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The arts funding cloud

RICK SALUTIN

From Friday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 3:41 AM EST 05/09/08

Is Stephen Harper calling an election to get away from under the culture issue? ...Read the full article

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  1. Yakatarina Verbosovich from aslowlydyingprovincialcity, Canada writes: Brilliant!!!! - you have succintly created a work of art!
  2. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Nope.

    Stephen Harper is calling an election because he knows he can kick Liberal butt.

    Gawd.
  3. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Quebec City is a cultural icon, right?

    Today:
    CPC 50
    Bloc 20
    LPC 11
    ...in Quebec City.

    They are deeply offended.
    Harper better call an election so nobody in Quebec City notices the 'culture' thingy.

    What a maroon.
  4. spicydoc of the spring from Canada writes:

    The CPC budgeted 3.4 BILLION for arts and heritage (more than Matin, BTW).

    There has been a review of some of these monies (as there should be), and less than 0.5% of the monies have been cut.

    Peanuts.

    I have no problem with spending 3 billion on arts and heritage. However, if the government trims 5 million from a 'free vacations for artists' fund, it's not the end of our country's art scene.

    Besides, many of the 'artists' affected are nothing but experts at applying for grants (a successful art photographer told me this)--decent talent does well with or without handouts.

    I'm tired of people like Salutin making gratuitous generalizations about arts funding and how out-of-touch the CPC is. We're still at 99.5% of where we were last year, and much further ahead than Martin or Chretien were.
  5. Oksana Szulhan from North Vancouver, Canada writes: Thank You, RIck Salutin ! Yes, the arts and culture need to be funded; however, we need this back at the grass roots, in the public education system so that we can evolve artists, and not re-volutionise them.
  6. Hans Lucas from Canada writes:

    Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    spicydoc of the spring from Canada writes:

    BUB ImumI from Canada writes:

    No one cares, because they are really boring guys with nothing better to do.
  7. Haiden MitHand El from Canada writes: Hans Lucas from Canada writes:
    Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:
    spicydoc of the spring from Canada writes:
    BUB ImumI from Canada writes:

    No one cares, because they are really boring guys with nothing better to do.

    Hans -- that's almost too funny. It's more likely that they wouldn't know art if it kicked them in the butt.
  8. janfromthe bruce from Canada writes: Having Art & Cultural grants vetted by MP CONTROL FREAK Harper is distasteful. More to the point, does he have any taste or will he be 'funding' those quirky little propaganda flyers that are blanketing ridings from MPs far away, WASTING TAXPAYERS MONEY.

    I guess that Harper's form of 'art' sheets of black/white paper with con PROPAGANDA WRITTEN ALL OVER IT. Yuk
  9. Pervez Musharraf from Peccavista, Pakistan writes: I am reminded of how Jacques Corriveau (who, according to Guite, Dingwall had said enjoyed an intimate place in the former PM's bedroom) could remember SFA at the Gomery Inquiry, but could go on and on about his appreciation of the arts. Liberals don't support the arts, they co-opt them: $200k worth of Tom Forrestal prints of the Bluenose II, the flagship of Sponsorship, vanished; $1.6m to Robert Scully with no contract for the Maurice Richard video. As Sheila Copps alluded to, there was nothing to gain politically for Harper in these cuts. It's not unreasonable, then, to conclude that these particular cuts were justifiable and not just because the PM--who happens to write books and play the piano (Paul Martin couldn't keep a beat. Dion? Two Left feet, for sure--is some kind of ogre. Arts funding has increased under the Conservatives.
  10. Sassy Lassie from Canada writes: LOL what a narcissistic assertion, that the Art Community is so very berry important that the PM is calling an election to defer outrage. Honestly that's hilarious, how do these people get their big ole giant heads past a normal door frame.

