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Transport Canada study on road tolls cancelled

BRIAN LAGHI AND PAUL WALDIE

Globe and Mail Update

Latest comment posted at 9:30 PM EST 08/09/08

Government halts look into using tolls, parking levies to help reduce pollution in Canada's largest cities and pay for more public transport ...Read the full article

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  1. Kevin Desmoulin from Toronto, Canada writes: Remember the 407 and what that supposed to be about and what happened to it, Built with Taxpayer money and sold to outsiders by the Harris conservatives.
  2. Nathan Weatherdon from Canada writes: I want to know who was responsible for pulling the plug on this study. The guess, of course, is that the present government didn`t want this kind of stuff coming out during this campaign, given that Harper et al are too busy pandering to those who couldn`t care less about the environment to put together sufficiently effective policy here.

    The fact that my future tax payments subsidize present driving habits is absolutely ridiculous. We need to join the modern era and have congestion charges for private drivers in metropolitan areas.
  3. james cyr from Balmertown Ontario, Canada writes: This is unfortunate; the money gleaned from tolls could be ploughed directly back into maintenance of these roads. Tolls seem to work well in the US.
  4. Mean Machine from Bugtussle, Canada writes: Here is a newsflash...just quit wasting money,there will be lots left.
  5. JP M from Canada writes: Nathan Weatherdon, I think that you've hit the nail on the head. A few questions worth asking would be:
    1. Who ordered the study cancelled?
    2. When were the results of the study to be released?
    3. What direction was their recommendation headed?
    Another step backward from so called "leadership".
  6. Jack Jones from Clearwater, BC, Canada writes: This smacks of low brow conservative election pandering to the masses. Instead of being a responsible government demonstrating leadership, we get stevie harper sucking for votes from the lowest common denominator.

    People who drive SHOULD pay for the damage they do to the environment. I'm perfectly willing to do so. I'm also willing to reduce my driving as much as i am able.

    The conservatives are an embarrassment to this great country
  7. SL S from Saskatchewan, Canada writes: That was actually a good idea, too bad it was cancelled. Makes alot more sense than the Green Shift, Shift Scheme.
  8. Sober Second Thought from Toronto, Canada writes: Tolls make sense in some places where more public infrastructure is needed like border crossings (not private like the Windsor Bridge). I hate the idea of lining up to a booth to pay so I have an Illinois I-Pass that works well in 4 or 5 US states. The 407 in Ontario is a total rip off and requires monthly fees even if you do not use it. My I-pass is good forever. It just debits my prepaid account -no monthly fees.
  9. Art Vandelai from Burlington, Canada writes: Well..given the fact that most road budgets in the country are still based on $30/barrel oil, and asphalt (crude oil) is the main ingredient, we have some tough choices to make.

    I see three options.

    1) Be prepared to pay massively higher property taxes to maintain the roads we already have. If for some reason you can no longer afford to drive everywhere, you will still have to pay so that the rich can have their roads.

    2) Let users pay through such things as tolls and congestion charges. A market-based solution which encourages alternatives where possible.

    3) Let the roads continue to deteriorate, and defer necessary maintenance until we can afford to do it. Eventually they get to the point where no one can use them efficiently.

    Which is the most prudent option? I don't know, but this study may have helped Canadians form a better opinion about how we move forward.

    Instead, we take a step backward. The attack on science, intellectualism and honest debate of the REAL ISSUES in Canada continues.
  10. Art Vandelai from Burlington, Canada writes: For a look at sustainability of our current road funding mechanism, consider the example in the US. (NYT article)

    http://tinyurl.com/64zdrq

    Since our roads get more wear and tear due to our climate, I'd imagine the situation in Canada is even more dire.
  11. Will Hoaccio from Canada writes: Socialist roads live on! I kind of wish Ontario would just sell off our highway infrastructure to private consortia (at a realistic value, not 407) and pocket the change into a fund. I figure we could net at least 100b off of all of our 400 hwys (and DVP/Gardiner). Use the interest accrued on the money to pay for more infrastructure.
  12. Sask Langer from Canada writes: Nathan Weatherdon from Canada writes: I want to know who was responsible for pulling the plug on this study.

    It was the Liberals. Somehow.

