Skip navigation

 Login or Register | Member Centre

Deere to close Ontario plant, move work south

GREG KEENAN

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 11:08 AM EST 07/09/08

About 800 workers affected at factory for utility vehicles, production to shift to Wisconsin, Mexico ...Read the full article

This conversation is closed

  1. Tom Morrison from Calgary, Canada writes: Globalizatian, a high loonie, and cheap labour = doom for the Canadian manufacturing sector.
  2. R. M. from Regina, Canada writes: The Liberals would ensure a 65 cent dollar so we can be the Mexico of the north again. Our economy is too strong and options too close at hand.
  3. Harmin Brampton from toronto, Canada writes: thats another blow to ontario families. this is all due to bad govt policies , they are unable to lure business. if they cant do anything to dollor, they can certainly reduce taxes.
  4. Ob Server from Canada writes: What drives me CRAZY is that we always find out about closings and layoffs via a company announcement. WHERE OH WHERE is McWhimpy and what is he and our government doing to either try and keep these jobs OR failing that, replace them....other than ramping up public service jobs which is just creating higher taxes?
  5. Badges? We don't need no stinking badges from Canada writes: I work in a Toyota forktruck assembly plant and we've laid off over 100 guys, the wages have been frozen, and now our American counterparts are video-taping, and documenting our production methods and procedures. Better update the resume' !!
  6. Webby 99 from Vancouver, Canada writes:
    So can't we compete? Maybe not with Mexican labour, but Wisconsin labour & inputs? Maybe we've relied on a $0.65 dollar to hide lack of productivity? Our corporate taxes are now nearly on par with the US, so why can't we compete with a par dollar? Are wages higher in Canada? Productivity lower? Historically that has been true, but is it still?
  7. G allen from Halifax, Canada writes: The only surprise is that a lot more manufacturers are not gone already.

    A profit at a 65 cent dollar easily becomes a loss at a 95 cent dollar (much less a par dollar).

    Ontario manufacturer costs have to be cut to be competitive. Cut the taxes or the wages or both and then we might compete.
  8. J M from Calgaristan, Canada writes: Harper's war on Ontario continues. It's the price to be paid for rewarding Big Oil at the expense of Ontario.
  9. Canadian Cynic from Canada writes: This is what happens when you tie your currency to big petro. The same thing happened to the Netherlands. A one trick pony is just that. More of the same to come with Harper and Flaherty and their disregard for Ontario manufacturing.

    Another triumph for free trade, aka cheap labour and globalization.

    You get what you vote for, remember that.
  10. Marty York from Canada writes: War on Ontario? You mean because the dollar was rising because the deficit was eliminated and debt paydown? The dollar is back to 93 cents. I would blame it on the company, not politics. What is the government supposed to do? I would suggest all Canadian farmers boycott this company if they feel that strongly. Good grief, some people will blame everything on the government, it is so much easier than corporate or personal accountability.
  11. Marty York from Canada writes: JM, what political party is in Ontario, and which one before that? Hmm... socialists?
  12. Peter Wojnar from Hamilton, Canada writes:

    Congratulations Dalton McGuinty.

    Another victim of Liberal tax and spend policies.
  13. Mark H from Canada writes: Nothing runs like a Deere. Except McGuinty from reality.
  14. Ray Crawford from Toronto, Canada writes: About 3 years ago I spent some time in Ohio on business over a period of several months. Every time that I returned to that state, more companies had ceased operation or moved to other states. What happened in Ohio is now happening in Ontario. There's no end in sight because Ontario companies are non-competitive because of the high dollar. And please, don't blame Alberta. They don't set the world price of oil. OPEC does. Ontario companies should have seen this coming. They didn't and now it's hasta la vista, amigos.
  15. Pete H from Canada writes: J M from Calgaristan, Canada writes: Harper's war on Ontario continues. It's the price to be paid for rewarding Big Oil at the expense of Ontario.
    Do you actually believe that? If so, explain or just proceed your post with, 'another pronouncement from Partisan Hack.'
  16. John Clark from Edmonton, Canada writes: This is hardly new stuff.
    In Alberta, A office furniture company in Calgary ran 3 shifts over 7 days taking over the manufacturing of 7 similar companies in the US. Our 65 cent dollar gave them huge advantages to be here. When our dollar went up to where it should have been, 85 cents, the place closed down entirely and the manufacturing went back to newly opened plants in the US.

    Like wise the newspaper suppliers. The smoker were shut down in Canada and the manufacture went to the Wisconsin plants.

    I don't know there is a cure but I do know things are going to get a hellova lot worse if Harper gets his majority as predictions are going now.

    We are on the cusp of a global recession, possibly depression that will tell the tale over the winter and Harper wants to avoid that. On that note I would probably have fun with Harper at a game but his drive is to make us the 51st state.
  17. bill johnson from What caused the loss?, Canada writes: This is a tragic loss with many affected. It is high time McGuinty started doing something in this province - other than spending health care payroll taxes on sewerage systems, road paving, and, of course, the Sri Lankan Cricket Club.

