Skip navigation

 Login or Register | Member Centre

A time to sever parental ties

JENN GEAREY

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 3:43 PM EST 13/08/08

It's never easy to cut the cord - especially when it's mom or dad who needs to go ...Read the full article

This conversation is closed

  1. kirsten nash from Canada writes: I am now 47 years old and finally severed ties with my mother for good about a year ago after years and years of mini separations, longer separations and the emotional rollercoaster that went with them. I have children and when they were old enough to discuss the situation, I told them as kindly as I could about why I have no relationship with my mother, making it very clear that if they wanted to explore a relationship with her, I would facilitate it. They have chosen not to at this point. My mother should never have been a mother. In our society we generally accept when a father is a 'deadbeat' but when we cut our mother out of our lives for the same reason, there is a certain stigma that we live with...surely a mother can't be so bad so as to deserve to be permanently sent packing. I have met only 2 other people who have been pushed to the same tipping point and it was such a relief to finally not feel alone in my situation. There's not enough room here to go into details about why I made my ultimate decision to live my life without a mother except that I never had a mother. From the beginning I was the mother! The easiest way I explain my mother is that she is like a child who sees a candy jar on the top shelf in the kitchen, wants the candy, climbs up to get it, smashing everything on the other shelves on the way up, then reaches into the jar trying to take too much, gets her hand stuck, then looks back at the destruction all around her and starts crying 'Who made this mess?' It got to the point that I would become physically ill when she called. So many times I hoped for the best, so many times my hopes were smashed. In the end I realized there was only one choice, and so, after all the years of emotional abuse, manipulation, drunken tirades followed by sanctimonius use of religion as a weapon, not a tool, I decided to be my own mother and love myself enough to let go of the woman who gave birth to me. Motherhood is earned, not a byproduct of birth.
  2. Nature Lover from Canada writes: The only problem with this strategy is that this is what your children learn and they might be compelled to treat you the same. My mother left her mother at home in the old country, and to me, leaving my mother behind was a totally natural occurance. I don't think my mother counted on that, as she thought her children would stay by her side FOREVER, but we learned from her, to leave our parents behind. JMHO.
  3. Globular Cluster, a Cdn from United States writes: Dear Nature Lover, my experience has been exactly the same as yours as you describe it. I am certain that I don't want kids though...it's too hard to let go of all the generations of accumulated emotional turmoil. Despite all the progress in education, providing opportunities for social mobility, etc our advanced society has made, family history plays a very strong role in shaping the course of our lives.
  4. steve iwan from calgary, Canada writes: Kirsten; You are right to do what you have done with your mother.In our society we believe in motherhood as something absolute.Thankfully,most of the time it is true.I was married to a troubled woman for 30 years and had 5 children.I thought with love and kindness I could change her but she never faced her troubles and one day I got a note sayin she was leaving and didnt want the kids.Ive had them now for 10 years and the heartache ive watched them go through is heartbreaking.She has no time for them because she needs a man to pay for her lifestyle.Weekly visitation?weekends with the kids?Birthdays?Christmas?Holidays?Never happens.My kids are adult now and want nothing to do with her.The only thing we can do,Kirsten, is love them and show them a better way.
  5. Do B from Mourial, Canada writes: Kirsten, I totally understand what you mean about feeling physically ill whenever your mother called; it's the same thing for me.

    What the story doesn't address, which i would have found interesting, is how to manoeuvre in a realm where a sibling chooses a different way of dealing with things. My younger brother, who just moved in with me after basically being (finally) abandonned by our parents, has decided to maintain contact with them despite it all. While i admittedly have more of a bone to pick with my father than he does, having spent the better part of my life shielding both my brother and myself from our father's abuse, my brother just gets stoned, then deals with my father. Which means that despite my cut off of more than a year, with the arrival of my brother comes the arrival of my father. While I suppose I commend my brother for maintaining ties with my father (even if totally stoned, which I don't do), I can honestly say I have tried, numerous times, and been hurt.

    So now what? Well, caller ID ('you answer; I'm not here') and changes of topic, but I'm so exhausted.

