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PM to meet with opposition leaders; may force fall vote

DANIEL LEBLANC

From Friday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 10:55 PM EST 21/08/08

Harper to make final decision on dissolving Parliament after one-on-one talks ...Read the full article

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  1. Stephane Harpercrite from Thunder Bay, Canada writes: I heard a radio ad here locally for the first time today, from the CPC. Maybe he really is getting that worried, and its not just posturing.
  2. Stephane Harpercrite from Thunder Bay, Canada writes: Bottom line, Harper gets crushed in a fall election in Ontario; as in 80-85 of 108 seats go Liberal. Regardless of how CPC friendly Alberta may be, there are no more seats there for them.
  3. siren call from Canada writes: What's this? The grand pooh bah going hat in hand to see if opposition leaders will play nice?

    Maybe as a gesture of good will, Harper should publicly burn the manual on how to disrupt parliamentary committees his office produced and demanded his party members read and implement.
  4. Stephane Harpercrite from Thunder Bay, Canada writes: Sty, I appreciate your points in that same post you keep pasting in, but you may need to change it up a bit here soon, are you'll start lowering yourself to those CONservatives on here.
    .
  5. M B from Canada writes: Two things are scaring the lights out of Harper--the In and Out Scheme being investigated by the Ethics Committee and the worsening economy which is going to help put us into a deficit situation (the other factors being too much cutting to the GST and overspending). It's now or never for him. Too bad for him that he just can't get more than a minority govt. (hopefully less), because that means he's toast.
  6. R. Wallace Hale from Canada writes: Time to do something intelligent politically -- Red Green for Prime Minister.
  7. D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes: Does 'common ground' imply negotiating and compromising on all sides?

    This could just be another gruesome joke from CPC, sort of a last-ditch effort not to be seen as the party that is responsible for an election.
  8. Stephane Harpercrite from Thunder Bay, Canada writes: Harper is simply a control freak to the n'th degree! He just can't stand that in a parlimentary democracy, with a minority government, you need to create policy that somebody, ANYBODY, else would agree with; which seems impossible for his Reform/Alliance moral idealogue. He can't stand not having control of the committees. He can't stand but have full control over every gavernment annoucement. He can't stand the free press. He can't stand not having majority control of parliament. And Harper will never see a majority.
  9. Paul Byer from Canada writes: But the Liberals have kept the government afloat on a number of occasions, as large numbers of Liberal MPs failed to show up for crucial confidence votes.

    .....................................................................
    Now that is true disrespect for parliament!

    The gutless wonders will keep this government afloat until next year when Harper will call an election and win another minority. Doesn't need a majority as he has proven.
  10. Stephane Harpercrite from Thunder Bay, Canada writes: What's hilarious is Harper has nothing in terms of policy for them to discuss! The CPC has no policy, a corrupt party, and a control-freak leader!
  11. The Man Behind The Curtain from United States writes: The other party leader should skip the one-on-one meetings and just say they never got the summons, or were too busy to meet at that time, or had other plans already, etc...
  12. West Virginian Albino Mexican from Canada writes: Stephane Harpercrite from Thunder Bay, Canada writes: Sty, I appreciate your points in that same post you keep pasting in, but you may need to change it up a bit here soon, are you'll start lowering yourself to those CONservatives on here.

    ====================================================

    Conservatives will never be that low - or that stupid.

    Quite a few posts so far SH - pulling a double shift in the LPC war-room?

    Cheers!
  13. siren call from Canada writes: The Man Behind The Curtain from United States writes: The other party leader should skip the one-on-one meetings and just say they never got the summons, or were too busy to meet at that time, or had other plans already, etc...
    .....................................

    Then they can show up 3 days late and holler & scream for an audience with the grand pooh bah ....
  14. siren call from Canada writes: Does anyone, including and welcoming Mr. Harper's supporters, think Mr. Harper can sit down and have a reasonable discussion, in good faith, with any of the opposition leaders?

    I mean Mr. Harper can't even seem to aspire to that level of courtesy with the premiers or even amongst his own party members.

    Smoke and mirrors so the Harperites can deflect any blame to the opposition.
  15. Ricky for a Centrist Canada from Canada writes:
    Albino Loser - if it were the LPC refusing to cooperate with a parliamentary committee looking into campaign donation fraud, you'd be frothing at the mouth spouting off about liberal corruption.

    But legitimate criticism against the CPC's obstructionist tactics are somehow baseless.

    There's a lot of talking points on that CPC website - pick some better ones, eh?

    In any case, I'd be careful if I were Dion, Duceppe, May, or Layton.

    Anything in the meeting will no doubt be twisted out of context, and will be ammo for the con hack loser propaganda machine.

    Harper is not to be trusted.
  16. bob gervitz from United States writes: Sounds like a desperate man making a desperate move, especially given his support of fixed election dates. Whether true or not, it would appear that Harper sees this as the only way to head off a further drop in popularity. He seems to be hoping, come the election campaign, that voters will suddenly forget the recent track record (Bernier, In and Out scheme, more Afghan casualties, deficit looming, attack adverts, etc., etc.) and start fresh. Hard to imagine how it could be successful, except for Dion and friends shooting themselves in the feet multiple times over the course of the election run (which is quite possible). But even then it seems the electorate may prefer the devil they don't know really well but hope will be better (Liberals), rather than the devil they do know who has proven himself inept and, especially, mean-spirited (Harper Cons).

