Skip navigation

 Login or Register | Member Centre

U.S. stoked Georgia war: Putin

JANE ARMSTRONG

Globe and Mail Update

Latest comment posted at 5:33 PM EST 28/08/08

Russian prime minister accuses Washington of orchestrating conflict in the Caucusas as an election ploy ...Read the full article

This conversation is closed

  1. Phil M from Toronto, Canada writes: Wow, bold claims from Russia. I'm a little skeptical that the republicans orchestrated this to benefit the McCain campaign (which seems to be Russia's implication). However, there's little doubt that the USA probably did much more to accelerate and inflame the situation than to stall and minimize it. Recognizing Kosovo, pushing for Georgia to join NATO, and making vast-yet-vague statements of support for Georgia's leadership (both in public and, I'm sure, in private).

    Still, if you're looking for countries to blame in this one, there's really no need to look beyond Georgia and Russia themselves, neither of which comported themselves in a responsible manner. The sad part is, irresponsible nuclear superpowers are kinda scary...
  2. Democrats - '08 - Liberals - '08 The return of prosperity to North America! from Canada writes: .

    Republican American operatives would never, ever, ever do this type of thing.

    They have no history of ever doing this, ever. No really, they would never do this.
  3. sweet mother in the morning from ex pat nf, Canada writes: I have a solution. Russia take your troops out of Georgia.
    U.S. take your missiles out of Poland. Simple is it not!
  4. j boland from United States writes: If Putin has a functional brain, and that is not at all obvious, he will find a quickly way out of this mess he has gotten his disfunctional nation into. He can never win a cold war and even he is not so stupid to start a hot one. His country now has something to lose from such barbaric behaviour, and it will happen. Somewhat to my surprise, the Europeans have actually been pretty much stand up in their condemnation.

    Bush was right to send in US warships. It was a message that the Ruskies understand. They could have blocked them, but they did not. That is the first sign that they realize they made a really studid move.

    His newly vocal foreign minister is a total jerk, and I predict he will be muffled within a week.
  5. Tiu Leek from T.O, Canada writes: 'When we Nuke Iran it would be cool to lobe a few towards Russia too! '

    Oh, now I get it. You've obviously a child. No adult who remembers the Cold War could be that stupid.
  6. Tiu Leek from T.O, Canada writes: 'Bush was right to send in US warships. It was a message that the Ruskies understand. '

    Which they responded to by recognizing Ossetia and Abkhazia, figuring that it was a message that the Americans would 'understand'.
  7. billy mac from Winnipeg, Canada writes: Hmmmmm, let me think now, how did Russia just happen to have 1000 plus tanks and over 15,000 men just standing by. And with all that has gone on there who was the real instigator? Mr. Putin is a wolf............look at his eye.
  8. Tiu Leek from T.O, Canada writes: The really strange thing is, you neocons don't really seem to fear the implications of a return to the Cold War.

    It's like it's all a big game to you.

    But one that couldn't possibly affect you personally. Not you.



  9. Mean Machine from Bugtussle, Canada writes: Putin's claim is loosely based on a partially true story.
  10. Tiu Leek from T.O, Canada writes: 'And with all that has gone on there who was the real instigator? '

    I'd say it was the guy who deliberately shelled what he claimed was his own territory and his own people.

    It's like you guys figure the more you repeat it, the fewer people will remember what actually happened.
  11. ss dd from Vancouver, Canada writes: Sure thing, comrade Putin. It all Bush fault.
    Just wonder why did it take you so long to figure it out... :-)

    Now, if only that Obama guy would win the next elections... though you won't be that lucky.
    Besides, McCain has a more interesting 'view' of your soul... :-)

    Now then, when do you plan invading Ukraine ?
  12. peter jones from Canada writes: why does anyone think Georgia is in Europe?
    Is Azerbajan in Europe?
    It is North of Turkey and Iraq and right next door to Iran..none of which are in Europe
  13. Michael Rudin from NY, United States writes: Tiu Leek from T.O, Canada I read the Russians news to make my decission and Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the US and UK are all wrong, Putin is a hero.
  14. evelyn robinson from Canada writes: Democrats - '08 - Liberals - '08 The return of prosperity to North America! from Canada writes: .

    Republican American operatives would never, ever, ever do this type of thing.

    They have no history of ever doing this, ever. No really, they would never do this.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Sarcasm I presume; one word Kuwait
  15. Tesla Pupin from Wallis And Futuna Islands writes: Bush was right to send in US warships.It was a message that the Ruskies understand.
    ===

    Oh yes, they understood the message. However it was a wrong message to send.
  16. Rabid Senses from Good gawd, a latte-swilling Westerner, Canada writes:

    Pancake Corrie from Canada writes: 'This is just food for the Left Wing Idiots. And Putin is playing a violin for them. FYI = Putin and Left Wing = Pinko.'
    ________________________________

    Ooooooooouch!

