Skip navigation

 Login or Register | Member Centre

Diplomatic whirlwind begins as West presses Russia to pull out

MATTI FRIEDMAN

The Associated Press

Latest comment posted at 12:31 PM EST 15/08/08

Regional tensions soar as Russia threatens Poland over U.S. missile shield, tells Georgia to forget about regaining control of rebellious regions; Saakashvilli announces draft ceasefire deal signed ...Read the full article

This conversation is closed

  1. Paul S. Boyer from Seabright, Canada writes: The Russian claims of 'genocide' by Georgia are being disproved by direct observation of foreign correspondence. Russia still claims that it has no troops in Gori, in direct contradiction to observed facts. UN officials have even been robbed of their cars in plain sight of Russians in Gori, with these sanctimonious bullies doing nothing to intervene. See today's article in the Wall Street Journal.
    Putin's Russian-Mafia regime is showing its true colors, and can never be trusted. The events in Georgia are partly the responsibility of Germany and other Western countries who think that their economic ties to Russia are more important than the security of all non-Russians everywhere.
  2. Brian Dell from Stockholm, Sweden writes: Russia complains of western media bias yet cluster bombs journalists. See
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKl00kZRRp4
    and
    http://www.humanrightswatch.org/english/docs/2008/08/14/georgi19625.htm
  3. Brian Dell from Stockholm, Sweden writes: Turks under fire:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSFRiHbFEtg
  4. Frank Lee My Dears I Don't Give A Damn from Toronto, Canada writes:
    Shades of pre WWII capitulation to the neo-Hitler? And we know what happened then.
  5. Globe Reader from Toronto, Canada writes: Morning guys. Starting your shift ?
  6. George Smith from Canada writes: Hopefully the Georgian people will think before voting for an idiot next time.

    What were they expecting by attacking South Ossetia?
  7. George Smith from Canada writes: re: Paul S. Boyer from Seabright, Canada writes.

    You post is inaccurate as well as biased.

    The latest Human Rights Watch report has not ruled out a Georgian genocide against South Ossetia and has concluded that there is evidence of a massive Georgian bombing and shelling in South Ossetia that occurred last week.

    Since there was no warning given to the civilian population beforehand and the attacks occurred in the middle of the night, it is obvious that they were not concerned with civilian casualties. This appears to be a war crime.

    However, the Russians have responded in an overly harsh manner, so they should be reprimanded as well.

    I still believe that the Georgian people bit off a little more than they can chew, just like the Hezbollah in Lebanon when they kidnapped those 2 Israelis. Israel was just waiting for an excuse to go in and was fully prepared, just like the Russians were in this instance.
  8. Globe Reader from Toronto, Canada writes: George Smith from Canada. Most likely plan was to take over S.O. capital and drive ossetian population up north to North Ossetia. More 'Lebensraum' for Georgian people.
  9. George Smith from Canada writes: Sometimes I think that ammunition must have a 'best before date' or the warehouses are full, so it has to be used up.
  10. Brian Dell from Stockholm, Sweden writes: George Smith, Human Rights Watch says that it is a 'massive Russia propaganda machine' that is advancing those 'war crime' allegations of yours.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/14/georgia.russia1
  11. Globe Reader from Toronto, Canada writes: Brian Dell from Stockholm, that's what Tom Parfitt (author of the article) says. I cannot find anything close to this statement on HRW site.
  12. della baird from vancouver, Canada writes: dee vancouver: this idiot from such a beautiful place as georgia was needs to get his 88's straight. what he did to south ossetia for a smidgen of power,is akin to the antics of a kid in a school yard. ' na,na, na, na, na.' 'you can't touch me because my 'friends' will beat you up.' now he's crying because his friends are proving once again to be of the fair weather kind. only this time they are in a catch 22 situation. good on them. not so good for the rest of us. was it worth it you punk? they taught you well down there, did'nt they.
  13. Globe Reader from Toronto, Canada writes: I hardly hear anything from the Russian media/government. Seems 'massive Russia propaganda machine' doesn't work (or exists).
  14. Brian Dell from Stockholm, Sweden writes: Globe Reader, everytime the Globe and Mail indicates Harper said something are you going to doubt it if it doesn't also appear on the prime minister's website?

    Anyway, while you were on HRW's website you would have seen that your claim about who's seeking 'Lebensraum' is completely backwards:
    One counterintelligence officer of the South Ossetian forces claimed to Human Rights Watch that: “We burned these houses. We want to make sure that the Georgians can’t come back, because if they do come back, this will be a Georgian enclave again and this should not happen.”
  15. Globe Reader from Toronto, Canada writes: Brian Dell from Stockholm. This South Ossetian officer was at least honest. Georgia had the same intentions, but prefered to call its attack a 'restore of the constitutional order'
    Difference between Ossetians and Georgians - Georgians attacked first (at least this time).
    And yes, I'd like to see statement you've mentioned on HRW website.
  16. George Smith from Canada writes: re; Brian Dell from Stockholm, Sweden,

    I fail to see your of arguing semantics of he said she said they said. The situation is still very fluid on the ground and there hasn't been sufficient time or resources to properly investigate all these claims. There is some evidence of fake video on youtube (same actors in three different video) claims of Russian or Georgian snipers, with no evidence of uniforms, etc.

