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Ford's $8.7-billion loss deepens auto woes

GREG KEENAN

From Friday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 8:44 AM EDT 24/07/08

Red ink likely to spread to GM and Chrysler as flagging pickup and SUV sales force struggling car makers to look to Europe ...Read the full article

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  1. George Levecque from Fergus, Ontario, Canada writes: Too little, much too late, Expect Ford will soon be in Chapter 11 in the USA.
  2. Paul Bowler from Canberra, Australia writes: Agreed George. I don't think they will need calenders for 2010, let alone 2011 or 2012!!
  3. On Edge from Canada writes: If only they had taken the smaller vehicle market seriously all along ...
  4. Chris Tuckwell from Toronto, Canada writes: Is Ford still in business (and GM)?? And we are running overtime up at the Honda plant in Alliston, ON. Can't seem to keep up with customer demand for our 'reliable fuel efficient' vehicles.

    Thanks Canadians! I love the OT.
  5. Canadian Silver Bug from Canada writes: FORD

    Found On Road Dead will soon be the description of the whole corporation not just some of the lemons they've built, sigh!

    I so loved by 86 capri!
  6. R M from Canada writes: I think you guys need to give ford a little bit more credit.

    Of the three american automakers they are th eonly one who has a concrete plan at th emoment for re inventing their entire product line up in north america. Not to mention they are doing so by producing vehicles they already build for other markets.

    Lets compare that to GM or Chrysler. GM is caught with its hands tied, they were unprepared and they are now doing what Ford at least THOUGHT about a few years ago. Hence the massive plant closures et al.

    Chrysler is off in no mans land, if you want to see an american car company go bankrupt or be sold off to the highest bidder (AGAIN), I'd be watching that one.

    Ford however, is heading in the right direction, the vehicles they are bringing over are very competitive in international markets and are quality cars.
  7. Bryan . from Canada writes: It didn't see how much of the $8.03 billion write down was actually from Ford Credit but that could be very troubling for Cerebrus who owns 51% of GMAC and Chyslers Credit department.

    I agree R M with your basic sentiment. The other bright spot for all these automakers is overseas. Ford earnings showed an increased earnings international. It is North America that is killing them.

    At some point it probably wouldn't be a bad option to Chapter 11 all three of the American car companies. That way they can execute there plans all at once and get their North American costs in line.
  8. Chris Tuckwell from Toronto, Canada writes: Talk is cheap. Lets see them actually pull it off. Ford, GM and Chrysler owners are die hards and have there heads in the sand. It's old school mentality. Remember back in the 50's when the guy on the street owned a Buick. You have arrived if you owned a Buick. Still hold true today, there's a certain age group who still believe if you own a Buick, you have arrived.

    Times change and so does product quality and reliability. Just the mention of GM, Ford and Chrysler bring back memories of unreliable gas guzzlers. Ford will have to try pretty hard to keep up with Honda and Toyota's quality.
  9. Ob Server from Canada writes: RM from Canada...It's bad news for the Canadian and North American economy that these domestic car companies are in so much trouble and I truly feel for them on many levels. From small communities where the dealership is a big employer and contributor to people's welfare to the employees and suppliers, it is not good. BUT, and there is always a BUT, it is fair to say that Ford, GM and Chrysler have been blind, deaf and dumb for the past 20 years at least. Even a novice who knows nothing about cars could have reasonably assumed that maybe big trucks, SUV's and gas guzzling sports cars as the main line of business are NOT the way of the future judging by what the consumer is buying. Over that time, while the Japanese and Koreans were pumping out small, fuel efficient cars what were the Big 3 doing? GM was buying Hummer, Ford was pumping up the F line of pick-ups and Chrysler was putting big money in engines for small cars so they could break land speed records on the DVP and 401. Do you remember the Hyundai Pony and Stellar intro'd between 1983 and 1985? With those cars Hyundai almost committed suicide. But they learned fast and today they're not the laughing stock they were....sales and profit hit new records every quarter and their cars are very, very good. Thats' 20 years to go from hopeless to unbeatable. In the same time, the Big 3 went from unbeatable to hopeless to incredibly bad. And whose fault is all that? Irresponsible, unresponsive, over-paid, hapless, hopeless and confused management, thats who. And to justify their senseless existence they keep re-structuring at the cost of billions of $... burning what little remains of the shareholders equity. And all the while, they collected hundreds of millions in pay and bonuses and now they want sympathy. Throw them all out and start again I say...their time is LONG past.
  10. R M from Canada writes: I think you need to take a look at current leadership and what the companies have done in the last 5 years to get an idea of what the true mindset of the company is. Unfortunately for all 3 of them they are stuck with a consumer mentality that they build BAD cars and that they 'Have their heads stuck in the sand' Mullally (head of ford at the moment) is a forward thinker, and he has made MASSIVE steps to work around and get rid of the dinosaurs and bureaucracies that were holding Ford back. Hence the fact that ford is RETOOLING plants and not closing them and laying off workers left and right like GM and Chrysler. They have scaled down production over the last few years to allign themselves with a more realistic idea that they will now occupy a much smaller place in the NA market. GM is the elephant in the room, Wagoner has been trying to manage what he has which is a MASSIVE company with too many brands and not enough product, marketshare or the right vehicle mix to support them all. GM has been living like they still own 50% of the marketshare in NA, they need to get in line with the fact that they are only 20%. GM was slower to react than Ford, and they WILL be harder hit by this than Ford will be. Chrysler and Cerebrus is just a clown show. Cerebrus bit off more than they can chew, and threw in someone with NO automotive experience to spearhead the company into profitability. IT won't last much longer, and as stated Cerebrus has also has a stake in the automotive financial arms which will surely have interesting results shortly. The crash of the truck and SUV market was to be expected, but no one could have predicted how quickly it happened. It just glaringly highlighted the major short comings of the domestics. If you think that GM and Ford are still making crappy, unreliable, non competitive cars you need to give your head a shake. Consumer preceptions are more likely to be the death of them than anything else
  11. andy c from Canada writes: George and Paul; i think that quesiton applies to all the big 3. will they have enough money to get them to 2010? I think the answer to that is yes, enough state, provincial and national (U.S) governments will cut them enough breaks to see them that far. if they do get that far and start selling appealing small cars then maybe the rise in gas prices was a good thing for them in the long run as it seems to be the only thing to sucessfuly break the truck/suv corperate culture running through the Big 3 veins.
  12. Ob Server from Canada writes: RM....they don't make crappy cars maybe but neither do they make great cars and therein lies the rub. They're good but a long ways from good enough when you consider the competition. Consumers whom they have alienated are gone for good, like me and my extended family. And we live happier lives because of that shift away from aggravation and dealer abuse. It may be true that there is a perception of all around crappy cars BUT and as I said earlier there is always a BUT, crappy service is NOT a perception and that is what remains after you abandon the brand.
  13. The Natrix from Toronto, Canada writes: Its going to be hard to make up for the loss of the F-Series as their bread and butter.

