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Polish town remembers Dziekanski

Associated Press

Latest comment posted at 3:20 PM EDT 19/07/08

Memorial mass held for man who died at Vancouver International Airport after being tasered ...Read the full article

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  1. Unknown User! from Canada writes: my people cry once again. RIP.
  2. H F from Canada writes: The RCMP from the video I saw, had every right to taser this guy. He was not responsive, agitated, and violent (witnessed by the action of him throwing articles belonging to YVR. His death was unfortunate, but had the RCMP used physical force, it could have ended in his death too. Heart Attacks and other fatal problems brought on by stress could have happened. Not to mention possible bodily injury to both RCMP members and Dziekanski. The bleeding heart people who support the criminal (including the justice system), have blown this way out of proportion.

    My sympathies to his family.
  3. Mani Pulated from Bymedia, Canada writes: A national disgrace and more shame for the RCMP, revisited.
  4. Mr. Andrew Toth from Oliver, BC, Canada writes: hmmm. He did not need to die. Vancouver, Canada. Not a good place to fly in or out of, if this is the way people from the 'Global Village' are treated. This was murder, by the rcmp. The video I saw indicated that. The world is a small place, central Europe even smaller. God rest his soul. Today, I am not as proud to be a Canadian. No, I never came here in 1956, haha. My father came to Canada in 1921, a grandfather in 1897. I am an Albertain, to which I am proud; the Canada I see now is nothing of it's former self. Yes, bigots exist here, in 'my' Canada, and they are writing here. Free speech yes, although you define yourself the moment one open his or her mouth and begins to 'emote'.
  5. Fake Name from Canada writes: Mr. Andrew Toth ... how else, besides a taser, do you think the police should deal with someone who's throwing equipment around an airport? Physical restraint? If you were in their place, would you step up and risk being bitten by an apparently mentally disturbed person who could be carrying AIDS, hepatitis, or who knows what else?

    It's not like they intended for him to die (they could have just shot him if that was the case); it was just an unfortunate fluke.
  6. Objectivity Please from Canada writes: Hi H F. Firstly, I am not even close to being a 'bleeding heart' and I strongly believe that people must take responsibility for their actions. That said, Dziekanski's actions were indeed troubling and potentially dangerous; however, the actions (and in-action) of several other people involved in the incident must also be accounted for. The 27 seconds from when the RCMP showed up to when Dziekanski was tasered is only the final moment in a series of failures on the part of YVR airport staff and customs officials to mitigate the circumstances leading up to Dziekanski’s death. The biggest failure of course, is on the part of the RCMP who, within 27 seconds of passing into the security tasered Dziekanski, despite the fact that he posed no immediate physical danger to them or himself. I worry that those officers knew, before even entering the secure area, that they were going to taser Dziekanski regardless. It certainly appeared to be the case. The sequence of events leading up to his death is deeply disturbing. I recommend watching the following 20 minute piece if you have time. http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/special_feature/a_deadly_landing/a_deadly_landing.html Neither you, nor I, know enough about the incident to be sure that the the RCMP either did or did not 'have the right' to taser Dziekanski, but I do think that there is enough information to say that the case is not cut-and-dry, and that as well as Dziekanski, there are others who's actions need to be investigated.
  7. Randy D from Canada writes: You apologists need your heads examined. To say this guy deserved what he got is beyond revolting. Even if he did deserve to be tasered, with 4 police on the scene wouldn't once have been enough. This is far more reminiscent of a good old vigilante beating than a planned take down by a supposed well trained, well disciplined force. I believe our so-called justice system has become a farce but that doesn't justify killing a person because he is agitated, exhausted and can't understand what an incompetent immigration system is putting him through. This borders far more on manslaughter rather than an 'unfortunate' action. A black eye for Canada exacerbated by the coverups that have become commonplace regarding police brutality.
  8. Slippery Slope from Canada writes: I was in Poland recently, and the people are decent. Although it's a bit of a police state, the police are generally well-mannered. However, they also have tasers.

    I don't know what their policies are, but I doubt they would have tasered this man based on what I saw on the video. The RCMP were too trigger happy.
  9. A Concerned Canadian from Vancouver, Canada writes: The RCMP have brought disgrace to Canada by their actions. Like many, I have seen the video and this way way over the top. The RCMP involved need to be borought up on criminal charges. If they are not, it just proves the RCMP can kill freely without being held responsible or accountable. This man was not a criminal, just lost, frustrated and scared in a foreign country. Instead of helping this poor man, they killed him within 14 seconds of their arrival. I am disgusted by their actions.
  10. Mani Pulated from Bymedia, Canada writes: For all of the appologists of the RCMP I ask. What good is police training if it doesn't involve restraint? Also. Were the officers involved, too stupid or, lazy to get a Polish interpreter, in an International Airport?
  11. Peter Cromerovich from Erehwon, Canada writes: H F from Canada and Fake Name, the pair of you are a disgrace to Canada.
    To anyone reading this page from a foreign country I would like to apologise for the crass, boorish remarks from these cowardly wimps and to emphasise that these views are not held by the vast majority of Canadians.
  12. Elaine In BC from Vancouver Island, Canada writes: This man did not 'die'. He was murdered. The killers should have been charged with manslaughter, at least. They knew very well that their actions could result in death. This could happen to any ordinary law-abiding citizen who becomes frightened, disoriented and upset in similar circumstances. He spent 10 hours, according to the report, lost, confused, doubtless sleep-deprived, and did not one person in that airport offer him any help or sympathy, or even try to communicate with him? This is supposed to be an international airport, so why are interpretators not available, especially in such cases of obvious distress? Polish is not an obscure language. It would not have been difficult to locate someone who could have communicated with this poor man within the first hour or two, before he became so distraught. I'm an English-speaking Canadian, and even I have found Vancouver Airport to be a disorienting, confusing, hostile environment where no-one cares or pauses to help bewildered travellers.
    This killing is a disgrace upon Canada, the airport management, and humanity, as well as the police.
  13. buzz fazbert from SURREY, Canada writes: I suggest that you whingers go to Warsaw International Airport and start trashing the passenger waiting area and see what kind of response you get there. In fact, why don't we get the Warsaw Airport police over here to show us how to deal with unruly passengers. Better yet, go there and observe how they deal with, record it on your phone and show it to them and see how they deal with you!!!!!

