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Wine connoisseurs – I call them cons

BEPPI CROSARIOL

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 12:17 PM EST 23/07/08

Thirty-two years after France got its comeuppance at tasting, wine jingoism is thriving in America ...Read the full article

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  1. I. Con O'Clast from Canada writes: You can fool some of the people all of the time...
  2. handy andy from burlington, Canada writes: AMEN !
  3. John Deriso from Edmonton, Canada writes: Every time I hear someone going on about wines, I think about all of the arguments you hear twenty-somethings have about beers. It's the same thing.
  4. Rollo T from Benfried, Belgium writes: Wine should be inexpensive and abundant. Lately I'm finding favour with chardonnay blended with chardonnay into champagne, 15 euros a bottle, a source.
  5. R M from Ottawa, Canada writes:
    Rollo T - 15 Euros a bottle is not inexpensive from a N/A perspective.... Maybe in Belgium, but not on this side of the pond, where you can get good method produced products from Chile, Spain, and Australia for less than 15 dollars a bottle, sometimes much less. Concha y Toro has a Brut out for under $10 and IMHO it is very very good, FYI.
  6. R M from Ottawa, Canada writes: Rollo T -

    I should have stated that I totally agree with your basic premise / philosophy, however!!
  7. Al B from Toronto, Canada writes: 'No nose? Talk about calling the kettle noir. But then, I've always advocated calling connoisseurs “cons” for short.'

    Incidentally, that's also why conservatives are called 'cons' for short.
  8. Kevin Isicovit from Edmonton, Canada writes: I was doing what I'll call the 'amateurs' tour and tasting at Mission Hill last weekend and have decided never to pay for an expensive bottle again. The most I'll pay, for now, is Cdn $30, which will come down as I taste more wines at cheaper prices. It's a relief to realize that I can find a great deal of pleasure, that others will likely share, without succumbing to pressures to pay higher prices.

    It is telling, to me, that the estate at Mission Hill reeks of new money masquerading as old.

    Lastly, I really enjoyed 'Mondovino,' if you're up for watching a documentary about the wine business. Fascinating! 'Sideways' was a bore, I thought.
  9. Curious G from Canada writes: Rollo: switch to argentine and chilean wines. Even Austria and South Africa have some really nice - very affordable - wines.
  10. Novus in N.S. from Canada writes: As a former bartender, I have firmly believed much of the wine business to be pretentious and a farce. No one would know the difference, yet everyone is a snot about it. Just like martinis. Pour some gin in a glass and it's no different, shaken or stirred. It just looks like a classy way to get drunk.
  11. sam johnson from Canada writes: excellent article! if you have always been around really good wines and have a palate for this fermented grape juice, i suppose you'd look down your nose at cheaper wines.
    i haven't and i don't.
  12. Rusty Waters from Canada writes: Homemade potato wine is the best. Can make it at home for about 20 cents a bottle. Tatties cheap as dirt too. Instead of paying $10.00 for a bottle of wine at the government tax ripoff liquor store you could have 50 bottles of tattie wine for $10.00.
  13. Jean Waller from Scarborough, Canada writes: On my 'must see' list!
  14. Babbleon ! from Sarnia, Canada writes: If you collect wine you know it can be a lot of fun.
    You try to find the wine you like best at the lowest price.
    Wines are very complex the soil the climate the age of the vines all play a role in how the wines taste.
    If I find a good wine at a decent price I am happy.
    There are times whenyou want a good Cali cab then you have to cough up the cash.
  15. Rusty Waters from Canada writes: The taste of wine is not the only reason people drink. People drink wine because it makes them feel warm, content and happy. There is more happiness in a strong dry red wine than a sweet white wine. People drink wine just to enhance the taste of food. My other favourite wine beside potato wine is homemade blueberry wine. We call it the panty remover here in My Hometown. When women have a couple glasses of that Homemade Blueberry wine they start feeling sexy and want to make love. Some people thus drink it to increase their sexual desires. Saves the wildlife too, don't have to grind up bear parts to strengthen the libido.
  16. Molly L from Canada writes:
    'knowing' wine is such a sham. best damn red is a Naked Grape bottle of Merlot for $11 Cnd a bottle. they also make a mean Charddonay.
  17. Aaron S. from The BorderLands, United States writes: So, when the Aussies or the South Africans trumpet their wine, as they do, it's not 'jingoism', but confidence, I suppose.
  18. Ed Long from Canada writes: I do know that Moose Jaw's Beausejour Rich Red in the one gallon screw top was not a great wine, but when you're a student it was cheaper than a twelve pack.

