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Harper sets terms for listeriosis investigation

The Canadian Press

Latest comment posted at 6:32 PM EST 06/09/08

Probe will look at effectiveness of federal agencies' response, as well as prevention programs ...Read the full article

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  1. Mike McFae from Canada writes: Hey , people can banter all day about each party making political hay over this investigation. The main thing is that it is being investigated.
  2. John Gzowski from Canada writes: Its being investigated, but won't look at the main question.

    Did the change in rules put in place by the conservatives have anything to do with this outbreak?

    Also, its being set to deflect criticism until after the election, but I expect its still going to be a big issue.
  3. Kyoto........ Here Boy from Calgary, Canada writes: I would guess that whomever may have not cleaned the equipment as specified by CFIA and AIB, and possibly signed off on the documents that they did, will be hanging on a meat-hook by the end of this inquiry.
    Anyone who suggests that Harper or the Cons had anything to do with this is pretty much an idiot.
  4. Buenaventura Durruti from Canada writes: While it is pretty idiotic to treat this as if Stephan Harper himself personally contaminated the meat and equipment used to process it, chalking it up to coincidence that this happened after her deregulated food inspection is akin to burying ones head in the sand.
  5. Rob D from Handsomeville, Canada writes: Where does Harps get his unending arrogance from?
    Where does this clown get off setting the terms of this investigation.

    Right out of the gate, this will be lacking in objectivity and is a bigger waste of time than the election call he is about to make.

    This dude is scarey.
  6. True North from Canada writes: Not included in scope: a review of the Harper government's move to privatize food inspection and let the same people who produce food also certify its safety.

    Harper cannot be trusted
  7. James Tod from Vancouver, Canada writes: John Gzowski from Canada writes:

    You hit the nail on the head. The problems with this government is not the events and actions they make public. But all the behind the scenes changes they enact. Here we have deaths and illness, and yet they are going to blame government agencies and not those who set the conditions for those agencies to follow.
  8. Carl C. from Montreal, Canada writes: With the conservatives, we already know the result of the investigation: Privatize everything... :(
  9. garry heaps from toronto-home of urban voters, Canada writes: let's make sure all of steve'r's campaign stops are catered with cold cuts.
    problem solved.
  10. Dr Strangelove from Tango, Tonga writes: Kyoto........ Here Boy from Calgary, Canada writes:
    Anyone who suggests that Harper or the Cons had anything to do with this is pretty much an idiot.
    ---
    This is Walkerton No 2 - same color of government, same negligence. How much Harper personally was involved we don't know, since no one else is allowed to speak on behalf of the government.
  11. Voice of Reason from Ottawa, Canada writes: I just wonder who the scapegoat will be?
  12. Derek Holtom from Swan River (only cowards use fake names on here), Canada writes: did I not read a story that they think the contamination might have come from deep inside a machine, something not normally cleaned as per regulations set a long time ago?
  13. Peter Kells from Bytown, Canada writes: This is a typical tactical mover by Mr. Harper to deflect questions to the real issue. No surprise here, just another day in Mr. Harpers land of Machiavelli.
  14. A B from Calgary Area, Canada writes: (vii) Investigate and submit findings as to why The Minister of Health, Anthony 'Tony Cement' Clement, was partying and drinking at the Democratic National Convention all the time that this health fiasco was coming to light
  15. Bert Russell Paradox, BC from Canada writes:
    The change in rules to self regulation has nothing to do with a particular Government ... in spite of the spin that partisan posters are putting on it.
    The Food Industry dropped the ball, they were and are responsible to put safety and the interest of the public first and they failed (period). If they lose market share then its up to them to earn back public trust.
  16. Still Learning at 78 from Canada writes: Is this the same Mr Harper's boys that wanted the US to lower their standards for meat inspections to make Canadian packers happy. Give me a break from this Control Freak.
  17. evelyn robinson from Canada writes: this program/ probe will be cancelled next month while they ponder and hope everyone just forgets
  18. Bob McDonald from Canada writes: NeoCons don't want anyone to suggest that the gov't could have anything to do with the Listeriosis outbreak. They are the same ones that continue to blame the Walkerton catastrophe exclusively on the Koebel brothers. To the 'die-easy' NeoCons, it will all come down to some pathetic low-level inspector or machine cleaner.

    These are the same folks that blamed Viet Nam on the grunts and peace-niks at home while celebrating Westmoreland as a hero. Creepy!
  19. Larry Murphy from Canada writes: Bob McDonald from Canada writes: NeoCons, it will all come down to some pathetic low-level inspector or machine cleaner.

