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Clement's Insite attack leaves WHO red-faced

ANDRÉ PICARD

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 1:34 AM EST 06/08/08

Comments at AIDS conference in Mexico City come as World Health Organization strongly endorses safe injection sites like Vancouver's ...Read the full article

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  1. Jabber Wocky from Canada writes: Man, oh man... Okay, I'm not a Lib, nor a Con, so don't take this as a partisan shot; but this government doesn't know how to handle itself on the international stage worth a crap.
  2. Joe Black from Canada writes: Hooray for our neocon stooges. Still making Shrub's Republicans look progressive and diplomatic on the world stage I see.

    We support needle exchanges, don't let us catch you using them though!

    Give me a break. Enough of this nanny state knows best mentality when it comes to citizen's bodies.
  3. Jack Ryan from SaskatoonVictoria, Canada writes: Interesting - 100% of heroin addicts support INSIGHT and 100% of former addicts think it should be shut down immeadiatly. INSIGHT officials and their advocates admit they can't name even one individual who entered a drug treatment centre after being 'counselled by INSIGHT. By allowing such a facility to continue to exist, we are facilitating and legitimizing heroin addiction.
  4. Jeff S from Canada writes: Yeah, imagine a politician speaking their mind and not being two faced by telling the UN everything is roses.

    Illegal drugs are illegal drugs. Close this Insite crap and starts arresting people who break the law.
  5. Runnin Rebel from Canada writes:
    Another embarrassing moment on the world stage compliments of your new gov't.
  6. john wardle from Canada writes: Well why doesn't Clement do what the PM does, simply apologize for being Canadian.
  7. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Zando Lee?

    What is the science?

    Insite's own documents claim to save, '...on average, one life per year'.

    When you claim this is 'neocon' ideology I would counter that your wanting a facility open which approves of IV drug use to be as equally ideologically based.

    The science does NOT support Insite's main reason for being open.

    As for anyone claiming that who are the CPC to oppose the World Health Organization I would have you remember that the WHO has Canada ranked 32nd in the world for health care.

    So...

    It would appear Canada does many, many things in opposition to the WHO.

    As is evidenced by our lacklustre health care system.
  8. Joe Black from Canada writes: Jack Ryan from SaskatoonVictoria, Canada writes: 'Interesting - 100% of heroin addicts support INSIGHT and 100% of former addicts think it should be shut down immeadiatly.'

    Ok doke. And where, pray tell did you get that amazing scientific figure from?
  9. a brown from OutWest, Canada writes: Jack Ryan from SaskatoonVictoria, Canada writes: Interesting - 100% of heroin addicts support INSIGHT and 100% of former addicts think it should be shut down immeadiatly...Man oh man these guys will just pull crapola outta their butts and cite it as fact. ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, I say, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!! As Obama said today, regarding Conservatives: 'They actually take pride in being stupid.'
  10. siren call from Canada writes: WHO officials alone were embarrassed and flummoxed because, at press time, Con officials were still trying to get Clement to understand the contradictory nature of his position.

    Perhaps he left his briefs for this conference -- elsewhere.
  11. West Coast Not West from Canada writes: Just say no to AIDS.

    - Steve
  12. Shane Jordan from Winnipeg, Canada writes: Right.... Giving junkies a clean safe place to shoot up encourages drug use, but giving junkies a clean safe needle to shoot up with doesn't.

    Does Clement even realize how stupid he sounds?
  13. Jason Young from Canada writes: another shining example of the cons incompetence this time on a world stage Canada's new [embarrassment of a ]Government
  14. Alex MacLean from Toronto, Canada writes: It is abysmal that representatives of this government continue to favour their own partisan ideology and that they privilege it above all other viewpoints and considerations: the needs of addicts, the support of the police and the neighbourhood, most residents of the city of Vancouver, research science, proponents of public health, most addiction doctors, students of medicine and the World Health Organization...to name a few.

    The arrogance of this government to think that its own version of 'political correctness' should take precedence over all of that is truly astounding.
  15. al goguen from Victoria, Canada writes: My only experience with drug addicts is that I feed them when they come to the Soup Kitchen. Sometimes they don`t show up for days. When they show up, I feel that they would like me to talk to them, to hug them, to help their big problems, but I am only a retired high school teacher, and I am not a professional medical expert. I am convinced that if we could build detox centers outside of our cities, on a farm with animals, managed y professional medical experts , in no time we would see a change in our drug addicts. At the moment the needle exchange give them the clean needles but then they send them back on the street, to panhandle, steal, break-in, attack old people, in order to get enough money to buy their street drugs, whatever that is. Then find a place where they can shoot up. I have seen them in parks, behind our buildings, alleys, using drugs. They exchange needles right there. One needle might have more powerful stuff, so they pass it along. Is this avoiding AIDS. Then they leave the needles on the ground -..How can the Needle Exchange say that they have 104% needles returned. They are lying. The needles are left on the streets. Sometimes I see someones with plastic gloves picking these needles. Where do they put them? In detox centers addicts are given the proper dose of drugs and slowly are reduced. In the meantime they work on a farm, and no human beings can resist the love of animals. Little pigmie goats, pot belly pigs, rabbits even donkeys. I saw a documentary of a detox center in NY State, and they showed a young black heroin addict - came from a broken home- when he met this donkey, he said it was love at first side. He related to the stuborness of the donkey to his refusal to stop his addiction. He needed help. Now with his arms around the donkey, he would tell him, you don't want to move? ok, I'll wait, I still love you. You remind me of myself. Come on slowly. Take a first step. Finally the donkey went forward. The boy was crying.
  16. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    a brown from OutWest?