    It's always the Liberals.
  13. Let me tell You How It Is from United States writes: "using tolls, congestion charges, parking levies and other "urban transportation pricing mechanisms" to help reduce pollution in Canada's largest cities and pay for more public transport"

    The problem with Canadians is that if these charges were imposed then all the money collected would not be used for transport but go into the general tax revenue. Like that new BC Government "Green" Tax. Meanwhile Canadian transport infrastructure deteriorates.
    Let me tell you the biggest transport pole up my a s s is the freakin Lions Gate Bridge in Vancouver. When I'm head up to Whistler to ski for freaks sake sometimes there is only 1 lane. Ridiculous! For such a large poplulation on the north shore and downtown this is what I would say is innapropriate. I have news for you that this is the year 2008 and not the 1930's when it was built.
    And the Canadian public transport alternative? There freakin isn't one. There is only ONE over priced Train scheduled a day costing over $200 to Whistler and it freakin leaves from North Vancouver so you have to freakin use the Lions Gate Bridge to get to it! The Canadian Central Planning Committee did another screwed up job on this one.
  14. Tim Cares from Canada writes: james cyr from Balmertown Ontario, Canada writes: This is unfortunate; the money gleaned from tolls could be ploughed directly back into maintenance of these roads. Tolls seem to work well in the US. ....

    Actually they use the gasoline taxes for what they were intended for.
  15. BJ Homes from Ontario, Canada writes: If the Conservatives win a majority, the study will be reinstated with an emphasis on privatization.
  16. Stan Consultant from Canada writes: From the report (and it hurts my stomach and I need to grit my teeth to type it, but both Brian Laghi and Paul Waldie are exceptionally good reporters), apparently Transport Canada simply sent out a media announcement that the review had been canceled, with no other comment or explanation. 'A government spokesman (said) the government did not wish to push forward with the study.' So, perhaps, Transport Canada commissioned the study, and then the plan was canceled from higher up the organization chart. The one sentence in the news report that might connect to the question is the plain statement from the reporters that 'the review would have come on the eve of a federal election campaign.' And we can draw our own conclusions from that. All in all, a very peculiar series of events, and a real disappoint to us who do care about transport corridors in the survival of a nation.
  17. Normand LaBine from Winnipeg, Canada writes: More good news! The Conservative Green-Shift tax is dormant until they win again. My, my! So truckers and farmers and commuters who can afford high fuel costs, taxed with roadtax, would pay tolls to rebuild the highways, pay for the toll booths, and the bureaucracy that would emerge, and the oil patch could get it's 'green research' funding from the roadtax. Slick! How's it feel to see the future? I wonder if Dion had the same idea and decided to go the other way - nail the industrial polluters.

    Anyone ever asked Canadians how they'd squeeze more mileage out of a tankful, or ask the NRC to change the building code so we could put rooftop wind generators on our homes (windterra is an Alberta company) cheaper than geothermal? Oh, no. they both want the status quo, milk more taxes one way or the other. Not that the NDP or even Greens have ever raised these options either.

    When will we be asked for our hands on solutions? Just vote and legitimize another 4-year dictatorship. Participatory democracy? When?
  18. Gossipy Busybody from Canada writes: Folks -- don't kid yourselves. Harper ordered this study cancelled. He has big plans in store for us... he's just not telling us what they are. Check out:
    http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Opinion/1077175.html

    to see what's ahead.
  19. al woodward from Canada writes: If I am not mistaken, something like less than 3% of the gasoline tax goes back into roads. The rest goes to General Revenue (slush).
    Use the other 97% for new roads and road repair instead of needless things like $300 million for an election that will change nothing or vote buying loans/grants to Ford and GM
  20. Eric Kirkpatrick from Vancouver, B.C., Canada writes: The study would of taken longer than the election, perhaps Harper wants to make sure that he has a majority to take credit. But it is only a study and the Provinces/Municipalities are still responsible for highways and public transit in these cities.
  21. Philip McRae from Vancouver, Canada writes: It's all Harper's fault. The feds are responsible for provincial roads and highways. LOL. Liberal wanks. At least try to be right. The study was probably pulled because the government has made a 6.2 billion commitment to increasing rapid transit in the provinces and cities listed in the report. DUH. Think there might be a connection.
    whaaaa, whaaaa, whaaaa. How pedantic of the liberal whingers.
  22. J Law from Canada writes: It is amusing to read how many people on here pretend they knew all about these studies. They didn't and could care less about them. I bet not one commenter above would have read the thing if it was completed, but they will try to tell you they were on top of it all the way.
  23. Anthony B from Maritimes, Canada writes: It's obvious the Cons plan to demonise Dion's Green Shift plan as a major election strategy. How ironic that they had a carbon tax plan of their own in the works, which has been shelved .....until after the election.