    Good grief what's next, without Government sponsored art we'll go into a recession. Lord Love a Duck, their shrieks of outrage are starting to get annoying. Are they really so afraid of working for living?
  11. John Steckley from Bolton, Canada writes: I disagree with Salutin. I don't think that arts underfunding, or re-funding through 'how many photo ops and propaganda pieces can you create' Conservative projects will be an issue in the election; more's the pity. He is right, however, about the CPC being supported by the good old boys who don't realize what a nation's artistic creativity says about the country and does for the country. Some of the previous posters show that with their aggressive and proudful ignorance of the arts.
  12. free thinker (aka penseur libre) from not far from here, Canada writes: BUB ImumI from Canada writes: ''Get a job. anybody can do 'art'.... it is inherent in all of us.'' ____ True, but have you ever read a really good book? How did that make you feel?
  13. GK Cheese from Canada writes: In a world of publicly funded art, McLuhan's words never seemed clearer; 'Art is anything you can get away with'.
  14. azif uno from Canada writes: spicydoc, when the olympics are over and the one time funding for that circus is removed from the arts budget will the conservative contribution to the arts still be greater than the liberal contribution?

    BUB ImumI, how many of those velvet elvis paintings do you have now? And is your ABBA collection complete yet?
  15. L F from Canada writes: John Steckley from Bolton, you are clearly a bigot. How does that feel? Anyone, who would judge an entire group of people based on the comments of three, must be a Liberal supported pollster. Time to remove your rose coloured glasses. The conservatives both privately and publicly support the 'Arts' more then the Liberals or NDP. In the fiscal year that will end March 09 the conservatives spent 4 billion on cultural programs. That is 660 million more than the Liberals did in their last year in power. A 19.7% increase is not in my mind a decrease, no matter how hard you try to spin it. Alas looking and re evaluating programs for waste or redundancy is actually good governance. That said it would be helpful to use facts in trying to prove a point rather then the typical familiar rhetoric.
  16. BUB ImumI from Canada writes: ..//

    azif uno,

    Your typical rhetoric is evidence why government should stay out art funding. You made your 'I know art better than you' bull, typical of the drug hazed left who cultivate 'art appreciation' as some special capability assigned to people with greasy long hair, squishy glasses, and a penchant for intolerance of short hair, children and 9-5 jobs.

    See, you made a snotty remark about what someone MUST view as art... to allude to art incompetence...

    Well... there you go.

    Get a job.

    ..//
  17. John Steckley from Bolton, Canada writes: To LF: The bigots are those who think that having an artistic dream and trying to follow it despite the strong economic incentive to 'get a real job' is being lazy. Try being a writer in this country. Each book I write takes two years without any money coming back. Being an artist takes a courage you might never know.
    As to private donations that your vaunted Conservatives (and the same would be true of the Liberal elite) give (and I am sure you got your stats from Harper propaganda sheets, not any objective accounting - you're the spinner, not I), those are largely tax writeoffs, and the rich tend to patronize the arts of the rich, the arts of the already well-established, not the young and hopeful. And under the listing of 'cultural programs' one can put a lot of political fundraising. The funding cuts were not in the interest of making the funding more efficient. They were flat cuts to programs. I have read of no connection of funding cuts to any kind of accountability or efficiency. As to being a bigot, I dislike partisan politics masked as government (Liberal, NDP or Conservative), propaganda masked as facts, and am for those who promote the arts. I can live with those biases.
  18. M M from canada, Canada writes: Reading Mccleans mag yesterday to find the Calgary was rated the city with the most culture - how ever could that be/ Not Toronto, Not Montreal??!! A city in the West??!!? A city that Harper represents???!!! Maybe, just maybe Harper is onto somthing that all the 'elite' are missing (probably because of the elite have their noses too far up somebody's butt- I realize that is a rude statement but sometimes rude is true!)
  19. BUB ImumI from Canada writes: ..//

    John Steckley,

    If writing a book isn't paying the bills then you made a poor life decision. If what you write is worth it, somebody will pay for its writing and publishing. If it is worth writing people will pay for it. If it cr@p, nobody will buy it.