    The 100% this way, that way, was from a recent article here in the Globe.
    Try and keep up.
  17. Joe Black from Canada writes: aniphylactic shock troops from Victoria, Canada writes: 'Just say NO to crackheads and the mush-headed lefty idealogues who try to force shooting galleries on our neighbourhoods.

    The only needle crackheads should get is a big purple one like they give rabid dogs and lame horses.'

    Nobodies forcing that stuff on you. Last time I checked the City of Vancouver (and the Vancouver Police for that matter) SUPPORT insight.
  18. Blaque Jacque Shallaque from Canada writes: Good for Mr. Clement! Last time I checked, that corrupt bunch of third world incompetents and socialists who run the UN and its various parasite organizations don't run Canada. For now....
  19. Ricky for a Centrist Canada from Canada writes:
    Boy Con hack losers sure hate people who aren't like them.

    They'd rather see them die or be killed off than have to coexist with them.

    Brown people, gay people, poor people, the addicted, the afflicted - all targets of Stephen Harper's neocon reformatives.

    What an international embarrassment.
  20. Shane Jordan from Winnipeg, Canada writes: aniphylactic - So would you say Clement is totally wrong to support needle exchange programs then?

    I'll assume you'll be voting against the Conservatives next time around since they have so strongly supported helping junkies get their fix by supplying them with needles.
  21. Sarah Fitzgerald from Canada writes: 'Clearly, within the Downtown Eastside you need two or three sites. And clearly, those sites need to support inhalation as well as injection,' Townsend said. 'Regardless of whether they are smoking their drugs or injecting them, getting addicts off the street is not only good for the addict, but provides a real benefit to the community as well, yeah?' Logical conclusion: State supplied Heroin, Cocaine and Meth. for full containment. Poor Tony just can't handle progress.... All hail the Scientific Socialist Revolution !
  22. Joe Black from Canada writes: Actually I don't see anything socialist about the state not having a say in what citizens put in their own bodies. Its far more libertarian if you think abou it. Get the nanny state off the people's backs and spend some money on fighting violent crime for a change.
  23. John Stanton from winnipeg, Canada writes: WHO better show me the economic pros/cons in a clearer picture because I don't want to pay for people who choose their destructive life style. I'm not Jesus. Why must I pay for their sins. It's about time drug users take responsibility for their choices.
  24. The Bubble from Canada writes: Flummoxed is a great word. Clement crapped all over the good town of Perth as his last act with the Mike Harris gang. For those of you who are about to say how this left wing rag is at Harper again, think about how stupid this is. This is so obviously an overwhelming glimpse into how closed the minds are of this group of conservatives. It's a sure sign of conservatism, they believe they need to stick to their guns and their ideologies, like Mike Harris 'told them what I was going to do and then I did what I said I would do... or something like that. Free Trade, SPP, Common Sense Revolution, they are inflexible in their opinions, they are afraid.
  25. Aslan On the Island from VanIsle, Canada writes: This is a tough issue to bring to any conclusion because there seems to be evidence both in favour of keeping INSIGHT operating and evidence to close it down. Who can we trust to provide the real facts.
    There should be no INSIGHT because we should be funding mechanisms/facilities that provide three things to addicted and marginalized individuals (ie real people) on the East side. Drug rehabilitation, employment and housing. But guess what...there is not sufficient funding to do the job properly.
    So ask yourself whether if it were your 17 year old son or daughter shooting up in a filthy, disgusting alley, wouldn't you like to have a facility that keeps them out of harms way until we get round to addressing the key issues with adequate funding?
    Where has compassion gone?
  26. Josh Gould from Canada writes: Let's see, we have 'Jack Ryan', peddling complete nonsense pulled from the air - it's InSITE not InSIGHT - along with the requisite non sequitur trolling of Michael Sharp of Victoria. For good measure, there's 'aniphylactic shock troops' (curiously, also of Victoria), advocating some sort of euthanasia for 'crackheads'. (This is a rather generous interpretation since it's sounds more like a statement in favour of summary execution.)

