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Morgentaler honour launched in church basement

CAROLINE ALPHONSO

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 11:13 PM EST 04/07/08

Informal group met in United Church to promote nomination that those opposed to abortion say debases the appointment ...Read the full article

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  1. OLP AGM beer a from Canada writes: No wonder the United Church of Canada is falling part. All the good people left and formed other churches (churches that hold values that don't just change as the political wind blows)
  2. siren call from Canada writes:
    Slippery Slope, do you happen to have a reference for the statement that Morgentaler does not perform abortions of Jewish women?
  3. Joe V from Canada writes: Slippery Slope from Canada writes: 'If the good doctor was so interested in woman's rights, why isn't he in Israel fighting against their strict abortion rules?'

    He's 85. You'll probably be drooling then. In the meantime, why aren't you doing something as important in your life as he did in his?
  4. Kyle Wiebe from Canada writes: What is it that makes people justify the immorality of a persons life by the morality of the same? I guess thats most peoples theology and they're stickin to it. I have a question. I dont really know much about this guy. What are all these great things that he has done? Is it just that he is so progressive?
  5. BRANDON PRINGLE from Canada writes: My wife is adopted. If her mother would have murdered/aborted her instead of giving her to a loving family, I would not have the amazing woman I have the priveledge to be married to. Strike one.We were also counseled to murder/abort our daughter also because she 'might' be brain damaged at birth. Today our daughter is a wonderful, smart, and beautiful 14 year old. Strike two. The risks to women who have abortions can be compared to the efforts to hide the truth about smoking. Before all the truth came out about the effects of smoking on our health, it was all don't ask, don't tell. All the people who tried to hide the truth from unsuspecting women will one day be forced to look in the mirror and take responsibility for the devastation to women's health in the name of 'rights'. Strike three. Honoring Morgentaler for this contibution is an abomination of the highest order. Hitler decided Jews were expendable. Abortion rights people decide 'unwanted babies' are expendable. Our country cannot expect to continue to expect to have rights and freedoms when we destroy the most defensless individuals in our society, unborn dreamers who should grow up and discover cures and free our nation from diseases like cancer, MS, and all the other health epidemics ravaging families across our nation. As Nobel Laureate Albert Switzer so aptly put, 'When you lose respect for any part of life, you lose respect for all life.'
  6. John Deriso from Edmonton, Canada writes: It's amazing how up in arms people get about abortion. But the same people who cry about 'pro-life' would never dare lift a finger to help a living and breathing human being who needs help. Homelessness? Not my problem. Drug addiction? Must be something wrong with addicts. Abortion? NO! CHILDREN ARE PRECIOUS!!!

    The hypocrisy is astounding.

    First you make the world livable, then you eliminate the need for abortion in 99% of cases. Get on it. I'm sure most pro-choice folk can get behind that kind of attitude.
  7. Bert Russell Paradox, BC from Canada writes:

    Morgentaler survives a 'death camp' and becomes known as 'The Abortion Dr'... go figure. Where is the moral in his judgment?
  8. Gord Orr from Vernon,BC, Canada writes: I am so glad to be alive...
  9. Ricky for a Centrist Canada from Canada writes:
    anti-choice zealots = extremist losers
  10. J Lyn from West Coast, Canada writes: Thank God for Dr. Morgentaler! He deserves the award!
    How many more women would have died without his proper medical help. Luckily I have never needed an abortion, but he has helped many women at great personal expense...and I don't mean money! As for all the 'true christians' out there, it's none of your business if
    a woman is getting an abortion...or having a baby! None of you jump up to help single moms or dads raise their children.
    I am totally Pro-Choice and proud of it. A few years ago I went with a relative to a doctors office for her to have abortion consultation. The physicians name wasn't listed on the door or in the phone book. It's other doctors who know of these offices and there is secrecy about them. This is due to the fact they don't want their patients bothered or their offices trashed by the anti-abortion fanatics. I think it's sad when in this day and age in Canada, that someones personal safety is at risk because of other people trying to force their beliefs on others. Good for you Dr. Morgentaler for standing up for us women in Canada!
  11. robert quinn from Japan writes: Metzenbaums, stat!
  12. mynalee johnstone from saltspring island, Canada writes: I believe that if Jesus appeared today he would give his blessings to Dr. Morgentaler and SCOLD all the cruel and negative commenters for their lack of perspective and understanding of this issue.
  13. Judith Fitzgerald from Almaguin Highlands, Canada writes: For those of us who lived through the trials, tarnations, terrorisations, and tribulations Dr. Morgentaler endured, for those of us who marched in solidarity in support of our cause, for those of us who lost friendships because we believed in said cause, this honour could not have occurred at a better time (unless it had happened earlier in our history and the good doctor's life). If any single individual deserves to be recognised for their contribution to equality in this country, it is Dr. Morgentaler, a visionary trailblazer who changed the lives of millions of women for the better. He never preached abortion for abortion's sake; rather, and most importantly, he believed passionately in the right of each woman to choose what happens with / to her body. Choice! What a selfless gift he bestowed upon millions of human beings of both genders. In good conscience I can declare loudly and proudly, despite the fact I am both a Catholic and was an adopted child, praise God for Dr. Morgentaler's inestimable contribution to women's rights and health. Thank you for putting your life on the line for the betterment of humankind, Dr. Morgentaler. Some days, I am inexpressibly proud to say I am a Canadian; and, thanks to this honour being granted an individual truly deserving of it, this is one of those days. p.s. Mr. Deriso? You mention hypocrisy in your comment yet you fail to note the patently obvious hypocrisy I still see in our culture: It seems to me those who oppose a woman's right to control her person and future are, more often than not, the same individuals demanding the death penalty for those monsters among us committing heinously violent crimes (and, most often, the targets of the most egregious of those crimes are women, particularly ill, young, and / or disadvantaged women)
  14. The Globing Male from Formerly of Beantown, United States writes: 'mynalee johnstone from saltspring island, Canada writes: I believe that if Jesus appeared today he would give his blessings to Dr. Morgentaler and SCOLD all the cruel and negative commenters for their lack of perspective and understanding of this issue. '


