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Gilmour, Clark to be honoured

Canadian Press

Latest comment posted at 11:26 AM EST 22/07/08

Pair of former Toronto captains will take their place among Leafs' all-time greats ...Read the full article

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  1. Tim Cares from Canada writes: Meanwhile, Cliff treats Mats like cr*p.

    Who does he think he's fooling?
  2. R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    Of course they were 'Popular' in Toronto, but they never won the Stanley Cup---in Toronto, or FOR Toronto! (Dougie in Calgary)

    Clarke NEVER won an NHL award, or was named to a post season all-star team!

    Gilmour won the Selke Trohy ( Best defensive forward) in 1992-1993 as a Leaf! Big deal!

    Contrast that to the Habs, that would NEVER retire a players number, nor EVER raise a sweater that had NOT won at least one Cup, and perhaps we have the understanding of the differences in the franchises. WINNER and LOSER!

    While I truly respect 'Loyalty' and applaud 'Support,' perhaps the Leaf fans are part of the problem and tolerate idiocy from management, and floaters on the ice-some players pretend they 'care' and suck up to the MEDIA and fans..then are rewarded huge and stupid long term contracts. ( Hello Belinda Domi-Darcy Tucker......)

    The Montreal media would have ran those phonies out of town long before the Toronto media were sucked in by these same!!!!!!!!!

    Bobby Baun, Carl Brewer, and even Brit Selby ( Caldar Trophy and Cup ring!) should be ahead of these guys.....and what about Eddie Shack or Jim Pappin?? They all have 'Rings' and paid the price.....!
    .
  3. Mike M from Canada writes: Wow. Don't get me wrong, I think Wendel Clark was a good player and an upstanding guy. But hanging his jersey from the rafters? - you have got to be kidding me. If I were a fan of the Leafs I would be hanging my head in terrible shame today. There is not another team in the NHL, in fact probably not a team in professional sports, that would honour a player with such an underwhelming record. Geez - I can't stand the Leafs and even I'm embarrassed.

    They won absolutely nothing while he was a Leaf. He averaged something like 25 goals a year. As far as I know, he never won any awards for anything in the NHL - not even an all star selection. The best thing he ever did for the team was to be traded for Sundin.

    If I were Wendel I wouldn't even show up to accept the honour - have some pride dude.

    Gilmour's record is a bit stronger, but again - the team won nothing and he has a single major award to his name. Can anyone name another team that has retired (or 'honoured') the sweater of a player who accomplished less?
  4. Dom P from Ottawa, Canada writes: 'R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:
    The Montreal media would have ran those phonies out of town long before the Toronto media were sucked in by these same!!!!!!!!!'

    Good after-the-fact analysis there Carriere. If I remember correctly, the montreal media and fans were wetting themselves when rumours of tucker going to Mtl came alive a few years back.

    As for not acknowledging Gilmour and Clark's accomplishments as leaf players... well that just shows how biased your point of view is. These two captains were not only great hockey players, their leadership on and off the ice (for the team, the players, the community, charities) are more than enough to get recognition. Notice that they did not retire the jerseys.. simply honour them.

    As for montreal honourees, I feel they completely deserve it and are right up there with the greats... I don't dimiss them simply because they played for the 'other' team.
  5. R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    Dom P from Ottawa, Canada writes: Good after-the-fact analysis there Carriere. If I remember correctly, the montreal media and fans were wetting themselves when rumours of tucker going to Mtl came alive a few years back...

    Are you kidding me? Habs fans already knew his act! Proof please!

    As for 'honouring their activities' put that next to Vinnie Lecavalier's....

    As I said, Leafs fans are half the problem..........mediocrity is acceptable and honoured.....while excellence is never demanded...

    .
  6. R E from Toronto, Canada writes: Wow, I'm shocked. Every time I go to the ACC, I always look up to the rafters to see the great names hanging up there and what they accomplished. Like the Habs, I always thought it would be a bit tougher to get up there. Apparently not. GIlmour only played six years there and only two would be considered really awesome. Clark had one excellent year and the rest average given his ice time, mostly due to various injuries. I loved watching both play, but I think a jersey retirement in the hotbed of hockey demands a bit more. Like some Cups. Or at the very least, get elected into the Hockey Hall of Fame first. Neither have yet, Wendel never will be. Seems like a poorly thought out attendance grab to me by a management who do not respect the honour of going up there. Is Allan Bester available for maybe a slow Tuesday game versus the Thrashers?
  7. S H from Windsor, Canada writes: Mike M.....I've been a Leaf fan for over 30 yrs. and I think Wendel deserves the recognition. He has been the most exciting player this team has scene since 1967. Wendel is awesome and he was an all-star. He might not have hall of fame numbers but he was my all-round favourite player and still is. Look up courage and grit in the dictionary and you'll see a picture of Wendel.Sundin is great too but he has won nothing. There is more to the game than just numbers!!!!

    RE....they are not retiring their numbers, they're just recognizing their achievements as Leaf players! They were both fan favourites. yes... it might be a stretch in some hockey eyes but this organization is not the Habs, not even close!!!
  8. Pat Billings from CDN, Canada writes: In Montreal, winning multiple Stanley Cups and selection to the Hall of Fame is not enough to warrant the retirement of somebody's jersey. For example, Jacques Lemaire, Steve Shutt, Guy Lapointe, Jacques Laperriere and many other greats will likely never get their jersey retired even if they were solid HOFamers and left their mark on the game.