    Talk about a swing and a miss.

    Even worse, it's like tripping over home plate at the same time.

    (I, for one, give you full marks for the hatched effort)
  17. Tiu Leek from T.O, Canada writes: 'Hmmmmm, let me think now, how did Russia just happen to have 1000 plus tanks and over 15,000 men just standing by. And with all that has gone on there who was the real instigator? '

    Hmpf, that's kind of funny.

    Reminds me of that scene in 'Cruising', where the serial killer looks at his victim, stabs him through the heart and then says 'You made me do that...'

    You do notice the disconnect in what you've just said, right?

    All those tanks on his border, so it made perfect sense to Saskasvilli to attack Ossetia. Their overwhelming military superiority left him no choice but to attack...
  18. Comments closed, censored, deleted or made to disappear from Mini Bushland, Canada writes: So obvious! So obvious... and that is just the beginning. Will gain momentum as the campaign draws to a close. If only Western media had reported the events as they unfolded, in sequence, from cause to effect, for once, it would all be there for everyone to see.
  19. evelyn robinson from Canada writes: sweet mother in the morning from ex pat nf, Canada writes: I have a solution. Russia take your troops out of Georgia.
    U.S. take your missiles out of Poland. Simple is it not!

    lets not forget Georgia keep your troops out of Ossetia and do not attack a country because they do not want to be part of your country.
  20. Tesla Pupin from Wallis And Futuna Islands writes: Tiu Leek from T.O, Canada writes: The really strange thing is, you neocons don't really seem to fear the implications of a return to the Cold War.

    It's like it's all a big game to you.

    But one that couldn't possibly affect you personally. Not you.

    ===

    Actually it would (or it WILL should I say). They will benefit from it.
  21. Hal West from Kelowna, BC, Canada writes: NIce try by Putin to explain his troops actions into Georgia using the Olympic Opening for cover.

    But then one must always keep in mind that Putin was the Head of the KGB and a Leopard doesn't change it's spots.
  22. Tiu Leek from T.O, Canada writes: 'Actually it would (or it WILL should I say). They will benefit from it. '

    For the neocons on the board? Nah, to them it's not real: it's just a game.

    For the actual neocons currently running the US? They probably think it will benefit them, but then again, they're pretty delusional to begin with.
  23. Rabid Senses from Good gawd, a latte-swilling Westerner, Canada writes:

    Pancake Corrie from Canada writes: 'When we Nuke Iran it would be cool to lobe a few towards Russia too!'
    ___________________________________

    Why do we even pretend as a country that we are bereft of leadership at the federal level when we have such visionaries for our brave new world here among us?

    Damn, I guess I'm jealous because someone else thinks of all the coolest ideas first.

    (must be the 'lobe' that keeps getting in the way of my hearing new ideas)
  24. Festina Lente from United States writes: With a little more that the usual ambivulence on the veiled criticism of China and increased criticism from the Europe and the USA, Putin is using an old trick of trumping up some incident, like the passport, to rationalize his way out of this mess with the status quo. It really just proves that the SCO bunch isn't a treaty organization after all. With China apparently dissenting and a united front facing Putin, he apparently sees that the game is not played ala Stalin or the Czars. Europe's main concern is over energy woes and there will not insist on sanctions. Soon the situation will calm down until another one surfaces. Intersting how America's domestic politics came to the fore. The allegtions are just that as no sane observer would even consider it credible.
  25. Tiu Leek from T.O, Canada writes: 'NIce try by Putin to explain his troops actions into Georgia using the Olympic Opening for cover.'

    It was Saskavilli who said that, not Putin. Nice try, though.

    Interesting to see that there's already a disinformation campaign in progress. Reminds me a bit of '1984'.
  26. Charles Smith from United Kingdom writes: Putin sure give the USA a lot of credit - there must be much respect.
  27. The Wight from Canada writes: Tiu Leek

    Pancake Corrie is likely the same person who has signed on under dozens of different accounts, all with a similar style of name: BuB ImumI, BaB iMuMi, etc. That particular poster has harped on Rachel Corrie dozens upon dozens of times, just about every time going way over the line of decency.

    FYI for when you see the next permutation of the name. Accounts are like water to him, he just creates a new one when the latest one gets banned.

    NOTE TO THE G&M - ban the PERSON, not the account.
  28. Tiu Leek from T.O, Canada writes: 'The allegtions are just that as no sane observer would even consider it credible. '

    Actually, I suspect the real reason for making it was to just to cast doubt in the minds of Westerners.

    After all, by even responding to it, the US looks as though it could possibly be true.

    You know what this means, eh? Putin has learned the fine art of swiftboating. :)
  29. Jim Quinn from Canada writes: Auditions for Dumb and Dumber.

