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China sets up protest zones for Games

GEOFFREY YORK

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 9:26 AM EST 24/07/08

Security director denies Olympics will be a ‘no-fun' event ...Read the full article

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  1. Pamphleteer . from Canada writes: Jesus...
  2. Slippy 1st from Edmonton, Canada writes: Approved protests? Designated protest area?

    God, I can't wait for the Protestympics to start!
  3. Cosmo Spacely from Canada writes: It will make it easier to drive tanks over them if the protesters are herded together.
  4. Chain Veil Is from Toronto, Canada writes:

    There are an estimated 70,000 children snatched from the street by human traffickers each year in China and sold for as little as 4,000 Rmb (US $585) to other ‘parents&8217; or into the sex trade. Parents who try to post &8216;missing&8217; posters are fined or jailed. For more information on what&8217;s really going on in China, watch this free online documentary entitled &8216;China&8217;s Stolen Children&8217; narrated by British Actor Ben Kingsley (Ghandi):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgFxEPePO6g
  5. F H from Canada writes: They're completely missing the point of protests, aren't they?
  6. Harbinger from Out West from Canada writes: Methinks the Chinese who care should protest these protest zones by not showing up and protesting. That would be a non-protest protest.
  7. Valid Observation from Canada writes: Guess they're picking up tips on how to give off the semblance of democracy from the G8 and WTO.
  8. Prairie Boy from Canada writes: There are 1.33 billion Chinese. If 1% demonstrate it is 13.3 million people. If 1% of those choose to throw rocks or such that is 133,000 people. Control is not a bad thing sometimes.
  9. James C from Shenzhen, China writes: if you're pro-china, you can argue that this is a step in the right direction, having a legitimate place set up for protests to take place.

    if you're on the other side of the argument, and since most of the uproar right now is chinese human rights policies et al, you can say that this whole idea is a meaningless sham since any protest with a hint of criticism of chinese policy likely wont be approved. so what would / could anyone protest?
  10. Joseph Whistle from Canada writes: Chain Veil: Thanks for the link. Watching that mother cry looking at his photo invokes all sorts of emotions.
    China's human rights records on all sorts of levels, makes it all too clear, what an undeveloped, shotty place it really is.
    In our society, we put a priority on our well being, we have a social standard. It's not perfect, but much better than in China.
    The Chinese can be proud of themselves all they want, but looking at all their dirty little secrets, they should all bow their heads in deep deep shame. What a lousy place.
  11. Trenton McLeod from Hamilton, Canada writes:

    Many of our lefties may like this type of idea.
  12. Plain Jane from Canada writes: Who wants to bet the 'protest zone' will be like the Monty Python sketch where an architect proposes a building that's actually an abattoir...
  13. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: 'I am Canadian, free to speak without fear, freedom to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think is right, free to oppose what I believe is wrong, or free to choose who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind.'

    -John G. Diefenbaker
    Former Prime Minister of Canada
  14. Alberto Bayo from Canada writes: The West should strive to hobble China
  15. Iain's Opinion from Canada writes: Come out, be photographed, be disappeared late.
  16. siren call from Canada writes: All this talk about China not democratizing and not supporting human rights -- well here's proof to the contrary.

    The Chinese government is simply following the standard the US implemented with the Bush presidency: Freedom Zones, aka Protest Pens -- far away from the actual event.

    Kinda like the G8 does at every summit since Seattle.

    Or like dear leader Steve Harper did here at the SPP (Security and Prosperity Partnership) with Bush and Mexican President, Calderon.

    Vive le faux democracy!
  17. siren call from Canada writes: R Miller from Halifax -- I'm afraid some seriously turbulent water has roared under the bridge since 1960 when Diefenbaker was speaking.
  18. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: siren call from Canada:

    Which turbulent waters were those exactly ?

    The Vietnam War, the Cuban Missile Crisis ??

