bother?'
  66. Spending our money from Canada writes: Dion comes to Calgary for only 1 reason,
    he's hoping to get lots of publicity that he can take back to Ontario and Quebec.
    If the reaction from Alberta is hostile,he can tell the easterners how he tried to explain the Green Shift to Alberta,but they just don't want to hear the truth.
    If the reaction is polite, he can say to Ontario and Quebec that Albertans are reasonable people and they understand the importance of the Green Shift.
    Look for lots of BBQ pics of Dion with those polite 'who understand' people and pics of the hostile bunch 'that don't understand'.
    It's all for Ontario and Quebec media.
    Shouldn't he really be in Quebec celebrating Quebec City?
  67. Chuck Berry from Canada writes: Mr. Dion, tell us how your carbon tax will benefit the environment. Tell us what countries have a carbon tax and the benefits to the environment that resulted in those countries. Tell us how lower-income earners who already pay little or no income tax will benefit from income tax cuts. Tell us how Aboriginals living on reserves who pay no income tax will benefit from income tax cuts. Tell us how homeless people who have no income to tax will benefit from income tax cuts. Mr. Dion, your carbon tax will force economies to become more diversified. Tell us how your carbon tax will make manufacturing and business more competitive and save highly paid jobs from being lost to Mexico or the United States. Tell us, Mr. Dion. We really want to know.
  68. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: The Stampede message is:-- We think everyone should think the same way, so for ten days we will all make an attempt to dress and act the same way. Hey, it works for some religious groups and ethnic minorities. If strangers or newcomers, whose thinking we aren't sure about, try very hard with their costumery, at least we won't be reminded that they might temporarily harbour alien thinking. Tourists need not try so hard because their spending keeps our annual Rite of Conformity in the financial black.
  69. David Griffith from NS, Canada writes: Is Dion renting a Popemobile for this visit?
  70. Vern McPherson from writes:
    Did I say 31 % ??

    Sorry I meant to point out that includes 5.5 % from the mighty proivnce of Alberta all of whose citizens take regular injections vaccinating them against democracy in any of it's forms.

    Bottom line ? 25.5 % in the rest of the Counrty. .........

    not muckinfutch after 3 years of severe tithing and all that money in the bank ........ is it sweenz ????
  71. Dick Garneau from Canada writes: Vern McPherson: You can have the last word, I guess it takes one to know one.
  72. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    The 'Green Shift' isn't about modifying carbon consumption; it's about re-raising the GST by stealth.

    Green Shift Tax--GST--coincidence?? Not.

    Dion will collect 5 billion more than he returns in IT cuts. Not 'neutral'.

    Is he investing in green tech with this 5 Billion? No, he's spending it on social programs. ie stuff a GST hike should pay for.

    BTW--the 5 Billion is what a 1% GST hike would generate.

    There's nothing green about his shift--it's a GST hike wrapped in a carbon cloth--the main difference of course being that this new GST will be drawn mainly from the west and used to provide free daycare for Rosedale moms.
  73. David Griffith from NS, Canada writes: FROM THE 'YOU MIGHT NOT SEE THIS IN THE GLOBE' FILE:

    http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2008/07/04/6070221-cp.html
    OTTAWA - Liberal MP Garth Turner has come under fire for blasting Quebec sovereigntists on his blog as 'balkanizing separatist losers.'

    It was bound to happen sooner or later, the great Ego finally putting his foot into his new Liberal mouth. Harper rightly kicked his a$$ for it. Dion, the hapless, spineless twit that he is, will let it pass. Garth, we don't miss you. Not a bit.
  74. rick from river city from Canada writes: Stan L from Canada writes:
    .......we are not all sitting around devising 'schemes' to get at your lucre

    we know the citizens of the east are not devising schemes Stan. We have no confidence in the LPC though. No Liberal leader (or non-leader in the case of the last two) have ever shown an interest in the welfare of the west. To liberals a strong west is a challenge to their grip on the country. To us a strong west is the next phase for a growing and stronger Canada. We think Quebec and the Maritimes agree. Why cant Ontario let other provinces be strong.
  75. Troy Ackerman from Canada writes: K Kennedy from Toronto, Canada writes: Albertans for the most don't care to address the issue of climate change in a meaningful way, even though Dion's approach has serious flaws it's a starting point for debate on this topic. My view of Alberta (and I'm a former Calgarian born and raised) is that for the most part collectively the province is getting too big for it's britches and tends to flip to the bird to the rest of the country anyways. That level of arrogance is worthy of a showdown at high noon. _______________________________Then stay in Toronto where everything is perfect!!! Cry cry cry, the Toronto way of life.
  76. Ed Long from white Rock, Canada writes: Nothing new in the article.

    Nothing new in the comments, although Spending Our Money probably has the most succinct analysis.

    The issue has been lost in multiple layers of partisan blabber and policy.