    In Toronto, they retire the jerseys of players who couldn't win cups and who can't even crack the Hall of Fame.
  9. j wilson from vancouver, Canada writes: The Canucks have one retired number. 12. Stan Smyl. Doesnt mean much outside of BC, but he sure meant a lot in Vancouver.

    Gilmour, and especially Clark, were certainly significant enough to join the ranks of those who've had their numbers honoured aroud the NHL.

    It's what you meant to the home crowd that counts.
  10. Rene L from somewhere, Canada writes: OK I'll admit that those would not be nominees in my book but let the Leafs and their fans be the ones to judge who should be honored - its their team, let them do as they see fit.
  11. Alen Lager from Canada writes: Didn't Gilmour demand to be traded from the Leafs about 10 to 12 years ago? I'm not a Leaf fan so I don't understand why he is so worshipped by Leaf fans. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall him wanting out of town while the TML were enduring a lenghty losing streak and he was accomadated with a trade to NJ. Wouldn't a true captain have weathered the storm and try to do everything possible to right to ship, not bail out. And now the Leafs want to honour him?
  12. The Middle Finger ..I.. from Canada writes: If the decision is based on being a fan favorite like some have suggested, how about the most popular Leaf of all? He has 4 Stanley Cups. I believe his number was 23.
  13. J Law from Canada writes: I think if you look at the fans behind the Maple Leafs bench during the oh, too many Leafs games shown on TV, you will see the problem of that whole team and fan atmosphere. These people are bored, suited, corporate bought seats. They are not there for the hockeygame, but to be seen and to network with other corporate bought seat holders. Get rid of these politically correct corporate bums and get real fans in there!

    If the leafs want to shake things up and have fans demand a better quality performance then the league should cancel season tickets from TO and let it be first come, first serve. Then watch real hockey fans who pay big bucks out of their own pocket scream for a winning team.
  14. Alen Lager from Canada writes: Dom P, I don't remember any Tucker to the habs rumours 'a few years back'. I do remember that Tucker started his NHL career in Montreal and was traded very early in his career dispite being a good prospect.
    There was a reason the Habs traded him away and I highly doubt they would have wanted him back.
    Altough, I am hearing rumours that they might be honouring his jersey in reconition of his 'excellent rookie season'.
  15. george simko from Canada writes: R.Carriere from the Maritimes, Canada:
    Send you my warmst regards R.C. As usual you seem to be in fine
    fettel and continue to truck in high gear.I strongly concur with your
    assessment of Leaf supporters lack of hockey knowledge.Upon
    reading the comment that Clark,'has been the most exciting player
    since 1967'solidified my contention.After reading the comment it
    is pointless and lacks total credibility.Whether merited or not, it is
    the intention of the Leaf organization to hoist as many players
    until they are left with Mr.Fingers Regards
  16. Hap Stokes from Canada writes: I was wondering if anybody (or team)
    Has EVER paid honour to Nortre Dame in Wilcox SK?
    They have produced a lot of fine players (and citizens too)
    Think TML have a goalie that went to that school.
  17. Bam Bam10 from St.T, Canada writes: Oh brother. I am a lifelong Leaf fan, so I love Dougie, love Wendel even more, but this is nothing short of embarassing. Another one of these ridiculous pre-game ceremonies, which amount to little more than a popularity contest, just makes the club look even more of a farce than it already is, desperate to recognize some kind of achievement, anything really, in order to manufacture some provenance. I hate to cite the example of the Montreal Canadiens, but come on, does anyone think that the Habs would 'honour', (as opposed to retire ((what???)) Guy Carbonneau's number, or Ryan Walter's, or would have a goofy, stomach-turning ceremony for Chris Nilan, similar to that stupid thing the M(a)L(ai)SE stooges had for Tie a few seasons back. This stuff should be the domain of the Senators, hanging banners from their Stanley Cup 'victories' that date back to before Confederation, not the Leafs. Come on, never mind the fluff MLSE, just bring some credibility and modern-day relevance back to this sick, sick patient and make it better again.
  18. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Mr. Carriere.... Sittler and Salming never won a cup either and they are up there. Mike M... over his first nine years with the leafs Clark had the following stats: Games 463 goals 208 assists 146 points 354 unfortunately he was hurt a lot due to his style of play. Scoring a high of 46 goals in 64 games prior to his trade to Quebec. He played in the all rookie all star game and two others. R E: Gilmour and Clark led the team to more playoff games and success than either Sittler or Salming. For those that can't / don't read (Billings et al) they aren't retiring the sweaters.... only 5 and 6 are retired.... they are honouring the numbers. Pay attention if you need to troll. --------- Alen Lager from Canada writes: Didn't Gilmour demand to be traded from the Leafs about 10 to 12 years ago? I'm not a Leaf fan so I don't understand why he is so worshipped by Leaf fans. Correct me if I'm wrong. ====== Alen... consider yourself corrected... you are wrong. Middle finger: Can't argue with that... clear the track. Bam Bam.... check out my first sentence. Gilmour and Clark don't deserver recognition but Sittler and Salming did? Gilmour and Clark helped to create the supposed 'Leaf Nation'. A whole generation of Leaf fans out there remember 93 as their 67. I doubt you are really a Leaf fan. Cheers
  19. Captain Ontario from Canada writes: More humour to be found in the globe columns!

    Creep in here and see how the 'other side lives at night' LOL!

    Clark was one of the best Captains of all time. He could score, fight and hit.

