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Summer league

Michael Grange, July 7, 2008 at 1:11 PM EST

Summer league rosters out, and I bet you Joey Graham is going to be the oldest guy playing in Vegas as a 26-year-old, three-year NBA veteran.

With Carlos Delfino gone there is a need for someone to step up and give some depth at the wing spot in caseof an injury to Parker, Moon, Kapono, which is why the Raptors haven't yet given up on seeing more good Joey than bad. I predict Graham will post some huge summer league numbers and to kind of disappear when training camp starts. Another guy to keep an eye on is Daniel Ewing, the former Duke star by way of the Russian league.

The Raptors are looking for a biggish guard who can play both the one and the two to fill out thier 13th roster spot and Ewing might fit that bill. Also on the roster is Bosh -- Joel Bosh, younger brother of Chris -- who finished at Alabama State this spring. Based on his numbers I'm thinking this was kind of a courtesy to the family.
 
Anyway, no word on Hassan Adams yet.

Here's the Raptors release about summer league and the schedule:

The Toronto Raptors announced Monday an 11-player roster that will participate in the 2008 NBA Summer League presented by EA Sports. The Raptors will play five games at the Thomas & Mack Center and COX Pavilion on the campus of the University of Nevada-Las Vegas, July 12-19.

Highlighting this year's squad is the reunion of Oklahoma State teammates Joey Graham and John Lucas III. The All-American duo helped lead the Cowboys to the Final Four in 2004 and tied a school record with 31 wins.

Graham, who will be making his second appearance at summer league for Toronto, was drafted 16th overall by the Raptors in the 2005 NBA Draft. During three seasons in Toronto, Graham is averaging 6.0 points, 2.8 rebounds and 16.4 minutes. Lucas has played professionally with the Houston Rockets and Benetton Treviso (Italy).  

Also included on the roster are Hassan Adams, Deji Akindele, Rod Benson and Coleman Collins. All four players, along with Lucas, participated in the team's June free agent camp at Air Canada Centre. Joel Bosh, the younger brother of Chris Bosh, will make his professional debut following a four-year playing career at Alabama State. 

The Raptors will open Summer League action against Sacramento on July 12 (3 p.m. ET). The team is also scheduled to face Denver (July 14), Philadelphia (July 17), L.A Lakers (July 18) and Golden State (July 19).

Toronto is returning to summer league action for the first time since 2006 and the second time in Las Vegas.

2008 SUMMER LEAGUE ROSTER
(As of July 7, 2008)

Player                      Pos.       Ht.       Wt.      Birth Date       School/Country
Hassan Adams           F          6-4       220      06/20/84          Arizona
Deji Akindele               C         6-10     240      04/03/83          Chicago State
Sean Banks                F          6-8       210      01/20/85          Memphis
Rod Benson                C         6-10     235      10/10/84          California
Joel Bosh                    F          6-7       185      03/11/86          Alabama State
Coleman Collins         F          6-9       236      06/22/86          Virginia Tech
Daniel Ewing               G         6-3       185      03/26/83          Duke
Thomas Gardner        F          6-5       213      02/08/85          Missouri
C.J. Giles                    C         6-11     240      09/25/85          Oregon State
Joey Graham              F          6-7       225      06/11/82          Oklahoma State
John Lucas                 G         5-11     165      11/21/82          Oklahoma State

Head Coach – Sam Mitchell
Summer League Head Coach – Eric Hughes
Summer League Assistant Coach – Micah Nori
Assistant Coaches – Alex English, Jay Triano and Mike Evans

SUMMER LEAGUE SCHEDULE

Saturday, July 12        vs. Sacramento*         4 p.m. (ET)
Monday, July 14          vs. Denver*                 6 p.m. (ET)
Thursday, July 17        vs. Philadelphia*         8 p.m. (ET)
Friday, July 18             vs. L.A. Lakers^           8:30 p.m. (ET)
Saturday, July 19        vs. Golden State*        6 p.m. (ET)

* denotes game played at Cox Pavilion
^ denotes game played at Thomas & Mack Center

  1. ImTheOne TellingYouHowItIs from Canada writes: Forget Ewing. Unless he has significantly improved I am not so sure I would want him on this team, especially if Roko is on the way.