    Note to Bob: The cleaning standards are set by Maple Leaf, and are reviewed by Provincial/Federal/U.S. inspectors. Yes, there are real standards that must be followed.
    With meat, the machines are to be torn down EVERY DAY and sanitized. Each day documents are to be signed stating that this was done to the letter.
    Now, if the machine was not torn down and cleaned as per HACCP guidelines, then yes IT WILL BE SOME INSPECTOR OR CLEANER, but more than likely management who should have known it was not being cleaned properly.
    Really, you only make yourself look foolish speaking of something you clearly know nothing about and projecting your progessive shortcomings on Harper and the Cons.
    Pathetic.
  20. J S from Canada writes: I know a really easy prevention measure - put federal inspectors back on the floor where they belong. Having a company 'inspect' itself is just plain dumb. Just like Harper's Conservatives to reduce public safety to save a couple of bucks - probably so him and his party can steal it through a new scam during the next election.
  21. Dr Strangelove from Tango, Tonga writes: Bert Russell Paradox, BC from Canada writes:
    The change in rules to self regulation has nothing to do with a particular Government ... in spite of the spin that partisan posters are putting on it.
    The Food Industry dropped the ball, they were and are responsible to put safety and the interest of the public first and they failed (period).
    ----
    Of course they were responsible - and it is the state's responsibility to provide effective control and enforcement. Both the companies and the government have cut corners and let the people down.
  22. M B from Canada writes: Bert Russell Paradox, BC from Canada writes:
    The change in rules to self regulation has nothing to do with a particular Government ... in spite of the spin that partisan posters are putting on it.
    The Food Industry dropped the ball, they were and are responsible to put safety and the interest of the public first and they failed (period). If they lose market share then its up to them to earn back public trust.
    Posted 06/09/08 at 8:41 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

    Well, Bert, you win the prize for the MOST RIDICULOUS COMMENT so far.

    You see, the thing is, Bert, the food industry is out to make money; that is their sole purpose.

    However, the purpose of Govt. is to keep us safe, to inspect food products to ensure that they are safe.

    To say that folks in the food industry will have to cope with loss of market share if they fail to provide a safe product is just plain insane. Like it's OK to kill us with a contaminated product as long as they pay the consequences.

    The thing is, Bert, we can't trust for-profit people to keep us safe. Govt. has to play a role in making inspections to keep them honest.
  23. Palos Green from Barrie, Canada writes: Industry regulating itself is like...
    A fox in change of the hen house.
    A monkey running the zoo.
    A conservative in charge of public safety.
  24. Silver Standard (Used to be gold) from Canada writes: Yes lets cut food inspections Mr Harper...the other Candidates better bring up this during the debate..they need it.
  25. l thibl from Canada writes: I’m so happy that I have Presidente Harper, oops Premier Harper, but if he can&8217;t even tell me an election date, what can he possibly tell me about listeria?
  26. Joe Citizen from Everytown, Canada writes: Let me see now ..... Stephen Harper wants to frame the question as ' the effectiveness of federal agencies response ' .

    By this does he mean the effectiveness of the federal agencies response once a problem has occured ?

    Mr.Harper, what about preventing the problem in the first place which is exactly what regulation in the form of federal meat inspectors actually inspecting meat processing facilities has always been about. You mention prevention programs. Prevention programs (federal meat inspectors) are what we have had all along.

    However, in your infinite wisdom and desire to deregulate and slash public service you very quietly without notifying the public ( your gracious employer ) decided to shift responsibility to the meat industry in March of this year. And voila ! .... look what we have now. The death of thirteen Canadians. You should feel shame for your actions. Are you a man of conscience ? If so, do the right thing.

    Stand up and acknowledge the connection between these events and your actions.

    The Canadian people need answers now to this national tragedy !

    I can't not recall such a single Canadian dying from a similar event in modern history.

    What else have you quietly done ..... that Canadians need to know about ?
  27. Pedro Pedro from Canada writes: The regulations that meat processing plants operate under did not change in March. Anyone who makes that allegation is falling for Liberal spin in a very gullible way.

    The Meat Inspection Regulations and Food and Drug Regulations for meat and meat products have not been changed for several years (under a Liberal government no less).

    What changed in March was that CFIA inspectors began working under a standardized approach to ensure that the same inspection activities and verification steps were done consistenly across the country. By documententing their activities and verifying the records of the plants being inspected, it is easier to identify areas that need improving and ensure that activities that must have been considered lower priority by individual inspectors were actually done.

    There has been no reduction of inspectors. In March 2008, there were 3,020 by inspectors at the CFIA (up from 2,820 in 2006) and this was before a $113 million boost to the CFIA budget in the 2008 federal budget.

    The PM should be fair game during an election campaign but do it based on his actual failings, not pretend ones.
  28. M B from Canada writes: Well, Bob Crier, SARS, and Walkerton were under the watch of Tony Clement when he was Minister of Health in Ontario. Water testing and regulations are under provincial jurisdiction. As I understand it, Clement cut back on inspectors in Ontario (sound familiar?) and yes the brothers in Walkerton were responsible--but, the provincial system of checking water safety had broken down. As for SARS--how many deaths under Clement's watch? How many deaths due to SARS in Vancouver? None.
  29. aging oldtool from Canada writes: Thanks for raising some of those issues bob crier from TO.

