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ROAD TEST

Well-built wagon

JEREMY CATO

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 1:35 PM EST 16/08/08

This diesel VW could be a perfect car for our times ...Read the full article

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  1. t s from United States writes: We have owned a 2002 VW Jetta TDI Wagon for 140k miles averaging 49.6 mpg summer and winter. Love the car as do many friends who own one. VW lost their way in 2004 when they upped the horsepower and dropped the mileage of the diesel, but it looks like they learned their lesson. The 2002 and 2003 TDI Jettas sell at a premium here in the US and have held their value better than any compact car regardless of brand.
  2. J G from Canada writes: Not sure why anyone would pay so much more for a hybrid option when a diesel delivers equal gas mileage, more torque, longevity and for less money.
  3. NotASpoiledAthelete - from Canada writes: A little help please from any VW owners.... My wife & I were recently looking at ordering the Jetta Diesel wagon, but have been very hesitant because of VWs reliability record..

    Is it as bad as people make it out to be? I hope not because this car looks like the perfect, perfect answer for our family..it certainly impressed us at the dealership.

    Cheers all around.
  4. James Eaton from Nepean, Canada writes: Reliability? I'll comment, as the past owner of three VWs (a Rabbit and two Golfs) and a Toyota Corolla, and the current owner of a Toyota Matrix. The VWs were at least as reliable as the Toyotas - though in it's 11th year, the Rabbit started having little troubles. The last Golf, a 1995, went through eight years with only one trip to the garage that wasn't routine maintenance - a wire in the starter failed. (The Matrix, by the way, blew the transmission at 40,00 km, so I'm entirely enamoured of Toyota 'quality'.)
  5. NotASpoiledAthelete - from Canada writes: Thanks for your comment James - I'm very glad to hear of your experience..I just think the diesel is the perfect answer - def not hybrids..too expensive and they have non-recyclable batteries that have to be buried once they're dead.

    It's funny about reliability because right now we have an X-Trail, and it's been pretty trouble free but our last 3 visits for servicing have averaged at least $300-$400 per visit!!
  6. Jim Summers from Waterloo, Canada writes: J G, there are a lot of reasons besides highway fuel economy to judge a car. It looks like the Prius and Jetta get about the same highway mileage, but a Prius gets significantly better city mileage and pollutes a lot less. A Prius isn't that much more expensive than a diesel Jetta, depending on the options, so I think there are rational reasons to prefer a Prius over a diesel Jetta. At any rate, it isn't reasonable to generalize about "Deisels" vs. "Hybrids", we have to compare real cars. We are comparing a brand-new diesel model with all the latest technology to a 4-year-old hybrid model. Maybe the 2008 diesel Jetta is a better car than the 2004 Prius; but who knows how much Toyota will be able to improve the next model Prius? Both technologies continue to be improved; no one can predict which will end up better, cheaper or more reliable in the end.
  7. Dan Bleichman from Ottawa, Canada writes: Unlike the gas VWs that are being made in Mexico and still have lots of reliability issues, the diesels are imported from Germany and are much better made. Probably long term costs as well as resale value will be much more favorable with the diesels than hybrids (no need to replace the battery pack every 4-5 years). In the longer term sure plugins with small gas/diesel backup generator are the future. Our next car will be a diesel. the one after that one (around year 2020) will be a plugin hybrid.
  8. Alex D from Ottawa, Canada writes: NotaSpoiledAthelete, the problem with VW stemmed from the 2000-2002ish model years. This was the first run on the new models and many of them came from the Brazilian plant - my Golf included. The work from this plant was sketchy (to be polite) and paired with a whole slew of more cheaply made OEM electronics from Bosch, a perfect storm was brewing. Now take into account that this was when VW went on that whole urban trendster cool-music marketing blitz which did result in many sales. Shoddy product plus thousands of new customers plus not enough dealers to service the mess resulted in a bloody disaster. People were livid.

    It took me the first 40K km to rid myself of every factory defect in my car and there were plenty. But I haven't spent much on the car from 65K to 130K km other than timing belt, door latch, tires and oil. The turbo engine runs like new and outperforms other cars in this class even though it's 8 years old. I find it more fun than my newer Audi.
    VW build quality after 2002 improved significantly, but the damage to VWs reputation lasts to this day. They get no sympathy from me in this regard, but yes, I would buy another one because they accommodate taller drivers and they perform very well on the road, and they have a emotional appeal to them that I just can't find in the competition.

