Skip navigation

 Login or Register | Member Centre

McGuinty challenges Ontarians to shed cloak of complacency

KAREN HOWLETT

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 4:21 PM EST 22/07/08

Ontario Premier says campaign for a fairer deal from Ottawa has taken on new urgency with soaring oil prices ...Read the full article

This conversation is closed

  1. D G from Canada writes: The west (Alberta in particular) share it's wealth? Or willingly help out the rest of Canada when they are down? Not bloody likely.
  2. David Griffith from NS, Canada writes: Ottawa to McGuinty: 'Lower Your Damned Taxes.'
  3. Trenton McLeod from Hamilton, Canada writes:
    I agree 1000% with Mr. McGuinty. Ontario has played fair over the years, supporting fellow Canadians and not complaining. Well, the tide has changed and Ontario can no longer afford to be quite as generous. I hope the rest of the country will side with us re getting Ottawa to listen and to institute appropriate change.
  4. Life Is Good from Canada writes: This from a man that just gave himslf a one time 25 k raise. He could lead by example.
  5. The Real PS from Canada writes: McGuinty should go and read this short and very informative paper.

    http://www.ucalgary.ca/iaprfiles/policybriefs/iapr-pb-0503.pdf
  6. Not the Alliance from In my opinion, The Harper Gov't is totally Incompetent, but excel at whining that it's ALWAYS somebody else's fault. Did I mention they lie constantly too?, Canada writes: Will be interesting to see if Flaherty's proxy war with Ontario will continue. Votes, votes, votes..... Will Harper keep the idiot Finance Minister's mouth taped re: Ontario? Will Harper give Flaherty the go-ahead to loosen the purse strings? How much does Harper need the Ontario vote and how much of the Treasury will he spend to get it?

    Oh, I'm SURE he's worried about the Ontario economy too... LOL!!
  7. Censured Comments from Canada writes: David Griffith from NS, if Ontario lowered its taxes we would not be able to support your province.
  8. bruce weaver from Canada writes: Cut the civil service, cut Ontario Hydro, cut other beurocracy first. Then I will listen.
  9. Michael B from Canada writes: Life Is Good from Canada writes: This from a man that just gave himslf a one time 25 k raise. He could lead by example.
    -----------------
    Uh, way to discuss something completely unrelated. 20 billion vs 25 k. Equalization vs Premier's pay.

    What the hell is your problem?

    Want to tell us all about the Premier's pay, what it was, what is has been, if it's gone up in the past while, what other premiers get paid, why it went up, etc? Otherwise you're just throwing out a piece of info without any context, which is an obvious attempt at misinformation.
  10. Martyn Whitt from toronto, Canada writes: Hey premier cut the civil service cut income taxes a snitch, and drastically cut business tax...simple stuff do I come work for you as a consultant cause I'm doing better than anybody who's advising you currently!!!!???
  11. Ghengis Khan from Canada writes: D G.....you're kidding, right?
    Alberta's wealth didn't just come from the goop in the ground. It came from year after year of Klein's belt tightening...even when times were good. It came from the sweat and hard work of Alberta's workers. Now Alberta is debt free at a time which happens to coincide with high energy prices. Therefore, record surplus. If Alberta is now (re)building infrastructure and improving the lives of the people who earned it, who is the rest of the country to begrudge them that? If energy prices were not what they are today and the manufacturing sector was booming, I will guarantee you that Ontario would not be writing cheques to help out Alberta.
    Alberta already pays their fair share to the rest of the country....many would and could argue that it is more than fair. Perhaps some of the 'have not' provinces should reconsider their business strategy (spending habits) and figure out how they can make life better for their residents.
    Instead of pointing the finger outward.....point inward first.
  12. Not the Alliance from In my opinion, The Harper Gov't is totally Incompetent, but excel at whining that it's ALWAYS somebody else's fault. Did I mention they lie constantly too?, Canada writes: Life Is Good from Canada writes: 'This from a man that just gave himslf a one time 25 k raise. He could lead by example.'