    But what a hangover.
  19. The Economic Hitman jr. from Vancouver, Canada writes: I'll never pay more than $15 for a California wine for that reason. If we could get 2 Buck Chuck up here, I would pay even less. It's one of the oldest processes around, and the grapes are all the same down there. Thanks to the Gallos, Mondovi's, and Bruno's the wine business is basically turning into the beer business.
  20. Rusty Waters from Canada writes: I agree, with Molly l, a bottle of Naked grape Merlot is as good as it gets for store bought wine for me. The only other wines that I usually pick up if I buy wine at the liquer store is yellowtail and kissing bridge...seems like sexy names appeal to me.
  21. Tyler Williams from seattle, United States writes: .

    A fun thing to do is, once in a while, hold a big dinner party and, with the meal, have a blind taste test of three or four wines (different makers and countries, but all the same type of wine).

    My observations in doing this a number of times are the following:

    1. With red wines, France and Canada and America all make terrific wines, but there does tend to be a trend of 'better taste with higher price', regardless of country.

    (The price range I sample is usually in the 10 dollar to 100 dollar a bottle region).

    2. With white wines, the price connection does not hold so well: There are some really terrific cheap whites and some pretty awful expensive whites.

    For some reason, though, I find that Germany tends to do better with whites than reds, whilst France seems to be the other way around.

    And with dessert, do buy ice wine from the Okanagan valley in BC - nothing is better, be it from Ontario, America, Germany, or New Zealand.

    Incidentally, I do not pretend to be any kind of connaiseur - can't even spell the word - but anybody can open four different bottles at a dinner table with guests, swill them around, and decide what they like best. It is great fun.

    .
  22. strider 643 from Canada writes: Conspicous consumption & impression management. Thanks for article. Good to know expensive wines is all BS.
  23. Rollo T from Benfried, Belgium writes: R M from Ottawa, on this side of the pond, where you can get good method produced products from Chile, Spain, and Australia for less than 6 euros per bottle. And they're perfectly up to a kir royale, but they're not blanc et blanc.

    I seldom get past 20 euros for a bottle of chablis, affordable for having spent the spring and early summer on rose au provence, about 3 euros a bottle. If I lived in Ontario, I would try some of B's recommendations.
  24. J Albert from Toronto, Canada writes: Chateau Montelena is a very nice spot to visit for a tasting if you are up in the north end of Napa. However, there are many others too. The point is to taste the wines so that you can find some that you will enjoy. Experts and others opinions are just proxies for your own pallate.
  25. Swifty J from Mtl, Canada writes: I've attended quite a few blind tastings. Not professional events, just amateurs evaluating wines for potential purchase without the bias of reputation, region, variety or price.

    Some observations:

    - most people do make plenty of wildly inaccurate guesses, but there are a few who can peg at least one major trait like the region or the dominant grape variety with some regularity (albeit not perfectly).

    - a few people have the ability to consistently identify one or two types of wine that they really, really love or hate.

    - of the amateurs I've tasted with, I can't think of any who regularly made confident proclamations that wine X (tasted blind) is precisely such and such wine. Some people do this sometimes, but it isn't common among the amateurs I know.

    - there is a correlation between price and quality, but it isn't perfect -- and that's largely the point of a blind tasting of this kind: to find good values and avoid overpriced junk.