    ... hey, where are all the diesel haters? I expect them to descend on this thread with their pocket rules and particulate statistics shortly...
  9. George BrownIII from Christmas Island writes: I own a VW passat tdi. The fuel economy is great. Comfort is great When I moved I took my VW with me.
    But the drawbacks are;
    It is easier to get a dentist appointed than an oil change at a dealer, mind you it cost over a $100 to get an oil change at a dealer in Canada with the synthetic oil. In the US you can go to an oil change franchise and get the same job done for $40.
    Parts are outrageously expensive after 200K I was advised to change the timing belt KABOOM $1000.
    I had a repair done before a recall over two years now and I am still waiting to get paid.
    And one more thing I cant get my tires alligned, the tire shop wonders if this VW was a wrech that the dealer rebuilt and sold to me with 5000 km so VW dealer if you are reading this you have not gotten away yet.
    Overall I still give VW kudos for their diesels something the not so great 3 big auto makers completely overlooked. My next one could be the saab turbo diesel if GM finally gets the wisdom to start bringing their european diesels to North America.
  10. On Edge from Canada writes: So I guess the 5-cyl. gas Rabbit and Jetta are not in the same league, since that engine is from Mexico, whereas the diesel is from Germany?
  11. Franklin Lomax from ALEXANDRIA, United States writes: Teasing the drivers of fly weight death traps to haul their children in more expensive, lighter, and less safe autos, while savaging 100 million truckers, builders, and infrastructure service industry workers for driving their safer four ton diesels, is not useful. Ignoring the transport fuel savings, and life/death savings, available from incentives for larger diesel drivers, is criminal. Offered a Plug In & Out diesel, with bio-fuel incentives, to reduce his fuel use to zero within 5 hours of home, and power his off grid vacation home, his home during increasingly frequent brownouts, and his tools at work sites, he will buy in. Giving up his three or more log books, legally gaming the Peak Hour grid feeding bonus, running liquid fuel free for half his drive can make sense, with simple incentives. The cost savings, as 1/4th of our existing police enforce 55mph, and the lawyers lose their bonanza, from litigating high speed crashes, pay for the incentives. The large part of 44,000 US deaths from high speed, and the millions of maimed survivors, now suing each other over their misfortunes, would decline, as the economy of the world improves. Mini car drivers could survive, more often, when run over less often, at less than 55mph. Truck's fuel savings, along with portable generator fuel savings change OPEC's world. Plug In and Out bio-diesel capable hybrids provide their owners a free electrical power source for work, with bonus profits from sleeping properly, while charging to the grid at peak hours, or recharging, off peak. Idling while powering the gird for profit, while keeping sleeping drivers warm or cool, and safe from excessive driving hours will save lives, and pay drivers money in addition to 55 mph incentives. Or, we can punish the truckers more, and kill them in droves, in high speed crashes, as they run three log books to burn more diesel, and feed their families. Some 5,600 fatal truck accidents, in 2006, with huge numbers of non-fatal collisions.
  12. Bobby M from New England, United States writes: Got 300,000 km on my 1999 tdi golf...diesel VS hybrid-consider resale-folks were begging for my 1981 diesel rabbit when I sold it...diesel can run alt fuel, veggie, heating oil etc if society collapses...one timing belt one drive system-hybrid has two drive systems, double maintainece. Saftey-Fire chief told me when a hybrid is in a collision they get the manuals out see what type barriers/chemicals they are up against...also, accident can create hi-voltage issues and of course, gas tanks also can explode-diesels not. just more to think about...
  13. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: J G from Canada writes: "Not sure why anyone would pay so much more for a hybrid option when a diesel [...]"

    One good reason is that, until basically this model previous diesels were HORRIBLE when it comes to air pollution. Sure they used less fuel but didn't burn it very cleanly. That's why you haven't been able to purchase diesels (except the Mercedes 'BlueTec') for the past few years, they all failed the new North American Tier 2 emissions tests.

    Even the little SMART car, with it's 0.8L diesel engine, was putting out more pollution per kilometer driven than big V8 gas guzzling SUVs.

