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Canada's OIympic hoops dream dies

MICHAEL GRANGE

Globe and Mail Update

Latest comment posted at 12:09 PM EST 18/07/08

National men's basketball team gets trounced in quarter-finals against Croatia ...Read the full article

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  1. Just A Guy from Montreal, Canada writes: Basketball Canada has been, in my experience, (since 1976) an example of Groundhog Day, an accident constantly re-occurring. This is another one of their abysmal failures to understand what is going on in this country in basketball. Leo Rautins was a good player for this country, Syracuse U and his very brief NBA career. He does an excellent job as a TV analyst. Rautins is not a coach. Get some in there who is, otherwise this country will continue to be cannon fodder.
    We still have the age old problem with Basketball Canada and the people it is supposed to be working for/representing.....the best players are not playing. WHY NOT???
  2. Joe Public from Toronto, Canada writes: If Canada's national team was really at the level they seem to they think they should be, there wouldn't be so much talk about why Steve Nash wasn't there; either the team is more important than one guy or it isn't.

    Either way, Nash has nothing to answer for - he's paid his dues for the best part of a decade, and shouldn't be expected to carry the team now.
  3. D G from Canada writes: Years ago Steve Konahowski (sp?) wasn't given a chance as the National Coach before they fired him. I don't believe Triano did any better and the team this year was a fiasco. They lost to Croatia twice by about 20 points...and this was a last chance qualifier! They weren't even playing against any of the top teams! I think Basketball Canada has some explaining to do
  4. Michael Mitchell from Canada writes: Good points, all. I don't begrudge Nash for choosing to pass on playing for his country, but NHL'ers tend not to ignore the bell when it rings. But our national team will never be able to compete until our best players suit up. Simple.
  5. RU Serious from Canada writes: That's brutal when you're BEST player in this tournament was a 35 yr old Rowan Barrett

    Our entire basketball system is fraudelent and we rely way too much on the US college system to develop our young players.

    We need to rethink how to cultivate our younger prospects
  6. Tom Charles from Canada writes: RU Serious...exactly...we need to do like the Greeks. Their basketball system is excellent. In fact the U.S coach said the same thing when asked what he felt the U.S needs to do to win gold again... He said that in the U.S they have the talent, but young players advance much too fast before learning how to play the 'team' game. For Canada, we need to focus on the same things, but we have a longer road to take.
  7. steve hamilton from writes: I felt that Brempong was a revelation. Love the work ethic.
  8. Celine Brown from Canada writes: thanks a lot Steve Nash. You let your country down.
  9. Anne Mathews from Canada writes: NHLers answer the bell because the bell is rung by a professional and by a professionally run rganization that provides them with a first class coaching team.

    Basketball Canada is an amateur bunch of empire building hacks, much like most of Sport Canada. We don't succeed in summer sports because they are poorly run and organized.

    We have a host of athletes starring in the same US system that produces their national teams. We have some CDN universities tha compete south of the boarder very well.

    But the amount politics in CDN sport is a joke and all they ever do is hire people who believe in same old/same old. What do we get? The same results.

    If you created a national hockey program under the same conditions we've developed basketball, none of those players would show.

    Leo Rautins must be fired. CDN's must phone the misistry reposnsible for sport and complain that their taxes shuold go to another association. The board needs to be fired.

    You run things the same old way, you get the same old results.
  10. Tom Charles from Canada writes: Celine Brown from Canada writes: thanks a lot Steve Nash. You let your country down.

    you are letting your country down by making idiotic remarks
  11. L. C. from Canada writes: I am glad we are over with this 'last try' for the Olympics. Now, we have 4 yrs to develop a team to really compete for the next qualifying. Money solves problem. With money, you can hire better coach (Get some NCAA's coach). If someone played in the NBA doesn't mean they will eventually become a good coach. Coach needs a lot of good characters, personalities, communications and inspirations. Leo is just not the type of coach material. Get a new coach, sign him up with a 5 to 6 yrs contract. Let this person hand picks the team. Do more summer camps and try outs. Arrange exhibition games with some NBA teams or other national teams.