    If it taking you 2 years to write a book, I'd suggest you stop wasting your expensive time on blogging...and get to work. I expect to see that book written in 10 weeks... 3 pages a day. get moving....

    ..//
  20. Haiden MitHand El from Canada writes: M M from canada, Canada writes: Reading Mccleans mag yesterday to find the Calgary was rated the city with the most culture - how ever could that be/ Not Toronto, Not Montreal??!! A city in the West??!!? A city that Harper represents???!!! Maybe, just maybe Harper is onto somthing that all the 'elite' are missing (probably because of the elite have their noses too far up somebody's butt- I realize that is a rude statement but sometimes rude is true!)

    MM -- Calgary the cultural capital of Canada? Mmmm. How about we stick to the topic, i.e. arts funding. Arts are part of culture but culture isn't necessarily art. Bull-riding and watching the Flames may be culture but it ain't art.
  21. Bubbles McBubbles from Trawna, Canada writes: In the short term Harper needs to keep funding the arts as a way to buy votes in Quebec but that's about it. To Harper, the Arts are just a weak vestige of an out-of-date, leftist nationalism. Something that will be easily eliminated in the long march towards cultural and economic union with the United States.

    A vote for Harper is a vote for the eventual dissolution of Canada.
  22. spicydoc of the spring from Canada writes:

    Steckley--

    Wassa matter??

    Did big bad Harper cancel your free vacation to San Francisco? You know, to 'network' and shop around your 'art'??

    Boo hoo.

    I worked as a waiter to support myself until I found my niche--what are you doing?

    Why peple who sit around staring at blank screens or canvases think they deserve my tax dollars is beyond me.

    I thought 'suffering' is what made 'artists' great. If we give you more cash than a single mother of three, where's your incentive? Where's your muse? Where's your inspiration?
  23. Joe Dick from Kingston, Canada writes: With Rick Salutin being an admitted communist and naturally, a friend of the liberals...I find it highly hypocritical of him to be bashing Harper over a few minor cuts.

    With censorship and suppression of dissension being hallmarks of communism/ liberalism, it's odd to say the least that he wouldn't support quashing of any forms of freedom of expression.

  24. Frank Godfrey from Canada writes: Calgary has more culture than Toronto or Montreal ? This is more serious than I thought.
  25. Sammy Whammy from Jail time for Harper! see Crim. Code s. 119, Canada writes: Arts funding should incentivize the consumer, not the artist.

    Having panels of cronies dish out grants to their friends to produce crummy art that no-one wants is a broken model.

    Instead, taxpayers should receive culture-vouchers with their tax returns (more $$ for poorer people) that they could spend for any authorized cultural purpose.
  26. Sammy Whammy from Financial offer to Cadman means Jail time for Harper! see Crim. Code s. 119, Canada writes: Post script -- The voucher should be non-transferable. If the objective of spending on arts is to uplift the general populace, they really do have to actually go see it.
  27. spicydoc of the spring from Canada writes:

    Sammy--

    I like your idea a lot.

    Can I redeem the coupon on Canada's new CRTC-approved CanCon porno channel??
  28. gary wilson from Calgary, writes: Harper is manipulating his law and breaking his promise by calling an election because it is strategically wise to do so. It has very little to do with the arts. The world economy is dragging Canada's economy down and that's not Harper's fault, but he has managed the challenge quite poorly. We will be in a recession after the next budget. We will also have a deficit budget, though that may be able to be hidden by semantics and the creative freedom governments have on reporting. He is also badly losing his law suit against the Liberals on his bribery of Chuck Cadman. Life Insurance policy? No, but shocking bribery and buying votes? Oh yes. He was forced to admit that under oath. Not so good for a man who ran on an anti-corruption platform. Also, the US election will bring about change, a price on carbon, and a focus on shifting taxes from income to pollution/consumption. Harper can't be left fear mongering against those polices here at home as the rest of the world turns to them. He needs to do that now while most Canadians can be manipulated and conned. He needs the election now because the appetite for change is mediocre right now. It will begin to grow by the new year and turn into a tidal wave by January when our economy tanks. There is much to disapprove of in Stephen Harper in terms of actual government performance, bizarre policy decisions, and the way he personally handles himself, but strategically you have to admire him. He is a ruthless and brilliant strategist. Perhaps even more so than even Chretien.
  29. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    So.