    Hey, the pay raise was one of those rare issues where the liberals and conservatives put their partisan differences on the shelf. Voted almost unanimously by BOTH parties. Even Tory - then the dope opens his mouth, loses the election and loses HIS OWN SEAT!! Tory is SO incompetent he should run for the Federal 'conservatives'.
  13. K M from Canada writes: The west share its wealth, not likely. Interesting, lets go back to the beginning of confederation and note that the economic history of Canada has always been to take raw materials out of the west, and then ship expensive manufactured goods from the east. Ergo, the west supplied the materials at reduced rate then had to buy the good sout of the east at over inflated rates. It still costs almost twice as much to ship a bag of nails from the west to Ontario, than it is to this the same bag from Ontario out west. Why is that? Because the railways and the governments have always looked out after the east and established the country in a way that cause the west to constantly support the east through paying high prices for cheap goods while not getting a fair price for their raw materials. Then, when oil began to go up in price, the east estalbished the NEP and continued to steal income out of the west in order to support the east. Now, oil is back up, and finally the west is in a position to say no more. You have raped us since the beginning of confederation, now its time you went through the same economic conditions we have had to put up with for over 100 years. And for your information, the west also pays into the equalization formula. Neither Alberta nor Saskatchewan recieve equalization now that oil prices are high, yet they still pay into the federal coffers. So maybe, you should point your finger at other economies, that refuse to change and continue to receive huge payouts from the federal government in order to produce and favorable environment for the next election...hmmm..oh say Quebec?
  14. James Cyr from Balmertown Ontario, Canada writes: Maybe McGuinty should lower taxes in his own province before whining to the Federal government.
  15. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: So Ottawa and western Canada are putting the 'brakes' on Ontario's economy? That's an interesting way of looking at it. Speaking of brakes on the economy, thus far Dalton has A) Raised corporate taxes B) Implemented a new healthcare tax on middle income earners C) Supported Dion's call for a carbon tax while at the same time whining about higher fuel prices. Why would the west and Ottawa need to apply the brakes on behalf of Ontario? Sounds like Dalton has himself in a nice, controlled skid, with his own foot firmly on the brake pedal.

    Ontario might very well have a case to receive a bigger share from the federal government. But couching that case in terms of being victimized by the success of others will only earn Ontario contempt in the rest of the country.
  16. David Griffith from NS, Canada writes: Censured Comments from Canada writes: David Griffith from NS, if Ontario lowered its taxes we would not be able to support your province.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    LOL,that's rich. Given the mess that McGuinty's Ontario is in now, and the fact that NS and NF are coming into some oil, I suspect YOU folks will need the support, not us. But then of course the Dion Green shaft would nicely funnel some of the success of the west into Liberal voting Ontario. See, the thing is, Censured, Canada isn't really all that bad off economically, as a whole. The locus of ecomomic power has simply shifted. That's bad for Ontario. Now they can see how other parts of the country have fared as 'have-nots'. A nice education on the rest of the country, beyond Ontario's borders, that they forgot existed.
  17. D G from Canada writes: Gimme a break Genghis - you bloody well know that Ontario would be writing you that very cheque - and it wouldn't be the first time we have helped you out. I have never heard as much ill thought out advice and bitching about what other provinces need than that which comes from Alberta. There seems to be this pervasive attitude in Alberta that only Albertans work hard. Newsflash - it wasn't hard work that put the oil there and if you guys don't soon get some decent leadership on managing it you might at some point find yourself buying barrels of water from Ontario.

    Ontario has helped out every part of the country for decades (and rarely, if ever complained or acted so holier than thou about it as Alberta now does re their energy wealth) so I think we have a huge one up on you on the 'we pay our fair share' argument.
  18. Michael B from Canada writes: The Real PS from Canada writes: McGuinty should go and read this short and very informative paper.

    http://www.ucalgary.ca/iaprfiles/policybriefs/iapr-pb-0503.pdf
    ---------------------
    Wow. That's the level of what comes out of profs in calgary? Ew. I could have written better essays when I was in my 1st year of university.

    He was doing ok with his info until he decided that Ontario can't have a problem with the size of our fiscal imbalance because Alberta has a large fiscal imbalance as well. Then he spent the rest of his paper trashing Martin's government.

    He never once mentioned the ridiculous amount of money coming out of Alberta's oil, a boon that is tremendously beneficial to them while being tremendously painful to Ontario as it raises the Canadian dollar and inflation while providing absolutely no benefit to us. As an economist, this could have been a point that he'd bring up to explain why Ontario shouldn't have such a big fiscal imbalance, except that he's likely an angry little neo-con who's writing in order to please some rich oil-boss in Calgary.
  19. Prairie Boy from Canada writes: Perhaps an analogy of Ont.'s position on cap ant trade will explain it. I heard it on a radio program. Cap and trade is like paying someone to not cheat on your spouse so you can do it.. or eating 4000 calories a day and paying someone else to keep you thin.

    Sask wants to cap and reduce. We choose to penalize and fix the problem.

    Fix the problems.
  20. The Religious Left from Canada writes:
    Ghengis Khan from Canada writes: If energy prices were not what they are today and the manufacturing sector was booming, I will guarantee you that Ontario would not be writing cheques to help out Alberta.