    Awards? Big deal. Anyone who saw him play every night knows he's a HOFer. I mean Clark >>> gilles.

    As for Gilmour? Another superstar who was hidden by the anti-Toronto NHL. Sure fire HOFer.

    The anti-Leaf bias here is hilarious!

    Just how many Cups have the other Canadian teams won in the past 15 years? Hmmmmm.

    LOL*

    *Clark and Dougie RULE YOU!
  20. Captain Ontario from Canada writes: R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:
    As I said, Leafs fans are half the problem..........mediocrity is acceptable and honoured.....while excellence is never demanded...

    ______________________

    Actually, R.Carriere it's the Maritimes where mediocrity is acceptable and honoured...while excellence is never demanded.

    That's why you are still stuck there.
  21. Alen Lager from Canada writes: Scot, what was the reason for the Gilmour trade to NJ? It was over 10 years ago and my memory is not the greatest but I am sure that Dougie asked to be traded. I'm also sure that the reason he asked to be traded was because the Leafs were losing.
    I'm am not trying to be sarcastic or anti-Leaf or anything, this is how I remember things happening. If I am wrong, what was the reason he was traded?
  22. Captain Ontario from Canada writes: More automatic anti-Leaf, anti-Gilmour B..S!

    He left because of ownership issues with the team.

    That's the REALITY.

    He did not, c.lown-boy, ask to be traded because the 'Leafs were losing.'
  23. Mariposa Belle from Leacockland, Canada writes: The entire theme has been tainted with the ' Tie' sendoff. It makes the Leafs look desperate and sullies two good players whose numbers may deserve to be 'honoured' but not retired.

    If the Leafs want to retire a number - make it 4 for Baun.
  24. Captain Ontario from Canada writes: More B..S.

    Two of the greatest all-time Leafs are being honoured. Amazing!

    The real problem is with the R.O.C.'s teams being just good enough for ONE year to make it to the Cup so they can suck the 'minimum' wages of their conned low-paid fans to continue to pony up.

    How many Cup losers have we had? One year wonders...makes the locals so proud they poney up their hard earned welfare to buck tix.
  25. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Alen Lager .... no problem ..... didn't think you were trolling.

    The Leafs were losing and it was a good trade for Toronto. They needed to get younger(rebuilding year). He and Dave Ellett went to NJ for Alyn McCauley, Steve Sullivan, and Jason Smith.

    I can go on about how Quinn gave away both Smith and Sullivan..... but that's another story.

    Bottom line is Dougie would never have come back had there been a problem.

    http://www.legendsofhockey.net:8080/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/SearchPlayer.jsp?player=10539

    Good site for the full story on Doug Gilmour.

    Cheers
  26. Captain Ontario from Canada writes: YAWN!

    GILMOUR DID NOT DEMAND A TRADE BECAUSE THE TEAM WAS LOSING

    Vancouver must be thinking of their players after their 94 choke job.

    Calgary after bowing down in pathetic fashion a few years ago and then selling out after getting season ticket holders to re-new and relying on the ancient Owen Nolan and a fluke goalie.

    Edmonton still dreams of the Gretzky sale.

    Ottawa...one year fluke...like an ugly guy scoring at a lesbian convention with free booze.

    Montreal...hopeless. No one really wants to play in a province with a fascist language policy.
  27. Alen Lager from Canada writes: Scot, it's obvious that Leafs fans still love Gilmour and of course, he now works for the team, but did he ask for a trade back then? I seem to recall a lot of 'Dougie wants out stories' at the time. Of course, these stories I remember could just be columnists speculation and talk radio ga ga.
  28. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Gilmour was good when he played for Calgary, but Clark like Cujo were considered superstars simply because they played for the Mighty Leaf during the 'Leaf's nation' spin years...

    If Clark had actually played on the 1976 Habs, he might have been a fourth liner... If he had actually made the team, that is.

    Cheers
  29. James C from Shenzhen, Canada writes: so these two fine players are being given some sort of second class honour, as opposed to having the number actually retired. fitting i suppose, they were good players, not great and didnt win any cups with the leafs.... is there a third class honour for those who merely served with the team? this kind of 'award' really demeans the process of rewarding someone.
  30. jake and pete from Canada writes: I would keep the standars simple. How many Stanley Cups have you won. 3,4,5, up you go. But these 2 guys as much as I like them just make me shake my head and once again the Leafs put up with mediocricty. Did Daryle win a cup? No so get his 27 down.

    Ellis, Ulman, Keon no problem with those guys.
  31. Martin Fedgrass from Canada writes: When I was kid growing up in the 60's, I lived and died with the leafs, Hockey Night in Canada and all that. Life was good. Dave Keon was my hero. When Davey was screwed over by that a$$hole Harold Ballard I didnt think I would ever be a fan of the club again. I was 'briefly' drawn back in in 1978 in that dramatic nail-biter of a quarter-final victory against the evil clutch-and-grab Islanders, but that was it. I have despised the team since and refuse to budge unless they make amends with Davey (stick to your guns, Davey!) and give him the public honours he deserves.