    Signed by:
    A Canadian who cannot afford to be self loathing and self negating.
  14. Mean Machine from Bugtussle, Canada writes: members of the RCMP noticeably absent.
  15. Slippery Slope from Canada writes: buzz fazbert from SURREY, Canada writes: ... Signed by: A Canadian who cannot afford to be self loathing and self negating....

    ----

    It sure sounds like you're self-loathing and self-negating...
  16. Objectivity Please from Canada writes:

    Buzz,

    Nor can I stand the self-loathing attitide of so many Canadians. However, this incident is one that is truly embarassing to Canada. I am unapologetically critical of the RCMP's response. A culture of arrogance and impunity seems to have permeated the RCMP and more accountability is required.
  17. caper dad from Canada writes: I have been reading with interest the many comments made by people on both sides of this issue. I have decided to add mine. I believe the RCMP acted in a reasonable manner to a situation that could have gotten out of hand very quickly. I have watch the video and what I saw was a man out of control. He was not just angry, he was out of control and violent. Coming from a country that was a police state he should have known how to respond to the police. The fact he turned and walked away from the police shows just how much he was out of control. We have no idea what the RCMP were told prior to their arrival on the scene. We do know what Mr. Dziekanski actions were. They were of a violent nature not that of a peaceful man in control of himself. The fact he died is tragic and sad (I know how that feels, I am a bereaved parent) but not the fault of the RCMP, they did what had to be done. Hate or love the police, they have a place in our society.
  18. Piet F from Canada writes: buzz fazbert ... I think you'd find that if you spend 10 hours in the arrivals area at Warsaw International someone would come up to you and question you in English as to what's wrong. You'd then explain that you're distraught because you can't find your mother and that it's the first time you've ever flown - let alone been overseas. They'd then directly - politely and courteously - to the arrivals area for your reunion.

    While I'm not suggesting that the RCMP at Vancouver Intl should be able to speak Polish - they should have had access to a translator. Given his age his second language is likely to have been either German or Russian. Polish, German and Russian are all relatively common languages and certainly there should be a speaker of one of them on site at a gateway like Vancouver Intl.

    Those of you who think that Poland's some horrible place need their heads checked. It's a fantastic country. There's still a big rich/poor divide between the rural and urban areas but I'm sure they're police are not trained to taser those who pose a small threat but instead how to restrain them physically first.

    If the RCMP can't use tasers sensibly - ban them.
  19. bruno tomassini from Canada writes: went through VANCOUVER AIRPORT FEW TIMES...it was not a pleasant arrival at all...rude, uncaring people all over the place...unlike many other airports that I passed by...Vancouver airport showed a general malaise...taser you rather than help you attitude...after apparently 6 hrs of unattended waiting was this guy out of place by throwing chairs?

    cheers!
  20. al goguen from Victoria, Canada writes: I believe if the mother had gone to get her 'boy' and she called him and took him to Canada, instead of letting him fly alone, this terrible accident would not have happened. First the mother said that he was married, then he was single. Something was not right. This guy had a few problems. He had never been on a plane before, The airline staff should have been told to help him go through passport and deliver him to his mother, instead of letting walking around like a lost soul. When someone called the RCMP he was completely lost. What I saw on the video, he was not acting like a 'normal' person. He was very agited and started throwing things around - computers tables chairs etc. He could have hurt someone. The RCMP did what they were supposed to do - they told him to call down but he was going on with his rampage. Sorry that he was killed, but these days, for those who travel a lot, we need all the protection we can get . The RCMPdid their job.
  21. Les Caine from Canada writes: Condolences to his family. This should not have happened. The very least we can do is try to ensure that there is no repeat. Good Samaritans could have made the difference.
  22. Perry S from Mississauga, Canada writes: Capper Dad, FAKE NAME, BuZZ: What the hell makes you think Poland is a "police state"? And how do you expect citizens of a "police state" to react to police? What a load of crap! Vancouver Airport actually seems like a police state: "Hey you, calm down! (count to 10 slowly in your head) I said calm DOWN!....ZAP!!! you're dead. Nice police training -- what's next? Cops start patroling the Vancouver Airport with cattle prods, zapping anyone who gets seperated from the herd? (of course, what else are they supposed to do? zapping them is so much easier than communicating or restraining) What a disgrace!!.......... "Oh no! He threw a stapler....OH MAN he threw a chair!! Call in the sniper team - he's going down!!!" Those of you who think the RCMP was justified in thier action sound like a bunch of wusses who dont want to deal with the real responsibility of being an RCMP officer - if your so worried about the 'likely chance' of "getting AIDS from somebody bitting you", then your not "enforcement" material, go sell codos or something and give us all bloody break! I've been to Poland twice and found it to be THE most hospitable country in eastern Europe. I drove from Germany through Czech and Poland to the Ukraine and back. I was pulled over numberous times by the police in Poland for speeding - each of them were normal and pleasant - even when some didnt speak English - they were very patient and understanding of my situation. Was I in fear of getting tazered or shot becuase I was pissed-off and could not answer in under 30 seconds in Polish? Nope.
  23. B . from Canada writes: I am very sorry that he died, and it is an embarassing incident.