    Yes they would. That's exactly the point. No, Ontario wouldn't be writing any EXTRA checks, just the regular 20billion. Doesn't that count?
  21. boz dobbs from toronto, Canada writes: It seems Dalton can,t keep up hiring public servants at breakneck speed anymore.I guess Dalton,s Dole is starting to dry up.The gap between what Ontario sends Ottawa is simply a result in the belief in progressive taxation and equalization payments,which one of those two would Mr.Mcguinty choose to abandon?.I,m sure Quebec would be interested in his answer.
  22. a brown from OutWest, Canada writes: As a born and raised Westerner (minus three years of university in Toronto) I say 'go for it Dalton'. I've lived and worked my entire life in western Canada - in every western Canadian province. My political leanings are liberal, I believe a country like Canada needs a strong, unifying central government, and I strongly support a sytem of economic equalization that works towards ensuring ALL Canadians, no matter where they live - receive at least a modicum of equal serivices and supports; call it a Canadian standard of living. Economic equalization programs are not unique to Canada (though many right wingers would like you to believe so) but can be found in EVERY western democracy. They are an intregal component of modern nationhood. But today's reality is that Canada's current equaliztion formula - developed within a differnt economic environment is no longer tenable. Resource wealth MUST be considered much more than it is within the current formula. For many years Ontario and its powerhouse ecomony carried the bulk of the eqaulization load, now, as an economy becomes much more weighted to energy and raw resources Equalization's formula needs to address this fundamental change. This is one westerner who thinks Dalton McGuinty is spot on. Fair is fair.
  23. Dennis sinneD from Calgary, Canada writes:

    'The system is so badly broken, every time oil goes up we pay more,' he said.

    no kidding...
  24. Not the Alliance from In my opinion, The Harper Gov't is totally Incompetent, but excel at whining that it's ALWAYS somebody else's fault. Did I mention they lie constantly too?, Canada writes: Warning to Harper supporters - careful on your McGuinty bashing. Harper needs votes in Ontario, so you might want to temper your criticisms for now. Otherwise you'll look pretty silly after Harper does something expensive with our tax dollars and you have to do 180's and praise how the Feds are helping out 'struggling Ontario'.

    LOL!
  25. Jack Robertson from Toronto, Canada writes: When will McGuinty take the brakes off his brain?
  26. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    McGuinty likes NEP2.

    Go for it, Dalton.

    Make our day.
  27. D Le5 from Canada writes: Are Ontario Corporate taxes higher than the Federal?
    Would reducing Provincial taxes increase money to be spent in Ontario infrastructure?
    Would that reduce the amunt of money the Feds take?

    The desire for other provinces to see Ontario fail is quite depressing.
    Maturity has gone to the wayside in Canada.

    Perhaps Alberta and NL will demonstrate how not to be arrogant when times are good as they endlessly accuse Ontario of doing so.
  28. Ned Chiwalski from Oilberta, Canada writes: DG from Canada, Why should Albreta, or Sask. share its wealth with the rest of the country any more than we already do? We've been screwed over by Ottawa in the past when the NEP was brought in, under a lib govt.
    If Ont whined less and oh I don't know, REDUCES THEIR TAXES to make a more investment friendly environment, perhaps they wouldn't be in the situation they're in now!
  29. Green Canada from Canada writes: Daniel Larusso from Canada writes: Why can't Dalton just pull up his boot straps and do something about Ontario's economy instead of just whining and complaining?
    Constantly blaming others is counter-productive and unbecoming a Premier.
    _________________________________________________

    The exact same could be said for the west particularly Alberta --the whole political world here is based on fallacious arguments about west versus east. It continues because the politicians recognize it's their only idea that maintains voters. The masses buy into it at the expense of good local governance.
  30. mech eng from calgary, Canada writes: Oh I just LOVE how they manage to drag Alberta into this without mentioning the fact that Albertans already are contributing MORE per capita than Ontario. If there is any province that is in a more unfair position than Ontario, it's Alberta.

    By all means, let's make this fair...scrap equalization entirely and let Alberta keep all of their money.
  31. Neil - conservative from Metro Vancouver, Canada writes: OK, Dalton, if you want to recuperate the $20 Billion your province claims to lose each year to fund Manitoba and Eastward then Alberta should be allowed to recuperate the $16 Billion sent each year out the province. After all, fair is fair, right?

    McGuinty the economist: 'The system is so badly broken, every time oil goes up we pay more.'

    Wow, that just blew my mind. When oil prices rise.....people pay more for it. I never would have guessed that. Geez, he sounds like George Bush without the Texan accent.

    'This widening gap between the west and Central Canada could see Ontario collecting equalization payments for the first time by 2010, he said.'

    So, the people of Alberta, Sask don't deserve a capitalized 'W' in their 'west?' That doesn't seem like a fair deal to me.

    It seems every time McGuinty opens his mouth he gets an article with the Globe and Mail. Relations between the two Liberals are so chummy that this article's title is 'McGuinty to Ottawa,' not Ontario, but McGuinty.

    Hey, Doolin' Dalton, why don't you follow the examples BC and Alberta have set and put the brakes on racist funding for Catholic schools in your province. Make a choice: fund all religions, or fund none. We see your Catholic agenda.
  32. Captain Ontario from Canada writes: ONTARIO FINALLY STANDS UP FOR HERSELF!

    Either FREE ONTARIO FROM THE SHACKLES OF BEING THE RICH UNCLE FOR THE POOR REGIONS.

    OR, DEMAND OTTAWA PAY IT'S FAIR SHARE!