    Dief the Chief's comments are as true today as when he originally spoke them in the 1960s...

    Cheers
  19. Colleen Moore from Canada writes: I don't know if I would trust that plan they could end up compromised. It hasn't just been buses either than have been blown up it also has been government office buildings, mines, and transportation, that I can recall. Do you think the world is ready to celebrate the Olympics with China? China says Canadians hate China, very strong words but hate no not me maybe China hates but not me. It troubles me deeply the thought of non violent people being tortured and pray for it to stop. Its weights on me, it does when ever tourtered souls cry out.
  20. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: siren call from Canada:

    BTW Are you seriously comparing North America's record on human rights with China's in your 12:30 AM post ?

    Seriously ?
  21. siren call from Canada writes: R Miller from Halifax -- do you think Dief the Chief would swell with pride to see Canadians locked away in protest pens, represented only by video images in the lobby of Montebello while Harper, Bush and Calderon plotted the integration of north america?

    An integration or Security and Prosperity Partnership that citizens in all 3 countries oppose, so plans must proceed in secret.

    9/11
    9/11
    9/11
  22. siren call from Canada writes: R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: siren call from Canada:
    BTW Are you seriously comparing North America's record on human rights with China's in your 12:30 AM post ?
    .............................

    No.

    But I am seriously comparing China's protest zones to the protest zones of the US, Canada and whatever cities the G8 meetings are held.

  23. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Siren call from Canada:

    Keep up with the program, SC...

    I think that the SPP is officially a fairly wounded animal... If not wounded, castrated to say the least.

    In fact, if you stop bringing it up in your posts, it might even be allowed to die a noble death...

    Cheers
  24. siren call from Canada writes: R Miller -- have to run.

    You might want to check out new Canadian federal legislation on testing for mad cow in beef cattle.
  25. Robert Bland from Calgary, Canada writes: Turbulent waters!!!

    How about raiding the houses of poets and artists in the middle of the night to have them detained without charges?

    How about the RCMP tear-gassing demonstrators in Vancouver with now warning whatsoever?

    How about the killing of Dudley George?

    How about the taser killing of Robert DziekaDski?

    How about passing a law that makes it illegal to go within 30m of a baby seal pup unless your intention is to kill it?

    ALL countries in the world have things to be ashamed of - let's not denigrate other countries while pretending we're lily-white.

    PS. There are a fair number of women and children kidnapped and sold into slavery right here in North America.
  26. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: I will, but 'Canadian federal legislation on testing for mad cow in beef cattle ?'

    If that's the net effect of the SPP so far, that sure seems like 'castration' to me...

    Good night !
  27. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Robert Bland from Calgary, Canada:

    Yes, but do you live in fear of being crushed by a tank in the streets of Calgary ?

    Hmmm.... note to self.... Don't move to Calgary....
  28. Robert Bland from Calgary, Canada writes: R Miller:

    I don't feel in danger of being run down by tanks in the streets of Calgary (however I have lived here long enough to remember tanks rolling down the streets of Calgary!)

    I've also been to China and didn't feel threatened of being run down there either.
  29. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Robert Bland from Calgary, Canada:

    I suspect that you weren't carrying a placard or protesting in the streets on your visit to China, however...

    BTW Just for my own information, when did tanks actually roll in the streets of Calgary against a public demonstration ?

    Cheers
  30. Erik Schomann from Kunming, Canada writes: There's nothing new here. Chinese citizens have had the 'right' to apply for protests since before 1989. Sometimes they are encouraged to protest, especially against what Japan and what is perceived as anti-Chinese sentiment in the West.

    State sanctioned protests sounds strange, but then so does the concept of a 'revolutionary government'.
    it's a paradox if you think about it. The Cultural Revolution itself was a state sanctioned revolutionary movement to ensure constant struggle and instill revolutionary consciousness into the post revolution generation.
  31. Erik Schomann from Kunming, Canada writes: It also reminds me of the Hundred Flower movement where Mao encouraged citizens to criticise the regime. Folks were hesitant (read: afraid) at first but as the first letters came in and there were no arrests, the flood gates opened and Mao reversed the edict and had most of those who openly criticised the regime arrested.