    Would it be too much to ask for the Globe to moderate these forums to eliminate such garbage?

    In any case, Clement's latest antics are nothing short of embarrassing. A supervised injection site fulfills the exact same purposes as a needle exchange, with the added benefit of nursing care in the case of overdose - that, in fact, is the main difference. If a needle exchange is a-okay, then so is Insite. That, at least, is the logical conclusion, but expecting such consistency and sound reasoning from a rapacious (and incompetent) ideologue like Clement is probably too much.
  27. Sarah Fitzgerald from Canada writes: That's just the point. The State becomes the supplier thus removing the criminal element...
  28. E Nuke from Canada writes: George W. Harper - to hell what the factinista says, this is what WE believe.
  29. mountainman in Coq from COQUITLAM, Canada writes: Bring the government down already so we can get rid of these in-human, backward thinking racist neocons.

    They probably think they'll win. That's how dumb they are. What a bunch of pricks.

    Oh yes, and if you live in rural Canada, AND have never been to an urban Canadian centre (and there's many of you here), then seriously, piss off. You couldn't buy a clue to understand the problems and divisions this government has caused or the issues that cities face.

  30. Aslan On the Island from VanIsle, Canada writes: John Stanton I would guess that there are plenty of people who live very unhealthy (but legal) lifestyles that result in huge costs to our healthcare system. What would you propose for them?
  31. John Stanton from Vancouver, Canada writes: Do a majority of Vancouverites support Insite? If so, then it should be allowed to operate.

    Just because a bunch of Albertans temporarily hold power in Ottawa doesn't mean that the community standards of Vancouver should be overridden.
  32. Sarah Fitzgerald from Canada writes: And in exchange the State can utilize these peculiar folks, these addicts, as extreme workers and shock troops - remember heroin dulls pain, makes one feel heroic, and the stimulants well I bet those boys could work round the clock..
  33. RRU Student MEEC Program from Mission, Canada writes: John Stanton from Winnipeg, and the rest of you who want to close Insight...the best reasons for Insight are self-interest ones! It saves huge money to reduce the harm of IV drug addiction, but it is only one pillar. If you care about saving us all money, support Insight. If you care about saving us money AND helping desperate addicts, then support Insight AND a significant expansion of rehab and detox centers.
  34. Peter Cromerovich from Erehwon, Canada writes: Health, science and the safety of Canadians will always take second place to ideology with the religious right-wing. Clement and his amateur theocratic buddies can always be counted on to make Canada an international laughing stock. What do you expect from people who live in la-la land believing the world started a few thousand years ago and want it to end soon..
  35. Sarah Fitzgerald from Canada writes: One of the earliest uses of methamphetamine was during World War II when the German military dispensed it under the trade name Pervitin.[4] It was widely distributed across rank and division, from elite forces to tank crews and aircraft personnel. Chocolates dosed with methamphetamine were known as Fliegerschokolade ('flyer's chocolate') when given to pilots, or Panzerschokolade ('tanker's chocolate') when given to tank crews. From 1942 until his death in 1945, Adolf Hitler was given frequent intravenous injections of methamphetamine by his personal physician...
  36. mountainman in Coq from COQUITLAM, Canada writes: Sarah Fitzgerald is NOT smart.
  37. Barkley Pollock from Ottawa, Canada writes: WHO:where are you from?
    Clement:Canada
    WHO: You have a harm reduction program
    Clement: Yes
    WHO:We commend you
    Clement:We're against it
    WHO:?!

    I'm not surprised the WHO doesn't understand Canadian politics or our domestic policy but then who does? If only some countries were to put our domestic policies under a microscope maybe then we would be forced to make some positive changes in Canada.
  38. Joe Black from Canada writes: What does Hitler being a junkie have to do with anything? Incidentally, Goering was the big addict in that outfit if I remember my history books.
  39. mountainman in Coq from COQUITLAM, Canada writes: And now after the evidence is in, meth kills people you know, Sarah Fitzgerald. Are you suggesting that we promote the use of meth to increase work productivity?

    Thanks for the nazi history lesson. How is it relevant to this?
  40. Aslan On the Island from VanIsle, Canada writes: Sarah knows how to Google, but should take out the references, it's a dead giveaway.
  41. Nathan Cool from Vancouver, Canada writes: This guy is an international embarrassment and makes our entire nation look stupid.