    McGuinty: just not up to the job. Mike Harris was right all along!
  18. M Lennox from Toronto, Canada writes: This is a big blow to people of Niagara which have long been suffering from a failing manufacturing sector. It wasn’t long ago that GM was the largest regional employer, today it&8217;s the Casino.

    The Welland manufacturing facility was a great plant as well. When I was studying engineering we took a tour of this plant because it was a textbook example of automation and facilities management.
  19. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: To all of those blaming Harper, or McGuinty...or whomever your favorite politician to hate is...you might spend some time to educate yourselves on something generally called the 'Canada-US Productivity Gap.' Canada's has been consistently declining in productivity with respect to the US since the late 70's. Lots of governments, parties, PM's and Premiers you can then include in your partisan rants.
  20. wayne ouellette from Canada writes: Ontario voters!!!! This is what you get for giving dalton mcguinty the keys to the house. By the time these idiots realize Rome is Burning it will be too late.
  21. George Levecque from Fergus, Ontario, Canada writes: Its not right that Canadians should subsidize Auto and other manufactures due to our high dollar, we have a lot of natural resources and its about time that Canadians benefit from these God given resources, we should also take charge of the Petrol works like they do in some Countries that have lots of Oil and Gas, again Canadians need not share with greedy companies, right now all the Pipelines from Western Canada go straight South, they should be coming East to benefit all Canada not just a few people in Alberta and Sask!
    Its too bad that Canadian dont have a Political Party that stands up for Canada, instead of being willy nilly with our natural resources!
  22. Combative American from Minneapolis, United States writes: You can thank your tax-and- spend liberals who have traditionally been in power in that province for many years. This has been going on in Ontario for quite awhile now, and is a direct result of both Canadian and American business habits and policies.

    As we prosper - so too do you. When we don't - you don't either. Traditionally, anyways..
  23. NOTAFAN OFTHEFEDS from Canada writes: Lets see, according to the CFIB, the Chambers of Commerce, the Fraser Inst and of course the business lobby we need more immigration. Yip, more people to compete for a job in the shrinking manufaturing sector. We all know the puppit Harper and his whiplashed Conservatives answer to the above mentions lobby groups. We know if the clowns are re-elected immigration will continue to outpace job growth, soon job contraction. Some of us even know that under the clowns Canada's economic growth is now at the bottom of the pack, only suprassed by Italy, a country with no oil, water, gas, minerals, etc.
  24. Webby 99 from Vancouver, Canada writes:
    To George: 1. pipelines have to go south (they actually go southeast to Chicago then New Orleans etc) because that's where the refineries are. What would the East do with raw crude oil? But it's a good question why new refineries havne't been built. 2. The Canadian market is too small. We keep all oilsands to ourselves - that's great - but watch our standard of living drop. We sell it (although it's not a value added product) but it increases our coffers and that helps government spending.
  25. Webby 99 from Vancouver, Canada writes: Not sure what this has to do with Alberta. The Canadian dollar's increase has nothing to do with the government besides maintaining a reasonable monetary policy. It's a free floating exchange rate folks.

    I still don't know why we can't compete with the US when our dollar is at par?

    Forget blaming the government or Alberta or whatever - can someone just give an opinion why a plant in Ontario can't compete with a plant in Wisconsin? Taxes are now very similar. Dollar is now very similar. So what is it?
  26. rich fallis from Marshall WI, United States writes: It is good news that Wisconsin will be picking up some jobs from Ontario. We will bury YOU!

    Ontario is in deep trouble. First, your debt if you include Ontario Hydro is high enough to sink entire countries--not to mention a province.

    Second, Ontario's share of the North American auto parts business has been shrinking since the 1990's. Now the shrink is becoming shrunk. Autoparts was your saving strength. Now...?

    Third, your commodities are highly volatile and are not the key to a future. The TSX dropped 450 points today cuz of commodities. How many trees does it take to buy a car?

    That's the equation you should consider. But don't.

    Just listen to the CBC for a week (if you can stand it) and you'll see a long line of stories about the lack of a government program here, or the need to beef up another one there. Or more services for the French rump.

    Nowhere...not even in the wonderful Globe and Mail or National Post will you find someone asking this: Canada is the world's largest wood producer...yet it has never built a chain-saw. Why?

    So until you answer that question, we in Wisconsin, thank-you for the jobs and prosperity you have sent our way.

    It is after-all what good neighbors do for one another.