    I'm not cynical enough to believe, as many scholars do, that Mao planned to weed the garden with his Hundred Flower campaign. I think, in his court of sycophantic brown-nosers, that Mao actually believed that everyone was happy under his rule and became upset when he found out that wasn't the case.

    I don't predict the swarms of police mentioned in the article. I think they will let them go on, but CCTV cameras will be on every corner and any face that shows up clear enough on the recordings will have a file begin to accrue about them and what is done with the information in that file...
  32. joseph Cheng from Toronto, Canada writes: Robert Bland from Calgary, Canada writes: R Miller:
    I don't feel in danger of being run down by tanks in the streets of Calgary (however I have lived here long enough to remember tanks rolling down the streets of Calgary!)
    I've also been to China and didn't feel threatened of being run down there either.
    _______________________________________________________Mr. Mr. Bland: I am a 3rd generation Canadian of Chinese heritage. I can't recall reading tanks in the streets in Calgary but as a former Montrealer, I am old enough to remember seeing tanks rolling down the downtown streets of Montreal in 1970 under the order of the late Liberal PM Trudeau. Many innocent Montrealers were arrested at the middle of the night and detained without charges laid. I travel to China quite often on business and to visit families since the 1989 Tiananmen tragedy. China has changed a great deal since then. I do feel safe in China and I can see that people in general are quite content with their daily lives. There is no starvation or people living in depravity. With a population of 1.5 billion comprising of many ethnic groups and over a couple of dozen dialects, China is not an easy country to govern. The Chinese government also admitted that they had a long way to go before becoming a one-person-one-vote type of democratic country. Chinese president Hu himself said the target to achieve that goal would be around the year 2040. It is rather ironic that sixty or seventy years ago when millions in China died of starvation and malnutrition, invaded by foreign powers and depended on handouts from the west, China was considered a nice guy in the eyes of many in the west then. Now when China has become in general quite self-sufficient and quite militarily powerful, all of a sudden China is a real bad guy to some. I wish there are more fellow Canadians like you who would take a trip to China and see for themselves the condition and situation over there before forming their opinions.
  33. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: joseph Cheung from Toronto:

    There is a great deal of difference between your post and the previous poster mentioning that the Chinese Government will be monitoring the protestors with CCTV and could do something with any of the information obtained...

    That doesn't really seem like anything close to freedom of association and/or expression to me...

    If Erik Schomman is, indeed, writing from Canada, it appears that he would also not feel safe protesting in these Chinese protest zones...

    So what exactly is the point of these protest zones ?

    Good night.
  34. Stude Ham from Outremont, Canada writes:

    to hades with this 'approved protest' crap...

    BOYCOTT BEIJING 2008!
  35. joseph Cheng from Toronto, Canada writes: Mr. Millar: You are quite right that the Chinese government still harbors a certain degree of paranoid with regards to protests by the public. They have never hidden their acknowledgment of this fear. All public protests have to have prior approval from the authorities. There is a word in Chinese which roughly translates into English as 'chaos'. The Chinese government is very conscious and in many instances overly conscious that chaos will lead to mob behavior and the society will end up into an uncontrollable situation resulting in harm for all. Partly it is due to what happened during the 'Cultural Revolution' which resulted in utter chaos and then 'mob-rule' and anarchy. And partly it is due to the unevenness in the level of education of the general public and the vast segments in population. Mr. Shommann is probably correct that protesters will be monitored and filmed by the Chinese authorities. But here too in Canada and in the U.S. when there are public protests in a large scale such as the one (FTAA meeting) in Quebec City in 2001, it is public knowledge that our Mounties monitored and filmed the protesters. I am not in a position to judge whether it is right or wrong to monitor and film the protesters. But to judge, equate or compare the society in China today to that of Canada and the U.S. is like equating or comparing apples to oranges. In order to understand how the other side of the world is really like, may I suggest that one goes there to gain a first-hand knowledge instead of relying on 2nd hand dispatches from reporters and correspondents who have their own personal biasness and their own personal agenda. Indeed, it is quite easy nowadays to travel to China. All one needs is to apply for a tourist visa at the Chinese Consulate (usually available in a matter of days), book a hotel and airfare and one can travel on his/her own freely once inside China.
  36. Steve Just Steve from Canada writes: Typical shill tactic that's become tiresome and familiar:

    Whenever there is an article criticising China, slowly change the subject so that after about 6 or 7 posts, the debate turns into a critique / defense of Canada, USA, the 'west'........

    I call BS!!! This ain't about the October crisis or the SPP or GWB....it's about

    CHINA'S HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES AND THE FARCE CALLED THE BEIJING OLYMPICS!!!
  37. James C from Shenzhen, China writes: 'joseph Cheng from Toronto, Canada writes: Mr. Mr. Bland: I am a 3rd generation Canadian of Chinese heritage. I can't recall reading tanks in the streets in Calgary but as a former Montrealer, I am old enough to remember seeing tanks rolling down the downtown streets of Montreal in 1970 under the order of the late Liberal PM Trudeau. Many innocent Montrealers were arrested at the middle of the night and detained without charges laid.'
    _____

    the event you talk about happened ONCE in canadian history, and it was a time of great uncertainty in canada. how many of those arrested under the War Measures Act (arrests which were entirely legal under the Act btw) disappeared forever and were never heard from again? the answer is: 0. in fact many of those arrested were released shortly after their arrest.

    trying to compare what happened in quebec in october 1970 and what happens in many other parts of the world daily has all the makings of a poor argument.

    steve just steve, you are right......
  38. yie chang from toronto, Canada writes: hahaha free speech in canada?
    right!!!
    try to deny holocaust???? anybody????
  39. TeePee Kan from Village of Yorke, Canada writes: Yo People you seem to forget that China is a COMMUNIST state and this is how it works; the IOC did when they awarded The Games to Beijing!

    Only difference between the good old USSR and China is that here they talk out of both sides of their face in compliance with western demands for the almighty dollar and Wal*Mart!

    Enjoy the games!
  40. James C from Shenzhen, China writes: ' yie chang from toronto, Canada writes: hahaha free speech in canada?
    right!!!
    try to deny holocaust???? anybody????'
    _____

    free speech in canada is about as free as anywhere on the planet. if you want to make an argument that canada has limited free speech, could you find some better evidence to support that argument?

    trying to deny the holocaust happened is totally beyond the pale and stupid (and another example of trying to switch the argument from what this article is really about - china).
  41. ANONY MOOSE from writes: BOYCOTT, BOYCOTT, BOYCOTT. Welcome to the 2008 Chinese government sponsored games, please leave all self respect at the gate, along with children, t shirts with logos, banners and freedom.
  42. Fella Fellarini from Beijing, China writes: Now c'mon guys, why so much China bashing? They (the Chinese) are trying the best they can. Afterall, a terrible earthquake, an armed insurrection, terrible train crashes, mining accidents, bus bombings, etc., haven't they endured enough this year! They have had to shut down all the factories (productivity loss estimated to be 3% of GDP), allow half the cars on the road, eliminate motorcycles and diesel cars, shutdown all construction, etc. etc. all in the name of clearer skies but unfortunately it still isn't working. What more can they do? As for the security measures, I don't mind having a ground-to-air-missile batttery outside my door - I only hope that they are good aims. And yes, there are quards everywhere, even at elevators. But hey, that's for our own protection, you don't know who is coming! They have set-up areas to protest, now let's see how many of those liberal groups utilize them. As for my black friends getting refused at the bars, I sympathize with them. But, I told them how much Yuan they were saving. Actually, that's an old Chinese adage - for every door that closes another will open! My fellow colleagues from CNN and NBC said that everything is over-the top and this Olympics is simply for the domestic audience, and it is already a no-fun Olympics, so I reminded them that it was the athletics that was important and we all know they are all about business. And finally, if you want someone to blame, perhaps you should look no further than to a group of advantaged foreigners who awarded China to be the host in the first place - the IOC!
  43. Blasphemous Apostate from Cahones, Mexico writes: Who wants to bet the protest areas will be empty, after which China will tout how loved and revered it is because no one protested which will, in their mind, lend support to their claims that they are fair, just and democratic...
  44. James C from Shenzhen, China writes: Fella Fellarini from Beijing .... LOL
  45. yie chang from toronto, Canada writes: James C from Shenzhen, China writes:
    free speech in canada is about as free as anywhere on the planet. if you want to make an argument that canada has limited free speech, could you find some better evidence to support that argument?