    It's summer.

    HOC not in session.

    Figure out the carbon account in eating BBQ, smile for the cameras, Globe will always publish front page pictures and hop the red eye home.
  77. Iain's Opinion from BC, Canada writes: Hello! Any brains around?
    2 Billion Asians are moving from poverty to affluence.
    Convince them to not desire the life that we have shown them to be a good life and maybe if it's done within the next 10 years we can survive as a species.
    LOL!
    We're toast.
  78. Spending our money from Canada writes:
    M. Mark from Canada writes: I'm beginning to like Dion more. He'll never be flashy, dynamic leader like other heads of government but he might make an okay prime minister. This carbon tax is a good idea. The only way we will start changing our habits is if we are hit in the pocketbook for doing bad things and rewarded financially by doing good things. It worked with cigarette taxes.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Wonderful analogy about the cigarette taxes, if you don't want to pay just quit smoking,right?
    Don't want to pay carbon taxes? Just turn of the electricity and gas to your house and stop driving your car.
    What's your alternative if you do that,dofus?
  79. Pragmatic Pundit from Calgary, Canada writes: The myth that Alberta is more entrepreneurial than the rest of the country is quite amussing, as is the myth that we have a distinct culture. We're sort of like the guy that continually tries to give himself his own nickname.
  80. Vern McPherson from writes:
    spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:
    The 'Green Shift' isn't about modifying carbon consumption; it's about re-raising the GST by stealth.
    Green Shift Tax--GST--coincidence?? Not.
    Dion will collect 5 billion more than he returns in IT cuts. Not 'neutral'.
    Is he investing in green tech with this 5 Billion? No, he's spending it on social programs. ie stuff a GST hike should pay for.
    BTW--the 5 Billion is what a 1% GST hike would generate.
    There's nothing green about his shift--it's a GST hike wrapped in a carbon cloth--the main difference of course being that this new GST will be drawn mainly from the west and used to provide free daycare for Rosedale moms.
    Posted 04/07/08 at 7:59 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

    =================================

    Come come spyer. Dion is not a leader. That plan you outlined is far too sophisticated for a rat like him .... yes ?

    I mean really ????

    After the COns spent all that tithing money on the forever ad campaign ?? And now you and the COns are fearing him ???

    I am surprised at you spyer ......... what a waste of good scarce resources ......
  81. Bobby Dy from Edmonton, Canada writes: Rutherford? I'm surprised that he allowed Layton on the show. In terms of impact on the Alberta economy, a cap and trade system with the targets set tough enough will have a greater impact. In the end, cap and trade versus carbon tax will make little difference in terms of what the consumer pays. The fact is that reducing emissions will cost money. Layton's rhetoric won't change that. Harper's NO PLAN plan will only defer the problem so that we will have to pay more to cut deeper faster.
  82. brian hope from Canada writes: Note that Alberta will pay a very high carbon tax, the rest of Canada a high carbon tax except for Quebec which obtains most of its power from hydroelectric. However, everyone including Quebec will get the same reduction in income tax etc. Nice going, Dion, giving more billions of the rest of Canada money to Quebec.
  83. Vern McPherson from writes:
    rick from river city from Canada writes: Stan L from Canada writes:
    .......we are not all sitting around devising 'schemes' to get at your lucre we know the citizens of the east are not devising schemes Stan. We have no confidence in the LPC though. No Liberal leader (or non-leader in the case of the last two) have ever shown an interest in the welfare of the west. To liberals a strong west is a challenge to their grip on the country. To us a strong west is the next phase for a growing and stronger Canada. We think Quebec and the Maritimes agree. Why cant Ontario let other provinces be strong.
    Posted 04/07/08 at 8:01 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

    ============================

    You lie rickie. It was the libs write-offs that made the oil sands investments pay off.

    the oracle is fond of pointing out he just cancelled same in the 07 budget.

    You are not stupid rickie. You simply lied ....
  84. Not The Real Jacques Parizeau from Montreal, Canada writes: Stan L from Canada: Actually, the money that the Liberals will steal from Alberta is going to end up in the pockets of GM, Ford, Chrysler and Magna shareholders. Indeed, the cash grab the Liberals are plotting will be use to prop-up Ontario's ailing manufacturing and auto industry as was the case for NEP I. Instead of stealing Alberta's money, Ontario should look at Alberta and learn a few things about entrepreneurship. It makes me laugh when these stupid Ontario Liberals were openly hoping that the Eastern migrants to Alberta would vote Liberal in the last provincial election in Alberta and thus help Ontario's Liberals both provincial and federal to seize the control of the oil & gas industry by nationalizing it as Mark Holland threated to do. Fortunately, that didn't happen as Eastern migrants realized the superiority of conservative values and ended up supporting the conservatives just like old-stock Albertans. Why blow up something that works worderfully well ? The difference is clear: Alberta's economy lead by a conservative governmet is soaring, Ontario's economy lead by left-wing Liberals is falling apart. Why should Alberta pays for Ontario's Liberals imcompetence and the failure of Ontarians to elect a conservative government with sound economics policies?
  85. rick from river city from Canada writes: diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: The Stampede message is:-- We think everyone should think the same way, so for ten days we will all make an attempt to dress and act the same way. Hey, it works for some religious groups and ethnic minorities. If strangers or newcomers, whose thinking we aren't sure about, try very hard with their costumery, at least we won't be reminded that they might temporarily harbour alien thinking. Tourists need not try so hard because their spending keeps our annual Rite of Conformity in the financial black.

