Skip navigation

 Login or Register | Member Centre

Frozen Northwest Passage expected to open up

TU THANH HA

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 10:23 AM EST 06/08/08

For only second time in recorded history, storied Arctic channel likely to be ice-free 'in the next few weeks' ...Read the full article

This conversation is closed

  1. Alan Burke from ClimateChange.dynalias.com, Canada writes: Have a look at the detail behind this story by visiting the NSIDC Artic sea ice page, contasining regularly updated information at:

    http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

    That's one of many links to real data which I provide on my website in the 'Science' section under 'Sea Level & Ice'.

    Another compelling site is 'The Cryosphere Today' which can show you side by side comparison of the ice conditions for two chosen dates or create a movie of ice coverage.

    http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/
  2. JD Wood from Toronto, Canada writes: When will Stephen Harper admit that he was WRONG on the issue of climate change, and take steps to free this nation of its oil addiction?
  3. Don Adams, The Conservative Centrist from Canada writes: The climate is changing. No big deal, as long as we ADAPT. Those of you who can't adapt to changing circumstances.... well, survival of the fittest :-)
  4. Troubled Youth from Everywhere, Canada writes: Don Adams, one can hardly wait.
  5. Bill M from Canada writes: JD Wood from Toronto, Canada writes: When will Stephen Harper admit that he was WRONG on the issue of climate change, and take steps to free this nation of its oil addiction?

    Back in the 70's, we were told we were going to freeze to death in the impending ice age, unless we stopped our evil ways. So humans stopped spewing certain chemicals into the air. Why not start emitting those chemicals again so we can cool the planet down to the ideal temperature that Gore and Suzuki and JD Wood want. After all, it's up to us to decide what the planet temperature should be. Or plan B, JD, vacate Canada completely. The 2% reduction in total global GHG's will save the planet. No need for tax grabs and wealth transfers, just have 33 million Canadians move to China. They'll never notice us as we blend in with their billion plus citizens.
  6. Alan Burke from Canada writes: Don Adams, that's a rather harsh attitude with an accompanying 'smiley'. Perhaps you should have a look at:

    The Ethics of Climate Change: Pay Now or Pay More Later?

    Weighing our own prosperity against the chances that climate change will diminish the well-being of our grandchildren calls on economists to make hard ethical judgments.

    Scientific American, May 2008.    '

    http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-ethics-of-climate-change
  7. Troubled Youth from Everywhere, Canada writes: Ya, Don Adams, don't you know enough to PANIC!!!
  8. pete peters from Blairemore, Independent Alberta, Canada writes: Breathtaking how this story has nothing to say about the FIRST recorded free-up of the Northwest Passage. And we all know why.

    In 1906 - long before global warming alarmism and the Church of the Environment asserted themselves - the Norwegian explorer Roald Amundsen traversed the Passage in the 'Gjoa'.

    Just think of it .. 1906! Humans were not even pumping the volumes of carbon into the atmosphere that they do today. Can it be that our climate has been changing all along, regardless of what we puny humans do?

    Once again, the Globe and Mail has been caught in one of its intellectually dishonest reports on the climate. This newspaper has adopted climate extremism as an editorial position - it sells newspapers - and will not be deterred no matter how silly they look.

    As for the rest of you who regularly post hysterical warnings on the subject - you're just plain wrong.
  9. Alan Burke from Canada writes: Concerning adaptation, you might also like to read the recently-released Health Canada Report - Human Health in a Changing Climate: A Canadian Assessment of Vulnerabilities and Adaptive Capacity

    You can order it from their website:
    http://tinyurl.com/5dote5

    or download it from mine:
    http://climatechange.dynalias.com (See the 'News' section) or
    http://climatechange.dynalias.com/downloads/Health%20Canada%20Climate%20Report.zip

    Natural Resources Canada also discusses adaptation:

    From Impacts to Adaptation: Canada in a Changing Climate 2007 reflects the advances made in understanding Canada's vulnerability to climate change during the past decade. Through a primarily regional approach, this assessment discusses current and future risks and opportunities that climate change presents to Canada, with a focus on human and managed systems. It is based on a critical analysis of existing knowledge, drawn from the published scientific and technical literature and from expert knowledge. The current state of understanding is presented, and key knowledge gaps are identified. Advances in understanding adaptation, as well as examples of recent and ongoing adaptation initiatives, are highlighted throughout the report.

    Online here: http://tinyurl.com/2uhqa2
    PDF here: http://tinyurl.com/66ovcp
  10. Alan Burke from Canada writes: The usual 'skeptic' arguments:

    Climate has changed before:
    http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-change-little-ice-age-medieval-warm-period.htm
    http://tinyurl.com/3xsd2d

    Ice age predicted in the '70s:
    http://www.skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s.htm
    http://tinyurl.com/3yzczf
  11. BUB ImumI from Canada writes: ..
    The hyperbole in the headline is quickly mitigated by:

    'Even though this summer's ice melt hasn't approached last year's record conditions,'

    So it isn't a record...

    WHAT HYPE!!

    ..//
  12. Alan Burke from Canada writes: The only one guilty of intellectual dishonesty is you, pete peters. The Gjoa took three years and was iced in:

    Gjøa left the Oslofjord on June 16, 1903, and made for the Labrador Sea west of Greenland. From there she crossed Baffin Bay and navigated the narrow, icy straits of the Arctic Archipelago. By late September Gjøa was west of the Boothia Peninsula and began to encounter worsening weather and sea ice. Amundsen put her into a natural harbour on the south shore of King William Island; by October 3 she was iced in.

    There she remained for nearly two years, with her crew undertaking sledge journeys to make measurements determine the location of the North Magnetic Pole, and learning from the local Inuit people. The harbour, known as Uqsuqtuuq (lots of fat) in Inuktitut, has become the only settlement on the island - Gjoa Haven, Nunavut has a population of just over 1000 people.

    Gjøa left Gjoa Haven on August 13, 1905, and motored through the treacherous straits south of Victoria Island, and from there west into the Beaufort Sea. By October Gjøa was again iced-in, this time near Herschel Island in the Yukon. Amundsen left his men onboard and spend much of the winter skiing 500 miles south to Eagle, Alaska to telegraph news of the expedition's success. He returned in March, but Gjøa remained icebound until July 11. Gjøa reached Nome on August 31, 1906. She sailed on to earthquake ravaged San Francisco, California where the expedition was met with a hero's welcome on October 19.

    Wikipedia: http://tinyurl.com/6olllt
  13. Alan Burke from ClimateChange.dynalias.com, Canada writes: As usual Bub ImamI, you missed the main point:

    Even though this summer's ice melt hasn't approached last year's record conditions, the once-frozen Northwest Passage through Canada's Arctic is expected to open again soon, for only the second time in recorded history.
  14. Robert Dryburgh from Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada writes: What caused the first occurrence? It seems this is just another bill of goods.
  15. Bill M from Canada writes: Alan Burke from ClimateChange.dynalias.com, Canada writes: As usual Bub ImamI, you missed the main point:

    Even though this summer's ice melt hasn't approached last year's record conditions, the once-frozen Northwest Passage through Canada's Arctic is expected to open again soon, for only the second time in recorded history.

    Alan, how many times did it open in unrecorded history?
  16. Bill Hopkins from London, Canada writes: JD Wood from Toronto, Canada writes: When will Stephen Harper admit that he was WRONG on the issue of climate change, and take steps to free this nation of its oil addiction?

    Sorry, JD. It's not Harper's responsibility. It's your's -- and mine -- and everyone elses. You can't shrug this one off on the politicians. It is individual citizens that are addicted to driving cars, buying goods that are trucked in, using electricity, heating homes, etc., etc. Governments may be able to implement long term plans in terms of power generation facilities, but only you can have an immediate impact by stopping your use of power -- stop driving, stop buying, and freeze your butt in winter.
  17. pete peters from Blairemore, Independent Alberta, Canada writes: Alan Burke ... you're regularly on here shilling for the alarmist movement, replete with URL's to people and websites that agree with you. It's a free country and you're entitled to those views.

    What you're not entitled to is pressuring politicans and governments to adopt draconian environmental and economic policies that will harm all of us on the basis of a disputed theory. Neither you, nor any other shill, ever fully discloses the full cost of carbon taxes, or their companion monster, cap-and-trade. It's not hard to understand why. If people knew how they would be beggared by these policies they would demand to know more about the alleged 'threat' and the justifications for it.

    Personally I would like to see both sides make their cases before a panel of senior judges - in a court where the rules of evidence apply - and emotional or fallacious arguments can be exposed for what they are. When Al Gore's film was hauled into a British court, the judge found a string of errors and unsubstantiated allegations in it.

    Climate hysteria may make for good news copy and eye-grabbing television, and may be a lucrative source of revenue and attention for alartmists. It is not a basis for sound social policy.
  18. Don Adams, The Conservative Centrist from Canada writes: Poor Alan Burke. He'll still be quoting stats and reports when the grim reaper comes to get him because he didn't adapt. :-) Oh well, no loss, right Alan? :-)
  19. Green Konstantin from Canada writes: Great news! Hopefully this means we can get our oil shipped to us cheaper and open new areas of exploration.
  20. Alan Burke from ClimateChange.dynalias.com, Canada writes: I support your call, pete peters, for a review using accepted rules of evidence. A judge would certainly have caught your misrepresentation of the Amundsen crossing. I suspect that the verdict would be that the cost of inaction would be dramatically more than the cost of action to mitigate and adapt to the impact of climate change.

    I have yet to see any credible evidence which would support the opposite view. Do you have any? Sincerely, I'd love to see it.
  21. Bill M from Canada writes: Alan Burke from Canada writes: The usual 'skeptic' arguments:

    I checked your 'unbiased' links Alan, and actually read some of the comments posted there as well. Interesting note that I've noticed as well, is the links to 'skeptics' source of information on the web keep disappearing. The National Earthquake Information Centre link to earthquake acivity off the Antartic coast just prior to 'massive chunk of ice break off' in March has conveniently been removed. I wonder why. Your 'unbiased' link also sneers at the 'peer reviewed' papers that predicted global cooling, but isn't that the basis of all your arguments? Peer reviewed means it is correct and there can be no doubt of it's accuracy, right? There is absolutely no chance that global warming peer reviewed papers aren't possibly biased by the act that grants will be available to the scientists who agree with the hypothesis? After all, any scientists that disagree are automatically labelled as being in the pockets of big oil. Any chance your scientists are in the pocket of wealth tranfer propopnents?
  22. Alan Burke from ClimateChange.dynalias.com, Canada writes: Don Adams, there are none so blind as those who will not see, like you.
  23. Bill Hopkins from London, Canada writes: pete peters from Blairemore, Independent Alberta, Canada writes: Alan Burke ... you're regularly on here shilling for the alarmist movement, replete with URL's to people and websites that agree with you. It's a free country and you're entitled to those views.

    A good point to consideer. In my career as a teacher, it was standard practice that whenever anything the least bit controversial was on the table, sources that represented all sides were provided so that students could discuss the matter and come up with their own conclusions based on a considered analysis of all the arguments. The IPCC and Alan Burke should take note.
  24. Bill M from Canada writes: Alan Burke from ClimateChange.dynalias.com, Canada writes: I have yet to see any credible evidence which would support the opposite view. Do you have any? Sincerely, I'd love to see it.

    Why? You wouldn't believe it.
  25. Bill Hopkins from London, Canada writes: Alan Burke from ClimateChange.dynalias.com, Canada writes: . I have yet to see any credible evidence which would support the opposite view. -- and then --- Don Adams, there are none so blind as those who will not see, like you.

    Begins to sound more and more like a religion with every post.
  26. Don Adams, The Conservative Centrist from Canada writes: Alan Burke. YOU are a prime example of the unrealistic idealistic alarmist crowd. :-) 'There are none so blind as those who will not see, like you' :-)
  27. B A from London, United Kingdom writes: 'It is not a basis for sound social policy.'

    Actually, if you read the Stern Review, you'd understand that indeed it is the basis of sound economic and social policy in the face of a changing climate.
  28. forty sum from Canada writes: Same sceintisit that were calling for a new ice age are the same ones who do not believe in global warming??
  29. pete peters from Blairemore, Independent Alberta, Canada writes: Alan Burke ... if you have not seen evidence that raises questions about, or disputes, the AGW theory one can only conclude you are so besotted you haven't even looked. There's TONS of information out there. Some of it from climate scientists who were part of the corrupt and bogus IPCC process.

    I am glad you agree judicial scrutiny of such an important issues is warranted. It would be illuminating to see good lawyers arguing the case for, and against, AGW before a panel of seasoned, capable judges. The process could take all of a year or two, and would certainly be worth the money invested before our politicans run amok like headless chickens. Or, should I say, like the hapless Stephane Dion.
  30. The Real PS from Canada writes: Alan Burke from Canada writes: The only one guilty of intellectual dishonesty is you, pete peters. The Gjoa took three years and was iced in:

    Well hang on there a minute, if we're going to debate intellectual dishonesty, could it be that it took three years because the speed of the Gjoa could not make the trip over the course of one very short summer and that somewhat obviously it would be iced in over the very long winter months.

    But the question remains: did the NWP open up in very early 1900's and did a boat traverse the NWP, even if it took 3 years because if it did, how do you explain that if it's GW that's the culprit?

    And while you're at it, how do you explain that GW is currently taking a 'break' when not one scientist predicted that?
  31. Alan Burke from ClimateChange.dynalias.com, Canada writes: The 'Stern Review on the economics of climate change'
    is a series of papers produced for the UK 'HM Treasury', available here:

    http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/independentreviews/sternrevieweconomicsclimatechange/sternreviewreport.cfm

    http://tinyurl.com/ye5to7

    From the summary of conclusions:

    There is still time to avoid the worst impacts of climate change, if we take strong action now.

    The scientific evidence is now overwhelming: climate change is a serious global threat, and it demands an urgent global response. This Review has assessed a wide range of evidence on the impacts of climate change and on the economic costs, and has used a number of different techniques to assess costs and risks. From all of these perspectives, the evidence gathered by the Review leads to a simple conclusion: the benefits of strong and early action far outweigh the economic costs of not acting.

    Climate change will affect the basic elements of life for people around the world - access to water, food production, health, and the environment. Hundreds of millions of people could suffer hunger, water shortages and coastal flooding as the world warms.

    Using the results from formal economic models, the Review estimates that if we don't act, the overall costs and risks of climate change will be equivalent to losing at least 5% of global GDP each year, now and forever. If a wider range of risks and impacts is taken into account, the estimates of damage could rise to 20% of GDP or more.

    In contrast, the costs of action - reducing greenhouse gas emissions to avoid the worst impacts of climate change - can be limited to around 1% of global GDP each year._
  32. BUB ImumI from Canada writes: ...//

    Alan Burke...

    You are not a credible authority.

    Here is one:

    http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/arctic.jpg

    Looks pretty jam packed with ice to me. But I'll let people decide for them selves.

    hype...
  33. BUB ImumI from Canada writes: ..//

    Alan Burke is trying to HYPE his own web site.

    I hope the Globe and Mail are getting their due advertisement fees.

    They are suckers if they let you pimp them....

    ..//
  34. slapdash dapoint from trawna, Canada writes: awesome!

    if it happens next year, maybe we could have wakestock there!!
  35. Uncle Fester from Canada writes:
    No doubt the ice up there is thinner than it has been for a considerable time. However the passage was first recorded as open in 1906.

    30 years of satellite photography is not much of a recorded history to compare to the climate cycle or the MOC.

    Scientists now know that natural rapid climate change has long been the norm. Both warming and cooling.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roald_Amundsen

    http://www.wunderground.com/climate/abruptclimate.asp
  36. Alan Burke from ClimateChange.dynalias.com, Canada writes: BUB ImamI, I don't claim to be an authority. You should have noticed my earlier posting to credible and authoritative sites concerning polar ice (it was at 5:38 AM). Why did you ignore those links and choose to cherry-pick one graphic, without the associated commentary?
  37. BUB ImumI from Canada writes: ...

    ..//
    From Alan Burke's OWN web site:

    'I'm not a climatologist'

    Well there you go....

    ..//
  38. Green Konstantin from Canada writes: From Alan Burke's OWN web site:

    'I'm not a climatologist, i just really, really, really like ice.'
  39. BUB ImumI from Canada writes: ..//

    For those of us with eyes,

    Look at this picture of the NW Passage taken yesterday.. YESTERDAY..

    My god it was taken YESTERDAY!!

    http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/arctic.4.jpg

    It is full of ice.

    What total hype!!
  40. Troubled Youth from Everywhere, Canada writes: Actually, if you follow the money, the eco-industrial complex is managed by a couple of American electric corporations. The GE conglomerate being one. This isn't about science. It's about a market segment being enlarged and new PC tech given advantage and tax dollars to expand that market with out having to compete in the free market of ideas. Your going to transition from fossil fuel to electric and it won't matter how many Nuclear reactors have to be built. [current numbers are one plant per province and 48 contiguous states by 2020] Or how much toxic nuclear waste. Alan Burke is just doing as he's told or no carbon tax dollars for him. That's right. A carbon tax will fund the eco-industrial complex. Corporate welfare we'd call it if it was going to traditional enterprises. World socialism is on the move in the very countries that worked for it's expulsion from Russia and South America and Asia. Bob Rae is a liberal. Ed Broadbent's Proteus has jumped the NDP ship to steer the new socialist economy. The public will be guilted into supporting what would never compete on equal terms with our current economy. The public is about to be bled like the last whale of the hunt. With total indifference. People should feel guilty for existing.
  41. North of the Border from Canada writes: Don Adams, The Conservative Centrist : adapt? I'm in the process of growing myself some fins, any plans yourself? Little humour, little humour. It's funny because a trip back east earlier this summer was the first time I had not seen any icebergs in the summertime. Should I expect someone in here telling me it's because global warming has stepped up and the ice melts before getting a chance to past Labrador now? Maybe I should have squinted and watched for ice cubes instead?
  42. mojo monkee from Canada writes: pete peters from Blairemore, Independent Alberta, Canada writes: Breathtaking how this story has nothing to say about the FIRST recorded free-up of the Northwest Passage. And we all know why.

    In 1906 - long before global warming alarmism and the Church of the Environment asserted themselves - the Norwegian explorer Roald Amundsen traversed the Passage in the 'Gjoa'.
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    That was going to be my first question... a key point to the article that the Globe left out!
  43. Green Konstantin from Canada writes: Troubled Youth from Everywhere, Canada writes: Actually, if you follow the money, the eco-industrial complex is managed by a couple of American electric corporations. The GE conglomerate being one.

    ___________
    Hey, good news. Rage Against The Machine is touring again. You should focus on that.
  44. Albert McGowan from Canada writes: All you climate change people miss the point. Tell me why climate change is going on in Jupiter and Mars? Answers please?

    You are being fed a deception lie.
    You better check what they found about planet X called Nibiru and its orbit 5 times the size of earth and the gravitational pull when it comes around in 2012 or every 3600 years.
    Last time it caused the great flood recorded in every history of every surviving people on the earth.
    Then go check the Georgia guidestones built by anonymous people and what it says. Gullible people.
    It was December 30th, 1983 that announcement was made by the NASA chief scientist of the Infra-Red Astronomical Satellite telescope (IRAS) to 6 daily newspapers. Immediately after that, the huge curtain of silence and coverup came down on this subject.
    Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and Iraq had aq connections.wake up. Deep Impact movie was made to sensitise you.
    Will you be chosen to survive?
  45. Dropped Acid - Climate change is a socialist conspriacy (I don't think...) from Canada writes: .

    It's all part of a global socialist conspriacy man!!!

    David Suzuki and like Al Gore and like other people are all behind this scheme to ship money from Ft. McMurray to like the Mirimachi-valley in New Brunswick to like socialize everything man!!!!

    Ever since dropping some acid and losing 50 IQ points, I now see the light and agree with the conservatives on this issue man!!! It's all a big conspiracy man!!!

    Who needs science when you can simply 'feel' that the scientists are wrong based on nothing more than being annoyed with the fact that humans are causing climate change!!! Instead, it's better to see the truth behind this - it's all a socialist conspriacy man!!!

    Vote for Harper in '08 before it's too late because like Harper knows about this conspiracy and will like save us all from becoming more fuel efficient man!!!!
  46. Alan Burke from ClimateChange.dynalias.com, Canada writes: Uncle Fester, thanks for the 'wunderground' link. While rapid and dramatic shifts have happened in the past, there is risk that we're approaching a 'tipping point' which might shut down the MOC.

    _The Independent News - February 2008

    Scientists identify 'tipping points' of climate change

    'Nine ways in which the Earth could be tipped into a potentially dangerous state that could last for many centuries have been identified by scientists investigating how quickly global warming could run out of control.'

    Reported in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Read the full report here:

    http://researchpages.net/ESMG/people/tim-lenton/tipping-points/

    and download from here:

    http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/105/6/1786.pdf
  47. Dropped Acid - Climate change is a socialist conspriacy (I don't think...) from Canada writes: BUB ImumI from Canada writes: ..//

    For those of us with eyes,

    Look at this picture of the NW Passage taken yesterday.. YESTERDAY..

    My god it was taken YESTERDAY!!

    http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/arctic.4.jpg

    --------------------------

    Bub - as a fellow conservative apologist/conspiracy theorist, I commend you on this latest tactic man!!!

    Let's pretend that just because there is ice, even though it's many times less thick than it should be, that everything is ok man!!!

    Seeing is believing, right man??? Who are these scientists anyway with their science man????

    It's all a conspriacy man!!!!
  48. Alan Burke from ClimateChange.dynalias.com, Canada writes: Green Konstantin, there is no such quote on my website.
  49. Dropped Acid - Climate change is a socialist conspriacy (I don't think...) from Canada writes: Albert McGowan from Canada writes: All you climate change people miss the point. Tell me why climate change is going on in Jupiter and Mars? Answers please?

    You are being fed a deception lie.
    You better check what they found about planet X called Nibiru and its orbit 5 times the size of earth and the gravitational pull when it comes around in 2012 or every 3600 years.

    --------------------------

    Yeah man!!! Let's talk about things that are completely un-related to earth climate patterns and pretend that we're onto something in order to expose this socialst conspriacy brought upon us by David Suzuki man!!!!

    Albert, you're like so groovy man - whatever acid you've just dropped, pass it over man!!!
  50. BUB ImumI from Canada writes: ...

    Alan Burke is Dropped acid.

    Wow you are really desperate...

    ..//
  51. Dropped Acid - Climate change is a socialist conspriacy (I don't think...) from Canada writes: .

    Green Konstantin from Canada writes: From Alan Burke's OWN web site:

    'I'm not a climatologist, i just really, really, really like ice.'

    --------------------------

    Greenie!!! Is that 'green' for the color of acid you just dropped man!!!!

    Faking quotes is an excellent conservative strategy and an important one to make sure that we reach out to the 95% of scientists and 80% of the general population that are currently fooled into believing that science is more important than 'gut feeling' on this issue man!!!

    Like socialism is like evil and David Suzuki is like in charge of this conspriacy and like we need to like stop it via whatever means - even lies are acceptable because like Ft. McMurray is too important for us...

    Fellow conservatives - pass the acid man!!!
  52. Alan Burke from ClimateChange.dynalias.com, Canada writes: Albert McGowan from Canada writes: All you climate change people miss the point. Tell me why climate change is going on in Jupiter and Mars? Answers please?

    Since you asked so nicely, have a look at:

    Global warming on Mars, ice caps melting

    http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-on-mars.htm
  53. B A from London, United Kingdom writes: BUB ImumI:

    So you mean to tell me that you looking at a sattelite image of ice cover is a more credible source of information on the status of the polar ice cover than the thousands of climate scientists with PhDs who are able to disentangle the effects of anthropocentric global climate change and natural processes? Laughable.
  54. Dropped Acid - Climate change is a socialist conspriacy (I don't think...) from Canada writes: BUB ImumI from Canada writes: ...

    Alan Burke is Dropped acid.

    Wow you are really desperate...

    -------------------

    Yeah man!!! It's all a conspriacy man!!!

    Bub - you weren't around when they were doing the introductions last week so I must have missed you.

    Which department of the con-hack-war-room do you currently work in? I'm in the 'it's all a conspriacy' department - are you in 'Liberals are bad' department or 'Harper is the Lord' department?

    Either way, I'll see you at the 1pm meeting this afternoon.
  55. Alan Burke from ClimateChange.dynalias.com, Canada writes: BUB ImamI, no, I'm not 'Dropped Acid'. Who are you? Too cowardly to say?
  56. Dropped Acid - Climate change is a socialist conspriacy (I don't think...) from Canada writes: .

    Now back to work before the boss notices I've posted one post slightly off topic....

    As a staunch conservative, I DEMAND the following;

    We MUST remain dependant on fossil-fuels
    We MUST not improve technology
    We MUST pollute at all costs

    Those are the first of my list of DEMANDS as a conservative. More will follow if this David Suzuki climate change conspiracy is like allowed to continue and such.

    Why are 95% of scientists and 80% of the general population such sheep???

    Fellow conservatives - pass the acid man!!!
  57. David K from Guelph, Canada writes: The question was asked about Amundsen's 'Gjoa' and you might as well toss in the RCMP 'St Roche'. They spent much of their time frozen in the ice and moved along by the ice itself. Ice is not static, it flows albeit more slowly. Shackelton's 'Endurance also moved a great distance in the Weddell Sea even though frozen in solid. These were not open water voyages except during the summer at the fringes of the pack.
  58. Alan Burke from ClimateChange.dynalias.com, Canada writes: BUB ImamI said 'For those of us with eyes,

    Look at this picture of the NW Passage taken yesterday.. YESTERDAY..

    My god it was taken YESTERDAY!!    '

    See:

    http://iup.physik.uni-bremen.de:8084/amsr/arcticAMSREnic.png

    Taken Aug. 5 (yesterday). It's not 'full of ice'.
  59. Dropped Acid - Climate change is a socialist conspriacy (I don't think...) from Canada writes: B A from London, United Kingdom writes: BUB ImumI:

    So you mean to tell me that you looking at a sattelite image of ice cover is a more credible source of information on the status of the polar ice cover than the thousands of climate scientists with PhDs who are able to disentangle the effects of anthropocentric global climate change and natural processes? Laughable.

    -------------------------

    B A - how DARE you talk about Bub ImamI that way??? Didn't you know that Bub used 3% less oil to warm his house with last year???? Isn't this enough proof to prove that David Suzuki and climate change are a big conspiracy????

    (Bub - how did I do brother??? Hopefully this is enough to distract people from knowing you are a fellow hack, like myself). Let me know what other tactics I should use to increase your credibility - as long as they don't realize you only have your high-school diploma, even though it looks fake to me, than we're onto something man!!!
  60. The Real PS from Canada writes: Alan Burke, you haven't answered my questions:

    But the question remains: did the NWP open up in very early 1900's and did a boat traverse the NWP, even if it took 3 years because if it did, how do you explain that if it's GW that's the culprit?

    And while you're at it, how do you explain that GW is currently taking a 'break' when not one scientist predicted that?
  61. Billy Talon from Toronto, Canada writes: Troubled Youth from Everywhere, Canada writes: Actually, if you follow the money, the eco-industrial complex is managed by a couple of American electric corporations. The GE conglomerate being one. This isn't about science. It's about a market segment being enlarged and new PC tech given advantage and tax dollars to expand that market with out having to compete in the free market of ideas.

    ***

    Hmm, so both the left AND right have thier own conspiracy theories.
  62. BUB ImumI from Canada writes: .//

    Alan Burke is so desperate he needs to use bait and switch techniques to get attention...

    He quotes me then he put his own link in.

    wow..... are you on meds?
  63. Alan Burke from ClimateChange.dynalias.com, Canada writes: Sorry about the 9:05 markup problem (the G&M idiocy about underscores). Here's a usable link to yesterday's ice:

    http://tinyurl.com/6fs489
  64. Scare Crow from Canada writes: For only the second time in recorded history, storied Arctic channel likely to be ice-free 'in the next few weeks'

    -- So what were our GHG output in the FIRST time it opened? This looks like a phenomena that happens from time to time. Like some volcano that will explode once every 1 or 2 centuries. Big deal.
  65. bill williams from Canada writes: -

    The anomalies are not the story (this year, last year, 1906, whatever), the TREND is the story.

    The trend is less ice.

    -
  66. Dropped Acid - Climate change is a socialist conspriacy (I don't think...) from Canada writes: BUB ImumI from Canada writes: ..//

    BA

    you say 'thousands of climate scientists'

    Bull!!

    http://www.petitionproject.org/

    ---------------------

    That's not bad!!! Not bad at all!!! As long as people don't realize that the petitionproject is a complete joke and that the petition was not based on a review of the science of global climate change, nor were its signers experts in the field of climate science. Upon closer analysis of the signatories, only a few dozen at best were drawn from the core disciplines of climate science - such as meteorology, oceanography, and glaciology - and almost none were climate specialists. And if they don't realize that anyone can sign it, then we're onto something man!!!

    Also, as long as no one exposes the fact that cartoon character names were added to the list to show how pathetic it was, then yes, that would be an excellent way to prove the fact that climate change is a global socialist conspiracy man!!!
  67. BUB ImumI from Canada writes: ..//

    North West Passage Yesterday

    University of Illinois

    http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/arctic.4.jpg

    FULL of ICE

    ..//
  68. Clive Gingell from Canada writes: The Real PS asks 'And while you're at it, how do you explain that GW is currently taking a 'break' '
    ..................

    C'mon Man, like even Global Warming gets tired, Man. LOL
  69. Alan Burke from ClimateChange.dynalias.com, Canada writes: If you'd like to see what's really happening with temperatures, 'The Real PS', have a look here:

    http://ClimateChange.dynalias.com/Temperatures.html

    You can even download the spreadsheet to do your own analysis if you'd like.
  70. a salajan from To, Canada writes: BUB ImumI from Canada writes: ...Alan Burke is Dropped acid.Wow you are really desperate...

    Desperate? Noooo....Funny? Yes. Of course that would make me anohter alias of Dropped acid.
  71. Dropped Acid - Climate change is a socialist conspriacy (I don't think...) from Canada writes: The Real PS from Canada writes: Alan Burke, you haven't answered my questions:

    And while you're at it, how do you explain that GW is currently taking a 'break' when not one scientist predicted that?

    -------------------------

    Dude!!! That's an awesome tactic!!! Do you mind if I borrow it man????

    I mean, setting up fake arguements is simply amazing man!!! It's sure to expose the FACT that climate change is a global socialist conspiracy headed by David Suzuki to STEAL money from Ft. McMurray and those innocent oil companies that as a conservative I have sworn my allegience to, man!!!

    This conspiracy has got to end man before it's too late!!! The way things are going, pretty soon we'll all be more energy efficient, and as a conservative I can tell you that this is just plain wrong!!!

    Vote for Harper in '08 and pass the acid man!!!
  72. The Real PS from Canada writes: bill williams from Canada writes: -The anomalies are not the story (this year, last year, 1906, whatever), the TREND is the story. The trend is less ice.

    No Bill, that's not the story, the story is, has the trend happened before because all the climate change folks insist it never has and that the current trend is caused exclusively by GHG.

    Although I can never get one of them to tell me why the trend is 'taking a break' and not one of them predicted that.
  73. B A from London, United Kingdom writes: BUB ImumI: Obivously there's no repository of names of climate scientists who acknowledge climate change - the field is beyond the simple and inane dichotomous debate of whether it's true or not. But it's evidenced but the thousands of peer-reviewed articles and studies in academic journals (sorry searching on google doesn't count as proper academic research). Take off the tin-foil hat for a minute and look at the Stern Review, or the IPCC's publications. Or the statements from thousands of financial institutions that stand to lose from diversions of capital into environmental investments but who still support climate change and related inititatives. And you're still telling me that your google searching skills, and an unsubstantiated website is more accurate than the avalanche of evidence in academia (which you might not be privvy to). Still laughable, and probably exactly what I get for getting involved in an internet debate no the subject.
  74. The Real PS from Canada writes: Dropped, if you were funny that would be okay, but you're not, you're just dumb.
  75. BUB ImumI from Canada writes: ..//

    ' Dropped Acid - Climate change is a socialist conspriacy (I don't think...) from Canada writes: The Real PS from Canada writes: Alan Burke, you haven't answered my questions:'

    you forgot to switch your alias there Alan/Dropped acid...

    getting to be a bit too much for ya..

    hoo hoooo

    wacked....
  76. Alan Burke from ClimateChange.dynalias.com, Canada writes: BS, PS:

    'No Bill, that's not the story, the story is, has the trend happened before because all the climate change folks insist it never has and that the current trend is caused exclusively by GHG.'
  77. Dropped Acid - Climate change is a socialist conspriacy (I don't think...) from Canada writes: BUB ImumI from Canada writes: ..//

    North West Passage Yesterday

    University of Illinois

    http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/arctic.4.jpg

    FULL of ICE

    ..//

    -----------------

    Amazing!!! Bub - you blow my mind man!!! I will nominate you to our boss later today at the meeting for the most amazing tactic of the day!!!!

    The idea that you would post the same thing (albeit slightly differently worded) right after having it shot down and completely discredited is an amazing tactic that I must emulate immediately, man!!!!

    Repeating non-sense over and over is a sure way to make people see the credibility and amazing amount of knowledge that we conservatives have regarding this issue. It's sure to make people realize that this is part of a global socialist conspiracy for sure man!!!

    Bub - pass whatever acid you are on because that sh!t is crazy!!!
  78. B A from London, United Kingdom writes: The Real PS from Canada: 'Although I can never get one of them to tell me why the trend is 'taking a break' and not one of them predicted that. '

    You don't understand the concept of a 'trend' very well do you?
  79. garlick toast from Canada writes: Will the Canadian navy be on hand to monitor shipping traffic in our north?
  80. Dr Demento from Canada writes: Research scientists actually IN the Arctic are telling us that the ice is melting and it will be only the second year of open water in the northern NWP route in recorded history and BUB ImumI is still convinced that the Arctic is 'clogged' with ice.

    roflmao . . .
  81. Albert McGowan from Canada writes: Alan Burke from ClimateChange.dynalias.com, Canada

    Believe what you want but if you have any guts do the research.All kinds of stuff happening in the solar system we know. Vibrations caused by the new big boy entering the game.But hey if CNN didnt report it it cant be true right?.
  82. BUB ImumI from Canada writes: ..//

    ' B A from London, United Kingdom writes: BUB ImumI: Obivously there's no repository of names of climate scientists who acknowledge climate change'

    My point exactly.

    There is, however an ever growing repository of names of Scientists, Climate scientists, environmental scientist who do not accept AGW.

    http://www.petitionproject.org/gwdatabase/GWPP/QualificationsOfSigners.html

    'Atmospheric, environmental, and Earth sciences includes 3,697 scientists trained in specialties directly related to the physical environment of the Earth and the past and current phenomena that affect that environment.'

    Not to mention the American Physics Society.

    ..//
  83. Now Tarfu from Canada writes:
    BUB ImumI talks over and over again about his 3100 climate and environmental PhDs who say there is no man made global warming.

    In fact, the so-called PhDs are replete with engineers and others who have no credentials whatsoever. I suspect even BuB and Martha Stewart have joined the group.

    BUB also seems surprised that there is still some ice in the Northwest Passage. That shows the depth of his knowledge of climate and ecosystems.
  84. Dropped Acid - Climate change is a socialist conspriacy (I don't think...) from Canada writes: The Real PS from Canada writes: bill williams from Canada writes: -The anomalies are not the story (this year, last year, 1906, whatever), the TREND is the story. The trend is less ice.

    Although I can never get one of them to tell me why the trend is 'taking a break' and not one of them predicted that.

    -----------------------

    Wicked groovy man!!!!

    The old 'asking something that's false twice, must make it true' tactic. I dig it dude, I dig it real deep man!!!! That's just so out there man!!!

    This is sure to win us some supporters in our effort as conservatives to wake people up to the fact that 95% of scientists have fallen victim to this David Suzuki inspired global conspriacy to socialize Ft. McMurray man!!!
  85. Theo from Thule, Ontario. from Canada writes: 'Dr. Serreze said, the phenomenon is further proof that humankind might witness an ice-free Arctic Ocean within decades, with resulting unpredictable weather patterns'.

    Since when have meteorologists/climatologists been able to predict any weather system with any accuracy, further than 48 hrs in the future, and that is usually hit and miss at best!
  86. Big Wayne Kerr from Canada writes: Misinformation. How many times has the NW passage been crossed? On July 1, 1957, the United States Coast Guard cutter Storis departed in company with U.S. Coast Guard cutters Bramble (WLB-392) and SPAR (WLB-403) to search for a deep draft channel through the Arctic Ocean and to collect hydrographic information. Upon her return to Greenland waters, the Storis became the first U.S.-registered vessel to circumnavigate North America. In June 1977 sailor Willy de Roos left Belgium to attempt crossing the Northwest Passage in his 13.8 m (45 ft) steel yacht Williwaw. He reached the Bering Strait in September and after a stopover in Victoria, British Columbia, went on to round Cape Horn and sail back to Belgium, thus being the first sailor to circumnavigate the Americas entirely by ship.[19] In 1984, the commercial passenger vessel MS Explorer (which sank in the Antarctic Ocean in 2007) became the first cruise ship to navigate the passage.[20] David Scott Cowper set out in July 1986 from England in a 12.8 m (42 foot) lifeboat, the Mabel El Holland, and survived 3 Arctic winters in the Northwest Passage before reaching the Bering Strait in August 1989. He then continued around the world via the Cape of Good Hope to arrive back on 24 September 1990, becoming the first vessel to circumnavigate via the Northwest Passage[21]. On September 1, 2001, Northabout, an 14.3 m (47 ft) aluminium sailboat with diesel engine[22], built and captained by Jarlath Cunnane, completed the Northwest Passage east-to-west from Ireland to the Bering Strait. The voyage from the Atlantic to the Pacific was completed in a very fast time of 24 days. The Northabout then cruised in Canada for two years before it returned to Ireland in 2005 via the Northeast Passage thereby completing the first east-to-west circumnavigation of the pole by a single sailboat.
  87. BUB ImumI from Canada writes: ..//

    Dr Demento

    Don't take my word for it.. by all means...
    use your own eyes

    http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/arctic.4.jpg

    It looks full of ice to me.

    ..//
  88. Alan Burke from ClimateChange.dynalias.com, Canada writes: BUB, there's a very simple way to see if one user is using aliases.

    Yours is 'bubimumi'

    Mine is 'sftweng'

    Acid's is not 'sftweng'.

    'The Real PS' is 'petersymons'
  89. Canadian Candidate from Canada writes: Wow, when I see how hateful and ignorant Canadians can be, I ask myself why I'm running at all. It truly is embarrassing; I wish my fellow citizens would smarten up and grow up. And fast.
  90. Big Wayne Kerr from Canada writes: This weekend in the Thousand Islands the early turning maple trees started turning red. The days are getting shorter every day now. The arctic is at it warmest and begins cooling now, just like every year.

    When the globe decides something, it just keeps on the jihad....
  91. Dropped Acid - Climate change is a socialist conspriacy (I don't think...) from Canada writes: BUB ImumI from Canada writes: 'Atmospheric, environmental, and Earth sciences includes 3,697 scientists trained in specialties directly related to the physical environment of the Earth and the past and current phenomena that affect that environment.'

    ----------------

    Bubby boy - I've just warned you about using the Oregon Petition - I don't think it helps our cause dude!!!

    Anyone doing even the most basic amount of research can easily discredit that petition - remember dude - out of thos 3,697 scientists, only only a few dozen at best were drawn from the core disciplines of climate science - such as meteorology, oceanography, and glaciology - and almost none were climate specialists.

    My point is, it's dangerous to drag that out because of how easily discredited it is!!! Instead, you will have more credibility if you keep repeating your personal observations and that 3% drop in heating oil man!!!

    That is the way that we will save Ft. McMurray from socialisation dude!!! It's all a conspiracy dude set forth by David Suzuki!!!!

    Vote for Harper in '08 before we become less dependant on fossil fuels, dude!!!
  92. Dave Roberts from Toronto, Canada writes: You gotta think more shipping traffic up there breaking ice each year has made an impact on the thickness of multi-year ice.
  93. Brian, Communication is the key. from Winnipeg, Canada writes: <