    I think there is nothing wrong with youth basketball development. What really become a problem is when they were in Highschool, there is no connection for them to further develop. Our Universities and Colleges are not competitives, and academic is always over your (any sports) skills.

    We can develop something similar to D-league or Minor league in Hockey kind of national tournament style. At least, there is a connection for the player to continue to develop.

    It is easy to say than do.. Money is still a factor.
  12. Celine Brown from Canada writes: Luckily, Tom Charles isn't letting the Steve Nash fan club down.

    Nash is just another richy-rich athlete who when it comes down to it only cares about himself.
  13. Khan dor from Canada writes: Anne ... and what uninformed people (not like you) need to understand clearly is that nothing is going to change any time soon under the direction of 'new' key players like Wayne Parrish (former Media Exec), Therese Quigley (CIS A.D.), Bryan Colangelo (Toronto Raptors), Tom Anselmi (MLSE), Ron Foxcroft (Fox40), and Jim Hunter (BC Business/Media) who were all installed by the very same group of Provincial Sport representative bodies responsible for the election of the other Board of Directors who have operated this inept organization for the vast majority of the last 30 years. It's the SYSTEM that's produced the sham that is Canada Basketball during this time which NEEDS to be dismantled and replaced by an entirely NEW model/organization for the administration of Basketball in this country today. Nothing short of this will be able to fix this problem as the different Provincial Sport Organizations (and the individuals who run them) do not have the ability (will, incentive or know-how) to solve this problem on their own. There are Provincial Sports Organization Heads that hvae NO BUSINESS holding the positions they hold today making key decisions about the way basketball is operated in their provinces ... e.g. who gets to coach which Provincial Team; who gets to play on which Provincial Team; to gets to hold the Coaching Development Positions; etc.; and who does not ... that simply do not have a clue about what it takes to win a medal with a championship-quality team in an international basketball event. If Basketball Ontario is a joke, and Basketball BC is a joke, and Basketball Alberta is a joke, etc., is it any wonder that Canada Basketball is operated in an inept manner way? NOT IN THE LEAST. Until the Provincial Sport Organizations are abolished and the National Sport Organization is wiped out ... there is going to be NO MEDAL in our future at the Senior Men's National Team level ... which is d*mn shame considering the talent we have in coaches/players in Canada.
  14. Big Cayman from South Toronto, Canada writes: Great comment Anne M....On another note RE: DALEMBERT

    http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/20080718DalemberttellshissideinTeamCanadadispute.html

    this might give you better perspective than The Sun
  15. Joe Dirt from Canada writes: Celine Brown, take your ignorant comments elsewhere.
  16. L M from TO, Canada writes: Big Caynman, interesting article on the Sammy D thing. I can't say I blame either Rautins or Sam. Leo's in over his head and badly handled the team chemistry thing.
    Agree with many comments above. Basketball Canada has botched this from the outset. Blow it up and staff it with people who have some playing/coaching experience (Wennington would be a great start) if we ever want a chance to play in an Olympics
  17. Joe Dirt from Canada writes: Looks like you were sleeping in 2000 and 2004, Celine. Or was it because you weren't paying attention and didn't care? Only when you could rip on him did you come out to notice.