    We're all in agreement then?

    That painting the government paid a gazillion dollars for?
    The one with the black stripe on a white background?

    That's not art, right?

    That'd be a scam.
    No more scams, right?

    Excellent.
    Next on our agenda, the NDP's colour choice for Stornoway.

    All in favour of orange and green?
  30. George Nason from Canada writes: gary wilson from Calgary, writes:
    --------------------------------

    Budget surplus will be at least 10-15 B if not more.
    As for the arts, I could employ thousands of artists for 3 billion.
    How many artists are in this country, anyways? Culture is great, for a few people. Personally, I would like to see breakfast programs at all of Canada's elementary schools before culture is funded by the feds.
  31. Rex Bradley from Oakville, Canada writes: Boob Immune, keep abreast of reality, you are obviously a(fill in rude and demeaning word of your choice). Youth in Asia is a novel/movie dedicated to you and your ilk.
  32. M M from canada, Canada writes: To Haiden MitHand El from Canada - clearly you didn't read the article - why am I not surprised!! In fact I just purchased season tickets to the Calgary Opera and as well as Theatre Calgary. The only bull going on here is in your closed little mind.
  33. Bob Beal from Edmonton, Canada writes: spicydoc: John Steckley was merely making the simple point that every book published in Canada is publicly subsidized to some extent. It is virtually impossible to be a full-time author here. (Steckley is a full-time teacher.) The vast majority of authors write books in their spare time, assisted by very modest sales returns and perhaps a small grant or two. In Canada, authors actually spend their own money (directly and indirectly) to write the books. Canadians benefit from this very direct contribution.

    John Steckley's several books are probably in every Canadian public and university library (all of which are publicly funded). They are probably also in every public school library (also publicly funded).

    Steckley has made a considerable contribution to Canadians' knowledge of their history and society. Canadians should be grateful to him, not suggest he stop writing unless he can make money at it.

    What have you contributed to Canada, spicy?
  34. Jim F from Winnipeg, Canada writes: Rick Salutin talks like one of those perennial articles that breathlessly announce the incredible relevance of English degrees to the employers of the future. Where is this clumsily-named 'artistification'? Canadians have more choice than they did in 1983 in terms of how to spend their leisure time, and they aren't soaking up more Margaret Laurence and NFB documentaries. Once again, he assumes that anything that needs government funding and protection--that is, anything for which there is little demand--must be morally superior. Does he believe people who disagree with him are moral idiots?

    Bullets are flying in Afghanistan, factories are closing in Ontario, and other people around the country are escaping poverty or making huge strides forward in their fields. But in a few offices at the G M, the publication of a book by someone called Shirky is cause for five inches of print and the basis of an election forecast. Let people do their thing, and stop preaching these remedialist policies.
  35. Bagkitty in Calgary from Canada writes: M M. You read it in Maclean's? Nuff said.
  36. Haiden MitHand El from Canada writes: M M from canada, Canada writes: To Haiden MitHand El from Canada - clearly you didn't read the article - why am I not surprised!! In fact I just purchased season tickets to the Calgary Opera and as well as Theatre Calgary. The only bull going on here is in your closed little mind.