    ...um, no.
    Obviously not a Christian.
  15. REV eighteenseventeen from Canada writes: John Deriso from Edmonton- You are wrong on many of your false accusations about many people. We all have to give an account for our own lives. Look after the log in your own before you go picking the speck out of your brother's John.
  16. REV eighteenseventeen from Canada writes: Ricky for a Centrist Canada from Canada writes:
    anti-choice zealots = extremist losers
    _____________________________________________________

    There has to be some law in this universe Ricky. Shall we let all the murderers run amok, hey just give them free choice. Think it through.
  17. FIGHT EVIL from CALGARY, Canada writes: Jesus would bless Morgentaler? If you read the Bible, Jesus defended children to come unto Him, not execute them in the womb. The Bible is very clear what judgment Jesus will give to murderers. The blood of hundreds of thousands of innocent children are on your hands Mrgentaler, and all your supporters. Repent now before the White Throne Judgement. This is your only (and my) only hope.
  18. Francesco Braga from Guelph, Canada writes: So this brilliant idea came from a church basement... well I guess they were reading from a different Bible, weren't they?

    Prhaps I am also a naive romantic, as I had a positive, solar, impresion of the OC... and what made a Canadian deserving of this recognition... obviously I was mistaken given the decision to celebrate someone who made terminating the existence of the weakest in society his life-long crusade.

    Pity the advisory committee decided to wilt the goodwill of the OC only to make a politically correct point, albeit just their own point.

    This decision is problematic beyond being pro or against Morgentaler.

    In my mind the more serious mistake is to have lowered the OC to another tool in the political arena... congrats: now we have changed a unifying honor into a divisive tool. Brilliant, simply brilliant! By the way: I am happy the two government appointed members of the cttee voted against this troubled and ill-inspired decision.
  19. retired Catholic teacher from Calgary, Canada writes: Once again most the men on this blog would rather that desperate women would have to go to back alley abortions, using coat hangers. Since when is the the life of the fetus worth more than the life of the a productive women. This is a woman's Health Issue not a Rights issue. 70,000 women die every year from unsafe and illegal abortions. Legalizing abortion does not increase the rate of abortions, in fact the opposite is true. According to the World Health Organization, the Nertherlands, which has the easiest access to free, safe abortions, has the world's lowest rate of abortions.
  20. Boomer AB from Canada writes: 'retired Catholic teacher' if you ever truly were a teacher God help your students. You know, the ones a few years before that weren't worth more than their mothers. Hitler, Menegle, Morgentaler, et al, must be very happy to have people like you on their side.
  21. weird world from Calgary, Canada writes: Hey Boomer...get yr facts straight....Hitler and Menegle were Social Conservatives who were Pro Life..which would put them on yr side... their claim to fame was the murder of 6 mil adults and children.....namely Jews, gypsies,gays and handicap people.
  22. Cut The Crap from Canada writes: .
    I have never had to make a choice about abortion.
    I am a man. I am a father, it was unplanned and I was single.
    I love my son more than anything in my life.
    I don't believe I would choose abortion, but I have never been faced with that choice.
    I advocate against abortion, but abortion should not be illegal.

    The court is not the place to fight against abortion. No-one wants to end a perfectly good pregnancy without reason. This is a problem with deep roots in every part of our culture. Roots in religion, marriage, politics, work life, it even strikes at the meaning of life. We should ask why a woman or couple wants to terminate a pregnancy. Why is termination more attractive than parenthood to a young couple? The answer would probably reveal inadequacies in our society.
    .
  23. Bob Cajun from the glorious nation of coboconk, Canada writes: John Deriso from Edmonton, Canada writes: It's amazing how up in arms people get about abortion. But the same people who cry about 'pro-life' would never dare lift a finger to help a living and breathing human being who needs help. ...

    and what proof do you have of that? Do you have some sort of analysis from Revenue Canada that 'pro-life' folk are more stingy when it comes to charitable donations? Do you have access to some secret CSIS file that 'pro-life' activists are less involved in social work or lobbying for the poor or downtrodden?