    Especially the Walkerton fiasco. That deadly event actually occurred under the careful watch of such staunch CPC cabinet ministers as Jim Flaherty, and Tony Clement.

    Odd, the similarities between Walkerton and the Maple Leaf's mess, eh bob?

    The Walkerton poisoning was partily the result of the reduction of inspection services acrossOntario under the Conservative government both Flaherty and Clement helped lead.

    The government may have saved a few bucks but since there no real solid back up reviews of individual water provider operations. People died.

    Now we have Ottawa working to cut meat inspection by allowing industry to police itself. Of sure, the federal inspectors will still scan company reports, but is that what professional inspectors are hired for?

    And this prime minister now wants to use an enquiry AFTER the election to blame the entire fiasco in the public servants.

    No, this plan smells like overripe cheese Bob. It's simply another example of an increasingly panicked Harper fearing any one of many issues he has left dangling will ripen and fall before we participate in this supposed democratic election.
  30. Patrick King from Canada writes: When it comes to protecting human lives, I always welcome the government to be more involved. That said, I think no regulation can prevent gross negligence. Therefore, I propose the food industry to follow the footsteps of the investment industry. I don't know whether they have one now, but if not, they may want to set up a self-regulatory organization (SRO) to review and improve methods and procedures to ensure food safety. Michael McCain should champion this initiative. We are talking about human lives here, it's no laughing matter. Getting government food inspectors out on the floor is good, but it will double the effectiveness if the industry regulates itself.
  31. Phil Gardner from Canada writes: Well it is about time. 2 1/2 weeks of the most serious public health crisis in food safety we have had in a very long time and Harper decides that it might be a good idea for his government to have a look into it ???
    The Harper Conservatives have given up their responsibility for Public Health for the Canadain people ! They do not deserve to be our national government any longer. ANYONE BUT the Harper Conservatives. THEIR TIME IS UP.
  32. Anthony Warren from Canada, Canada writes: This is yet again another idiotic scare that has been blown out of all proportion by the press and now the Government. It is reminiscent of another scare in the late 80's in the UK about Listeriosis that resulted in over-regulation to no effect. It cost the UK economy billions of dollars and did not reduce the health risk from food borne illnesses one bit. The source of the strain has been found, Maple Leaf Foods reacted responsibly and the event is over. At this point has not even been proven that all of these particular deaths are actually linked to meat that came from those saws. It is not known at all how much meat may have been contaminated. It does seem scientifically doubtful that the listeria somehow leaped from the innards of two machines into the supply of meat being processed. What is clear is that there was no other source of the organism in the plant when it was originally tested. The only connection is that listeria appeared in the meat and the meat came from one plant. It seems improbable to the point of statistical irrelevance that the cutting equipment was the cause. However, listeria is incredibly common and for the most part beneficial. Attempts to eradicate it would be impossible. I think a thorough investigation should be made of the employees of the plant and the way in which they may have contaminated the meat. It is more highly probable (as was the case in most of the Listeriosis poisoning in the UK) that it came from a worker who had a case of it, than from the plant or machinery in it. Cheers, Bloefeld
  33. Is there anybody out there? from Salt Spring Island, Canada writes: Deadly Conservative negligence not to be mentioned.
  34. Robert Billyard from Mission BC, Canada writes: This is Harper's Walkerton, and there is no need for an investigation. This is what happens when you have governments recklessly deregulating and abdicating their responsibilities.
  35. wayne ouellette from Canada writes: Liberal Ontario, Liberal Quebec. Where were they? As a liberal you really need to look at something to hang your hat on. No matter what happens that is unfortunate in Canada liberals blame Mike Harris or Stephen Harper. Canadians are tired of hearing the same old negative, whining venom. Your leader is weak. Your party is heading for third party status. Only a MINORITY of Canadians agree with your idiotic dribble. Chew on that and look in the mirror. Start thinking Canada first.
  36. forty sum from Canada writes: Harper has made a mess of this country, he got in bed long before he was elected with Bush and Bush's Iraq dream, Harper said income trusts were safe, 'Not', Harper said fixed elections were the way to go, 'Not' Flaherty tells the provincial governments to raise taxes if they do not like the money Ottawa returns for social programs, Flaherty trying to destroy investment in Ontario, Flaherty, Clements, and Baird all part of the Harris government that removed qualified inspecters causing the Walkerton problem, then the Sars problem also the Dudley George shooting, those three we can afford to and should lose. Afghanistan a war we are losing and only going to get worse, his climate change program is a farce.

    This countries good name and what Canada was, has eroded world wide, Thanks to Harper.