    However,when you start throwing things such as computers in an airport in particular, you are creating a risk for others - and a risk for yourself.

    No matter what language you speak and no matter what country you come from, you should know not to do these things - and if you do, then there are going to be consequences. What type of thing was going on with his mother where she could not find him for so many hours?

    is this day of cell phones for everyone, he should have at least had a cell phone (or some phone number) to hand people and ask them to call.

    No matter what the reactions of the police were, the problems were caused by a man who started to break things in an airport and basically lose his mind.

    The fact that he died is regrettable, but there's a lesson to be learned...don't go into a major airport and start going ballistic and throwing things.

    I certainly don't want our police walking around on eggshells whenever they deal with an incident. They had to take care of the problem somehow and they did. They did not shoot him...they were not intending to kill him.
  24. Mister G. from Canada writes: The G&M is the best paper ever!!!
  25. Perry S from Mississauga, Canada writes: Al Goguen thinks its OK to taser people who have "a few problems", have never been on a plane, are not acting "normal", who may or may not be "single" or just simply seem "not right". ..

    Wow, are you for real??............................

    Oh, I totaly "get" how an old Polish migrant should have afforded a flight to personally escort her son from Warsaw to Canada. Why? So he doesn't get lost in Vancouver airport and somehow risk his life by not being able to speak English........ It's amazing how millions of Europeans migrated to Canada without incident upon arrival at the airport or port. Nowadays we have to escort them into our Country so they dont get killed. ..............................

    Truly amazing.
  26. David H from Canada writes: Oh please! Never heard of a phone call? If the person who is supposed to meet you is absent, make a freaking phone call. Someone who does nothing for several hours then goes on a rampage had serious problems. Get over it!
  27. Beatriz Perez-Sanchez from Toronto, Canada writes: Robert Dziekanski didn't merely 'die'; he was murdered. The people of Vancouver should also hold a memorial mass for him - inside Vancouver airport, as close as possible to the scene of the RCMP's crime.
  28. Harbinger from Out West from Canada writes: I am wondering if the constable who tasered this Polish gent who died tragically needs medication to help him sleep at night? I know I sure would. What an albatross to have around yer neck fer the rest of your career as a police constable. Bummer.
  29. Andrew WWW from Canada writes: Come on, it is a freak accident. I have been to Vancouver airport quite a few times and I do not remember people throwing thing around. All around the world folks are flying and behave as normal human beings. The guy was definitely mentally challenged.
  30. Allan b from Haliburton, Canada writes: I hate it when GM sencers my postings here goes again.
    What did the police use before they had tasers?? And whats wrong with this picture 4 against 1??? The 4 of them can`t handle 1 person?? What kind of whimps are these guys???
    Also the police can act indiscrimnatly if they want very very rare dose a police officer incure any sort of charges for wrong doing and even rarer is it that a police officer is charged that he she is ever found guilty of anything except that of doing a comendable job. What a joke.
  31. David Jenkins from Canada writes: I'm not sure what video some of you have been watching but the one I saw suggested that the "Police" had already made up their minds as to how they were going to handle the situation, taser first, ask questions later (if they are still alive that is). Robert was agitated, but mere moments before the assault by the four so-called officers a woman can be seen trying to claim him down, she sure didn't appear to be "afraid of being harmed". The officers were informed by the Vancouver airport security that Robert appeared to be speaking Russian, so of course it makes sense to order him around in ENGLISH. After the event, and before the video was released, the RCMP lied about the incident to cover for what can only be described as cold-blooded murder. Even after Robert stopped responding they did NOTHING to aid him and simply waited for the EMT's to show up to pronouce him dead. It's a travesty that these officers (and I use the term loosely) have not been charged with at least manslaughter, but then people dieing after they come in conflict with the RCMP seems to be the norm these days. May Robert rest in peace, because he sure didn't get any while he was here in Canada.
  32. Peter Cromerovich from Erehwon, Canada writes: Here's a sign for Vancouver International Airport:

    "By entering these premises you agree to be tasered if we feel like doing it to you; anyone who does not agree to be tasered need not enter this airport."
  33. Wanda Fyooka from Vancouver, Canada writes: I can't believe the comments on this board! This guy was tasered 29 SECONDS
  34. Wanda Fyooka from Vancouver, Canada writes: after the RCMP arrived on the scene - 4TIMES! Then he was restrained on the floor with one RCMP constable kneeling on his neck! I have seen the video many times and feel that these officers are not fit to be in law enforcement - in fact, there should be criminal charges laid against all of them. The subsequent cover-up is a national disgrace - the police should not investigate themselves, some form of public oversight is essential!
  35. Jesse Winger from Calgary SW, Canada writes: Wanda Fyooka from Vancouver, Canada writes: I can't believe the comments on this board! This guy was tasered 29 SECONDS

    The video tells the true strory.