    A blind tasting can be a humbling experience for anyone -- pro, amateur, snob, newbie. You might go in thinking you hate wine from California, Australia, France, Ontario, wherever... then find yourself singing the praises of something that came from a place you'd been staunchly avoiding, or made from a grape you thought you couldn't stand.

    I've seen this happen to some pretty experienced tasters, and as the article says it's commonplace among the pros and a certain class of wine snob... so I wonder: why DO so many pros (and snobs) keep spouting off when they ought to know they're going to wind up eating at least some of their words?
  26. More or Less from Canada writes: Hey, you people naming off great tasting wine that's cheap--stop it! The LCBO will be doubling the price if they find out!
  27. Puntal Puntal from Calgary, Canada writes: Al B from Toronto, Canada writes: 'No nose? Talk about calling the kettle noir. But then, I've always advocated calling connoisseurs “cons” for short.'

    Incidentally, that's also why conservatives are called 'cons' for short.

    _____
    Well, given that 'cons' comes from 'con man,' an abbreviation of 'confidence man,' I agree - I, too, have confidence in our governing party. Way to do your homework, Al B. I bet you also spell it 'would of' instead of 'would have.'
  28. Babbleon ! from Sarnia, Canada writes: strider 643 from Canada writes: Conspicous consumption & impression management. Thanks for article. Good to know expensive wines is all BS.

    This is like saying all expensive cars are BS, there is a lot of intensive labor in the making of a good wine also there is a limited quantity due to the age of the vines.
    I am not saying all expensive wines are good you have to find what you like and go with it.
  29. Babbleon ! from Canada writes: More or Less from Canada writes: Hey, you people naming off great tasting wine that's cheap--stop it! The LCBO will be doubling the price if they find out. The LCBO is another story in itself.
  30. Antonio San from Canada writes: Beppi has managed to pleased his fan crowd with yet another assault on French wines. He had to dust an old story, go back over 30 years ago to get his vindication though, promote some California label and 2 films for Hollywood. Canadians love to hate americans but still love to follow the worst of them: it worked for Gore, Moore etc... Many wine tasting in Canada have shown the indigent level where people rave about cheap -yes usually that goes with Canadians and wine-, monodimensional stuff from various part of the world and detailing in great length the wonderful, fruity and other adjectives of some windshield washer crap coming from China, the latest fashion location. Funny because before he wrote this I was myself calling Beppi un con.
    I am sure Alan Rickman is fantastic in the role.
  31. Lorne Carmichael from Kingston, Canada writes: I remember a story from an economics class about a company that had introduced a new sherry that was not selling very well. Then someone came up with a solution: they increased the price.
  32. Maria Gatti from Montreal, Canada writes: I don't think Beppi was dissing French wines, just French chauvinism and US jingoism.

    There is no reason for Rollo in Belgium to be making South (or North) American wines his daily purchase, when so many European wine-producing countries are so much closer.

    Tyler, yes of course German whites tend to outclass German reds - I wouldn't bother with the latter and neither to my friends in Germany. But don't disregard the wonderful (Germanic style) whites of neigbhouring Alsace in France, or of Austria and Austrian border regions in northeastern Italy.

    Rollo, I didn't understand your post about chardonnay grapes in Champagne. Did you mean chardonnay varietals from Champagne region, or a methode champenoise sparkling wine made from Chardonnay grapes?
  33. Kevin Wells from United States writes:
    I agree with earlier posters that there is some correlation between price and taste.

    If a bottle costs under 5 bucks - it will be harsh and sometimes undrinkable.

    Most bottles over 10 bucks (or the equivalent in the larger 'jugs') are good enough. Over 30 bucks and you can't go wrong especially if you stick with well-known vineyards.

    Paying the equivalent of 100 bucks or more per bottle - IDK, but seems like a waste to me.
  34. Bert Fegg from Canada writes: Price over quantity times the inverse of alcohol content for whites. Price over quantity times vintage for reds.

    Visit regional winerys for fun each year to buy some stuff that's not listed.