    Dump Harper
  37. Orest Zarowsky from Toronto, Canada writes: @ wayne ouellette: Wayne, we had an inquiry into Walkerton. And the conclusion was that the Harris government was responsible for that debacle. Reality - deal with it.

    Oh, and Wayne, it was Harris's policies that broke the reporting chain between the private labs and the Local Medical Officer of Health that made the debacle possible. You can be certain that if a copy of the report that was sent to Stan had been simultaneously sent to the LMOH, a boil water order would have been issued immediately. And there would have been no deaths or injuries.

    I won't even go into the fact that Harris effectively destroyed the Ministry of the Environment as part of his programme.

    You RRW fools never learn from experience. Why is that?
  38. Kyoto........ Here Boy from Calgary, Canada writes: You guys are really retar... oops.... Learning Disabled.

    Once and for all, there is NO WAY that a plant can operate without TRAINED/CERTIFIED inspectors, be it internally or some federal parasite. The other agencies who inspect facilities (AIB, etc) would give you a failing grade and your customers would never do business with you.

    My god, are you really that slow on the uptake that you can't get this through your head?
  39. Vern McPherson from writes:
    Why not ask the front line inspectors who do the work ???

    'The Harper government has changed the way government inspectors do their work at meat plants such as the Maple Leaf facility in Toronto.
    A new system, which began on March 31, puts an emphasis on the auditing of company records instead of direct visual inspections.
    The union has been critical of the move toward self-regulation.
    Kingston says his members have expressed fears about how limitations on how much time they spend on plant floors will affect the safety of the food Canadians buy.
    And, while Harper has emphasized a $113-million boost in funding for food and product safety in the 2008 budget, the union said the Tories actually have plans to slash funding for food safety programs.
    Tory spending plans would see funding for food safety programs cut by almost 30 per cent from 2006 to 2011, the union said. It cited numbers from the Treasury Board of Canada Reports on Plans and Priorities.
    Figures from the same source suggest the Conservatives would cut food safety staff by 19 per cent during the same period, the union said.'

    http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=d1f41b59-ad3a-4a45-884d-526b15ec27ad

    Who is fibbing who here ???
  40. Dr Strangelove from Tango, Tonga writes: Anthony Warren from Canada, Canada writes:

    "The source of the strain has been found, Maple Leaf Foods reacted responsibly and the event is over. At this point has not even been proven that all of these particular deaths are actually linked to meat that came from those saws. It is not known at all how much meat may have been contaminated. ... It seems improbable to the point of statistical irrelevance that the cutting equipment was the cause."

    Isn't that a little contradictory - you declare the event over and then proceed to explain that it has not been properly accounted for at all?
    ---
    "However, listeria is incredibly common and for the most part beneficial."

    Not every bacterium that is common is beneficial, and Listeria is not beneficial at all. It can be confused with other, harmless bacteria on superficial inspection and thus is a logical beneficiary of inadequate surveillance. It is also resistant to cephalosporin antibiotics, which are often used in the initial treatment for infections of unknown origin; adequate treatment will then only begin after the bacterium has been correctly identified, which will take one or several days. Therefore, it is important to keep up alertness and not declare the crisis over prematurely.
  41. Vern McPherson from writes:
    Pedro Pedro from Canada writes: The regulations that meat processing plants operate under did not change in March. Anyone who makes that allegation is falling for Liberal spin in a very gullible way.
    The Meat Inspection Regulations and Food and Drug Regulations for meat and meat products have not been changed for several years (under a Liberal government no less).
    What changed in March was that CFIA inspectors began working under a standardized approach to ensure that the same inspection activities and verification steps were done consistenly across the country. By documententing their activities and verifying the records of the plants being inspected, it is easier to identify areas that need improving and ensure that activities that must have been considered lower priority by individual inspectors were actually done.

    ===================================

    Gobbldygok. Bureaucratize ...........

    Inspectors inspect. If the COns want clerks to monitor companies' plant activities and file paperwork then hire CLERKS.

    What has happened is the COns govt turned inspection over to plant personnel and instructed Inspectors to monitor - ONLY. That is what is going on. WRONG !!!!
  42. Catherine Wilkie from Canada writes: And what do the inspectors themselves say about the system? Shouldn't Harper care about the 'stakeholders' as well as Maple Leaf 'shareholders?'
    Oops. Forgot. Harper, friend of corporate Canada.
    Ordinary Canadians? Watch what you eat and drink.
  43. Lyn Alg from Canada writes: So now Stephanie Harpinski is planning to review the effectiveness of Canada's food inspection system after he personally changed the rules to allow the food conglomerates to police themselves? Is this what you're proposing Booby? Is this JERK for real? Give your big fat head an earth shattering shake, Booby!
  44. Republic of Saturn from Canada writes:
    I would think again to buy any these kind of meat, damn dangerous.