    Ah, life.
  6. Mike Witcher from montreal, Canada writes: My God man! Kristen, I am at work. Can you paraphrase the story of your life to haiku form so I can read it?
    'Not enough room to go into details'??? A post shouldn't be more than 4 lines.
  7. Chrissy Simon from Canada writes: This is a very sad situation. Parents are supposed to love their children and want the best for them. I have a great deal of sympathy for anyone put the in the position that Kirsten (above poster) was. I can't even imagine the pain involved.
  8. Mike Witcher from montreal, Canada writes: Chrissy Simon,
    Great comment. Thanks for understanding the 4 line rule.
  9. this is just my opinion from Canada writes: Mike, if there was a 4 line rule then this box I'm typing in wouldn't hold so much. You may be at work (I am too, but I'm on lunch) but others are not and clearly some found Kristen's sad story interesting and relevant, including Chrissy Simon whose response you commend for its brevity. How would Chrissy have responded without Kristen's whole story? Your comment makes little sense, except to you.
  10. Kay A from Canada writes: I think the key is when your parents realize it wasn't all roses for you as a child. When they finally take your feelings into account and say 'I'm sorry I had no control over what was happening' (true in our case). It doesn't make it perfect but it can make it okay. I don't think I could rate my life compared to the above posters but I'll say the mother I have now is not the same woman who raised me...she's turned out pretty good. So I haven't had to cut the cord, a few strands have worn but it's still pretty strong.
  11. The Baer from from Burlington, Canada writes: Thank you Kirsten for sharing your painful story. You are not alone. My mother is a monster and it's been six years since I last spoke to her. Probably the six most peaceful of my life. I too am a mother and make a conscious effort every day to treat my daughter differently than my mother treated me. My mother even said to me once, 'one day she'll treat you the same way you treat me.' I told her 'that would never happen because she didn't have you as a mother.' She's gone but not forgotten...
  12. Notapseudointellectual . from Canada writes: Good to know I'm not alone. Sometimes your parents don't have to be drunks to act horribly. I'm not sure if I want children because I'm terrified of any baggage I might pass over to them unintentionally.
  13. Mike Witcher from montreal, Canada writes: Fine. I read the 1st post during a brief lunch.
    Here's how I would paraphrase.

    I reluctantly and sorrowfully broke ties with my mother.
    She was an abusive deadbeat.
    It breaks my heart.
    How will my children comprehend they have no grandmother?!

    4 lines. It's not a rule. Just that it's difficult to hold
    people's attention for long periods. Just ask the fine folk at Readers Digest.
  14. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Kristen Nash, your mother sounds like a total sociopath, and a narcissist to boot. Such people are incapable of empathy, sympathy, guilt, remorse, or any feeling that would require a conscience. Because they don't have a conscience. And they never will have one. Life with them is a living hell. And if I'm right about your mother (and I only know what I read from your comment) then you did exactly the right thing by cutting her off. There is simply no way to rehabilitate a person who has never developed a conscience.
  15. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Mike Witcher,
    If you can't focus for more than four lines,
    Then you have....
    .... a serious attention span problem.
  16. The Baer from from Burlington, Canada writes: Alistair McLaughlin -- ditto!
  17. Katie K from Canada writes: ...Still, I wouldn't mind if people employed paragraphs when writing something long... same goes with emails... but I am still very thankful to all who have posted here for their stories.
  18. Mike Witcher from montreal, Canada writes: Allistar,
    Haha. I had quite a laugh at your post. My problem (and others) is that I am at work so I read during short breaks. I have noticed in the comments sections that long posts often go without any comments directed towards it. This 1st post is an exception. I'm not trying to be rude.
    D'oh. I broke my rule.
  19. h s from Canada writes:
    Kirsten. This book may be helpful for you to understand what you have been through:

    Christine Ann Lawson
    Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship (Paperback)
  20. ERIC MICHOT from montreal, Canada writes: Emancipation :
    Emancipation is not the right word as I am already adult and search for independence and freedom.
    This declaration has become necessary for my mental health. I have reached the age of 48 years young without ever receiving the approval of my family.
    I am a good person.
    I am intelligent and have succeeded in my studies.
    I have a career I am very good at and my services are in demand.
    I am bipolar.
    I have seen the edge where death winks at you and resisted.
    I have tried relationships but am unable to maintain them.
    I am gay, which in my mind is neither here nor there.
    I lead my life with honour and respect.

    None of the above has ever been acknowledged by my family.