    There!

    ~FEGG
  35. Pierre Dionne from Toronto, Canada writes: Blind tasting are fun, but man it is tough. I agree with Tyler, get some friends together, and open 4 to 8 bottles of wine (you don't have to drink them all). Keep it the same colour (white, red, or bubbly), and either a) explore the same grape across different countries, or b) explore the various regions of one country (different grapes). I find the latter easier, because Pinot Noir, Cabernet, and Syrah do tend to smell and taste different. You just need to do some research to figure out what they're supposed to be like (or take a course).

    Best part of this: only practice makes perfect! Cheers!
  36. Rollo T from Benfried, Belgium writes: Maria Gatti from Montreal, Canada writes: I didn't understand your post about chardonnay grapes in Champagne. Did you mean chardonnay varietals from Champagne region?
    -----------------------------

    Champagne region, about 3 hour's drive south. Other regions around the world can produce excellent wine, it was just a surprise to the French, who were innocent, not arrogant. The rose champagne was also delicious, dry, flavourful, a euro less per bottle. There are pricier bottles available too. Only problem with champagne is it may not keep any longer than fresh beer.

    I recommend Alsacian dessert wines if you dry and sweet, a bouquet enough for fenugreek gouda and dijon. I should have saved the last label. It was a find.
  37. John Lansing from Toronto, Canada writes: Strider, you missed the entire point of this piece. It isn't that wine, or even pricey wine, is 'BS' -- it's that blind tasting and the arrogance that can accompany specific strains of 'wine culture' are suspect. Wine is in the Bible, wine has been with us as civilization for a long time, wine is a true gift and pleasure. Yes, sometimes you pay to play, but part of the fun is when you find a gem where you didn't have to.

    Don't twist this article into some rationale to shut all that out just because you were looking for the excuse.
  38. Zack Fair from Canada writes: Tyler. Yes, it is interesting to do that. Friends, my wife and I do that on a regular basis once the kids are asleep. We taste 4 different wines and try to guess which is which. Sometimes we try to guess the type of vine. All bring food and have a wonderful evening. It is true, from our observations, that price tend to be co-related, but you sometime have surprises. The lessons I take from this is that generally, more expensive wines (30 $) are generally very good, but you can easily find good cheap ones too (10-15$).
  39. guy tozer from saskatoon, Canada writes: Ripple and Mogen David.......now there are 2 head bangers of my youth. Make my own nowadays.......merlot and a nice peach cabernet sauvignon. Those are the only two, I want in life. cheers
  40. M Poland from Calgary, Canada writes: I agree with Swifty--that price can correlate with quality, but it is emphatically not exact. A little over 20 years ago I bought a bottle of Joseph Drouin Aloxe Corton [@ $25 then) to share with my parents. Oh my, what an eye-opener that was. It sure put those $10 Bordeaux I was buying to shame, as it were. So many wines, so little time .... I saw Baron Phillippe de Rothschild on Merv Griffin's show [many years ago] and he mentioned in response to a question that the best wine he'd ever tasted [up to that point, I suppose] was one from Scotland! Interesting, that.
  41. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: "Without the benefit of a glance at the label, wine connoisseurship is so much hot air and bluster."

    Amen to that!!! About ten years ago it became trendy amongst certain upper-class lushes to spend $30,000 to have a wine cellar installed in their basement. That way they could show off their wine collections, their (alleged) knowledge, and their exquisite tastes. It allowed them to blather on endlessly about various "vintages" and how long they planned to age certain bottles and blah blah blah blah. (In fact, the G & M covered this in quite a lengthy story in the Life section.)

    Wine connoisseurs are nothing more than snobs who have fallen for a trend just as plastic and phony as the cigar revival a few years back. They believe they have such discerning palates, but the reality is they succumb to the placebo effect of a label just as easily as their lower-class brethren who argue over Pepsi vs. Coke.