    I worked in a resturant when came to Canada, they never clean the meat cutting machines, I don't think any food factories or resturants here even think of cleaning them.
  45. John Ishmael from Brampton ON, Canada writes:

    FROM THE CULTURE THAT GAVE US WALKERTON WATER DEATHS AND MAIMED... COMES..

    Harper sets restrictions on Listeriosis investigation. John Gzowski cuts to the chase:

    >>>John Gzowski from Canada writes: Its being investigated, but won't look at the main question.

    Did the change in rules put in place by the conservatives have anything to do with this outbreak?

    If Canadians vote for the Cons they deserve more of the same Con health inspections.
  46. John Ishmael from Brampton ON, Canada writes: NO POLITICIAN OF ANY PARTY WOULD WANT THIS...HOMOCIDES

    BUT - Deaths from Walkerton water, Listeriosis, Sunrise Propane ... should be treated as homidices with politicians as the perps.
  47. R. M. from Canada writes: The National Post has a main headline article where the union SLAMS the investigation saying their members in the food inspection process are merely victims......oh right!!! Unbelievable.......they forget when they point a finger how many others point back.

    The Globe and Mail comment section has become a "society" of venomous asps...truly it is ....just look at the spleen venting and political rhetoric in this section.
  48. scott thomas from Canada writes: The terms of the investigation are limited to how well Harper's policies were implemented, but avoid examining the failures of Harper's policies themselves. That's his common sense.
  49. Sandra L from Canada writes: What a hypocrite, setting the terms for an enquiry when he covers up any and all investigations into his own wrongdoing.

    At least Mr. McCain and Maple Leaf food company have taken full responsibility for their mistake and taken extraodinary steps to deal with it.

    Dictator Harper could take some lessons from Mr. McCain.
  50. Roop Misir from Toronto, Canada writes: A catchy election slogan?

    Would it help if people consume meat that's thoroughly cooked?
  51. Richard Keefer from Omemee, writes: Does life imitate art or art imitate life?

    The brilliant BBC series "Yes Minister" seems to be a guidebook for Stephen Harper, following the script for the spoof minister and then PM character "Jim Hacker".

    Want to bury an issue? Satirically, call for a commission or inquiry, and be sure to chair it with a washed-out, sycophantic professor/judge who's already in your pocket or in need of a particular perc.

    Edwina Curry became a byword for the Brits with a series of late-80s food scares. First salmonella with eggs, and a biggy of listeria in chilled foods. The latter was approached maturely, and all any lazy commission/inquiry head today would have to do is incorporate this and later EEC work by reference, or crib it mutatis mutandis. There were some meetings of the time at Health Canada/Tunney's Pasture, involving a key MAFF player.

    I have a copy of the time-capsule book "Commission of the European Communities: Chilled Foods: The State of the Art", with a Post-It on Chapter 13 "Microbiology of Chilled Foods", for which listeria was just one of several bugs of interest.

    Whether it's refrigerated sliced meats or the broader category of chilled foods, next up should be consumer/retail deli handling practices. Potentially after the present controversy, Maple Leaf could wind up being targeted in situations actually caused/exacerbated by bad handling of their products. Care to guess how many consumer refrigerators do not provide safe storage temperatures, and how this impacts on best-by dates?

    Past fixing Maple Leaf and the regulatory framework (Stephen Hacker?), an early step should be consumer and customer refreshers on handling. Can Maple Leaf be creative, even snazzy? Liquid crystal or thermochromic temperature and temperature-time labelling? Flag unsafe consumer and customer refrigeration, even adjust best-by dates? Make or buy? Maple Leaf could start by calling 3M for samples of its MonitorMark indicators?
  52. Philip McRae from Vancouver, Canada writes: listeriosis is a bacteria. Harper controls bacteria. Escherichia coli is a bacteria that infected Walkertons water supply under the liberal Chretien. Jean Chretien controlled bacteria. Therefore it is a fact that all Prime Ministers are given dominion over bacteria.
  53. R. M. from Canada writes: I guess the G&M does not like or accept posts relating to the National Post so I will try again. The National Post has a lead article about how the union representing the inspectors are upset that they would be investigated.......I mean heaven forbid that a union employee might have been slacking off or implicated......
  54. Tories Lied from Canada writes: Trust a LEADER not a LIAR-vote Liberal
  55. R M from Ottawa, Canada writes:
    Harper probably lying again:

    1 - Lied about fixed election dates - don't vote for liars

    2 - Lied about income trusts - don't vote for liars

    3 - Goes to G-G's at 8am on a Sunday morning to call an illegal election - don't vote for idiots who don't respect anyone else's private time, and take their country's population for a bunch of idiots who will vote for liars.
  56. K. Little from Canada writes: Boy that was quick....considering how long it took him to call investigations into Air-Bus...... Cadman....... Bernier........ the list goes on.

    The investigative committe is set to report 2 weeks after the legislated fixed date election..... Oct 2009.

