Skip navigation

 Login or Register | Member Centre

Leafs face 'rocky days ahead'

TIM WHARNSBY

Globe and Mail Update

Latest comment posted at 8:50 PM EST 21/09/08

Thin on talent, Toronto keeps hopes in check, Tim Wharnsby reports ...Read the full article

This conversation is closed

  1. Mariposa Belle from Leacockland, Canada writes: Wilson watched a DVD of every game from last season?

    Call the CIA - Wilson has found a replacement for waterboarding.

    Seriously - any Leaf supporter knew that this year was going to be rough after Chainsaw cleared off the dead and diseased stuff. It might be surprising to see how fast health is returned to the tree after this drastic surgery.

    They would have to tank real bad to get into the Tavares lottery, in my opinion.
  2. Former Prairiedog from Canada writes: Leafs fans have to be masochists. Can we see some articles about Canadian teams that have a chance?
    Meanwhile, the rest of Canada gets to look forward to more of the usual lame Saturday night broadcasts out of T'rawna regardless how boring/talentless the team being iced. Must be a privilege that comes with being the centre of the (hockey) universe.
  3. g h from Canada writes: Rocky road ahead? No, no far from it. These will go down as the heady, halcyon days of the Tavares pursuit. Golden days indeed.
    If winning the Stanley Cup is the yang, winning the draft lottery is the yin.
    Go Leafs go.
  4. Adam Laperriere from Canada writes: Tavares is not as good as people think he is.

    He's a great player.

    He's not a Crosby or Ovechkin.
  5. Crash Bear Heads from Canada writes: Tough days ahead for Ron Wilson.

    Let's hope a couple of these guys have career years and Cliff is smart enough to unload them at the trade deadline.
  6. tad bradley from Canada writes: "But maybe a player such as Jason Blake, who dipped to 15 goals last year after scoring 40 the previous season, Alex Steen or Matt Stajan are a little peeved at Fletcher's comment"

    GRAMMATICALLY: But maybe a player such as Jason Blake, who dipped to 15 goals last year after scoring 40 the previous season, Alex Steen or Matt Stajan IS a little peeved at Fletcher's comment
  7. RJ Canuck from Toronto, Canada writes: No more talk then of Matt Stajan becoming captain (which would have been like making Mike Eastwood or Kent Manderville captain in 1993).
  8. John O'Meara from At A Bay, Canada writes: The thought that Jason Blake is one of the 'better' forwards on the team should make Coach Wilson just a tad nervous.
  9. D B from Canada writes: Blake has 1 40 goal season, most of the other times he was in the 25 goal range. So maybe the 40 goal season (which was his last year before free agency was the aberration, not the 15 goal season). I am tired of the writers making it sound like he was conistent 40 goal scorer. Let him have 3 or 4 seasons of 40 goals, then call him that.
  10. Daniel Sturgis from Morocco writes: I'd agree that Toronto has the best chance at getting Tavares, except for how brutal the Ottawa Senators D-corps have become. Tavares is likely going to Ottawa unless Toronto gets the luck of the lottery.
  11. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Daniel Sturgis;

    Although I would love to see Toronto get a lottery pick... I think it is highly unlikely.

    I don't see them making the playoffs either..... Probably finishing somewhere between 18th and 24th. Finishing ahead of NYI, Atlanta, LAK, FLA, PHX, STL and in tight with the likes of BUF, CLB, NAS.

    I'm not convinced that the Rangers or Calgary or Ottawa got any better this summer. Vancouver is also a question mark as is Tampa with their young inexperienced defense.

    There are six teams still above the cap.... where they distribute their players in order to get below the cap could influence where some of the teams listed above end up... but I doubt very much Toronto gets a lottery pick next year.