    BTW, Red Green for PM is an excellent idea! Party colour - duct tape grey!
  17. Bobby Dy from Canada writes: One Harper factor not considered is that Harper is a polarizing character that very well turn many committed voters into ABC voters. While pollsters may make some inferences about party support based on how people report their voting preferences, the ABC block is significant and growing since Harper emerged on the scene. Strategic ABC voting is not something that pollsters consider when polling.
  18. Bobby Dy from Edmonton, Canada writes: This plan to reduce the federal government's capacity to justify cutting programs came to fruition too quickly because of the, at the time unexpected, downturn in the US economy. Based on the deficit spending the last couple of months, it may be very tempting to let this government float. The combination of a budget deficit and potential for significant program cuts in the immediate future combined with further exploration of the ethical lapses may prove too tempting for either the LPC or the BQ. The BQ, of all parties, may have the most to gain from continuing Parliament.
  19. M B from Canada writes: Stephane Harpercrite from Thunder Bay, Canada writes: What's hilarious is Harper has nothing in terms of policy for them to discuss! The CPC has no policy.

    But, but yes they do -

    - put all junkies in jail
    - eventually cut ALL arts spending
    - get revenge on Ontario for the NEP
    - screw NL
    - silence the CBC
    - further alienate China (thinking it'll help our standing with Bush)
    - make further tax cuts to help the wealthy
    - do away with the CWB
    - make more cuts to programs Canadians consider essential
    - renege on more promises, eg. Income Trusts, Atlantic Accords

    Just a few irritating things I could think of. Please add to my list.
  20. Peter Kells from Bytown, Canada writes: Where are the Rhinos when we need them most?
  21. D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes: So it is cat and mouse, but which is which?

    I say you can't insist enough on the importance of the 'not a leader' campaign.' It gives one a pretty good idea of how the government is showing leadership on the big issues (environment, economy health care).
  22. Reg Anderson from Canada writes: Don't you people get it! The corporte globalization movement WANTS the Green Shift. You know, the boys behind the North American Union.. SPP, or what ever you want to call it? And everyone, including liberal supporters, know that the corporations will off-load their share of the tax burden by increasing prices, while claiming the high-road and continuing to rape the planet. Nothing ever changes.. and do you know why? Its because they haven't given us a choice. The people behind the NAU have decided it's time for a change because we couldn't have a right-wing governemnt raising taxes.. could we. They own the media and the media will see to it that public favour turns from the conservatives to the liberals. And the liberals will implement the Green Shift because that is their role. And in the meantime, on the people level, the image that liberals raise taxes will continue, the arguing will continue, and the division will continue and all because we don't have a choice. We've seen it over and over and over again people.. wake up! They are playing us for fools.. using the blame game!

    The GST
    The NAFTA
    The War in Afhanistan

    And now..

    The Green Shift

    WAKE UP!
  23. Elmo Harris from Niagara, Canada writes: mike sty writes: ...the Liberals stole money...
    ===

    I wish you would stop saying that, Mike. No Liberal politician has ever made a dime from the Sponsorship Scandal. What you are doing is perpetuating Steve Harper's lies. Mismanagement by Pelletier? Yes. Mismanagement by Chretien? Well, Gomery says yes but recent court action suggests a certain bias by Justice Gomery may have clouded his judgment. Anyway, here is the link: You can save a lot of boring reading if you start at page 425:

    http://epe.lac-bac.gc.ca/100/206/301/pco-bcp/commissions/sponsorship-ef/06-02-10/www.gomery.ca/en/phase1report/ffr/ffchapter%2016v01.pdf

    Adscam was a great line for the Conservatives who skillfully painted the Liberal leadership as somehow having something to do with this. Not the truth. If you would take the time to review Mr. Justice Gomery's report, you would find that he specifically exonerates the government of Paul Martin and Liberal politicians and places the blame squarely on the shoulders of a few zealots who wrongly believed that their actions would save Quebec, and some greedy ad executives. Harper, skillfully turned this into a quagmire for Martin and Martin misjudged the intelligence of the Canadian population in being able to detect bull when they heard it.