    WAY TO GO MCGUINTY!
  33. Roop Misir from Toronto, Canada writes: With oil tending to move to more realistic levels, perhaps Mr. McGuinty may wish to wait and see!
  34. Dennis sinneD from Calgary, Canada writes:

    The Real PS from Canada writes: 'McGuinty should go and read this short and very informative paper.

    http://www.ucalgary.ca/iaprfiles/policybriefs/iapr-pb-0503.pdf'

    The effects of NEPI are quite visible on graph 2 shown in this paper.

    It's interesting to note the rising 'wave' effect seen in per capita tax increases hitting Ontarians after Alberta was drained of it's prosperity.

    If this can indeed be attributed to the NEPI debacle, NEPII (Green Shaft) would, without a doubt, sink the good ship Canada.
  35. Neil - conservative from Metro Vancouver, Canada writes: Correction: McGuinty could follow BC and Alberta's funding of all religions, or he could stop altogether. BC and Alberta did not cut off funding for Catholic schools, sorry about that.
  36. R. M. from Regina, Canada writes: To D G from Canada. And how do you think the East built up its population and wealth, on the strength of its own resources or from cheap resources shipped to the east, manufactured/refined and shipped back to the West at high prices?
  37. Blue Magic ...... from Mississauga,, Canada writes: Worst premier in Ontario's history.

    It's always someone elses fault, Cut are damn taxes Mcguinty. If Mcguinty had of listen to Flaherty a stimulus would just now be working it's way through the ontario economy(while oil prices are droping right now). Instead this clown of a premier just Blames Harris the west and Harper.

    Mcguity is just as bad a premier as Rae was. The guy has no economic sense at all. Mcguinty's idea of helping the economy is giving millions to criquet clubs.
  38. daryl M from calgary, Canada writes: Wow, seems lots of Ontario folks don't like Alberta. mech eng from calgary is correct, Alberta pays far more per capita than Ontario into equalization, and has done so for a long time.
  39. Charles Rowe from Canada writes: I do believe that the rest of Canada has been transferring back to Ontario for many years in the form of a higher percentage of Federal jobs than has been their share. These Federal employees work and 'pay taxes' in their province. Taxes which only partially come from the residents of Ontario. We also have to include the impact of having these number of well paying jobs resident in Ontario that have a broader impact across the economy. I doubt there is much inequity as McGuinty believes.

    On another note no Provincial government should be giving grants to manufacturing companies so they can continue to run inefficient operations. If the good people of Ontario need jobs, there are plenty of them in Alberta. We'd be happy to have you.
  40. R M from Canada writes: Everyone is avoiding discussing the reason that Ontario's economy is in a slump. The manufacturing jobs are going to Mexico and offshore and unless people are willing to match wages with India and Mexico those jobs are not coming back.

    Maybe there needs to be more discussion on how to smooth the transition of unemployed people from Ontario to other areas of Canada where skilled workers are very badly needed.
  41. Babbleon ! from Sarnia, Canada writes: Mr Flaherty tried to help Dalton but you spurned him,Ontario is going to get some tough love from THE Feds.
  42. Ned Chiwalski from Oilberta, Canada writes: McGuinty just doesn't want to be known as the premier that was in power when the power shifted in Canada from Ontario to the West!

    What a legacy!
  43. Randal Oulton from Toronto, Canada writes: Would the Premier then restore eyecare to the people of this province?
  44. Jen Dobson from Canada writes: This is something maybe Alberta should be fighting for too, since they also pay alot more then they get back. In fact this might be one of the few issues where Alberta and Ontario are on exactly the same page and fighting the same fight. A nice change.

    Whatever spending Ontario has is irrelevant to this issue.
  45. daryl M from calgary, Canada writes: Randal Oulton from Toronto, good idea about restoring eyecare funding....maybe then Ontario folks wouldn't be ticking the Liberal box on their ballots. :>
  46. Jen Dobson from Canada writes: 'mech eng from calgary, Canada writes: Oh I just LOVE how they manage to drag Alberta into this without mentioning the fact that Albertans already are contributing MORE per capita than Ontario. If there is any province that is in a more unfair position than Ontario, it's Alberta.
    '

    Yes but that is because the average income in Alberta is higher then then Ontario.

    Thus the only true measure of fairness must compare per capita income versus per capita equalization payments. I have yet to see a chart that does this but I'd love to see one. Based on the paper posted above and the figures it has, a rough glance shows that Alberta is not being screwed, they are paying exactly what they should based on the current formulas.
  47. daryl M from calgary, Canada writes: Jen Dobson from Canada wake up. It's total dollars sent to Ottawa vs. population, and services received back, not a person's income.
  48. mech eng from calgary, Canada writes: Why don't Dalton and the G&M tell the truth.

    There are only two options here.

    Maybe they want to eliminate equalization, because Dalton has done a poor job of managing Ontario's economy. Essentially they want to claw back all the payments being made to the Maritimes, Quebec, etc.

    Or maybe they want even more from the 'have' provinces. In which case they want even more from Alberta, Newfoundland, Sask, etc.