    I am sorry, you can't even use names like Clark, Gilmour and Sittler in the same sentence as Keon. They are just more players who got stuck with the perennial loser Leafs.
  32. The Middle Finger ..I.. from Canada writes: If the decision is based on being a fan favorite as some have suggested, how about the most popular Leaf of all? He also was on four ( 4 ) Toronto Stanley Cups winners. He may even have scored more goals than Gilmour for the Leafs. I believe his number was 23.
    Anyone old enough to remember him?
  33. slapdash dapoint from trawna, Canada writes: you guys go on all you want about gilmour, but clark - maybe not through MLSE - deserves recognition for his years played.

    if nothing else, he epitomised 'hockey player'.

    in addition to his community relations position with MLSE, they should have him run a player developement boot camp - and not just for the rookies or kids in the system.

    i don't want get into an argument about it, but to slag the guy for everything he brought to the team is ridiculous. he may not have won the cup, or any other award for that matter, but when you look back on the leafs for the last 20 odd years, some of the best runs, moments, events are related by clark's involvement.

    and the comment about the best thing he did was be there to traded for sundin: step away from the glue. unlike mats, clark played the whole game. and played it hard.

    the guy had gravity and presence on and off the ice. which is a lot more than 99% of the guys who have put on the leafs sweater since.
  34. Fed Up And Had Enough from Canada writes: I don't know why so many of you are so bothered by what MLSE does to pay tribute to their former players. What business is it of yours? I guess what Clark and Gilmour mean to Leaf fans is something you just don't understand.......but I for one don't care whether you do or not....like I said, none of your business.
    I was at a game in October of 2003 when the Leafs paid tribute to Doug Gilmour after he announced his retirement. I had never heard noise like that in the ACC, before or since. The ovation lasted for about 15 minutes, and every time it would appear to be dying down, someone would shout 'We love you Dougie' and the place would go haywire again! He meant alot to the fans and in the 92-93 season, he was second to Mario Lemieux in the voting for the Hart trophy (League MVP)! Yeah, a real under achiever....so I've had my say.....and I hope to be there when the fans get to salute their heroes....it's long overdue.
    PS: Thanks Scott, for the sanity amid the chaos!
  35. J R from Halifax, Canada writes: Captain Ontario from Canada .... what's with the comments about the maritimes and people being stuck here? Seriously what does that mean?

    Not sure if you realize it but we aren't sitting here ashamed of where we live or wishing we were in Ontario...I lived in Toronto and loved it but no more than I enjoy living here. I agree with giving it back to R Carriere as he was taking shots but why do you want to insult a whole group of posters, some of them leaf fans like myself, with something so foolish?

    As for the leaf haters, seriously if you have an issue with whom the team is honoring then you need a new hobby. I am not sitting here getting all bent out of shape, EVER, with what another team is doing to market their team.

    They are not retiring these nunmbers but they are going to recognize two individuals who did do more for their team than most others in recent history and that goes a long way in rebuilding the atmosphere for the younger players. If we had some cup winners since '67 we likely would honor them first but we don't.
  36. Pat Billings from CDN, Canada writes: Given that the rest of the pro sports world honors their heroes by retiring their numbers, 'Honoring the sweater....' is the lamest kind of honor a team could grant.

    Many former leafs who have felt belittled by the leafs org have said the same.
  37. Jeff Gulley from Toronto, Canada writes: I wonder why so many people hate Toronto so much?

    Oh well, to each their own. Peace. Go Leafs Go.
  38. David Gehring from Ottawa, Ontario, Canada writes: Gilmour maybe, but Wendel Clark? Surely an Original Six team can do better than that. As I remember, most Toronto fans were bashing Clark throughout the 80's for not living up to his potential as a 1st overall pick (with constant comparisons to Lemieux and Hawerchuk). Then in the 90's, he was traded away from the Leafs TWICE. Career numbers are nothing special either. We're certainly looking at Clark more positively now than we did when he played.

    And by the way, Stan Smyl was terrible, the Canucks only retired his number because their rafters are empty and they needed something, anything at all, to make them look like they aren't one of the league's worst franchises. Wow, even the LA Kings had Marcel Dionne.
  39. Jah Nee Kah Sun from Canada writes: It'll be the biggest Leafs extravaganza since Tie Domi night.
  40. Martin Fedgrass from Canada writes: This is merely an example of a base of fans desperate to cheer for something - because it isnt going to come from their team's record!
  41. Fed Up And Had Enough from Canada writes: Pat Billings: Many former leafs who have felt belittled by the leafs org have said the same.
    Who are you referring to?
  42. j q from Canada writes: The Leafs approach has been to honour the jersey numbers of players that have resonance with the fan base. There are only two jersey's that are actually retired (Barilko and Bailey) a la the Canadiens method which btw is how the rest of the league pays tribute to former players. While the Canadiens have had an abundance of riches over the years and thus have the luxury of counting Cup rings to determine the retirement of jerseys, there are many teams that have retired jerseys for other reasons. Here is a sampling: Washington Capitals - Dale Hunter Dallas (Minnesota) - Bill Goldsworthy NY Rangers - Rod Gilbert, Ed Giacomin Buffalo Sabres - Danny Gare, Rene Robert, Boston Bruins - Cam Neely L.A. Kings - Dave Taylor Vancouver Canucks - Stan Smyl Phoenix (Winnipeg) - Thomas Steen I certainly agree that Keon and Baun should be honoured before Gilmour and Clarke. As one of the best two-way centers to play the game and 16th amongst all time points leaders, Gilmour should make it to the HoF and I have little issue with honoring his jersey in TO. In Clarke's case, most would say he doesn't deserve any accolades due to his lack of awarded accomplishments. However, Clarke's connection to the Leafs is very much like that of Hunter and Neely who went to battle every night for mediocre teams. I think Clarke should be honoured one day but not ahead of Keon and Baun.
  43. j wilson from vancouver, Canada writes: David Gehring. I thought someone who has to watch the Sens play would better understand the 'lovable loser' appeal of an underachiever.
  44. J.C. Petite from Toronto, Canada writes: Good post j q....