    yes, the Stampede is so nefarious.. kind of like Highland Games celebrations in southern Ontario or Joe Mufferaw Days in the Ottawa Valley or logging events in BC. Bunch of people wearing the family tartan for the first time watching dancers all dressed the same dancing the same to music that all comes from one instrument bagpipes. Whispers of Druids. Annual rites of conformity - a little over the top in your posts since the Green Shaft announcement DM.
  86. Stan L from Canada writes: rick from river city from Canada writes: .....we know the citizens of the east are not devising schemes Stan. We have no confidence in the LPC though. No Liberal leader (or non-leader in the case of the last two) have ever shown an interest in the welfare of the west. To liberals a strong west is a challenge to their grip on the country. To us a strong west is the next phase for a growing and stronger Canada. We think Quebec and the Maritimes agree. Why cant Ontario let other provinces be strong.

    rick......methinks you should get over yourself, that interest you think wasn't shown to the west...prey tell what kind of consideration did Ontario get from 1993 onwards that would make you think we received something you did not......cripes the west is hard done by nonsense is as boring as listenign to my kids when they were young fighting over who got the largest piece.......and yes, rick it is writeen in Ontario secret code book not to let any other province be successful....that's why we rar on on way to have-not status all part of a plan.....yup.
  87. David Griffith from NS, Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes:

    After the COns spent all that tithing money on the forever ad campaign ?? And now you and the COns are fearing him ???
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Are you serious, vermon? We don't fear that sap at all. We DO fear what will become of this country should we ever make the mistake of letting him run the country. That truly IS scarey. The result will be a leaner, meaner, colder, impoverished Canada. I have faith that when the chips are down, i.e. an election and not a random poll, Canadians will do the right thing and buy this goofus a one-way ticket to France.
  88. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    Vern--

    Harper's GST cuts removed a source of cash required for the LPC programs they've been promising. After allowing the last cut, Dion was quoted as saying he might re-raise the GST. He was excoriated for this.

    In St. John's, the LPC discussed revenue alternatives. Their pollster/advisor, Marzolini, warned them that re-raising the GST was suicide.

    The solution?? Create a scheme that pretends to be a GHG measure, whereas it is simply a de facto way to replace the lost GST revenue.

    It's not going to alter GHG production. It is a GST hike that spanks the west and gives social goodies to Ontario.

    This will be the prevailing opinion once Dion's tour is finished.

    PS--Nobody ever claimed that the LPC weren't clever at finding wayd to tax people....
  89. Bobby Dy from Edmonton, Canada writes: spicy doc, I agree that Dion's plan is nowhere near aggressive enough to make a dramatic difference on CO2 emissions. It is more of an income redistribution program than anything else. However, I don't see that it has any relationship to the GST. They should increase the GST and cut back on income tax. The GST was a big hit for the government and preferentially benefited those making over 100K per year. Those in the lowest income tax bracket were hit the most. If Harper wanted to be fair about taxation, he would have reduced the GST 1% and increased the GST rebates significantly while moving the income threshold modestly upward. That would have been a tax cut that was balanced for rich and poor.
  90. Big Wayne Kerr from Canada writes: We missed you crazy Vern.

    Dion is still a political and economic suicide.

    But welcome out again.
  91. Discordant One from Canada writes: Bobby,

    I am in Edmonton and while I make more than 60K, I do know many many people who make due on below 40K. Granted they are the ones who purchased a house before the boom but they all somehow manage to meet the requirements of life even if it may entail things like vacationing in province etc. Havinig said that, I can't imagine trying to start out here NOW at less than 60K
  92. Paul Jay from Canada writes: Give 'em hell Stephan! You are barely understandable, unpresentable and non-photogenic, but compared to Harper - you are gold.
  93. Sam Gallagher from Canada writes: Ah yes - Stephan Dion and his trusty sidekick Kyoto (the 21st century version of Sgt Preston of the Mounted Police and his dog Yukon King). Sort of like trying light a match in a hurricane.

    Before you all jump on me, I live in Alberta - I have also lived/worked for two years in The Netherlands where waste and excess are dirty words. In the Netherlands, there is a quarterly (every 3 months) 'Mass' tax for a privately owned automobi