    Vote Dion and pay a carbon tax.

    Vote Harper and pay a carbon tax.

    The only difference is that when you vote Dion you'll know what your voting for.
  24. Mark Dip from Canada writes: Were they going to staff the toll booths with laid-off meat inspectors?
  25. Ivan Patrick from Canada writes: Good- No tolls. Part of the fuel taxes we pay is "supposed" to go to roads. The government makes more then enough from fuel taxes.
  26. evelyn robinson from Canada writes: O fcourse this was cancelled by the harperites; they have no concern for the environment. just oil and money for their rich friends.

    Conservative tax cuts don't cover the increase cost of gas

    This governemtn supports globilization; more junk electronics from China filling up our dumps.
    Cheap to buy but when you need to buy 10 compared to the one we did when we made quality goods; they end up being very over priced.
    plus now you have to assemble things yourself and then find parts missing
    irritating lack of quality or integrity.
  27. John Doucette from Manotick, Canada writes: No study is necessary, toll roads are coming! They are essential to improve the roadways for the business community.

    Few realize that over 70% of highway usage by weight is commercial traffic, yet only 10 percent of the taxes used to maintain the highways come from the corporate sector.
    Since;
    -It is politically difficult to raise the already high taxes on the individual to maintain roads;
    -and, it is both ideologically unacceptable and impossible to increase taxes on corporations, who, since they are essentially foreign owned, simply move their taxable profits elsewhere;

    In the interest of good roads at least to the borders, Canada must obtain a new method of obtaining funds for roads.
    Toll roads have the following benefits:
    a) They provide an additional source of corporate profit.
    b) They provide the government with an additional source of funds outside of the progressive income tax stream.
    c) Corporations using the roads can seem to be paying their fare share of taxes while actually obtaining a tax discount by writing off those costs against their profits.









  28. Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes:
    "Red Ken" Livingstone brought in the London England congestion tax. He lost the May 2008 election. His successor is repealing it.
  29. Marc Twane from Canada writes: ......let's see now...this wouldn't be some sort of a neo-con tax....a la 'Green shift'?????
  30. Will Hoaccio from Canada writes: Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes:
    ""Red Ken" Livingstone brought in the London England congestion tax. He lost the May 2008 election. His successor is repealing it."

    Boris Johnson is not repealing the congestion charge, I don't know where you got that idea...
  31. vid ingelevics from Canada writes: Thank you, Stephen Harper, for once again showing us what real leadership means. This is a recurring pattern under the Harper regime - short-term scheming wins over what is good for the country in the long run.

    Another example of the politics of the man Rex Murphy maintains "loves his country". Yeah, right. Not as much as he loves power, Rex.
  32. garlick toast from Canada writes: Yes,let's not have a study where people might get some fresh ideas or learn how to avoid having to bulldoze neighbourhoods to accommodate the every increasing traffic loads.Quebec built two autoroutes with tolls.When the roads were paid for, they removed the tollbooths.
  33. vid ingelevics from Canada writes: Ivan Patrick from Canada writes: "Good- No tolls. Part of the fuel taxes we pay is "supposed" to go to roads. The government makes more then enough from fuel taxes."

    How do you know this? Maybe they don't, in fact. That is one of the effects of tax cuts by the way. Services like infrastructure maintenance get stretched to the limit and beyond (note collapsing briges, etc.).

    If our taxes no longer can support the level of maintenance needed for our roads & highways then you have a choice - either pay for road maintenance in higher taxes or the user pays for the service in the form of tolls. Which is it?

  34. Vote NDP in the next federal/provincial election from Toronto, Canada writes: I guess those motorists who drive too much (who don't consider public transit for pathetic excuses) who oppose road tolls at all costs are smiling at this tonight
  35. Stephanie Salmons from Milton, Canada writes: Tolls on highways = higher food costs to everyone, higher prices on anything shipped into the city by truck, etc.

    Where would the congestion toll begin? Downtown? The edges of the megacity?