    Its like everybody tends to forget the rest of the league. Its never a problem unless the Leafs do it. The hating is truly unreal.

    This Anti-Leaf crap is so pathetic.....do the haters have any idea how stupid they sound?? They complain about everything this team does.

    Grow up all of you, you guys sound like a bunch of babies.

    P.S. Dougie and Clark were heros in this city, they are truly loved by all Leaf fans. They were part of one of the most exciting playoff runs this city has ever seen. Everybody here loved that team and loved those guys, so we can honour their jerseys if we F%*/$ng want to! Get a life!
  45. slapdash dapoint from trawna, Canada writes: no jerseys in hockey...

    hockey has hockey SWEATERS

    just like there is a 'U' in honour and neighbour, in canada we wear hockey SWEATERS
  46. Max Axe from Toronto, Canada writes: Hey I understand Clarkey getting the big honour but Gilmour? What gives?
  47. Billy Talon from Toronto, Canada writes: Fed Up And Had Enough from Canada writes: I don't know why so many of you are so bothered by what MLSE does to pay tribute to their former players. What business is it of yours? I guess what Clark and Gilmour mean to Leaf fans is something you just don't understand.......but I for one don't care whether you do or not....like I said, none of your business.

    ***

    Great post, Fed Up.

    The usual cast of characters are here (Pat Billings, R Miller, et al).

    I can never understand why they continue to post and comment on a team they despise so much - I mean, I never read or comment on a Montreal story - simply because I don't care.

    I guess they have nothing better to do with their time.
  48. Billy Talon from Toronto, Canada writes: J R from Halifax, Canada writes: Captain Ontario from Canada .... what's with the comments about the maritimes and people being stuck here? Seriously what does that mean?

    J R, great post.

    I liked Gilmour, but Clark was a throwback to the way the game should be played - fighting, hitting, scoring.

    Anyone remember that hit Clark put on Messier (Clark got the worst of it) but it was still a good, open ice colllison.
  49. j wilson from vancouver, Canada writes: Max Axe, I hope youre not talking about the spurious accusation in St. Louis.

    If you know something about Gilmour that's verifiable, do tell. Ive never heard much negative about the guy (moody, thick beard, thats about it) but maybe Im missing something.
  50. The Middle Finger ..I.. from Canada writes: To The Middle Finger ..I.. from Canada who wrote: If the decision is based on being a fan favorite as some have suggested, how about the most popular Leaf of all? He also was on four ( 4 ) Toronto Stanley Cups winners. He may even have scored more goals than Gilmour for the Leafs. I believe his number was 23.
    Anyone old enough to remember him?

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I guess I will have to take my own bait and answer the question since no one else seems old enough to remember. His credentials are fan favorite, tough guy, scoring contributor, and 4 Stanley Cups for the Leafs. His name is Eddie ' The Entertainer ' Shack.
  51. Neil No more last name from Mississauga, Canada writes: No kidding - knew this one would get the anti-leaf people going. Geez, so much pent up anger - just waiting for something, anything to filp on Leaf fans for.

    It's a marketing scheme, just like the free tickets, in a year the Leafs consider themselves to be rebuilding. They're obvious fan favourites, and Toronto sure ain't the only place to do this.

    I'm sorry were not the Habs and we haven't won 24 cups - You guys are either rotten arrogant, or have something to prove.

    To come here an complain about something that impacts your team in no way, just to brag about the Cups and all-stars and hall of famers - way to go, good work - There I pat you on the back, feel better?
  52. Hap Stokes from Canada writes: Jeff Gulley from Toronto, Canada writes: I wonder why so many people hate Toronto so much?

    Never heard anybody claim they hate Toronto Jeff.
    But everybody from Coast/Coast laughs at it.
    Now live on Vanc Island, born raised in NS--lived in 7 Provinces B4.
    Everybody always laugh at Toronto (everywhere I've lived)
    Especially at all 5 of those forever LOSING pro sports teams.
    Especially the Bore Hole Leafs (40 times a year).

    You should go to a party in Newfoundland sometime Jeff.
    Would you ever hear a lot of BELLY aching Toronto jokes.
    Once heard a guy tell T.O. jokes non-stop for an hour--
    Then take a break for a few beers and do it again for another hour.

    And he was just a construction worker home to see his parents.
    But they don't hate you; just make fun of you (that's all).
  53. Billy Talon from Toronto, Canada writes: Hap Stokes from Canada writes: Jeff Gulley from Toronto, Canada writes: I wonder why so many people hate Toronto so much?

    Especially at all 5 of those forever LOSING pro sports teams.
    Especially the Bore Hole Leafs (40 times a year).

    ***

    It must be easy to laugh at those sports teams when most provinces have 1, maybe 2 in each province.

    I could care less if people from the ROC hate/make fun of Toronto.

    Doesn't bother me at all - just seems pathetic, if you ask me, Hap.
  54. Captain Ontario from Canada writes: Clark and Gilmour are amazing.

    Too bad most of you here were too busy fishing, clubbing seals, or looking for work and couldn't attend any games.

    Clark 85-95, along with Cam Neely, the best physical scorer in the game.

    Gilmour 85-95, top scorer with an edge.