    And thanks to Cut the Crap.. my sentiments exactly. Back in my student days, a woman would lose her scholarships at U of T, lose her place in the program and be forced to start paying back on her student loans if she wanted to have her child. In such circumstance, abortion is not a choice - its an ultimatum.. and a crappy one at that. Sure, social services are better now and EI mat leave at 80% of wages for households under $24K/yr gross income is an improvement, but there is a still a long way to go before society truly offers a choice, and not an ultimatum, to any woman (or couple) who finds themselves in this situation
  24. Bob Cajun from the glorious nation of coboconk, Canada writes: Hey weird world, how can Hitler and Mengele be considered prolife when they were for the death penalty, euthanasia and eugenics? You cannot call yourself prolife and be for the death penalty. Its a contradiction, much like calling yourself a catholic and being for abortion.
  25. weird world from Calgary, Canada writes: Boomer, your spelling and grammar are atrocious and your history is suspect. Too bad you were not my student. It is never too late to learn.
  26. Beatriz Perez-Sanchez from Toronto, Canada writes: John Deriso, I find your statement just a bit faulty. There are many people opposed to abortion, both within the churches and without, who do great work helping the homeless, the addicted and other people with serious social problems. Many of them do so without attempting to impose their religion on the recipients of their aid. It is also not accurate to assume (as many do) that opponents of abortion are universally advocates of capital punishment. For many people, this is an issue of respect for life and a belief that we human beings do not have the right to take another life under any circumstances (with the notable exception of self-defense). The anti-abortion movement is a fairly big tent that includes people of all religions as well as secular humanists. It is completely inaccurate to define it as either 'right' or 'left' on the political spectrum as well.
  27. Boomer AB from Canada writes: No, weird world, they were members of the National SOCIALIST German Workers Party. Perhaps you need to read YOUR history books. And like a lot of socialists they were eugenics, just like Tommy Douglas, et al.
  28. B Mac from Roachvale, Canada writes: What is the origin of this wierd claim that abortion opponents won't adopt or help others. Every time the topic comes up, some leftist luminary reverts to this. 'Come on, John Derisio from Edmonton,' put up or shut up.

    Last time I checked, the Good Book said that someone who hurst a child would be better off to be thrown into the sea with a mill stone around their neck.

    Just because a jury wouldn't convice the 'Good Doctor' of his mis-deeds, doesn't mean he's innocent. Have you seen pictures of what he does????? We continue to have the same problem with OJ Simpson, don't we. The two of them belong in the same category.

    The Order of Canada has been mutted into a stage for political propeganda and patronage. We should all vomit.
  29. E. Biggs from Canada writes: Now I remember why I left this church. It is no longer a Christian church but a social activist group with church tax exemptions.
  30. Boomer AB from Canada writes: And weird world, they didn't disapprove of killing babies, they just disapproved of killing German babies. Sounds similiar to Mogentaler refusing to do abortions on Jewish women, don't you think. Exactly how you call genocidal mass murders 'pro-life' is a little scary; get help NOW.
  31. Judith Fitzgerald from Almaguin Highlands, Canada writes: The Bible is a glorious work of literature, nothing more, nothing less. To extract one sentence from it to justify an emotional argument is specious, IMO. The subject upon which this forum is based revolves around the terrific and overdue fact Dr. Morgentaler will be recognised for his contribution to health and humanity. Our Governor-General, Michaelle Jean, lauded Dr. Morgentaler’s 'commitment to increased health-care options for women, his determined efforts to influence Canadian public policy, and his leadership in humanist and civil-liberties organisations.' That is why he is receiving this important and deserved distinction; this is not a debate concerning pro-choice versus pro-life. That, Dear Readers, is a done deal and enshrined in our rights as Canadians. There are many individuals who feel Lord Black ought to be stripped of his OC; others consider it beyond the pale Jack Stoddart received one after he allegedly gutted Canada's publishing industry. This discussion should not be dedicated to the merits — for and against — of abortion; it ought to focus on the fact we are a large-hearted nation willing to recognise outstanding achievement regardless of the field in which the OC recipient worked or works, n'est-ce pas? How unfair to Dr. Morgentaler this seems, to me, to be; he deserves the honour because he deserves the honour. I like apple pie because I like apple pie. Can we rise above our personal prejudices and celebrate our differences as adults in this country? I hope and pray so. This is Dr. Morgentaler's moment in the sun; why anyone would attempt to block those rays is beyond me. If it's good enough for the Right Honourable Michaelle Jean, why can we not respect this decision and allow the Governor-General to get on with doing the excellent job she's clearly doing? No one is forcing anyone to have an abortion; and, conversely, no one is preventing anyone from so doing. End of story, thanks to Dr. Morgentaler. (cfsh.ca)
  32. David Gibson from Canada writes: Never in the history of public debate has their been a stupider weasel-term than 'pro-choice.' What if one 'chooses' to shoot one's parents or bomb a church: is that a matter of 'choice?'
  33. jan bakker from Canada writes: Same problem for thousands of years, back then many sacrificed there kids to apease the gods, now they sacrifice the unborn to please themselves.
  34. B Mac from Roachvale, Canada writes: Did you say, 'Day in the sun???'

    How about 'A day in the sun' for the thousands of nameless children who will never see the light of day, thanks to 'The Good Doctor's' disregard for law and life. Time to call a spade a spade, here.

    Did you say 'Contribution to health and humanity?' What disease did he cure?

    Henry's refusal to share his 'contribution to health and humanity' with Jewish women is the measure of his true opinion of his work. It smacks of elitism and racism. Juries make mistakes and Governor Generals make mistakes. Writing the 'Good Doctor's' name in the same book of other recipients of the Order of Canada' lessens us all.

    Certainly there are medical issues and faults in our society which cause some people to consider abortion. Let's devote our energy to solving those problems and changing those issues, instead of applauding as the Representative of the Queen dignifies the millions of needless deaths of unborn babies as a remedy to social inequity and inconvenience. That's just plain sick.