    ELECTION PLEASE!
  42. JohnnyB Rotten from Hamilton, Canada writes: Well not only does Clement sound embarrassing, the picture shown was less than flattering as well. Unfortunately, for our neoCon government, if the answer is more than 2 letters long and the solution takes more than 30 seconds to answer, they get all flustered. Perhaps taking a more holistic approach to support addiction reduction strategies instead of hacking at the one pillar that is still standing while chanting cheap rhetoric would be helpful... any you know what, it make get the votes you need.... however, the neoCon ego is just too fragile to admit to need help to solve a problem... hence advocating euthenasia ....
    hmmm.... I guess my grandfather fought for the neoCon's right to spout off as well.... maybe they (neoCons) should understand the lesson before they tromp so hard on those that disagree.
  43. The Bubble from Canada writes: Heroin is a scary scary thing. I grew up with a fellow through the seventies and eighties, we played basketball together in high school. I heard he was in the general hospital in Ottawa for pneumonia in December 1987. When we went in, we had to wear masks, gloves and smocks which my wife thought funny in 1987 for pneumonia, she was a nurse. He had aids. I saw him early December that year and he did die on Christmas day. I heard the story while ice fishing in Belleville. I knew he did some dope but the needle thing was very foreign to me. He was simply a guy we grew up with, he was adopted and him and my brother used to fight over a girl in high school. He was actually pretty funny and during the Eastern Ontario finals in Cornwall one year he ran the poker tables. He was a fine bball player just did a little too much dope. People who tell you these people are criminals are simply out of touch and trying to sway public opinion because the truth is very overwhelming.
  44. Sarah Fitzgerald from Canada writes: Look this is what you folks want. At the very least decriminalization and inhalation rooms. Many of you want zero controls over any drug. Ok. Let's look for historical examples and see how they turned out.
  45. D Chiu from Victoria, Canada writes: I am not against or for Insite. But when Clements speaks, I would be more careful. I remember how he looked so lack of confidence when the SARS crisis happened Toronto when he was minister of Health in Ontario.
  46. Closely Watching from Canada writes: Give Clement a day or two for Harper to figure out how to Dupe the WHO...Harper's constantly trying to dupe someone. It's Canadians that were duped into voting for the big duper. We won't be duped twice.
  47. Daniel Cunningham from Victoria, writes: Wow - yet again the ConBorgies embarrass us on the international stage. Qu'elle suprise. Not! They are a bunch of bible-toting fundamentalist hypocrites who should really learn to just shut the h$ll up when talking in front of news media, government officials from other countries, the general public - pretty much everybody. What a disgusting display - yet again.
  48. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: It's 'anAphylactic' for crying out loud.
  49. Dear Johnson from SF, United States writes: Michael Sharpe writes: ' ... Insite's own documents claim to save, '...on average, one life per year'.'. Where did you get this? Here's what their site really says:

    'Of the 500 overdoses that occurred at the site over a two-year period, none resulted in a fatality. If these overdoses happened on the street, many of these people may have died.'
  50. A Happier Place from Canada writes: Mr. Clement is an international embarrassment. If he does not have the intelligence to understand his contradictory, irrational position on this issue, he needs to find a new job and we need to find a new Minister.
  51. John Stanton from winnipeg, Canada writes: Aslan On the Island from VanIsle, Canada writes: John Stanton I would guess that there are plenty of people who live very unhealthy (but legal) lifestyles that result in huge costs to our healthcare system. What would you propose for them? Who would that be? Smokers? Obese? According to a dutch study listed on PLOS these people actually cost the health system less then healthy thin people. This means they choose their habit and are responsible for the outcome. They pay their own way. These dope heads don't. They go down the path of despair, and I respect their right to choose that path, and we are dragged down the path whether we like it or not. All I'm proposing is WHO give a cost/benefit analysis before any commitments are made.
  52. jamie yavis from Canada writes:
    Don't worry, Clements and the Cons have all the answers in their blue book 'The World According to Harpo' it seems the rest of the whole world is out of step and it is up to them to lead us into the light.
  53. mountainman in Coq from COQUITLAM, Canada writes: John Stanton. Sometimes hearts and minds take precedence over cost\benefits and analysis. Capitalism doesn't apply to every situation.

    I would prefer our government to spend more on prevention and protect the lives of our most vulnerable. Some people aren't capabable of making rational decisions because of mental illness and the lack of care they receive (their fault or not).

    I don't want to sound like a bleeding heart because I think the science and stats prove that the benefits out weigh the costs of Insite. But these people are desperate and they have no hope.
  54. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    People diss Clement's position when in fact it's the reporting that's incoherent.

    The data from Insute show NO meaningful harm reduction. People support Insite because:

    a) They really want to help these people

    b) They truly believe Insite must help, regardless of the data to the contrary.

    Sad facts:

    Based on the coroner data from before and after Insite, perhaps one death is averted per year (at 3.5 million bucks, it's nowhere near being cost-effective)

    Less than 10% of addicts get all their injections at Insite; the rest go there sometimes, getting the rest the old-fashioned dirty way.

    Although 'enrolment' in rehab is up a bit, the success rate remains awful.

    People need full-fledged, dedicated inpatient rehab spots.