    The RCMP....
  36. Tracy Bracy from Ottawa, Canada writes: The rcmp were called to kill him. Security carry tasers and sprays and they could have gotten him into a hospital for proper treatment which is what should have happened. Paramedics are not qualified to determine that a person can be let go in this situation. Its like they grab a dog from a dog ring and throw them back in. Understand that higher level forces do not come in to help they come in to quickly end a situation which means usually there will be a death. Security or medics need more training to prevent death because no one else tryly understands the consequences of using weapons on others. Even pepper spray can cause death but when it can not much needs to be done to take a person down.
  37. Tracy Bracy from Ottawa, Canada writes: Security people are so ignorant that no one in their right mind would take instructions from them and rcmp and other police only give you instructions that will help them harm you not just hand cuff you like you are told. It is not true that if you follow instructions made by police you will not be harmed. You will allways be harmed. They have gas, injections, stun guns and bullets. They are made up of the worst human beings that exist in canadian society other than those who most people have no chance of coming into contact with. They are dangerous. No one should offer any support whatsoever to these officers. They and families should not be offered any support or sympathy.
  38. caper dad from Canada writes: I cannot believe some of the comments directed at our police forces. The comments from Tracy Bracy take the cake. The RCMP responded to a violent situation. They may have been told that attempts were made to calm the man down but they failed. So they reacted the best way they knew how, they took him down. The fact the man died is tragic. The RCMP members did not go to work that day with the thought that hey I think I will kill someone today. I know there are posters who believe just that. The members who took part in the take down will have to live with the results for the rest of their lives. Could things have been handled differently, sure. There are lessons to be learned from every situation. To Perry S, I believe I said Poland was a Police State (past tense). If you have to resort to calling people names, you have already lost the debate. You have know idea of my life experiences, so grow up young man.
  39. Kirk . from Ajax, Canada writes: The comments are getting pretty harsh from both sides. We've all seen the tape. This man was not with a weapon, he was not threatening the airport customers, staff or the attending officers - he was 'loosing it'. As far as putting my self in their shoes as someone suggested, I assume that once I was in those shoes I would have all their training as well. Training in how to restrain an adgetated suspect for one. It's never been suggested that this man had any police or military training so I will assume he did not. Doesn't seem hard for 4 well trained RCMP officers to restrain one middle aged pudgy traveller. And these 4 officers didn't bring shame on the RCMP. The brought their own futures into question only. Well trained officers lacking the character to use that training effectively to keep the peace are probably in the wrong line of work.
  40. J. Bergin from Canada writes: Tracy Bracy, you take the prize for the most idiotic statement of the day.
  41. M P from Canada writes: Mr. Andrew Toth from Oliver, BC, Canada writes: "Not a good place to fly in or out of, if this is the way people from the 'Global Village' are treated."

    --

    Most people from the "global village" don't start throwing chairs at windows within hours of arriving in the country, so I'd wager they have nothing to worry about.

    Further, your usage of the term "murder" rivals that of pro-lifers and only demonstrates you don't understand what the word actually means.
  42. Cam . from everywhere, Canada writes: Let's be reasonable about this. Tasers have a 0.3% fatality rate. There was no reason to expect him to die from being zapped. This was not "murder", this was not a "disgrace", this was an unfortunate accident, nothing more, nothing less.

    For everyone who says they should have had an interpreter, first of all Canada has two official languages: English and French. If you don't speak one of them, you'd better buy a phrasebook because there are about 7000 languages out there and airport security is busy enough without having to track down a translater.

    Also, how was security supposed to know he's Polish? They were called to address a passenger who was acting erratically. He didn't respond to them in any language, and he was throwing furniture. Were they supposed to call out to him in every language they can think of until he stops throwing chairs?

    I really don't know how else to deal with an unruly passenger if you can't communicate and they become aggressive. Hug them? Spray them with a hose? Help me out here. The RCMP acted appropriately. They used a supposedly non-lethal weapon on someone who posed a threat to other passengers. End of story.
  43. Marco Polo from Canada writes: MEMO TO POLISH PEOPLE:

    DO NOT COME TO CANADA WITHOUT LEARNING AT LEAST A FEW WORDS OF ENGLISH.

    DO NOT MISBEHAVE IN OUR AIRPORTS, DO NOT THROW OUR STUFF AROUND AND EXPECT TO BE TREATED WITH KINDNESS.

    TO D'S MOTHER: DID YOU NOT TEACH YOUR SON RIGHT FROM WRONG?

    HE DIDN'T DIE BECAUSE OF THE RCMP BUT BECAUSE HE DID NOT HAVE THE COMMON SENSE ON HOW TO FIND HIS WAY AROUND AN AIRPORT OR TO EVEN GET HELP WHEN LOST.

    FINALLY WHEN THE RCMP TRIED TO HELP HIM, HE YELLED AT THEM, WALKED AWAY FROM THEM .. WHAT DID HE EXPECT?
  44. M P from Canada writes: If I went to Poland and started throwing chairs around an airport I doubt I'd be given a handshake and a warm cup of understanding, why do people think it should be any different here?
  45. Mani Pulated from Bymedia, Canada writes: It is amazing to read that some people believe that a person should be harmed or killed because he was throwing things around. If you recall eyewitness he was threatining no person. Should we now taser children, when they take a temper tantrum?

    Also, it is also astounding ignorance to believe that Eastern Europian countries won't bother to cater to foreigners. Remember, after the Soviet Union fell a high percentage of of the bloc countries citizens took it upon themselves to speak English. Have a large amount of Canadian born people bothered to speak another language?

    Its too sad when people regard "things" as more important than human life. To me these people are either close to being sociopathic, stupid, or blinded by authority figures.