    Which is it? Every article I've seen is just whining about the problem and not explaining which group of Canadians Dalton and the G&M feel should pay for their inflated bureaucracy and manufacturing industry subsidies.

    It is dishonest to just whine about a 'problem' without proposing a solution.

    Again I ask....WHO DO YOU WANT TO PAY FOR YOUR PROVINCE DALTON?
  49. Rich fisher from Human Rights Detention Centre, Canada writes: Largest tax increase in Ontario's history after McLiar signed a (his words) 'legal document' promising not to raise taxes.

    Who put the oversized titanium porsche red brakes on what used to be the most successful province ?

    Like all good socialists , McIdiot's solution to his newly minted problem will be to ,......(anyone , anyone ), that's right ,' raise taxes'.

  50. Jeremy K from Canada writes: ma its difficult to run a democracy when idiots like genghis khan truly beleive the crap they are spouting. how do you make decisions when opinion is divided between fools?
  51. Joseph Bloggins from Canada writes: D G from Canada......you are an idiot.

    Just so you know (not that you would care), Alberta sends about 140 percent of the national average tax take per person to Ottawa.

    Albertans are also by far the largest per capita contributors to equalization, giving the equivalent of more than $3,000 per man, woman and child in the province every year. Ontario's contribution is about $1,800 per year.

    You really are a bum, aren't you?
  52. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Ireland lowered it's corporate taxes and pulled itself out of decades of economic drought.

    McGuinty will not even consider this.
    McGuinty needs a strong tax base (read: high taxes) in order to fund his socially progressive social programs.

    McGuinty wants his cake and he wants to eat it, too.

    McGuinty wants corporate welfare.
    And he wants the West to pay for it.

    BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan all have provinces.
    All right wing.

    Ontario, a have-not province.
    Left wing.

    We see right through your socialist eyes, Dalton.
    Get stuffed.
  53. Jen Dobson from Canada writes: 'daryl M from calgary, Canada writes: Jen Dobson from Canada wake up. It's total dollars sent to Ottawa vs. population, and services received back, not a person's income'

    WRONG. Equalization is based on the average income of the people in the province. That is the whole point - that some provinces have more high income citizens then others, and thus collect more taxes.

    Thus any comparison must factor in the average income. The higher the average income, then the more per capita that you pay. That's literally how it works. You can't just compare population to payments or you are missing a key peice of the puzzle.
  54. John Smith from Ottawa, Canada writes: Ottawa to McGuinty: Shut the He!! up.
  55. The West is Booming from Canada writes: McGuinty should cut taxes in Ontario and stop whining about equalization. He is beginning to sound like the childish Daniel Williams.
  56. mech eng from calgary, Canada writes: Um Jen, if you look at 'per capita income vs. per capita equalization' the 'per capita's' cancel each other out, and you are looking at a income to equalization ratio.

    I am not saying that what Alberta pays or doesn't pay is fair or unfair. I'm saying is that Dalton and the G&M are presenting an argument along the lines of:

    'Ontario is being treated unfairly. Look how good Alberta is doing. Hint. Hint. Give us more and let Alberta shoulder the weight.'

    Considering the 'unfairness' is based upon the equalization program, I hardly see how skewing the program so that Alberta pays even more into it solves the problem. Well, that's not true. It solves the problem for Ontario at the expense of Alberta.
  57. Rich fisher from Human Rights Detention Centre, Canada writes: 'Ontario launches $741-million diabetes strategy'... with no plans to pay for it.
  58. Jen Dobson from Canada writes: Michael Sharp - what about the rest of the provinces?

    How come the left-wing Ontario is STILL a have province and has been for years? How come Ontario STILL has the second highest average income of any provinces? Higher then Saskatchewan and BC?

    You, like many, reduce complex problems to ridiculously simple partisan talking points. The only reason Ontario is even remotely hurt right now is because of the high dollar.

    I don't see anywhere where Ontario said they want the West to pay for anything. Where in the article did he say that?

    If you are from the West I would think you would support his initiative, since if he is successful it will mean Alberta will pay less in equalization payments also.
  59. Chris E. from Canada writes: Southern Ontario is a vast expanse of housing and population that grew too rapidly, a suburban wasteland with no sustainability.

    The jobs have gone to China, India, and Mexico, and now the belt-tightening is going to hurt.

    The immigrants who flooded to Ontario over the past two decades looking for prosperity aren't going home; they look to McGuilty to pull the magic levers that will give them employment.
  60. daryl M from calgary, Canada writes: Jen Dobson you are wrong.
  61. Beer and Popcorn from Toronto, Canada writes:
    Cut business taxes, stop paying outrageous salaries to unions and cut personal income tax rates.