    The guys I like on that roster are Benson & Lucas, and of course Adams.

    Graham has got to go, when are the Raps going to realize this guy is a bust. Hopefully he has a huge Summer League and BC can trick some dummy into taking him off our hands.
  2. Khan dor from Canada writes: Joey Graham has been misused by the Raptors but do not make the mistake of thinking he doesn't have the tools to be a serviceable NBA player.
  3. Michael Enright from Toronto, Canada writes: Interesting that Chris Bosh's brother is on the team.
  4. J S from Canada writes: Definitely looks like Bosh's brother is there as a favour to him. 7 points and 4 rebs per game in a crappy D1 confrence.

    As cool as it is that he is there, they should have brought someone in with half a shot of making the team, unless of course there is no one to use.
  5. ImTheOne TellingYouHowItIs from Canada writes: Joey G a serviceable NBA player? Seems as though his brother, who is regarded as the better player, hasn't been able to become serviceable yet.

    I had a lot of hope for Joey G coming out of college and thought he was going to be a very solid player, more than serviceable. Unfortunately it doesn't appear he is going to live up to his billing. Serviceable is not good enough, and at this point I think even that is a long shot. High paid practice pylon is about all he will amount to.
  6. Big Cayman from South Toronto, Canada writes: Joey has the physical attributes and abilities to make an impact in the NBA and he has shown what he can do so in the past. He wouldn't have earned the split personality tag (Which Joey is going to show up) had he not played some very good game including a couple of games where he was the difference. He's better than his brother, let's not re-invent history here. I like Joey, unfortunately he has a couple of major weaknesses that he has not corrected: He does not assert himself in the game away from the ball. He relies on trying to establish himself by going in cold a taking a couple of quick shots, something that is easier to do in college, especially when you're a starter. Unfortunately for him he will only get more shots if he hits them, otherwise when he misses he is wasted space at the offensive end of the floor, and mentally his game never recovers. Secondly he does not play with enough energy to match his physical attributes (which is related to his first problem). He needs to run faster, and more often, whether that's getting to the boards, or taking it to the hole, he needs to establish himself physically, play to his strengths literally. He never adjusted his game coming from the NCAA. Will he ever do this I don't know but as time goes by it becames less and less likely. Very unfortunate for such a good guy. The coaches should run Joey into the ground in practice, same for Moon this year to the extent that they rename the 11 man drill Joey Moon.
  7. Big Cayman from South Toronto, Canada writes: Joey has the physical attributes and abilities to make an impact in the NBA and he has shown what he can do so in the past. He wouldn't have earned the split personality tag (Which Joey is going to show up) had he not played some very good game including a couple of games where he was the difference. He's better than his brother, let's not re-invent history here. I like Joey, unfortunately he has a couple of major weaknesses that he has not corrected: He does not assert himself in the game away from the ball. He relies on trying to establish himself by going in cold a taking a couple of quick shots, something that is easier to do in college, especially when you're a starter. Unfortunately for him he will only get more shots if he hits them, otherwise when he misses he is wasted space at the offensive end of the floor, and mentally his game never recovers. Secondly he does not play with enough energy to match his physical attributes (which is related to his first problem). He needs to run faster, and more often, whether that's getting to the boards, or taking it to the hole, he needs to establish himself physically, play to his strengths literally. He never adjusted his game coming from the NCAA. Will he ever do this I don't know but as time goes by it becames less and less likely. Very unfortunate for such a good guy. The coaches should run Joey into the ground in practice, same for Moon this year to the extent that they rename the 11 man drill Joey Moon.
  8. andy c from Canada writes: Carter has all the skills to be a HOF player just like Joey has all the physical attributes to play in the NBA for a long time. Some people are just not wired for professional competition.
  9. Yertu Damkule from Canada writes: so much wasted energy on JG. let's be honest...what is, in an absolute best-case scenario, his ceiling? an inconsistent starter at SF on a bad team, who's never figured out that his physical skills alone aren't enough to get by in the NBA, and that he actually has to a) try, and b) think. i don't think anyone would argue that a) or b) are his strong suits...or that he's got the mental capacity to realize it, despite how often it's repeated by the coaching staff. and how, exactly, has he been 'misused?' what a cop-out excuse. this is, as most expect, his last shot...he needs to impress during the summer league, stay focused during the remainder of the off-season & continue to work on his game, and come to camp with the intention of winning a position in the rotation. i don't think i'll be making any bets on the likelihood of that happening. truth is, he's got his $$, and i just don't get the sense that he cares all that much about being anything in this league other than a marginal role player on the end of the bench. everything about him screams, 'hey, at least i'm getting paid.' i guess i'm just cynical...but if he hasn't shown he has 'it' by now (and he's had plenty of opportunity), then 'it's' not gonna happen. i'm sure he'll have a good career in europe though.
  10. Khan dor from Canada writes: Being mis-used by the Raptors is not Mr. Graham's fault.