    I will not fit in the box they want me to be in.
    I will not hide who I am because they are embarrassed, ashamed or feel guilty. That is not my problem.
    I will no depend on their vision and evaluation of me to determine my self-worth.
    I will bear my burdens gracefully and know that nothing can stop me.

    I am proud of who I am, have become and can be.
    I would not change a thing about me ( gay or bipolar ) as the lessons learned have been life changing in the most positive way.

    I give birth to myself, whole and healthy, happy and sad but mostly independent.

    Thank you for the gene pool as nothing else you have done has had positive impact on me.

    I am fully independent, I am whole and I love life.
    Eric.
  21. Still Canadian from Tokyo, Japan writes: In an instant one can become a parent.
    It takes a life time of blood, sweat, tears, energy and love to be a Mother or Father.

    "Cut" if the parent if that is all they are.

    Be aware that you cord will never be fully severed, the link will always remain, but what that link is is up to you.
  22. Mike Sun from Canada writes: It's really shocking to me: on the surface, west people are so friendly to each other and appear very kind to each other in places like shopping center, offices, working place, etc. But deep down, it would be so bad - 50% couples divorced despite their gorgeous wedding (it's like a joke in the end, isnt' it?). Family member hurt and kill each other. Kids got drowned in bathtubs... It's hard to understand for me.

    In China, things are opposite. People in China are not that friendly to outsiders such as strangers, co-workers, etc. However they are loyal to their own family - to their parents, siblings. Chinese parents are so good to their own children.
  23. Ella ann from Canada writes: I am disappointed that the writer of this piece claims to have all the explanations for a child severing ties with a parent. I would ask that she research the characteristics of Schizoid Personality Disorder. This is widely believed to be an inherited condition whereby the individual with SPD has an overwhelming desire to be free of close relationships. We adored our child for all the years he was with us and he felt compelled to cut off contact with almost all friends and family. There are many like him. Most are male and highly individualistic and intelligent.
  24. victoria m from Toronto, Canada writes: Sure, there are many Chinese parents that were good to their children. There was also a whole group of parents about 10-20 years ago in China that weren't so good to their own children. Or I should specify, not so good to their female children. So they sent them to run down orphanages, left them to die, or aborted them only because of their gender. That's why we have a whole generation of young adults right now that is completely imbalanced in regards to the male/female ratio. Let's not generalize and pretend one culture or race is better at parenting than another, shall we?

    As stated before here, just because someone can biologically produce a child does not mean they are ready or able to care for and raise a child in a healthy and loving way. People screw up and people can be completely incompetent at tasks. Once you hit a breaking point, all you can do is walk away.
  25. victoria m from Toronto, Canada writes: Ella ann from Canada writes "I am disappointed that the writer of this piece claims to have all the explanations for a child severing ties with a parent. I would ask that she research the characteristics of Schizoid Personality Disorder."

    No, I don't think the writer is claiming that she knows all the reasons for severing ties with a parent. Nor is she always blaming parents for the cause of the rift. The point of the article was to explain how sometimes children need to cut ties with bad parents. She did not state "whenever parental-child relationships are severed, it is always the parents fault". She only says that when a parent is abusive or completely unable to function as a healthy or even just neutrally impacting parent, then a child may need to cut ties.
  26. Mike Sun from Canada writes: victoria m from Toronto, Canada, has jumped to conclusion: Mike Sun has claimed that "One culture or race is better at parenting than another".

    I don't know what happened in China 10-20 years ago about parents who were "not so good to their female children..." I don't know who those parents were.

    I'm not concerned or interested about Chinese population "imbalance".

    I'm comparing the western parents here (mostly highly educated) with the Chinese parents who live here and mostly are also highly educated. I'm talking about their devotion to their children.

    Many western parents' behaviors to their own offsprings are hard for me to understand and are distainful.

  27. Jane Doe from Canada writes: Mike Sun: "distainful"? Does that mean "full of distance"?
  28. Jim Mohagan from Funkytown, Canada writes:
    Mike Sun from Canada writes:
    "I don't know what happened in China 10-20 years ago about parents who were 'not so good to their female children...' "

    What? You come on this site criticizing Canadian parents and you admit you don't know anything about Chinese parents leaving their female children in orphanages to die or aborting them because of their gender only a decade ago? You should learn about your own society before you presume to judge others.