    If Nash wore skates, this wouldn't even be brought up. Plain and simple.
  18. Cruthin Clan from Canada writes: NHLers answer the bell? I remember a certain top defenceman who frequently turned down requests for Team Canada back in the 90's. Nash served his time. Magloire on the other hand is a different case subject.
  19. J R Ewing from Dallas, Texas, United States writes: What should happen next to Basketball Canada is the same thing that happened to the national Alpine ski team after the disaster of Salt Lake in 2002 - disband it. Fire all the coaches, and tell the players not to come back. Then, bring in people from top to bottom who are accomplished players and coaches, and start completely from scratch.
  20. A non-Imus from Canada writes: Celine Brown, you are hereby banned from entering the Temple of Steve Nash.
  21. Khan dor from Canada writes: There have been 'accomplished' players/coaches involved with the operation of Canada Basketball over the years who have made no difference to the way THIS specific organization runs itself. Accomplishments alone are not enough to change the culture of incompetence which surrounds this group. FACT IS ... I could name 10 individuals very few of you have ever heard of that could contribute tomorrow to an improved Canada Basketball, if given the chance to do so by the powers that be in this country today. Ever gonna happen? NOT A CHANCE ... until this entire organization is wiped out, including the respective provincial sports governing bodies THAT ARE CURRENTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR VOTING IN THE LEADERS OF THIS NATIONAL ORGANIZATION. What matters the most is that you get the right people behind the scenes, setting the agenda and making the key decisions (i.e. who gets hired for what jobs and who doesn't) on a day-to-day basis.
  22. Captain Ontario from Canada writes: Sad.

    Rautins is a joke and in over his head.

    He wants a college like atmosphere and real pros want drink his kool-aid.

    FIRE RAUTINS NOW!
  23. Pete Largo from Canada writes: Celine Brown -

    People like you who know nothing about Steve Nash's dedicated and patriotic history with the national team should zip it. What are you, 14?
  24. Khan dor from Canada writes: Do you think the 'real pros' from Croatia, Serbia, Argentina, Slovenia, Greece, Spain, etc.: (i) Show up late for team meetings; (ii) Miss team meals altogether; (iii) Travel with a separate group of 'friends' from the rest of the team (upgrading their own hotel accommodations in the process); etc.? If you do ... the sad fact is ... you don't have a clue how 'authentic' pro players, from these respective countries, operate when they make the decision to represent their home nation in an international/FIBA event. Vlade Divac, Manu Ginobili, Rasho Nesterovic, Pau Gasol, etc., do not conduct themselves in a way which would separate them (as an individual) from their teammates.
  25. Tom Charles from Canada writes: Pete Largo from Canada writes: Celine Brown -

    People like you who know nothing about Steve Nash's dedicated and patriotic history with the national team should zip it. What are you, 14?

    ...I think she just proved it:)
  26. John B from Canada writes: This is a good news story. We shouldn't waste taxpayer dollars sending non-competitive teams or individuals to the Olympics. Now, can we please get refunds on the airfare for all the other guaranteed losers now heading to China?
  27. John Stewart from Victoria, Canada writes: I'm very disappointed in this result, but not surprised.
    Believe it or not I don't blame Basketball Canada first.
    This country is not producing world class players in proportion to how much basketball is being played coast to coast. I blame our school/community systems. 90% of high school and junior high school coaches don't know a thing about teaching young players the basics and especially the very technical footwork that players require in order to progress. Instead all they can think about is winning games by using a short bench, completely ignoring the overall incremental development players could use for the future.
  28. asdf asdf from Canada writes: 'Celine Brown from Canada writes: Is this forum run by Steve Nash and his family? Nash is just like so many rich and overpaid athletes who don't do the right thing when their country calls.

    Poor, poor Steve Nash. At least he's got lots of groupies here. '

    Athletes operate in a free market economy just like everybody else. They are earn what they do because someone else values them as such. They can rightfully earn 10 million a year if they generate more than 10 million a year in revenue for their employer. This is how business works.

    And how exactly is Nash not playing in the onlympic qualifiers letting Canada down? Does Canada not qualifying for the olympics in basketball really affect the identity and welbeing of the country that much?

    We've done away with conscription in the military, are we going to bring it back for basketball?
  29. Celine Brown from Canada writes: I'm just tired of hearing words like 'great Canadian' thrown around to describe athletes who, in the end, just care about themselves.
  30. asdf asdf from Canada writes: As opposed to caring about some couch potatoes who can't play basketball at a high level so take pride in the fact that someone who grew up in the other side of the country can?