    With a coaching staff that knows how to use him better would shed a totally different light on the ability Joey G brings to the table in the NBA. Top notch coaching/GM'ing is a much bigger part of what it takes to be a first-rate player in this League.

    If you can't see accurately where a player's skills lie ... you have no chance of developing him as a solid serviceable player in the NBA (e.g. Toronto did not see correctly what they had in Chauncey Billups, nor Rafer Alston ... two very different sorts but both are unquestionably contributing players on good teams in the NBA).

    A major problem that MLSE has is that ... other than Cliff Fletcher ... there is no one in their organization with a tremendous eye for either NHL or NBA talent and the vision how to use players to their best advantage.

    In Life, everyone is given the same script, the difference is ... how you choose to read the words. :-)
  11. Yertu Damkule from Canada writes: khan - we've rarely agreed on much (anything?), so i'm curious to know what you believe to be the 'misuse' of JG? minutes? position? role? i agree, you never know what's in a player's heart/mind, what motivates him, etc....but it's usually pretty obvious (or should be obvious) what motivates coaches/GM's, and that's to win (well, we hope...). if that's the case, then they've used him in the best way they can think of to maximize the team's chances for success, and he's failed at every opportunity...and it's not like he hasn't been given multiple chances, at various positions/situations. although a physical marvel (there probably aren't a whole lot of guys who can match his size, strength & overall athletic ability in the league), as stated earlier, he just never seems to get it, regardless of what he's been asked to do.

    what do you mean 'everyone is given the same script?' grandiose sermonizing, meaning nothing.

    if he goes to another team once his raptor days are through & becomes a competent contributor, your theory will be proven, and i'll eat my shorts.
  12. andy c from Canada writes: ??? when chauncy was a raptor he had no intention of resigning with us and was throw in player in the mighty mouse trade. alston did not get along with carter and rose. babcock saw enough value to give him a decent size contract and i'd say he's earning his pay with the rockets
  13. One For All All For One from Canada writes: Isn't there a saying that "you can't fix stupid"? He just makes really dumb turnovers, he isn't really a play maker, he doesn't have good handles. Wasn't there a story last year about how he needed six dribbles to post up TJ Ford for christ sake? The guy is 26 years old, how much longer do we go on the potenetial game?

    What way has he been misused?
  14. andy c from Canada writes: One; i remember that story with ford. if joey can't post up the 6"1, 200 pound (generous on both accounts) PG with a history of neck injuries (who is trash talking him no less) JO will give him nightmares after practice. having said that it would be interesting to see how joey would do on a team like the T-wolves with 20 mins of PT per game.
  15. Yertu Damkule from Canada writes: he was getting ~ 20 mpg his rookie season...and almost 17/game his 2nd season...down to ~ 9 last year. his play has simply not warranted more minutes, be it his practice or game performances. the fluctuation in his minutes reflected the fluctuation in said performances, not vice versa.

    but hey, i'd like to see him getting 20 mpg with the t'wolves as well.
  16. H to the IMMO from Canada writes: I'm glad someone else wrote "he makes dumb turnovers" before me.

    The awesome thing about Joey Graham is that over the past 2 years he's led the team in bonehead moves and awesome dunks. Add in the fact that he looks like Panthro from the Thundercats (props: raptorblog) and he's entirely likeable as an end-of-bench player.