    M M -- typical -- why have a discussion when it's just easier to lob an insult, eh? I did read the article. I'm happy you like opera and theatre. You mentioned that Calgary is the city with the most culture. I didn't dispute that. I only pointed out that the arts are a sub-set of culture, e.g. 'a particular form or stage of civilization, as that of a certain nation or period.' Calgary has a lot of culture if you like things like watching hockey, chuckwagon races, pancake breakfast and drinking one's face off at a company-sponsored hoedown. I used to live there and it's a nice city but it's pretty 'small town' when it comes to the arts. There is no surfeit of the arts when compared to Montreal, Vancouver, Edmonton, St. Johns or Toronto. I suppose you've never had the pleasure of visiting any of these places from what I can grok from your comments.
  37. Marian Olson from Canada writes: Mr. Salutin, before you trash Stephen Harper with such pejorative terms as 'philistine', why don't you at least pretend to be somewhat fair and compare the dollars and cents arts funding of the last few federal governments. And compare the amount cut by the Harper government with the total grant to the Arts. You will find, of course, that the Harper government has been generous, and that the grants cut, for overseas junkets and such, are but a drop in the bucket. Of course, you don't want to bother anyone with the facts, you just want to stir up partisan outrage disguised as thoughtful commentary. Spare me please.
  38. azif uno from Canada writes: theglobeandmail.com

    Money for a monument to a UFO sighting, yes; money for the arts and environment, not so much. Priorities people, priorities.
  39. Sassy Lassie from Canada writes: Perhaps those who are outraged in the arts community should join forces with the newest outraged group. An organization that represents strippers in Ontario are hopping mad and boy are they mad at Harper for cancelling Stripper Gate.

    The arts community should take a breathier, the general public really doesn't care however; if this becomes an election issue look out. The public will be outraged once the unwashed masses find out what their tax dollars are funding and how much this special interest groups is costing those that can barely afford home heating fuel.

    Note to the perpetually entitled, you could be biting off your nose to spite your face. It's a non-public issue at the moment do you really want to make the public aware of how much of our cash you get for a hobby?
  40. Haiden MitHand El from Canada writes: Sassy Lassie from Canada writes:....It's a non-public issue at the moment do you really want to make the public aware of how much of our cash you get for a hobby?

    SL -- being an artist isn't a hobby, pasttime or frankly even a choice to a true artist. It's an art thing -- you wouldn't understand.
  41. Sally Struthers from Canada writes: People who make cars need that money. Thanks, Steve! I can keep my valuable job hammering part number one into part number two! Even though no one wants to buy the car! Arts are stupid.
  42. Jesu Pifco from Canada writes: Joe Dick, Which colour are YOUR tinted glasses?
    Suppression of dissent and censorship (not to mention subjugation of the arts) is a hallmark of ALL extreme ideologies. Just ask any European who lived under Nazism and then Stalinism.
    Ideology: deaf, dumb, blind and often dangerous.
  43. M M from canada, Canada writes: To Haiden MitHand El from Canada - you sound like you know alot about Calgary - so I assume that you are a frequent visitor to Calgary or maybe you live there and hate it? As for Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa etc. etc. - I have lived in those cities and could not wait to move away - they are cities that are stuck in a rut but can't believe for on minute that other parts of Canada might be more dynamic than them. Went a couple of times to the opera in Toronto and found the patons went to get largely show off their designer gowns. I have spent 30 years working in the arts and cultural community (so I do know what 'art' is - I happen to spend between $3,000 to $5,000/year on buying art and before you insult me not from the art mart! - but from artists who work every day to realize their vision rarely with govenrment support!) What I detest about the writer of this opinion piece and from your comments is the tone that because the government is Conservative they are ignorant about what truly is art - what poppycock! - again most of the programs cut were programs created to address some special whim of artists and had vague mandates that would never be able to be evaluated (I think one of the commentors mentioned that he had never seen any studies about the success of the programs - my response is that you never will because you cannot evaluate a program's impact if the program has vague goals or mandates)
  44. John Steckley from Bolton, Canada writes: Bob Beal - Thanks. You made my point better than I did. I owe you a beer. BUB Imumi - I have never regretted becoming a writer, even though it doesn't pay the bills. People buy crap books all the time. Popularity and quality are far from synonymous in many areas of life, but particularly in the arts. Most of the really good books I've read over the last few years are more obscure. To shift to music; lots of people know Hanna Montana, not because she is good, but because she is well-marketted. The same works for many financially successful writers. And for writing each day, I have already written about five pages today. For one of my books, which has become a best-seller (with sales now over 10,000), I wrote the last 70 pages in four days (the end of Reading Week at my college). But that is the creative process and how it lives in Canada, something you may never have experienced. Learn about artists before you write about artists. I am not complaining for myself and my work; my complaints are about the young artists who have much to contribute to our country, but could have their wings clipped by short-sighted politicians of all stripes, and their equally blind supporters. Spicy Doc: There have never been any paid trips for me or for the vast majority of artists of all kinds in Canada. What you hear about is the over-communicating by conservative media of the very few artists that receive big money,and may or may not be squandering it. All artists then get painted by the same condemning paintbrush. Too bad the even more subsidized oil companies don't get the same scrutiny. The actual lives of most Canadian artists are unknown to most Canadians. The ones I know are as hard-working as anyone else, subsidizing their own art with their own dollars. Only the highly paid get publicity (good and bad).
  45. Frank Godfrey from Canada writes: M M, glad to hear you're doing well in Calgary. Too bad you didn't enjoy your time in Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa.... , though.
  46. Kim Fullerton from Oakville, Canada writes: News Flash: Jun 20, 2008 10:28 AM THE CANADIAN PRESS HALIFAX–Defence Minister Peter MacKay said today that the government plans to spend $490 billion over the next 20 years on Canada's military.