    Unless a sitting minister, CPC donor, con-bagman or a close friend like Brian M is mentioned, or a by-election is not going well for the CPC. Then the committee will automatically be declared dysfunctional.

    And we'll have another expensive cover-up; I mean election.
  57. Pedro Pedro from Canada writes: Vern McPherson,

    How do you think bacteria are found - by inspectors walking around the plant with super goggles that magnify the bacteria so they can be spotted?

    No, swabs and tests and then the test results are examined (the test results are on paper - hence the paper review aspect).

    According the CFIA report on plans and priorities which the union was selectively quoting, all of the budget changes are accounted for from the sunsetting of some programs and some one time payments in previous years that will not be repeated.

    End of BSE market recovery program - $20.2 million
    Sunsetting of resources for Agricultural Policy Framework- $5.3 million Transfer for (InterVac) Biosafety Level III Containment Facility- $4.0 million Cost Efficiencies Savings Exercise - $3.5 million
    End of BSE transition program $3.2 million
    Sunsetting or resources for the Invasive Alien Species Strategy - 11.5 million

    All of which are partially offset by $24.7 million for a new BSE program
  58. Philip McRae from Vancouver, Canada writes: Psst! Harper's responsible for bacteria. Pass it on. Not the employees, the manufacturer or the province, Harper. Harper's responsible for bacteria.
  59. scott thomas from Canada writes: Philip McRae, don't be disingenuous. Political policy determines bacteria. Hear me out. When Harris downloaded the responsibilities and the costs of water quality away from Provincial inspections, the fact that some poor communities would fail to ensure a healthy water supply could have been predicted. Just ask the provincial cabinet ministers then that are federal cabinet ministers now. When Harper privatizes the inspection of food in his race to the bottom, the fact that some companies under pressure to increase profits would fail to ensure a healthy food supply could be predicted. I'm a little sick and tired of the defend-the-indefensible brigade trolling this blog. Remember when there was a time that to call yourself a conservative was to be respectable? Now you're just a dinosaur. I mean really, who's Joe Clark voting for?
  60. Philip McRae from Vancouver, Canada writes: scott thomas, the only one being disingenuous are you liberal shills who need to blame rather than hold the manufacturer or industry responsible. Harper has nothing to do with the daily operations of any particular industry. It rests on the worker and the employee to ensure that their product meets the best public consideration. You can't legislate ethical behavior and the idea that legislation guarantees safety is bogus big government liberalism. At Walkerton the employees failed to do their best. At Maple Leaf, cheese producers, mushroom farms, even the cattle farms and spinach farms, whatever, are all ultimately responsible for their product. Blaming government or lack of inspectors or anyone else is just a way to mitigate their own complicity. It may well answer for you but not for me. It's like these drivers who get into accidents and then immediately blame the weather, the road, or the time of day to run from responsibility. It all comes down to the individual and no government agency ought to have to stand over you with a stick for you to behave decently. It's a cop out. And accidents do happen, but rather than create more government lets have a greater emphasis placed on the manufacturer/producer/farmer. It's their duty to see that their very best reaches market. Not slough off lazy ineptitude for a quick buck. And they are the ones who ought to pay, not the tax payer.
  61. anoni moose from Mega Un_Regulated, Canada writes: " Philip McRae from Vancouver, Canada writes: scott thomas, the only one being disingenuous are you liberal shills who need to blame rather than hold the manufacturer or industry responsible. Harper has nothing to do with the daily operations of any particular industry."

    I hold both the industry & Harper responsible for this debacle. The movement to set up an agency to watch over our food was initiated under the Liberals so they must share in part for any blame doled out to government.

    However the current government has taken the "regulation by industry for industry" dogma too far. There always has to be a hands on oversight capability, just for the sake of a having a check & balance dynamic.

    It's plainly common sense to have both industry & government inspectors working hand & hand to make the food chain safer.

    To set up a probe that merely provides information without culpability is obviously a dodge of this governments responsibility.

    Had the party in power been honourable, Minister Ritz would have resigned as the head of the department/agency in charge.
    Then the voters could have spoken as to whether He was fit to be reelected.

    We have the same thing in a sense, with the forthcoming election. Just without the honour and decency of ministries past.