    The day Henry deserves this recognition will be the day O J Simpson deserves to be 'husband of the year.'
  35. joseph Cheng from Toronto, Canada writes: Former judge Claude Bisson now confesses when he presided over one of Dr. Morgentaler's trials, he practically asked the jury to find Dr. Morgentaler guilty. It really says a lot about the administration of justice by some judges and how much confidence we can place in our judicial system !
  36. Bob Cajun from the glorious nation of coboconk, Canada writes: geez Judith, how heartfelt. On that basis, are you not going to protest when someone like, oh I don't know, Jim Hughes, gets nominated for an Order of Canada?

    And Boomer, where the heck did you here that fact about Morgantaleur not aborting on Jewish women?
  37. Joe xyz from Canada writes: If I were a woman, I’d choose not to have an abortion, but I’m not a woman, and I respect that women should have freedom of choice on that issue. It’s confidential between the woman and her doctor, and therefore not my business. However, I’m not comfortable at all with partial-birth abortions, because they amount to infanticide, which involves killing a third person; then again, if a mother wants to kill her baby at birth, is it fair to force her to have it, and is it fair to send the baby “home” with the mother whose abortion request was denied? People who side with Robert Latimer seem to see that particular killing as an “abortion after the fact”, and probably sympathize with Doctor Kevorkian in the US as well. I have a problem with those who take killing so lightly, although I’m on the fence because I can see that there are reasonable arguments for extreme cases. Would those arguments have convinced Helen Keller? I doubt it. I think that giving Morgentaler the Order Of Canada is like giving it to Robert Latimer, or (if he were Canadian) to Dr. Kevorkian. It is too controversial, and is a case of radical “progressives” from one side of an issue hi-jacking the process just to rub it in the faces of those on the other side of the issue. I think that the Order Of Canada should only be given to those who have unambiguously made a positive contribution on a non-controversial issue, and it is sad to see it turned into a joke with the radical leftists snickering on the sidelines about how they exploited the system to stick it to the mainstream. It doesn’t exactly inspire me to wave the flag, and I’m glad I didn’t hear about it until after the Canada Day celebrations.
  38. siren call from Canada writes: OK, now someone else has posted the same thing.

    So, Boomer AB -- do you have a link to support your statement that Morgentaler will not abort Jewish babies.
  39. weird world from Calgary, Canada writes: Boomer...glad your reading up on the subject...your teacher would be proud...however...Morgentaler is an Aushwitz sirvivor...so lumping him in with Hitler and Mengele doesn't make too much sense...and Hitler's nazis drew their strength and policies from the right wing of Germany...Nazis were Social conservatives. encouraging women to stay in the kitchen and awarding Medal of Honor to wifes with 4 or more babies..the party name is a misnomer...like saying Progressive Consevative..doesn't make sense....
    Boomer your stripes are showing...saying Morgentaler would only abort gentiles....for shame...go back to school !!!
  40. Still Learning at 77 from Canada writes: I am terribly disappointed that Morgantaler got the order of Canada for the terrible things he has done to women and children. He has killed more people than some murderers an that's what I believe he is
  41. jan bakker from Canada writes: Love how the pro killers (opposite of pro life) refer to the slaughter of the unborn as a womans health issue. The fact is that a woman is at her optimum of health when pregnant, but its certainly not very healthy for the chopped up baby. The pro killers are exposing their wanton disregard for human life by their condoning of abortion. I cannot see how an alledged holocaust survivor, would stand for such murders, every survivor I've ever met has the highest regard for life at any stage..
  42. weird world from Calgary, Canada writes: Jan so you would rather have women die from illegal abortions, can see where you are PRO-LIFE! 70, 000 women do every year, but what the hell, they are mostly poor woman anyways, so less a drain on society.
  43. Rusty Brown from Cobourg, Ontario, Canada writes:
    `
    Congratulations to Dr. Morgentaler for being finally recognized for his work in reproductive choice.

    If God is against abortion, why is there no mention of this in the bible. The term does not even appear in your quaint old book.

    And please don't give me that 'Thou shalt not kill' argument. I will simply reply with 'Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women... Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children...' (Ezekiel 9:6 KJV) and much, much more.

    RB
  44. retired Catholic Teacher from Calgary, Canada writes: First of all Jan, he is not an alledged holocaust survivor, he is a survivor, secondly he probably learnt to be empathetic during those terrible years. A lesson too many of us never learn.
  45. Judith Fitzgerald from Almaguin Highlands, Canada writes: David Gibson, logical fallacies have no place in intelligent conversations, IMO, particularly those of the 'Post hoc, ergo propter hoc' persuasion (I believe this one's called). No offense, of course. And, of course not, Bob Cajun; why would I protest James Hughes receiving this honour if he'd earned it? To riff Voltaire, IOW, I may not agree with the guy's opinions and / or actions; but, I will respect the fact he is considered a worthy recipient of the OC (if it comes to pass, that is). If I recall correctly, doesn't Psalm 137 contain sentiments along the lines of dashing little ones against the rocks? (If I also recall correctly, King David did not write that particular Psalm.) Women's health? IF I were in a position where I had no option but to abort a pregnancy, I would much rather do so in an appropriate medical setting than be forced to submit to back-alley strategies that put all parties involved at risk (and, even those opposed to abortion agree, in some situations, abortion is the ONLY option for a woman). I am not speaking of my own experience; but, I do speak from first-hand experience concerning precisely this issue. To say more would compromise confidentiality; and, besides, nobody's on trial here; I am simply filled with joy (or thrilled to fitzbitz) that, for once, someone in our government got something right. Is all. Is enough.
  46. Slippery Slope from Canada writes: Joe V from Canada writes: .... In the meantime, why aren't you doing something as important in your life as he did in his?