    Cheers
  12. belsize park from United States writes: oh...i wonder if the leafs could use a player ...like, you know....sort of like a leader..you know..a big guy... strong scorer...play maker.. you know..
    kind of like...sundin?
  13. Proud Canadian from Canada, Canada writes: Personally, I think Cliff is doing the right thing. U can not build from the top down, it has to be from the bottom up. I read an article recently, Toronto is set in goal with Toskola and Cujo. With Pogge taking lessons for later. On defence, they have Kaberle and Kubina. The rest of the spots are up for grabs. One top 6 forward in Anthropov. Thats what I read, not what Im making up. There will be growing pains, going to be plenty of them, but if you are a fan with patience, it will pay off. U can not do what JFJ did, try and buy players who had a good/mediocre season and expect them to be saviours. Today, its the kids, u rear them, u play them, u go with them. Eventually, they will give you what you want, a winner. Of course, along with a slight sprinkling of some good slightly older players (Kaberle, Kubina, Anthropov, those type of guys)
  14. Jimmy Swanson from Canada writes: Man, the Leafs are going to stink this year. I am glad the G&M thinks to remind us twice daily. The season hasn't started and it sounds like the fans are hoping to miss the playoffs again. I don't think you'll be dissapointed.

    Looking forward to the Mighty Sens pounding TO for yet another season. I'm sad that Darcy, Mats and Bryan won't be there though, because their constant whining and crying provided comic relief when there was no competetion on the ice.

    Good luck TO, you'll need it.

    BTW, I wont have a chnace to check back in online, so save the rebuttals.
  15. Paul Bayer from Parksville, Canada writes: All the more reason not to show The Leaves on CBC national broadcasts. Who's Tavares?
  16. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: As a bit of a rebuttal to Mr. Fletcher..... he is paying Hagman to be a top 6 forward.... and Blake (JFJ leftover) is being paid as a top 6 forward.

    Who knows what Kumelin will bring to the table.... and who knows what another summer of maturity will do for Steen?

    Me thinks Mr. Fletcher is trying to diffuse the fan base in terms of hope... and challenge some players on the current roster to be better.

    Cheers
  17. EJ Ravensbud from Canada writes: I think the Habs also have a good chance at Tavares.
  18. jethro bear from Canada writes: EJ Ravensbud from Canada writes: "I think the Habs also have a good chance at Tavares."

    I have some lovely ocean-front property in Florida that I'm sure a smart guy like you would jump at the chance to buy.

    Daniel Sturgis from Morocco writes: I'd agree that Toronto has the best chance at getting Tavares, except for how brutal the Ottawa Senators D-corps have become....

    Ottawa's D will be much weaker offensively but much stronger defensively. If the team can buy into defence-first, and the top forwards produce consistenyl, I expect a workmanlike unspectacular middle-of-the-road season. No chance of Tavares.
  19. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: EJ Ravensbud;

    You have been identified on another thread (by Swifty) as a troll.

    You have also stated that you hate both the buds and the habs.

    If you want to regain any respect whatsoever on the hockey threads I strongly suggest you stop baiting the habs fans...... they are favoured (after Pittsburgh) to win the east.

    Cheers
  20. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: jethro bear from Canada ..... I too expect a different kind of team in Ottawa.

    Although both defense and goal tending will be a question mark.... I think that Spezza and his experience in the Worlds last year is going to be a different player.

    And you are correct.... Ottawa will finish ahead of Toronto... and I see no chance for Toronto to get a lottery pick either.

    Cheers
  21. EJ Ravensbud from Canada writes: Scot, get real, what are we talking about - life and death, if so talk about the hurricane - that is real. What we have here is pure entertainment for the masses. If you guys and girls want to make hockey into an earth shattering event you may have missed something in your development. I DO believe the Habs are no better than the Leafs.
  22. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: EJ.... you mean the Cat 5 that was then a Cat 4 that ended up being a Cat 2?

    Twas there and watching on CNN.

    Or reading the threads where the Steve Allans of this world wished harm upon the Texans?

    Sorry.... hockey and other sports threads are far more civilized.

    As I suggested to you.... if you want to be taken seriously on hockey threads I suggest you get rid of the troll approach. Your choice.

    Cheers
  23. Spiny Norman from Georgetown, ON, Canada writes: "D B from Canada writes: Blake has 1 40 goal season, most of the other times he was in the 25 goal range. So maybe the 40 goal season (which was his last year before free agency was the aberration, not the 15 goal season). I am tired of the writers making it sound like he was conistent 40 goal scorer. Let him have 3 or 4 seasons of 40 goals, then call him that."