    There is a history of ethnic hatred and warfare dating back two thousand years. These two provinces should be autonomous. So Georgia invades, then Russia rises to the bait and now the US enters the fray.
  30. Vern Johnson from Canada writes: Putin may be partly right. The neo-cons of the Bush administration have been caught in so many lies about Iraq that Putin's ideas may well now be extremely plausible. Nobody would be surprised if the most recent press-spokesperson for the Bush administration, would blow the whistle once again and reveal the machinations behind the scene by Cheney and company. Reinforcing this idea is the fact that Poland, in the middle of all the bad publicity generated toward Russia, signed it's ABM agreement with the US apparently deciding not to drag out, any further, negotiations about the sweeteners it wanted from the US, ie the complete modernization of it's air force. So, one must ask, who told Saakashvili to proceed and who should go with him to the dock in The Hague? Hundreds of Dead South Ossetians are demanding a response and a little bit of justice. I hope Obama raises some doubts about US policy in that region of the world in his speech in Denver tonight and that it is not the simplistic black and white situation Biden spoke of yesterday.
  31. Good Times, my Ladies. from toronto, Canada writes: BBBBBrrrrrrr....

    Is any one else feeling the temperature dropping ...
  32. Tiu Leek from T.O, Canada writes: Except the US hasn't exactly entered the fray. They certainly haven't responded with force.

    In fact, about all the US has done to date is the equivalent of giving Russia the evil eye and swearing at them sotto voce.
  33. steve allan from Canada writes: Western governments might be opposed to Russia but the people of those countries to a large extent are supportive of Russia and opposed to the hypocrisy of their own governments.

    I suspect Russia knows it has the support of the vast majority of the people in the world. The situation is very similar to the Iraq war where most Western governments supported the invasion despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of Westeners were opposed to the invasion.

    There is a growing disconnect between Western governments and the people they are elected to govern. It augurs poorly for the future of democracy.
  34. Jah Nee Kah Sun from Canada writes: Bad Vlad's gonna be around for a looong time.
  35. Theo from Thule, Ontario. from Canada writes: It may look cute to someone to criticize Russia for these things except that NATO has done pretty much identical things in Serbia and its province Kosovo. And Russia's approach has arguably been more elegant, smooth, and peaceful. Also, the Ossetians and the Abkhazians are more justified to demand their own territory because they are authentic unique nations that have lived at those territories for centuries while 'Kosovars' are just a fake nation, a redundant copy of the Albanian nation that was allowed (and, indeed, encouraged) to propagate and reproduce (by Mussolini, among others) more than what would have been appropriate
  36. Tiu Leek from T.O, Canada writes: 'Western governments might be opposed to Russia but the people of those countries to a large extent are supportive of Russia and opposed to the hypocrisy of their own governments.'

    Oh no, I wouldn't go that far.

    Plenty of countries don't trust the US anymore, and have noted the hypocrisy.

    That doesn't mean that they've suddenly starting trusting Putin.
  37. Jim Roth from Victoria, Canada writes: Putin may very well be right, because it's hard to believe that the Georgian president would have launched his initial attack on Russian 'peacekeeping' troops without an OK from the U.S.
  38. kevin sign from toronto, Canada writes: You see everything bad (war) that happens in the world is all Bush's fault. This man created all this war. I don’t know how in their right mind in the usa voted for this man again. Everything is get worse since the sept 11, He planed all that and know he in going to be out of the white house you think that he card what happens.

    It is soon going to be WORLD WAR THREE, and Bush and his family will be in a bom proof mountain.

    I do not know why the hell is Canada gets involve with everything that the US does. We don&8217;t need the US. Canada has the hold world behind them. THE us CAN NO TDO ANYTHING TO CANADA .

    All the other country will turn on the US and if Canada countinus to follow everything that the US does they will also get it.

    The US thinks that they have all the power. Canada has much more power then they do. We have the whole world behind us.

    All the PM are loser they are affaried of teh US so they join them

    Bush did indeed have something to with the Russians and Georgia.
  39. ss dd from Vancouver, Canada writes: Jah Nee Kah Sun from Canada writes:
    Bad Vlad's gonna be around for a looong time.
    ...
    Hey, maybe he'll lose the next election, who knows.
    Didn't you notice ?
    Russia's a 'democracy' now... :-)
  40. Ipso Facto from Canada writes: I'm inclined to believe that Georgia is being played as a pawn in a game between the US and Russia, even if Georgia's government doesn't realize it. The US push for Georgia to join NATO can only be interpreted as a provocation of Russia. Which of the NATO members would seriously risk a war with Russia over Georgian territorial claims? Gwynne Dyer's Aug 10th column offers a good overview of the situation http://www.gwynnedyer.com/articles2008.htm
  41. Mr Malcontent from Canada writes: Putin is probably on track
    This bunch in the white house are such crocked lying suckers that they will do anything. I think Darth Vador is behind it all.
  42. Charles the Great from Canada from Canada writes: Putin says the United States Started this war? yeah right, he has made Russia into the former KGB own state. If NGOs don't agree with Putin. Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International are saying that Russia did start this war and these groups have no connection to the Bush Administration at all. Putin stop lying to the world when we all know you started this war.
  43. Andy X from Hamilton, Canada writes: 'David L Phillips, senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, told the Los Angeles Times last week he believes that, despite State Department efforts to restrain the Georgian president, 'Saakashvili's buddies in the White House and the Office of the Vice President kept egging him on.' '