    Perhaps even more amusing, wine snobbery (along with the snow-job the wine industry has sold us that wine is good for you) has allowed many upper class alcoholics to gloss over their addiction with the veneer of high culture.
  42. Paul, Bytown, from Canada writes: For those of you who live in Ontario, here are a few sites that evaluate new vintage releases and even some Lcbo shelf stuff. You can sign up for their free pre-release newsletters. They often give the best bang for the buck recommendations.

    http://www.billysbestbottles.com/weekly_tips/vintages.html

    http://www.gremolata.com/

    http://winecurrent.com/

    and my favourite:

    http://rodphillipsonwine.com/
  43. Antonio San from Canada writes: Alistair mcLaughlin: The snobbery exists everywhere, among wine connoisseurs and others: there is nothing snobbier than your uneducated, envious comment. It allows ignorance to roam free among losers while they pretend to have figured it all out.
  44. Ed Long from Canada writes: Spent a day tasting the in the Penticton, Karamata area to find a great red of any grape. Not possible.

    I am fussy. Autralian Shiraz should be a topping on DQ sundaes. Many S. Americans follow the Shiraz route, at least the ones imported to B.C., but did drink some wonderful stuff in Buenos Aires. Sounds snotty, but I find various Old World reds have the depth that I like. Best was an unknown ordered in a Lisbon restaurant, recommended by the waiter.

    At home $25 is the max and unfortunately price is a pretty good indicator especially for Old World stuff. Canadian good wines can be higher because there is so little quality produced and there is great demand. It's just a scale thing.

    Couple bottles of $10-$15, couple $15-$25, plus whatever is my monthly thing. Tastings ... I'm not into party games.

    Guy T ... in my youth, we were busted with a bag of Mogen David, the police confiscated the hooch but didn't charge because they said it was pathetic to be caught with such p'ss.
  45. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Antonio, if you consider a lack of knowledge of expensive wines or cigars to be "ignorance", I feel sorry for you. How's your wine-tasting course going? (Clever bunch those wine cons, they need to take courses to learn what they like.)
  46. Mothers Talk from in the cellar, Canada writes: It seems by the posts here that many think that what is more important is the cost and not the taste. Sure all wine has alcohol in it but not all wine tastes great, many of the less expensive wines taste so bad they are not worth buying let alone drinking. Sure maybe if they lowered the prices on the really good wine that would be great, but lets face it for some people, its all about the alcohol. You can get drunk on a $10 bottle of wine just the same as a $30 ,$50 or $100 bottle of wine but what about the taste? You have to admit that the taste makes all the difference and that is usually why these wines are priced higher. I would turn up my nose at most $10 pinot noir or merlot or shiraz for obvious reasons, it tastes horrible, really it does.
  47. John Lansing from Toronto, Canada writes: Alistair, you really should have accepted Antonio's (hilarious) observation with more grace; arrogance really is universal, and the familiar contrarian tone you took in your post is most certainly one that serves as a refuge for no shortage of folks who feel more secure in braying from outside vs. inside the crowd. That you didn't try harder to meet him halfway really bears his point out, in fact. What's odd to me is you saw fit to place "vintages" in quotes as if it isn't a simple factual observation that certain wines are produced in certain years, or that some years are poor for certain regions. If you're going to lash out, hey, go for it -- but try to firm up the target a bit, eh? Missed here entirely of course is the business culture relationship with wine -- when a client hands you the wine list, there is certainly pressure to take an educated stab at it. Complain about wine courses, but business people comprise some of the attendees. If you want to rip on that phenomenon too, you'd best also be prepared to take a hearty swipe at the infinite number of golf dilettantes that our "networking" lust and corporate culture produces.
  48. Antonio San from Canada writes: Alistair do not feel sorry pal because I can appreciate a great wine that I can afford. I could appreciate it way before I could afford it... And I can also appreciate a good bargain. Liek anyone educated and willing to learn, I just have a choice and I can make an informed choice, something your prejudice prevents you to. Now cigars I do not know much but I won't tell people who enjoy fine cigars I am sorry because they do. With this attitude they probably won't be kind to share some of their knowledge. I guess this is unimportant on wines or cigars, although you see, there are vintners who spend generations understanding their terroir and mastering their craft... But hey what do they know? Perhaps they too deserve a bit of unsnobbish respect because they know way more than you or I do about wine making. If you can't get that because a few snobs rubbed you the wrong way, or because you envy someone who can chose to buy an expensive bottle of wine, then you're a poor man.
  49. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Antonio, I could care less what someone chooses to do with their own money. I just don't need to hear about it, as they go on, and on, and on... I also admire those who have developed their craft over years and perfected a certain product, whether they be vintners, brewers, or whomever. Most of all, I admire those upstarts (like the California vintners) who can show just how much "taste" is actually a placebo effect derived from an expensive label.
  50. lary waldman from Qualicum Beach, Canada writes: After being skinned for some $40,000 by so called wine experts, both in the cultivation and production sides of this enterprise, I can say with some authority, that wine is wine, most people drink it to get drunk, it matters not if they be rich or poor.