    Before they even consider tolls as an option they need to implement better transit. Transit in Toronto can barely handle the number of riders it has now... look at Dufferin - 3 buses in a row packed with passengers.

    If the government wants to reduce congestion on roads they have to make transit more affordable than driving, more reliable, and more accessible.
  36. Gerald Donaldson from Canada writes: The hidden story of toll roads is the connection between Africa Israeli Investment group and the Conservative party. Africa Israel operates toll roads and is intimately connected to the Conservatives.
    Highway 6, Yitzhak Rabin Cross-Israel Highway, Israel
    The Derech Eretz group has three shareholders: Africa-Israel, CHIC- Canadian Highways and Housing and Construction Limited.
    This system is largely founded on the system currently operating on Highway 407 in Canada
    Canadian Highways Investment Canada Corporation, CIC Corporation and their Israeli partners in the international toll highway consortium Derech Eretz today announced that they have reached financial close on the Cross-Israel Highway project. The closing includes the execution of all agreements on commercial and financial terms and conditions among the Consortium, the commercial lenders and the State of Israel.

    Canadian Highways Investment Canada Corporation and CIC Corporation are Partnerships of AGRA Inc. of Oakville, Ontario, (TSE: AGR), Armbro Enterprises Inc. of Brampton, Ontario (TSE: ARE) and BFC Construction Corporation of Scarborough, Ontario (TSE: BFC). These same companies were partners in the consortium that led the development, design, construction and operation of the original 69 kilometre section of the ETR 407 toll highway project in Toronto, Ontario.

    " We are particularly proud to have been selected by the State of Israel to be their partner in the development of such a prestigious project," said Canadian Highways President John Beck.

    "Canadian Highways is now entering the next stage in its international growth," Mr. Beck added. "We can attribute some of our international success to the original confidence that the Ontario Government gave to our consortium in the building of the ETR 407 and to the support of Premier Mike Harris and various members of his cabinet in helping Canadian Highways win the Cross Israel Project."
  37. joe 6 pk from Canada writes: .

    miller ....

    toronto could CUT TAXXXES .....

    all you have to do is ....

    CUT THE FAT/WASTE / ROT ...

    cease and desist .....

    with SQWANDERING OTHER PEOPLE'S ...

    MONEY $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    THE TORONTO TAXPAYERS' MONEY
  38. John Connor from Canada writes: Look for this to be expedited after the conservatives have won the election. It is an idea who's time has come. Toronto drivers - start coughing up your fair share!
  39. J G from Canada writes: If government is so keen on doing this why not just increase gasoline tax vs more bureaucracy with millions spent in administering this crap. Personally, I say get in some good public transportation by using all the tax collected from licensing, gasoline taxes etc on transportation vs much of it going into genral revenue.

    I do not see a difference between a carbon tax and tolls as end result the same... collect money and discourage driving.
  40. garlick toast from Canada writes: Bring back passenger trains.
  41. Hung Long from Hong Kong writes: Canada desperately needs higher taxes on private transportation so more millions can be shovelled at transit unions.
  42. Boreal Moose from Canada writes:
    "He cited several factors that will have to be in place: feasible public transit, a low-cost plan that can be implemented easily, little opposition from businesses and "a powerful political champion."

    Dick Cheney will become Secretary General of the UN before those stars allign in the heavens above!
  43. garlick toast from Canada writes: You can't blame the transit unions on the masses of single passenger vehicules clogging our roads.For some reason "user-pay" doesn't apply to our highways.
  44. Trudeau's Apricot poodle from Canada writes: Does anyone who is in favour of tolls actually own a car?
  45. True North from Canada writes: Toll roads are a great idea - users should pay or the roads. The Harper government election platform will look like one sweet sugar coated future, not putting not a single contentious issue on the table and assaulting us with pictures of Harper by the fire side while his party wraps up a record-setting $8.9 billion dollar pre-election spend.

    Harper cannot be trusted
  46. Winni Pig from Canada writes: Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes:
    "Red Ken" Livingstone brought in the London England congestion tax. He lost the May 2008 election. His successor is repealing it.
    _____________

    I saw the signs for this when we were in London a few years ago and thought it brilliant, though at I believe 10 pounds I thought it to be far too high. I was also not sure how they collected it.

    But the system of subways and busses in London is so good, there is no reason to bring a car anywhere near downtown.