    As well as to change the perception of Ford Cars to something that people want. Now if they somehow are able to swiftly bring European Cars, and somehow make it seem less Ford like but a European brand of sorts, they may have a chance.

    I do agree though that the new CEO is the one that is the most competent and forward looking.
  14. Rob Swanson from Edmonton, Canada writes: Folks might want to check the ACTUAL quality situation before posting.
    Ford is at or near the top with Toyota and Honda overall, has improved faster than the industry standard, and Mercury beat Honda in the long term durability according to the second quarter 2008 U.S. Global Quality Research System (GQRS) study conducted by RDA Group. The ranking was Toyota, Mercury, Honda, then Ford. Thats the fifth year running Mercury was ahead of Honda.

    The more you know...

    They are certainly burning through cash like the stuff was powering the plants, but on the whole, if one was to pick a survivor amongst the big domestics based on quality and model lineup in the next 24 months, Ford is the smart choice.

    I still can't figure why the Globe comments editors allow the same pure drivel from the same sapheads though. They just post the same vitriol in every thread with no sanction for content or facts.
  15. Master T from Burlington, Canada writes: It's about frigging time that we get the european Focus again. WHY THE HELL do they employ the same failing tactic every time? Stupid, stupid stupid. What tactic you ask? The one they started in the early 1980s when they intruduced a fine european small car called the Escort. By the standard of the time it was a great little car. Then they had to Americanize it by adding a lower performance rough low revving engine, really thick American style door panels, bigger American style seats (which also robbed the back seat of any hope of leg room). The end result was a slow seller that not longer had much relation to the European version and was scrapped in favour of the Mazda Protege based version of the 1990s. The same thing happened to the Protege version - engine replaced with a crappy uninspiring one, and the interior Americanized to be less practical and more 'appealing' to the American market. It too was scrapped in favour of the fantastic new European Focus. The Focus, thankfully, remained unaltered as compared to the european version until the 2008 model year. The Europeans have a beautiful, well handling, practical, small car, with great engines to choose from. What do we get in North America? An Americanized, less practical, ugly, reskinned version of the 10 year old Focus that debuted in North America in 1999. Oh, but wait, the suspension is softer (to hide the aging platform's short comings in relation to it's more modern competition), and it has the same old engine - once great, now old and yawn inspiring compared to what we could have. Ford seems to be doomed to repeat it's own mistakes time and time again. How long until they decide that they 'know better' than the europeans, and Americanize this version of the Focus? Or the other european versions they plan to introduce here? The Mondeo is a fantastic world car that we would love to have here. Let's hope the goofs running the show in Dearborn don't ruin it!!!!!
  16. Binder Dundat from Toronto, Canada writes: Can I just have a simple, reasonably-sized wagon please? Not a van. Not an SUV. Not a cross-over. Just something practical to get me (and thousands more like me) through some lean times. Hello? Hello?
  17. R M from Canada writes: Ob Server

    I do agree crappy service sucks.

    But as someone who works in the industry and deals with dealerships from almost every brand, I can tell you without hesitation poor service isn't a domestic only issue.

    Unfortunately dealerships are one of the shortcomings of the automotive industry in general and they cause manufacturers a ton of headaches because they are 'independant fanchises'

    A manufacturer can only do so much to control the business practices of their dealer groups.
  18. Anthony B from Maritimes, Canada writes: For decades the Big 3 ignored reality and assumed the 'build it and they will buy' attitude to doing business. It must have escaped their notice that makers of smaller, fuel-efficient vehicles were increasing their market share. Maybe Ford has finally realized (far too late) that giving consumers what they want always beats telling them what they can have.
  19. Binder Dundat from Toronto, Canada writes: You could see it coming with those TV ads a few years back, placing the old Focus next to the new Five Hundred next to the new F150. Three vehicles with no real ties to each other, in an ad that targeted all customers but REACHED none.
  20. Ob Server from Canada writes: RM....That may be so but since abandoning GM almost 20 years ago I have never had cause to hate my Toyota dealer and they're independent too. The reason I think is that Toyota understands something GM does not, namely: Clients are your ONLY source of survival and treating them over-the-top well assures your survival as well. In my world, service is not just a small thing, it is EVERYTHING and nothing else matters...nothing.
  21. Fred Pantalone from Ottawa, Canada writes: How in the world is it possible that Ford's quality has caught up to that of Toyota with its TPS system in such a short time? And where is the Harvard Business Review's analysis of such an incredible feat? Sorry Ford, your TV commercials are FoS, there's just no way your quality has matched Toyota's...