    If it were only the writers! Every sportsface on the tube has to point out his uncanny 40-goal abilities at every opportunity. I don't even remember good ol' Lance calling him out for it, though he may have since I don't watch the dinnertime news every single day. I like Blake fine, he's a solid second or third line winger, most of the time. Being paid Filet prices for Chuck Steak-performance should make him a target for abuse instead of a sacred cow, however.

    Yes, very sorry about the illness, get well soon, love to you and yours, but can the media please just get over you Saint Jason?
  24. EJ Ravensbud from Canada writes: Sure Scot, people did die or did you not follow the whole story. I am only pointing out the obvious - there are no elite players on the Habs. Gainey tried to get Sundin to at least have one, but like Briere, LaCavalier and any other elites they want no part of the Habs. The Hab followers eat them after one bad game and the press demolishes them. Leafs have better goaltending in Toscala and the rest are a wash even after the part time GM demolished the team.
    I posted here because Hab fans are the worst. They wear their sweaters and paint their faces when they think they are going to win and they come to your workstation and spout off and are obnoxious. When they lose, like last spring against the Flyers they disappear. Sweaters and face paint are gone and they avoid you and you wonder if they ever existed. At least Leaf fans show up win or lose and come back time after time. That takes courage.
    It is an honour to be shunned by Hab fans. Thanks Swifty and Scot if you want to join in as a Leafs fan, go ahead enjoy.
  25. Hap Stokes from Canada writes: Scot Loucks from Pickering,

    Cheers
    Better recheck those NHL (unknown) teams again Scot.
    If the Kings can ever find a goalie, with those all those fast LA forwards and top draft picks like (Johnson on D etc), I wouldn't count them out until we see how make out by Christmas anyway.

    And now that the Coyotes have an 'Average' goalie gratis of Burkie, to go with all that super talented young team. They won't be losing too many 5-4 games this year. Plus Turis may win the Calder too.

    As far as our Canucks--No playoffs for them for 2/3 years. Bet they trade Loungo plus one (maybe two) of those great D men.

    Just keep 'One Eye' peeled to the S/W this Fall and see if I am wrong again as usual.

    Go Oilers Go
  26. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: EJ ... as you well know... I am a Leaf fan... and am old enough to remember 3 Stanley Cup wins.

    I liked your comment about Habs fans are fans as long as the habs win.... where Leaf fans are fans... win lose or draw.

    I think the Habs with the additions this year could easily beat out the Pens with their subtractions. Neither of those teams have the best goal tending in the league.

    I don't see anyone but Philadelphia challenging them in the east.... and as I posted days ago.... I used to hate the habs big time..... but with the new NHL I'm not into that school yard shite anymore.

    I dislike Ottawa only because of their troll like fans.... not all of them (take note Claude).... but a larger majority than Habs fans.

    I actually wish the Sens success as well.

    Suggesting that the Leafs are ahead of the Habs in terms of team and talent if pure trolling.

    If you want to be taken seriously on hockey threads.... get over it.

    Cheers
  27. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Hap Stokes;

    Here is hoping you are correct.

    I actually like the Vancouver team this year.... I don't like their GM.

    You have almost as many if's as the Leafs do.

    Will he resign the Sedins after dissing them?
    Will Wellwood actually be interested and play up to his potential?
    Demitra has played under a serious defensive mode while in Minnesota... I say he doesn't do any better under Vancouvers coaching.

    I like Bernier and Kessler.... will they come through?

    I just hate our coach.