    To this day, you and many other people actually believe Harper's version of events. On that basis I will give him credit for managing to turn the truth around. As a student of Goebbels, Harper has proved once again that 'If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.'
  24. Paul Byer from Canada writes: The Man Behind The Curtain from United States writes: The other party leader should skip the one-on-one meetings and just say they never got the summons, or were too busy to meet at that time, or had other plans already, etc...
    .........................................................................
    They did that already in regards to crucial votes in Parliament. They were AWOL. Talk about disrespect for Parliament. Forgot to set their watches or they were too busy trying to figure out how to launder that $40 million back into the campaign chest.
  25. Chris R from Ottawa, Canada writes: I never thought I'd say it... but I miss Sandra Buckler.
  26. West Virginian Albino Mexican from Canada writes: Ricky for a Centrist Canada from Canada writes: Albino Loser - if it were the LPC refusing to cooperate with a parliamentary committee looking into campaign donation fraud, you'd be frothing at the mouth spouting off about liberal corruption. But legitimate criticism against the CPC's obstructionist tactics are somehow baseless. There's a lot of talking points on that CPC website - pick some better ones, eh? In any case, I'd be careful if I were Dion, Duceppe, May, or Layton. Anything in the meeting will no doubt be twisted out of context, and will be ammo for the con hack loser propaganda machine. Harper is not to be trusted. ==================================================== Ricky IS Really A Partisan Liberal Hack, once again you're leaping before looking (not hard to do when your wearing blinders over Plexiglas contacts). If the CPC is found in violation of this according to Canadian electoral laws, then let the punishment be dished out and heads roll. Stupid Sty posts the same thing every time. 'If found, guilty' - meaning after appropriate charges have been laid and processed in a court of law. No charges have been laid in anything - so unless Sty has psychic powers and knows something the rest of us don't he's jumping the gun a little.
  27. Paul Byer from Canada writes: Elmo Harris from Niagara, Canada writes: mike sty writes: ...the Liberals stole money...
    ===

    I wish you would stop saying that, Mike. No Liberal politician has ever made a dime from the Sponsorship Scandal. What you are doing is perpetuating Steve Harper's lies. Mismanagement by Pelletier? Yes. Mismanagement by Chretien? Well, Gomery says yes but recent court action suggests a certain bias by Justice Gomery may have clouded his judgment.

    .............................................................................

    Well it was either a very corrupt government who managed to elude prosecution (so far) or it was a very incompetent government. Which one was it? Only two options. Either way, Harper isn't far off. And if the money was getting back into the Liberal coffers, then they did make many a dime from it.
  28. Chris R from Ottawa, Canada writes: Kory reminds me of that Anthony Michael Hall charcter in Breakfast Club. Why do these politicos hire such young staff and put them in such responsible positions?
  29. Ricky for a Centrist Canada from Canada writes:
    Elmo Harris - and Albino Loser boy is a perfect example!!
  30. Paul Byer from Canada writes: And if the money was getting back into the Liberal coffers, then they did make many a dime from it.

    ......................................................................

    A total of 4,000,000 dimes of the taxpayers money. And we want it back.
  31. Paul Byer from Canada writes: Actually 400,000,000 dimes.
  32. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: D. B. from Greater Sask.:-- I'd like to be a fly on the wall, as they say, wouldn't you?
  33. Chris R from Ottawa, Canada writes: Sure Paul -- and I want the $130,000 that Jim Flaherty gave his old pal Queen's Park bud --despite warnings from his staff that he was breaking contracting rules -- for writing a 15 minute speech. But it ain't going to happen!

    Did Flaherty ever apologize or demand the money back for his bud? Nope. He just seethed and spewed in the House of Commons ---- and he talked about value for money... and he blamed his underlings.
  34. Merely an Observer from Canada writes: Reg Anderson; the real life Robert Thorn is on the case!
  35. JP M from Canada writes: I'm amazed that no one has yet called this for what it is, i.e. an attempt to accelerate the timetable for the dissolution of Parliament. The script goes something like this:
    1. Invite leaders to meet in private
    2. Dare them to not show up (like a Conservative who's received a summons)
    3. If they don't show up, it is evidence that Parliament is not working, and needs to be dissolved immediately
    4. If they do show up, say that they did not demonstrate a willingness to work together

    The fact is that Harper and the CPC LITERALLY wrote the book on ensuring that Parliament is dysfunctional. They simply don't understand that a MINORITY government does not provide them the mandate make wholesale changes to the country and dismantle institutions that the other parties (and the majority of Canadians) cherish and support. This is a political ploy by an infantile politician who simply cannot accept that he can't have his way all of the time, and who is DESPERATE to ensure that the detailed, incriminating facts of the 'In&Out' scheme never come to light.

    I hope and pray that the opposition parties are smart enough to navigate this treacherous snare (perhaps that opposition leaders should collectively agree to meet Harper in a public leaders' forum, where all can see his approach, and no-one can be bribed alla Cadman), and that the Canadian electorate is intelligent enough to see this for what it is.
  36. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Reg Anderson:-- And your recommendation/solution is what? Besides insomnia, that is.
  37. Paul Byer from Canada writes: diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: D. B. from Greater Sask.:-- I'd like to be a fly on the wall, as they say, wouldn't you?

    ..............................................................................