    Folks, Google Toyota TPS and even add 'Harvard Business Review' before you swallow this tripe...
  22. Ghetto Dude from Istanbul, Turkey writes: I did not notice a CAW poster above or did I miss it while scanning? Where are the sentences that start with 'Men and women in Ford plants doing a wonderful job...'
    (As for Escort, its European version is the worst piece of car which is comparable to some Hyundai or Kia models, its difference is in its higher price. Anyway, I do not even know whether it is still being produced or not.)
  23. Silver Standard (Used to be gold) from Canada writes: These guys must be propped up by the government, I just can't see how they are still open. The cars they make here better be as good as the Europe's cars because we need it.
  24. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes:
    This is likely to be the first of several announcements. The U.S. car market has collapsed at an unprecedented rate, all manufacturers that have major U.S. sales are likely to suffer.

    Ford is first to report, Chrysler is private so won't report their numbers but is hurting just as bad. GM and Toyota are the next two that need to show their numbers. Toyota's going to be the one that shocks the most people because their sales are down just like everyone else, but people still think there's some kind of halo over the company (case in point, Toyota is still valued at almost 20 times what GM is valued at, despite the same revenue).
  25. R M from Canada writes: This is a real hoot.
    ''Ford has been successful selling cars in Europe'

    Ford execs should take a walk down Sesame street to learn two new words.

    'Big' and 'Small'.

    Europe sales may be successful because they make and sell small cars there while here in NA Ford still thinks 'Big' is the answer. Buyers have been on a Small car kick for the past 15 years so why are the big suits at Ford missing the boat.

    Maybe Ford can rise up from bankruptcy or at least learn something the hard way.

    I for one will not miss Ford nor GM and Chrysler for that matter.
  26. Rob F from T.O, Canada writes: I don't think... therefore I vote conservative! (common sense is back) from Canada.

    Wow great post buddy! All us conservatives are really beside ourselves with Ford....

    As for your political views ....I see your fiberals are running things like a fine tuned watch at the Provincial level... Dalton Mcguinty is doing a great job... More people out of work... Personal Taxes increased... infrastructure crumbling....

    Federal Level... Dion... need I say more... Lets raise taxes to fund 'Green Technology'... Oh yeah who says whats a green technology?... Is a hybrid car a green technology when you look at all the things that were done to make it? Plastics? Computer chips? Batteries that contain highly volitile substances? And above all it still burns gas??... What accountability is there in the entire program to ensure that all this money is used correctly?
    NOTHING!!

    Liberals are a
  27. Tim Bryson from Claresholm, AB., Canada writes: For the last ten years, the Honda Civic has been the best selling car in Canada. Why? Looks like Ford is finally starting to see the light.
  28. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: Anthony B from Maritimes, Canada writes: 'It must have escaped their notice that makers of smaller, fuel-efficient vehicles were increasing their market share.'

    Until sometime in 2004, smaller, fuel-efficient vehicles were NOT increasing their market share! In small and fuel efficient vehicles LOST market share from about 1981 until 2004.

    It's really only in the last 3 years that we've seen a big change toward smaller vehicles, though even that has little to do with Ford's problems.

    The biggest problem Ford has is the the U.S. market as a whole is down currently down 15-20% year over year. That's cars, trucks, vans, you name it. Even most small cars are seeing declines in sales, they're just seeing only a 5-10% drop instead of the 25% drop in sales of trucks and SUVs.
  29. Get 2 Work from Canada writes: Again lots of Ford bashing from the guys sitting up in the peanut-gallery.

    As for RM, your posts make me wonder if the Detroit automakers killed your dog or something.
  30. Ghetto Dude from Istanbul, Turkey writes: Tony . from Waterloo, you are right from the sales point of view but the difference between Toyota and GM, is GM's indebtedness. And by means of perpetual annual losses, one can hardly keep on debt servicing.
    Among these 3 pink sheet companies of the upcoming years, I think Ford has a comparative advantage for at least having a guy named Ford as its CEO, not some stranger swindler like that of GM who only cares about his own benefits.
  31. Johnny Mack from Canada writes: Tony from Waterloo: True, Toyota is struggling too but they are more nimble and able to respond to changing consumer's tastes more quickly. I imagine that's why there's more confidence in them. Ford and GM are slow to react, which is why they can't promise any new small cars before 2010. They've probably been secretly hoping the price of gas will come down. At least Ford has a seemingly viable plan, since the new cars they're promising for North America are already successful in Europe. GM is already selling some of their successful European models under the Saturn brand but few people know it because they have no clue how to market them.
  32. City Pig from Canada writes: For years the big three have been living in a dream world. The rest of the world has seen ever higher fuel prices but these guys couldn't see the writing on the wall.

    Then you've got the CAW types pushnig the prices through the roof with rediculous wages. I can't believe all those MBA type executives didn't see this coming. $50K for a pick up truck that gets crap gas milage, what nobody wants them any more?
  33. Take an Extra Sweater from Tirana, writes:
    Like, are we supposed to care?