    People have to wake up to the fact that we can't keep expanding the number of lanes to accommodate more traffic. There is a breaking point, seen in most larger cities where long delays and accidents prevail. Better to deal with a little discomfort while the system expands so that the resources can go into better systems.
  47. Sue W from Canada writes: It can be shelved with all the other thousands of useless partially completed government reports collecting dust.

    And in a few years some politician or bureaucrat will have one of those eureka moments and will call for a toll-road study.
  48. Robert P from Canada writes: Unless you feel that roads should be built to infinity tolls don't make sense. Tolls do not reduce traffic - people have to get to work. You need to build better public transport. I saw a story out this week about how residents up in Laval (Quebec's 3rd largest city.. another island just North of Montreal) who live around the newly opened (last year) metro (subway) station are upset because the station is so popular and doesn't have enough parking. Hence, these suburban residents are upset they have to get parking passes now to park in their neighborhood due to the overflow into city streets.

    No need for tolls etc. They built it and they came. All those cars that used to take the expressways to work now park at the metro and take the train in. London is mentioned in the article - now there is a city with good public transit.

    Now, how to fund they systems is the real issue. If there are less cars and hence less gas used there is less tax money collected and hence less funds for such projects . Second, our large cities (the ones that have these traffic problems) which generate most of the wealth in this country do not get their fare share of the taxes collected on this economic output making it hard to fund such projects.
  49. garlick toast from Canada writes: Trudeau's Apricot poodle from Canada writes: Does anyone who is in favour of tolls actually own a car?

    ---------------------------------

    nope,truck
  50. James Young from Brantford, Canada writes: How about limiting population? The world in finite, with ever increasing growth and expansion, there has to be a breaking point. Maybe we are seeing symptoms of this now. Food for thought.

    Durgan.
  51. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes:
    Best not to study such things, we should just shoot from the hip. Studies like this are nothing but gathering facts and trying to figure out how toll roads might work in REALITY.

    And reality has a well-known liberal bias.
  52. Oldowleyes . from Over looking the tar ponds, Canada writes: Delayed due to politics, O what a great country we have, where taxpayers pay and politicians posture.
  53. garlick toast from Canada writes: James Young from Brantford, Canada writes: How about limiting population? The world in finite, with ever increasing growth and expansion, there has to be a breaking point. Maybe we are seeing symptoms of this now. Food for thought.

    Durgan.

    ------------------------------------------

    Not only does the population keep growing but they're coming to Canada, it's inevitable.In the future everyone will be brown and everything will taste like chicken.
  54. Doug Edwards from rural, Canada writes: The conservatives are getting as bad as the liberals. Always trying to find ways to get into provincial jurisdiction. Highways are purely a provincial matter and the feds should keep their nose out of it. They start programs then expect the provincial governments to finance their boondoggles.
  55. Will Hoaccio from Canada writes: rabble rabble rabble!!!
  56. Chris Halford from Ottawa, Canada writes: The timing of the cancellation of the study is extremely suspect. Given the Tories have been in power for 2 and a half years, they must have requested it. So, the cancellation is a purely political move because of the election. Whether the results of the study would have been good or not is hard to say if we don't know the guidelines provided and the study was never done.
  57. Gordon Murray from Canada writes: The recent Google Android contest winners might have something in store, a spin off, those 'footprints' referred to within.
    Not only might sales managers and tax authorities co-ordinate deductibility of sales team travellings, but transit authorities might also use the data more efficiently.

    Just how much consideration is due the Transport Canada 'commissioned' might define for other government contractors how 'abruptly' pans out.

    Just as the Google Android contest team looks domestic publish enough of a first for cars, perhaps pedestrian traffic might be later measured in aggregate via "Bus Stop schedule calls", as suggested/scope-started at:
    http://mypage.skrbl.com/Gpsarrowoutline.html

    www.gm5.ca/#congestion study
  58. James Tod from Vancouver, Canada writes: Well he read some of the things coming out of BC.