    :)
  27. Hugo Hall from Calgary, Canada writes: Far be it for me to defend Dalton McGuinty, but provincial NDP leader Howard Hampton's blaming the job losses on the lack of a jobs strategy by the provincial government is absolute nonsense. If the NDP were running Ontario, their 'jobs strategy' would have been to raise taxes on businesses and individuals to fund increased social program spending, make it easier to unionize and banning of replacement workers in strikes. The result would have been far worse job losses than Ontario is seeing now. Don't believe me? Look at the damage the former Bob Rae NDP - arguably the most incompetent provincial government in Canadian history - did to Ontario in the '90s. Even more outrageous is the partisan clowns blaming this on the Federal government. The federal government has no control over external factors such as the price of oil, corresponding difficulties of North American car companies, slowing economic growth around the globe or even to a degree the rise of the Canadian dollar. Furthermore, in the past Canadian manufacturers have been far too dependent on a depreciated dollar...they should have, and could have, seen this coming, and a rising dollar is actually a good thing. I would rather a 95-cent dollar forcing Ontario manufacturers to improve their efficiency than them relying on a 65-cent dollar that will erode consumer spending power.
  28. steve allan from Canada writes: rich fallis from Marshall WI, United States - hey Yank, go troll somewhere else. A swift swing of a baseball bat right across the back of your head would solve whatever problem it is you have!!
  29. Trudeau's Apricot poodle from Canada writes: Ontario will eventually learn that it has to be competitive. It is not possible to tax itself to prosperity or legislate common sense. Perhaps, like art, manufacturing must suffer. So far the only creative effort shown is the olympic quality excuse hurling and hand wringing.
  30. Foggytown Jones from Niagara, Canada writes: I moved from NB to Welland (one depressed economy to another I suppose) for work back in 2004. This news will hit this area very hard. As an outsider the one thing I noticed was how engrained the old 'steel town' mentality is here. The city tries it best to improve things for its residents but it seems to be going it alone...no real support from the provincial or federal government.

    I've really enjoyed my time here in Welland but if my employer were to leave, I would have to go to...sad day for Welland and Niagara today.
  31. rich fallis from Marshall WI, United States writes: Now isn't that an interesting comment? So Canadian...defining oneself by what you are not, and then threatening violence with a baseball bat into the bargain.

    Of course, since they won't let you have guns to protect yourself from omni-present government tax and grab artists...I guess you'll have to use what is at hand.

    Like the old Red Rose commercial. 'Only in Canada!'

    Frankly, I think people should be able to say whatever they want. Here in the US, we have a strong market-place of ideas. But let's say instead of using the word 'yank', we inserted say a racial slur?

    I wunder what the folks up there who are so very tolerant and at the same time, always hurt and abused by somebody or else...would have to say about that?
  32. Winston Smith from Canada writes: The branch plant economic model is broken. This is the resulting fallout for relying on American corporations for Canadian jobs for decades. Time to get off our butts and make something ourselves.
  33. Frank Godfrey from Canada writes: Used to be, and not that long ago, that people in Ontario were Canadians first. The luxury of feeling that way is slipping away. You can blame Harper, McGuinty, the unions or whatever tickles your fancy, but no one factor is to blame. We have a long, long way to go before we catch up to Quebec, but maybe it's time for an Ontario Inc. to promote the ' provincial ' interest.
  34. Darrin Duell from Canada writes: rich fallis from Marshall WI, United States writes: It is good news that Wisconsin will be picking up some jobs from Ontario. We will bury YOU! Ontario is in deep trouble. First, your debt if you include Ontario Hydro is high enough to sink entire countries--not to mention a province. Second, Ontario's share of the North American auto parts business has been shrinking since the 1990's. Now the shrink is becoming shrunk. Autoparts was your saving strength. Now...? Third, your commodities are highly volatile and are not the key to a future. The TSX dropped 450 points today cuz of commodities. How many trees does it take to buy a car? That's the equation you should consider. But don't. Just listen to the CBC for a week (if you can stand it) and you'll see a long line of stories about the lack of a government program here, or the need to beef up another one there. Or more services for the French rump. Nowhere...not even in the wonderful Globe and Mail or National Post will you find someone asking this: Canada is the world's largest wood producer...yet it has never built a chain-saw. Why? So until you answer that question, we in Wisconsin, thank-you for the jobs and prosperity you have sent our way. It is after-all what good neighbors do for one another. ------------------------------------------ Best Post! unfortunately mr fallis is correct, overdependence on government is killing our country. Swallow your pride and learn from Alberta.
  35. Darrin Duell from Canada writes: rich fallis from Marshall WI, United States writes: It is good news that Wisconsin will be picking up some jobs from Ontario. We will bury YOU! Ontario is in deep trouble. First, your debt if you include Ontario Hydro is high enough to sink entire countries--not to mention a province. Second, Ontario's share of the North American auto parts business has been shrinking since the 1990's. Now the shrink is becoming shrunk. Autoparts was your saving strength. Now...? Third, your commodities are highly volatile and are not the key to a future. The TSX dropped 450 points today cuz of commodities. How many trees does it take to buy a car? That's the equation you should consider. But don't. Just listen to the CBC for a week (if you can stand it) and you'll see a long line of stories about the lack of a government program here, or the need to beef up another one there. Or more services for the French rump. Nowhere...not even in the wonderful Globe and Mail or National Post will you find someone asking this: Canada is the world's largest wood producer...yet it has never built a chain-saw. Why? So until you answer that question, we in Wisconsin, thank-you for the jobs and prosperity you have sent our way. It is after-all what good neighbors do for one another. ------------------------------------------ Best Post! unfortunately mr fallis is correct, overdependence on government is killing our country. Swallow your pride and learn from Alberta.
  36. Marty York from Canada writes: rich fallis, your gloating at the expense of a loss of jobs does not appear to be appreciated. Would you be so open minded if people start laughing at the subprime crisis and 25 to 50 percent fall in property values in many areas of the U.S.? Or the fact that we have to pray for hurricane gustav to lessen before it hits the USA, for the protection of people and property and to ensure your refineries (which should never have been built in that location in the first place). Never built a chainsaw? Your ignorance extends far beyond what Canada manufactures. Just remember who won the war.
  37. Marty York from Canada writes: Rich Fallis, what is the current fiscal deficit for the USA this year? 400 billion? Total debt, 5 trillion? How does that compare to Ontario? I don't always agree with our friends and neighbors in Ontario, but they belong to the same country as I, and Alberta. To take criticism from someone who's own fiscal house is out of order? The only thing I ever hear from Wisconson is the 70's show, cheeseheads and useless Green Bay fans.
  38. mike h from Canada writes: While it will be tough on the families at first, there are plenty of jobs out West to move to. Canada is moving away from standard manufacturing - such low value contributors to the economy will start to dispaear as the service economy takes over, no great loss here (outside of Ontario), when you look at the big picture. No country ever got rich from a low dollar and low value industry, and Canada, as a country that is growing rich, is accordingly starting to lose this.
  39. A Realist from Canada writes: The sad part is, unskilled labour was led by people that suggested the gravy train would continue indefinitely. If your job requires no skills, start looking to upgrade your skills because you are doomed.