    ___________________________________

    Above quoted from this article on ATimes (quite a few readers have cited it before already):

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central    Asia/JH26Ag02.html

    I think many would agree that the dodo that is GWB can't be seriously credited with coming up with such a bold scheme, although Dick the Vice surely possesses the diabolical instincts befitting of Goebbels.

    Moreover, guess where Karl was before the war?

    http://notionscapital.wordpress.com/2008/07/12/karl-in-the-crimea-rove-not-marx/
  44. SL S from Saskatchewan, Canada writes: What a 'no brainer'. Quite a story about the merely obvious.
  45. howler 00 from Canada writes: What on earth were 1000 (repeat 1000) Israeli military advisors doing Georgia and who decided that US taxpayers should foot the bill.

    And why aren't the advisors in Zimbabwe, Haiti?

    Oil baby, and not baby oil.

    For more just Google -- Georgia, Israeli military advisors
  46. Joseph Bloggins from Canada writes: sweet mother in the morning from ex pat nf, says 'I have a solution. Russia take your troops out of Georgia.
    U.S. take your missiles out of Poland. Simple is it not!'

    Perhaps in your simple mind. But you missed a couple of points. Russia is in Georgia against the wishes of the Georgia government.....the missiles are in Poland because of the wishes of the Polish government.

    Of course, much of the left wing media and mouthpieces in the west fawn all over Putin. I mean, Russia has always been a peace loving country....well except for a few slip ups.....like from 1917 onwards.
  47. Theo from Thule, Ontario. from Canada writes: Crimea (now in Ukraine) could follow, there are historical reasons to understand why it should belong to Russia and the status of Sevastopol may turn out to be ambiguous even from the current legal viewpoint. Transnistria is a de facto independent, pro-Russian strip that belongs to Moldova at present and Moscow may want to bring it closer, too, the Russians are already intensifying diplomatic turbulence in Transnistria.
    It is unlikely that too many other countries would join Russia in accepting the independence of Abkhazia and/or South Ossetia. On the other hand, I find this question pretty much inconsequential because Russia is who ultimately enforces the status quo in the region, much like NATO is doing the same thing on the territory of Yugoslavia.
  48. Andy X from Hamilton, Canada writes: Sorry, the bot botched up the link - this may work:

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central__Asia/JH26Ag02.html
  49. Andy X from Hamilton, Canada writes: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/JH26Ag02.html
  50. Jonny Quest from Canada writes: what is equally delicious about this is that Russia invoked the responsibility to protect agenda its need to save ethnic Russians

    a double blow for the liberal internationalists and legal globalists

    another win for the the realists
  51. The Middle Finger ..I.. from Canada writes: Cuba 1959, Chile 1973, Nicaragua 1980s, El Salvador 1980s, Grenada 1983, Haiti 1986, 1994 ............................................
  52. Theo from Thule, Ontario. from Canada writes: At this moment, It would be pure idiocy if NATO were trying to rearm Saakashvili because this guy will obviously lose any hypothetical future conflict with Russia, with a possible (but not guaranteed) exception of a full-scale world war. Russia has adopted the usual American nuclear doctrine, the right for preemptive nuclear strikes, half a year ago, and the fear of nuclear weapons has dropped dramatically since the 1980s, so we should be careful. NATO should stop provoking Russia in this obvious fashion and accept that Georgia continues to be a Russian backyard, a status it has enjoyed for centuries, much like e.g. South America is the U.S. backyard closed from the European powers, according to the 1823 Monroe doctrine. NATO needs Russia for many projects, including logistics for the war in Afghanistan. Cutting links with Russia could mean a defeat in Afghanistan, Russia wouldn't care, Meanwhile, Iran can do whatever it likes because people are looking elsewhere. Moreover, Russia is being pushed closer to Iran which is bad. In the U.S., it is apparently an example of bipartisan political correctness to be against Russia, and to assume that the U.S. can do anything in the Russian sphere of influence. This silly consensus is, of course, primarily created by the manipulative, dishonest media, and hundreds of millions of stupid people who uncritically believe what they read. They may be shocked by reality. And indeed, they should be. Posted by Lumo at 11:33 AM | 2 slow comments | fast comments (62) | Trackback (0) | Links to this post Other texts on similar topics: politics, Russia Sunday, August 24, 2008 ... ///// Richard Dawkins & Steven Weinberg on religion and science Playlist (8 parts, 85 minutes) These two prominent atheists, of course, share a lot of opinions. But you can see some
  53. Glynn W from Canada writes: Maybe Bush thought that the Russians were in Georgia, USA and that's why the response. Aid seems to have gone out to the Georgians faster that to the victims of Katrina!
  54. kevin sign from toronto, Canada writes: isn't there some way we can protest to not having anyrelations with the US
  55. Jonny Quest from Canada writes: Tiu Leek from T.O, Canada writes: 'Hmmmmm, let me think now, how did Russia just happen to have 1000 plus tanks and over 15,000 men just standing by. And with all that has gone on there who was the real instigator