    What I don't get is dropping Delfino, who had a knack for picking up loose balls at important moments and hitting big shots. Maybe he got too much attention from the girls. Maybe basketball players shouldn't look like they're wearing mascara. Still... not quite sure why more people aren't pissed by his departure. (And don't give me the arcane NBA salary cap as a reason for anything. That's a played-out and irrelevant mode of basketball nerd explanation because it's increasingly irrelevant to the decisions teams actually make). I might guess that everyone is judging Delfino by the plays and shots he didn't make - but at least there was an EXPECTATION that he might pull it off.

    With Joey, it's just comedy. Ok not really comedy, more like a sitcom that needs to be cancelled.
  17. Khan dor from Canada writes: Many (most?) times players perform according to the roles they've been given. For example ... How many of you (or other NBA GM's for that matter) could envision a player like Bruce Bowen ever becoming what he's become since joining the San Antonio Spurs? My bet is ... not a single one of you, save perhaps for Big C. :-) With the right head coach, there is nothing Joey Graham has done in his first few years in the NBA, while being mis-used by the Raptors, to indicate he is incapable of being a serviceable NBA player, down-the-road, ala Bruce Bowen ... if given top flight direction/coaching. e.g. If you think Ima Udoka is a better basketball player than Joey Graham is ... or that Kelenna Azubuike (6-5, 220) is a better athlete than the Raptors' current forgotten man ... then, there is little more for me to say to you, re: Joey Graham. :-)
  18. Yertu Damkule from Canada writes: this should just be allowed to die...like joey's career. khan - still waiting on a fact from you (like, how he's been misused), but all we ever get is condascending double-speak. for every bruce bowen who pans out, there are thousands of guys who someone thought could be a legit player who didn't. and here's a shocker...in some of those cases, THE PLAYER JUST WASN'T THAT GOOD. sure, there are always guys, in every sport & in every league, who slip through the cracks, who aren't evaluated properly, who are ACTUALLY misused. but thinking back over the last few years, and the number of opportunities joey's gotten (as a starter, as a fixture coming off the bench, as a hustle guy, as a defender, as an energy guy, etc.), i can't recall any time that he's been able to string together enough competent games to warrant more chances. the facts are that while he's got great tools, he's simply not a good basketball player...far too mechanical, far too willing to allow himself to be taken out of possessions/games, far too disinterested far too often. it doesn't matter whether udoka is a 'better' bball player, or whether azubuike is a 'better' athlete, what matters is what joey graham is...or more importantly, what he can be. those other guys have taken the skills they have & made the best of their opportunities in their systems. JG's been given more opportunities to find success than most, and hasn't done much to give hope that he's on the cusp of anything but a career in europe. if there's been a 'misuse' regarding JG, it's the misuse of $$ used to re-sign him. but hey man, if you try hard enough, you can twist almost any situation to the outcome you'd like. and if you use pretty language, some people may even think you have a point. why don't you prove how brilliant you are, and let us know the busts & hidden gems from this past draft? or do you prefer to wait 10 years & then proclaim that you 'knew' player X would be special (or a bust)?
  19. the owl from Toronto, Canada writes: Good work, Michael. Will globesports.com be posting Summer League results?
  20. Khan dor from Canada writes: yertu, You have eyes, yet you cannot see. Ears yet you cannot hear. Hands yet you cannot feel. You are so intent on criticizing someone else who sees and presents their opinion in a different way than you you can't see the trees for the forest in front of you. For example ... the number of non-bruce bowens matters not, if you have the one bruce bowen. You, sir, have no idea what specific role(s) Joey Graham has been asked to play thus far for the Raptors, or how those roles may (or may not) have been presented to him. Fact is, neither do I. Fact is though, based on my experience, I can say with confidence that an athlete/character like Joey Graham - when he doesn't succeed in his chosen field of work - does so primarily because he has yet to be coached/mentored in THE way he needs to be in order to best use his skills. This is not his fault. What Joey Graham needs is to find the right coach to fit what he brings to the table. If not, he too will not succeed like so many other talented NBA players before him unfortunate enough to be caught in this specific type of situation. Fact is ... the majority of NBA fans, coaches and executives and are exactly like you, yertu ... which is why, in part, so many talented players end up not succeeding. :-)