    I would think it would be obvious. 'Either fish or cut bait. Back off on the inquisition and let the issue proceed into the proper courts where it belongs or or let the electorate decide. Let's get on with the important issues of governing of the country'. ....Pretty obvious. I believe it will be another year of cutting bait for the opposition and great fishing for the government and the people of Canada.
    IMHO.
  38. Antonio San from Canada writes: Politicians ego will cost us taxpayers $300 million for another minority government. Meanwhile maternities are a disgrace and infrastructure is crumbling. Boycott elections!
  39. Paul Byer from Canada writes: Chris R from Ottawa, Canada writes: Sure Paul -- and I want the $130,000 that Jim Flaherty gave his old pal Queen's Park bud --despite warnings from his staff that he was breaking contracting rules -- for writing a 15 minute speech. But it ain't going to happen!
    .........................................................................
    Brings a golf course into mind. And that was a lot more than the $130,000 given for bona fide work with personal benefits included..And then $40,000,000 factually stolen vs $130,000 of disputed work value. Somehow there might be a difference.
  40. Elmo Harris from Niagara, Canada writes: Paul Byer, money inappropriately did get into the Quebec wing of the Liberal party via ad execs to be used to fight the separatists - no question. Was the government of Chretien or Martin involved in that bone-headed idea? Absolutely not. As I mentioned, that was the work of a few zealots and greedy ad execs. As soon as Ralph Goodale took over responsibility for the program he saw the problems, threw up red flags, and got the Auditor General involved. It was Paul Martin who commissioned the Gomery Inquiry to get to the bottom of the mess. Again, kudos to Harper for turning Paul Martin's honest intentions into a quagmire.

    Another of Goebbels maxims that Harper uses so well:

    “The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over&8221; (Joseph Goebbels)
  41. D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes: After reading rather powerful posts from d-m and Bobby Dy on the Nova Scotia (carbon tax) thread, I see I was naive and hasty in even suggesting that compromise might be part of the discussions among the leaders. (Hey, all the leaders should meet at once). Compromise for Harper would mean trying to make all that money that he intentionally frittered away re-appear magically so that we might have some leeway to get us through these 'difficult times.' That would be a miracle.
  42. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Paul Byer:-- As Mr. Dion said (with an almost-imperceptible but knowing smirk) at his press conference, timing is everything, even in fishing.
  43. Chris R from Ottawa, Canada writes: Oh, sure, Paul. $130,000 - it's peanuts, really. And who cares then if it's a Tory. Let's let him off the hook.

    The RCMP is prosecuting the criminals involved in the adscam... What more do you want?

    You have anything current to discuss?
  44. Conservatives Lie from Canada writes: This is window dressing on the part of Harper and the Conservatives, plain and simple.

    Harper and the Conservatives have been caught poised to break the law that they pushed to have put in place. So as justification, Harper wants to now appear as though he tried to find alternatives. In truth, he wants the election, bad. Things are going from bad to worse for the Conservatives with the investigation into their election money laundering scandal and now the realization that they are preparing to slash food inspection funding in the wake of the tainted meat crisis. Harper is desperate to go the polls before the full effects of his criminal activity can be uncovered.

    Can we as Canadians really trust a man who is about to break the law that he himself wrote?
  45. R. M. from Regina, Canada writes: I just LOVE the critical posts about Harper, the same people who would have been arguing before that minority gov'ts are great for Canada but when the PM wants to meet with the opposition parties to arrive at compromises and approaches to make the gov't work he is vilified. These people don't just want their cake and it to they want to bake it as well.
  46. ... Who's Zoomin' Who? from Adanac, Canada writes: So if the Liberals 'stole' 400,000,000 dimes of taxpayer's money (to date unfounded and unproven) why do the Harpercrites claim the LPC is broke? Can't have it both ways can you now? Unless of course the truth of the matter is inconsequential.
  47. Chris R from Ottawa, Canada writes: R.M. -- No, I'm thrilled that Harper wants to meet the opposition parties. Do I believe he wants to compromise with them? Not for a second!

    I think that Anthony Michael Hall aka Kory -- and the brain trust in the PMO -- saw that Harper's hypocritical threat to toss away his promise of fixed election dates didn't play well in the media -- National Post and the Sun chain included.

    Time to switch gears and pretend to play nice.

    Since Dion has rolled over on every vote thus far ---- Harper has been governing like a majority. So what exactly is his hurry? Could it have something to do with the fact that his party's getting dragged through the mud everyday in scandal and he can't get above 36% in the polls to save his life?
  48. Jesse Winger from Calgary SW, Canada writes: Who's being dysfunctional and disruptive? The Conservatives have the 200 page manual on how to disrupt and delay committees.

    In truth the Cons see their ballooning deficits, increasing unemployment with rising interest rates and realize: they're failing.

    But (worst of all) this tawdry 'in-and-out scandal' is closing in on them fast and they want to avoid it all costs.

