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Brothers under the skin

JEREMY CATO

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 4:10 PM EST 01/08/08

Car makers don't hesitate to use one vehicle as the platform for another, sharing basic mechanical parts while using styling and features to create a new model. The trick is to make consumers believe they really are different cars ...Read the full article

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  1. Jay Sherman from Canada writes: Having experienced the Camry Hybrid and Lexus ES350 from the passenger seat, I can confirm that Lexus cabin is better appointed than the Camry's. The Lexus' cabin was plain but nicely-appointed while the Camry's was plan and cheap looking (although the "futuristic" plastics were an interesting conversation piece). The problem I have with badge-engineered cars is that the lower end badge model often lands up looking like a bean-counter's wet dream while the marginal cost of the higher end badge model is often hard to justify due to nearly identical driving dynamics. I wouldn't feel right spending an extra $5000, just as I wouldn't feel right spending $250 / ticket to see the Bills play an exhibition game in Toronto when somebody in Buffalo can pay $125 / ticket to watch the same team from similar seats play against better competition in a more meaningful games. The IS offers both a well-appointed interior and a relatively entertaining drive, but I believe the ES outsells it. Not a surprise given Lexus' target demograph... Although off-topic, I must provide a warning regarding about one of the IS350's quirks during winter operation: The IS350 drives very nicely, but my dad recently swapped his '06 IS350 for an '06 G35X because the IS350 was uncontrollable in icy conditions when the engine was cold. It turns out that the engine would idle at high rev's until it was sufficiently warmed-up; this led to the rear sliding out at stop signs unless the car was switched into neutral. If you're considering the IS-350 (RWD)...beware. During a conversation with a Lexus salesperson at the 2008 Toronto Auto Show, we confirmed that this was an issue with all IS-350's. I wouldn't be surprised if the IS-F was less dangerous in the winter than the IS-350...anyone want to run a head to head cold-start comparo in icy conditions?
  2. Belle Kurve from Canada writes: I think there is an important distinction between rebadging (long an important marketing tool of US manufacturers) and cross platform design which is more sophisticated in purpose..

    Outrageous rebadging efforts include the Volvo V40 which is just a Mitsubishi with a different hood and a higher price and most US cars (remember the Acadian/Chevy II from the 60s and the Cadillac Cimarron?).

    Cross platform design efforts include theSAAB 93 which shares mechanicals with the Vauxhall and the Saturn I believe and even the old Saab 9000 which was also available from Alfa Romeo and Fiat in slightly different form.

    Really innovative efforts are coming at the micro car level where two companie like Renault and Nissan are working out great ways to make small cars ultraefficient.
  3. Job Patstone from Burlington, Canada writes: A great example of rebadging is the Toyota Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe. Both very successful brands and reliable vehicles. Stick with the 1.8L engine though (toyota). The new GT Vibe is powered by the 2.2L chevy cavalier, cobalt, sunfire bla bla bla, not so reliable.
  4. C. Fletcher from Canada writes: I'm surprised Mr. Cato didn't mention GM as an example of bad rebadging given that he's written profusely about how GM has too many irrelevant brands. Some guy from GM may have pioneered the pratice of "brand engineering," but it was the same company that took the concept to an all new level of absurbdity. For example, does GM really think that it's fooling anyone when it sticks four different badges on the same vehicle and call it Traverse, Outlook, Acadia or Enclave? The worst is you can get each of those clones in 3-4 different trims. What would be wrong with having a plebian version (Chevy) and an upscale version (Buick) of that vehicle like most other car companies would do?

    If anything, Ive' always found that the practice of "trigger-happy rebadging" à la GM renders the car shopping experience much more confusing than it needs to be. Though I have no scientific evidence to support this, I suspect that GM ends up loosing a few potential customers who just can't bother with figuring out which of the clones is best for them.
  5. Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes: .
    It's also called badge defiling. GM markets essentially identical cars under numerous nameplates reinforcing meaningless and insignificant distinctions with millions of marketing dollars that would be better spend bolstering the brands with distinct and appropriate vehicles
    .
  6. Roberto Calvario from Toyota HQ, Canada writes: I don't know anyone dumb enough to buy the Acura CSX Type-S over the Honda Civic Si (Sedan). I didn't look over the features but it is essentially the same car with leather and a few extra techno-gadgets in the Acura; but not enough to justify the price differential. Honda: $26,680. Acura: $33,400. Oh dear.