  21. Yertu Damkule from Canada writes: i'm not critical because an opinion differs from my own, nor am i critical because you're sooooo condascending...i'm merely wondering what ways JG's been misused...all those pretty little words of yours, and none really mean anything, because there's no substance behind the style. please, enlighten us simple-minded tools, genius. i mean, you obviously have greater insight than the rest of us (why, i can't even see, despite these eyes). it's a bit of a cop-out though, isn't it, to claim that joey's failures are not his own, that they are due to coaching/misuse...it's not as though such a theory can be disproven; he's more than likely going to continue to fail until he drops to a level of competition befitting his skill / mind-set, yet the argument could continue to be brought forth that it's due to poor coaching, misuse, etc. and i'm pretty sure we've all seen, over the last 3 years, what roles joey's been asked to play for the raps. while there have been moments which have been excellent, they have generally been few & far between. consistency is the key, and that goes to mental acuity & preparation, something that, unfortunately, management can control only so much. he's a grown man, if he doesn't have the wherewithal to understand what he needs to do game in & game out by now, he's more than likely never going to, regardless of how he's used. pick a team w/ 'brilliant' coaches that wouldn't 'misuse' him, and i feel he'd be just as big a disappointment there as he has been (& will be) here. and i'm pretty sure it's 'can't see the forest for the trees.' but whatever. and while i may not be able to see, or hear, or feel, i can still smell the BS...
  22. Khan dor from Canada writes: yertu, I wrote "can't see the trees for the forest" ... for a specific reason. Do you think I make accidents like that? :-) Think about what I actually wrote, not about what you thought was right, or what you expected to read, and you MIGHT take a step toward understandaing better what you're reading ... and/or smelling on this blog from me. :-) A noteworthy football coach by the name of Bill Walsh once said something along these lines: "Good coaching takes a talented player who is capable of the spectacular play once in a while and converts this inconsistency into consistent greatness." In fact, the exact opposite of what it is YOU stated YOU believe ... i.e. that's it up to the player himself to develop consistency. The sad fact is ... you don't have a clue when it comes to understanding what it is an elite level player needs in order to succeed and, frankly, I no longer have the time or the inclination to bother teaching YOU a thing or two further. YOU think I'm condescending. So be it ... cause YOU said so. There's a 2000 character limit to the messages on this board and I'm not smart enough to SHOW you all the ways or just how JG's been mis-used since joining the Raptors organization in the limited space here. Let's just say that YOU are right and I am obviously wrong. Have yourself a great day!
  23. Yertu Damkule from Canada writes: 5 post entries X 2000 (allowed) characters/post = 10,000 allowed characters in which you could have posted *ONE* salient *FACT* of how JG's been misused...yet nothing, but your typical babble. oh well. i'm sure this'll be an interesting season, and i'd like nothing more than to see joey become at least a competent contributor to a successful team. i'm also sure that no matter what the topic is, if i have one opinion, you are sure to have differing one (& vice versa). the only thing i'd ask is that if you don't actually know someone, don't assume to know them based on their posts here. you don't know me, what level of competition i've played at, my education, my values, where i'm from, what i believe, etc....and i don't know any of those things about you. despite what you may think, i do respect that you have an opinion, though i may disagree with what that opinion actually is....not just because it's different than my own, but because i don't see any evidence backing it up. it must be my vastly inferior understanding of...things. i hate using consensus to make a point, but i can't think a single person, be it a poster on this site, the star, any of my friends that follow the team, any of the guys i play ball with, any reporter/blogger, who's ever indicated that JG's failures are due to 'misuse.' not that there isn't any truth to that possibility, but to make it a fact, like there is no other possibility, just seems like a reach. like you're trying to be the one person bold enough to make that statement, with the hope it pans out, so you can proclaim yourself a genius. as for the forest/trees...i understood what you were trying to say (being all clever & flipping it like that...too damn cool), but i think the original saying works better in this situation - that we're focusing on a veeerrrry minor detail (a tiny little tree) in JG, and losing focus on what's really important (the team/forest). but i must be wrong.