    That's why our PM Harper and the Conservatives are panicing to break their own laws: he's desperate to cling to power.
  49. C R from Canada writes: Harper is really sweating desperation. The truth behind his election scandal appears as bad as it seems. After all, if one cheats the country out of fair democratic elections, it's going to bite you hard if such truth comes out. I don't think Canada is ready for tyranny just yet. Hopefully never. Anyway if Harper dissolves parliament, I guess what is one more broken promise? What is one more broken law from his little band of right wing ideologues?
  50. Not the Alliance from In my opinion, The Harper Gov't is totally Incompetent, but excel at whining that it's ALWAYS somebody else's fault., Canada writes: 'One on one' meetings? I guess that's Harper's first act of humility in two and half years. I thought His Greatness would characterize the meetings as 'One on One and a half' or something like that. Maybe Harper is realizing that as PM he was the ultimately the cause of the dysfunction? Are we going to see a kinder, gentler Harper now?
  51. C R from Canada writes: Harper is really sweating desperation. The truth behind his election scandal appears as bad as it seems. After all, if one cheats the country out of fair democratic elections, it's going to bite you hard if such truth comes out. I don't think Canada is ready for tyranny just yet. Hopefully never. Anyway if Harper dissolves parliament, I guess what is one more broken promise? Do even the laws that Harper himself puts into place apply to his little band of right wing ideologues?
  52. Ricky for a Centrist Canada from Canada writes:
    RM - it's because Harper has no intention, and has never had any intention, of cooperating with his political rivals.

    Harper, Kenney, Van Loan, Baird, Tom Flanagan, John Reynolds, and the rest of the Reformatives have been planning a campaign since the moment they took office on the government side.

    Harper's plan has never been to govern - only to move chess pieces into place to go on another campaign, with only a majority being an acceptable result.

    Harper did not get into politics (and this is where I actually think he is distinct from the others) to build Canada. He got involved specifically to destroy liberalism and centre-politics in Canada. That's the neo-con way. Only the right-wing is correct. All others are 'socialists' or 'communists' or 'lefties'.

    There is no discussion, there is no diversity. You're either with us, or you're the enemy.

    Any 'meeting' called by Harper for so-called 'cooperation' is to be viewed with suspicion.

    Period.
  53. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Our spicydoc raised the matter of Senator Joseph McCarthy early this a.m. (though he misspelled his name). Senator McCarthy made points of order - a tool much used by CPC members of the Ethics Committee - such a personal specialty that a documentary (Point of Order!, 1964) was made about the 1954 Army-McCarthy Hearings. Senator McCarthy believed that the CIA, State Department, and Army (not to mention Congress, if memory serves) had been infiltrated by communists and he prosecuted a partisan witch-hunt.

    The uncomplimentary term, McCarthyism, was coined, but Senator McCarthy seized upon it and suggested that McCarthyism was 'Americanism with its sleeves rolled up'. I see some of Senator McCarthy in our fearful leader, who points to activist/liberal enemies everywhere (the press, Senate, judiciary, civil service...) as a means of advancing his own power - to what end, of course, we don't know.
  54. Not the Alliance from In my opinion, The Harper Gov't is totally Incompetent, but excel at whining that it's ALWAYS somebody else's fault., Canada writes: R. M. from Regina, Canada writes: 'I just LOVE the critical posts about Harper, the same people who would have been arguing before that minority gov'ts are great for Canada but when the PM wants to meet with the opposition parties to arrive at compromises and approaches to make the gov't work he is vilified. '

    You know, R. M., if this had happened say: two years ago, your post might be appropriate.
  55. Reg Anderson from Canada writes: diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Reg Anderson:-- And your recommendation/solution is what? Besides insomnia, that is.
    --
    Spread the word and denounce partisanship. Take away their basis for control.
  56. Not the Alliance from In my opinion, The Harper Gov't is totally Incompetent, but excel at whining that it's ALWAYS somebody else's fault., Canada writes: I DO hope the other party leaders remember to exit the room walking backwards and bowing after their audience with the dear leader!
  57. James Tod from Vancouver, Canada writes: So Harper wants to meet behind closed doors out of the view of the public and meet with the Opposition leaders, but he won't give a public debate to Dion?
  58. Hairy Wrangellian from Canada writes: If it weren't for the fact that the Conservatives really could do a lot more damage in the next year, the slightly vindictive side of me wants to see the opposition parties dig in their heels and say 'no, you set the date of the election for October 2009, let's go with that' - and watch this turkey twist for the next 12 months while the economy goes south. Then we could be rid of these creeps for a while and get our country back.

    But not really, he could make too much of a mess in the next 14 months.
  59. Paul Byer from Canada writes: James Tod from Vancouver, Canada writes: So Harper wants to meet behind closed doors out of the view of the public and meet with the Opposition leaders, but he won't give a public debate to Dion? ................................................................. Best to berate a child away from his peers in private. Less embarassing and he won't have to say he gave in but he will. He will be allowed to say he was tough in making his priorities. But still give in. No choice.
  60. Ed Long from Canada writes: I can't govern, can you? How about you?

    Well, I guess we have an election .... right?

    The self admitted inability to govern due to 'dysfunction' is the lamest moment in Canadian political history.

    Do these people really think that we consider them to be leaders?

    Get the UN to send in an administration team. Canada is ungovernable.
  61. Expert Eal from Canada writes: Personally, I think that Harper's proposed fixed election dates is now a good idea.