    Russia has had troops and equipment in Ossetia for well over a decade and a half - invited there as peacekeepers by the Georgian govt.
  56. Iphigenia . from Aulis, Canada writes: We're all assuming that Putin meant that the provocation was in aid of McCain; but if anyone here caught Joe Biden's speech last night, it was he who swung hideously from talk of defending abused American women to the need to bomb Russian women. His warmongering in the last couple of minutes was scary.
    Obama isn't a peacenik. We all thought so; but the powers who are supporting him have plans for the world. Note that he has talked about pulling troops out of Iraq, but putting them into Afghanistan.
  57. Kothar Rumbleg from Canada writes: This but prooves the truth that the US and the Neo-cons in their desparation to remain in power with McCain, orchastraited this! Shame on the Neo-cons, Barrack and the Dems will toss this mass out to the trash where they belong.
  58. Tuth Pre from Belgium writes: Is USA steel looking for the weapons of the mass destruction in Iraq?
  59. F Isher from Canada writes: It doesn't matter which political liar is talking. They are all threatening peace and it's always the little guy that gets crushed
  60. The Middle Finger ..I.. from Canada writes: To Glynn W from Canada who wrote: Maybe Bush thought that the Russians were in Georgia, USA and that's why the response. Aid seems to have gone out to the Georgians faster that to the victims of Katrina!

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    That's because its easier to fix a refinery that is readily within your sphere of influence than to lose a pipeline that isn't.
  61. Glynn W from Canada writes: Joseph Bloggins from Canada- 'I mean, Russia has always been a peace loving country....well except for a few slip ups.....like from 1917 onwards'. You forgot the still fewer slip-ups of the West since 1517 onwards!
  62. Charles the Great from Canada from Canada writes: Theo from Thule, Ontario. from Canada writes: Crimea (now in Ukraine) could follow, there are historical reasons to understand why it should belong to Russia and the status of Sevastopol may turn out to be ambiguous even from the current legal viewpoint. _____ They might be russian but Russians in the Crimea don't see eye to eye with Moscow but the head of the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People Mustafa Abdülcemil Qırımoğlu stated 'recognition by Russia was a dangerous precedent, even for Russia itself, since there are many pro-independence moves inside the Russian Federation, including movements in Chechnya, Tatarstan and Bashkortostan. He expressed misgiving that the same situation could be repeated by Russia in Crimea (an autonomous republic within Ukraine) if Ukrainian authorities continue to be only a spectator' by they way they are ethic Russian. just to note in that case of being Neutral the source came from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Abkhazia_and_South_Ossetia but if you wikipedia has been proven an neutral source in time of conflict
  63. Leigh Broderick from Canada writes: The way he is blaming bush made me think he could be Canadian, but that went out the window when he didn't blame Harper and the current Canadian government. Although I am sure some of the usual suspect posters on these threads will do so soon.
  64. Save our Planet from Toronto, Canada writes: As a matter of principle I take Russia's word over Bush's any day. Not having to strategize for short term election gain allows Russia to accurately assess international situations.
  65. Patrick Cummins from Victoria, Canada writes: It's remarkable that this article doesn't mention even once that John McCain's chief foreign policy advisor, Randy Scheunemann, has worked as a paid lobbist for the government of Georgia (and done so at the same time as he was advising McCain).