    Insite is to addiction what current 'climate change' plans is to world safety--a well-intended but ultimately distracting and wasteful use of resources.
  55. mountainman in Coq from COQUITLAM, Canada writes: How about some citations dr. spicydoc?
  56. John Stanton from Vancouver, Canada writes: John Stanton (are we related somehow???) from Winnipeg said 'I don't want to pay for people who choose their destructive life style. I'm not Jesus. Why must I pay for their sins. It's about time drug users take responsibility for their choices'

    I could also say I don't really want to pay for the Confederation Bridge to PEI (why should I pay for them to get home to their spuds faster?).

    Or for the parts of the Trans-Canada Highway on the far side of the Rockies (why is it my problem they don't live in God's Country?).

    Or for treating broken legs of skiers who ski more recklessly than me (why didn't they just stick to the green runs, like me?).

    But for the privilege of living in Canada and being part of the greater Canadian community, I'd say it's not unreasonable that we should help out our fellow citizens and citizens-to-be and residents by paying a few taxes here and there.
  57. Nickstar One from Canada writes: '....infringe on their right to life, liberty and security of the person....'

    The justice who stated this simply doesn't realize that this no longer is the case since CANada is rapidly devolving into a third rate dictatorship called BANada. Supporting the social engineers at the WHO is simply accelerating this devolution process. High time to tell the WHO to 'beat it' and cut moral and monetary support to a trickle.
  58. marcus savage from victoria, Canada writes: Please o please give us a chance to vote these douche bags out of office. How can they be so out of touch about so many things? They are a discredit to Canada's worldly values. Are they so simple as to think that everything is about us and them? You want an example of what harm reduction does? Look to Portland for a clue - they've tackled homelessness (to an extent) and as such have reduced crime/addictionrates...etc...

    and I had to laugh at the tool box who spewed about the 100% of former addicts - Hey Jack, here's a hint put your hands on your hips and push as hard as you can...dislodge your misplaced head, breathe some fresh air, and see the light of day.
  59. drunk wookie from TO, Canada writes: What a joke of a government!!! Nizzles please!!!....
  60. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Dear Johnson from SF, United States writes: Michael Sharpe writes: ' ... Insite's own documents claim to save, '...on average, one life per year'.'. Where did you get this? Here's what their site really says:

    'Of the 500 overdoses that occurred at the site over a two-year period, none resulted in a fatality. If these overdoses happened on the street, many of these people may have died.'
    -----------------------------------------

    Actually Dear Johnson those numbers came from another article and thread right here on the Globe and Mail a few days ago. Michael is correct.

    cheers
  61. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    mountainman wants the 'citations'. Glad you asked. Here's the Health Canada report.

    Spend a few hours reading it, then get back to us:

    http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/pubs/_sites-lieux/insite/index-eng.php
  62. David Kanaschwiiz from Switzerland writes:
    A few years ago I had the opportunity to work with the WHO in Geneva. A truly cautious, bureaucratic and political place one thing became clear: the science is usually pretty clear and uncontestable before they'll stick their necks out and recommend something.
    Mr. Clement's objections seem... Bushian (when one clings to a position despite scientific and international consensus to the contrary).

    imagine thousands of civil servants, many from less democratic places than Canada, far removed from the electorates that employ them.
  63. John Stanton from winnipeg, Canada writes: How'D you get on my login? You (John Stanton, from Vancouver, Canada) wrote I could also say I don't really want to pay for the Confederation Bridge to PEI (why should I pay for them to get home to their spuds faster?).

    Or for the parts of the Trans-Canada Highway on the far side of the Rockies (why is it my problem they don't live in God's Country?).

    Or for treating broken legs of skiers who ski more recklessly than me (why didn't they just stick to the green runs, like me?).
    These are all positive things, they enrich society. I, too, have zero problem paying for any of these. But jabbing heroin is a selfish choice. I see no benefit in the long term to anyone. It is only negative and when we are pulled in w/c we are, I'd prefer the greater society to get the most benefit for the least cost, whatever that may be.
  64. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    Swiss David K--

    Read the Health Canada report I just linked.

    The WHO is posing with platitudes; Clement's position is based on facts.

    Sorry to ruin your comment with reality.
  65. Nickstar One from Canada writes: '....embarrass us on the international stage...should really learn to just shut the h$ll up when talking in front of news media, government officials from other countries, the general public - pretty much everybody.....'
    This was a Jeanny Cretin specialty for 13 long, embarrassing years.
    A classic Cretinism, 'a proof is a proof... blah blah proof...blah blah proven' being the most famous total and complete embarrassment of very many.
  66. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    Here it is again---

    All you guys bashing Clement for his position---read the science and pray tell where anything Clement claims is untrue.