    Ultimately, consumers decide which products survive, which is largely based on the cost of the product. And labour comprises a significant component of cost.
  40. steve allan from Canada writes: rich fallis from Marshall WI, United States - yeah people should be able to say what they want, I basically agree.

    That's why I say all the time that your country is garbage and so are you Americans. You're a bunch of snivelling cowards who are only good at attacking poor countries incapable of defending themselves. That's why you went to war with Iraq but will never go to war with Russia.

    Remember Yank, your country is falling apart fast and the rest of the world is enjoying the show!!
  41. wes maksymetz from tarsandistan, Canada writes: Amazing, up hear in the tar sands there are hundreds of pieces of Cat equipmment, 400 ton trucks, bulldozers, loaders etc. etc. I quess they have no loyalty to a country that is their major market. Screw them, lets import Hitachis Mitsubshis etc etc. You don't want to build them here, we don't want your junk.

    WE NEED A LITTLE NATIONALISM
  42. CallofDuty . from Toronto, Canada writes: You folks in the west should stop giving false hopes.
  43. scott thomas from Canada writes: And Flaherty's economic strategy is nada. It astonishes me that the cons have a rep for economic smarts when the facts are otherwise - dipping into deficit two months in a row this spring.
  44. god bless canada from medicine hat,alberta, Canada writes: and it will only get worse if obama gets in all jobs will be sent back to the usa or he will impose heafty fines on companys. its time to wake up people buy canadian only stop the walmarts time to ramp up dutys on farm equipment not made in canada unless there is a percentage made in canada . yes it will cost you a litle more but in the end you will gain a better economy
  45. bill johnson from Quebec, Canada writes: Rich...I think America is a great, great country. I was educated there, in part. I don't think it is in good taste to ridicule any jurisdiction that experiences job loss. Certainly the USA has felt its share of damage from offshore movement of manufacturing jobs. Jobs in Ontario today, Wisconsin tomorrow, eventually in Mexico or Vietnam. Also, we have manufacturing crisis in Ontario today, but you have ABCP and its attendant crises in foreclosures and now auto loans and probably credit cards. From what I have read, the bottom is still some distance away for the ABCP crisis. This will mean many more American thrown out of their homes, which I think is tragic.
    _________________________________________________________
    That said, it is high time Canadians looked at the enormous debt accumulated by different provinces. Ontario really is digging itself into a hole that it might not get out of. Anyone in Ontario need only look at their hydro bill to see the legacy of Hydro debt. Dalton didn't create the problem, but neither is he doing anything to resolve it. Surplus money intended to pay down debt was just sent to cities for infrastructure spending. Someone needs to cut up our provincial credit cards.
  46. George Smith from Canada writes: NAFTA - The gift that keeps on giving.

    Thanks Mulroney.
  47. Dude From The Bronx from Madison, WI, United States writes: That's it! Canada and the US should place a ten-year moratorium on immigration altogether. If we're gonna lose jobs, we could at least eliminate some competition in the job market. I can't believe Mexicans are still sneaking into the US-and Canada-while they're getting all our jobs down there. Where will it end?
  48. bob london from Canada writes: Good Job McGuinty!!!! Someone call 911, I think he is missing from the province.
  49. Frank Godfrey from Canada writes: Mike H, ' Canada is moving away from standard manufacturing - such low value contributers to the economy ', and, ' as the the service economy takes over, no great loss here ( outside of Ontario ), when you look at the big picture '. What big picture, Mike ?
  50. boz dobbs from toronto, Canada writes: Don,t worry workers,just knock on Dalton,s door.I,m sure there are plenty of policy research analysts jobs around Queen.s Park.
  51. K D from Canada writes:
    Meanwhile, Dalton does nothing as usual!!!!!!!!!