    I suppose he also does this because he only cares about himself:
    https://stevenash.org/
  31. D G from Canada writes: Celine Brown, just curous as to how much of your vacation time goes to helping Team Canada make the Olympics? You seem to think others should do so, so you must be leading by example.
  32. Pete Largo from Canada writes: It seems that Nash's decade of dedication the program isn't enough for a know-nothing like Celine Brown, who spews her ignorance over and over from her little cubicle with a lineup of smurf figurines silently nodding approval from the top of her monitor.

    She's too busy microwaving yet another lean cuisine entree for lunch to know about Nash's Charity Classic Game, the Steve Nash Foundation, his work with Right to Play, or his recent Soccer Showdown event in NYC.

    She also knows nothing about how an 82 game NBA season and dozen or so playoff games punishes a 34 year old body. Or how Nash's back problems have become more severe as the seasons have gone by. When Nash isn't in the game he's often lying on the floor because his back is screwed.

    But don't worry Celine - none of us expect you to know any of this because your complete ignorance of basketball was crystal clear from your first post.
  33. Celine Brown from Canada writes: Okay, I give up.
    Steve Nash is one of, if not, the greatest people ever to walk this planet. I feel lucky just to breathe the same air as someone so wonderful.
  34. asdf asdf from Canada writes: Finally she understands.
  35. Neil No more last name from Mississauga, Canada writes: Celine Brown from Canada writes: Okay, I give up.
    Steve Nash is one of, if not, the greatest people ever to walk this planet. I feel lucky just to breathe the same air as someone so wonderful.

    hehehehe - that's pretty funny.

    I'll agree with most of the posters here, if it ain't hockey it ain't working/run well here in Canada.

    More specifically, a poster mentioned high school coaches using short benches. From my personal experience playing high school ball 10 years ago, this couldn't be more true. Find the few awesome streetball players on your team and play 'em till they drop. That's how it worked in the div I played in. I've never rode the bench so hard in my life, and I was a decent outside shooter. And the coaches I had didn't really know much about Basketball - that's why they relied solely on the players who did.

    I dunno...what's today's youth programs look like? anyone?
  36. Edwin Green from NS, Canada writes: canada will never get a good basketball team we have hard enough time geting people to go out and watch hockey at the local rink with out a fan base for get it anybody that wants to play has to go to the USA why waste time and money on it if their is no intrest locally it called grassroots
  37. Neil No more last name from Mississauga, Canada writes: Oh yeah and that Dalmbert article linked here was interesting.

    Maybe Canada should...hmm...be a little more flexible with its teammates.
    Sounds like he wants to play for Canada, just not with the lackeys in place right now.
  38. Ryan M from Ottawa, Canada writes: Methinks Celine Brown may have (or still is?) perpetually been picked last in gym class...
  39. elwyn jennings from Canada writes: Celine, don't give up the boat just yet [unless yer already on it] You can take up the case against those dastardly, nash-like evil doers who play for other countries. Here is a list of American NBA players who have at one point in their career refused to play for their national team: Tracy McGrady, Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant, Karl Malone, Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Jason Kidd, Mike Bibby, Jermaine O'Neal, Vince Carter, Elton Brand, Kenyon Martin, and Ben Wallace.

    The Cleveland Cavaliers recently prohibited Zydrunas Ilgauskas from playing for his country.

    Andy Varejao decided not to play for his country. [he's about 45 years younger than Nash] His compatriots Nene and Barbosa declined the opportunity as well. [Nene's reasons may persuade even you that he is justified!!!!] Manu Ginobili may not play for his country, nor, it seems, will Carlos Delfino.

    So go ahead...bash them, too. Or are you only picking on Nash?