    Sucks when the science doesn't support what you hoped for, doesn't it?

    http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/pubs/_sites-lieux/insite/index-eng.php
  67. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    The WHO is gobsmacked that Clement would get up and say what the Health Canada report found--

    Insite isn't what its advocates wish it was.

    Health ministers are supposed to toe the WHO line---oops...Clement stood up and told the truth.

    Australia has a pilot injection site under study as well---don't expect any good news out of Oz either. These places simply don't help the way we wish they would.
  68. mountainman in Coq from COQUITLAM, Canada writes: Thanks for a one-sided Con government report. Back to you genius.

    Amazing what propoganda makes sheep like spicydoc believe.

    The earth is flat you know. So says Stephen Harper and Environment Canada.
  69. John Stanton from Vancouver, Canada writes: 'These are all positive things, they enrich society. I, too, have zero problem paying for any of these. But jabbing heroin is a selfish choice. I see no benefit in the long term to anyone. It is only negative and when we are pulled in w/c we are,
    *I'd prefer the greater society to get the most benefit for the least cost, whatever that may be.*'

    Isn't that the essence of harm reduction? Prevent addicts from dying in the streets; bring them into daily contact with the health care system; and persuade some to enter rehab? It seems to me like the best approach to the unfortunate fact of addiction.
  70. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    Mountainman--

    Read the authors of the Health Canada report--

    It's written by the guys who run the place!!

    You had little credibility; now you have none.
  71. Nickstar One from Canada writes: '....Please o please give us a chance to vote these douche bags out of office....'

    You will get your wish for a vote very soon. However you have a huge problem with the 'out of office' bit.
    A handpicked, Cretin protege fop like Dion hasn't got 'a hope in Hades' unless he can somehow learn to make himself understood in the official language of the huge majority. A debilitating, defeat ensuring, trait he obviously learned at the foot of his embarrassing mentor.
  72. pete peters from Pincher Creek, Independent state of Alberta, Canada writes: Love this: “We need to stop arguing about the merits of harm reduction and just do it,” Dr. Kamarulzaman told the conference.

    Setting aside the fact the good doctor's deep insights are rejected by her own country, Kuala Lumpur, doesn't this just remind you of the AGW sheeple? 'No need for more study, let's get on with doing what I want'.

    Once again, the Globe and Mail is picking sides in a political dispute. 'Red-faced WHO officials'? Gimme a break, health bureaucrats don't fart without consulting head office.
  73. John Stanton from winnipeg, Canada writes: I guess thsi is where we are different Johnny 2. You would try to change their destructive choices. Take resources away from positive things, a building of a school, art, music etc. to finance a positive thing w/c is only positive b/c these individuals have made and continue to make bad choices. Why should you care if they don't? Pleasure philosophizing with u. Bon Nuit.
  74. Troubled Youth from Everywhere, Canada writes: The only answer is legalization. The Canadian government needs to get with the times and become a drug facilitator for the victim class. Too many are straying from tobacco and alcohol addiction. The world is out of balance. Suicide is painless people let's not hesitate. You know ya want it.
  75. pete peters from Pincher Creek, Independent state of Alberta, Canada writes: My goodness. So many Harper-haters concerned about our 'image' on the international stage. All of you really must have some deep-seated psychological dysfunction that makes you hyper-sensitive about what others think of you.

    Personally, I don't give a rat's a$$ what some WHO health bureaucrats - or even the Globe's reporter in Mexico - think about Canadian policy.

    The reality is there is no scientific evidence that proves government-endorsed shooting galleries do more good than harm. What's more they destroy the character of the neighborhoods where they're located. Don't agree? Try living next to one for a month.

    This is lefty victim-coddling run amock. Shut them down!
  76. Cheap Skate from Vancouver, Canada writes: spicydoc, you really need to read the report. There are so many mistakes in your comments about the report. 63% of the people in Vancouver support Insite. 50% of Conservative supporters. 1.08 deaths per year prevented. Over 4,000 referrals to addiction counseling, 2 referrals per week to methadone services. The Chinese business association private security firm reported reduction in car break ins and sex trade activity. All associated with drug use. And this after only 10 minutes reading.
  77. Cheap Skate from Vancouver, Canada writes: spicdoc, this is the list of the expert advisory committee that wrote the report. Who on this list is a member of Insite? You should look at who the report was written for. Do you think this would be release by open minded Tony Clement if it did not say exactly what he wanted?

    Chair - Alan Ogborne, Ph.D. - Private practice and former Senior Scientist with Centre for Addiction and Mental Health (CAMH),

    Bryce Larke, M.D., D.Cl.Sc. - Medical Health Officer , Yukon Territorial Government,

    Darryl Plecas, Ed. D. - Professor, RCMP Chair in Crime Reduction, Director, ICURS - UCFV Research Lab, University College of the Fraser Valley.