  24. Khan dor from Canada writes: yertu, yes, you are wrong (re: the tree & the forest) ... because you are not looking at the situation from the perspective of the tree. Hopefully YOU can get that NOW. As well, 5 x 2000 is irrelevant ... cause each of the follow-up posts to the original have been diverted to tangents you've created by your own inability to ask a pertinent question to better understand that which you don't understand to begin with ... rather than a question which seeks to poke a whole in someone else's viewpoint which disagrees with yours. Proof? You are someone who thinks that 'stats' can explain the rightness/wrongness of an opinion about a sport like NBA hoops ... and that 'concensus' has some type of value in this world. LOL. Was their concensus when Columbus set sail for the as yet undiscovered Americas? Or when Bill Walsh took his 49ers from worst to first in the NFL? Or when when Phil Jackson first introduced his notions of Zen to the Chicago Bulls? Concensus is for losers, ny friend. Original thought ... which connects an apparent divergence of perspective is where truth lies, not in the simplistic regurgitation of 'facts' after the cow has already left the barn. You think 'pretty words' are meaningless ... without "proof" and that it is only luck when the pudding of the future coincides with a mere 'opinion' expressed elsewhere, in advance. Joey Graham is a talented athlete who is being misused, as Rafer Alston was before him, and as Chauncey Billups was before lucking into Larry Brown & Joe Dumars in Detroit, etc., etc., etc.. Top tier coaching is one of the elements that separates the great teams from everybody else cause it can see a Diamond-in-the-Rough that no one else can assess accurately, regardless how hard others try. Has Joey Graham asked to be traded? Has he created any problem for himself off the court? Has his level athleticism decreased with his lack of court time? Have his skills declined? No, no, no & no. Joey's problem is coaching based, nothing else.
  25. Yertu Damkule from Canada writes: joey's problem is joey based, and until you give me something substantive to work with, that will continue to be my opinion. you're welcome to yours. joey has not asked to be traded - because demanding a trade would mean that he believes he has been misused, and has the talent to shine in another situation. he's content where he is, because he knows that any expectations of him have worn away over the last few years, and that if he produces at even a mildly competent level, it will be seen as a breakout for him. no, his level of athleticism has not decreased, but jeez, he's 27, and his ride in the NBA has been pretty easy so far, so i'd hope not. no, he's not created any problems off the court. by all reckoning, he's a model citizen. no, his skills have not declined. not that there was much room for decline... i think it's time we put this to bed. no matter what i say, or what you say, we're not going to agree. i'd prefer if you didn't continue to insult me, but if that's what you feel you have to resort to, so be it. i'd suggest we start this little debate up every few weeks once the season starts, so others can way in. of course, what everyone else thinks is silly, right?
  26. Khan dor from Canada writes: yertu, point out one instance where I've insulted you. :-) Yes, support from others, in the form of concensus, is irrelevant. At one time, everyone else in the NBA community thought that Bruce Bowen didn't have what it takes to play successfully in this League, except for the San Antonio Spurs. Turns out that Coach Pop/RC Buford was right; everyone else was wrong. The same thing could be said for other men like Mario Elie, Michael Cooper, Kurt Rambis, Ben Wallace, etc. There's a reason Haffa Araujo is out of the NBA, never offerred a 2nd NBA contract and Joey Graham is still employed as a player in this League. To this point, Joey Graham has been misused by the Raptors and when/if he is fortunate enough to find himself in a situation where he receives the type of coaching which he needs to flourish then he is going to succeed as an NBA player. In general, the type of coaching most players receive in basketball, including in the NBA, is strictly second rate ... which is, in part, the reason so many super-talented players fail to maximize their ability at this level of competition. An outstanding coach would be able to do this for someone with the attributes of Joey Graham. :-)
  27. Yertu Damkule from Canada writes: 'yertu, You have eyes, yet you cannot see. Ears yet you cannot hear. Hands yet you cannot feel.'

    'The sad fact is ... you don't have a clue when it comes to understanding what it is an elite level player needs in order to succeed and, frankly, I no longer have the time or the inclination to bother teaching YOU a thing or two further.'

    'each of the follow-up posts to the original have been diverted to tangents you've created by your own inability to ask a pertinent question to better understand that which you don't understand to begin with ...'
  28. Edwin Green from NS, Canada writes: Joey G was on the dl for some time last year if I remember right then he never played all that much why not a time in the d league to get in playing shape I dont think the D league is used enough it should be used for rehab more
  29. Khan dor from Canada writes: yertu, there are no insults towards you in any of those 3 comments. :-)

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