    Ontario needs to address it's lack of conpetitiveness first as opposed to pulling a David Miller and just crying for more federal money.
  62. 100% Conservative from Victoria BC, Canada writes: I don't know how the people of Ontario handle this clown of a Premier. I feel very sorry for Ontarions especially as I was born there then again in a few years they will have an opportunity to get rid of this bum!
  63. Jen Dobson from Canada writes: 'mech eng from calgary, Canada writes: I am not saying that what Alberta pays or doesn't pay is fair or unfair. I'm saying is that Dalton and the G&M are presenting an argument along the lines of:

    'Ontario is being treated unfairly. Look how good Alberta is doing. Hint. Hint. Give us more and let Alberta shoulder the weight.''

    What are you talking about!?!?! Where did McGuinty say he wants Alberta to pay??? Alberta ALSO suffers from equalization. Any changes that are made to the equalization program would help Alberta just as much as Ontario.

    This is an issue where Alberta and Ontario are in it together. Why are you talking about it as if they are against each other? Are you really that partisan?
  64. Rich fisher from Human Rights Detention Centre, Canada writes: There's always room on the payroll for another Barbara Hall.

    Can't get elected,... call a McGuinty, he'll find room on the payroll for one more socialist empire builder/nest featherer/ teatsucker.
  65. Not the Alliance from In my opinion, The Harper Gov't is totally Incompetent, but excel at whining that it's ALWAYS somebody else's fault. Did I mention they lie constantly too?, Canada writes: Joseph Bloggins from Canada writes: 'Just so you know (not that you would care), Alberta sends about 140 percent of the national average tax take per person to Ottawa.

    Albertans are also by far the largest per capita contributors to equalization, giving the equivalent of more than $3,000 per man, woman and child in the province every year. Ontario's contribution is about $1,800 per year.

    You really are a bum, aren't you? '

    Oh give me a break. It's great that Alberta is doing well and is contributing to the country. But your criticisms of Ontario neglect to mention that Ontario has been contributing since Confederation - no other province can make that claim.

    And again, I would just advise all the Harper supporters to temper your criticisms of Ontario - because Harper NEEDS Ontario. So when he makes his move you're all going to look pretty foolish unless you come back here and criticize Harper for helping out your hated Ontario - which he WILL do because he needs the votes.
  66. C T.O. from Toronto, Canada writes: When will Ontario dumpt this crazy crutch of a country and go its own way!
  67. C T.O. from Toronto, Canada writes: Alberta should go too!
  68. Fake Name from Canada writes: 'The Religious Left from Canada writes:
    That's exactly the point. No, Ontario wouldn't be writing any EXTRA checks, just the regular 20billion. Doesn't that count? '

    Of course not; the ROC is entitled to its entitlements.

    All kidding aside though, I don't know why Alberta seems to be fighting this instead of demanding the same. Fed's should be taking less from both provinces.

    & 100% Conservative ... the chance to boot Dalty-boy in a couple years isn't going to matter much if the alternative is something insane like John Tory's plan to fund jihadist and young-earth creationist schools. I'd rather have a tanking economy than see my taxes funding religious brain-washing.
  69. Terry F from Edmonton, Canada writes: Considering that Confederation was set up to favour Ontario and Quebec, it's a bit rich hearing about how noble and caring Ontarians have been to the rest of Canada. Give me a break. Until McGuinty does what he needs to do a la Ralph Klein, he'll get no sympathy.
  70. Dave Roberts from Toronto, Canada writes: McGuinty's only accomplishment to date has been to raise our taxes and make Ontario a have-not province. He's actually starting to make Bob Rae look like a good premier.
  71. David Lorne from White Rock, Canada writes: Maybe Ontario would be willing to sell a few Senate seats to raise some izzy cash?
  72. RJ McCrae from Canada writes: How does Mr McGuinty propose to lower Ontario's share paid in taxes? Have a lower Federal rate of tax for Ontario or perhaps deport people from the Ontario to the other Provinces to balance out the population across the country. When will he get the fact that Ontario pays more to the Federal coffers because Ontario has approx. 40% of the population and that it is not some great conspiracy perpetrated by the PM and other Premiers to make him look incompetent? He doesn't need help in that department. If
    McGuinty just took 1% of the time he wastes thinking of ways to shift blame and spent it on problems facing Ontario, perhaps something might actually get done. It is a shame that in these troubled times all that Ontario has is McGuinty.
  73. Terry F from Edmonton, Canada writes: Equalization is the one huggy pie-in-the-sky politically correct that should be turfed. It's created false economies and has stressed this country to the breaking point.
  74. Have An Opinion from Canada writes: McDoofous - start with what you can control and get your provincial house in order. To many social programs, give aways and tax grab crap in Ontario that has spent the province into a terrible hole. You have a civil service that is second to none in terms of size and waste. Ontario has more people providing services to support capital producing industries than the capital producing industries themselves. Your industrial sector has been shipping inflation overseas for years at the expense of R&D and taking huge profits - it's called financial performance on borrowed time. Shifting blame and looking for more handouts is a Cop out (no pun intended) and it is not fooling anyone. Even if you were to capture 20B in transfer payments - what the hell would you do with it anyway - I'm betting on a another stupid social program.
  75. C T.O. from Toronto, Canada writes: Ralph Klein should definitely go!
  76. D G from Canada writes: Joseph Bloggins. Right back at ya. I love how westerners only seem to remember the past in terms of the NEP. You know what? It was decades ago. I was barely born and the same probably goes for you. Sure Alberta contributes alot now and you guys sure seem to be really petulant and unhappy about it. So tell me, why do you despise helping out other parts of Canada so much? Are you that stingy with your siblings as well? If you won the lottery would you gloat in front of them?