    The markets have a very simple, elegant way of sorting the chaff from the wheat.

    In Ford's case, surely saw this coming some time ago. The consumer certainly did!
  34. Bryan . from Canada writes: Ghetto Dude from Istanbul, Turkey writes:
    Among these 3 pink sheet companies of the upcoming years, I think Ford has a comparative advantage for at least having a guy named Ford as its CEO, not some stranger swindler like that of GM who only cares about his own benefits.

    ................................

    Ford CEO Alan Mulally. Maybe his middle name is Ford? Bill Ford Jr. is the Chairman and replaced himself as CEO as he was doing a horrible job. Probably the best thing he did was bring in Mulally
  35. I don't think... therefore I vote conservative! (common sense is back) from Canada writes: .

    I wonder how many conservatives are besides themselves today at the fact that Ford has finally seen the light and will be producing more energy-efficient vehicles.

    conservatives hate vehicles and technology that gets more than 1 mile a gallon
  36. B T from Toronto, Canada writes: On Edge from Canada writes: If only they had taken the smaller vehicle market seriously all along ...
    __

    Ever been to the UK? We went and rented a car and it was a Ford Fusion. Much like HONDA and TOYOTA in the UK they build them with a different design and typically in Diesel. The model won't sell in America because here we are all about 'bigger/better/faster' and we are pretty greedy. Fuel costs in the world have been up for years, we have been spoilt and are now complaining.

    We personally own and love our Honda Civic. There are NO UNIONS (by the way Unions are NOT Conservative Agenda more NDP) and they are fuel efficient with fair value and durability.
  37. Chuck the Canuk from anytown, Canada writes: All 3 North American auto manufacturers will be headed to chapter 11 soon I suspect. They still don't get it. The oil will be gone sooner than anyone has previously thought, and gas will continue to rise in price. They still think they can bully and push their way through a recession by selling gas guzzling monster trucks and SUV's. They are passe kids. As much as I loved them 40 years ago, they are history now. No more $.89 cent a gallon gas (that would be about 22 cents a litre for the Canuks) It is time the automakers brought out the technology they stole from Stanley Meyer. And the auto workers union is partly to blame also for their ridiculously high wages for doing assembly line work. How much exactly DO they make? $30 $40 $50 an hour to do work that anyone can learn to do in a week or 2? Gimme a break. I imagine that alone adds thousands extra in the selling price.
  38. Ghetto Dude from Istanbul, Turkey writes: Bryan . from Canada, yes you are absolutely right about the CEO matter. I have given an end to following what these auto crooks are doing a few years ago, after the bonds I bought for 90 dropped to 60s. Anyway, I want to hope that there is some owner of Ford around unlike the anonymous corporation of GM.
  39. Greg Van Zandt from Canada writes: Tim Bryson from Claresholm, AB., Canada writes: For the last ten years, the Honda Civic has been the best selling car in Canada. Why? Looks like Ford is finally starting to see the light
    ==========

    Really? The Ford F150 is the top-selling vehicle of all time.

    It’s been the best selling vehicle in the US for the past 23 years, the best selling vehicle in Canada for the past 5 years, the best selling truck in the US for the past 30 years, and the best selling truck in Canada for the past 42 years running straight
  40. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: Chuck the Canuk from anytown, Canada writes: 'It is time the automakers brought out the technology they stole from Stanley Meyer.'

    Huh? They need to start becoming con artists?

    How is deceiving investors and lying going to help them? Sure I guess it might work for a short while like it did with Stanley Meyer, but people will catch on to the con and probably take them to court to get their money back, like what happened to Stanley Meyer when his lies started unraveling.
  41. Greg Van Zandt from Canada writes: Ford touting quality equal to that of Toyota and Honda

    The Bloomfield Hills, Michigan-based RDA Group has found that Ford is on par with top-level stalwarts Toyota and Honda when it comes to vehicle quality. Ford managed 1,284 'things-gone-wrong' (TGW) per 1,000 vehicles during the first three months of ownership this year, statistically matching the two top Japanese brands, which are tied at 1,250 TGW. Though it certianly won't be the last word in the ongoing debate as to who makes the best cars, it is at least a good sign for Ford. Perhaps what's most impressive is that 36 of 40 Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Volvo and Mazda nameplates improved this year versus 2007. Ford's performance in this study marks an eight-percent improvement over the previous year, at which time they were tied with Toyota, but trailing industry-leader Honda. While Ford is glad to see quality improving, every automaker would surely like to sit alone at the top of the quality rankings, and Ford is no different.

    Ford builds some pretty good vehicles these days, but faces a large perceived quality gap, as only 41-percent of consumers consider Ford vehicles according to their own internal data

    Ya that foreign car you overpaid for...it may make you FEEL smarter but that don't make it so.
  42. Bryan . from Canada writes: Ghetto Dude from Istanbul, Turkey writes:

    No problem thought I would bug you a bit.

    The Ford family is still in there as well Kirkorian has started amassing a sizable position. I don't know what influence he has anymore as his GM stake went nowhere but we shall see.
  43. puddin and pie from Canada writes: Do Toyota, Honda, etc automakers' profits benefit North America?

    where does that gas/oil/diesel in your tank come from?