    Hey C. Fletcher, anything new on the Sundin front?
  7. Peter The Not Quite Great from Canada writes: Contrary to the article I doubt very much the average Lexus ES buyer is aware that this a Camry with some extras and would horrified to find this out. It would just ruin the "snob factor" they paid all that extra dough for.

    And I agree with others that GM has gone way to far with rebadging. Clean it up and simplify it with one mass market brand and one luxury brand like Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infiniti, Honda/Acura, Volkswagen/Audi, etc.
  8. Jennifer R from Ottawa, Canada writes: I looked at a 2004 Mazda 3 & was told by a friend that the engine was a Ford Focus (albeit European Ford Focus engine). Why would I pay the higher price for a Mazda if it's powered by Ford? Just walk across the street to the Ford dealer & save a bit of cash instead....if Ford didn't build rotten cars. That's why I drove a Honda Civic & now a 2007 Mini Cooper (first year with a BMW engine).
  9. A skeptical MD from Canada writes: Jennifer, you're concerned that Ford builds rotten cars so you bought a Mini? Time to wake up. JD Power rates Mini dead last for initial quality ratings by brand, well behind Ford.
  10. John Lansing from Toronto, Canada writes: Sharing has resulted in some amazing vehicles.

    The Cadillac CTS-V packing Z06 'vette muscle. The Audi RS4 sedan, with an R8 engine sitting up front. The new Audi S6 and S8 that share a very slightly detuned version of the Lamborghini Gallardo V10. Or the new Shelby GT500 that practically has a Ford GT under the hood (!). These are some amazing performance cars that owe a great deal to generous driveline sharing!

    As for the Mazda 3 being a Focus, I believe in both chassis refinement and sheer looks it's clear Mazda did very, very well in taking that car well past it's roots -- and the number of 3s on the road show that the buying public is rewarding them for the effort. Until we get the proper European model Focus here (which is a looker in its own right, when seen up close -- what a C pillar line), and Ford stops marketing their current car as if only 22 year olds buy them, the 3 is the finer choice by a mile.
  11. Belle Kurve from Canada writes: Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes: .
    It's also called badge defiling. GM markets essentially identical cars under numerous nameplates reinforcing meaningless and insignificant distinctions with millions of marketing dollars that would be better spend bolstering the brands with distinct and appropriate vehicles

    ___________ agree completely - by rebadging a GM truck and slapping on the SAAB name so to compete with Volvo - the SAAB 9-7 I think - GM truly destroyed a great car maker's reputation

    similar to what Ford did to the Jag though there it was more self inflicted

    In Japan - the brands Lexus, Infiniti and Acura don't exist I believe - either you buy a hgh end Japanese car by Toyota, Nissan or Honda - or you don't
  12. John Lansing from Toronto, Canada writes: Belle, one good thing about the tastes of younger automotive fans (and eventual buyers) is they might wake up the makers to the reality you've described in Japan.

    Most young guys I know would much rather drive an authentic Nissan Skyline or Subaru STi than any rebranded, rebadged "up-market" car presented an an alternative (and most of the typical German "sport" makes at that). That's one reason the "Saabaru" failed -- of those buyers in that niche, the Subaru name actually carried much greater cachet! The marketeers were so clearly stuck in their linear, traditional "upmarket" brand model they didn't see that coming.
  13. andy c from Canada writes: i dont mind to much if car companies rebadge cars, but if they do the should at least change more then the logo on the front and back. GM is the worst offender of this with there chevy, gmc and pontiac lines. honda only has one really noticable one with the civic and csx. heck the honda element is based on a civic chassis.
  14. Brian Renaud from Calgary, Canada writes: John from Toronto:

    The Shelby and the Ford GT are two different engines. The GT has an all alluminum 5.4 supercharged engine with completely different internals while the GT500 has an iron-block 5.4 supercharged.

    Just a proud Mustang owner wanting to clarify.
  15. A A from Canada writes: Lets face it. Consumers are not stupid and there is a difference between a GMC Acadia and the Buick Enclave (not so much the Outlook and Traverse). THere is also a significant difference between the Accord and TL.

    If I was a manufacturer being squeezed for dollars due to competetive market place, rising commodoties, etc.....I would be doing the same thing

    I sometimes think Cato is on something when writes these articles.
  16. Ad Hoc from Canada writes: A A from Canada writes: Lets face it. Consumers are not stupid and there is a difference between a GMC Acadia and the Buick Enclave (not so much the Outlook and Traverse). THere is also a significant difference between the Accord and TL. If I was a manufacturer being squeezed for dollars due to competetive market place, rising commodoties, etc.....I would be doing the same thing

    really? then why do they only do it in North America?

    its US style marketing pure and simple and it does not work anymore
  17. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: Roberto Calvario from Toyota HQ, Canada writes: "I don't know anyone dumb enough to buy the Acura CSX Type-S over the Honda Civic Si (Sedan)."

    I think Honda really screwed up with the pricing on the current Acura CSX, WAY out with what they are offering and significantly more than the Acura EL it replaced.

    With the old EL the pricing made sense. The concept was the same, basically a Honda Civic with the Acura luxury treatment, and it was priced to match, only a few thousand more than a fully equipped Civic. The funny thing is that the CSX Type S actually ends up being about the same price as the much higher-end TSX.
  18. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: Ad Hoc from Canada writes: "really? then why do they only do it in North America?"

    Only in North America?!?! Hardly!

    Virtually every Peugeot has a Citroen equivilent, and usually there are two or three of each one with different body shapes. The Peugeot 107/Citroen C1 take it a step further by being the same basic car as the Toyota Aygo.

    The Mazda 5 is fairly new here as an almost-minivan version of the Mazda 3, but it's been sold as such in Europe for a bit and that is a fairly normal setup for most European car companies.

    Japan hasn't done as much of this as their culture seems to favour monolithic corporations, however they have had more then a few cases of brand rebadging as well.

    The American car companies might have taken this concept the furthest, but they're hardly alone.
  19. Clutch Cargo from Canada writes: Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: Ad Hoc from Canada writes: "really? then why do they only do it in North America?"

    Only in North America?!?! Hardly!

    Virtually every Peugeot has a Citroen equivilent, and usually there are two or three of each one with different body shapes. The Peugeot 107/Citroen C1 take it a step further by being the same basic car as the Toyota Aygo.

    The Mazda 5 is fairly new here as an almost-minivan version of the Mazda 3, but it's been sold as such in Europe for a bit and that is a fairly normal setup for most European car companies.
    _____

    You need to read the above posts on the distinction betwen cross platform design and simple rebadging
  20. Hydro Glen from United States writes: Reply to Belle Kurve from Canada writes:

    ...GM truly destroyed a great car maker's reputation...similar to what Ford did to the Jag though there it was more self inflicted

    I agree completely. By replacing the Lucas electrical systems and other key components, Ford did much to destroy Jag's reputation for shoddy quality and equipment failures. Self-inflicted, indeed.
  21. Clutch Cargo from Canada writes: Hydro Glen from United States writes: Reply to Belle Kurve from Canada writes:

    ...GM truly destroyed a great car maker's reputation...similar to what Ford did to the Jag though there it was more self inflicted

    I agree completely. By replacing the Lucas electrical systems and other key components, Ford did much to destroy Jag's reputation for shoddy quality and equipment failures. Self-inflicted, indeed.

    ____________________

    Lucas - Prince of Darkness
    I think the reference here is taking a unique automobile with prestige and history and slapping it onto a Ford platform - underneath it was just an overpriced lincoln/thunderbird. Let's see if TATA can do better.
  22. Luc Lafrance from Ottawa, Canada writes: Peter The Not Quite Great from Canada writes: "Contrary to the article I doubt very much the average Lexus ES buyer is aware that this a Camry with some extras and would horrified to find this out. It would just ruin the "snob factor" they paid all that extra dough for."

    Drive a Camry and an ES back to back; they are not the same automobiles. I own an ES and I was indeed shocked at how much money I saved when I picked the ES over the competition I considered: CTS, G37, C-Class, etc.
  23. A A from Canada writes: Ad Hoc: Don't make assumptions.

    Hmmmmm where to start......

    -Acura sells the TL in China along with the Accord.
    -ES350 and Camry are sold in the Middle east markets
    -Acura will be launched in Japan
    -Infiniti will be launched the G37 alongside the 350Z which share similar components.

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