    BOTH BELONG IN THE HOF!
  55. Hap Stokes from Canada writes: How can we compare the Stanley Cups
    Won is THE ORIGINAL SIX years to modern day Cups such as won by the Red Wings in 2008?

    The more teams --The more difficult--AND VALUABLE too.

    In the original six days there were two constant losers always battling for last place in a 6 team league.--The Bruins & Rangers.

    So it was automatic Chicago, Det, Mtl and Toronto made the Stanley Cup Play-offs EVERY year. To get in the Finals all a team had to do was beat another team 4 times. To win the Cup all you had to do was win 4 out of 7 games.

    Hell to win the Allan Cup was far more difficult to win than the Stanley Cup was in the Original Six days.

    Those Stanley Cups awarded before 20 teams were in the league should be recorded but have asterisk's alongside the winning team.
  56. j q from Canada writes: The haters go out of their way to voice a myriad of anti-Toronto diatribe and then casually brush if off as all in the name of fun. Like Proud Canadian, '...I hate everything about Toronto! I prefer Detroit over TO for gun crime and entertainment.'

    What is truely funny is that when rational points are raised in discussing these articles, most of the haters run and hide. There are a few other teams that have retired a players' sweaters without that player having won a Cup for the team, and there are a few players who have been honoured that are not in the HoF. Certainly, one can debate the merits of the Leafs approach to the honouring of player sweaters, but most haters can't help themselves going out of their way to take their daily cheap shots. After all, it is common place in most provinces to deride everything associated with TO. It's just all in good fun!
  57. Neil No more last name from Mississauga, Canada writes: Hap Stokes - was the difference between the two? hating or laughing at?

    Either way there is a lack of respect, complete and total, and condescending behaviour to match. Can't remember the last time i spend an hour laughing at anohter part of Canada, pal.

    As far as losing pro sports teams go, C'mon - Canada's one and only Baseball team - back to back early 90's. The Argos - record for most grey Cups

    J R from halifax was offended when Captain Ontario took a jab at the East Coasters, is it any different than the crap taken by those in Toronto that maybe don't fit your pre-conceived notion?

    The use of the word hate - Semantics buddy ol' pal, ol'chap, ol' mate.
  58. Max Axe from Toronto, Canada writes: Ontario is the only Province with the guts to put up real professional teams, the rest of Canada doesn't have the gonads to even try. So stop trying to diss Ontario and Toronto if you don't have the brass ones' to try doing the same.
  59. j q from Canada writes: Hey Neil, guys like Hap give themselves away when they write stuff like, '...Especially at all 5 of those forever LOSING pro sports teams.' Good of you to note the record of some of the other teams in Toronto and the peaceful celebrations associated with those championships. They hold up well compared to the disasters in some other cities after championships, or after just winning a single round in the playoffs!
  60. Captain Ontario from Canada writes: Darcy Tucker?

    LOL!

    Gilmour had an 'edge' in life and on the ice.

    Guys like you living in your mummy's basement eating twinkies all day and dreaming of the latest japanese p.orn model you download can stick to your own 'lifestyle.'
  61. Jeff Gulley from Toronto, Canada writes: Hey Hap. I've got no problem with laughing at all. Newfie jokes, Toronto jokes...it's all cool. I haven't had the pleasure of visiting Newfoundland yet, but I've been to Nova Scotia twice and loved every minute.

    But there do seem to be some characters (and it's the same usual suspects) who really get off on turning themselves against Toronto. Not just joking, and you know it. Entire web-existences built upon derision of a city which they probably don't know very well at all.

    Anyway, I'm not even from Toronto. This is the first month I've ever lived here. It's not so bad...really!
  62. Levitt2 Beaver from Killaloe, Canada writes: I played hockey agaisnt Doug Gilmour once. We was fast and slippery. I don't like the rumours about his off ice issues with women though..Really sad.
  63. Discordant One from Canada writes: Say what you will about Gilmour, Clark was the epitome of a solid, traditional, Canadian hockey player. You know, before the Bettman took the NHL in the current sanitized finesse direction.

    For a guy with that many penalty minutes, unafraid to take on anyone (Probert & McSorley come immediately to mind), the hardest shot in the league for a time and still holds the Leafs record for post season goals, I would say honouring him is the least they could do.

    Does anyone remember his final game for the Leafs? He hit the damned goal post ... yes the post, didn't score and still received a nearly three minute standing O from the crowd simply because he was playing like the Clark of old. Gritty, determined, and unconcerned for his own health so his team could stand a chance at a win.
  64. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: 40 years of Newfie jokes are A-OK...

    Six months of TO jokes.... Waah!

    Babies !
  65. Martin Fedgrass from Canada writes: The only stupid people are the ones who mindlessly shell out hundreds of dollars to watch the farce on the ice at the Air canada centre
  66. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Middle Finger... check my post at 11:37pm last night. I answered your question the first time you posted it.

    The ROC hates/bashes/laughs at Toronto out of jealousy.

    That and the fact that Toronto keeps voting Liberal (something that ticks me off too).

    Cheers
  67. Neil No more last name from Mississauga, Canada writes: Hap is rolling a J. He will return shortly
  68. j q from Canada writes: Jeff, living in a city like Toronto is similar to having the world at your doorstep with so many different people from such diverse backgrounds. The first thing you learn to do is not prejudge or assume how others you come into contact think in any situation. While you do expect a level of civility and decency of intent, you tend to give people the benefit of the doubt until you hear what they have to say. Thereafter, you judge them by there words and deeds.