    ----

    Like what? killing babies?
  47. jan bakker from Canada writes: Rusty Brown from Cobourg, Ontario, Canada writes:
    `
    Congratulations to Dr. Morgentaler for being finally recognized for his work in reproductive choice.

    If God is against abortion, why is there no mention of this in the bible. The term does not even appear in your quaint old book.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Wrong! on both counts, first of all morgentaler 'worked 'at killing babies, and secondly the bible has plenty to say about murder, see below one of many.

    There are six things the LORD hates,
    seven that are detestable to him:
    haughty eyes,
    a lying tongue,
    HANDS THAT SHED INNOCENT BLOOD
    a heart that devises wicked schemes,
    feet that are quick to rush into evil,
    a false witness who pours out lies
    and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.' [Proverbs 6:16-19]
  48. Boomer AB from Canada writes: weird world, I strongly suggest you pull your left wing blinders off.

    1. Fascism is just another type of socialism-state control of everything.
    You can run from your roots but you can't hide.
    2. Lumping him in with Hitler makes perfect sense. Both of them believe certain human life is unworthy of life. I would think a Holocaust survivor would grasp that.
    3. I would hardly call people who ran mobile killing operations for eugenics (HEY, why didn't Tommy Douglas think of that) and 'breeding centres' Social Conservatives.
    4. I have to laugh when people like you state 'This is a women's issue and men should have no say'. By that logic breast cancer is a women's only issue (very few men get breast cancer). Yet, they keep calling me for donations. Should I tell them to get stuffed 'cause, as a man, it's not my issue.
  49. Badges? We don't need no stinking badges from Canada writes: Morgentaler might merit an award or commendation of some kind, but certainly not the Order of Canada. For performing abortions? Yuk.
  50. Doug Edwards from rural, Canada writes: Don't tar all of us on the right with the same brush. I am a red neck conservative and proud of it. I admire the courage of Morgentaler and I agree with the view that each of us must have control or our own body and destiny. Not just us red neck men. Some day, hopefully soon we will have the same rights around ending our lives.

    Perhaps I have become a libertarian. The point where left meets right.

    I am happy that Morgentaler has the order.
  51. Doug Edwards from rural, Canada writes: Don't start me on Catholic dogma. Been there, done that. One of the reasons for overpopulation and enviromental devastation of our planet.
  52. jan bakker from Canada writes: Doug Edwards from rural, Canada writes:I am happy that Morgentaler has the order.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Many people during ww2 were also happy that hitler was killing the jews, after all, they also considered a jew to be non human.They were wrong! just as those who consider the unborn to be non human.
    Who knows, maybe this is morgentaler's way of revenge. Canada refused the jewish refugees during ww2
  53. Doug Edwards from rural, Canada writes: jan bakker

    Don't start me on Catholic dogma. Been there, done that. One of the reasons for overpopulation and enviromental devastation of our planet.
  54. jan bakker from Canada writes: Doug Edwards from rural, Canada writes: jan bakker

    Don't start me on Catholic dogma. Been there, done that. One of the reasons for overpopulation and enviromental devastation of our planet.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So the answer to overpopulation and polution then is to kill the undesirables? The roman Catholics dogma till after the middle ages, was to kill those who dared challenge their authority, esp. christians.
  55. Judith Fitzgerald from Almaguin Highlands, Canada writes: jan bakker? Sorry. Please forgive me. I'm not quite sure what your problem is; but, I am fairly certain it's difficult to pronounce. Not to worry. I'm already visualising you with duct tape wrapped 'round your tippy-tappers; so, sitteth thee down, taketh a load off thy mind; and, thanketh the lard, given said condition, you shall be able to economise by brushing with Prep-H . . . Do have a nice life and an even nicer afterlife. Ta!
  56. Doug Edwards from rural, Canada writes: jan bakker from Canada

    Love your attempt to dodge the issue of birth control. You know what I'm talking about.

    If we don't find a way to control the populations of humans on this planet the consequences are going to be nothing short of catastrophic.
  57. jan bakker from Canada writes: Judith Fitzgerald from Almaguin Highlands, Canada writes: jan bakker? Sorry. Please forgive me. I'm not quite sure what your problem is; but, I am fairly certain it's difficult to pronounce.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I.ll admit that my problem is with "Lies" as in those who defend killing the innocent with "lies". Its not really hard to pronounce,but I will forgive you anyway. The opposite of lies is truth, also not hard to pronounce. Can you say "truth", as in the "truth" about abortion is that" lies " are used to condone it.
    Thanks for wishing me a nice life, Millions were denied life, thru abortion.
  58. Doug Edwards from rural, Canada writes: Judith Fitzgerald

    You are a wit to be dealt with.
  59. Doug Edwards from rural, Canada writes: Judith Fitzgerald from Almaguin Highlands

    My dad (he paid for my education with his sweat) , poorly educated as he was, taught me several fundmental rules of life.

    One of those rules was: "Never get into a pissing match with a skunk."
  60. jan bakker from Canada writes: Doug Edwards from rural, Canada writes: jan bakker from Canada

    Love your attempt to dodge the issue of birth control. You know what I'm talking about.

    If we don't find a way to control the populations of humans on this planet the consequences are going to be nothing short of catastrophic.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Yeah I know what you're talking about, as I said before ,you"re answer for overpopulation is to use abortion as a birth control. Some countries such as china, use that method, and most consider them violators of human rights. Are you part of world overpopulation?
    Obviously your mom did'nt think so, are'nt you glad?
  61. Doug Edwards from rural, Canada writes: I have met the skunk.
  62. jan bakker from Canada writes: Doug Edwards from rural, Canada writes: I have met the skunk.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As in you've been skunked. Don't feel bad .Have a great Sunday.
  63. Rusty Brown from Cobourg, Ontario, Canada writes: `
    Priceless! Classic!