    See: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/12/AR2008081202932_pf.html

    This is obviously who Putin is referring to. Indeed, it's not difficult to imagine the neo-conservative Scheunemann, (who also lobbied for the Iraq war), would see advantage in the Georgian government attack on South Ossetia.
  66. Charles the Great from Canada from Canada writes: steve allan from Canada writes: Western governments might be opposed to Russia but the people of those countries to a large extent are supportive of Russia and opposed to the hypocrisy of their own governments. I suspect Russia knows it has the support of the vast majority of the people in the world. The situation is very similar to the Iraq war where most Western governments supported the invasion despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of Westeners were opposed to the invasion. There is a growing disconnect between Western governments and the people they are elected to govern. It augurs poorly for the future of democrac ______ I don't agree with that statement most Western Media was getting most of their information from Russia's Inerfax news which is government own .
  67. kevin sign from toronto, Canada writes: you are 500% right
  68. Theo from Thule, Ontario. from Canada writes:
    'Charles the Great from Canada from Canada writes: Theo from Thule They might be russian but Russians in the Crimea don't see eye to eye with Moscow but the head of the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People Mustafa Abdülcemil Qırımoğlu stated 'recognition by Russia was a dangerous precedent, even for Russia itself, since there are many pro-independence moves inside the Russian Federation, including movements in Chechnya, Tatarstan and Bashkortostan. He expressed misgiving that the same situation could be repeated by Russia in Crimea (an autonomous republic within Ukraine) if Ukrainian authorities continue to be only a spectator' by they way they are ethic Russian. just to note in that case of being Neutral the source came from .
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I was trying to understand the ideological framework that leads so many people in the West to dismiss Russia as a 'country in decline' exactly at the moment when it's rising from its knees, regaining its lost self-confidence, and surpassing the world in the GDP growth as well as in its military flexibility and readiness.
  69. Andy X from Hamilton, Canada writes: Good point Iphigenia. I am still trying to figure out which of the two parties is for real, and which is just grand-standing for the politically obligatory.

    Now there is a chance that they are both for real when it comes to wanting to re-arm Georgia and shoving it into NATO.

    In that case, what can you do here in Canada? Oh well ...
  70. Number 1 Son from Toronto, Canada writes: McCain is involved....his foreign policy advisor, Randy Scheunemann, is a paid lobbyist for the Georgian government.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/12/AR2008081202932.html
  71. steve allan from Canada writes: The U.S. navy was supposed to unload 'humanitarian aid' in the Georgian port of Poti yesterday but when the Russians announced they would be inspecting the cargo they suddenly called off the operation.

    Very interesting. I suspect this so-called 'humanitarian aid' was likely destined for the Georgian army than it was to the people of Georgia. Why would the U.S. deliver humanitarian aid by ship when it could do so by air? Very simple, because it wasn't humanitarian aid by heavy armour such as tanks and missile defence systems.
  72. Leigh Davies from Canada writes: Have another Vodka, Vladimir!
  73. Iphigenia . from Aulis, Canada writes: Patrick Cummins reminds us that John McCain's chief foreign policy advisor, Randy Scheunemann, has deep connections with Georgia. I remember reading that days ago.

    I stand corrected. It was likely in aid of McCain; Joe Biden's warmongering was likely just an attempt to get in on the lee side of the prevailing wind.
  74. Theo from Thule, Ontario. from Canada writes: Russian Parliament (Council of Federation) has voted unanimously (130-0) to ask President Medvedev to recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent countries. Medvedev will have to think twice. The recognition of their independence would mean a change of their policy: they opposed the independence of Kosovo. But because the world, including Russia, is slowly accepting that Kosovo has become an independent country, the situation has changed. I would find it natural (and more stable) for Russia to recognize the independence, organize a speedy referendum, and attach those provinces to the Russian Federation. A re-unification is particularly natural for Ossetia. As everyone who understands politics a bit has always known, the Kosovo independence has sparked a avalanche of declarations of independence. Czech president Václav Klaus emphasized the role of Kosovo as a precedent from the very beginning. Russia Today has predicted South Ossetia and Abkhazia as the first places to follow Kosovo's example as early as February. I would expect Nagorno-Karabakh to be the next de facto independent country that might be recognized, because of their geographic proximity to the current main epicenter of events. Azerbaijan is already talking about it: its officials are now scared like hell. I believe that the independence of Nagorno-Karabakh - or its unification with Armenia - is a good thing for Moscow because Armenia is friendlier to Russia than Azerbaijan and they might want to recognize their separation from Azerbaijan, too.
  75. J M from Realityville, Canada writes: More proof that Bush and his cabal are intent on starting a world wide conflict using every method at their disposal. I suspect they might try bombing Tibet next to see if that gets somebody riled up enough for the conflict that they want. McCain wants to be the war president just like Nixon when he invaded Vietnam.
  76. Charles the Great from Canada from Canada writes: Theo from Thule, Ontario. from Canada writes: I was trying to understand the ideological framework that leads so many people in the West to dismiss Russia as a 'country in decline' exactly at the moment when it's rising from its knees, regaining its lost self-confidence, and surpassing the world in the GDP growth as well as in its military flexibility and readiness. __________________________________ The reason is because we in the West Know that Putin is the person that controls everything in Russia including media, and including President Dmitry Medvedev, it is very odd that he a friend and was a legal expert when Putin was mayor of Saint Petersburg. It easy to make this up when all of Putin's Friends control everything for him. It also easy for a Prime Minister to control the President they seem to both have a close history.
  77. Antonio San from Canada writes: US and EU are getting the change for the Kosovo, with interests...
  78. Festina Lente from United States writes: Tuth Pre from Belgium: No, Tuth Pre, the US is looking for them in the Belgium Congo!
  79. Charles the Great from Canada from Canada writes: steve allan from Canada writes: Very interesting. I suspect this so-called 'humanitarian aid' was likely destined for the Georgian army than it was to the people of Georgia. Why would the U.S. deliver humanitarian aid by ship when it could do so by air? Very simple, because it wasn't humanitarian aid by heavy armour such as tanks and missile defence systems. Why? The United States has no history of using humanitarian aid to smuggle in weapons into any country in the History of the Modern world, but Russia has been known to do that. Are to you getting Russia confuse with the United States?
  80. NOTAFAN OFTHEFEDS from Canada writes: It won't be so easy to bully Russia, considering that they could nuke every US and Euro city 10 times. Maybe Gorgia should have stayed the hell out of its neighbors. FYI Bush is an idiot!
  81. steve allan from Canada writes: Charles the Great - your posts are so silly that I can only think that you've spent most of your life living in blissful ignorance. Keep dreaming pal.
  82. Othello Leblanc from United States writes: Methinks Putin and Bush are cut from the same disingenuous cloth.