    What a useless tool.
  52. Bill M from Canada writes: George Smith from Canada writes: NAFTA - The gift that keeps on giving. Thanks Mulroney.

    Don't forget to thank Chretien and Martin who campaigned and won on a promise to scrap it, along with the GST.
  53. Captain Ron from Canada writes: Buzz Hargrove is going to fight to keep the plant open. Look in the mirror Buzz. No CAW in Mexico - just people who want to work.

    Rich Fallis is right. The CBC (if you can stomach it) will have the answer - more government intervention. Perhaps legislation to make the unions stronger. Strong unions have hurt this country beyond comprehension but there is little hope of change.

    We should all get well-paid useless government jobs. You too can join the union elite.
  54. Brad Wood from Houston, United States writes: I guess the lazy over paid workers took their last coffee break.
  55. Child of the North in Canada from Canada writes: The jobs will continue to move to poorer jurisdictions like Wisconsin and Mexico as long as big business runs the show. Jobs will leave Ontario to go where conditions are such that they can pay less, not provide healthcare or pension benefits and not worry about safety.

    The Republicans loved all the illegal immigrants sneaking across the border allowing a vast supply of cheap wages and poor working conditions for business. Harper would love to do this for his business friends in Canada. I hope Canadians wake up and smell the coffee faster than the idiot Americans have. They have had eight years with Bush of big business running the show driving down the middle class standard of living and look like they may elect Bush's sidekick, McCain.
  56. Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: Winston Smith from Canada writes: 'The branch plant economic model is broken. This is the resulting fallout for relying on American corporations for Canadian jobs for decades. Time to get off our butts and make something ourselves.'

    ============================================

    Branch plants are what we had pre-FTA. They existed because of tariff barriers, which made it cheaper to produce a small amount of product here, as opposed to paying duty on products imported from the US. The FTA got rid of that arrangement, so while some Canadian plants closed, others expanded, to produce for the Canadian & US markets. In the days of the 65 cent dollar, things boomed in Ontario. A bumper that cost $100 here was $65 US. It was cheaper to buy it here, and import it to the US. Now the shoe is on the other foot. The point to remember is that it's not that the Cdn $ has risen against the US $, the US $ has FALLEN against the Cdn $ - as well as many other currencies. That was a big factor in the Belgians buying Budweiser.

    Branch plants are LONG GONE, Winston.
  57. APP * from Canada writes: Ironic as Harper will be in Windsor tomorrow to announce that Essex Engine (Ford) will be getting a 4 cylinder diesel engine program.

    Oops! I guess the Globe didn't write that article yet.....
  58. Festina Lente from United States writes: Steve Allan from Canada must be having hemorrhoid problems, atleast swinging bats and hurling a lot of contumely around within the safety of his keyboard. Surely these are the symptons! He really should be giving us all a solution to the petro loonie and the cost of manufacturing.

    Is Canada catching the 'Dutch Disease' or what? I surely hope not. Cheers Stevie!
  59. Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: Festina Lente from United States writes: Steve Allan from Canada must be having hemorrhoid problems, atleast swinging bats and hurling a lot of contumely around within the safety of his keyboard. Surely these are the symptons! He really should be giving us all a solution to the petro loonie and the cost of manufacturing.

    Is Canada catching the 'Dutch Disease' or what? I surely hope not. Cheers Stevie!

    ============================================

    Our dollar hasn't risen particularly. The US dollar has FALLEN.
  60. Haper must Go from Canada writes: The benefits NAFTA we can all compete for the lowest level.
    Often when the productivity of a Canadian factory is compared to one south of the border it turns out a big factor in the lower production here is the factory is older in was n need of an upgrade a generation ago. Hard to compete when the playing field is not level.
  61. Frank Godfrey from Canada writes: Sweeney Todd, isn't ' Oilberta ' something of a branchplant as well.
    If demand for oil drops and the tar sands become too expensive to exploit, or other sources are found, industry will vacate as readily as it does in central Canadian manufacturing, and the Canadian Petro-dollar will fall. We seem to be very dependent on forces which are quite beyond our control, at least for the present.
  62. National Action Committee on the Status of Elvis in Canada from Ottawa, Canada writes: Bill M from Canada and George Smith from Canada,

    Nobody has identified NAFTA as the cause for this plant closing, not even Buzz Hargrove. You seriously think a high-tariff wall economy serves our long-term economic interest?