    `
  64. Templeton Jones from Windsor, Canada writes:

    The Order of Canada means far less than it use to. In my mind it's like giving it to a member of Hitlers Gestapo.
  65. Bert Russell Paradox, BC from Canada writes:
    These so called "enlightened women" met in a Church Basement ... it was probably cheaper than some others ....

    Morgentaler who survived a death camp apparently had no compunction about doing abortion ... when we don''t learn from history we are sure to repeat it.
  66. jan bakker from Canada writes: Judith Fitzgerald from Almaguin Highlands, Canada wrote:
    . Choice! What a selfless gift he bestowed upon millions of human beings of both genders. In good conscience I can declare loudly and proudly, despite the fact I am both a Catholic and was an adopted child, praise God for Dr. Morgentaler's inestimable contribution to women's rights and health. Posted 05/07/08 at 5:32 AM EDT
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    What about the selfish gift of death bestowed on the millions of aborted? They, would declare loudly that you have no conscience. Your catholic? check with the pope about abortion. I can assure you God is not praised by what morgentaler has done. Proverbs 6 says that one of the things that the lord detests is "hands that shed innocent blood". So go ahead, be proud that millions of innocents were butchered for the "health" and "rights" of women.
  67. REV eighteenseventeen from Canada writes: Rusty Brown from Cobourg, Ontario- You will not find one Bible believing, Jesus is Lord professing Christian that condones Morgentaler's actions. There is value in all human life, no matter the skin colour, language, tribe or nation. Every day you are one day closer to meeting your maker, and we all will whether you believe it or not.
    On a side note God through Jesus has mercy and forgiveness for all women that have had an abortion, that come to Him.
  68. Pete H from Canada writes: Does anyone know why the G&M pulled the results of their poll on whether readers agreed with the decision to award Dr. Morgentaler with the order of Canada? I remember the poll distinctly, and it just disappeared. What could possibly be the reasons for censoring that poll?
  69. Cut The Crap from Canada writes: .
    REV eighteenseventeen, jan bakker,

    How presumptuous and self-deluded you are to pretend to speak for God. This is one of the fundamental errors of self-important religious people. Speaking for god, even when quoting a religious text written centuries ago by other people who pretended to speak for god, is a supreme act of egoism.

    No religion or religious leader can speak for god. Like it or not, we are equals from the universe/god perspective, and your condescending lectures are of no import to man or god.
    .
  70. Rusty Brown from Cobourg, Ontario, Canada writes:
    `
    Thank you Mr. (or Ms. (?)) Crap. Excellent rebuttal.

    What I find so infuriating with religious zealots is their absolute insistence that we all conform to their narrow superstitious beliefs.

    RB
  71. Norm Albert from Canada writes: A couple of points not mentioned.
    1. If we recognise this individual for his relentless commitment to womens rights to choose(while making millions) should we also give credit to those who sacrificed so much to stop him. Those who bombed clinics and murdered providers without financial gain.
    I support neither!!!
    2. Abortion as a means of population control? I was not aware that Canada had a problem in that regard. In order to maintain our current population birth rate should be at 2.2% not 1.5%. Women will be most greatly effected as they tend to survive their male counter parts. Fewer Births to an aging gender. When do we start knocking off these old ladies because they become a burden.
    The flooding in the Mid west USA has little effect on the fires out of control in Cal. USA.
    3. Men and women start off every day as committed as this person to to their particular causes with no recognition for their efforts. Why is he so special.
    4. Mothers are very special.
  72. Norm Albert from Canada writes: Mind control is the reason for sensoring articals deemed as contriversial. It has been around for centuries. It is used by those already in control and those who wish to be in control by altering your views. This method of persuasion is sometime used to evade or omit actual fundamental realities. Also see "brain washing"
    Through omission you are given a heads up(so to speak) as to who is the bad guys(in black hats) and who are the Good guys(in white hats).
    When the powers that be decide to hide information from you it is for your own good! or so they say.
  73. George Erler from Lethbridge.AB., Canada writes: "Pete H from Canada writes: Does anyone know why the G&M pulled the results of their poll on whether readers agreed with the decision to award Dr. Morgentaler with the order of Canada? I remember the poll distinctly, and it just disappeared. What could possibly be the reasons for censoring that poll?"
    I was wondering that myself. I can only assume the results weren't going the way the G&M and their followers were wanting. The poll showed the vast majority were opposed to Morgentaler receiving the O of C award and wasn't confirming that 80 % of Canadians are pro-abortionists.
  74. Lorraine Singer from Anytown, Canada writes: Jan Bakker - “What about the selfish gift of death bestowed on the millions of aborted? “

    What about the selfish gift of death bestowed by natural miscarriages which are then flushed down the toilet.? By viewing these as lovely little tiny fully formed babies, you are simply painting a non-realistic picture of what is actually a few hundred cells that you yourself wouldn’t recognize if they were sitting on your nose.

    As far as quoting bible verses, Jan - try this one.

    “If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. "And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth . . ."--Ex. 21:22-25

    This is the only verse that deals with abortion in the entire bible, so you cherry pick elsewhere to support your own particular view, don’t you, Jan?