    Shame to the Harper government, I hope they are held accountable for it.
  62. scott thomas from Canada writes: Don't make me laugh, Philip. Harper has nothing to do with any industry? Then I guess he should give up governing. But given the billions that he's spent on pre-election spending, it's pretty clear that now that he can't buy Cadman's vote, he'll just try to go straight to the source. Remember the Canadian taxpayer federation? Check out their list of taxpayer bribes to the public at http://www.taxpayer.com/main/index.php To position Harper as financially ethical (the taxpayer shouldn't pay, or so you say) why don't you just admit the cons will do anything, even break their own election date law, to win power. Makes you wonder what they know that we don't to cut their losses on that ethical point. Remember when there was a time that to call yourself conservative was respectable? I mean really, who's David Crombie voting for?
  63. Philip McRae from Vancouver, Canada writes: anoni moose, you want to punish a minister for a bacteria that the manufacturer allowed to proliferate by inattention to basic food safe principles and general cleaning? How large of you. I'm not against inspection. Once a year, sans notice inspections. Sure. If the industry, manufacturer, farmer require more to behave as decent citizens then they ought not be allowed to be in that business. It ought to be incumbent, and morally and ethically binding upon industry, manufacturing, farmers to be held responsible for there errors or omissions. Blaming government is a cop out.
    "Had the party in power been honourable, Minister Ritz would have resigned as the head of the department/agency in charge.
    Then the voters could have spoken as to whether He was fit to be reelected." Your obvious partisanship aside shouldn't it be proved that a minister had fore knowledge and let the bacteria proliferate? I'mean if your going to BLAME a minister of government. Justice. You have no real sense of justice and you use such imagery to push your liberal attack on this government. Your a phony.
  64. Philip McRae from Vancouver, Canada writes: scott thomas, now your true liberal partisan shilling really comes to the forefront. What a dufus. And your allowed to vote? Sheesh. I guess The Dion must be really desperate for followers. Have another glass of kool-aid while you wait for your spaceship to liberal la la land.
  65. R. M. from Regina, Canada writes: R.M. from Ottawa I'm kind of embarrassed I share your initials when I read your name calling and bitter comments. Do you have any points to make???
  66. scott thomas from Canada writes: Philip: Canadian Taxpayer Federation. The very furthest from liberal partisan shilling.

    http://www.taxpayer.com/main/index.php

    Remember when there was a time, when to call ourselves, and I repeat, ourselves, conservative was respectable?

    And quick, stop trolling already - you just spelled "your" wrong, and I'm pretty sure that you've spelled dufus wrong too. The point of these blogs is the intelligent sharing of information, not lowbrow insults.
  67. anoni moose from Mega Un_Regulated, Canada writes: "anoni moose, you want to punish a minister for a bacteria that the manufacturer allowed to proliferate by inattention to basic food safe principles and general cleaning? "

    He was in charge when the system that failed to do it's job, therefore by all precedent He is responsible.

    "Your obvious partisanship aside shouldn't it be proved that a minister had fore knowledge and let the bacteria proliferate? "

    His ministry oversaw the change in protocol on March of this year that had the inspectors doing paperwork instead of hands on testing. Therefore He had foreknowledge & approved of the process that allowed this to be missed.

    If I was being strictly partisan I would not have mentioned the previous gov.'s role in this.

    The phony imagery( ministerial responsibility) that you heap disdain on has been good enough for the British Parliament, ours up until now and many others.

    What is it that's so special about this government that you feel they should abrogate their responsibilities like no other?

    How can you defend the indefensible such as you do?
    The answer clearly is that you are the one being blatantly partisan in all your posts regarding this matter.

    As I said previously, shame on Harper & his government for sidestepping the blame for this that they so clearly deserve.
  68. Philip McRae from Vancouver, Canada writes: scott thomas, I'm not conservative party so don't say we. I'm not defending government because of a party but because they are not responsible. Knowing the difference is important to me and any effort to defeat the big fat lazy government bureaucracy is part of my personal ideal. I'll support any party who will give the least amount of Federal government intervention and maximize the power of the province. You are not consistent for today you blame the feds but when referencing Walkerton you blamed the province. You don't blame Chretien. Hmmmm. Coincidence that both happen to be your "we" government. When to be honest you should of held Chretien to the same standard of blame as you do Harper.
  69. Philip McRae from Vancouver, Canada writes: anoni moose, "He was in charge when the system that failed to do it's job, therefore by all precedent He is responsible."
    LOL. The listeriosis outbreak is pan industry not focused solely on any single manufacturing sector or producer.

    "How can you defend the indefensible such as you do?"
    This has nothing to do with inspection by government. It has everything to do with particular individual producers. And what has yet to be determined through an investigation because of listeriosis showing up near simultaneously in more than one province. Unless your suggesting that the outbreak is a conspiracy of provincial inspectors across Canada instituted by a federal minister. Ooooooh! Scary.

    I think I'll wait for some further science on fact, not your trash liberal 'govemint' is responsible yak yak.
  70. anoni moose from Mega Un_Regulated, Canada writes: "And what has yet to be determined through an investigation because of listeriosis showing up near simultaneously in more than one province. Unless your suggesting that the outbreak is a conspiracy of provincial inspectors across Canada instituted by a federal minister."

    I think that what you'll find once the dust clears & all the dead are buried is that a directive went out to the inspectors to actually do inspection, the paperwork can wait. That is why more was found at other locations weeks afterwards.

    You are the one throwing "conspiracy" around, not I.

    I am asking questions relating to the accountability of Harper and his government and why they avoided it.