    T. Boone Pickens has a point about where our dollars end up.

    up your nose, crackheads?
  44. westcoast Groovin from Canada writes: I traded my Ford Mustang for a new KIA and I smile every day I get into it. I would buy North American when I get the product, financing and quality I want.
  45. westcoast Groovin from Canada writes: Puddin and Pie, the gas, gasoline and diesel (if I used any) come from Alberta and S.E. BC which are in Canada last time I looked and pay federal taxes. What exactly is your point...?
  46. Master T from Burlington, Canada writes: I think the thing we can all agree on is that the former 'Big 3' still don't get it. From the drawing board right down to the lack of fine details and finish in the bulk of their vehicles (perhaps Cadillac is moving in the right direction).

    'I don't think... therefore I vote conservative! (common sense is back) from Canada' - quit being a tard. This is not a political issue. It may be in the future, but not yet, and not in this article.

    And you know what? I am a Conservative who has real hopes that Europe's raft of fine, refined, powerful, clean diesel engines make it to North America - because believe it or not, they are a better alternative to conserving oil than hybrid cars - they offer economy and power where you can most use it in daily driving - down low.

    Think about what you're saying before you toot your horn and make yourself look dumb.
  47. Master T from Burlington, Canada writes:

    Greg Van Zandt from Canada writes: Really? The Ford F150 is the top-selling vehicle of all time.

    Actually the Volkswagen Beetle followed by the Toyota Corolla, followed by the Volkswagen Golf are the best selling vehicles of all time.

    The F-150 is a North America only vehicle and does't even make the top 10.

    Sorry dude.
  48. Right Said Fred from Canada writes: During the age of the dinosaurs the largest of them lived towards the end of the cretaceous period, ie. when the asteroid hit in mexico and wiped them out, the T-rex and brontosauruses were the largest of their kind at the end.....

    Fast forward to today and you can relate the Small 3 to the same predicament in a sense. If you went to the NAIAS in detroit over past few years you would see GM as the largest on display followed by Ford. They would also proudly be sporting their largest Trucks and SUV's all shined up and large gas guzzling sport cars, lately ZR1 corvette and CTS-V cadillac (the epitome of respective cars). Alas just like the largest Dinosaurs existed at the end, so too do these types of vehicles. In a cheap energy, cheap credit, world, these vehicles would thrive, but that world has changed on a dime. Combine that with unions, and massive inefficiency and reliability and you get what you have now. The end of the mighty American based car industry. Sure they will survive in some form, but never ever to what they once were.
  49. Greg Van Zandt from Canada writes: Master T from Burlington, Canada writes: Greg Van Zandt from Canada writes: Really? The Ford F150 is the top-selling vehicle of all time. Actually the Volkswagen Beetle followed by the Toyota Corolla, followed by the Volkswagen Golf are the best selling vehicles of all time. The F-150 is a North America only vehicle and does't even make the top 10. Sorry dude. ---------------- No need to be sorry, just need to be better informed! 'Last year it sold its 912,000 unit for a single year to extend their winning streak topping its class for 28 straight years and to 23 years as the overall best-seller. This made the F-series the top-selling vehicle of all time with almost 30 million units sold crashing the records of the Ford Model T (15million units) and the Volkswagen Beetle (20million units). ' http://www.free-press-release.com/news/200505/1116374717.html 'In 2003, the F150 sold 850,000 units in one year to become the best-selling vehicle overall for the past 22 years. Last year it sold its 912,000 unit for a single year to extend their winning streak topping its class for 28 straight years and to 23 years as the overall best-seller. This made the F-series the top-selling vehicle of all time with almost 30 million units sold crashing the records of the Ford Model T (15million units) and the Volkswagen Beetle (20million units).' http://ezinearticles.com/?Ford-F-150:-The-Top-Selling-Vehicle-of-All-Time-Hits-the-Road-Anew;--Best-Quality-Ford-Parts-Offered&id=37109
  50. Carl Hansen from Canada writes: Even Tiger doesn't own a Buick. That's a Chinese car isn't it?

    I think Ford will make it out of chapter 11.
  51. Stephen R from Canada writes: I don't think... therefore I vote conservative! (common sense is back) from Canada writes: .I wonder how many conservatives are besides themselves today at the fact that Ford has finally seen the light and will be producing more energy-efficient vehicles.
    conservatives hate vehicles and technology that gets more than 1 mile a gallon
    ---------------------

    You must be a paid conservative, as your whole purpose on these boards is to make people vote conservative.
  52. - Nostradamus from Halifax, Canada writes: By the time Ford has fuel efficient cars are ready for market, in 2010 or 2012, the oil crisis will be much worse, and by then gasoline will be $5 a liter:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=D7fFffo3XE8

    The Big 3 need to get ahead of the energy crisis curve and start building all electric vehicles now so these cars will be ready for the market in 2012 when oil production goes into terminal decline and gasoline will become very expensive and rationed:

    http://canada.theoildrum.com/node/3958

    ===
  53. John Hamilton from Canada writes: And how are all the big, fat Americans going to fit into these small compact and sub-compact economy cars?
  54. Friendly Anglo from Canada writes: John Hamilton - they will fit in the same way the big fat Canadians do.
  55. The Central Screwtinizer from Ottawa, Canada writes: Have you beaten a Ford lately... what was their first clue? Stupid greedy people from stupid schools of mismanagement! Probably trying to fit an American-Fast-Food Drive-Thru-Super-Size-IT-Junk-Food-Knosher into a car can to be quite frank...watch out Canada, we are not too far behind... I hate spending my hard earned cash on gas-gas-gas! which is why I've been driving Honda Civics since 1985 and they just keep making them better and made in Canada in Alliston, ON, I believe. Bonus! I don't even want to consider the Civic Si which uses premium gas...hello! Premium was up to $1.55/litre nose bleed section just recently... let alone filling up a double 75 litre tank for $200 plus...need your head examined.
  56. The Central Screwtinizer from ottawa, Canada writes: Perhaps the sub-compact can be made to convert into a coffin for the fast food crowd...
  57. Bobby Culture from Canada writes: Nothing like going through a slow death!!!
  58. w b from Canada writes: Hello,

    I think it is time to stop reporting on the condition of AMERICAN car companies. We all know they suck mechanically, they suck gas, and on and on....