    That is $24.5 BILLION per year folks. No wonder they don't have any money for the arts.
  47. Trillian Rand from Canada writes: Government should support the arts? Ridiculous. Artists should get real jobs.

    Government should support day-care? Ridiculous. People shouldn't have children unless they can afford them.

    Government should give money to industry? Ridiculous. If a business can't make it, it should close down.

    So, what should our national government do? Should we have an all or nothing attitude? Should we continue to fund higher education when private colleges are available? Why should my hard-earned tax dollars go to making someone else smarter? Should we fund health care? Why should my hard-earned tax dollars pay to treat someone who hasn't looked after themselves?

    What the government does, what it funds or does not fund, should represent the image we have of Canada. From those who post here, we apparently want a country devoid of art created here. And why should we care when we can get all the Elvis on velvet paintings we need from China?

    The attitudes represented here will do far more to end Canadian art than government lack of funding ever will. We are the government. If the government stops funding art, that's what the majority of us want. If we disagree, we have to elect a different government. It's that simple.
  48. Haiden MitHand El from Canada writes: M M from canada, Canada -- I'm sorry if you took offense to my comments. My intent was not to insult you or any Calgarians. I'd like to suggest that you take a deep breath as you do come across as angry and stressed. If anything, my only intention was to bring some clarity to this discussion. I haven't made any assumptions about you although you took a tremendous liberty to make some fatuous remarks about me. I'm a non-partisan. Don't take these things so personally, it's not about you
  49. crazy fiddler from Canada writes: Trillian Rand from Canada: Brilliant. Thank you for your post.
  50. Andrea L. from Ottawa, Canada writes: Some of these comments make my blood boil. We seem content to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on the war machine, on refining oil in the dirtiest refining project on the face of the planet, but we can't spend that proverbial drop in the bucket on culture? Give me a break. I have a full-time job, and have to use evenings and weekends to compose, practice and perform. If I were willing to live below the poverty line, I would quit my job and spend my time practicing and composing several hours a day, another few hours a day on self-promotion (using little to no money), and then thousands of dollars a year for wardrobe, instrument maintenance, lessons and coachings, and travel. See, making art is NOT about lazing around and waiting for inspiration and then just letting it all out in one big cathartic moment. It requires mental and physical discipline, requires consistent effort and it requires money. An orchestra does not materialize out of thin air. Within that group of roughly 150 people, there are millions of dollars worth of instruments, sheet music, wardrobe, and general equipment. And we're just talking about the basics, here: I haven't even touched copyright, haven't talked about the rehearsal process, the hall fees, the promotional fees. But then you knew all that, right? You knew that the arts, in spite of being one of the worst-funded parts of our economy, generate one of the highest returns on investment. You knew that artists are the most immediately-recognizable faces representing us on the world stage, right? Wake up and smell the coffee. Culture defines a nation. And right now, the world thinks that we are all like Shania Twain, Bryan Adams and Celine Dion. That scares the hell outta me.