    As for these comment sections, I take the same approach in that since I do not know the person on the other side of the keyboard, it is their words that give them credibility or reveal them as trolls. For many of the anti-TO crowd, they've already stated their negative leanings so unless they are willing to discuss in a civil fashion, there isn't much point going forward. However, we should call them out for what they are!
  69. Neil No more last name from Mississauga, Canada writes: Miller - You think I sit around all day waiting for Newfoundland articles to pop up online so I can berate the province and it's people? Do you think anyone does?

    6 Months my @ss, i've been hearing it for years.
  70. Captain Ontario from Canada writes: Madax,

    'Private bodyguards'?

    Put down your crack-pipe, and go clean mummy's garage!

    As someone who shared drinks with Doug in various Kingston bars, those 'body guards' were just regular, nasty, mean ol' biker gang members.
  71. j q from Canada writes: Scot wrote, '...That and the fact that Toronto keeps voting Liberal (something that ticks me off too).'

    In this case if you are going to be ticked, I think you should be ticked off at the electoral system which aggravates the regional and party politics in the country. If 55% of voters check off Liberals or Conservatives in Toronto or Calgary, it means that 45% have voted for other parties but our electoral system results in all representation going to one party. We reinforce party politics and regional biases with an electoral system that does reflect Canada in 2008.

    I guess one can say the same thing about the number of leaf haters constantly posting on these stories. While they may represent the most vocal and extreme, they probably don't reflect the variety of opinion of most canadians across the country.
  72. Captain Ontario from Canada writes: Look at these lying smears.

    Gilmour will forever be a hero.

    It's sweet he got that huge Chicago deal to set him up for life.

    Two of the all-time GREATS.
  73. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: C'mon, Centre of the Universe guys....

    Quit it with all the ROC hates us crap...

    I don't hate Loucks or any other TO posters for that matter, but look at the stuff currently going on at HNIT and the fan reaction against their systemic bias (another big word that I learned from Rex Murphy)...

    Try to see the bigger picture here.

    Cheers
  74. j q from Canada writes: Correction, ...We reinforce party politics and regional biases with an electoral system that does not reflect Canada in 2008.'
  75. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: jq I think you mean doesn't reflect Canada in 2008... which I agree with

    cheers
  76. Captain Ontario from Canada writes: Toronto Leaf Nation is going to make sure DION is elected, and the Green Shift happens and Alberta will pay for big new spending programs and within 3 years as the oil price plummets there will be more stories of 'Oilers to Hamilton' and 'Can the Flames survive' and 'Oklahoma Flames?' and covers of McLeans with 'What happened? As a bleak picture of a wrecked environment and an unemployed Newfoundlander with big scared eyes like that woman in the famous picture in National Geographic hits the news-shelves and the Globe ponders life in the West under a carbon tax with $50 oil and presents stories of un-paid mortgages and broken dreams.

    Just like in the 1980's.

    All BECAUSE OF THE RULE OF LEAF NATION UNDER THE GUIDANCE OF GENERAL FLETCHER AND MAJORS GILMOUR AND CLARK!
  77. J R from Halifax, Canada writes: Neil No More....the jabs come from both sides and jabs I don't care about. My question was not that I was offended, rather curious as to if he thinks we actually feel badly for living here which is why I asked for an explanation

    . And if you have read other posts of mine I don't really have a lot of respect for fans of either side who chose to take shots at each others home town. It's not like we live somewhere we do not chose to. If I want to go back to TO I will....and likely that will happen when my son is a bit older.

    Problem for me is I am a leaf fan and supporter of the great city of Toronto so when this crap happens all of a sudden I find myself firing back at the people I usually support and in some way supporting the people (Miller, Carriere) that I usually debate!
  78. John Smith from Toronto, Canada writes: Wendel Clark?? Please. Who's next, Tie Domi??

    And the only person who ran Doug Gilmour out of town was Doug Gilmour.

    My, how the standards of greatness have fallen.
  79. j q from Canada writes: Miller, if you cut the 'Center of the Universe' crap, there might be some hope going forward. Otherwise, don't expect to be treated like anything other than a troll.

    The commentators here don't represent the CBC, TSN, HNIC, the Leafs, the Liberal or Conservative party, Santa Clause or Miller light draft! The regular contributors like Scot and I, attempt to exchange views on hockey in general and the Leafs specifically, similar to supporters of other teams. We are respectful and stay on subject when commenting on other team's articles.

    If you react to Leaf trolls (of which there are admittedly more than a few), in a like fashion, then you become a troll yourself.
  80. Captain Ontario from Canada writes: John Smith from Toronto, Canada writes: Wendel Clark?? Please. Who's next, Tie Domi??

    And the only person who ran Doug Gilmour out of town was Doug Gilmour.

    My, how the standards of greatness have fallen.
    ______________________

    You shouldn't talk about greatness. You know nothing about it.

    Write about humility and defeat. Of being overlooked and beaten.

    Tell us YOUR story. Or stick to commenting on the canadian men's basketball team, right up your alley.
  81. Levitt2 Beaver from Golden Lake, Canada writes: Scot Loudks....I know first hand what Mr. Gilmour is like. Live your hockey fantasy about this man. He was a good hockey player, that is it. Off the ice he is no man's man at all. The true measure of a man is how he treats those people who love him. Being abusive to every women you married is in my view not the measue of a great man.
  82. j q from Canada writes: JR, ignore any and all trolls. You can't control what they write, but you can call them out for their inane comments in a civil manner.