    I think the next report should just be 'RIP GM' 'RIP FORD' and that is it. Take them off life support and let them die an honourable death.

    Sorry to all those who lost work it is a shame you were fooled by such a bad union and a bunch of lying CEO's
  59. Charles Brown from Vancouver, BC, Canada writes: Two things killing the North American auto industry: The unions (wastage, high pay, benefits and pensions) and the inability of the companies to produce something the market wants.
  60. Ob Server from Canada writes: Greg Van Zandt....Your statistics are all suspect. Just because you can write a big number doesn't make it true. The best year in Ford history for F150 series was 2001 when they sold 911,597 units in total. Since then it's been on the decline. So much so that Ford has made 2 radical make-overs on the F150 in the past 5 years and had to cut the margins significantly to sell 700,000 in 2005. As for how long they've been #1 and so on...do the research and find out for yourself...it ain't like you say. I do agree that the F150 is probably the top pick-up on the market but it's a fuel pig and it's too bloated.
  61. RS IslandReader from Canada writes: The big 3 saw a problem in early 80’s and started building somewhat acceptable cars (K car), at least, they appeared to be on the right track. By late eighties and early nineties, they returned to building junk and used slogans to buy “American built” with the pretension that this was good for our economy. I would think they have a much bigger problem than just starting to make a decent vehicle. Due to 30 years of constant lies about the quality, where there was none, there is simply now mistrust. It appears to me they would have some tough job to win back some of their old customers. Interestingly, if I list through the paper to look at the advertisement of cars, the pages with Ford, Chrysler or Chevrolet do not even register, they are simply blank. Bringing cars from Overseas to fill the gap quickly is just another flop ready to backfire, which “The Suits” just do not understand. I have witnessed this before (Simca, Cricket, Stealth, and the list goes on). Once in a while a few lucky technicians in the dealership will receive a ONE DAY course, to service/repair new models. (Sometimes it takes a long time to find location of the hood release, never mind repairing sophisticated fuel injection problem on a newly introduced vehicle). It is easy to transport goods, but the backbone to support them will be missing. Where other manufactures excelled with knowledge how important it is to have a good warranty and trained people for repairs, the big three failed miserably. In case you are wondering, I am the lucky guy who got the one day course. And, hey you CEO, give yourself another fat bonus for coming up with the fix, so you can pillage some more before another lie is revealed.
  62. Ghetto Dude from Istanbul, Turkey writes: Bryan . from Canada, if one's counterpart is Kirkorian (or whichever card counter), that person does not represent a corporation anymore, he is a loser. The global investor expects a better strategy than fighting against Scooby-Doo zombies or Kirkorian gamblers.
    (This hard to interpret comment translated from a foreign mindset is not against you, I am here to verbalise my hatred towards GM which ate up my 10 grands in return for zero amount of cars.)
  63. Calvin Rice from Prince George, Canada writes: I am from a more northern part of Canada and despite the recent set-backs in the automotive industry, mainly the SUV and truck market, the demand for these vehicles is still very high, here. We are a very resource based region in Canada and the need for this type of transportation is vital in performing our day to day activities. Maybe they should consider re-locating their manufacturing plants to areas where demand for these types of vehicles is largy based on necessity.
  64. Trenton McLeod from Pickering, Canada writes:

    It's time for Buzz to once again do the leftie two-step: go on stike and blame the feds ( he can't blame McGuinty becasue the two of them are pals )
  65. Andrew S from Milton, Canada writes: Ford should just quit while they're at it. $8 billion loss meanwhile they ask for hand-outs from our government. I don't want my tax dollars supporting a failing company. Learn to build a sexy small fuel efficient and inexpensive vehicle. Others have.
  66. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: Greg Van Zandt from Canada writes: "Ford touting quality equal to that of Toyota and Honda"

    One of the problems the Big-3 have is that people do NOT buy cars based on quality or reliability. They buy cars based on the PERCEPTION of quality and reliability.

    Ford could build the absolute best car on the planet with completely faultless reliability, while Toyota could build an absolute lemon, but ask 100 people which they thought was the better quality vehicle and probably 90 would say the Toyota. Why? Because Ford managed to build a reputation for poor quality vehicles over the a 20 year time frame from the late 70's to the late 90's. The missteps they made haunt them to this day and will continue to do so for MANY years.