    Diss Ontario all you want, but sooner or later you will need Ontario or some other part of the country again for something. It won't be tomorrow but everything cycles.
  77. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Call me a mean-spirited SOB, but there's something quite delightful about watching Ontario beg.

    So amny freaking years of being told by the Centre of the Universe that THEY have the culture, that THEY have the means, that THEY are the definers of what is Canada and it all comes back to bite them in the bum.

    Ontario, 'Can you spare a loony for a province down on it's luck?'

    Tee hee hee.
  78. Beer and Popcorn from Toronto, Canada writes:

    McGuinty's and Miller's priorities..

    - Score political points and win votes with religious groups by debating issues like the lords prayer in the legislature (McGuinty)

    - Score political points and win votes from new Canadians by giving away taxpayer money to Cricket Clubs etc (McGuinty)

    - Increase the value of union contracts and win votes from labour groups

    - Build Soccer fields with taxpayer money for one of the most profitable businesses in Toronto

    ...while Ontario's and Toronto's economy is falling down all around us.

    Welcome to McGuinty and Miller's Ontario - running quickly in the wrong direction - but doing so very politely and with the utmost in political correctness..
  79. Wir sind das Volk from Canada writes: If McGuinty wants to kick start his economy then he should sign a deal with Ottawa to get a whole whack of infrastructure dough that is waiting for Ontario under the Building Canada plan. I think it's something like $7 billion which could get a lot of shovels in the ground for projects that have policy approval and are awaiting funding (Toronto transit anyone?). McGuinty doesn't want people to know about this; all he wants is no strings attached permenent federal funding so he can keep on giving his buddies, the doctors, nurses, teachers and bureaucrats outsized pay raises.
  80. Fake Name from Canada writes: 'Rich fisher from Human Rights Detention Centre, Canada writes: Largest tax increase in Ontario's history after McLiar signed a (his words) 'legal document' promising not to raise taxes.
    Who put the oversized titanium porsche red brakes on what used to be the most successful province ?'

    Who falsified the previous budget on which McGuinty's promise not to raise taxes was based? Conservatives criticizing his integrity over that are like the kettle calling the pot black.

    No, McGuinty's real flaw is failure to control spending in reckless areas, not inherent dishonesty. It's true that Ontario's per-capita social spending is the lowest in the country, but he could do a lot better cutting waste in things like cricket grants. He'd have a lot better chance of convincingly making his case if he got his own house in order and instituted a modest tax cut now that the budget is balanced again (unless he's learned all the boo-fudging tricks in the Eves PC book, and it's not balanced at all).
  81. Stan L from Canada writes: Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Call me a mean-spirited SOB, but there's something quite delightful about watching Ontario beg.

    So amny freaking years of being told by the Centre of the Universe that THEY have the culture, that THEY have the means, that THEY are the definers of what is Canada and it all comes back to bite them in the bum.

    WOW, that is some warped view and yes you are a mean-spirited SOB, that you would wish anyone ill will is kind of lame and that you want people in your own country to suffer makes it even worse. And pick me out somewhere that says that Ontario ever positioned itself in the way you describe....perhaps you should look in a mirror a think about your own insecurity before you start blaming others for it.....
  82. Not the Alliance from In my opinion, The Harper Gov't is totally Incompetent, but excel at whining that it's ALWAYS somebody else's fault. Did I mention they lie constantly too?, Canada writes: Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes: 'Call me a mean-spirited SOB, but there's something quite delightful about watching Ontario beg.'

    This is 'Michael Sharp' in an nutshell. A typical Harper supporter, by the way. A multi-alias liar and hypocrite who gets joy from watching suffering. That is Harper's 'vision'.
  83. Fake Name from Canada writes: 'Dave Roberts from Toronto, Canada writes: McGuinty's only accomplishment to date has been to raise our taxes and make Ontario a have-not province.'

    Yeah, he crashed the US dollar and spiked oil prices, all by himself. I hear he's also responsible for global warming.

    Honestly, politicians have a lot less control over the health of the economy than most people seem to think.
  84. Stan L from Canada writes: Fake Name from Canada writes: ......No, McGuinty's real flaw is failure to control spending in reckless areas, not inherent dishonesty. It's true that Ontario's per-capita social spending is the lowest in the country, but he could do a lot better cutting waste in things like cricket grants. He'd have a lot better chance of convincingly making his case if he got his own house in order and instituted a modest tax cut now that the budget is balanced again

    I agree, while McGuinty is dead to right on the issue of equalization, he is indeed engaged in some reckles social spending, and should go back to basics, reviewing taxes, balancing books, eliminating waste and etc...Also, he could put a lot more thought on this file as well and stop wasting our time with boondoggle social reforms and laws designed to appease the lobby groups but really producing nothing other than a 'feel good'. This is tricky becuase I can't defend some of the things McGuinty has done....but that doesn't necessarily make him wrong on this.
  85. martin ess from Canada writes: McGuinty is being a hyprocrite again.