    If I were the Polish government, I would call the Canadian Counsel to the floor and threaten to kick them out of the country unless, serious justice is done in behalf of the victim and his family in order to protect its citizens in future trips to Canada.
  46. mike sty - from Canada writes: When redneck cops like these 4 murderers kill an unarmed civilian and Koester shots an unarmed civilian in the back of the head, nowadays theonly good cop is a dead cop.
  47. Beatriz Perez-Sanchez from Toronto, Canada writes: caper dad: 'The RCMP members did not go to work that day with the thought that hey I think I will kill someone today'. That may be so, caper, but all police go to work secure in the knowledge that they can kill (or murder, as in the case of Mr. Dziekanski) anyone with absolute impunity. Whenever there is a death caused by the police, the cops are investigated by other cops. Given that the various police forces are very much a closed fraternity in which one officer will lie to protect another, even in the presence of a mountain of incriminating evidence, it is not surprising that the police literally get away with murder. In the rare instance that a police officer has an attack of conscience and makes any attempt to reveal the truth or contradict the official version of events according to police authorities, he/she can be certain that his/her career on the force will be limited and that his/her life will be made a living hell by his/her fellow officers. Marco Polo, your rant about people not coming to Canada without learning at least a few words of English demonstrates a total lack of understanding of the circumstances under which immigrants often arrive here. Those who blame Robert Dziekanski for his own death because of his inability to communicate in English should place themselves in his shoes and perhaps travel to a country where they don't speak the language. If the 'atuhorities' had used anything resembling brain power, they could have identified Mr. Dziekanski very quickly, realized that he was Polish, and had an interpreter on the scene within minutes. Unfortunately, all too often the 'response' of those charged with responding to emergencies is to use the most simplistic and brutal measures available instead of going the extra distance to avert a tragedy. It should be stressed that Mr. Dziekanski was damaging property and did NOT threaten anyone prior to his being killed. Property can always be replaced or repaired; a human life cannot.
  48. Mani Pulated from Bymedia, Canada writes: Mike Sty writes: "Nowadays, the only good cop is a dead cop."

    When arguments in behalf of Mr Dzansky are winning the day, shills like you write ignorant statements like this in order to throw off, any reasonable debate.
  49. Jesse Winger from Calgary SW, Canada writes: Mike Sty writes: "Nowadays, the only good cop is a dead cop."

    A truly retarded comment. How low will you go, Sty?

    The 4 RCMP officers need to to be brought to jutice. This was an extraordinarily bad call by call by these four bumpkins and it cost an innocent man his LIFE!

    Manslaughter at least (and I'm being generous because I have an uncle in the force). Don't the Cons sweep this under the rug.
  50. Perry S from Mississauga, Canada writes: Capper dad: Nice try old man. My point was that your "police state" prejudice (past or present) has no merit in this discussion. Also, I was called a "bleeding heart" before I called FAKE NAME a "wuss" for the AIDS bite comment, but alas I have lost the debate according to you because of this - you are wise beyond your years and life experiences (of which I know nothing about, therefore I'm not allowed to speak to your comments). This young man (as you have named me) knows nothing more than the facts: 1. Robert spent 10 hours in a secure area with NO help from authorities. 2. Robert smashed the PC monitor, and smashed a stool - did not throw them at anyone, and ppl there didnt feel threatend (as evidenced by interviews) 3. RCMP show up and kill him within 27 seconds. MP from Canada and Marco Polo, and Cam from Everywhere: I don't expect the police to give someone who is visibly upset and agitated a "hug" or a "handshake and warm cup of understanding", but I do expect them to take more than 27 bloody seconds to communicate and restrain him wihtout killing him!!!! Give your head a shake! For those of you who ask "what do you expect them to do without tasers??" EASY, it takes TWO officers to grab each arm and handcuff him, hold him in a room till his family is contacted or a polish airline crew or agent can be reached to speak with him (Yes, I understand there are thousands of languages out there, but it cant be that hard to find the crew or agent of a polish airline that might be operating out of that airport) Oh, and how is security supposed to know he's Polish? BY LOOKING AS HIS PASSPORT!! (that's novel, isn't it?) IT DOESNT TAKE FOUR RCMP officers to surround him, taser him TWICE and then put thier weight on his neck!! (ALL WITHIN 27 SECONDS) (Ready for the icing?) THEN, with vital signs absent, THE RCMP DONT EVEN TRY TO REVIVE HIM OR CALL FOR AN AMBULANCE FOR HALF AN HOUR! Seriously, you expect this response from our RCMP officers??
  51. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Every night in Canada's cities, police forces are using the same tactic to take down others as they did with Robert.

    It happened last night while we were sleeping.
    The same tactics.
    Sometimes tasers are used.
    Sometimes not.

    You see where this is going don't you?

    Robert's death is tragic, a very sad story.

    But there was nothing wilful on the part of the RCMP.
    No malevolence intended, no intent to injure, just the attempt to maintain public safety.

    There is no outrage that this is happening every night in every city in Canada.

    I believe those that are calling the RCMP "murderers" have their own agendas.
    Totally separated from the reality that was Robert's death.
  52. caper dad from Canada writes: These four members did not murder anyone. They responded to a call about a person out of control and acting in a violent manner. If you think throwing stuff around in a public area is not an act of violence then I beg to differ. What if an aircraft load of children had just unloaded into that area where he was throwing things about. Would you think differently. The man was out of control. There are many videos out there showing how hard it is to control someone who has lost it. You could see it on the video this man had lost it. I am sorry if you think it is alright to allow someone acting in a violent manner to wander free. The members did what had to be done. Again I will say the death of this man was tragic but not murder. The RCMP had no intent to kill this man, just to subdue him.
  53. Jesse Winger from Calgary SW, Canada writes: It might be appropriate to give the Feds a push here for action on bringing the four RCMP officers to account. Given that the incident occured back in Oct '07 I'm wondering why it's taking so long...

    Stockwell Day can be reached at day.s@parl.gc.ca

    Write your MP too: they love to hear from their constituents and their contact info can easily be found by using your postal code:
    http://www2.parl.gc.ca/Parlinfo/Compilations/HouseOfCommons/MemberByPostalCode.aspx?Menu=HOC

    Demand an answer! Let's get some action here.
  54. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes: "Jesse Winger from Calgary SW, Canada writes: It might be appropriate to give the Feds a push here for action on bringing the four RCMP officers to account. Given that the incident occured back in Oct '07 I'm wondering why it's taking so long..."