  51. Daniel Cunningham from Victoria, writes: Theo-Con Borgies = Christian Taliban. I'm sure they would love to go back to early protestant days, say Cromwell's period when even dancing & music was banned.
  52. lary waldman from Qualicum Beach, Canada writes: For twenty five years I lives on an Island a 20 minute ferry ride from Vancouver. Many people no it as Bowen Island. I left a few years ago, but I can keep track of what is going on there. When I arrived there was a thriving Theatre Company and many late 60's early 70's type artist's and some really talented people like Sam Black. The community had energy. It is now 35 years latter and this community still does not have a community centre in which to properly stage a play. The Arts can carry their own water in Canada, the support is there. But there is also an awfull lot of people who do not think Arts Centre are worth a fig. Now on Bowen they are trying to build an all weather Sports Field with lights. We have one or maybe two of those in Qualicum where I now live, and this is the per capita oldest community in Canada. It can be, that people with the best of intentions, actually kill any initiative that people move forward. I hope they get their playing field and the Theatre. They did after 55 years, get a nine whole golf course, which people still think is the home of Satan himself.

    Lary Waldman
  53. Woody Forrest from Out in the Sticks, Canada writes: OK, so I haven't read the whole board. But damn it, being Conservative and appreciating art are not mutually exclusive.

    Anyone been to the Musee d'Orsay in Paris? It has a breathtaking collection of Van Gogh's, Manet's, Cezanne's, Renoir's, Degas' and Signac's, just to name a few. I nearly cried when I saw the beauty of their paintings. But then, maybe it's just me.

    In Canada we have our Carmichael's, Thompson's and Carr's. Somebody else can rattle off the names of the modern ones - if that hasn't been done already on this board.

    Art should be able to sell itself. It shouldn't be a wing of the federal government, as the LPC would like it to be.
  54. Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes:
    The Arts community is a legend in its own mind. Not even the publicly funded CBC talking heads are suggesting Harper is calling an election to stifle the arts funding debate. There isn't one.

  55. Woody Forrest from Out in the Sticks, Canada writes: Andrea L. from Ottawa, Canada writes: 'Some of these comments make my blood boil. We seem content to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on ... , but we can't spend that proverbial drop in the bucket on culture? Give me a break. ... If I were willing to live below the poverty line, I would quit my job and ... ' Andrea if you've got a talent, good for you (seriously). Somehow you need to disconnect this from the spending priorities of the federal government. I never looked to them for income, so why should you? I had a passion for design and solving math problems. This led me to an engineering degree. After I spent my money, worked my *ss off, and graduated, people wanted to pay me peanuts. Many people lined up to take turns showing me how useless engineers are. I persevered because it's what I want to do. I can't imagine doing anything else. So now, because I hung in when others left, I have skills that are in short supply and people line up to offer me jobs with six figure salaries. This nearly compensates for all the crap I had rubbed in my face along the way. Does any of this help you understand why I have little sympathy for you? If your music (or whatever art) is your passion, find a way to make it happen. If it is of value to the rest of us, you will be rewarded. What on earth makes you think the federal government has a role to play in your career?
  56. stand up mimi from Canada writes: Woody Forrest from Out in the Sticks, Canada writes: 'OK, so I haven't read the whole board.'