    So, in the very least it is premature to lay 100% of the blame on either party.

    My belief is they are both to blame for causing this mess, but the Georgians made a very large miscalculation in starting this conflict and are now paying a big price for it.

    Wouldn't you agree with this assessment
  17. Glynn W from Canada writes: Sounds like the president of Georgia is intent on dragging the rest of the world into this - claiming everything from genocide to the rape of children (my addition) by the Russians. How far will this madman go and how far will the other madman in the US be willingly conned? That is the million dollar question!
  18. Brian Dell from Stockholm, Sweden writes: Glynn W, where were your 'madman' charges when Putin was claiming a 'complete genocide', saying 'civilians were torched, sawed to pieces and rolled over by tanks'?
  19. Jan Burton from Toronto, Canada writes: I hate it how Hitler references and charges are 'genocide' are tossed around these days as if they aren't loaded terms.

    Don't like some tin-pot dictator? Call him the next Hitler!

    Is some country you don't like waging war? Charge them with 'genocide' or 'ethnic cleaning!'
  20. Kass Arctic from Canada writes: Morning, all!

    George Smith from Canada writes: 'Hopefully the Georgian people will think before voting for an idiot next time.' ------- And vote for one Putin has approved of instead? Democracy is such that people can votte for whomever they like. Now old days, back in those parts, you really did get a ballot with clear instructions as to how to make a cross next to the one name on it. :) ------------'What were they expecting by attacking South Ossetia?' --------- I wonder if they were (admittedly a bit naively) hoping to get some control over the situation on their territory.

    Globe Reader - I guess there is no way to make you see that Georgia had an internal situation going on, and Russia was the outside force, is there?

    Glynn W - you think the president of Georgia shouldnät mention the rapes? Really? I guess when you say he's just claiming these things to get the whole world involved, you have some first hand knowledge? THANK GOD, for days the world has been interested in what's really going on but the Russian military hasn't let journalists and ambassadors into towns and areas. hankfully, we now have you - tell us exactly what happened?
  21. Brian Dell from Stockholm, Sweden writes: In any case, South Ossetia will evidently remain cleased of Georgians going forward, since
    Georgian refugees, who live in South Ossetia and fled the region during last week's fighting, will not be allowed to return to their homes in the breakaway region, the president of South Ossetia said
    http://en.rian.ru/world/20080815/116056096.html
  22. Alex White from Canada writes: 'Moscow attacked Georgia with troops, tanks, planes and warships last week after Tbilisi sent a force into South Ossetia to try to take back control over the province, which threw off Georgian control in a war in the 1990s'

    WOW....wasn't it the other way around?

    It's sad what we have to read these days
  23. Kass Arctic from Canada writes: Alex - what to you mean by 'other way around'? You mean Georgia attacked Russia? As far as I can tell, and all parties seem to agree, Georgians have not crossed any international borders during all this?
  24. COASTER--- EAST THAT IS from Canada writes: This part of the world has always been a very unsettled place , the two world wars were started in the old world , mind you it took the new world to stop them , but either way , its a problem for the people of the region to deal with. This is Europes chance to take control or watch another cold war start up and its those people over there who are in the greatest danger , we will hear about it from our leaders how we must fight this tyranny , but in the end its not up to us to decide how other people act and live , its up to those affected to decide. Russia is just trying to get back on the world stage , must have been hard for the old leadership to watch their country fall to the depths they fell to , at one time the world would hang on their words , but after the collapse of the soviet union they were more like a third world country , now that oil is filling their bank accounts guess they missed the old days , sad but true , eh. The USA is showing them they still will stare them down , not so sure if thats a good idea , but thats the USA's place in the world , they are the peace keepers , or they were , 911 changed a lot of their outlook on the world , and really can you blame them , but if the USA does take on Russia , it may just lead to world war three , and if that happens , well we wont be so worried about global warming will we. PS-Quit the name calling here , its not going to help things.
  25. Brian Dell from Stockholm, Sweden writes: Kass Arctic, haven't you gotten the memo? The MSM, which most certainly includes Reuters, doesn't tell it like it is. For the 'truth', you have to go to 'alternative' sources. Russian sources are more reliable because are less likely to push the corporate, neo-con agenda.
  26. Kass Arctic from Canada writes: great link, Brian - I like this part best, 'Earlier Kokoity said during a press conference with the Abkhaz leader in Moscow that no Georgian peacekeepers or international observers would be allowed in South Ossetia.' No international observers will be allowed? Why is that I wonder?
  27. Alex Peterson from Canada writes: OK, if Russians attacked Georgia/S.O. so why do the refugees from south Ossetia go to Russia and why does Russia accept and help them? Why isn't there any information regarding the nature of the conflict, specifically, the fact that it's been in effect for more then a century? The only good/useful thing you get these days from a news paper is census data, reporters seem to be copy-pasting reports instead of doing research.
  28. Glynn W from Canada writes: Jan Burton - I don't know about you but it does seem like there is a massive news blackout or media manipulation going on here by all 3 sides, namely Georgia, Russia and us...so I am inclined to start from a perspective of disbelief on the outset just in case I get sold another WMD story...and yes I was sold. They have always told me to learn from history personal or otherwise!
  29. Glynn W from Canada writes: Kass Arctic - If you noticed my post I said that rape was my addition - a foreshadowing of what might yet be said....so don't say I didn't say it when it is indeed used!
  30. Kass Arctic from Canada writes: Alex - the reporters aren't allowed into the troubled areas to do any research, isn't that part of the problem? And yes, for as long as it was just S-O haggling against georgia, the world paid little attention. When a third party interfered the real news started.

    Brian - yes, I stand corrected. My favourite is now interfax - they seem the most talented in turning black into white without even blinking. :)
  31. Tesla Pupin from Wallis And Futuna Islands writes: Brian Dell from Stockholm, Sweden writes: ...'The MSM, which most certainly includes Reuters, doesn't tell it like it is. For the 'truth', you have to go to 'alternative' sources. '...

    ===

    Absolutely no need for 'sarcasm' as this statement is actually correct.
  32. Wai T from Canada writes: > Sounds like the president of Georgia is intent
    > on dragging the rest of the world into this -
    > claiming everything from genocide to the rape
    > of children (my addition) by the Russians.

    Georgia could be making a true claim. The trick to never mentioned it was done by the Russia.

    That's the reality of war; there is no right or wrong, just chaos. Frankly, I doubt the rapists care if the victims are from Georgia or Russia.
  33. Kass Arctic from Canada writes: Glynn W - sorry, since the news actually does say rape as well, I didn't realize you thought you had added it yourself. :)
  34. Kass Arctic from Canada writes: Wai T - I doubt any of the rape victims are from Russia, seeing as this war takes place solely on Georgian territory, and the only ones there from Russia are the military... oops, I meant peacekeepers, of course.

    Tesla - Interfax (a well-read Russian source) yesterday made 46 Estonian humanitarian aid volunteers that went to Georgia as part of citizen initiative into government-sent military - how exactly can anyone expect me to believe anything they publish from now on (not that I did even before)?
  35. Springfire From ShenZheng from China writes: Georgians started this war. Russians are right in punishing them. One gets whatever he/she seeded for.
  36. Brian Dell from Stockholm, Sweden writes: Alex Peterson: the refugees want to get out of the conflict zone. Thousands of South Ossetians fled south into Georgia, this despite the fact all of Georgia is a potential cluster bomb target whereas nothing in Russia has been attacked.

    If the Russians are so keen on helping refugees, why is the United Nations High Commission for Refugees getting carjacked at Russian checkpoints?
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121869590082940169.html

    The UN itself, on its website, complains that
    large parts of the conflict-affected area, particularly South Ossetia and the Gori region, remain, for the most part, inaccessible to humanitarian organizations due to ongoing insecurity, lawlessness and other constraints.
    Now who is reponsible for security behind Russian military lines?
  37. Moshe Goldstein from Scarborough, Canada writes: I see, get an organization to accuse them of them of using a cluster bomb. That will get us outraged agaist Russia.

    But wait, why was the paper endorsing the Israeli's in lebII and why didn't they make a stink about the idf using hundreds of them on civilians, and still considers it anti semetic to talk about????

    I would like to hear from a senior editor, but not the editor in cheif, why the globe takes a position of endorsing some wars and reporting from a perspective that divides sides rather than report on true geopolitical chess moves and their implication. Why pretend geopolitics is not a globe pet issue, and why not just tell us the globes global geopolitical preference. Why beat around the bush?
  38. Michael Rudin from NY, United States writes: Change the name Russia to the US and every anti US writer would be ranting. Instead, blame the US, see no problem with Russia that is going much farther than protecting “its people”, forget Chechnya, listen to Russian censored media and propaganda, refuse to listen to people in Georgia. Further, if it is alright for any majority ethnic group living in an area to breakaway, then in addition to the Russians to moving against Georgia to help S. Ossetia, the writers should have no problem using this method in all areas that the old Soviet Union moved Russians citizens. They should also support the Kurds, the Basques, Romanian’s Hungarians, Muslim Pomaks of Slavic origin, Baluchi minority in sw Pakistan & southeastern Iran, Moros of Mindanao in the southern Philippines and the Acehnese of Sumatra and many others. Of course is these groups must first be anti US.
  39. val tonik from toronto, Canada writes: The high jacking of the TV crew was done by people speaking Georgian or some local dialect, but not Russian. Russians would not do such a thing. They are the well organized army, the battalion, and not some forest fighters hiding in bushes causing trouble. That could be the sabotage by Georgians, because their weapon now is a baseless propaganda. Some years back, I've been to places where there were plenty of Georgians. And every night they would have knife fighting with each other or other locals, for no reason really. They like this kind of staff.

    And Saakashvilli is a neurotic idiot, and liar. I think it would be much better if Russians would go all the way to Tbilisi to capture him and place in a high security mental hospital, where he really belongs.
  40. Frank Lee My Dears I Don't Give A Damn from Toronto, Canada writes:
    If the Russians are truly 'peace keepers', where were they when South Ossetians dressed in para military outfits were robbing civilians and threatening and firing towards reporters? Video shows that. Or is it just 'western propaganda'?
    And, why are the 'peace keepers' destroying Georgian ships in port? Amazing how these 'peace keepers' arrived in such a sort time. Doesn't the UN require a lot of time to assemble a peace keeping contingent.
    But we must remember that 'Russian peace keeper' is an oxymoron.
  41. Lando Kalrissian from Red Deer, Canada writes: The US has been building to this for a long time. On the one hand, they wanted to sucker Russia into a quagmire just at the same time as American fleets proceed to positions near Iran to blockade it; but on the other hand they thought that Russia would not respond so decisively.

    One thought about the lingering Russian forces, wandering about the countryside: I suspect they are looking for secret caches of US and Israeli-supplied weapons intended to bog Russia down in a guerrilla war.

    This is all part of grand theatre, with the US wanting far more than resources for its own needs. It wants to control the supply of resources to everyone on the planet.
  42. god bless canada from Canada writes: from the latest news i have heared the russions were firing for 1 week from inside the south part of Ossetians . into Georgia hopping to get a responce from Georgia.after a week of small missle firing from the south Georgia started firing into the south. this was all done so that russio could come in. there is no way that russia just happened to have 1200 tanks sitting beside souther Ossetian.that is more tanke that they had in the whole time in afganistan plus 8,000 soldier if you think this was not planed weeks ago then you also believe in the tooth fairy and santa.we all thought iran was the one pulling the strings of war but i am beging to believe russia has had a plan for a while.this will be www3 no doubt as the usa now has agread to protect poland with us troups not like they did with there friends in georgia. this was a bad mistake of russia thinking because the usa was tied up in iraq and afganistan it would not take on the russia.there are plentey of us and europ troups to take this bear out there tecnology is still very old and falling apart it would oly be a short time maby 8 weeks of ground and pound before russia gave up and we will see it in the next 3 weeks
  43. Durward Saar from Canada writes: Putin is a goof and a genicidal coward that only picks fights he knows he can win easily.
    Soviet style punks, KGB spooks.
    Nuke the Kremlin....Twice.
  44. Whodat Singer from St. Catharines, Canada writes: Michael Rudin from NY.....How true, how true. I just wonder who will all these anti-American posters blame once GWB is gone.
  45. Globe Reader from Toronto, Canada writes: Here's a link to WP article, written by Gorbachev. Explains a lot about this conflict, I would recommend it to anybody interested in understanding this subject.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/11/AR2008081101372.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
  46. val tonik from toronto, Canada writes:
    That's right, the Russians new that Georgia is getting ready for an aggression. The presence of US army instructors, large shipments of weapons and increased aggressive rhetoric from madman saakashvilli, made them assemble 58th. battalion near the borders of south Ossetia to protect their interests in the region.
    Russians destroying Georgia military boats to disarm them as much as possible.

    At any rate This Russian intervention is kids play compare to the US bombings of Yugoslavia and Iraq, so for the US citizens here, please know your business and take care of it before accusing others.
  47. Moshe Goldstein from Scarborough, Canada writes: Agreed val, the best option for peace would see the russians at least surround the airport today and take control of that so they can inspect the us cargo. Then vertically envelop tblisi and capture Saakashvilli. Maybe the georgian president could be more diplomatic? I would like to see him in court defending the rocket attack on sleeping civilians.

    It's obvious that Putin is correct about this whole country being a project of the cia so Georgian sovereignty was lost already, they gave it up democratically. That's the danger here, allowing a cia non-natural government to become nato country, transforming the alliance into an aggresive eye-poker rather than a sleepy defence force. Canada would never join such an alliance and it's time Canada, Germany, France and Italy abandoned nato in an effort to isolate the united states, at least until they have a responsible government and end all their occupations.
  48. Kass Arctic from Canada writes: val tonik - 'Russians would not do such a thing.........I've been to places where there were plenty of Georgians. And every night they would have knife fighting with each other or other locals, for no reason really. They like this kind of staff.'

    ----- Nice touch, val. C'mon, I realize you're Russian, and probably a very nice person, but you have to admit each nationality has their good and bad people, and it's impossible for you to think Russians would all be good. I could tell you that in my experience (drunken)Russians act in the manner you describe but it'd be far from me to assume you're all like that.
  49. Rob Scheid from Canada writes: Good luck finding a non-bias mediator, everyone is looking after their own interests while the people between Russia and Georgia have gotten a death sentence.
  50. Mike Kot from Toronto, Canada writes: Not a single word about 2000 Ossetians who died as a result of Georgian action.. Not a single word about Georgia still not signing the cease fire agreement.. 11 Civilians dead in Gori - so much for the ethnic cleansing by the Russians! common, the Georgian president is a lyer, using the banners of democracy and freedom to commit genocide on the Ossetians.. If you want Russia to withdraw - sign the agreement first! The law and the ethics is on Russian side here.. The only thing that is against Russia is US-sponsored propaganda machine and the old stereotypes of the evil 'russkis'..
  51. Rob Scheid from Canada writes: Durward Saar, With that attitude, your just as bad as Putin.
  52. Lando Kalrissian from Red Deer, Canada writes: I forgot to mention two other reasons for the US-sponsored attack by Georgia on South Ossetia, to draw Russia in.
    One is to cover the big and dangerous news that US and Poland have just signed a deal to place US first-strike missiles in Poland; the other is that the US is in financial collapse. The latest blip in the dollar and oil price was due to temporary intervention by the 'President's Working Group on Financial Markets' to help Bush's propaganda war. But they can't hide the slide forever.
  53. Frank Lee My Dears I Don't Give A Damn from Toronto, Canada writes:
    Settle down val. And have a gin and tonik (sic).
    I love your '..been to places where there were plenty of Georgians. And every night they would have knife fighting with each other or other locals, for no reason really. They like this kind of staff' (sic). 'STAFF?' Well I guess if they like that kind of 'staff', they'd love camp staff even more? ; }o And I guess you should be thankful that you escaped from that kind of 'staff'?
    Wow. No ethnic hatred here. Maybe you could emigrate to Italy to help rid them of these pesky Roma?
    But do keep writing those cards and letters from skin-headquarters in Moscow, val.
  54. rahim ladha from montreal, Canada writes: George Bush said said that “bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century.”

    As much as I find his words welcomed in this Georgian Situation to bring back the peace, it is just funny to hear him say this, cause he used lots of bullying and intimidation to try to get coutnries in his side while invading Iraq, especially African countries who were revolving members of the UN Security Council, who were intimidated by being told US will cut all the aid to them fi they voted against IRaq Invasion..
  55. god bless canada from Canada writes: and this is the old style of kgb propogation nice to see we have one living in toronto maby you can move back home now that your country is waging a war they will lose

    ..val tonik from toronto, Canada writes: The high jacking of the TV crew was done by people speaking Georgian or some local dialect, but not Russian. Russians would not do such a thing. They are the well organized army, the battalion, and not some forest fighters hiding in bushes causing trouble. That could be the sabotage by Georgians, because their weapon now is a baseless propaganda. Some years back, I've been to places where there were plenty of Georgians. And every night they would have knife fighting with each other or other locals, for no reason really. They like this kind of staff.

    And Saakashvilli is a neurotic idiot, and liar. I think it would be much better if Russians would go all the way to Tbilisi to capture him and place in a high security mental hospital, where he really belongs.
  56. Mike Kot from Toronto, Canada writes: in 2006, Israelis kill over 1500 civilians in Lebanon for killing of the 3 soldiers and completely destroy the infrastructure... The US supports Israel. In 2008 for killing of 2000 Russian citizens and peace-keepers, Russia kills 11 Georgian civilians and some soldiers... Now Russia is a bully!.. Thank God, Russia was prepared for this and stepped in right away to prevent further killings...
  57. Kass Arctic from Canada writes: Globe Reader - I read part of the article but when I got to this, 'What happened on the night of Aug. 7 is beyond comprehension. The Georgian military attacked the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali with multiple rocket launchers designed to devastate large areas.' I had to stop. Why is it that Russia so desperately tries to make it look like things went bad on August 7, why is there no mention of what lead to it, say from Aug. 1 to Aug. 7, why is there no mention that prior to when the foreign press started finding it interesting, South Ossetians had broken ceasefire? If Yeltsin were still with us, I wonder what he would say...
  58. Mike Kot from Toronto, Canada writes: Kass Arctic, why would poorly-equipped Ossetians, who just want to be left in peace would attack 22,000 strong US and Israeli trained army... Would they want 2,000 of their citizens killed? You do not make sence... This was a pure nazi style genocide by the Georgians... 'Grad' system is a weapon of mass destruction, so you would know.. To fire this on the city at night, is beyond comprehension.
  59. peter jones from Canada writes: why don't all the war mongers on this thread go back to play Grand Theft Auto on their video machines.

    Canada has soldiers dying in Afghanistan in an under supported NATO effort,, yet Georgia has troops to spare to start a war with its neighbour..a war which it hopes to drag Canada into.

    Enough..let the georgian warmongers show their real commitment to 'Democracy' by taking over Canadas role in Kandahar..Let Georgia soldiers die THERE if they want to die anywhere.

    In any case it seems like The Georgian Army all ran away when the Russians came..So if they are not prepared to die on their own soil why should any Canadians die for them..Let them do their own dying first..by the thousands.
  60. J F from Canada writes: The Bush Neo Cons have been exposed once again. Tried it on the wrong people this time
  61. Globe Reader from Toronto, Canada writes: Kass Arctic from Canada. Nothing even close to what Georgia did . As for occasional fire from Georgian and Ossetian sides - it was going on for years. Whole idea of keeping peacekeeping force in the region was to prevent large-scale military action. And that's exactly what Georgia started.
  62. god bless canada from Canada writes: maby you should think before you write this deal was not signed until after mother russia attacked georgia.not before and the other nut case saying russia shold take over the airport they have already been warned from the usa that that would not happen just try it russia try shooting down a us air plane and see what happens to your country it will look worce than iraq did that was a limited airfight in iraq try a full attack from the usa and we will see russia go back in time a thousand years russia does not have the firepower to take on the usa they think they do but really it would be more like what russia did to the georgians ..

    Lando Kalrissian from Red Deer, Canada writes: I forgot to mention two other reasons for the US-sponsored attack by Georgia on South Ossetia, to draw Russia in.
    One is to cover the big and dangerous news that US and Poland have just signed a deal to place US first-strike missiles in Poland; the other is that the US is in financial collapse. The latest blip in the dollar and oil price was due to temporary intervention by the 'President's Working Group on Financial Markets' to help Bush's propaganda war. But they can't hide the slide forever.
  63. Brian Dell from Stockholm, Sweden writes: val tonik writes: The high jacking of the TV crew ... could be sabotage by Georgians, because their weapon is baseless propaganda

    They had already passed through a Georgian checkpoint and were proceeding towards Russian lines. See the International Press Institute account by going to
    http://www.freemedia.at/cms/ipi/statements.html?year=2008
    and clicking on the August 14 statement.
  64. Gary Dale from Toronto, Canada writes: George W. Bush is quite the comedian, although I wonder if he even realizes what he's saying most of the time. Bullying is not acceptable in the 21st Century! While he's got that right, he's so very clearly not the person to be lecturing anyone about bullying that one has to wonder if he really did get over his drug and alcohol abuse.
  65. Nathan Weatherdon from Canada writes: As far as I can tell, all that remains to be done is to draw up new international borders according to the will of the people of South Ossentia, perhaps even by referendum, which would almost certainly result in a slightly larger Russia.
  66. Kass Arctic from Canada writes: Mike, Mike, Mike... I don't make sense? So your claim is that Georgians with their 22,000 army decided a good idea would be to take on Russians' millions? The simple fact is that the separatists were not shooting at an army but at the Georgian villages in South Ossetia.

    I now quote from the Moscow Times (BTW, that is a great resource, if anyone's interested):
    'Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili called for an immediate cease-fire with South Ossetian separatists Thursday after days of fighting raised fears of new war in the Caucasus.
    He repeated an offer of 'full autonomy' for the breakaway region. Russia could be the guarantor of that autonomy, he said, adding that Russia had indicated to him that it was trying to rein in the separatists. 'I offer you an immediate cease-fire and the immediate beginning of talks,' Saakashvili said in a televised address.'

    As a response to that, the separatists kept shooting. That's what preceeded the Georgian attack on South Ossetia's capital. I'd say if anyone put the lives of South Ossetian civilians at risk, it was the separatists.
  67. Mike Kot from Toronto, Canada writes: 'god bless canada' - US cannot attack Russia in the near future.. One US missile in the direction of Russia and in about 60 minutes the world would not exist... God bless 'Nuclear weapons' - they are the guarantor of peace.. Otherwise, wars would be fought all over..
  68. sam johnson from Canada writes: mikhail saakashvili vowed today that he'll fight to the last american.
  69. Kass Arctic from Canada writes: forgot to mention, the Tursday the Moscow imes refers to is the last semi-sane day, the Thursday of last week, i.e. August 7. Seems to me Saakashvili tried. seems to me separatists and their advisors had other ideas.
  70. Frank Lee My Dears I Don't Give A Damn from Toronto, Canada writes:
    Chechnya anyone? Where your humble, gentle, 'I'm here to pick daisies for my girlfriend', Russian 'peace keepers' are deployed. There's no ethnic cleansing going on in Chechnya. Because, according to val tonik, 'Russians would not do such a thing. They are the well organized army, the battalion, and not some forest fighters hiding in bushes causing trouble.'
    Chechnya must be western propaganda, orchestrated by that mastermind (?) of disinformation Bush.
  71. Mike Kot from Toronto, Canada writes: Kaas, listen to what you are saying: That Saakashvilli phsycopath has called immediate cease fire agreement and in 2 hours he bombed the sh*t out the civilian population of Ossetia... How can one call a cease fire and in 2 hours kill 2000 civilians?... Also, Saakashvilli wanted to attack Ossetia and take over it in a day or two... If Russia was slow to react, than the war would have been a done deal and the Ossetia was under Georgian jurisdiction.. Also, there is only one gorge, one pathway through the mountains that leads to Russia.. If Georgia could hold on to that, Russia would not be able to get to Ossetia for months.. At that point, the noble US would come to Georgian rescue.. and everybody would be happy, except for the thousands of dead Ossetians... It was an amazing operation by Russia.. Once Russians pull out and Georgians sign the cease fire agreement, the whole world will see the truth and justice... Saakashvilli will be tried in war tribunal, you will see...
  72. peter jones from Canada writes:
    In any case it seems like The Georgian Army all ran away when the Russians came..So if they are not prepared to die on their own soil why should anyone else die for them..

    Let them do their own dying first..by the thousands.

    You can demonise the Serbs all you want , but they showed how much they valued their 'Territorial Integrity' and 'Sovereignty' becuase held off Nato for over 90 days..in 1999.

    The Georgian effort in their own defense is a pathetic sham.
  73. Mike Kot from Toronto, Canada writes: What would the US do if 2000 of its civilians and UN mandated peacekeepers would be killed??? Ohh wait... that already happened in 911, and since then hundreds of thousands of civilans died in middle east... Russian operation was just and in comparision to US, very civilized...
  74. Frank Lee My Dears I Don't Give A Damn from Toronto, Canada writes:
    I guess Mike Kot can't read. Except his own drivel, of course.
  75. Power Glide from Canada writes:

    you have to wonder why they're fighting over South Ossetia.

    it has no resources to speak of, except for 39,000 hectares of arable land - that's one acre for each of its 100,000 people. each acre there produces $150 of value - that's the total GDP per person there.

    let russia have it - that's what the Ossetians want anyway. given the record of other russian-dominated minorities in the caucasus, like the chechens, it won't be long before there's trubble for the russians.
  76. Brian Dell from Stockholm, Sweden writes: Mike Kot: 2000 civilians killed is a Russian lie. See
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/14/georgia.russia1
    and
    http://www.wsj.com/article/SB121874784363742015.html?mod=psp_whatsnews
  77. Scott Gordon from BC, Canada writes: Brian Dell....GET A LIFE!
  78. Trenton McLeod from Hamilton, Canada writes:

    It's been reported that Russia has dropped cluster bombs into certain parts of Georgia-read Human Rights Watch for more information. At least the Globe and Mail has some independent coverage of this conflict. The Toronto Star's anti-American opinion columnists are virtually silent, with the exception of Thomas Walkom who created a report which read like a hockey game 'score one for Russia' he wrote.
  79. Kass Arctic from Canada writes: Good Lord, Mike, South Ossetia WAS under Georgia's jurisdiction, what with being part of Georgia and all. Saakashvili called for ceasefire that THE SEPARATISTS BROKE. Can you get that through your head? The 2000 dead are yet to be confirmed, how that will be confirmed I do not know as they won't allow any international observers near the area. Must be something to hide? I'd say most of the world has seen a reasonable amount of the truth, it's the ones covering their ears that cannot comprehend that Russia could have done something wrong.
  80. Alex ALEX from St.Petersburg, Russian Federation writes: Well, but what to do next? Before Kosovo independence there was no legal precedent of separatist province to get independance .Absense of a precedent seems to justify Russia (from legal point of view - I am not saying about humanitarian aspect) in its refuse to accept independance of Chechnya. Now (after Kosovo case) Russian president may legally demand independanse for South Osetia and Abhasia. Am I not right?
  81. sean smith from Canada writes: Here are some facts not covered: Georgia is REFUSING to sign the agreement after giving a verbal commitment to do so. Once the main offensive stopped it has now relaunched its propaganda offensive. The agreement stipulated that Russia will have an additional peacekeeping role within Georgia as a buffer zone between SO and Georgian forces. They will remain in this role until a more permanent solution is found. Also there was no agreement over Georgian sovereignty over SO and A. Although Georgia originally agreed to these conditions they are now changing their minds and calling the US to re-negotiate for them. Condi is now involved and seeing if Russia would agree to patrolling up to only 6 miles inside Georgia. So far no word, but as usual, our media fails to mention Russia's agreed to role within Georgia under the Sarkozy agreement and Saakashvili's refusal to abide by its international commitments, here are links:

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=5582354&page=1

    http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=296859
  82. Trenton McLeod from Hamilton, Canada writes:

    Georgia: Russian Cluster Bombs Kill Civilians 15 Aug 2008 00:27:52 GMT
    Source: Human Rights Watch
    Reuters and AlertNet are not responsible for the content of this article or for any external internet sites. The views expressed are the author's alone.
    (Tbilisi, August 15, 2008) � Human Rights Watch researchers have uncovered evidence that Russian aircraft dropped cluster bombs in populated areas in Georgia, killing at least 11 civilians and injuring dozens, Human Rights Watch said today. Human Rights Watch called upon Russia to immediately stop using cluster bombs, weapons so dangerous to civilians that more than 100 nations have agreed to ban their use.
  83. Trenton McLeod from Hamilton, Canada writes:

    Human Rights Watch said Russian aircraft dropped RBK-250 cluster bombs, each containing 30 PTAB 2.5M submunitions, on the town of Ruisi in the Kareli district of Georgia on August 12, 2008. Three civilians were killed and five wounded in the attack. On the same day, a cluster strike in the center of the town of Gori killed at least eight civilians and injured dozens, Human Rights Watch said. Dutch journalist Stan Storimans was among the dead.
  84. Trenton McLeod from Hamilton, Canada writes:

    Perhaps our anti-American Canadians have some leverage with Moscow and will use their good will to persuade the Russians to stop.
  85. desiderio manzanal jr from laval, Canada writes: Poland is a much bigger fish. Its not going to be threatened that easily.
    There is going to be a bigger arms race forming here. The US military have declined after the cold war and so did most of the NAto countries. That the main reason they are having problems in Iraq. This event and the rise of the cold war stand by russian bombmer flights close to our air space and claims on artic sovereignty is just going to increase tension and military spending. Maybe its something both wants to boost the sagging economy.
    The US economic might is not as weak as everyone might think. Their econcomy can turn on a dime and so can their allies. The Nato allies have just been given a wake up call.
  86. Kass Arctic from Canada writes: Power Glide - in a way, what you say makes sense, BUT... Georgians also live in South Ossetia (well, they used to, up until a week ago). In addition to that thereäs the small matter of pipeline that, if Georgia remains in control of the breakaway regions, is not under Russia's control. Not to mention that if you look at the map and compare the land Russia has, and the land georgia has, it would make much more sense to ask why those South Ossetians that so desperately wanted to be Russians, couldn't just move there... Oh, wait, they want independence, you say, and that's why they chose Russia to partner with? Yes, ethnic minorities do well under Russia's protection, ask the Mari, the Mordva and their brethren...
  87. val tonik from toronto, Canada writes: Dell: I saw the confrontation and do understand Russian and Georgian dialects (and i am not a kgb agent like an old-timer 'god bless canada' asserts, i am not even Russian), so i could clearly hear that they were not speaking Russian, but on a local dialect very close to that of Georgia.

    Neo-cons, neo-cons… good old neo-cons. Their weapon is indeed a baseless propaganda; they think that they can harm people by mentally assaulting them. And when they know that they are wrong (and wrong they are most times) , they start an accusation war: accusing of un-patriotism, cowardness, KGB alliance. Grow up people, you are no more terrifying then a scarecrow.
  88. Moshe Goldstein from Scarborough, Canada writes: let's ask the globe to come up with a cute name like 'Ossevars' to describe individual Ossetians. Then lecture other pointy heads that this is what your supposed to call them.

    That might help the reporters feel like grand intellects, and be compensation for forcing them to write outright propaganda with made up facts designed to foment a certain public disposition.
  89. A Canadian from Cole Harbour, Canada writes: Someone wrote 'Moscow attacked Georgia with troops, tanks, planes and warships last week after Tbilisi sent a force into South Ossetia to try to take back control over the province

    -----

    I dont know about your level of military knowledge but the mobilization and coordination of such a large force is not done overnight but requires weeks/months of preparation. It is my understanding that Russia moved 2 tank battalions over mountain. Again this is not done overnight.

    If this is the case, it certainly would indicate that Russia had this pre-planned long ago and if so, then why nobody else noticed this.
  90. Knowledge At Mind! from Toronto, Canada writes: Russia moving forward on Georgia is just a way of flexing muscle towards the United States. Where is the USA? for the small europeans countrires that were promised help and security? (poland, georgia, kazikstan)where is condolezza rice? whom is the Russian specialist. Why did Bush say he and Putin have come to an understanding at the olympic opening ceremonies, but only two days later the Russians moved in further? Now that really made Bush look like and idiot! not a first! WHY WHY WHY? The cold war? Now is Russia allowing Iran to do whatever? remeber they were suppose to put pressure on Iran? Is Hugo Chavez happy? lol...this is going to get ugly...all i can say is McCain and Obama are in for a ride!
  91. Kass Arctic from Canada writes: sean smith - the treaty didn't say one word about Georgia's territorial integrity, hence the delay. To say tit for tat - Saakashvili offered numerous opportunities for ceasefire to Russians from day 1 that Russians ignored. Not that I want anything more than this all to stop. Bush may not be right about many things but it IS the 21st century, and people should be able to do their haggling in a meeting room. Or they could take their armies on an open field and go at it, leave ordinary people and their homes out of it.
  92. Knowledge At Mind! from Toronto, Canada writes: Why does USA have georgian soldiers coming back frm Iraq to defend there land? Understandable there land! But why are American flying them back in? Instigation?
  93. B W from Canada writes: is this another case of western media bias? Russia bad. Georgia good. China bad. Tibet good.

    and did GWB really say 'bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century'?! Gosh - wish he'd told himself that years ago...and listened to his advice...
  94. Y NOT from Canada writes: All the Russians needed was an 'excuse' to do what is now taking place. For a US educated Georgian President, what the h*** was he thinking!!! Did he actually believe the US was going to risk WW3 to rescue his adventurous soul?? I will never condone Russias actions, but when I am in the bush and come onto a bear, I dont moveforward, I cautiously look for a way around the situation.
    • Posted 15/08/08 at 10:37 AM EST |