    Gordon Campbell, BC Premier, is introducing 3 toll bridges in and out of Surrey and the Fraser Valley. This area constitutes the second largest concentration of population in the province and nobody wants them. I suspect highly that these tolls are the reason his numbers are tumbling.....and not the carbon tax because the NDP's (BC Provincial) version is even more punitive on the average taxpayer.
  59. Mr X from Edmonton, Canada writes: "Jack Jones from Clearwater, BC, Canada writes:
    People who drive SHOULD pay for the damage they do to the environment. I'm perfectly willing to do so. I'm also willing to reduce my driving as much as i am able. "
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Last I checke dpeople who drive maintain jobs and pay taxes. The also pay subsidies for buses and trains for all the low income bums that don't pay taxes. (joking)
  60. Orest Zarowsky from Toronto, Canada writes: Provincial tax on gasoline and other fuels is supposed to be earmarked for road and bridge maintenance. By law. Unfortunately, our governments - of all stripes - have managed to circumvent this requirement and pooled the fuel taxes into general revenue. Just like the funds for health care. This is not a good thing.

    As for public transit, neither the provinces, nor the feds, are particularly interested. Which is lame and pathetic.

    This study would have shown up both levels, but especially the CPC for the liars and hypocrites they are. Especially in the context of the failure to develop and improve public transit and the pandering to land developers who give us the low-density urban sprawl the makes public transit in the suburbs a losing proposition.
  61. David K from Guelph, Canada writes: From the article: "Congestion charges may not be viable in big Canadian cities because there are no feasible public-transit alternatives, according to Mario Iacobacci, director of research for the Conference Board of Canada. "A congestion charge that cannot change travel behaviour will be perceived as nothing but a tax grab," Mr. Iacobacci said in a report released in May."

    And there is the nub of the argument. Transit has been woefully neglected by all levels of government up until now and there are no signs of any change in the near future. The whole notion of any form of "tax" has been so vilified by all parties, especially the Conservatives, that should they ever have to raise money for a worthwhile cause they may just have to hold a bake sale.
  62. Dan Shortt from Toronto, Canada writes: John Connor from Canada writes: "Toronto drivers - start coughing up your fair share!"

    Yea, really. Toronto drivers are going to start paying a $60 tax to renew their licence plate stickers. That tax is expected to generate over $20 million dollars in revenue ... what wil those funds be used for?

    I dunno. Drivers pay taxes on their vehicles, taxes on parts, maintainance and repairs, they pay taxes on every drop of fuel they purchase, The pay money to park everywhere they go, and in Toronto pay a fee to park on the street (essentially a tax), they pay taxes on the insurance they are required to purchase, they pay a fee to renew their driving permit every year, and now this add-on $60 tax ....

    That's right .... when the hell are drivers going to start paying their fair share of taxes?
  63. John Connor from Canada writes: Dan Shortt: You offer good arguments. To a point. Toronto drivers have adequate choices in top flight public transit paid in large measure by the rest of Ontario taxpayers. I do not sympathize with the plight of those who choose to drive their own vehicles when they have other options open.

    I say again, pay up if you want to use the roads and parking lots. We're tired of doing it for you for nothing in return.
  64. Dan Shortt from Toronto, Canada writes: That's fine, John. I'll tell you what the choices are for Toronto drivers.

    You can take the TTC and spend an hour and a half getting to your destination, or you can drive, and get there in 20 minutes. If you are traveling from one subway station to another, it's fine. If you have to get on a streetcar or a bus ... better bring a long novel with you.

    For a single person, it makes sense to take the TTC downtown. $5.00 round trip, and you spend less than your gas and parking fees. But what if you are a group of 4 or 5 people? $20 - $25 on TTC fares, or ....?

    As plenty of TTC users can attest, many a time I've waited for over an hour to catch a Queen streetcar heading east, and that's during rush hour. That's just not acceptable.

    The public transit is NOT top-flight at all. I'll not pay tolls to sit in a traffic jam on the DVP or the 401, regardless. I'll be driving down your little side-street instead, even if it does take longer to get to my destination.
  65. John Connor from Canada writes: Dan, now you're just being petty. Besides, you would have to divert to small town Ontario for a drive down my side street....

    You see Dan, I sympathize with your dilemma, I really do. To a point.

    But no one in the Big Smoke gives a fig for any alternative mode of transportation (or lack thereof) that we may or may not have access to. An you expect us to smile graciously and take it in the rectum every year just to eliminate a two hour commute for you? Mine sir is just as long and I have NO option but to drive myself.