    Further, You didn't answer my question related to the original occurrence.

    Once it became a known fact that He knew about and approved the new inspection protocols that failed Canadians so terribly, why didn't Minister Ritz resign?

    Is He and this government somehow absolved from their responsibilities as precedence and honour dictate?
  71. Philip McRae from Vancouver, Canada writes: "Once it became a known fact that He knew about and approved the new inspection protocols that failed Canadians so terribly, why didn't Minister Ritz resign?"
    Prove that the new inspection protocols failed Canadians.
    Prove it was a matter of a lack of inspection on the part of the government.
    Otherwise it's just your non factual assertion that you hope will pass for fact. You're not asking, you're insinuating and misrepresenting using language that shows your political bias.
    Never mind that this bacteria no one has ever heard of before, over night begins popping up in several non neighboring provinces and unrelated production from cheese to mushrooms to processed meats. You haven't got a clue. No one does, YET.
  72. Philip McRae from Vancouver, Canada writes: How does Listeria get into food?

    Listeria monocytogenes is found in soil and water. Vegetables can become contaminated from the soil or from manure used as fertilizer.
    Animals can carry the bacterium without appearing ill and can contaminate foods of animal origin such as meats and dairy products. The bacterium has been found in a variety of raw foods, such as uncooked meats and vegetables, as well as in processed foods that become contaminated after processing, such as soft cheeses and cold cuts at the deli counter. Unpasteurized (raw) milk or foods made from unpasteurized milk may contain the bacterium.

    Listeria is killed by pasteurization and cooking; however, in certain ready-to-eat foods such as hot dogs and deli meats, contamination may occur after cooking but before packaging.

    Listeriosis like salmonellosis or ecoli are defeated by basic food safe practices not by government inspection agencies. Manufacturers and producers need to be held responsible for their lack luster attention to proper safe food technique and preparation. AND SO DO CONSUMERS.
  73. anoni moose from Mega Un_Regulated, Canada writes: "Listeriosis like salmonellosis or ecoli are defeated by basic food safe practices not by government inspection agencies."

    BTW It's a bacteria, not an army...

    As I understand it neither are easily killed, but it can be done by three methods.
    1) the food is heated(pasteurization)
    2) chemical additives
    3) An aggressive inspection system.

    Methods 1 & 2 change the texture & taste of the food.
    Method 3 is expensive as more inspection by regulators is needed & it's paid for by the industry.

    Obviously CFIA chose to eliminate or minimize option 3, hence the change in protocols in March this year.

    Less than 5 months later we have a major food infection disaster.
    Try as you might, laying the blame solely on industry just won't cut it.

    I hope Canadians remember how this government acted when they vote, as that's the only way they will take their medicine.
  74. R M from Ottawa, Canada writes:
    R.M. from Regina:

    My points are true, self evident, and any "bitterness" is solely your perception, thank you. And if you support Harper, you SHOULD be embarrassed, for a lot of reasons. Feel free to change your initials anytime.
  75. Megan Ratcliffe from Toronto, Canada writes: First of all, the inquiry, is, quite frankly a waste of taxpayers money, because regardless of what Harper set as the perameters there will still be bipartisan shots and rhetoric that come out as the inquiry goes on and when the report comes out. Usually what happens in an inquiry is that the recommendations are to increase union jobs and make the CFIA even bigger and more bloated than it already is. My hope is that eventually Harper will be able to revamp the food inspection processes so that they are more efficient. But can't say that too loudly because the unionists that are afraid of losing their cushy jobs will howl and say that Harper is harming the health of Canadians. All Harper is trying to do is find a way to make a system that is overloaded with over paid civil servants more efficient. And as someone who's family is involved in agribusiness with a chicken hatchery and has run up against the CFIA's policies at great cost to us, I hope it works. As an example, ONE CFIA inspector, found ONE of our birds with ONE different strain of Salmonella in our chickens that is not harmful to people and we had to destroy the whole flock. When our company called the company in the United States from which we had purchased the birds they had NEVER heard of this particular strain of salmonella. This was the result of ONE civil servant in the CFIA trying to justify his ridiculous salary as "research." We need Harper to reduce the size of the CFIA and make it more efficient. Note I DID NOT say by cutting inspectors. Although I happen to think its impossible to catch everything all the time, and it is up to consumers to be responsible for what they eat and what they feed their children. So to all of those who think Harper is the Devil incarnate and Canada is going to hell if he wins a majority please remember that the food inspection agency was cut under liberal regimes too.
  76. Philip McRae from Vancouver, Canada writes: Megan Ratcliffe, the left remember nothing after 2006.
  77. Philip McRae from Vancouver, Canada writes: anoni moose, you are desperate to believe anyone other than the extreme left partisan hacks are going to blame this on Harper. Thank goodness that Maple Leaf has manned up and done the right thing. They have set the bar for responsibility on the part of the producer/manufacturer.

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