    Irvin Waller, Ph.D. - Professor of Criminology and Director, Institute for the Prevention of Crime, University of Ottawa.

    Jürgen Rehm, Ph.D. - Addiction Specialist and Senior Scientist at Centre for Addiction and Mental with cross appointment at the University of Toronto (Professor and Chair Addiction Policy) and the World Health Organization.
    The Office of the Drug Strategy Secretariat and Strategic Policy (ODSSSP) and the Office of the Chief Scientist, Health Canada, provided secretariat support to the EAC.
  78. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    Myth--SIS reduce area crime.

    Fact--

    ' A number of European facilities reported increases in drug dealing around the facility, with several of these also reporting aggressive incidents outside the premises, increases in petty crime and resentment from local residents (Poschadel et al, 2002; Kimber et al., 2005)'.
  79. Cheap Skate from Vancouver, Canada writes: Pete Peters, if you think this doesn't work, then what would you do that is different? Lock them up? Cost is far higher and all it does is make people more desperate to obtain their drugs. By the way, when did they have an Insite facility in Pincher Creek Alberta?
  80. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    Cheap Skate--

    I'm guessing you don't have much experience reading scientific literature.

    The EAC provides the summation.

    The data (published and unpublished) was provided directly from Insite.
  81. pete peters from Pincher Creek, Independent state of Alberta, Canada writes: Mad-dog attacks on the Harper government by those of you supporting legalization and the spread of taxpayer-supported shooting galleries, are going to come back and bite you.

    Policies like these are utterly rejected by the vast majority of Canadians who instinctively know insanity when they see it. There's no doubt at all the Conservatives have thoroughly polled and vetted their rejection of this nonsense.

    Please do keep blithering until the next election. That Harper majority is in the bag!
  82. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    Cheap Skate--

    Insite is a waste of time and money.

    If you review the data from Australia, they report that there was indeed a period when less bad things happened. This was when there was less drug available (you guess why).

    There was NO correlation between the SIS activity and the time when overdoses and crime dropped. Less heroin on the streets meant less crime and deaths. The SIS made no difference.

    Given this truism, what would you recommend??....
  83. Oakville Curmudgeon from Canada writes: The number of IV drug abusers with HIV/AIDS amounts to less the 0.000375 percent of the population. Statistically insignificant.

    Let's move on and action things we can actually improve and feel good about. Like, for instance, improving the lives of First Nations children. Maybe some clean water to drink, and some regular meals, and a decent education? I'm sure those children would appreciate the helping hand.
  84. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    Given that the only verifiable factor that reduces overdoses and crime is less actual heroin on the street, the solution is obvious--reduce the amount of heroin on the street!!

    How??

    How about making trafficking in narcotics so expensive from a penal perspective that people don't want to risk it.

    Chase the major traffickers, catch them, and punish them severely.

    In the meantime, basically leave the addicts alone, but offer them proper rehab.

    Over time, once the source dries up, petty crime, overdoses, and drug deaths will fall off.

    Heroin should be treated like kiddy porn--nail the ba$tards who traffic in the stuff. However, the heroin addicts should indeed be helped (OFF the stuff), whereas kp consumers should continue to be nailed.

    Insite implicitly condones the possession and therefore the provision of heroin--this is completely idiotic.
  85. Ryan MacLellan from Fredericton, Canada writes: I'm not sure who to begin with here... Those of you who say that the Insite program is not cost effective because it only saves, on average, one life per year are missing the point. These safe injection sites are instituted to prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS by promoting the use of clean needles, etc. This does not make drug use legal. Canada is simply acknowledging that people with addictions are human beings, and that they deserve the best possible treatment that we can provide for them. These sights have proven to be effective in reducing the spread of HIV/AIDS and other harmful diseases/viruses as well. So what are we really debating here? The Supreme Court has deemed these sights to be necessary and legal under our Charter. The Conservatives, appealing largely to their demographs and electorates (I dislike marketing and electioneering terms but they apply), are the ones challenging the law, not the people who are taking use of these facilities. Bottom line, many Canadians -including Clement and many Conservatives- want these people in jail. You gripe about the billion we're spending on these programs now, wait until you see the bill for: hiring more police and beaurocrats, court dates, processing, shiny new prison facilities (ironically equipped with safe injection sites), as well as the additional costs in very EXPENSIVE medical treatments for those who might not have otherwise been infected with a harmful virus/disease had Insite not been deemed: 'cost inefficient'. Thankyou for your time and I look foward to your responses.
  86. Joe V from Canada writes: The studies on safe injection sites are flawed. They look only from the prospective of drug users, and thus a small benefit to users outweighs a larger harm caused to the rest of society through the cost of the sites, the lost productivity of the addicts, and the crime that is committed to finance the drug addictions.

    Let us look at successful drug policies from other nations, from the perspective of net benefit to society. Singapore has one of the lowest rates of drug use in the world. Guess why?