    Jesse Winger, I disagree with your basic premise, as I do NOT beleive the RCMP did anything wrong.

    That said, a lot of people do and all it would take is one to press charges.

    Therefore, are we seriously to believe no one has pressed charges?

    And if they did, it could well be it has already gone before the Crown Prosecutor and they have decided there is no merit in it.

    That said, a man died during routine police interactions and steps should be taken to prevent it happening again, if possible.
  55. Jesse Winger from Calgary SW, Canada writes: Michael Sharp writes: "I do NOT beleive the RCMP did anything wrong."

    Hmmmm. A curious response... perhaps you have not yet seen the tale of the video tape. Check it out and then get back to me. I'll make it easy for you:
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=IPe_hf7aBXM

    If you deem this acceptable conduct by our national police force then I'm very glad I'm not your neighbour.
  56. Peter Cromerovich from Erehwon, Canada writes: Marco Polo from Canada: "WHEN THE RCMP TRIED TO HELP HIM, HE YELLED AT THEM"

    Ha,ha,ha -when the Royal Canadian Mounted Tasers tried to help him? Oh, that's rich! Maybe you should take another look at the video and maybe put your glasses on this time. And stop shouting in capitals, it's rude.

    Michael Sharp - the RCMT's motto is Control, Dominate and Subdue and generally if you aren't us or our political masters then you are public rubbish and we will treat you with the contempt you deserve.

    They are OK out of uniform as long as they have not been hitting the bottle too much but once in uniform they mostly become arrogant elitists. There's a few notable exceptions but that has been my general experience over 30 years or so. Disband them into regional forces, they have had their day.
  57. Exer cist from Halifax, Canada writes: Undoubtedly a tragic sequence of events. The poster who noted that "If the person who is supposed to meet you is absent, make a... phone call. Someone who does nothing for several hours then goes on a rampage had serious problems" may well be right. But people with "serious problems" need our protection, no? My thoughts on taser use are: - first, it is better than being shot. However the corollary to that is that police and security officials are likely to use a taser under circumstances where they would not use a handgun. Thus there is a very clear requirement for rules of engagement that permit use only as a last resort. - Use of force is a matter of risk management. Because of the element of risk associated with taser use, it should not simply be assumed that tasering is preferable to other means of controlling a possibly violent person. - Finally, taser victims clearly require a period of medical observation, as well as possible treatment. Thus, tasers should only be used when there is an intent to apprehend and detain - and thereafter the police have a duty of care towards the individual until they are clearly out of danger. Police forces (and taser manufacturers) have made much of the view that those who have died from tasering are already "compromised" through drugs or other abnormal physiological states. That is not however acceptable - the taser may have its (limited) uses, but it must be part of a regimen that minimizes danger to all concerned.
  58. Perry S from Mississauga, Canada writes: M. Sharp wrote: No malevolence intended, no intent to injure, just the attempt to maintain public safety. __________________________________ HAHAHAHA!!! Must be nice to live your clear-cut, black and white world. Whatever helps you sleep and night my friend! Just remember that it took the RCMP less than 30 seconds to kill this man (who was unarmed) after arriving on the scene! No intent to injure eh? That's classic. (being Tasered TWICE and choked at the neck is no intent to injure. What a nice fantasy world you live in) M Sharp wrote: "Every night in Canada's cities, police forces are using the same tactic to take down others as they did with Robert." ______________ THATS THE PROBLEM!! Anmesty International has some very telling reports on the misuse of Taser in Canada. If you think nobody is outraged, pull your head out of the sand and start reading. http://www.amnesty.ca/themes/tasers_backgrounder.php (BTW, Your intimate knowledge of how every police force across Canada applies the "use of force" protocol has left me speachless. That's impressive!) What if Robert was a visable minorty? Would that justify more "outrage" for you? How about riots? Is that what you look for before you deem something is a problem? Wake up Mike.
  59. al goguen from Victoria, Canada writes: How easy it is to blame the RCMP for everything. Let`s look at the facts first. The mother decided it was time to take her "boy" 40 years old with her. I wonder what was wrong with him before he left his country. First he was supposed to have a wife, and then she changed her mind - he was single? The mother knew he was on the plane and she she knew when he was arriving. Why didn`t she ask the aurhorities if he had arrived and if had gone through passport. She knew that her "boy" might need some help. She went home instead letting her "boy" getting more worried, upset. He had never traveled before; he didn't know what to do. He started acting as if he was drunk or high on something. We saw on the video he was throwing things around. No one mentioned the danger the other passengers might have been. The RCMP asked him to stop and he continued. So what would you have done. Go over and give him a hug and maybe get a punch in the mouth - hurt? who knows. Taser guns have been efficient to calm down people, but I must say I read if someone has a bit of a mental problem, it might react differently. Still I blame the mother who should have gone to Poland herself and get her boy. Or she should have been sure that someone on the airline would help him on arriving here until he was given to her. Sad but we have to accept our mistakes and stop blaming the RCMP
  60. Allan b from Haliburton, Canada writes: I see blame the mother because the RCMP taserd her son to death. hmm yep makes sence to me NOT you ittiot.
  61. Kirk . from Ajax, Canada writes: Was the second tazering because he was still a mortal threat or because he was still moving?
  62. Peter Cromerovich from Erehwon, Canada writes: al goguen from Victoria, what a pile of noise.

    The RCMT acted like robots; they did not try to de-escalate the situation, instead they escalated violence by multiple tasering and neck pressure. They knew he was a foreigner after being told he was Russian which probably was a factor, albeit possibly subconsciously, in the level of force used. Everyone knows to fear Russians.