    There are considerations other than patriotism involved in this type of decision. Try thinking...you'll like it.
  40. Khan dor from Canada writes: When Steve Nash and Todd MacCullach (7' plus/76ers), for example, played on the Canadian Men's National Team both of these NBAers stayed in the hotels rooms provided for each player by the FIBA tournament organizers; ate their meals with their teammates; and attended team meetings; etc. If in doubt, ask anyone associated with those teams. *** Sam Dalembert did not conduct himself in this way, and he paid the price. *** Those who sincerely want to fix the problems with the Canadian Men's National Teams program will get nowhere fast by attacking Steve Nash or any other player(s) from the past who is no longer associated with the Senior Men's Team. Instead, focus your attention on the future and the problems which exist today under the jurisdiction of Canada Basketball which does NOT include high school, community college or university basketball. Wayne Parrish was hired last year as the new CEO of this inept organization and in the 12 months since then this team has not improved one iota. The current group of Board of Directors was assembled by the group of Executive Directors of the Provincial Sport Organizations and has been unable to produce a top-drawer operation over the last 30 years. The current Manager of the Men's Elite Level Program has been in that role for the last 10 years. The current person in charge of Coaching Development has been in that role for at least the last 5 years. The current Men's Development Team Coach has been in that role for the last 3 years. THROWING MORE MONEY INTO THIS PROGRAM IS NOT THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM. Neither is getting more kids to play grassroots basketball. It takes only 12 players to field an ELITE LEVEL basketball program like New Zealand does and the people who want to scrap our entire scholastic-based system which has produced each and every one of the best players to come out of Canada for the last 30 years do NOT have a clue about what when it comes to improving basketball players in Canada.
  41. Rob C from Canada writes: There are several summer sports where it is a waste of time for Canada to send a team. Roundball is one that stands out in my mind...we always have one or two players that stand out - but generally speaking we suck as a basketball power. Why do we have to pants ourselves in front of the world like this every four years? ...Who will beat the Americans this year anyway? They lost because they had no leadership last time - they won't do that again...
  42. Khan dor from Canada writes: Once upon a time, 30 years ago, the best basketball players in Canada were capable of finishing in 4th place in a Men's World Championship/Olympic Games event. Whether or not those players went to school in Canada or the USA or played 'pro' ball or not made no difference. Yet today, for some reason, our best and brightest players are almost exclusively going to the US to play their HIGH SCHOOL and university ball and failing to produce the kinds of teams it takes to finish in 4th place at these types of international events today. It takes a small group of dedicated and knowledgeable people, who are well-financed, to produce a world-class basketball power. It simply does NOT require millions of dollars ... and whoever tells you that it does has never ever been to Serbia or Argentina or Spain (etc.) to see first-hand what those countries have done to improve the quality of the best basketball players they are producing today. Succeeding at the highest level of international basketball is a people-based operation NOT a MONEY-based operation, and NOT a RULES-based operation. Get the right operational model in place to begin with (which is not the case today); then hire the right basketball (NOT Business) people to get the job done right; and, Canada CAN/WILL qualify for the 2010 World Championships and the 2012 Olympic Games in a heart-beat.
  43. L. W. from Greener Pastures, Canada writes: Once again "blowhard Rautins" couldn't get the job done. If he can ever figure out that is about the players, and the team, and not about him, they may finally get some place.
  44. Anne Mathews from Canada writes: Khan, I cannot agree with you more. But let me emphasize, the roblems we see in Basketball Canada occur in many many sport governing bodies (SGB). The SGB system doesn't work. The Provincial Systems are exactly as you called it; filled with empire builders who only care whether or not they look good enough at be elevated on he national stage. Because of that, Canadian sport is dominated by big fish little pond syndrome. And I repeat, basketball isn't the only one. These associations have Executive and Program Directors come and go, but the boards stay the same and the feeder organizations stay the same and when that happens, what do we get? More of the same. Many players in BC end up playing college in the US. I'm sure that Ontario is the same. Why aren't funds spent on tracking their progress? Why aren't there more of them on national teams? I look at volleyball as being mostly CIS players, but are they the best players or just the ones the national team coaches happened to have groomed? The list of sports with these issues goes on and on. Women's soccer, I think, is one of the few programs that rises above the faults of the system and look at how successful it is. And by the way, what's Quigley even doing on that list of "New Influential Players" in the sytem. She was a volleyball caoch turned University administrator. Why isn't there an Allison MCNeil on the list or a Deb Huband? Oh, wait, that's right, they aren't political animals. They coach and win..... sorry me bad. Whe you become a part of a sport system in this country, if you arrive with fresh ideas.... tey basically blackball you. Why? Because even when a position is changed, it's filled by a former national team athlete who only knows the system they succeeded in. The reality is, the system is failing the majority and protecting the elite few, some of which are really just confirmation of mediocrity.
  45. Bill Tweezer from Canada writes: Captain Ontario from Canada writes: Sad.