    And it's a stretch to see Putin as dumber than Bush, yet yapping off on the matter doesn't sound like too clever an idea. It's very clear that Bush Administration will be trying to push the buttons of both international and domestic boogeymen throughout the campaign to help McCain. Putin's commentary make it clear that he has taken the bait.
  83. Antonio San from Canada writes: Charles or Steve Allan, who knows? Steve raises a very logical point and Charles 'moral' point seems a bit naive in the order of politics... Perhaps military hardware was not the problem but more sophisticated softwares and listening devices...
  84. Bob McDonald from Canada writes: Commentators keep refering to Putin's KGB experience but they don't mention that Bush's dad was head of the CIA.

    Partisans just don't see that the US and Russia have a lot of things in common. Its just those similarities that makes Putin's accusations so serious. He may be wrong but he should be taken seriously.
  85. Bill G from Calgary, Canada writes: Putin is KGB and wants to resurrect the Soviet Union. He cannot be trusted. Watch for the Ukraine and Latvia to be next.
  86. howler 00 from Canada writes: Yes, Randy must have been one of the ones who lined up the 1000 Israeli advisors and the US taxpayer money to support.

    Reminds of what Hill and Knowlton are doing in Ottawa for the Canadian Forces

    From Wikipedia

    While the foreign affairs advisor to Republican presidential candidate John McCain, Scheunemann was also a registered foreign agent (lobbyist) for the Republic of Georgia[5] [6]

    On April 17, 2008, McCain spoke on the phone with Georgia President Mikheil Saakashvili about Russian efforts to gain leverage over two of Georgia's troubled provinces. That same day, McCain issued a public statement condemning Russia and expressing strong support for the Georgian position. Also on that same day, Georgia signed a new, $200,000 lobbying contract with Scheunemann's firm, Orion Strategies. Scheunemann remained with Orion Strategies until May 15, when the McCain campaign imposed a tough new anti-lobbyist policy and he was required to separate himself from the company.[7]

    In mid-July 2008, The Sunday Times linked Scheunemann to Stephen Payne, a lobbyist covertly filmed as he offered to arrange meetings with Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, and others, in exchange for donations to the George W. Bush Presidential Library. Payne said Scheunemann had been 'working with me on my payroll for five of the last eight years.' [8]
  87. Charles the Great from Canada from Canada writes: steve allan from Canada writes: Charles the Great - your posts are so silly that I can only think that you've spent most of your life living in blissful ignorance. Keep dreaming pal.
    ---------------------------------------

    Really but you give no evidence to what you say. Even groups such as Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International and these groups would report something like that so 'Very simple, because it wasn't humanitarian aid by heavy armour such as tanksand missile defence systems.' There is no evidence of that going on and but again most of the western coverage of this conflict got their sources from Russia's Inferfax and so did the globe and mail did their sources from Russia's interfax which is based in Moscow. When it comes to your blissful ignorance it is noted
  88. L.B. MURRAY from !! from Canada writes: ----------------------------------- Pray tell... what else have ChaneyBushRice been doing.... dissing and bashing and looking for trouble with their Rice going on to sign some ''agreements'' with some Eastern bloc country, thereby giving ChaneyBush permission to deploy missiles.... right next-door to Russia...

    Come on.... what did you expect.... Did you BushieBotsChaneyBots expect that Russia would just lie down and say ''yes sir'' or ''yes maam''....