    The bottom line is if you don’t agree with abortion, don’t have one - but, don’t try to inflict your own particular view on the entire population of the country.
  75. Lorraine Singer from Anytown, Canada writes: jan bakker from Canada writes: Love how the pro killers (opposite of pro life) refer to the slaughter of the unborn as a womans health issue.

    Most often those who are pro-life are not pro-living. Note how Bush is pro-life but has vetoed free health care for poor children. He is also anti-stem cell research and would prefer to see the embryos incinerated rather than being used to benefit the living with conditions like multiple sclerosis. Again - pro-life but NOT pro-living. And yes, Jan, these are definitely a woman's health issue.
  76. jan bakker from Canada writes: Cut The Crap from Canada writes: .
    REV eighteenseventeen, jan bakker,

    How presumptuous and self-deluded you are to pretend to speak for God. This is one of the fundamental errors of self-important religious peple--
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    I would suggest you live up to your board name. Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of the bible knows that Christians are to proclaim Gods word , to stand for truth and justice and protect the weak and innocent.
  77. gordon smith from St. Thomas, Canada writes: An interesting debate!
    Fact: This man has emotionally scarred some women he is reported to have helped.
    Fact: For every woman this man supposedly helped, 1 Canadian child was killed.
    Fact: This man was one of the most divisive in Canadian history.
    Fact: To say "I deserved this award" shows no humility, only pomposity and arrogance.
    Fiction: This man deserved this award.
    Incredible: The planning for his nomination/appointment took place in a church basement.
  78. Badges? We don't need no stinking badges from Canada writes: Morgentaler refuses abortions to Jews
  79. jan bakker from Canada writes: Lorraine Singer from Anytown, Canada writes: jan bakker from Canada writes: Love how the pro killers (opposite of pro life) refer to the slaughter of the unborn as a womans health issue.

    And yes, Jan, these are definitely a woman's health issue.
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Is that so! Then being pregnant is a disease or illness.Sorry but the pro killers will have to come up with a better fallacy than that. A woman is at optimum health when pregnant. Lets call a spade a spade, the bare hard fact truth of abortion is that its the murder of an unwanted child. You can dress up a pig , but underneath all the covering, you still have a pig.
  80. Mike L. from Canada writes: gordon smith:

    Couldn't agree more. It does show one thing, the United Church has become nothing more than a soapbox for the current leftist cause du jour.
  81. Cut The Crap from Canada writes: Jan bakker

    The bible is not the word of god. It is only a work of man; and a work of man only partly about god, as understood by people many years ago. It is a book, only a book, and it can never be more than a book.

    In fact, if you must call something the word of god, then it must be every living thing. Even according to the bible, when god spoke, the thing spoken came into existence. So, every living thing is a word of god, even, ... or perhaps especially, morgentaler. To be more specific, a word from god is not anything like a word from man (as in the "written bible").

    Religious people are the most intolerant, inhumane, uncompassionate people on earth. Religious people are deceived by their own religion, and they cling to words in favor of their fellow man. Words they often don't even understand.

    The blind who "lead the blind" are in fact the modern Christians themselves who cling to the bible above the plight of the fellow human beings.
    .
  82. Demand Lustration, Resignations of Liliputs-in-Charge in Land of Moral Lilliputs from Toronto, Canada writes:
    From:
    [Polish Canadian, or Canadian Pole, from Toronto-Mississauga, prime witness of, and expert (and then some) on, Canadian Neo Fascism]

    To: chebert@thestar.ca
    Cc: ...

    Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008

    Subject: Re: Morgentaler is worthy of the Order"

    Dear Chantal:

    RE: "Morgentaler is worthy of the Order" by Chantal Hébert
    http://www.thestar.com/Canada/Columnist/article/454118

    In a land of moral Lilliputs, moral dwarfs are considered giants and your recent article can be read only in such terms.

    In September of 1939 war broke out in far away land. This war, as it progressed, engulfed almost entire World. Canada, then a British Colony, despite of remaining outside of direct hostilities put up the greatest military effort relative to its small population by raising half million strong Army of volunteers, men who sacrificed their lives to defend other people's right to live in dignity.

    In this far away land were the war broke out lived two young Jewish men (born less than four months apart) whose lives in a great extent were shaped by what happened to them during that war.

    One valued his freedom and his human dignity more than his life and as a result become a hero by anybody's standard.
    His name is Dr. Marek Edelman, recipient of Poland's highest decoration, the Order of the White Eagle.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marek_Edelman

    The other one valued his life more than his freedom or his human dignity and become a coward, and his name is Dr. Henry Morgentaler and he is a recent recipient of Canada's highest decoration, the Order of Canada.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Morgentaler

    Hero was eventually confined to Warsaw Ghetto ...

    ... to continue ...
  83. Demand Lustration, Resignations of Liliputs-in-Charge in Land of Moral Lilliputs from Toronto, Canada writes:
    part 2

    From:
    [Polish Canadian, or Canadian Pole, from Toronto-Mississauga, prime witness of, and expert (and then some) on, Canadian Neo Fascism]
    To: chebert@thestar.ca, . . .
    Sent: July 06, 08

    ... see part 1 07/07/08 at 12:19 AM

    Hero was eventually confined to Warsaw Ghetto where he decided to die with a gun in his hand rather than be stripped of his dignity and die as a Nazi slave in Auschwitz concentration camp. He become a leader in Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, was rescued by Polish underground, and subsequently fought in Warsaw Uprising. When the war was over, he studied medicine and became cardiologist who saved many lives while living and practicing in Łódź, Poland the birthplace of a coward.