    Rautins is a joke and in over his head.

    He wants a college like atmosphere and real pros want drink his kool-aid.

    FIRE RAUTINS NOW!

    No doubt, its one thing to lose year after year its another when you not going anywhere, cito could do a better job.
  46. Khan dor from Canada writes: Anne, personally, I know different individuals with 'new' ideas (as you put it) who have been 'blackballed' exactly as you've just alluded to. Yes, this situation does exist in other sports, as well, not just basketball; and it stinks like rotten eggs in those areas too. Thanks for providing another voice of reason and experience. Until more people, like Anne Matthews begin to speak their mind in public places, like this one, telling what they know to be the truth, these types of shenanigans are forever going to doom our national teams programs to failure. *** That said ... If dedicated & knowledgeable men/coaches like (for example) Mike Spracklen & Al Morrow can take a small band of Canadian men & women, respectively, and lead them to the medal podium in their global participation sport (i.e. rowing), which is chronically under-funded in this country, there is no legitimate reason whatsoever that a successful path cannot be created and followed in basketball for our national teams programs. It's a PEOPLE-based operation and, right now, the wrong ones are on the 'outside' looking in, while the same old same old continue to tread water.
  47. Neil No more last name from Canada writes: Rob C writes: Why do we have to pants ourselves in front of the world like this every four years?

    hahahahahaha
  48. Just A Guy from Montreal, Canada writes: I am very pleased to see how many posters here have an understanding of what has been and continues to go on with Basketball Canada. Most of those empire building meglamaniacs couldn't find their posteriors in the shower with both hands and a map because of their shortsightedness.
    Anne Matthews, me thinks you have first hand experience with the national team!! I knew Deb Huband back in the day in Quebec. That is the kind of individual a national program needs. She has the experience too.
    One of the big problems Bask. Can. has is that the real coaches, who would do a great job, want no part of the politics and the BS. They just want to coach. Coaching doesn't not necessarily mean always winning. Coaching is teaching, instructing and mentoring. Winning is the EVENTUAL goal. It is a long road to get there. Sam D is not clear on what a team is and how a team wins, especially one that is less skilled and experienced than some of its competitors. Our national team is not the NBA. Go back to the NBA and stay there Sam.
  49. Yves Champoux from Trois-Rivières, Canada writes: It is disappointing news, but not too many people are grieving today be-
    cause we're talking basketball, not hockey.
  50. boom boom from Canada writes: Can the program. Canada has far too many "national teams" anyway, spread way too thin.
  51. Moose Lion from Canada writes: Celine:

    This has nothing to do with being a Nash fan or not. The one and only arguement you have come up with is "Nash should play".

    Others bring up valid points to refute your's, yet your only rebuttal is "you must be a Nash fan".

    Come up with a half intelligent arguement and maybe people will acknowldege your comments.

    Otherwise, people will assume what is reflected in your comments: that you know absolutely nothing about basketball.

    And this is coming from a guy who will tell you that Nash is the biggest reason the Suns didn't get out of the first round this year, so don't play the 'nash fan' card with me.

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