    If it prevents governments from dissolving parliament early to avoid being investigated too closely, then it really will raise the bar on accountability.
  62. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Reg Anderson:-- It is said that younger people are post-partisan, but they are also somewhat unengaged. Through their consumerism they pave the way for corporate globalization, even as they remain somewhat uninvolved in the only means by which any control is exerted. Are you proposing anarchy?
  63. Expert Eal from Canada writes: Paul Byer from Canada writes:

    Best to berate a child away from his peers in private. Less embarassing and he won't have to say he gave in but he will. He will be allowed to say he was tough in making his priorities. But still give in. No choice.

    Also Paul, it's less embarrasing when you have to go to your political opponent with hat in hand after a degrading and humiliation campaign against them if you can do it in private.
  64. Ricky for a Centrist Canada from Canada writes:
    Agree, Diane.

    Comparing the legitimate committee inquiry to McCarthyism grossly demeans the unfortunate victims of the McCarthy hearings.

    There is no comparison. CPC MP's and their esteemed leader are not being persecuted, they're being investigated. Legitimately. They're not being accused because of their beliefs - they're being accused because their activities allegedly broke specific laws regarding elections in Canada.

    The large drum the Harpercrites beat for the two years leading up to the 2006 election - one based on 'accountability and transparency' makes their histrionics in front of the committee that much more suspicious. If they would cooperate and stop lying, and the committee findings are nil - I will be on here saying it was a waste and miscarriage of authority.
  65. D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes: After this summer, the Harper Conservatives will be glad to get back into Parliament and say, 'Whew, things can only get better now.' Wait a minute....
  66. Paul Byer from Canada writes: Expert Eal from Canada writes: Paul Byer from Canada writes:

    Best to berate a child away from his peers in private. Less embarassing and he won't have to say he gave in but he will. He will be allowed to say he was tough in making his priorities. But still give in. No choice.

    Also Paul, it's less embarrasing when you have to go to your political opponent with hat in hand after a degrading and humiliation campaign against them if you can do it in private.

    .......................................................
    Totally agreed. I would think that Dion will not only go with his hat in hand but will be given the 'boot' before the next election that Harper calls when he sets it in the fall of 2009. The only hope that the opposition has is to replace this albatross however gracefully they may. Meanwhile, Harper will push through much needed legislation in the next year with the Liberals as usual being absent. Perhaps a feigned illness would suffice for Dion. However Iggy with his 'Foot In The Mouth Disease' or Rae 'Ontario Yours to Recover' will not foot the bill if they hope to achieve anything. It will take a rising star like the Moses in the U.S. to give any kind of competition.
  67. Randy Hyland from Winnipeg, Canada writes: You know what I would love to see is each leader of the opposition parties record these one on one meetings with Harper. Do you think Harper would go for that? Why not then there could be no BS in accusations of blame coming out of those meetings.

    Come guys record these meetings.
  68. Paul Byer from Canada writes: Randy Hyland from Winnipeg, Canada writes: You know what I would love to see is each leader of the opposition parties record these one on one meetings with Harper. Do you think Harper would go for that? Why not then there could be no BS in accusations of blame coming out of those meetings.

    Come guys record these meetings.

    ...................................................................................
    That would be loverly, but I am sure the poor souls will only meet with Harper if their discussions are not parlayed to the public. Too embarassing for them. No doubt it will be in writing.
  69. sally stink from edmonton, Canada writes: --canadians only want good government out of ottawa.
    why can't all these parties work together for the betterment
    of canada? i just can't stand this hateful bickering that is
    going on right now. anybody agree?
  70. siren call from Canada writes: Randy Hyland from Winnipeg, Canada writes:
    Come guys record these meetings.
    ........................................

    Seems like a good idea. Except that when you catch Harper saying things on tape -- Harper tends to sue you. Regardless that the words tumbled from his mouth ...
  71. Paul Byer from Canada writes: sally stink from edmonton, Canada writes: --canadians only want good government out of ottawa.
    why can't all these parties work together for the betterment
    of canada? i just can't stand this hateful bickering that is
    going on right now. anybody agree?

    ..............................................

    Good chance of that happening after the meetings, I would think.
  72. Expert Eal from Canada writes: Paul Byer, could you pass to me what ever you are smoking, it seems to alter your perception of reality quite nicely.
  73. Elmo Harris from Niagara, Canada writes: Oh, gosh. I now realize the Paul Byer is actually Karol Karolak!
  74. SL S from Saskatchewan, Canada writes: What to do, what to do. Vote in the Conservatives and you have to live with cheating the system and secrecy. Vote in the Liberals and they tax the hell out of you and steal from you all the while lying about it. Vote in the NDP and nothing happens, literally, absolutely nothing happens. They'd be too confused to have a clue. An election is the country at this time can only mean one thing. We, the people, lose again.
  75. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Nancy Wilson:-- You certainly aren't going out on a high note, Nancy.
  76. Hairy Wrangellian from Canada writes: SL S: I agree, so I'm voting Green.
  77. Paul Byer from Canada writes: Elmo Harris from Niagara, Canada writes: Oh, gosh. I now realize the Paul Byer is actually Karol Karolak!

    .............................................................

    And Elmo Harris is actually Elmer Fudd. Now be verrrry verrrry cwareful, swilly wabbit.