    Now, the question is, what other absolutely obnoxious plans do ChaneyBush have in store for us before they retire. ChaneyBush have their retirement plans all perfectly mapped and worked out, with one of them moving to Dubai, right smack in the Oil country emirate or whatever they call themselves, and the other has bought a few thousand acres of horse ranch in South America, right in the middle of a country with ''NO EXTRADITION'' agreements with the USA....

    Now... that says it all there is to say.

    Good night.

    -
  89. Vickky Angstrom from Canada writes: Wow indeed! That was a heck of a statement by Putin.

    The US and Russia are perfect mirrors of each other. Chances are they are both lying. But Putin is playing with fire, because if he angers the American hawks right before an election, he may make them even more extreme. They may discover that he has weapons of mass destruction hidden up his _______ along with his head.

    This is like one of those hilarious contests where you try to choose between two horrible outcomes. In this case the question is who is more dangerous and careless with human life. Except its not funny because it is real.
  90. Major Pain from Canada writes: Who knows if Putin's assertions are true? However, the fact that such a thing is plausible speaks volumes about the corrupt and evil little men running the USA right now.
  91. A. Be from Switzerland writes: Joseph Bloggins from Canada: 'Perhaps in your simple mind. But you missed a couple of points. Russia is in Georgia against the wishes of the Georgia government.....the missiles are in Poland because of the wishes of the Polish government.'

    ...and the Georgians were governing (by military force south O) by the wishes of the south O people right??? Is that where you were leading it?

    Best thing Canada has been doing recently is decreasing its dependancy on the US economy...another 50 years and we can make our own decisions right as the US fades from view.
  92. Jonny Quest from Canada writes: was trying to understand the ideological framework that leads so many people in the West to dismiss Russia as a 'country in decline' exactly at the moment when it's rising from its knees, regaining its lost self-confidence, and surpassing the world in the GDP growth as well as in its military flexibility and readiness.

    ______True enough and oil money has made that possible - that's why the EU was virtually silent on this.

    Still alcoholism, unemployment, high inflation and a population decline are not helping Russian growth. Perhaps a leaner Russia will be a country that can be engaged on more realistic terms- being smaller by population can't hurt.
  93. L.B. MURRAY from !! from Canada writes: P.S. I forgot to mention...................................
    If one of you ChaneyBushDefenders have enough cash to plan for a golden retirement, here are two (2) absolutely failproof choices:

    DUBAI, where one of the ChaneyBush is going to retire, with surf, sand, sea, plenty of oil, and the other choice is some country in SOUTH AMERICA, where you could buy thousands of acres in a country with ''No Extradition'' to the USA....

    Choice is yours, folks.... that is, if you have plenty of cash, or plenty of cash to hide from the Taxman in Canada or the USA, or plenty of cash acquired by ''grey market'' means....you know what I mean, don't ya!!

    Good night.

    -
  94. Old Edmonton Man from Edmonton, Canada writes: Putin, you are so right.
  95. Flat Earth Society from Canada writes: Interesting claim by Putin, although most likely false. He knows how bad GWB's reputation is and is taking advantage that many might believe this.

    Putin's personality isn't far off from GWB's but only more dangerous as his term isn't capped at 8 years.
  96. Patrick Cummins from Victoria, Canada writes: I have to say that G&M reporting is getting pretty thin.

    It's simply unbelievable that this article could be written without so much as mentioning that John McCain chief foreign policy advisor (Randy Scheunemann) was a lobbist for the government of Georgia. It was hardly a secret - the Washington Post reported on this extensively.

    Now I don't believe that Condeleeza Rice was telling Saakashvili to attack S. Ossetia (maybe just the opposite is true). This is after all something that Saakashvili wanted to do anyway. But it's certainly imaginable that Scheunemann would encourage him, and tell Saakashvili that he could depend on strong support from the US and from John McCain, who could also stand to benefit.
  97. ss dd from Vancouver, Canada writes: In other news:
    ...
    'Reports have begun to circulate in Moscow that Russian oil companies are under orders from the Kremlin to prepare for a supply cut to Germany and Poland through the Druzhba (Friendship) pipeline. It is believed that executives from lead-producer LUKoil have been put on weekend alert.'
    ...
    'Such action would be seen as economic warfare but Russia has been infuriated by Nato meddling in its 'backyard' and threats of punitive measures by the EU. Foreign minister Sergei Lavrov yesterday accused EU diplomats of a 'sick imagination'.'

    more at:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/money/2008/08/29/cnrussia129.xml

    These guys are such nice chaps. A pleasure doing business with them... And the name of that pipeline, Friendship... just lovely... :-)

    Trying to do business with Russia is a total waste of time and money. They are thugs, bullying and threatening is all they know...

    Now, about that Obama vs McCain election... whom do you think will be favoured by such Russian economic warfare ?... ;-)
  98. Glynn W from