    So pardon me for sounding like I don't care. I do. But the roads run in both directions Dan, so should some of the funding!
  66. Martin Fedgrass from Canada writes: They better cancel these studies

    We already have tolls....they are called TAXES!!!!!!!!
  67. Stephanie Salmons from Milton, Canada writes: Dan Shortt: I'll never take public transit again. It just isnt an option. One of the last times I took it I was 6 months pregnant, the streetcar was so packed and hot, everyone in the seats pretended like they did not see me nor that they spoke english. On this trip I was shoved to the ground by someone who couldnt bother to apologize or even help me up. It didnt make matters any better that being 5'1, I cannot reach the upper bars to grab onto.

    Toronto does not have a good transit system. They are slow, unreliable, and over capacitated. Try and take a stroller down the stairs at a subway station - its very unnerving to have to carry a stroller with a child in it down stairs because there are either no elevators or the elevators are out of service. What about buying groceries? I will not pay a cab driver - I simply do not support the aggressive, rude and inconsiderate driving that they symbolize.

    Dan, you are completely right. Tolls will not ease the congestion any and they will not goto road repairs. Maybe businesses just need to leave Toronto - afterall, keep it up and the majority of people that commute to work will not be able to afford it.
  68. Martin Fedgrass from Canada writes: This is such a waste of time and money. The main reason is that cars are not the problem...oil is the problem.......if we had governments that truly cared, they would aggressively push for electric and hydrogen cars.

    This country is not suited for public transit...too small a population spread out over large areas....it makes no sense!!!! No one will use it outside of Toronto (last time i checked - this was a minority of the province). It will only serve to put money in the pockets of the train and bus manufacturers and the government (oops, did i just uncover the real secret??!!)

    As for Toronto, unless they are prepared to unearth the piece of sh#t system they have now and replace it with a better, cost-effective system, then dont waste our time!
  69. Two Cents from Toronto, Canada writes: "Congestion charges may not be viable in big Canadian cities because there are no feasible public-transit alternatives..." - damn right!
  70. John Fedup from Canada writes: A summary of some comments:

    Gas taxes should be used for roads, not general revenue.
    Public transit needs to work before gov'ts can impose congestion charges.
    There should be no tolls on existing 400 series highways. We already paid for them and gas tax revenue, license plate fees, and drivers license fees are sufficient to maintain them. Furthermore, there will never be any public transit alternative to 400 series highways other than Go trains in our lifetimes.
  71. Dan Shortt from Toronto, Canada writes: John Connor from Canada writes: "Toronto drivers have adequate choices in top flight public transit paid in large measure by the rest of Ontario taxpayers.... I say again, pay up if you want to use the roads and parking lots." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ It seems that you are upset, John, about taxpayers having to foot the bill for public transit. It sounds like you are advocating that drivers start paying the true cost of the "roads and parking lots" they use. I've no real problem with a user-pay system. Let the taxes motorists pay on their fuel and related transportation items be dedicated to highway upkeep and the building of new highways. But the problem with toll is that goverments want to collect more funds from motorists, and use the money to build more public transit. Now, how does that jive with the idea of "users pay your own way." that you advocate? If covering the cost of their transport system is a good idea for drivers, then it's a good idea for public transit users as well, isn't it? Why should motorist be expected to underwrite the cost of transit, so that transit users can reach their destination using somebody else's dime? No, I say let the transit user cover the cost of his ride, just like people expect motorists to do. They might find it costs a bit more than a couple of buck for that bus ride across town or that light rail ride into the city ...
  72. Dennis sinneD from Calgary, Canada writes: Gossipy Busybody from Canada writes:"Folks -- don't kid yourselves. Harper ordered this study cancelled. He has big plans in store for us... he's just not telling us what they are. Check out:
    http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Opinion/1077175.html

    to see what's ahead. "

    ..

    You are aware that is an OPINION column, right?
  73. John Connor from Canada writes: Dan Shortt: You've missed the point entirely.
    Toronto has a transit system, already bought and paid for (?) by the province (us) If you find it inadequate, you have my sympathy. At least you have one to complain about.

    You see Dan, we pay twice. Once to supply you with an inadequate system of transit which we ourselves will never come to loathe, since we don't use it - it's in Toronto, not South Western Ontario - the other in taxes to fix the roads in your city deemed vital by your drivers to lazy or self-important to use the transit system WE paid for.

    Shall I tell you how I really feel about the situation, or is it becoming more clear now?

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