    The fact that Ford has made some of the most reliable vehicles on the road for 5 years is a start, but really it'll take 15 years of doing so before they really start changing opinions. People have very long memories when it comes to cars.
  67. Mike McFae from Canada writes: I must admit that it is hard to reconcile these massive losses with remaining a going concern. Can someone who understands the numbers of the Big 3 explain how they stay in business ....numbers , not concepts. Thanks
  68. bill johnson from Quebec, Canada writes: All their recent engineering has gone into the new F150, which is now delayed to clear lots of the existing, unsellable trucks. I was in a Euro Focus last year and simply marveled at how good it was. Sad it takes the brink of bankruptcy for the company to get its act together. The new direct injection engines and advanced trannies will help. Ford will come out of this, but at great cost. Notice the decision today did not mention retooling of the St Thomas plant. I think that taxi business is dead, and police cars may follow unless they put a fuel efficient engine in it.
  69. john wardle from Canada writes: Excellent news! Hopefully these junk peddlers will finally die off.
  70. Jack Sprat from BugTussle AB, Canada writes: You know people, you can keep ranting and raving about your Honda's, Kia's, and other imports, but unless you want our economy to start getting even worse then maybe some of you will start changing you're spending habit's.

    I can understand buying a Honda or Toyota that's made in North America, but I can't fathom supporting some other country's industry, especially outside North America. This should also go to other products beside vehicles. Really people, if you want things over here to get worse then just keep buying products that employ people from everywhere but here. I realize you can't buy everything Canadian or U.S. made, but in some instances we can make a difference. I know that I'm doing my best to support our own economy. It starts with little things and it becomes contagious. Why buy a bottle of wine from France or Germany, when we have good wine right here. In the end, if we support our own workers then they have money to spend here.
  71. PETER T from Toronto, Canada writes: All I can is right now for Ford, if the grease is not working at one end, they wont be able to lubricate all the wheels with the grease (which is money)...Look at their financial statements, what hits the fan for them is massive write offs at leases that they took back or depreciations that those car they have to take back once people signed up for walk-away leases..Go to autotrader, look at the 2006 fusion...you can get it at 50% of the full value of the car...Here is the quote from their financial statement..."In its financial report, Ford Motor said its writeoffs included $5.3 billion in North America and $2.1 billion for Ford Credit's truck-heavy lease portfolio. Chief financial officer Don Leclair said most of the writedown was triggered by the drop in value of the company's truck and SUV inventory and lease residuals."
  72. Nassar Ben Houdja from Canada writes: Won't be long before the parasites rejoicing over the afflictions of the north american auto makers will be sniveling for government handouts when the spin off economic misfortunes arrive. Fortunately for the East coast and West, imports run on hydrocarbons available in aforementioned locations. Ontario would do well to rethink and work with the former big three. Or, go east or west if you want to be part of something that works.
  73. Gordon Murray from Canada writes: "Long on siesta and short on Fiesta" says $8.7B loss, eH?
  74. john wardle from Canada writes: Jack Sprat from BugTussle AB - what you're proposing is simply to support bad behavior and poor decision making all in the name of national pride. Forget it!
  75. Bob McDonald from Canada writes: The big 3 created the the SUV market to get out from under the US Federal rules for safety, emissions control and fuel economy. SUVs are classified as "small work trucks" and so are not as limited by safety rules, fuel consumption rules and emissions standards. Detroit made us believe SUVs were safer - NOT TRUE. Detroit made us believe SUVs were more "green" - NOT TRUE. Detroit made us believe SUVs were better built - NOT TRUE.

    Now, Detroit is faced with consumers that are no longer easily manipulated by their marketing deceptions. Detroit will surely suffer but it's not like its a surprise. Detroit created the false demand for SUVs so they must have known what consumers really wanted.

    Note that this is a lesson they failed to learn in the '70s so feel no sympathy for the auto corporations - even the unions were aware of all of this so don't feel sorry for them either. Let foriegn companies sell us cars until the mandarines in Detroit die off.
  76. emilio D from Canada writes: They should revive the Pinto line but make it smaller. The Pinto is the most fuel efficient , least polluting and greenist car ever designed. The damned thing won't start, always in the garage. BCAA hates it.
  77. Hairy Wrangellian from Saltspring Island, Canada writes: All these people talking about the vastly improved quality of cars from the North American carmakers; they might be better than they used to be, but they're still far behind the Japanese and Europeans, at least according to Consumer Reports, which tends to analyze reliability rather thoroughly. Their message is, with a very few exceptions, if you want quality and reliability, buy Japanese.
  78. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Silver standard (Used to be gold) from Canada writes:

    These guys must be propped up by government, I just can't see how they are still open...

    I agree

    Could I also suggest you have a look at this report on Corporate Welfare Recipients in Canada:

    http://www.taxpayer.com/pdf/2007(underscore)corporate(underscore)welfare(underscore)report.pdf

    See list of "Top 50 Financial Assistance Recipients, Fiscal Years 1982-2005"

    #3 - GM
    #11 - Ford

    Cheers
  79. Red Black from Down home, Canada writes: Had a Made in Japan Accord, right after having a Made in Canada Accord; had I got the japanese Accord first, I would have never bought another Accord. Even had to replace the radio power-antenna twice (on warranty). Exhaust system typically self-destructed after three years. Good thing Honda had a good warranty, although I always seemed to be requiring parts that wre not in stock. Have a Mystique with over 175,000 km; I have been so satisfied with this car that I tell my wife I won't trade until it (or the Mondeo) is again available here. One reason it was dropped was poor sales due to too many people mistakenly assuming it was the replacement for the Tempo-Topaz econoboxes, which the Contour-Mystique wasn't. Heck, was a World-car more than a euro: mine was built in Kansas City, has the US-built Duratec V-6, coupled with a german-built manual transmission. One last thing: anybody noticed there are few old japanese cars on the roads? One way the Japanese had an edge over US carmakers in cost-control was that their cars were not over-engineered: whereas you bought a Ford with an alternator that was good for 20 years, the (insert japanese name-plate of your choice) you would buy would have an alternator built to last eight years... like the rest of the car. Cuold be no longer so, now, with parts now engineered to last 5 years instead...
  80. S.L. S from Small Town, Canada writes: Just a shot in the dark here but maybe if the big 3 stopped paying unskilled labour $40.00 and hour, got rid of the crooked unions and put out a product that was actually worth $35,000 instead having to pay $35,000 for a vehicle only worth $16,000, then maybe they'd show a profit. Ford, GM and Chrysler make crap vehicles and the profit margins are showing it. A $35,000 vehicle should last more than 5 years and should not have to be in the shop getting fixed every 3 to 4 months. Garbage in, garbage out. Pretty simple really.
  81. Charles Smith from United Kingdom writes: R Miller from Halifax - Thanks for the link - very interesting. I was surprised to see Repap listed - it was a pulp and paper mill in northern NB that was finally sold to UPM, but after continual losses the Finnish company did what they had to do and shut it down. At the end of the day, how else can government transfer money from the rich resources sector to the weaker sectors? Those royalties from oil, and mining are going to keep other parts of the country alive. Be aware that most of the world would rather you not subsidise other sectors, but simply sell the resources at a cheaper price!
    The problem I think is that government is handing out money like corporate welfare, rather than the government investing in infrastructure and protecting the people and the markets - let the strong businesses survive and the weak die.
  82. Sandra L from Mississauga, Canada writes: Gross mismanagement and greed are what drives losses to this extent. No other excuse. I pray to god nobody bails them out with taxpayer $s, enough has been shovelled into a losing proposition.
  83. Bobby Culture from Canada writes: Someone said yesterday gasoline prices will drop substantially by 2009!!!!

    I personally don't believe it ... wishful thinking.

    But if the prediction is true, go figure ...
  84. Thurthston Thithterthinthon from Canada writes: Why aren't the big 3 fasttracking the hydrogen electric cars, pushing to put the infrastructure in place in NAmerica, retool the plants to build these cars. R&D the technology so it just gets better and better each year. I know its a dawnting task but building gas powered cars is killing these automakers. The mentality has to change with corporate NAmerica not to mention the Governments to get this technology out. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe....duh!!!
  85. Belle Kurve from Canada writes: One thing Ford could do is start shipping in the extremely well built and fuel efficient European models like the Ka and the Focus - neither of which are available here. They get great mileage too. They could start shipping their surplus Expeditions where there is still some demand like Russia.
  86. Child of the North in Canada from Canada writes: Lots of trash-talking in these posts:

    1. The price of oil and gas will drop significantly and North Americans will be crying for big vehicles again. Who wants to haul a family of five or six with the dog to the family camp up north two hours away in a Honda Civic?

    2. People in resource towns drive big trucks out of necessity. You can't haul the tools of your trade around in a Kia. The trick for the car companies is to produce a reliable full-size truck that runs on alternative fuel. Diesel trucks are more gas efficient but with the price of diesel surpassing regular gas I'm not sure that they save you money.

    3. The big three automakers do make some good vehicles at decent prices. Some Japanese and European cars are crap. We have owned Buicks and Saturns that seem to go forever with few repairs and the Saturn has great gas mileage. Time to think independently rather than use the herd mentality that the big three make only expensive, gas guzzling junk.

    4. The lazy, overpaid workers at the big three car companies help set the wages for the non-unionized workers at the Honda and Toyota plants. If wages are reduced drastically at the big three or production is shifted to Mexico, where wages are substantially lower, then you can rest assured that wages will drop accordingly at the non-unionized plants in Ontario. The only difference between the two groups of car plant workders is that the unionized workers have had to go on strike to get concessions.

    5. In a country where oil workers in Fort Mac and miners in Sudbury routinely make well over 100K is it wrong for people in the car plants to make 40/hr? Just asking because the day all workers in Canada work for 10/hr is the day our economy really takes a nosedive. I guess only CEOs and investment bankers should be hauling down big salaries.
  87. J F from Canada writes: It is important that GM and Ford survive as auto manufactures in North America. There are a thousand reasons for that. Their survival is important to us all
    To trash them for past mistakes, and not support them in their transformtion efforts is foolish.
    Their current product mix is a disaster in todays environment. We can say they should have seen oil going to 140 dollars a barrel, but none of us saw that either.
    They make excellent midsize cars, and I have absolutely no complaints about the Buicks and Pontiacs I have owned and currently own. When people say GM cars are crap, they do not know what they are talking about at all.
    I will continue to buy GM and possibly Ford , and the rest of us should be doing that as well
  88. Brian King from Sydney, Australia writes: Used to work for Ford (Ford Credit) back in the 70's. Bought a BMW 2002 in 1976 and never returned to North American cars. Moved to Australia in the 1980's where Ford and GM were then dominent. No longer. Japanese and Euro cars dominate here. Our company fleet has enjoyed Euro cars Americans turn their noses up at: Peugeot, Renault, Citroen, Alfa Romeo. Quelle Domage for North American drivers! Currently I drive a 2006 Alfa Romeo 156 JTS 2.0l petrol wagon for work and a 2008 Alfa Romeo 159 2.2l petrol sedan for personal use. Amazing driver's cars: a joy to drive, incredible quality and returning 7.3l/100 kms around town. Recently, we've seen the introduction Down Under of the new Euro Ford Mondeo, joining Euro Ford Focus and Ford Fiesta. Far superior to the locally made Falcon. As for cars "engineered" in North America? Oxymoronic!