    (Makes about as much sense)
  78. SL S from Saskatchewan, Canada writes: Hairy Wrangellian from Canada, I never thought I'd ever say it but I'm giving them very careful consideration. I checked out their site earlier today. I have some question and depending on how they are answered, well, we'll have to wait and see. I'm pretty fed up with the Conservatives and their secrets and the Liberals with their constant thievery not to mention the fact that I'm not really impressed with a leader who isn't willing to give up his 'other' citizenship. Tells me that he's not prepared to be fully invested in this country. That's just bad leadership right off the start in my book.
  79. Paul Byer from Canada writes: SL S from Saskatchewan, Canada writes: What to do, what to do. Vote in the Conservatives and you have to live with cheating the system and secrecy. Vote in the Liberals and they tax the hell out of you and steal from you all the while lying about it. Vote in the NDP and nothing happens, literally, absolutely nothing happens. They'd be too confused to have a clue. An election is the country at this time can only mean one thing. We, the people, lose again.

    ...........................................................................
    Best to stay with the Devil you know that is making the first positive changes to this country in decades. Not a tough decision really. And if you believe that the Conservatives are cheating for $1 million (debatable election expenses not yet ruled upon), just remember the $40 million by the Liberals (factual) and the boondoggle of another $1 BILLION yep $1 BILLION in the firearm registration fiasco. Now how much of that money went into partisan pockets? That would be a great investigation, I am sure. And the golf course? And the steamship line? And the and the and the. And no sense discussing the non entity parties.
  80. SL S from Saskatchewan, Canada writes: Paul Byer from Canada, I will say that currently the Liberals are on the bottom of my list. My anger is greatest towards them at this point. They'd have to come up with some pretty good, no BS, promises to get my attention again and the Green Shaft ain't it.
  81. Hairy Wrangellian from Canada writes: SL S: Yes. What I see of Green policy I like, and I really think we have to make some big changes to the way we do things in this country - on a lot of fronts.

    Unfortunately, the way our electoral system works, it is very hard for a new party to make a breakthrough to the point where it has enough seats that people take it seriously. Until that happens, people feel like they are throwing their vote away and unintentionally helping a creep like Harper take power - the Ralph Nader phenomenon.

    We really need proportional representation in this country, but of course, neither the Liberals nor the Conservatives support it because they have everything to lose, so it will be a long time coming.
  82. SL S from Saskatchewan, Canada writes: Paul Byer from Canada in my opinion, leadership requires sacrifice and commitment. I have seen none of that out of Dion. In fact he has done the exact opposite, in my opoinion, by holding his French citizenship. As long as he holds that, in my eyes, he will not be commited to this country. Some see this as a small thing, my wife and I don't and about 60 of our friends agree. Harper and his secrets, all the behind the closed door crap, has me scared. I have to admit I like some of the things he did in the first 1 1/2 years but the Conservatives have been sliding down hill very fast recently. They'd better smarten up fast if they hope to retain my ear.
  83. SL S from Saskatchewan, Canada writes: Hairy Wrangellian from Canada, I agree and at this time I question my desire to vote Green because of the current state of affairs in this country. I do also question that if I don't then how can the Green work it's way up the ladder. They need more seats to offset some of the purest stupidity that currently exists in Parliament which is emminating from the Liberal and Conservative seats.
  84. Hairy Wrangellian from Canada writes: Paul Byer: What about the $189 million the Conservatives spent sending the old Leopards to Afghanistan, the tanks that couldn't be used in the summertime because they get too hot. What a stupid waste of money that was, and I wonder how many of O'Connor's buddies made out on that one.

    And the gun registry - sure, the Liberals bungled it, but then the Conservatives compound the stupidity by dismantling it after it's mostly built.
  85. Reg Anderson from Canada writes: diane marie

    Anarchy? No, definately not. I am proposing democracy. There isn't a good enough reason not to have refrendums via the internet with today's technology. Costs would be minimal, the algorithm to maintain integtrity is quite simple. Why not make critical thinking a basic class, starting in elementary school, free to all. There are many things that could be done to promote democracy. But they are not even on the table. And the reason is because any/all of these would break the controlling mechansim. Partisanship.
  86. Elmo Harris from Niagara, Canada writes: SL S from Saskatchewan and Hairy Wrangellian: When the Liberal took over in 1993 they were burdened with a country that had lost it's triple-A rating, was in serious financial difficulty with a yearly deficit of over 42 billion dollars and considered a third world economy by the rest of the world. We had record high unemployment. The country, after 8 years of the Conservative Mulroney government was a basket case - no question.

    Through sound fiscal management and very tough decision making the Chretien government took almost 3 years to clear the deficit and move this country back on the road to prosperity. By the end of the 90's, this country was not only prosperous but rated as THE best country in the world in which to live. Our unemployment was down to normal levels. By the end of Paul Martin's government our dollar was trading at a comfortable 90 cents. We had healthy surpluses in revenue and trade. Inflation was under control. We were respected throughout the world. We were paying down our accumulated National Debt by record amounts. We were still one of the best countries in the world in which to live.