    According to hero, the World is a dangerous place where the peace is a result of a constant struggle where good people keep evil people in check.

    Coward was hiding in Łódź ghetto until 1944 when he got captured by Nazis and was sent to Auschwitz concentration camp. After the war, the coward took advantage of the UN scholarship that was being offered to Jewish survivors. He went to medical school in Germany while living with a German family that was forced to house him under the programme. Upon graduation, the coward carefully picked his final destination and moved to Canada and started "practising" medicine.

    Canada was an ideal place for the coward to spring his wings as it never experienced horrors of a war but lost great percentage of its bravest men in war effort.

    After so many years in Canada, the coward realized that Canada was governed by Lilliputs so he hatched his evil plans of revenge for a torment that he experienced at Auschwitz. First he claimed that the Lilliputs were mistreating their women by punishing them for aborting their own babies. He blackmailed Trudeau the Prime Minister of Liliputs.

    ... to continue ...
  84. Demand Lustration, Resignations of Liliputs-in-Charge in Land of Moral Lilliputs from Toronto, Canada writes:
    part 3

    From:
    [Polish Canadian, or Canadian Pole, from Toronto-Mississauga, prime witness of, and expert (and then some) on, Canadian Neo Fascism]
    To: chebert@thestar.ca, . . .
    Sent: July 06, 08

    ... see part 1, 2 07/07/08 at 12:19, 12:26 AM

    Since Liliputs kept on backing down, the coward started to openly abort babies of Liliputs-in-Charge and eventually any babies of any Lilliput women on any whim she or her relatives could muster.

    Now, after all these years of mass murder of innocents, all cowards in this great land of ours want to celebrate life and achievement of greatest coward among them. How very fitting!

    Yes dear Chantal,
    Dr. Morgentaler, who never took up a fight when he had ample chance to do so, is "right" in his cowardly assessment that:

    concentration camps were built by unwanted children lashing out at their unloving parents, so the best way of prevention of another Holocaust is to kill them when they are small and defenceless, better still, kill them before they are even born.

    It is so sad nobody thought of that concept in what was then a Jewish city of Lódz in Poland, in fall of 1922, winter of 1922/1923 or even spring of 1923.

    Yes dear Chantal,
    You might as well go ahead and blame anti-abortion lobby and its all-or-nothing approach to the issue of abortion for the rise of the monster. If we were bit more accommodating, we for sure would have appeased Dr. Morgentaler and his ilk. We all should have follow the lead of Neville Chamberlain, the British Prime Minister, who after his meeting with Hitler in 1938, proudly proclaimed upon his return to London: "We shall have a Peace in Our Time".

    You might consult with your "hero" Dr. Morgentaler and ask him what he thinks of Neville Chamberlain's actions and get back to us with his answers.

    Sincerely,
    ...
    -------------
  85. Judith Fitzgerald from Almaguin Highlands, Canada writes: <*blush*> Your dad and mine have much in common, then, Doug Edwards. Mine, after twice earning the DFC flying three tours of duty during WWII, returned to Northern Ontario to devote his life to building and repairing boats, a true craftsman who took pride in his work and taught me how to apply a perfect coat of varnish as well as the way in which respect and tolerance for others' opinions and POVs reflects well upon a given individual; he was a true Liberal and, to prove it, he created a gorgeous 3' x 4' frame for a photograph of then-Prime Minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau that presided over our dining-room table throughout our lives together until he left us the day before our hero himself did (in 2000). My daddy was an extraordinary man who married an exceptional woman who devoted her life to nursing (d. 2004); together, this deeply caring couple adopted yours truly, rescuing me from a life of abuse, batterings, shatterings, and crime (since my biological monster didn't abort me because it meant she could not claim welfare on my head). I know how blessed I am; and, I thank Him every day for allowing me the privilege of saying I am the luckiest daughter on the planet. No pissing contest here; just an extension of what my parents taught me (that is, essentially, life is a gift as well as the fact we always and only attack ourselves first). Oh, for the record, BTW, one of my dad's best friends wound up being a *very* Conservative Premier of this province. Nuff said :).
  86. Judith Fitzgerald from Almaguin Highlands, Canada writes: Dear jan bakker: Thank you ever so very much for your endless drivelling of defreshingly dullicious dregma denouncing Dr. Henry Morgentaler's contribution to the rights of women these past few days. Let us now count the horseshoes on our ar$e$ your over-the-top argurant-o-rave exposes all that's suspect when it comes to ad hominem attack in lieu of acceptance of the fact Dr. Morgentaler has already truly and deservedly earned the Order of Canada bestowed upon him by our judiciously circumspect Governor-General Michaelle Jean (for his inestimable contribution to the health and humanity of all CIVILised Canadians). Regrettably, our country's so-called leader has already hired his new press officer; otherwise, jan bakker, ISTM you would foot the bill heading up the most backward-thinking PMO of all time. <*SIGH*> Perhaps, in the future, an opening may materialise in the Department of Neanderthalistic Inanities Unlimited; until then, however, we readers subjected to your triviata and tediosities may most assuredly take coldly twisted comfort in the fact we shall find ourselves getting lost in the sheer brilliance of your dazzling originality and sparkling expository vilifications. Oh, joy; oh, bliss, does it *ever* get any better than this? We can only hope, given the logical fallacies glittering all along your rarefied slippery slope. Praise The Nillogical Word (and, please, forgive me while I depart to wash my eyes out with derabidifying soap).

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