    Lary Waldman
  51. Yves Farges from Canada writes: When all is said and done ... there is supply and demand. Great wines have a lot of demand, either local, foreign, or a combination of both. That drives up prices. The legendary wines of France have waiting lists for their wines, so they concentrate on making great wines. California, British Columbia, etc, etc, make great wines? Congratulations! Comparisons in wine (and many things) is part of human nature and occupy the nit-pickers of the world ... including journalists preaching down to the reading public about wine snobbery. Personally, I enjoy the drinking of a fine wine. The endless splitting of hairs (and terroirs) I leave for the experts with respect. It is, after all, a legitimate profession requiring a lot of study and dedication. For the rest of us, amateur but happy consumers, we know when a wine is good and have a generally good idea when a wine is great. Blind tastings are arenas for the professionals, not the spectators. If there is a wine selling for thousands of dollars it is because of demand. That demand for the French wines comes from a rich tradition of great wines that goes back centuries. It is hard to dismiss centuries of hard work with the swipe of a pen, but this journalist has tried to ... funny in a sad clown sort of way. Old world wines are still great ... and the new world is catching up ... good news for everyone because it means: Better wine and more of it.
  52. Tyler Williams from seattle, United States writes: .

    Yves Farges writes: " Blind tastings are arenas for the professionals".

    NONSENSE!

    That is like saying that tennis is an arena for the professionals, or chess is an arena for the professionals, or dancing is an arena for the professsionals.

    NONSENSE, ALL OF IT!

    In all of the above arenas, whoever you are, if it feels good, do it!

    .
  53. Ed Simmons from Halifax, Canada writes: The point of Bepi's article, that so called wine connisseurs are phonies, is just exposing another urban myth. Anyone who has spent a considerable amount of time blind tasting wine knows this, it is a process of constant education and considerable enjoyment; but don't take yourself too seriously and be prepared to crash and burn on any given night.
    Many people who buy expensive wines; and $100 a bottle is just the tip of the wineberg; do so because they have more money than brains and are out to impress other people who belong to the same club. A small number of people who buy very expensive wines do so because; after having tasted a few or a few hundred or a few thousand wines have had wonderful tasting experiences which goes beyond labels and grapes and dollars and scores and provides a pleasure that is for them comensurate with the price.

    Find your own level, continuing experimenting because it's is an endlessly fascinating subject if you like it; if you don't it's just red or white booze. But most importantly don't let anyone intimidate you. Anyone who really knows anything about wine knows how little they really know and are usually only too happy to share their knowledge.
  54. Antonio San from Canada writes: Alistair thanks but really we got the gist of beppi's article... LOL
    By the way, a Jaboulet Aine, cotes du ventoux, les traverses 2005 is at $16 and really is a wonderful bargain. Now that's being snob no?
  55. M Poland from Calgary, Canada writes: I agree with Ed's last line, for sure ...
  56. Belle Kurve from Canada writes: Is it not the case that when french vineyards suffered a debilitating blight they brought over california grafts to regenerate their crops? This may have been in the early 70s or 60s not sure. So a couple of possibilities here.