    trying to deny the holocaust happened is totally beyond the pale and stupid (and another example of trying to switch the argument from what this article is really about - china).

    nice try but when i talked about this to my friend he didnt want to say anything lol funny isnt it and well maybe north americans should read more news.
    what happened in western countries when you deny the holocaust

    i know we are talking about china and they are imperfect but look at you guys. think canada is perfect but its not really. what a BS... well isnt it all of us in canada needs jewish money??? lol
  46. Kman Willi from Canada writes: Old news.. had friends protesting in Washington during Bushes last inauguration and they had zones set up for them. I am sure the cameras were, and will be a flashing and taking account of all the people involved in disagreeing with the state.
  47. Rob L from Vancouver, Canada writes: What do you China bashers suggest? Let protesters protest wherever they want? Cause so much chaos to shut down the city and the Olympics? Is that human rights? What about my rights to enjoy the Olympics?

    Governing a country the size of China always means making policies that will benefit the most people. In a democracy, who benefits the most? The people with the loudest voice. Screw the silent majority.

    If democracy is so great, just look at your own country Canada, what percentage of people actually vote? How representative is the Canadian government? I bet the Chinese government has a higher approval rating than the Canadian government.

    No government is perfect. Democracy is not the ultimate goal. People want freedom, not everyone wants democracy, these are two separate entities. Don't for a minute think you have moral authority to tell China what to do because you have a democratic government.
  48. I don't think... therefore I vote conservative! (common sense is back) from Canada writes: .

    Either this protest zone is 'jail' or it's 'out of the country'.
  49. Jack Robertson from Toronto, Canada writes: I hope to see the day when all of China becomes a 'protest zone' and the Chinese people rid themselves of the butchers who masquerade as their 'leaders'. It would be wonderful to see the Olympic Games overshadowed by major public protests and to see the Chinese government robbed of its immoral use of the games for propaganda purposes. The International Olympic Committee showed clearly that it has no principles by awarding the games to Beijing in the first place. Just as massive international trade with the country has failed to bring about any real improvement in the field of human rights, the Olympic Games will not change the situation either.
  50. B Lam from Canada writes: Rob L from Vancouver, Canada writes: What do you China bashers suggest? Let protesters protest wherever they want? Cause so much chaos to shut down the city and the Olympics? Is that human rights? What about my rights to enjoy the Olympics?

    ____________________________________________________

    We want more such as:

    1. An earthquake hit Beijing during the opening ceremony.
    2. All sports venues collapse during competitions because of faulty constructions.
    3. Bush to be killed by Chinese secret police invoking WWIII.
    4. The Beijing Olympics become a complete disaster so that we can laugh at the Chinese for the rest of our lives. The Chinese are so humiliated; they shut their door again with the rest of the world. All manufacturing jobs will come back to North America. Union workers may demand $200 an hour, 10 weeks paid vacation a year.....

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