    "I'm comparing the western parents here (mostly highly educated) with the Chinese parents who live here and mostly are also highly educated. I'm talking about their devotion to their children."

    No you weren't. You said: "In China, things are opposite. People in China are not that friendly to outsiders such as strangers, co-workers, etc. However they are loyal to their own family - to their parents, siblings. Chinese parents are so good to their own children."

    Why are you lying to cover up your original comment? Or was that a slip-up and 'Mike Sun from Canada' isn't even in Canada?
  29. Ella ann from Canada writes: Victoria M from Toronto replied that she doesn't think the author is presenting the reasons for a child breaking ties with a parent.

    The author writes:

    "Reasons for a break include a parent competing with a child's spouse for affection; trying to control the adult child, and harassment of an adult child by a substance-abusing parent.
    Another key reason for separation is abuse - physical, emotional or sexual - past or present.
    Sometimes the reasons spring from deep in the past."

    Sounds like a list to me. One that does not include an important alternative explanation. Poor research in my opinion.
  30. ann bradley from United Kingdom writes: I have found this article very interesting because my daughter has now severed her relationship with me for the third time in her 37 years. Her usual ploy is to move house without telling me and so I am then left to find her, which I have always done. Her siblings have now been banished from her lifeand the latest to be banished is her father's widow, who has a close relationship with her. She severed her relationship with her father years ago, even though I did all I could to encourage her to keep contact with him, but she finally decided to give it a go during the last year of his life when she renewed that relationship and visited him every month until he passed away. Added to the list of those who are banished are her new her very nice in-laws, who are now also banished from seeing their son. Although a single parent for many years, I consider I was a good parent and above all else I always loved my children and devoted myself to them completely. I was not given any financial or emotional help from their father, as he chose to have minimal contact with his children. My children have had good jobs, one being a tornado pilot, another an IT wizard and have never been in trouble with the law. Because of many difficulties with my daughter I have apologised to her many times although I have absolutely no idea why she has behaves as she does to all and sundry and why she has such a hatred of me. I am not permitted to see my grandchildren, as is the case with her new in-laws. I can't work any of it out and after much abuse by my daughter which has been mind-blowing I have decided to let go, much to my dismay because I will always love her and miss her.
  31. Chris Williams from Canada writes: This isn't a story about adult children who sever ties with their parents. It's a story about children of divorce who severed ties with a parent and later tried to reconnect and couldn't. There is no doubt that divorce is hard on the kids. What is amazing to me is that the kids were permitted to sever ties at all while they were going through a hard time. Where was the other parent? I have to wonder if perhaps this should have been a story of parental alienation and its long lasting affects on relationships.

    Personally, I am tired of people blaming everything that is wrong with their lives on their childhood. It is such a cop-out. As children we rarely understand the world. We haven't yet developed the maturity and the emotional and cognitive ability to truly understand everything that is going on around us. Yet for some reason we hold on to incidents that we perceive happened a certain way and bring that forward and allow it to negatively affect every aspect of our adult lives. It never occurs to us that we may be wrong; that we may have a completely incorrect understanding of what happened. And yet we will not accept that we are worng for to accept that we may be wrong means to accept that everything that we understand is wrong. It means that we have to accept that the problem is with us and not the other person and heaven forbid that we obtain that level of self-awareness.
  32. A C from United States writes: Chris Williams: This story isn't only about children of divorce. While the author takes into account the trauma of childhood experiences with physical, emotional and sexual abuse, you seem to dismiss this entire line of her argument by saying that you are tired of people blaming their childhood experiences for what's wrong in their life. Speaking as a child of divorced parents and as a survivor of all of these types of abuse, these experiences do indeed "negatively affect every aspect of our adult lives." It is sometimes necessary to sever all ties to toxic relationships in order to rebuild some semblance of a life.
  33. Paul G from Toronto, Canada writes: I have a message for Mike Sun from Canada:

    My brother married a woman from Asia who let it be known to me that her culture was such that people in communities help each other, especially among family. She then extended this philosophy by intruding in my business and my wife's repeatedly although we would change the topic each time.