    Maybe you should read Trillian Rand's post. Great art, including the works at the Musee d'Orsay, has very rarely 'sold itself' to the public of the day. Van Gogh died penniless. Other great artists have been supported by the public, via the monarchy.
  57. stand up mimi from Canada writes: Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes: 'The Arts community is a legend in its own mind.'

    Where is this 'Arts community' you speak of, and who is in it? And where do people get the idea that there is an enclave of 'art' that is separate from the larger society? Nobody talks about the 'Health' community looking for handouts, or the 'Education' community, or the 'Transportation' community, or the 'Agriculture' community....
  58. stand up mimi from Canada writes: Woody Forrest from Out in the Sticks, Canada writes: "If your music (or whatever art) is your passion, find a way to make it happen. If it is of value to the rest of us, you will be rewarded. What on earth makes you think the federal government has a role to play in your career?"

    As an engineer, you should be aware that the government does play a big role in your career, through technology grants to businesses as well as tax credits.
  59. Woody Forrest from Out in the Sticks, Canada writes: stand up mimi from Canada writes: "... Great art, including the works at the Musee d'Orsay, has very rarely "sold itself" to the public of the day. Van Gogh died penniless. Other great artists have been supported by the public, via the monarchy. "

    Yes, you are correct. Still, Van Gogh painted because he had to. He was driven, and we are all richer it.

    I still believe talented people find a way.
  60. stand up mimi from Canada writes: Yes, Woody, I agree. Talented people do find a way. But a society that really values its artists makes the way a little easier.
  61. Woody Forrest from Out in the Sticks, Canada writes: Did you know that before they hit it big, the members of the Beatles didn't have any day jobs? If they couldn't make it as musicians, they had nothing.

    So far as I know, they didn't receive any grants from the British government.
  62. Woody Forrest from Out in the Sticks, Canada writes: stand up mimi, I agree with your point about the positive role that governments can play. My point is that Concervatives aren't all artless buffoons as some posters would have you believe.

    One problem is that the arts community can play favourites and help keep an otherwise unworthy government in power. Somewhere between the LPC and PMSH, there must be some sort of happy medium.

    For now, I'll stick with PMSH and a few members of the arts community might just have to tread water.
  63. Lum Barstrain from Free Kelly Ellard!, Canada writes: I like the idea above, about paying consumers rather than producers. It would put money into the hands of the best artists people choose, rather than the art-people who best schmooze.
  64. stand up mimi from Canada writes: Lum Barstrain - People don't always choose the best art. If they did, Britney Spears would never have made a name for herself. And some "producers" - history writers, for example - are never going to appeal to the masses, but still make needed contributions to society.

    Woody - It's true that some posters find it easier to label everybody than to imagine there might be complexity in people. Labels are nothing but an "us" versus "them" mentality, which is a way of ensuring no agreements can be reached and nothing can be solved.

    Well, I appreciate your comments, Woody, and some of the others above as well.
  65. Pierre living in China from Brampton, Canada writes: LOL Rick Salutin. I enjoy your articles because of the different perspectives they bring.
    One small note, if I may, you said "Goebbels said it made him reach for his revolver." If my memory serves me well, the quote was from Herman Goering, and he did not have a revolver, but a 9 mm pistol (a P38 or a Lueger I think)
  66. Peter The Not Quite Great from Edmonton, Canada writes: "And when people's lives and livings are involved, they expect their public institutions and leaders to help out, just as they help out agriculture and the auto industry."

    What a crappy idea. It isn't really asking your public leaders and institutions to "help out" it's asking for a piece of another Canadians' paycheck. Where do you think Government's money comes from? If you want some of the money I worked for you better make a good case for it, don't just tell me you deserve it because you're the "salt of the earth" (farmers) or that it's "good for me" (the usual argument of arts groups).

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