    One is the French product may have more in common with Californians then most people know and second France may have been at a low ebb in terms of quality.

    I suggest a rematch to see what if anything has changed over three decades.
  57. m h from Canada writes: As a wine snob, please allow me to add the following.

    First of all, blind tastings are a silly business. I can appreciate the poor guy who mistook an old bordeaux for a burgundy. Once the stuff is in the bottle and aged, and depending on cellar conditions, anything can happen to it.

    Wine snobbing is not about "guessing", it is about loving. It is about being surprised by that touch of red fruit in a St. Emilion or being dissapointed by a flat Chateauneuf de Pape.

    In my home, I always have my guests taste blind, but not to make them guess. I do it to make them consider without prejudice the qualities of the wines I place before them.

    Let us not forget, in all of this and in every tasting, to pay our respects to the fine men and women who make wines - who translate sun and cloud and rain and soil and grape and wood into that deep and transending experience, into that wealth of sensation, thought and feeling which are wine.
  58. Swifty J from Mtl, Canada writes: m h, you make a great point that the purpose of tasting is appreciation, not guesswork.

    But people have a natural tendency to try to take a guess as to what's in their glass -- no harm in it, really, if they're also taking the time to appreciate and there are no journalists around.

    But a few have a tendency to make their guesses into bold (usually wrong) proclamations. When made in a high-profile public setting, those proclamations become infamous, fodder for caricatures in movies. They make those of us who simply appreciate good wine look silly in the eyes of those who don't.

    Belle Kurve: the phylloxera blight devastated European vineyards in the 19th century, not the 1970s, and the North American rootstock used in Europe as a result doesn't have much, if anything, to do with how the wine tastes.
  59. Ed Simmons from Halifax, Canada writes: An answer to Belle Kurve's suggestion of a rematch, it's actually been done three times ( google it, the most recent one was in LA about a year or so ago ) now and if it were plotted on a graph it wouldn't be a bell curve for the Californians but rather the kind of chart you wish your stocks were duplicating. The Californians just showed better and better each time, which also debunks one the original arguement put forth on behalf of the French wines that they needed time to age and the Californian wines showed well when they were young but wouldn't age.
    So many myths so little time.
    By the way nobody is talking about wine and food, the ultimate challnge. Wine and food pairings are lots of fun and very educational, try that some time instead of a blind wine tasting.
  60. Babbleon ! from Sarnia, Canada writes: There are people who purchase clothing because of the label also cars and yes wine.
    Just as there are label snobs there are people who realize the quality attached to these labels.
    Some people on this forum would never buy a $150 bottle of wine or drive a $75000 car for whatever reason but to scoff at the people who do is being very narrow minded.
  61. MR. oz from Canada writes: French wines and french food are two of the two very, very much
    over rated things worldwide!
  62. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: M H, the good folks at MinuteMaid who bring us orange juice are no less impressive. Yet they don't get the attention winemakers do. Because there is no social status to be gained by talking about how much pulp your orange juice contains.
  63. guy tozer from Saskatoon, Canada writes: Ed Long: So very true.. lol. It was rank, but affordable. haha
  64. Oakville Curmudgeon from Canada writes: From somewhere above: "a good Cali cab". Now, I'm not sure if this is a comment about a particularly well appointed taxi cab or if it is a particularly pretentious way of referring to a California cabarnet.

    Or maybe it is just a good example of the particular sort of wine jingoism being discussed.
  65. Chris Keating from ottawa, Canada writes: Ed Simmons, well said. =) That's pretty much how I feel about wine (and food!). Different people have different palates and will like or taste different things. Oakville Curmudgeon, how is referring to it as a 'Cali Cab' pretentious? I don't get all the hostility towards wine lovers here. =(

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