    I was concerned that she was digging for information to give my estranged father (because he had controlled my mother to the point of malnutrition). After I cautioned my brother they no longer speak to us. Where's that communal and family spirit now?
    ...
  34. Umm... Toronto from Canada writes: Oh my gosh, this story doesn't exactly descirbe my situation, therefore it's horribly written and researched. Oh my gosh, some one is making me read a really, really, long comment. I don't have time for that! I'll write a few comments to complain.
    Most of you posters are pathetic, self interested, fools.
    There are bad parents out there. Sometimes those parents are so bad that the only healthy decision their children can make is to cut all ties. Why is this hard for so many people to understand?
  35. S Young from Canada writes: This article has clearly sparked quite a response. I have a significant amount to say on the topic, but find myself few on words. I know what it is like to cut off not just parents, but an entire family. I am at the point where all I can ask is where does the blame end and the responsibility begin? Why am I obligated to love my family? Is it because we share the same blood line? Am I required to fight and mend a broken family when the destruction was there long before I was born? I have certainly forgiven them and myself for our mistakes, the tragedies that incurred and the elements that affected me directly; but forgiveness does not equate to standing by the family's side forever. My life is much more stable, supportive and happier without this "family". I take responsibility for not wanting my blood family in my life.
  36. Lana ** from Canada writes: I know several women who have severed ties with their family. It's because of childhood sexual abuse, and lack of support for the child, and the women. Even in-laws can be part of that. If people in your family deny, and blame the female child or appear not to believe or think she should just keep quiet about it, it's all in the past yada yada...she may, should, cut them out.

    This works often too, in families who learn about the sexual abuse of one of their children. They cut the woman off, emotional and literally. They blame her. They think they are protecting their relative, usually a male, husband, brother, uncle whatever.

    There are some things that are not forgiven. Women in these situations should cut the family off.
  37. James S from mississauga, Canada writes: A note on 4 line limit rule...it does not exist. One is just as free to fill the box as one is free to skip long posts.

    Ok.. now...

    What about the cases where children break or largely diminish ties with parents, not so much becaus of dark, wicked trauma, but rather... because they choose to avoid the drama, hassles etc. My mother used to always say that with Marriage, a mother often loses her son to the bride's family.

    My wife and I both come from large close families, but as we get older (mid 40's) , we find we would rather avoid more family functions and attend out of duty more often than not.
  38. Edmund S from Canada writes: In the West we are all socialized to construct an identity for ourselves or - because of ethnicity, social status, or other random phenomena - one is attributed to us. Thus begins the lifelong process of mining our experiences for irrefutable evidence of our 'worth' to assemble an ego we'd be proud to bring out in public. If our family is dysfunctional and loveless or consists of criminal, addicted, psychotic beings then where are the pieces of this positive ego supposed to come from? This 'right' to a positive identity has spawned a laundry list of entitlements and victims that can never be accommodated. Very few people are capable of being either a good parent or a good human being. Brutality, neglect, indifference, apathy, avarice, materialism, myopia, and hypocrisy are flaws that we humans have cultivated to perfection. To suggest that 'lovingness' or 'stability' or 'nurturing' are the only traits that parents need to impart to their children is sheer lunacy. An assassin with sadistic tendencies can be a much better father than a priest and a Prime Minister. Treat your parents as fellow human beings who are irrevocably in your life, regardless of the reasons why. As the flawed human beings they are, that will definitely mean periodic reprieves from their nonsense, which they will deserve. Just don't subject anyone to permanent exile - it's cruel and our children know cruelty when they see it. But, abandon the notion that this flawed person who also happens to have provided the DNA that made you is in any way essential to your 'self-worth' or 'identity'. Do not swallow the lie that having an 'identity' is a psychological pre-requisite needed to function in the world. The more we see ourselves as mere flesh and blood, the less rotten we become to one another when our desire to establish and affirm our positive 'identity' is thwarted by events beyond our control.
  39. minnie k from Canada writes: If I don't call my mother once in a while we would never talk, and when we do (and she goes on for hours if I'd let her) it's only about her because she's incredibly self-centered. She's also been depressed for years. I've been trying to convince her to get help since I was young and she threatened suicide, and now I've given up trying to be a parent to my mother. It's too much.

    People who break ties carry these things from their childhood because turning 18 doesn't mean their parents are magically different people. Their baggage has a very real physical manifestation in the form of their parents. Sometimes for our own good, we need to step back.

    Ella ann, this article isn't really about your situation. It's about non-mentally ill adults making a decision to either remain cut off from or to cut off parents and the reasons they have for doing so. I think it's awful what you've been through, but you're looking in the wrong place. Perhaps an article from the parent's perspective instead of the child's would be more relevant to you.
  40. Globular Cluster, a Cdn from United States writes: Edmund S, you write:"The more we see ourselves as mere flesh and blood, the less rotten we become to one another when our desire to establish and affirm our positive 'identity' is thwarted by events beyond our control."

    Excellent way of putting things. I agree, life is fleeting. Our mortality is the great equalizer. Let's not be so egotistical and demanding. Look at animals: They don't have pretensions and get by just fine. It's the decadence of our rich society that affors us the luxury (!) of having such high demands for our lives.
  41. Modern Observer from Ottawa, Canada writes: S Young, your comment is among the most eloquent of the many comments made here.

    Some people should should simply never be parents, but the biological imperative so often makes that moot. Sadly, sometimes the only option open to child is to walk away from the parent/family, such as it may be. It can be a messy, painful step, but good can come out of it.
  42. Zeena L from Calgary, Canada writes: To Mike Sun, I am from Middle Eastern descent and have lived all my life in the West, and I have lived through your 'we are perfect, they are flawed' discourse from my family. The main difference between the East and the West is that in the West people bring things out into the open and discuss and try to find a solution. In the East every taboo, flaw and problem is hidden and kept the dirty family secret. That's why you didn't hear anything negative in China, because its not the way it operates there. Its when things are open and discussed that a system and culture progresses. I even think its the main reason the East has fallen so behind the West. Most problems transcend borders, lets all try to understand them together. Oh and by the way - I love the Canadian politeness that I encounter on the street, don't knock it!
  43. Emma Hawthorne from Canada writes: Many adult children have cut ties without ever confronting their parents even once about their reasons, which make me wonder about their version of events. This is a terrible mistake and missed opportunity. By talking about their concerns, the adult child will put down their burden and might well be surprised and comforted if their parent apologizes and makes amends. Even if the adult child continues with their plan to sever ties, the adult-child will have boosted their own self esteem greatly by giving voice to their concerns and clarifying any misperceived facts. I have also met many educated, compasisonate, lovely adults whose children have severed ties with them. In these cases I think that perhaps this parent may have gone through a period when they didn't function well as a parent, or perhaps they suffered terrible abuse when young and parented either poorly or amid great depression for many years, but clearly now can function well and would be a wonderful help to their adult children. Or the adult child may have felt betrayed or harmed in some way, possibly in error. I hope these parents and children reconnect. I even know of one women, raised in extreme instability, neglect and emotional abuse who read the riot act to her mother and her mother's spouse, when her son was born and was heartened to see them give up alcoholism as a lifestyle and become useful grandparents. Perhaps fearful that the boy's mother would reveal the grandparent's past indiscretions and abuse, they then began a concerted effort to win over the son and turn him against his mother, using innuendo, false rumours by belittling her accomplishments. The mother never wanted to hurt her adult son by telling him the truth about the grandparents, but she has now been cut off by her adult son, without explanation. What should she do? I have no idea and hope commentators may have suggestions I could pass on.
  44. david martin from Kelowna, writes: Kirsten, it will be ten years this thanksgiving since I last had any contact with my mother. It has been seven years since I stopped contact with my brother, who had became equally dysfunctional.
    We moved a great distance across the country to remove our children from their paths.
    I connected with a cousin who had to sever contact with her mother, (my aunt) 17 years ago. The relationship provides support and a sense family for us both.
    It is not an easy choice to give up contact. But given circumstances, it can be a correct one.
    Best of luck.

Comments are closed

Thanks for your interest in commenting on this article, however we are no longer accepting submissions. If you would like, you may send a letter to the editor.

Report an abusive comment to our editorial staff

close

Alert us about this comment

Please let us know if this reader’s comment breaks the editor's rules and is obscene, abusive, threatening, unlawful, harassing, defamatory, profane or racially offensive by selecting the appropriate option to describe the problem.

Do not use this to complain about comments that don’t break the rules, for example those comments that you disagree with or contain spelling errors or multiple postings.

Back to top