    It's time to implement forced withdrawal for addicts, and execution for dealers. I guarantee it will clean up the drug problem quickly, and result in a net benefit to society, which is the main goal, isn't it?
  87. mountainman in Coq from COQUITLAM, Canada writes: The report was written by Health Canada staff based on the observations and opinions of the chosen contributors. There is one single Insite contributor. This is a report contributed to by people chosen by Tony's department to review Insite, most of whom don't live in Vancouver. They did not write the report. It is written by bureaucrats to suit the needs of the current government agenda and then approved by the minister before release. And that is objectivity to you dr. spicydoc? I didn't review the entire report yet. But I will. The issue of Insite was never important to me until I moved here years ago and started seeing daily, what these people endure and the drug dangers they face. I have become a supporter and won't tolerate ignorance of the issue. You're totally entitiled to have your views, but don't talk to me about cred. But you, are apparantly, credible? If you want a real understanding of what Insite is about and how it benefits addicts on the east side, then come and take a look. Spending a few minutes doing web 'research' on the topic will give you a totally distanced, unattached and far too high level view. It might be a good starting point, but it can never depict the reality that these people face day to day. So come down from your pedestal and visit the east side. Start looking at factors other than reports that are prepared for Tony Demented (I mean Clemant of course.) All you've cited is one government report. Do you think this supercedes the reports by people that work at Insite, the addicts, the supporters in the area and the majority of Vancouverites?? Well, yes, you probably do. How about adding your personal experiences with this issue and tell us what you have seen and witnessed? How about a location. Where you are? I have my suspicions but would love to hear the truth. Come on doc, what city are you in? May not be good or bad, just a reference point.
  88. Roop Misir from Toronto, Canada writes: What would make citizens observe the Law? Reword and make it relevant?
  89. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    Ryan Mac--

    You say that SIS have been proven to reduce nasty infections. Really?? Where did you get that information (it doesn't exist).

    Data from Insite--

    'INSITE service

    The rate of positive HIV testing in Vancouver reached a peak in 1992, and declined until 2003 (the last year for which data are available) while the rate in the rest of BC remained fairly constant. Rates for HCV infection declined substantially from a peak in 1996 until 2004--ref28.

    There is no direct evidence that the INSITE service impacted rates of blood-born diseases or injection related infections in the target population.'

    Sorry, Ryan, you wish that SIS helped--they don't....
  90. mountainman in Coq from COQUITLAM, Canada writes: pete peters from Pincher Creek, Independent state of Alberta, Canada...

    Have you ever been out of Alberta? There's a country all around you with problems. Don't be such a Stelmak sheep....what is wrong with you people? Had Ralph K been putting something in the water system to make all the citizens into clones? Probably.

    Alberta has NO credibility. So stick to what you know: oil, guns and hate crimes.
  91. Don Adams, The Conservative Centrist from Canada writes: Spicy, no matter what facts you bring out, you can't get an unrealistic idealist lefty to even compromise, let alone change. They're all a bunch of starry eyed moonbats, and, quite frankly, not even worth talking to.

    Thanks for the link. It'll allow THINKING Liberal types and Cons to actually THINK about the subject, then come to their own conclusions.
    Dippers, of course, probably won't even read it :-)
  92. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    mountainman--

    At least you are reading the data--good idea.

    You then invoke me to visit the area and experience it. Guess you aren't familiar with the term 'anecdotal bias'.

    This occers when people ignore the results of studies involving thousands because they personally experienced something 'first hand' which contradicts the data.

    Kinda like the guy who believes smoking is safe because his Dad smoked his whole life and never got sick.

    Science is science, mountainman, and it hurts when it disagrees with what your heart wants to believe.
  93. Kat Wilson from Canada writes: I'm only in favour of 'harm reduction' if the other promised pillars are in place: long term rehab, a firm justice system that locks up dealers and curbs the trade, drug courts that give addicts a choice of jail or mandatory long term rehab with no shooting up allowed, and social housing. The fact that Vancouver only commits to one of these (clean needles and a place to shoot up) means addicts are not supported to quit nor are they encouraged to. The Downtown Eastside is worse than ever, with crack addiction running rampant and nothing is being done about it. This harm reduction facility may be preventing a few people from contracting HIV and HEP-C temporarily, but let's face it, when you're a crack addict you don't have any self-respect or self-esteem and you don't care about your well being anymore. Sure, you might use the safe needle site, but if you need or want to, you'll also share needles at a party or in the back alley, because you just don't care. Harm reduction is the equivalent of a applying a bandaid to an open artery. It represents the least cost of all the solutions that could help one of the worst hit drug areas in North America. That's why it's funded, not because government gives a sh*t.
  94. mountainman in Coq from COQUITLAM, Canada writes: