Skip navigation

 Login or Register | Member Centre

Georgian president ready to declare martial law

NIKOLAI PAVLOV

Reuters

Latest comment posted at 10:16 AM EST 08/08/08

Fighting between Georgian forces and Russian-backed separatists raged in and around Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia ...Read the full article

This conversation is closed

  1. Popeye Dillon from North Vancouver, Canada writes: Some more ethnic cleansing and resurgence of old hatreds. Some things will never change.
  2. Brad Fgroupthinkn from Canada writes: Are they also using Russian helicopters?
    What wonderful, military industrial complex, world we live in.
  3. Joyce Smith from Canada writes: The more things change, the more they stay the same.
  4. Jesse Winger from Calgary SW, Canada writes: Russia is returning to its bad old ways. Not good.
  5. Carl C. from Montreal, Canada writes: I think it is Georgia who attacked Ossetia now... So the above posters should be more critical before immediately blaming Russia or Georgia...
  6. Chris E. from Canada writes: The U.S.S.R. collapsed because it was a failed experiment, not just economically, but because ethnicity and self-determination is so important to people. The central government was unable to convince Georgians, Ukranians, Lithuanians and others to subordinate themselves to become 'Soviet Man'.

    The U.S.S.R. was one of the longest modern experiments in multiculturalism, and it failed utterly. (Too bad, Trudeau) Next up, the EU, and Canada.
  7. George Nikitin from Hamilton, Canada writes: The Russians fighting a war on their border , even if it's aggressive, is infinitly cooler than the U.S. kicking over countries half a world away. Atleast they're honest about it. Nobody's false talking anyone's 'freedom' here.
  8. Don Adams, The Conservative Centrist from Canada writes: Well, should keep Russia busy for awhile :-)

    Seriously though, if NATO would just ask Russia to join, it could solve a few problems. Make Russians think, maybe the West just aren't the bad guys they've always thought they were.....that in itself could really LOWER Putins influence in Russia. Plus, one of these days, as things now stand, they KNOW they're going to have a go at it with the Chinese...China needs resources, and looking to the sparsely populated, resource filled region to the North.......? IF Russia were NATO members, that'd take care of any thoughts China might entertain about walking in.
  9. Brent Wilkins from Canada writes: 8/8/8 the NWO events of the day are just beginning. Get some popcorn and watch the show.
  10. Beatriz Perez-Sanchez from Toronto, Canada writes: George Nikitin, thanks for pointing out the difference between the U.S. and Russia vis-a-vis their involvement in various conflicts and foreign affairs in general. Regardless of what one may think about Moscow's goals, the Russians have always been far more honest about their motives than the U.S. or the E.U. That was even true with regard to the role played by the former Soviet Union in Afghanistan. The U.S. has never been hesitant to prop up authoritarian regimes or butchers like Saddam Hussein when it suited their purposes. What has always distinguished the U.S. from Russia (or the former Soviet Union) was the hypocrisy of the U.S. in hiding behind a mask of 'freedom' and 'democracy' while supporting any tyrant who would do its bidding.
  11. Tesla Pupin from Wallis And Futuna Islands writes: G&M : ...'Russian-backed separatists'...

    Hold on a moment G&M, I thought the term reserved for similar movements elsewhere was 'freedom fighters', or 'oppressed minority' or something along these lines...Like 'Kosovars'? Are we trying to forget the whole Kosovo affair now? Or just applying double standards as usual?
  12. Yvonne Wackernagel from Woodville, Canada writes: Now that BP has had to leave Russia, the U.K. and the U.S. are looking to pick a fight, AND THEY WILL GET A FIGHT. I don't know why these two countries think they are the bosses of the World and everyone else should fit in. Unfortunately, the foolish Georgians will the ones to lose their lives, not the politicians.
  13. free thinker (you get what you pay for) from not far from here, Canada writes: Georgia is acting this way because of Western backing. So in a way this conflict acts as a proxy for the bigger contest of who gets geopolitical influence in Eastern Europe and Central Asia. Recognizing Kosovo's independence a few months ago is also part of this contest.
  14. free thinker (you get what you pay for) from not far from here, Canada writes: and by the way, if you want your thinking to be in line with Western pundits... Western-backed = good, valid claims, freedom, etc. Russian-backed = bad, sinister motives, etc. The actual issue matters very little.
  15. Rangzen Bhu from Toronto, Canada writes: The Russian invasion of tiny country of Georgia is like Giant man beating a toddler.

    Shame on you Russia.
  16. Paul F. from Toronto, Canada writes: It appears most of the people in South Ossetia want to be part of Russia. Why does Georgia get to impose its will through arms? Even though Georgia is the smaller power here it doesn't entitle them to use violence here. The locals have had a referendum just recently that was recognized as valid by international observers that shows an overwhelming majority want to leave Georgia.

    Why are the EU and the US silent on this one?
  17. Just Hmmm from Canada writes: The Russians have classified Georgia as a terrorist threat. Thus this action is simply a pre-emptive strike. We can't have it both ways. If we support our allies doing it in Iraq then we must allow countries we are less inclined to support to do it to their 'enemies'. This is the can of worms GW and all the shortsighted pols in the US opened and until we are all willing to state in an unequivocal and forceful way that the invasion of Iraq was an illegal action we have little recourse to complain about others doing it.

    Make, bed, lie.
  18. jimmie rabbit from toronto, Canada writes: as long as they keep the feds out of atlanta all will be well
  19. Paul F. from Toronto, Canada writes: Chris E. from Canada writes: The U.S.S.R. collapsed because it was a failed experiment, not just economically, but because ethnicity and self-determination is so important to people. The central government was unable to convince Georgians, Ukranians, Lithuanians and others to subordinate themselves to become 'Soviet Man'.

    The U.S.S.R. was one of the longest modern experiments in multiculturalism, and it failed utterly. (Too bad, Trudeau) Next up, the EU, and Canada.

    ---

    Too bad you have no idea what you are talking about.

    The Ossetians are their own national grouping. They have long sought autonomy from Georgia. In fact from the time Georgia declared its independence, the Ossetians have asserted theirs. There have been two referendums (one with international observers) that gave OVERWHELMING support (99%) for independence from Georgia.

    Whatever the other issues are, the Georgian attack on South Ossetia is the act of agression here.
  20. Beatriz Perez-Sanchez from Toronto, Canada writes: brian silva, please calm down. You got so riled up that you posted twice. The truth is that the Russians always were more transparent. The real problem, especially as far as Stalin was concerned, is that the West, its 'leaders' and much of its media chose to be blind and overlook Stalin's savagery because he was an 'ally' against Hitler and the Nazis. Stalin and Hitler were birds of a feather. I do not defend and have never defended Stalin. That does not change the fact that he and the Soviet government were transparent in their ambitions. Only a fool or those whose governments and media fooled them into believing otherwise could not see it.

    By the way, my teeth are fine, I don't live in a 'stinking hole' and I have never had a desire to work for Pravda. As for your use of the word 'anti-american', please do your homework. I am not 'anti-american'. I am however opposed to the policies of the U.S. government. There is a great difference between the two. I am surprised that such an erudite individual as you cannot make that distinction.
  21. Brent Wilkins from Canada writes: 'I don't know why these two countries think they are the bosses of the World and everyone else should fit in.'

    They are the bosses of the world. Long live the Anglo-American empire!

    -Russia lost the cold war - they had their chance
    -China is the present slave labour(Previously Africans, Taiwan, SE Asia and Japan)
  22. Mad Man from Toronto, Canada writes: 'More than 1,000 U.S. Marines and soldiers were at the base last month to teach combat skills to Georgian troops.'

    I don't blame the Russians for panicking. Let's face it, the Americans did pretty much the same thing when the Soviets installed missiles in Cuba. Older people all remember this, right?
  23. Brian Whitmore from Canada writes: jimmie rabbit from toronto, Canada writes: as long as they keep the feds out of atlanta all will be well >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Jimmie: I hope I'm sensing some sarcasm there. If so, funny comment! If not, oh boy...
  24. achebe .... from Canada writes: This is just great. Russia recognizes South Ossetia as being a part of Georgia but they are willing to go to war with Georgia over a tiny breakaway province of 70,000 people.
    There is nothing at stake here for Russia - so why the tanks and guns?
  25. Runnin Rebel from Canada writes: Putin flexing again..........
  26. Paul F. from Toronto, Canada writes: Rangzen Bhu from Toronto, Canada writes: The Russian invasion of tiny country of Georgia is like Giant man beating a toddler.

    Shame on you Russia.

    -----

    Don't you mean shame on Georgia? It was Georgia that launched the attack on Ossetia, to forcibly annex it. 99% of the population doesn't want to be part of Georgia. They are the bullies here.

    Why don't people do a little research on a subject before judging the situation? The Ossetians consider the Russians to be protectors in this case.
  27. Runnin Rebel from Canada writes:
    Think I,ve seen this movie before.
  28. B A from Ottawa, Canada writes: Hhhhmmm, leaving aside the rhetoric, Russia has been the thorn in Georgia's side and vice versa for the last 17 years. On the one hand because at the time (pre-US funding) Georgia didn't have the troops to maintain its own borders Chechnyan rebels would often seek sanctuary in Northern Georgia which would cause Russians to send unit and airstrikes across the border. A problem that caused no end of tension between the two states. Add to this the fact that the Russians started funding the Ossetians about the same time as Georgia signed with both Italian and US oil companies to build the CPC and you begin to see what a mess this is. One of the first things the Russians did when they went into Chechnya was retake the oil pipeline that ran from Azerbaijhan to Novorossysk as it was the only functional pipeline out of the Caspian Basin up until four years ago (Soviet built). Shortly thereafter, a Western Conglomerate began building the CPC from Azerbaijhan through Georgia to Ceyhan (Turkey), a modern line built through a stable region that would counter Russia's energy influence in the region. Though Russia attempted to buy shares in the line they were limited in the amount of influence they were permitted as it was felt that allowing Russia control over both lines would be an economic risk (I think final tally was only 5%). Shortly thereafter, the Russians began to fund the Ossetians and support them militarily but were unprepared for the US rearming of the Georgians after 9/11 as allies against terrorism. Seventeen years of military build up, ethnic hatred, poverty and now established and vulnerable energy corridors. Should be a good show. Guaranteed to spike the price of oil though.
  29. Runnin Rebel from Canada writes: Putin trying to get Stalin's home back.
  30. Brent Wilkins from Canada writes: I'm near the Alabama border. How long to I have to pack my stuff and gather up the family before I'm overrun by Russians?

    Damn, I'm supposed to go to Atlanta tomorrow. Think I can make the trip safely?
  31. a salajan from Canada writes: brian silva from Canada,

    'Nazi, idiot, stupid, naive, rotten teeth'...

    Too much coffee today?
  32. M. U. from Canada writes: Unfortunately, the Georgians are going to have a rough ride for a while... The Russians will be happy to play them to show to the world that they are not 'toothless' after all.
  33. Paul F. from Toronto, Canada writes: Brent Wilkins from Canada writes: I'm near the Alabama border. How long to I have to pack my stuff and gather up the family before I'm overrun by Russians?

    Damn, I'm supposed to go to Atlanta tomorrow. Think I can make the trip safely?

    ---

    Oh, you are so clever. Yes a country and a state in the US have the same name. Just think that up? Good boy. Feel better now that you have made your joke?

    Why don't you go outside and play now. The adults are trying to have a conversation.

    Too bad some people think that a shooting war where people get killed is a source of humour.
  34. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Freakin' Neocons and that damn Bush!
    Why con't they leave these people alone?
    Damned illegal invasion!

    Wait a minute...
  35. Beatriz Perez-Sanchez from Toronto, Canada writes: Murphy Red from Jonestown, please explain your use of the word 'hatred'. Many people (the Polish government in exile and the Czechs in particular) sounded the alarm with regard to Stalin. Unfortunately, their voices were drowned out in the spirit of 'unity' amongst the Allies at the end of World War II. The aims of Stalin and the Soviet government were very transparent to those who chose to see. I am surprised that you have chosen to use ad hominen 'arguments' instead of refuting my statements with facts. I should have expected more from someone of your intellectual calibre.
  36. Alex Black from United States writes: Georgia begins to shell civilian populations and the Russian Peacekeepers. Russia responds by sending in troops and armour and aircraft. Georgia complains about a 'Russian invasion'...

    This will be over by tomorrow. Russia will roll over Georgia like a sumo wrestler on a toddler. Saakashvili will be hanged in front of South Ossetia's people, and they will rejoice. South Ossetia will be fully independent by next week, just wait....
  37. COASTER--- EAST THAT IS from Canada writes: Canada and the allies are doing the same things in Afgan , who are we to criticize Russia for wanting some fun.
  38. GM Blogger from Canada writes: Oh my God. Chris E. is here again - infact he is on practically every board - with his anti-immigration, anti-multiculturalism rants.

    Freedom of speech is good thing .. that way we know who the fools are.

    ----
  39. dave ross from Canada writes: Interesting timing - just as the Olympics start.
  40. Clive Gingell from Canada writes: IF I'm interpreting her post correctly, (and I think I am), then I agree with Beatriz Perez-Sanchez's earlier post; the Soviets operated on a blatant policy of realpolitik, and everyone knew that their motives, regardless of rhetoric or hyperbole, (which only sucked in the naive, leftist leaning sheeple), were based on nothing more noble than acquiring and maintaining control.
  41. dave ross from Canada writes: Also, ironical fact for all the Stalin ranters...Josef Stalin was born in Georgia.
  42. He Shoots! He Scores! from Chicago, United States writes: 'B A from Ottawa, Canada writes: Should be a good show. Guaranteed to spike the price of oil though. '

    Apparently not. Crude is down $4ish to $116ish as I write. Very strange.
  43. Yury K from Scarborough, Canada writes: I wouldn't be so quick to blame Russia. It is Georgia that clearly violates the UN mandate, no matter how valid their claims to the territory of South Ossetia are. Basically, it is almost the same situation as with Kosovo - with one exception. It was Georgia who refused South Ossetia's right to be an autonomous territory WITHIN independent Georgia when South Ossetia voted for it ... and at that time it broke into the war. Now Georgia is eager to have autonomous South Ossetia - but it's way too late, more than 15 years passed since the time Georgians had and missed their chance.
    And then do not forget that North Ossetia which, by the way, enjoys its autonomous status within Russia, is populated with the exact same national group - and they have blood ties, if you know what I mean ... and blood ties is the foundation for relations between people on the Caucasus.
    Finally, Russians are merely doing peace-keeping, aren't they? Hundreds of people, populating Tskhinvali, have been killed as the result of Georgian attacks, it is the confirmed fact. And if Russians have teeth to carry on their peace-keeping mission better than Canadians did in former Yugoslavia - then it's to the benefit of the peaceful population of South Ossetia.
  44. Lyn Alg from Canada writes: Imagine the extreme arrogance of the American hegemonists telling the Russians to exercise peaceful means to settle their dispute. America, the land filled with Jesus-Freaks, offering sage counsel to the rest of the world. God bless America! They desperately need it !!
  45. C. T. from Russia right now., Russian Federation writes: The U.S.S.R. collapsed because it was a failed experiment, not just economically, but because ethnicity and self-determination is so important to people. The central government was unable to convince Georgians, Ukranians, Lithuanians and others to subordinate themselves to become 'Soviet Man'. The U.S.S.R. was one of the longest modern experiments in multiculturalism, and it failed utterly. (Too bad, Trudeau) Next up, the EU, and Canada. In fact, if you notice in the articles on this subject, some of them actually point out the fact that Moscow (Russia) had controlled Georgia for approximately 200 years. That is somewhat more then 100 years longer then the 'SOVIET UNION' existed. So before you go on a USSR rant, make sure you actually read your history. In addition if you look back at a map from between 1700 - 1750 you will notice that KIEV the capital of Ukraine, is actually in Russia and Kiev was a major part of Russia, not Ukraine. If you look at an official map of the time, Ukraine doesn't even exist. IF anyone cares to recall, stalin, who so many see as and evil communist from ww2, was born in GORI, GEORGIA of all places, so it certainly isn't the Russians trying to make everyone else the 'SOVIET MAN' as you see it.
  46. kevin o'connor from Toronto, Canada writes: Bizarre - why would little georgia pick a (military) fight with the russians? I know they are at odds over these provinces (which should have the right to peacefully seperate, if they choose to in a democratic way, a la quebec) but if I had an argument with, say, mike tyson, I'd be all for diplomacy, perhaps challenging him to a debate, but i sure as heck wouldn't say 'OK mike lets you and me step into the ring and settle this'. Either Georgia is very stupid or I smell a 'gulf of tonkin' rat.
  47. Lyn Alg from Canada writes: Re CT from Russia: It sure is refreshing to read, for once, a posting from someone who appears to be well versed in Russian history rather than presenting an illogical and supercilious rant like most other postings.Pray tell CT, what are you doing on a site like this? You are simply much too intelligent to be here.
  48. Dana Cruickshank from Canada writes: Regardless of who is right or wrong in the situation, I think this highlights how the world is still a very volitile place, and that the Russians won't hesitate (like the rest of us) to use force.

    This is an interesting situation because Georgia is almost a full member of NATO. What will/should be the western response? What if this happened two years later and Georgia actually was a member of NATO? We would have to help them defend themselves.

    Russia is looking to reassert its power on the world stage, but not many countries are respecting it (and maybe rightfully so), but Russia doesn't hesitate to commit troops. What if this were in a place that is more important to most western people than Georgia?
  49. Phil L. from Calgary, Canada writes: Umm... hello ???

    Does anyone else not think this could be potentially very serious?

    Wake up people.
  50. Bob McDonald from Canada writes: Wake up, Canada. These events should make NATO seriously reconsider their policy of inviting former Iron Curtain countries into their club. If Georgia was a member of NATO, then Canada would have to send troops to battle the Russians in Ossetia - right now.

    The Russians are in Ossetia because they want to discourage NATO. If NATO wisely takes the hint, the Russian need to pursue this conflict would evaporate. After all, Ossetia is not an important property to Moscow. Georgia should not be part of NATO, it should remain a buffer state.
  51. B A from Ottawa, Canada writes: He Shoots! He Scores! from Chicago, United States writes:

    Apparently not. Crude is down $4ish to $116ish as I write. Very strange.

    He Shoots! He Scores! Give it a day or two. The pipeline is along a southerly route because of this potential probelm. Azerbaijhan had a similar issue with the pipeline planning when looking at the Nagornoh-Karabah region. I can't imagine this conflict lasting more than a week before the Russians decide to take a potshot at the line, or somewhere near to it. It's just too tempting a target. They shoot. The price of oil goes up and as a net exporter they profit. Their problem will be Turkey itself. One of the reasons for the line in the first place was that Turkey was limiting Russian oil tanker traffic through the Bosphorus when they were coming from Novorossysk. Turkey relies on the Dardanelles as a major source of income. One disabled or sunken tanker could close the straits (at their narrowest for shipping traffic they are only 700 metres wide). Ceyhan fixed this by being on the Mediterranean. Also Turkey's making a bundle off the CPC.
  52. C. T. from Russia right now., Russian Federation writes: brian silva========

    the russians (stalin) brought about and supported the biggest butcher to have yet graced our earth, mr. mao tse tung. and stalin was a piece himself. ===========

    send my regards to Hitler, and don't forget Stalin. Just so you know, Hitler was ideologically opposite of Communist (soviets).

    Simply put, You don't know what you are talking about Brian, read some history books. STALIN wasn't Russian, he was born in GORI, GEORGIA.

    In addition, I'm not sure what you mean by 'unless you're looking to get your old Pravda job back' when you reduce yourself to personal slants on other posters, but the word PRAVDA actually means 'truth' in Russian. So before you go showing how little you actually know about history, perhaps you should do what you tell other people and 'go back to your stinking hole, open up a book and learn a bit of history. ' because you don't seem to know much about it yourself.
  53. Yury K from Scarborough, Canada writes: Bob McDonald from Canada writes: The Russians are in Ossetia because they want to discourage NATO.
    ---
    I thought we were in the former Yugoslavia because we wanted to protect people over there ... seriously, why do you think that Russians ALWAYS want to discourage us???? It is a cliche ... too bad, it is the first thing that comes to mind
  54. Paul F. from Toronto, Canada writes: Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes: Freakin' Neocons and that damn Bush! Why con't they leave these people alone? Damned illegal invasion! Wait a minute... ---- Actually the US DOES have a hand in this. Clearly, the US has been devoting real resources to train Georgian troops and moreover the US Secret Service was involved in a crackdown on counterfeit ring in South Ossetia. Also, Georgia is the 3rd largest contingent in the Bush's little adventure in Iraq, after the US and Britain. For a tiny country, that is quite an achievement. Clearly Georgia is seeking to be close to the Western alliance to hold off the power of a neighbour many times its size. But Georgia's invasion of South Ossetia would seem foolish on the face of it. Did they expect Russia not to respond to the killing of its peacekeepers? Or the forced evacuation of its citizens from South Ossetia? Clearly, the US was consulted before hand to see what their response would be. Why is the US and EU not recognizing the clearly expressed desire of the Ossetians to not be part of Georgia? The have voted on this TWICE since the breakup of the USSR. That is far more official than what the Kosovars ever did. And I don't think the Kosovars would have gotten a 99% result in favor of independence. Why does the US put out a statement calling on 'all' sides to end the violence, when it is clear the Georgians launched an attack on South Ossetia while the world is paying attention to the Olympics? This even thought the Georgian army has basically told the Ossentians to leave their county. Not exactly a condemnation of aggression. Clearly, the US was consulted and the did not object to the move.
  55. ryan danielczak from Canada writes: Thank you, dave ross. In fact, Stalin was not only born in Georgia but was also an ethnic Georgian, born Josef Vissarionovich Dzugashvili (spelling variations will occur due to the transliteration between alphabets). The caustic nature of most posts here indicates, to me at least, a general lack of wide historical perspective. Never mind the USSR; this is probably a game of chicken between Moscow and Washington over energy corridors. While Russia is no stranger to provacations and utterly cynical geopolitical manouevres, the offensive launched by Georgia on this occasion has all the hallmarks of sneak attack. Calling for a ceasefire and then launching a concentrated attack the next day under the pretext of response to Russian bombing. . . If that were true, then what would invading S. Ossetia accomplish? I'm sure Russian warplanes aren't there. The timing to coincide with Putin's absence, thereby putting Medvedev, perceived as a dove, to the test? Get real. Georgia knows they cannot win a direct conflict with Russia. Only Washington could have given the okay. There will be a backroom deal between Moscow- Washington.
  56. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Those are some good lookin' tanks.
    I wonder how they's do with an Abrams?

    Iraq had Russian tanks.
    Not so good.

    Iraq shouldn't have armed itself with 99.6% Russian, French and Chinese armaments.

    They should have bought American.
  57. sean smith from Canada writes: Its great to read some intelligent posts who are seeing through the spin and hypocrisy of Georgia's aggression and the overwhelming level of support (99%) for South Ossetian independence. The only difference between Georgia's actions and Serbia's in Kosovo is that Georgia is a western puppet, so therefore our corporate media and governments will switch the propaganda terms around to paint the Georgians as the 'freedom fighters' and the Ossetians / Russians as 'ethnic cleansing' villains.

    Of course the usual sheep will fall for it but its nice to see more people becoming aware of the propaganda we are spoon fed.


  58. Joseph Bloggins from Canada writes: C. T. from Russia right now., Russian Federation says 'send my regards to Hitler, and don't forget Stalin. Just so you know, Hitler was ideologically opposite of Communist (soviets).'

    Uh, no....that is in fact false. They were relatively close in idealogy...they just wore different colored jack boots.

    'We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.' --Adolf Hitler

    (Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)'
  59. NWT Knifer from Yellowknife, Canada writes: Russia now shows it is nothing more than a puppet of Iran!

    Georgia is a good ally of the USA. There are even US troops in that country
    I think the Russians are now into this far more deeper than they ever thought!!

    Bush is going to strike and Iran is going to pay!
  60. Beatriz Perez-Sanchez from Toronto, Canada writes: Yes, Clive, you have interpreted my post correctly. Thanks for your comments.
  61. C. T. from Russia right now., Russian Federation writes: Just a few facts for the ignorant people who seem to be populating the readership of the G and M online. Russia has every RIGHT to protect it's citizens, and since the majority of people in the Georgian region in question are in fact Russian citizens, with Russian Passports, Russia is perfectly within it's rights to send as many troops as is necessary to ensure the safety of it's citizens. In addition, Russian Peace Keeping forces commanders have confirmed their barracks have been targeted by Georgian heavy artillery, that and the fact Georgian officials are claiming they have shot down Russian fighter craft above Georgian airspace are clearly provocation on the Georgian part, and to the best of my knowledge that would be an outright act of war by any 'WESTERN' standard. To have your airforce attacked, and your ground soldiers acting on a peacekeeping mission which is officially recognized by the international community is certainly a declaration of war that no western government would accept. Georgia has killed civilians ,with all likelyhood would be Russian citizens aswell. They have attacked Russian peace keeping soldiers, and claim to have actively targeted Russian airforces. I wonder what the USA or what England would do under the same circumstances? Do not go on about a people who you know nothing about, a situation you know nothing about, and above all, try to make sure you actually use some truth to what you are saying. All the personal slander and insults do nothing but debase the conversation at hand, and a lack of facts and reason to your arguements show you simply are not capable of such reasoning.
  62. Crash Bear Heads from Canada writes:
    @Paul F. writes: '...the Georgians launched an attack on South Ossetia...'

    Is that possible, to attack yourself? South Ossetia is a province of Georgia. What am I missing here, Paul?
  63. C. T. from Russia right now., Russian Federation writes: JOSEPH::: I BEG TO DISAGREE.... AMERICAN DEMOCRATS AND CANADIAN LIBERALS AND NEW DEMOCRATS HOLD MANY OF THE SOCIALIST VIEWS OF HITLER'S NAZI AND STALIN'S COMMUNISTS. THAT DOES NOT MAKE THEM EITHER--------------- DEFINITIONS FROM WIKI--------------- Communism is the idea of a free society with no division or alienation, where humanity is free from oppression and scarcity. A communist society would have no governments, countries, or class divisions --------------- Nazism, often related to National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus),[1][2][3][4] refers primarily to the ideology and practices of the Nazi Party under Adolf Hitler; and the policies adopted by the government of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945, a period also known as the Third Reich.[5][6][7][8] The official name of the party was Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei[9] (NSDAP) — “National Socialist German Workers’ Party”. The Nazis were one of several historical groups that used the term National Socialism to describe themselves, and in the 1920s they became the largest such group. Nazism is generally considered by scholars to be a form of fascism, and while it incorporated elements from both political wings, it formed most of its temporary alliances on the political right.[10] Among the key elements of Nazism were anti-parliamentarism, ethnic nationalism, racism, collectivism,[11][12] eugenics, antisemitism, opposition to economic liberalism and political liberalism,[13][14][12] anti-communism, and totalitarianism.---------------- Nazism was not a monolithic movement, but rather a (mainly German) combination of various ideologies and groups, sparked by anger at the Treaty of Versailles and what was considered to have been a Jewish/Communist conspiracy (known in the vernacular as the Dolchstoßlegende or “Stab-in-the-Back Legend”) to humiliate Germany at the end of the First World War.------------ PLEASE PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO THE FACT WHAT NAZISM WAS A RESPONSE AGAINST
  64. Thomas D'Arcy McGee from Canada writes:
    Putin and his KGB colleagues who now run Russia have never given up their dream of re-assembling the Soviet empire.

    Georgia was a part of the USSR (Stalin was a Georgian as was his equally brutal head of secret police Lavrentia Beria). Russia's involvement in this conflict has nothing to do with supporting the aspirations of South Ossetians and everything to do with destabilizing the pro-western Georgian government with the long term goal of absorbing Georgia back into a re-consituted USSR or Geater Russia.

    Pay attention at the Olympics and you will note that the national anthem of Russia has been changed back to the old Soviet Hymn, the (appropriately) funeralesque dirge we're all familiar with from past international hockey games and olympics.

    Putin - you can take the boy out of the KGB but you can never take the KGB out of the boy.
  65. Paul F. from Toronto, Canada writes: Here is what the Washington Post is reporting. That McCain is calling on RUSSIA to withdraw its troops from the battle? Here is the quote: 'Russia should immediately and unconditionally cease its military operations and withdraw all forces from sovereign Georgian territory.'

    Funny how the region that has voted 99% to leave Georgia (TWICE) and is subject now to an unprovoked major miliary incursion where hundreds of Ossetians (who are also Russian citizens) are being killed is only refered to as 'sovereign Georgian territory.' Guess McCain is ok with the invasion of South Ossetia.

    The role of the US in this conflict is becoming clearer.
  66. C. T. from Russia right now., Russian Federation writes: Thomas D'Arcy McGee from Canada writes: Pay attention at the Olympics and you will note that the national anthem of Russia has been changed back to the old Soviet Hymn, the (appropriately) funeralesque dirge we're all familiar with from past international hockey games and olympics. --------------------------- THE NEW RUSSIAN NATIONAL ANTHEM HAS THE SAME MUSIC THAT THE SOVIET ANTHEM DID..... IN FACT..... ALWAYS DID AFTER THEY CHANGED THE WORDS..... SO..... WHAT'S YOUR POINT?
  67. Paul F. from Toronto, Canada writes: Crash Bear Heads from Canada writes:
    @Paul F. writes: '...the Georgians launched an attack on South Ossetia...'

    Is that possible, to attack yourself? South Ossetia is a province of Georgia. What am I missing here, Paul?

    ----

    The Ossetians have never considered themselves part of Georgia. Even before the breakup of the Soviet Union Ossetians declared themselves to be an independent Soviet Republic. Two referendums since the collapse of the Soviet union indicated 98-99% of the population do not consider themselves part of Georgia. Up to this point it was even consider by Georgia to be an autonomous region of the country.

    The Georgian attack is an invasion, there is no other way to characterize it. Only someone who is blissfully ignorant of the history of the region can say otherwise.
  68. William Gartner from Montreal, Canada writes: George Nikitin, I'm 100% with you!
  69. Moshe Goldstein from Canada writes: ever since the clintons invented Kosovo, this kind of action is no longer improper. It's obvious that national borders and military agression for any reason is now legal since the un changed morality by endorsing preventive war for no reason.

    The un was invented specifically to stop the things it now stands squarely for like making it illegal to invade other countries, then making it legal to do so. The western nations including Russia are no longer rule-of-law countries out of disrespect for international law and because the un led them to this point.

    the un should be tried and charged and it's employees disbanded.
  70. Yury K from Scarborough, Canada writes: Hey, C. T. from Russia, since when South Ossetians are the citizens of Russia???? If they have been granted Russian passports, this does not mean that their territory is a part of Russia, period! So, while I can agree with a few things in your postings, I do not accept this one.
    Nevertheless, I have already shared my opinion on the developments of this dirty little war that Georgia has cowardly started. No need to repeat again ...
  71. Marina G. from Canada writes: Yury K from Scarborough, Canada writes: I wouldn't be so quick to blame Russia. It is Georgia that clearly violates the UN mandate, no matter how valid their claims to the territory of South Ossetia are. Yura, I wouldn’t be so quick to defend Russia. There is more in this than the UN mandate and territory claims by S. Ossetians. S. Ossetia was historically a Georgian land. Ossetians came there and were welcome by local Georgians allowing them to build settlements. Today this land is still dotted with Ossetian and Georgian villages like a chess board. One of the goals in this game is for South Ossetia to unite with North Ossetia under Russian jurisdiction. N. O. annexed huge chunk of neighbouring Ingushetia’s territory committing genocide to her population in 1991-92. Thousands of S. Ossetian gorillas crossed the border to fight in that war. They committed unspeakable horrible crimes to civilians with the blessing and protection of Russian troops. Russia is continuing her centuries long imperial aggressive occupational Caucuses policies. C. T. from Russia right now., Russian Federation writes: STALIN wasn't Russian, he was born in GORI, GEORGIA. Stalin was ossetian by his father’s side. North Ossetia was given large territories from neighbouring Ingushetia and Kabardino-Balkaria in 1944 while those nations entire population were all loaded into cattle trucks and shipped to North Kazakhstan. 2/3 of their population died in transit in midwinter and during severe conditions of the settlements. Russia is continuing her centuries long imperial aggressive occupational Caucuses policies.
  72. steve allan from Canada writes: What a sickening provocation by Georgia. They did this deliberately to coincide with the Olympic Games.

    The leader of the country is nothing more than a mafiosi and I hope the Russians capture him and deal with him the 'old fashioned' way!
  73. R L from Canada writes: Disgusting actions by Georgia!

    South Ossetia is mostly inhabited by Russian citizens. It is right for Russia to move in to defend their citizens from this military attack by Georgia.
  74. Jeremy Debling from Canada writes: The fact that Georgia is the aggressor in this situation and the US is calling them to pull back and employ peaceful negotiations only shows their true intentions of fighting Russia by any means and through any so-called ally. The fact that Russian peacekeepers and Russia planes have been attacked and the US ignores these facts shows their blatant hypocrisy.

    It's okay for the US to bomb Serbia because Kosovo wants to be independent, but when the South Ossetians vote Twice for independence, well let's just ignore that.

    So Mr. Bush, McCain & Obama, when does the bombing campaign of Georgia start??
  75. sean smith from Canada writes: As predicted the neo-con sheep are out in force spewing their ignorance.

    Joe Bloggins no matter how you spin it, Hitler was a fascist which is a disease of the right. He rose to power with the backing of Germany (and America's) top capitalists(llok up 'Profits uber alles'). The only party that tried to prevent him assuming dictatorial powers when he enacted the Enabling Act of 1933 (look it up) was the Social Democrats (as the Communists were already under arrest). He had the backing of the conservative German National People's Party and the liberal Centre Party. That's why Martin Niemoeller wrote in his famous poem 'First they came' that it was the Communists, Socialists and Trade Unionists who were first on Hitler's list of purges. Your attempt to paint Hitler as a leftist is historical revisionism of the worst kind.

    NWT Knifer, Iran has nothing to do with this. Please spare us your Faux News fantasies (which I'm sure are also blaming Bin Laden and the Taliban too).
  76. globefan Eh from Canada writes: This is about strategic advantage and yet another pipeline of great importance to the west and who controls it.

    The people in the area have been and are simply pawns in a much greater struggle for power. And they count for not very much..it's history repeating itself.
  77. Ian B from Canada writes: The AP has not translated the words of the Georgian president right. When he talked about a perfect time to attack a small country while everyone is on holidays, he referred to Russia attacking Georgia. The AP did it again and it is not funny any more.
  78. The Work Farce from Canada writes: One war leads to another and another. And each war seems to be bigger and longer than the one before. Amazing the world is still turning on its axis. But, hey, didn't Ronald Reagan defeat those evil Russkis once and for all then turn Russia into a McDonald's capitalist democracy paradise in the image of the US? How ungrateful they are. O, dear, what can the matter be?
  79. Yury K from Scarborough, Canada writes: Marina G. from Canada - sorry to say but the long and bloody history which you are rightfully describing is not what we are discussing in this thread. We are discussing the attack of Georgia and its consequences, not an attack of S.Ossetian or Russians on Georgia. Perhaps, if the respected G&M decided to publish an article on the history of that region, we might discuss it ... but not in the format of this particular thread.
  80. Crash Bear Heads from Canada writes: Isn't this a very similar situation to what the Chinese are doing to Tibet?

    Decades ago, the USSR moved many Russians into the border colonies, like Georgia, ostensibly to overwhelm the native population. Saying that South Ossetia is Russian is being blissfully ignorant of the history of the region.
  81. Runnin Rebel from Canada writes:
    Yesterday Putin was at Solzhenitsyn's funeral today rolls into Georgia, better fire up the Gulags.
  82. Ian B from Canada writes: If Russia successfully drives Georgians from Ossetia, it will claim that the latter is an independent country based on its ethnic make up. It is time for Georgia to ask for an expedited admission to NATO before it lost all its territories to its large imperial neighbor.
  83. R L from Canada writes: Even though Georgia was the aggressor that launched a full scale attack against South Ossetia, the madman John McCain is backing Georgia and demanding that Russia withdraw unconditionally... wow... and as for Barack Obama, well Obama has never heard of a country called Georgia and will have to consult with the lobbyists, AIPAC, etc. as to what he should say (they will just tell him to say falsehoods about Russia in order to look 'tough', which he will gladly do).
  84. D. R. from Canada writes: Wait a second, what happened with Kosovo? They were allowed to separate and South Ossetia is not. USA is playing double standards game, but this time with ‘fire’ and they will get burned really badly.
  85. NWT Knifer from Yellowknife, Canada writes: Iran your days are numbered!

    Russia your puppet has step over the line

    In China another Puppet of Iran your gons are cracking down on Christinas trying to pray

    Bush is gong to do what God has called him to do!
  86. Ian B from Canada writes: R L from Canada writes: Disgusting actions by Georgia! South Ossetia is mostly inhabited by Russian citizens.

    >>>>>

    So what? This particular thinking worries me a lot. Because tomorrow you will bring up citizenship of the Mississauga or Scarborough population.
  87. Andrei Vidal from New York, United States writes: Hypocrasy on all sides. Russia complains of NATO violating Serbia's territorial integrity but does the same to Georgia. NATO (US and UK) say Kosovars have the right to secede but don't support Ossetions in their quest to do so.

    But the bottom line is that Kosovo was the precedent for this action. Already hundreds may be killed. Is this the beginning?
  88. Ian B from Canada writes: Russia started this on the first day of the Olimpic. By the last day all this will be over and no Georgian will be left behind in Ossetia.
  89. Strong North from Canada writes: I blame US and NATO for all this kind conflicts - they started this by letting Kosovo to go independent thus Russia dare to do the similiar as well now.
  90. Ian B from Canada writes: Paul F. from Toronto, Canada writes: The Georgian attack is an invasion

    >>>>>

    How can one invade his own country. The more valid question is what the Russian tanks are doing there.
  91. Ian B from Canada writes: The citizenship of the Ossetian population has nothing to do with anything and can not justify Russian agression. As we know well in Canada, some countries never allow you to drop their citizenship. Now we know why.
  92. Thurthston Thithterthinthon from Canada writes: More death. Aren't we cozy over here in our little corner. How long will it last?
  93. Marina G. from Canada writes: Yuri, you can discuss the Georgian attack (on Russia, perhaps?) if you see it this way. Sorry, but I see it differently. I see it as an act of Russian aggressive politics in the region. This conflict is a direct result of these historical policies. Russia provided the citizens of an independent state with Russian passports and since then has been provoking Georgia into military actions on the pretence of defending Russian citizens. What a joke! Georgia is defending its constitutional and historical borders.
  94. w. sandham from Toronto, Canada writes: Mother Russia will never kneel
  95. frank arnold from pickering, Cana