    After he stopped breathing no attempt at CPR was made and enough time to ensure death elapsed before EMT was called.

    Little has happened since then aside from professional apologists' spin, a few recommendations that will likely be ignored and no disciplinary action. It must then be assumed that the current administration and their RCMT arm consider this action reasonable, if regrettable from a PR perspective, and that it was an incident that will be forgotten over time. Stay the course and all that.

    Disband the RCMT into regional forces and retrain them to serve the public.
  63. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    I've seen the video.
    Studied it intently.

    It reinforces that the RCMP acted appropriately.

    I read a lot of the posts.

    A lot of them are histrionic, misinformed, seeing things that didn't occur based on a pre-conceived notion.

    In many ways, the pre-conceived notions of what did or did not occur are more disturbing than Robert's death.
  64. mike sty - from Canada writes: Why did 4 armed rcmp kill an unarmed civilian????
    Why did rcmp Koester shot an unarmed civilian in the back of the head?
    Why don't rcmp go after real criminals???? When faced with real criminals with real guns...........4 rcmp killed on rural farm in Alberta.
  65. Dan Shortt from Toronto, Canada writes: caper dad from Canada writes: " ... The RCMP members did not go to work that day with the thought that hey I think I will kill someone today."

    No indeed. And when Joe Blow went out to the bar for a night of hard drinking and partying, he didn't get into his car stone drunk that evening with the thought of, "hey, I think I will kill somebody tonight."

    But it ended up he DID kill somebody. And wouldn't you say, caper dad, that makes him responsible for his actions? Or do we let him off the hook, because he wasn't intending to hurt anybody?
  66. Mani Pulated from Bymedia, Canada writes: People in the tourism industry should be the first to demand that justice be done for Robert and his family.

    Why would anyone from Europe in his right mind, want to spend their precious Euro dollars in Canada, after seeing the video and noticing the lax attitude of the Vancouver airport authority, the RCMP and the Conservative government.
  67. J. Bergin from Canada writes: Mani Pulated from Bymedia, Canada writes: People in the tourism industry should be the first to demand that justice be done for Robert and his family.

    Yes, let's railroad four policemen so we can bring more tourists to Canada....good plan.
  68. Mani Pulated from Bymedia, Canada writes: I'm not the one making the plans for the Europeans to come, or not.
  69. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Mani Pulated from Bymedia?

    That's what we call...

    A stretch.

    Start again.
  70. caper dad from Canada writes: Dan Shortt to compare the actions of the four RCMP members to that of a drunk drive, well I just do not have word to describe how stupid that is. Is there a second video out there that I did not see. The video I have seen shows a derange man out of control. Look at his face, look at his eyes. He was out of control. If a family had been walking by that area and a child was hurt by this mans actions, would you still feel sorry for him. I think not. You would be complaining the RCMP did not act quick enough. The police are damn if they do and damn if they don't. This man is being made a hero by some for acting in a deranged and violent manner and the police are being made the villians for stepping up to stop this. Again I ask the question, if you and your family came upon a scene where a man was out of control and throwing things in a public place, would you want the RCMP or any police force to step in. I know I would. Mike Sty you keep brining up the Koester case. Recently I watch a video on TV that shows a police officer escorting a prisioner to the cells. In very short order the prisioner was overpowering the officer. This went on for a few minutes before someone came and helped. When a police officer is attacked in this manner, he/she is fighting for their lives. Once the criminial gets hold of their weapon, then all is lost.
  71. Ghetto Dude from Istanbul, Turkey writes: Hey you, all amateur executioners, police brutality fans and Sadists, nobody is executed anywhere in this planet just for throwing things around. That guy was not the most clever guy of the world and nobody says he must have been awarded a medal but he might have survived even in Auschwitz after having thrown a goddamn item - such as CAD200 worth of PC. Remember that, the police tasered him TWICE to death when he was already on the verge of death. Even in the movie named Midnight Express created solely for disgracing Turkey, the main character drug-dealer handsome guy did NOT die but that film alone made everybody hate Turkey. Vancouver has simply too positive a reputation which it does not deserve at all. Freaks in armoured cars around is the usual scene and if you think the average cost of houses over there is the outcome of the free market economy induced by "normal" jobs, I suggest you recalculate.

    I know a lot of rednecks will hate this posting and start a race-based counter attack referring to the info I provided but do not forget that dying at airports for misbehaving, is very very unusual all around. There is a method called arresting. (If that guy was a terrorist, he would not have waited the 12th hour to implement his plans.)

    Canada is a wonderful country and it will be even better when it domesticates the wild animals in Vancouver taking the form of Vancouver gangs and the Vancouver police.

  72. Mr. Andrew Toth from Oliver, BC, Canada writes: rcmp taser victim.....they release information regarding the incident......video comes out contary to what what officers said....they lied to cover themselves; they is not unsual for them, they are known to lie. Then appointment of inquiry occurs.....big cheese rcmp from ottawa leans on Mr, Webster to align his independant testimony with the thoughts of rcmp cheese in vancouver. Whole of Europe is looking at Canada, British Columbia, Vancouver, Airport. They are saying to themselves ah Canada, we cannot trust Canada! Official police force rcmp appears to be corrupt; actually they have made up their minds that the rcmp IS corrupt. Doesn't look good; waiving visa requirements isn't getting more Poles to fly to Canada via Vancouver; if that what the politico's are thinking. That scene looked like it was from, the movie "The Terminator". Get the global picture!
  73. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Ghetto Dude from Istanbul, Turkey brings up what is perhaps the most pertinent point, "Remember that, the police tasered him TWICE to death when he was already on the verge of death."

    Already on the verge of death and then he was killed not once, but twice.

    Point being...
    On the verge of death.

    Our Turkish friend sees this.
    Robert was unwell.

    Robert's unwellness contributed to his death.

    The dying twice thing is just bad English but our Turkish friend has hit the nail on the head.

    Robert had pre-disposing factors which led to his death.
    This is self-evident by watching the video.
  74. Ghetto Dude from Istanbul, Turkey writes: Michael Sharp, thanks for your support.
    (That funny "To die twice" concept introduced by my sentence may be categorised in illogical expressions group that exists in all languages which would have been corrected by the usage of "second". I would not see the mistake if you did not underline it: after a few times of self-editing and hitting the submit button, I always end up with some excess words or with some incorrectly cut and pasted parts. There would be less of such errors if we used pen and paper. However, if you consider the amount of "hang-em-high period" sort of comments posted almost each day in a country where there is no death penalty and the primitive sentences of some native English speakers made up of 4-5 words, you might forgive this error.)
  75. Tom Weller from Canada writes:
    Some of you flaky apologists blatantly accuse the victim. Shame on you all. Robert’s tragic death was needless, preventable.

    May He Rest in Peace.
  76. Mr. Andrew Toth from Oliver, BC, Canada, Canada writes: ))))))))"During the service, slides of Mr. Dziekanski were shown, while a priest expressed hope that his death would serve as a warning against the use of tasers. (Reuters) Related Articles Recent B.C. Premier says he voiced sympathy, not support Support for RCMP in airport tasering draws outcry “I believe that Robert's death will be a strong and firm voice as well as a call not to use such weapons,” Rev. Edward Dzik was quoted by PAP as saying. Mr. Dziekanski died last October at Vancouver International Airport, where he arrived after taking his first-ever flight to visit his mother, Zofia Cisowski, who lives in Canada. Ms. Cisowski also attended Saturday's service. Mr. Dziekanski, who spoke only Polish, began acting erratically 10 hours after his arrival when he could not find his mother in the baggage area, a secure area she couldn't enter. He was pronounced dead shortly after being struck twice with tasers by RCMP officers."((((((((( _________________________________________ Just read the words of the Priest. ....spoke only Polish.....10 hours after his arrival.....a secure acrea she couldn't enter. ......(Reuters) WARSAW, POLAND. .....actions speak much louder then words. May God Bless his Soul. Mr. Andrew G. Toth, Oliver, BC, Canada, V0H 1T0.
  77. Tom Weller from Canada writes:
    It’s an undignified horrible death for an innocent men to die like a masterless, homeless dog by an overrated electrical cattle prod in the hands of man who entrusted to uphold the law.

    We can see the same kind of heartless monsters, the right wing con crowd that blames Robert for his unfortunate death here as we can find on other boards cheering on our solders in Afghanistan to die for our country, the same crowd who would find pleasure turning Iran into a “glass parking lot”, the same crowd who killed baby Jesus.
  78. B.C. Expat from Ottawa-Hull, NCR, Canada writes: Mr. Andrew Toth from Oliver, BC, Canada: Doesn't look good; waiving visa requirements isn't getting more Poles to fly to Canada via Vancouver;

    That might have something to do with Vancouver being the least logical gateway into the country if you're coming from Poland.

    If people from Hong Kong start flying via Winnipeg, then we have a problem.
  79. Mr. Andrew Toth from Oliver, BC, Canada writes: ))))))B.C. Expat from Ottawa-Hull, NCR, Canada writes: Mr. Andrew Toth from Oliver, BC, Canada: Doesn't look good; waiving visa requirements isn't getting more Poles to fly to Canada via Vancouver;

    That might have something to do with Vancouver being the least logical gateway into the country if you're coming from Poland.

    If people from Hong Kong start flying via Winnipeg, then we have a problem. ((((

    _____

    You work for the National Capital Region? Then you know entry visa's are granted to COUNTRIES thru any port. Vancouver, Ottawa, Winnepeg, Toronto are all in the same vasa boat as far as Warsaw is concerned. Nice try.
    Hull, isn't that where they issue Canadian Passports from? Nice buildings in Hull from the view across the river from Ottawa as I remember.
  80. Mr. Andrew Toth from Oliver, BC, Canada writes: ))))))))))B.C. Expat from Ottawa-Hull, NCR, Canada writes: Mr. Andrew Toth from Oliver, BC, Canada: Doesn't look good; waiving visa requirements isn't getting more Poles to fly to Canada via Vancouver;

    That might have something to do with Vancouver being the least logical gateway into the country if you're coming from Poland.(((((
    ____________________________________________________

    ah....he got red flagged because "he was using Vancouver as a 'gateway' into Canada? Very interesting thinking you have going on in your head. ...he used Vancouver Airport, hmmmm. That drew attention to himself in your opinion?
    Since his mother lived in Kamloops, BC. wow
  81. Ghetto Dude from Istanbul, Turkey writes: Well, the Canadian laws state that, any newcomer to Canada can enter the country from any Canadian border but the authorised gate to fully process the documentation, is that of the province the immigrant is going to. In this case, it was Vancouver airport. (Anyway, if you check the flight schedules, you can easily see that there are no direct flights at all from Warsaw to Vancouver. This info may help reduce the bad Poles infesting the noble town of Vancouver phobia of some posters. And as for Winnipeg, if one person from Hong Kong went there, it would only be a positive contribution to the town.)
  82. Mr. Andrew Toth from Oliver, BC, Canada writes: Ghetto Dude from Istanbul, Turkey writes:

    {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{

    You sound intelligent, thanks for your comments. I at least appreciate then.
  83. Peter Cromerovich from Erehwon, Canada writes: Is there a switch somewhere to turn the binary Michael Sharp off?

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