    All that changed when we elected Harper. Respect from our peers in the world is at record lows - the lowest ever. We have a deficit again. Trade is falling dramatically. Inflation is up. Unemployment is up. Soon, mortgage and interest rates will begin their inevitable escalation. In short, we will be going where Bush led America.

    And Hairy, don't be naive. A vote for the Greens is a vote for the Conservatives. The politics in this country have changed dramatically since Harper took office. We can no longer have the luxury of multiple parties in the center and left. The result is you split the vote and lose your point. Right now, Jack Layton and Elizabeth May are Stephen Harper's best friends. The more votes they take the more likely a Conservative will win the election.
  87. Paul Byer from Canada writes: SL S from Saskatchewan, Canada writes: Paul Byer from Canada in my opinion, leadership requires sacrifice and commitment. ........................................................... I believe that what Harper was facing was a large number of loose cannons that didn't have the experience in a ruling party. A lot of good people but without street sense. He therefore closed them off from the press and set the pace and rules for them. I believe you will see this loosen off somewhat in the future as his people prove their abilities but loose cannons can do a lot of damage and he is smart enough to realize that. Nothing gets a government into more problems than a hundred different views being espoused when it is not the party line. The press jumps on it like ugly on a gorilla and detracts from the party line. It may look like secrecy but to me it is smart politics. Time after time I hear about his about face on Income Trusts. I personally was making 22% return on an income trust until he cancelled it but in my opinion, my kids, family, friends and neighbours were paying for it. I am willing to sacrifice that return for a modest honest return. 10/10 Provinical finance ministers also supported the cancellation of that tax loop hole. That only fortifies my belief he did the right thing, by listening to the people. My shared income has assisted my wife and I as I receive a pension and my wife doesn't. The GST helps everyone. The crime bills help everyone. The previous governments kept promising gst cuts, environment aids, child care etc. etc. ect. and did not come across. Harper has fulfilled many of his promises and is continuing to fulfill them along with many other progressive changes that we haven't seen in decades. Deportation of criminals that have been here for years in and out of prison. This is all taking place behind the scenes. Secrecy, maybe but effective for social reform. Anyway, time for bed. Good night and all the best no matter what decision you make.
  88. Hairy Wrangellian from Saltspring Island, Canada writes: Reg: Sure we could have online referendums, but then the politicians would have to give up some power... I don't think they're ready.

    But as a start, how about some online discussion forums like this one, where politicians are REQUIRED to show up and provide a little accountability.
  89. Paul Byer from Canada writes: Hairy Wrangellian from Canada writes: Paul Byer: What about the $189 million the Conservatives spent sending the old Leopards to Afghanistan, the tanks that couldn't be used in the summertime because they get too hot. .............................................. Or Chretien sending green camo uniforms for our soldiers to wear in the brown deserts? Making them perfect targets! What do you expect from someone who puts a helmet on backwards? The old Leopards were sent because the Liberals had totally destroyed the military inventory over years of mismanagement and we had nothing else. Better than the jeeps that Chretien expected our soldiers to fight in.
  90. SL S from Saskatchewan, Canada writes: Elmo Harris from Niagara, for 13 years the Liberals paid down the defecit. That's all they did. They did this at the expense of the Military, health care, education and the middle class. Meanwhile they ensured their own futures by out right stealing from you, me and everyone else and then lied about it. Basically they did nothing but destroy the infrastructure of this country by setting it back 20 years and paid off a bit of debt knowing damn well that the next party in control would have to go into debt just to rebuild what they let rot. If your infrastructure isn't upgraded in a timely and effecient manner then it will cost 2 to 3 times the amount to catch it up later. A lesson we all learned thanks to the Liberals. They may have you duped into seeing them as hero's but all I see is a huge con job and a country that got screwed.
  91. Elmo Harris from Niagara, Canada writes: Nancy Wilson: I've met both Harper and Dion. You're characterization of Dion as weak is completely wrong. Harper is soft and flaccid. He has the handshake of a girl (no offense to girls intended). Dion on the other hand is taller, leaner, and very fit. He was a known scrapper in his younger years. I would put money on Dion to win any physical competition with Harper. Looking like a geek is one thing. Getting your a$$ kicked down the street by a 'geek' is quite another.
  92. SL S from Saskatchewan, Canada writes: Paul Byer from Canada, good point that I will take into consideration with regards to the secrecy. I never looked at it that way before but yeah, it makes sense. The rest I agree with. These are the good things that I saw done by the Conservatives in the beginning. Things that the Liberals had negelected for far too long in lue of paying off the debt. Infrastructure was ignored for 13 years under Liberal Governance and it was nice to see it brought up to speed finally. It's the actions of late from the Conservatives that have me a bit worried and dismayed. This in and out cheat is a kick in the pants to me and all these negative ad campaigns are rediculous. The handing over control of meat inspection, or more control, is wrong. What are they thinking? This is not an area to be messed with. This country has enjoyed a high quality of foods in relation to most of the world. It's a matter of trust with it's people and this is a bad road to be wondering.