    Fortunately this new VW has greatly improved pollution controls.
  14. Shirley Jackson from Oliver, BC, Canada writes: The price of gasoline is astronomical at $1.44 /L. I remember when you could buy gas at 35 cents/L in Calgary in the 1980s. And an Israeli-American war with Iran is highly probable as the fat cats have paid for it. I bet the price will go up. In Canada, hybrids aren't useful outside of the big cities. You have to drive on a highway for one or two or four hours to the next town or small city. So I was excited to read a review of a $70,000 diesel sedan because it got 70 miles per gallon. If diesel cars dominate the market in Europe, can you buy and import a new diesel car from Europe?
  15. Bobby M from New England, United States writes: the air pollution point is somewhat faulty-trucking lobby had resisted low sulfer fuels for as long as possible-fuels and clean diesel tech is here...what are you going to do with all those nasty batteries?
  16. Happy Canadian from Brantford, Canada writes: NotASpoiledAthelete - from Canada writes: A little help please from any VW owners.... My wife & I were recently looking at ordering the Jetta Diesel wagon, but have been very hesitant because of VWs reliability record..

    Is it as bad as people make it out to be? I hope not because this car looks like the perfect, perfect answer for our family..it certainly impressed us at the dealership.

    Cheers all around.
    __________________________
    My husband and I just bought two City-Brand VW's - mine is a 2007 Golf and his is a 2008 Jetta - I was also very hesitant when I read about VW's somewhat "spotty" reliability problems - but so far we love our Cities! By the way.... we are previous Honda-owners - so I'm banking and hoping that our VW's will be reliable - we both expect high-quality and reliable cars. They drive beautifully (i.e. especially the steering and handling feel), their fit & finish is excellent - so far so good for us.
  17. C C from Coombs BC, Canada writes: My 69 Olds Cutlass wieghs 3300 lbs. This thing weighs 3200 lbs. What is going on here?

    The Olds is sporting about 480 horse so it gets around but this VW is a heavy pig.
  18. Alex D from Ottawa, Canada writes: CC: Agreed, they are heavy. Audi is the same. Hence why the smaller displacement engines have disappeared - they just don't get them moving. Mind you, silly stuff like power seating aside, most of it is structural. You can feel it in the doors whereas, Asian car doors feel like tin. There is a benefit: I've walked away from a serious collision in my Passat and my friend walked away from a head-on collision in his A4. I'm impressed by their accident performance. I wouldn't want to experience the same in a Hyundai.
  19. David Griffin from Canada writes: I have an 03 jetta TDI, 5 speed that I bought used with 40oooKM on 2005.

    The car has been excellent. I average about 5L/100. I agree that the price of premium diesel is worth the fuel economy advantage over regular gas. That means about 1000KM per tank.

    I have had few problems with the car. I did change the tires when I bought it to expensive Michelin Hydroedge because the factory tires were noisey.

    Aside from regular maintenance items I have had no concerns or complaints with the car. In fact for a diesel this car is surprisingly fun to drive. The low end torque really helps in passing particularly on hills.

    Another benefit is the diesel engine usually runs sythetic oil. Oil changes are scheduled for 16000KM and run about $100.00

    I would recommend this car to someone who does 40000Km a year or better. It is not a car that performs well on short distance trips. This engine needs to run in order to get the fuel mileage...
  20. NotASpoiledAthelete - from Canada writes: Dan B., Alex D., George Brown, Happy Canadian and David G - thank so very much for your comments and reviews. Those are all very, very helpful.

    At the end I think we will go with the Jetta Wagon..it just fits where we are in life, and we just don't want another CUV or minivan.

    Cheers to you all & safe driving!
  21. Unknown User! from Canada writes: TDIs are the future. VW makes great cares. Reliability isnt on top, definitely not, but ive been driving nothing but VWs since i was 18 and loved every second in them. The problems that actually do occur are easily repairable in your garage after a little research. Engines last forever and the drivetrain is great too. Its just the little things which makes everybody say: VWs a garage, when in fact, theyre awesome.