    Just to set the record straight, Chretien and Martin promised during the 1993 election to renegotiate the NAFTA, not scrap it. They then negotiated two side agreements with the Americans and Mexicans after they came to power in 1993 and then ratified NAFTA so that it came into effect on January 1, 1994 WHEN THE LIBERALS WERE IN POWER. So Bill M, you should be thanking Jean Chretien and Paul Martin as much as Mulroney.
  63. desiderio manzanal jr from laval, Canada writes: In most cases, these companies uplifting their base and going to the unknowns dont not know what advantages they have here in Canada. The lost of experience work force developed over the years are going to hit them hard. Good luck to them. BUt i think they are looking for Canadian Government Handouts. Again, when most of the manufacturing these days can be done with robotics, the issue of wages is being given as an issue for relocating.

    It is becomming obviouse that the labor movement in North America must consolidate as well and even include labor movements in south america. The setting up of international labor standards that include comparable wages would even the playing field. Im not highly in favor of Unions but the end trend is the wiping out of the manufacturing sectors. What the government and companies must realised is that sooner or later, there will be less buyer for products if the people in North americans cannot afford them.

    There has to be some balance.

  64. Yvonne Wackernagel from Woodville, Canada writes: Why do we complain about the Canadian dollar being too high when, in fact, the problem is that the American dollar is low and still falling and affecting all the world's economies. Disaster! In the meantime, America is gaining because their exports are cheaper and everyone else is eager to buy.

    In my opinion, now is the time to open up NAFTA and get our money's worth for our oil and gas from the Americans. Under NAFTA we, Canadians, cannot buy our own resources cheaper than we sell to them and you should pay attention to the price of gas in Venezuela -12 cents a gallon and in Iran also about 15 cents a gallon. These countries have more respect for their own citizens.
  65. Frank Godfrey from Canada writes: Yvonne, about getting our money's worth for our oil and gas. Don't you think that the ' our ' is a little ambiguous ?
  66. bill johnson from Quebec, Canada writes: Figures Buzz Hargrove had a hand in this.

    Buzz Hargrove: Canada's silver-spoon unemployment guru.
  67. Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: Frank Godfrey from Canada writes: 'Sweeney Todd, isn't ' Oilberta ' something of a branchplant as well.
    If demand for oil drops and the tar sands become too expensive to exploit, or other sources are found, industry will vacate as readily as it does in central Canadian manufacturing, and the Canadian Petro-dollar will fall. We seem to be very dependent on forces which are quite beyond our control, at least for the present.'

    ===========================================

    In a world economy, there are either 'plants', or there are not. There are no more 'branch plants'. Be glad for the 'petro-dollar'. If we didn't have the oil sands, what exactly would our national economy consist of, at this point in time? Why do you think I left Ontario for Alberta a couple of years ago?
  68. National Action Committee on the Status of Elvis in Canada from Canada writes: Yvonne Wackernagel from Woodville, Canada writes: Why do we complain about the Canadian dollar being too high when, in fact, the problem is that the American dollar is low and still falling and affecting all the world's economies.

    Yvonne, Yvonne, Yvonne, where shall I begin?

    1) The US dollar is low because it is running a current account deficit with most countries, including Canada. So Canada is a relative beneficiary of trade with the US (our trade surplus with the US is huge and is a major contributor to our standard of living.)

    2) Your suggestion that we make Canadian oil and gas cheaper than the price we sell it for to the US (world price) was operationalized in the early 1980's by PET. Almost broke up the country.

    3) Your suggestion that Canada make gas available for 12 cents a litre as they do in Venezuela is a complete non-starter in a world attempting to deal with global warming, carbon emissions, peak oil and traffic jams (take your pick whichever comes first.)
  69. Lie Detector from Parry Sound, Canada writes: They are just obeying Jim Flaherty's instructions. 'Ontario is the worst place to invest.' With a Finance Minister like why should investors stay in Canada. Maybe Flaherty will announce next week that Newfoundland, or New Brunswickm or Manitoba is the worst place to invest.
  70. J Law from Canada writes: You know, as much as B.C., Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba would like to help, I'm not sure we can handle all the people being laid off in these Liberal provinces. I think these laid off workers should start to look east at NL and N.S. for relief.

    Regardless, Ontario has some pretty good workers and they would certainly be a benefit to other provinces that can supply them with work. Just don't bring your loser politics.
  71. Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: Yvonne Wackernagel from Woodville, Canada writes: 'In my opinion, now is the time to open up NAFTA and get our money's worth for our oil and gas from the Americans. Under NAFTA we, Canadians, cannot buy our own resources cheaper than we sell to them and you should pay attention to the price of gas in Venezuela -12 cents a gallon and in Iran also about 15 cents a gallon. These countries have more respect for their own citizens.'

    ===========================================

    Venezuela? The country that's little more than a tin-pot dictatorship? The country that shuts down opposition television stations and newspapers? Iran? Can women even vote or drive cars there yet?