    In the case of Gilmour, are we honouring a hockey player for his on ice performance after the fact; or his behaviour off the ice; or both? If the latter, are we going to review the off ice behaviour of all players honoured in the past and in the future?
  83. Neil No more last name from Mississauga, Canada writes: j q - great post at 2:53pm
  84. Captain Ontario from Canada writes: Levitt2 Beaver from Golden Lake, Canada writes: Scot Loudks....I know first hand what Mr. Gilmour is like. Live your hockey fantasy about this man. He was a good hockey player, that is it. Off the ice he is no man's man at all. The true measure of a man is how he treats those people who love him. Being abusive to every women you married is in my view not the measue of a great man.
    ___________________________

    levvit2beaver, did he promise he loved you and then leave without even a good-bye?

    Tragic!
  85. John Smith from Toronto, Canada writes: To Captain Ontario,

    'stick to commenting on the canadian men's basketball team, right up your alley. '

    Ummmm....I think you have me confused with a different John Smith. I don't know what you're talking about.

  86. J R from Halifax, Canada writes: jq

    Actually you only turn into a troll if BITTEN by a troll......or was that vampires?

    Nevermind I can't remember...

    Loucks....how is the golf game? Need you in top form when we take on Miller and Carierre next summer!
  87. Captain Ontario from Canada writes: John Smith from Toronto, Canada writes: To Captain Ontario,

    'stick to commenting on the canadian men's basketball team, right up your alley. '

    Ummmm....I think you have me confused with a different John Smith. I don't know what you're talking about.
    ___________

    Stick to what you know: losing.
  88. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Levitt2 Beaver from Golden Lake..... You missed my point.

    He is being honoured for what he did on the ice. (as j q said).

    What's the matter... did he marry your sister? Lots of players and ex players have off ice problems. The life style afforded to professional athletes requires a special kind of woman to deal with.

    Lots of players find those women. Lots don't.

    Cheers
  89. j q from Canada writes: JR, well at least it is not like being infected in the movie series, Alien, or X-Files!
  90. Captain Ontario from Canada writes: These trolls attacking Gilmour lack the understanding that:

    If you have money you attract lots of gold-digging women.

    The trolls don't have money and can't understand this.
  91. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: J R from Halifax writes: Loucks....how is the golf game? Need you in top form when we take on Miller and Carierre next summer!

    .... think Greg Norman on Sunday. Of course Miller can't break 100 .... so that shouldn't be problem.

    Cheers
  92. Proud Canadian from Canada, Canada writes: Captain Ontario from Canada writes '''''Ottawa...one year fluke...like an ugly guy scoring at a lesbian convention with free booze.'''''' Captain, the parade's are in your city yearly. Get out of your Mom's basement bathroom and get the information you need to make an intelligent statement.
  93. Billy Talon from Toronto, Canada writes: R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: C'mon, Centre of the Universe guys....

    Quit it with all the ROC hates us crap...

    I don't hate Loucks or any other TO posters for that matter, but look at the stuff currently going on at HNIT and the fan reaction against their systemic bias (another big word that I learned from Rex Murphy)...

    Try to see the bigger picture here.

    Cheers

    ***

    Like I said earlier - I could care less if the ROC 'hates' us or makes fun of us.

    You're just as arrogant as some Leaf fans - using the term 'Centre of the Universe guys' in your posts...Please...

    As for HNIC, why is that Leaf fans fault that they show the Leafs every Sat night?

    Go complain to your buddies at the CBC...
  94. J R from Halifax, Canada writes: Loucks,

    Too funny. I wear 17 too because of Clark. Looks like we can't play on the same team...although with you being older I guess I should give my number up out of respect!
  95. Proud Canadian from Canada, Canada writes: Clark and Gilmour are both greats who played for the Leafs and deserve to be honoured. No matter one's affiliation. But you gets guys like Captain Ontario and his hogwash postings, u get guys like Loucks and his intelligent postings and attempts at trying to rite the ship. If everyone looked at the big picture, both Gilmour and Clark are loved in Toronto, let them do what they want. If you have other affiliations in hockey, worry about your city, not Toronto's. Sometimes, give them credit, Toronto does something right, which is this.
  96. Fed Up And Had Enough from Canada writes: I've lived in the same neighbourhood as Doug Gilmour and I certainly didn't hear anything negative about him, and certainly not that he beat his wife.....levitt 2 beaver, where are you getting this stuff? Can you point me in the direction of an article, or a police report or some sort of proof? Or are you just throwing junk accusations around for the effect?????
  97. j q from Canada writes: 'Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama vowed on Tuesday to work for a ...”

    Our education system must be lacking when readers can't appropriately register the meaning '...work for a breakthrough...' However, it is probably more of an intended omission to fit into their political positions.
  98. Neil No more last name from Mississauga, Canada writes: J R - didn't mean to imply anything except prejudice stinks, no?

    j q - I'm hardly trolling
  99. j q from Canada writes: Last posting, Sorry wrong article.
  100. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: As stated before, I play hockey not golf... :)

    Real men play hockey first !

    Golf comes later in life...

    Sorry, Loucks, but JR's post about giving you up his #17 sweater to you because you were older made me laugh out loud.

    Cheers
  101. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Looks like Carriere is now on the Blue, Blanc et Rouge team for that upcoming game for having spoken the truth ?

    Excellent...

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