    Im heavily looking into the 2.0 TDIs. AWESOME AWESOME engine.
  22. Unknown User! from Canada writes: VWs ARE garbage, when infact theyre awesome.
    (CORRECTION)
  23. lary waldman from Qualicum Beach, Canada writes: In 2003 I bought a brand new Jetta Wagon TDI. I have 185,000 kms. on it. A Volkswagen is not a cheap car to own, but if it is well attended to, by a good mechanic, I can honestly say that it is almost as reliable as Porsche, which I have also owned. Currently I haul product to my wifes business once or twice a week, 100 kms. round trip, and use it daily for chores etc. Sunday I often take it out for a run, on some pretty twisty roads. I have not experienced any heart stopping moments with respect to breakdowns, and as this car is fully equipped, and I mean fully equipped, it is the closest I have come to reproducing the feeling of the 5 series BMW, which I also owned, and loved. The thing is, you see, that one way off judging how good a car is, is by trying to go out and buy one. Well you see them everywhere here, and I would not recomend an automatic, but there are none, zero, zip, for sale. That's the good side. The bad side, haven't found it yet.

    Lary Waldman
  24. Mike L. from Canada writes: I'm a die-hard VW fan. Current ride is a gas 2007 Passat wagon and my wife drives a 2005 Passat TDI diesel. The latter has 157,000 km on it and has had nothing other than routine maintenance and the front ball joints changed (bad Quebec roads, happened to our last Honda as well). We did the timing belt change; it's mandated at 160,000 km but the belt on our previous Honda had to be done at 100k. The gas Passat has 57,000 km and so far has been completely reliable.

    I also had a 2004 Jetta TDI wagon. Loved that car, no problems either, but it was totaled in an accident. My wife walked away without a scratch. It would average 5 L/100 km and I did a record 1308 km on a single tank of fuel in that car!!! (filled to the brim).

    I can hardly wait for my 2007 Passat lease to expire so I can pick up a new diesel. Mind you, driven carefully, it averages a respectable 7 L/100 km (mostly rural driving), and gets me well over 900 km per tank, but it quaffs premium unleaded.
  25. Fred Cherney from Toronto, Canada writes: 13 months ago I purchased a 2006 Jetta Diesel made in Mexico. Have driven to Halifax and The Soo in March and never had a stitch of trouble. It amazes me that testers complain about VW's $450 charge for stability control (which I gladly paid). The same testers never seem to point out that stability control in a Prius only comes as part of one of two very expensive packages - One over $3500 and the other over $7500. Makes the VW look much more reasonable, doesn't it? Fred
  26. S H from Windsor, Canada writes: James Eaton and unknown user......cars are made with 1000's of parts from different companies. Failures and problems will happen. It's the nature of the beast. I have owned many chryslers with very little problems. Everyone has different wants and likes, you really can't buy a bad manufactured car or truck today, so give it a rest,
  27. Alex D from Ottawa, Canada writes: Had to replace my Golf's 4 coil packs and one of those pesky overpriced environmental sensors today (at 120K km). Cost of $800.00. A pretty common VW repair. On the bright side, once you go diesel, there's no need for silly things like spark plugs and coil packs.
  28. Chad Remmel from Canada writes: Well count me in as a diesel fan as well. I own a 2000 Golf GLS TDI and love it. Bought it used and did many upgrades - after all it had 283,000 KM on it already. Many cars are off to the salvage lot by this time. My Golf runs strong, I replaced the flimsy factory plastic skid plate with an Evolution Atlas Skid plate (made in Victoria, BC) that is 3/16 inch aluminum. Gotta protect that engine well. The car has a performace kit on it (black box and euro injectors) and has loads of torque and horsepower. I get 5.6L per 100KM highway towing a trailer with my motorcycle on it. She is approaching 293 K now and I love it. This is my 3rd VW Diesel and my 50th VW. My buddy in Saskatoon has the greasecar conversion and has burned 400L of vege oil already and he loves his Jetta.
  29. Chad Remmel from Canada writes: I did not mention that I got all my upgrade parts form the USA as the prices here in Canada are a rip off. I paid 50% to 68% less for each part I bought.
    The untold story is that Canadians are being taken to the cleaner for automotive parts that are all made in Taiwan or mainland China.
    THe KYB Struts I bougght are actually made in Japan.
    Example: I was quoted by a major parts chain 185.00 for front stuts and 165.00 for the rear struts. I bought them shipped to a parcel service near the MB border for $65.00 for the front and $60.00 for the rears each. Sure it took 2 hours to get them but I saved over 200.00 per hour getting them!
    Canadian prices make upkeep on a car an expensive venture.

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