    Anybody who imagines that Venezuela & Iran are some sort of paradises because they've got cheap gasoline should emmigrate to the country of their choice at their earliest convenience. Try to pick out a nice burka, Yvonne. You can use all of the money you'll be saving on gasoline.
  72. The Artful Dodger from Toronto, Canada writes: Man, 800 well paying jobs gone in a town the size of Welland. How are people expected to raise their families? What a kick in the stomach.This one really hurts

    Hang tough Welland. You always have and I know you always will
  73. Frank Godfrey from Canada writes: Sweeney Todd, are you saying in the world economy, with no more branch plants, the oil sands is virtually the national economy? Since we do a vast amount of trading with the US, why on earth should I be happy for a Petro-dollar which is harming plants, branch or otherwise.
  74. Haper must Go from Canada writes: National Action Committee on the Status of Elvis
    Wouldn't United con bloggers of Canada be a more apt name to use?
  75. The Artful Dodger from Toronto, Canada writes: ...oh, and try to ignore the uni-bomber weirdo's that post daily (if not hourly) on this board.
  76. Lester Burnham from Canada writes:
    What would have saved this company is a good strong Carbon Tax, right up the ol' wazoo (with no lube). That would been all the incentive John Deere needed to keep their plant here.

    You'll see. Once the Carbon Tax is implemented, manufacturing will stay & others will be rushing back.

    Not to worry.
  77. National Action Committee on the Status of Elvis in Canada from Canada writes: Haper must Go from Canada writes: National Action Committee on the Status of Elvis
    Wouldn't United con bloggers of Canada be a more apt name to use?

    Not really. Both my posts above support policies pursued by the Chretien and Martin governments between 1993 and 2006. Chretien and Martin implemented the NAFTA and pursued free market policies-- if you're old enough to remember.
  78. Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: Frank Godfrey from Canada writes: Sweeney Todd, are you saying in the world economy, with no more branch plants, the oil sands is virtually the national economy? Since we do a vast amount of trading with the US, why on earth should I be happy for a Petro-dollar which is harming plants, branch or otherwise.

    ============================================

    Take away the oil sands, Frank - what is there? Make a list. Take your time.

    It's not a 'petro-dollar' Frank. The US dollar has fallen steeply against many currencies - ours among them. We do not control the value of the US dollar.
  79. A W from Canada writes: Do You notice that wherever 'Buzz's' name is mentioned jobs are LOST and plants are closing for good?

    WoW.... very sad. I'm not expecting the Ontario Liberals to do anything about it since they are a very dysfunctional government.

    I'm sure there is more coming as Companies look for greener pasters to produce their merchandise.

    BUT on the Good side, I'm sure Toronto's Mayor Miller will use this as ome sort of way to raise taxes in T.O. Pleeaaasssseeeee....

    Canada will be the NEW Mexico soon enough! ( not in the good way you think)
  80. Tony . from Canada writes: Webby 99 from Vancouver, Canada writes: 'Our corporate taxes are now nearly on par with the US, so why can't we compete with a par dollar?'

    Our corporate taxes are LOWER than the U.S., have been for some time. Corporate tax in Ontario is currently 19.5% Federal and 12% Ontario (for manufacturers like this one at least). That's 31.5% total tax.

    The Federal tax alone in the U.S. is 35% and Wisconsin charges 7.9% tax for a total of 42.9%.

    So why did they move the plant to the U.S.? Simple answer: They didn't.

    This plant is closed and was moved to Mexico, but there were probably one or two niche products that wouldn't fit. So rather than keep two plants half-open they consolidated in on plant in WI. The selection of WI over Ontario likely had more to do with being closer to market rather than any differences in productivity, wages, costs or taxes. Not having to cross the border is a BIG help.
  81. Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: Lester Burnham from Canada writes:
    What would have saved this company is a good strong Carbon Tax, right up the ol' wazoo (with no lube). That would been all the incentive John Deere needed to keep their plant here.

    You'll see. Once the Carbon Tax is implemented, manufacturing will stay & others will be rushing back.

    Not to worry.

    ==========================================

    OK Lester - how would a carbon tax convince industry to stay, or relocate to Ontario?
  82. Sue W from Canada writes: Meanwhile Dalton is busy trying to convince elementary school teachers that they should be accepting an offer that would see them earning $90,500 on average, in four years. With vacation that equates to over $100,000.

    Companies continue to close shop, 'brothers and sisters' continue to lose their jobs, and as usual the public service unions have blinders on and squawk for more.

    It's really quite pathetic.
  83. The Real PS from Canada writes: Marty York from Canada writes: Rich Fallis, what is the current fiscal deficit for the USA this year? 400 billion? Total debt, 5 trillion? How does that compare to Ontario? I don't always agree with our friends and neighbors in Ontario, but they belong to the same country as I, and Alberta. To take criticism from someone who's own fiscal house is out of order?

    ______________________________________________________

    Marty, don't let the big numebrs fool you. As a % of GDP Canada's total debt is 68% the USA 60% Our debt load is way higher than the USA
  84. The Real PS from Canada writes: Sweeny, I think he was being sarcastic !!!
  85. LLoyd Atkinson from Winnipeg, Canada writes: Will there be any politician running in the October election who wants to take a hard look at NAFTA? The Liberals are meeting in Winnipeg this week, but they are too busy trying to fix the flat tires on their Green Shift bus.I saw Jack Layton mention the Deere plant on television today, but he could offer little more than sympathy.
  86. steve allan from Canada writes: Don't believe everything you read in the media. There's more to this story than the company is letting on, in particular a decision by the city council to sell a large tract of land near the plant to a developer.