    He wants to redistribute wealth within Ontario via his insane socialism, yet complains about the same actions at the national level.

    All forms of socialism are invalid, not just the ones that are inconvenient for the premier.

    He is the worst premier I've ever seen.
  86. Broken Record from Victoria, B.C., Canada writes: Hear Hear, D G! The rest of you hillbillies epitomise the regional xenophobia that is ruining this country. I give Canada twenty years, tops.
  87. Shades of Grey from Whitehorse, Canada writes: 'Hi, my name is Michael Sharp and I'm a huge supporter of Prime Minister Harper and his federal Conservative government. If my point of view appeals to you please vote Conservative in the next election.'
  88. Wir sind das Volk from Canada writes: Its interesting though - Ontario as a US State could probably cuts taxes across the board by 25% or more without cutting social spending a penny (Ontario tax rates are about 2X even a high tax US state) and would received more funding under Medicare and Medicaid than the Cdn federal government provides (matching funding from Washington is 50% vs about 20% here). Nothing would stop Ontario from continuing to provide universal insurance, although we probably would get swamped by uninsured residents of the other 50 states. We would also get 80% federal interstate highway funding (the 401 could become an extension of I-96 and the 400 of I-77) vs. the ad hoc federal infrastructure funding (when it exists at all) that is the case here in Canada. Not that I'm advocated but its interesting food for thought.
  89. Mikey from the GWN ___ from Canada writes: Hey McGuinty,

    Try putting the brakes on Toronto first!

    Starting to wonder when Dalton will take responsibility for anything that doesn't make a good photo op or TV sound bite?

    The Captain of the ship is always responsible when she goes down.

    CHeers

    Mikey
  90. Fake Name from Canada writes: Michael Sharp, it's a good thing your level of vitriol is the exception rather than the norm. If the east hated you as much as you hate us, confederation would break up in a matter of weeks.

    I wonder if ontario separated now, would be be able to set the cumulative fiscal imbalance against our share of national debt? I think that's only reasonable ... figuring on that (40% of $500 billion = $200 billion, plus something under $200 billion of provincial debt), ontario would be debt-free roughly 7 years after separation. Eliminating debt-servicing charges and the fiscal imbalance would free up roughly $50 billion a year internally. That could finance one heck of a tax cut, in addition to enough social programs to keep the lefties quiet.

    Still, I'd say we stay in canada for sentimental reasons.
  91. David Griffith from Canada writes: Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Ireland lowered it's corporate taxes and pulled itself out of decades of economic drought.

    McGuinty will not even consider this.
    McGuinty needs a strong tax base (read: high taxes) in order to fund his socially progressive social programs.

    McGuinty wants his cake and he wants to eat it, too.

    McGuinty wants corporate welfare.
    And he wants the West to pay for it.

    BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan all have provinces.
    All right wing.

    Ontario, a have-not province.
    Left wing.

    We see right through your socialist eyes, Dalton.
    Get stuffed.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    When are Liberals going to develop the 'nads to just admit they are socialists hiding under a more politically acceptable name?
  92. Fake Name from Canada writes: 'Shades of Grey from Whitehorse, Canada writes: 'Hi, my name is Michael Sharp and I'm a huge supporter of Prime Minister Harper and his federal Conservative government. If my point of view appeals to you please vote Conservative in the next election.' '

    Sometimes I wonder if the really conspicuous extremists are just plants designd to reflect badly on the 'typical' liberal or conservative.
  93. Shades of Grey from Whitehorse, Canada writes: Fake Name, I wonder the same...but Michael Sharp has been spewing his line for a long time now....
  94. S G from Toronto, Canada writes: Sharp = bitter old retired man. Don't bother with him.

    It does amaze me though how shallow and petulent some of these westerners are considering its only an oil boom helping them. How soon they forget. Will Ontario's diversified economy be there to bail you out when the boom is over? Of course it will.
  95. Shades of Grey from Whitehorse, Canada writes: I'd be curious to know what's wrong with social democracy. Seems like a better model than what our neighbours to the south have. Better model in terms of life expectancy, less of a gap between rich and poor, smaller percentage of people incarcerated, lower murder rate, higher standard of living on average. Public education is socialist, as are hospitals. Our system may not be perfect, or particularly efficient, but its a heck of a lot better than any alternative I've ever seen.
  96. Stan L from Canada writes: S G from Toronto, Canada writes:
    It does amaze me though how shallow and petulent some of these westerners are considering its only an oil boom helping them. How soon they forget. Will Ontario