    Deere fought the sale claiming that the new homeowners would complain about emissions from the plant, but the city (many of the councillors and the mayor are in the pockets of developers) went ahead anyway. This probably has more to do with it than anything else.

    I know many who will lose their jobs. This city used to have the highest per capita concentration of manufacturing of any city in Canada. Today it has one of the highest per capita concentrations of call centres and Tim Hortons.

    Poor leadership is slowly killing this country.
  87. Festina Lente from United States writes: Sweeny Todd from Oilberta: No, the dollar is not falling! It is rising not for any real economic reason (but some for exports) in the USA but because of the fall of the Petro Loonie which is based mostly on oil. The Euro and Sterling SURGE of the past two years is over and trending downward. America is suffering from cheap global moralists. The rising USD is still a cheap dollar and is practically a default in the US debt ($1,800bn) to China. Within 10 years the US can defeat oil as a transport fuel. Improvements in the development of lithium-ion batteries are being made in Canada, Japan, USA and France. Transport not requiring mechanical linkages to wheels is on the horizon in abundance. The price of oil is justified at around $70 per barrel according to many economists and that would mean a further fall for the loonie to around .85 USD. Then and only then will US industry be interesting in coming back to Canada, such as Joh Deere, an iconic US company.

    Malcolm McCallum in Tampa Bay
  88. steve allan from Canada writes: ------The Real PS from Canada writes - Marty, don't let the big numebrs fool you. As a % of GDP Canada's total debt is 68% the USA 60% Our debt load is way higher than the USA ------

    Th U.S. has a 12 trillion dollar economy and their debt just crossed 10 trillion dollars. Only Italy amongstWestern nations has more debt than the U.S., but the Italians have one big advantage - most of their debt is owed to themselves whereas the Americans owe most of their debt to foreigners.

    America is in serious decline - morally, culturally, socially, politically ad economically. It's a real mess.
  89. Prairie Boy from Canada writes: George Ont. did not want a gas pipeline, they were heating with oil and it was cheaper to buy it from the Mid-East than from Alberta. The US was putting up the money so that's where it went.

    You can't blame this gov't or the previous, This has been building since entitlements meant more than productivity. The US dream exists because it can happen. What is the Canadian dream? Barbara Hall's vision doesn't count.
  90. Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: Festina Lente from United States writes: Sweeny Todd from Oilberta: No, the dollar is not falling! It is rising not for any real economic reason (but some for exports) in the USA but because of the fall of the Petro Loonie which is based mostly on oil. The Euro and Sterling SURGE of the past two years is over and trending downward. America is suffering from cheap global moralists. The rising USD is still a cheap dollar and is practically a default in the US debt ($1,800bn) to China. Within 10 years the US can defeat oil as a transport fuel. Improvements in the development of lithium-ion batteries are being made in Canada, Japan, USA and France. Transport not requiring mechanical linkages to wheels is on the horizon in abundance. The price of oil is justified at around $70 per barrel according to many economists and that would mean a further fall for the loonie to around .85 USD. Then and only then will US industry be interesting in coming back to Canada, such as Joh Deere, an iconic US company.

    Malcolm McCallum in Tampa Bay

    ===========================================

    The US dollar has regained some strength recently - I suspect more for political/upcoming election reasons more than anything else. But over the last several years IT HAS FALLEN. That's how Interbrew could buy Budweiser - a favourable exchange rate from Euros to US dollars.

    I understand how it's tough for our US cousins to accept that their once-mighty greenback has slumped badly against other currencies, but that's the fact of the matter.
  91. OK Whatever from United States writes: Steve Allan, I guess the US beats up on poor helpless nations the way Canadians beat the First Nations into submission and Canadian mining operations beat up on local cultures around the world before raping them. Why don't you look at the extent of your arms trade and see how much blood is on your hands as a Canadian before you call anyone else garbage?
  92. OK Whatever from United States writes: Oh, I also forgot to extend my congratulations to Mexico on gaining these jobs. Since Canadians have shown themselves to be horribly racist toward Mexicans here via off-color comments about crimes involving Canadians in Mexico, I hope the giant sucking sound of jobs hemorrhaging from Canada to Mexico continues.
  93. Child of the North in Canada from Canada writes: OK Whatever from United States this one's for you. How America treats Mexicans. Don't give me that bullsh@t that Americans care about Mexican illegals. They have used them and discarded them now that times are tough.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/05/us/05attack.html
  94. The Real PS from Canada writes: steve allan from Canada writes: America is in serious decline - morally, culturally, socially, politically ad economically. It's a real mess.

    Steve, I couldn't disagree more. The US debt as a % of GDP has not changed signficantly since the mid 1990's

    It increased substantially from 1950 to 1993 then dropped a fair bit from 93 to 2000 and then more or less leveled out. Like I said, don't let the big numbers fool you