    Cheers
  28. EJ Ravensbud from Canada writes: C'mon Scot from an old Leaf fan you should know better. I watched Bower, Shack, Keon, Horton and all the rest in the 60s on the grainy old TV listening to Foster and Ward. I respected that team, didn't cheer for them, but their fans were great. You should know hockey. I do not really care if you do not take me seriously, but tell me which elite player the Habs have and do not mention Koivu or Brisebois. Is Toscala not a better goalie than anyone the Habs have? What Hab forwards are in Ovechkin's or LaCavalier's class. You are an old guy like me so dont pull age rank on me.
    If Hab fans are going to hold a love in on any of these sites I will always give my two cents worth.
  29. S H from Windsor, Canada writes: Cliff is playing head games. I don't think Toronto will be as bad as everyone thinks. The team has solid goaltending and a solid defensive core......as long as everyone can stay healthy! Their weakness is up front but I think watching these young faster kids should be enjoyable. Montreal went from 10th to 1st with a bunch of no names. Who knows? We'll see what happens. If Sundin came back and they got Shanahan, they would be as strong as anyone in the east. Anyone agree?
  30. EJ Ravensbud from Canada writes: S H you must have read my posts. I have basically said the same thing as you and am being shunned by Swifty and Scot. Careful, there are many out there who do like a different point of view.
  31. Dave The Rave from Ottawa, Canada writes: Not sure what Ravensbud is doing ranting about the Habs on a Leaf thread. Maybe he feels he'll get more love here. EJ, if you're that desperate, why not try match.com or e-harmony? Oh yes, about the Leaves...Fletch and Ronnie will do what they can. Hopefully, at least make the team more entertaining than the soap opera that has surrounded them for the past few years. From the looks of it, the rebuilding will need a mininum of two, maybe three seasons.
  32. Mariposa Belle from Leacockland, Canada writes: I suppose EJ is trying to make the point that if you can go from 10th to 1st in one season - a team can do the inverse. I suppose Philly's crash and burn routine before they picked themselves off the floor to qualify and go deep into the dance means that there are few dominant teams in the East.

    Back to the original article. Chainsaw Cliff is holding whatever expectations deluded Leafs fan had to the lowest level. Leaf supporters realize that this team is going to have a tough time. What the true supporters and observers (like myself) are waiting to see is if this collection works as a team and comes to work every night to give it their best. That's all that Chainsaw wants - to build a work ethic that may result in a better team.

    Think Dead Things becoming Red Wings becoming the closest thing to a dynasty since the Oilers in the '80's.

    Much tougher to do these days, but that is driving force behind Temp Chainsaw's moves.
  33. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Ok... EJ I get your point.... I was only suggesting you were in high difference mode with a good and polite poster (Swifty).

    I think Toronto from the goal out .... including their 3rd and 4th lines .... and new pk players... will be near the top of the league (east) next year.

    They have 2 top 6 forwards based on last year. Antropov and Hagman. You have a possiblity in Blake, Poni, Steen and Kumelin... oh and toss Grabovski into the mix as a total unknown who couldn't stick with the Habs.

    I just don't think that stating that the Leafs are ahead of the Habs.... or ahead of the Sens..... is anything but trolling.

    Cheers
  34. Dave The Rave from Ottawa, Canada writes: Scot--how do you figure the Leaves leap from the cellar to the summit in one year? The depth chart does not support that thesis. Even Gretzky (who knows Chainsaw well, and supports Cliff's approach) said it would take several seasons; his patience has made Coyotes better than the Buds, and his charges are still fighting to grab a playoff spot. Are you telling us Toronto will magically overtake ten Eastern teams? Please explain yourself.
  35. Mariposa Belle from Leacockland, Canada writes: Dave - calm down. Scot is suggesting that the goaltending and (possibly) the 3rd and 4th lines are equal or better than Ottawa or Montreal. What is missing is one dominant line or two very good lines to compete.

    It seems to me that Wilson's first year is to instill work in your own end and wait for the few opportunities to strike back.

    It won't be pretty, but it might be more effective than previous years.

    But if they stick to the plan, Scot has a chance of growing his hair back, rather than ripping it out every time his favoured club plays.
  36. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Dave The Rave from Ottawa, Canada writes: Scot--how do you figure the Leaves leap from the cellar to the summit in one year?

    ------

    Whoa DTR.... where the hell did I say that?

    I said 18th to 24th.

    I was giving EJ the highlights on the current Leafs.... He who suggested the Leafs were ahead of the habs.

    I do disagree on several seasons though... If Sundin comes back they make the playoffs this year.

    If not.... they make them next year.

    Cheers
  37. Swifty J from Mtl, Canada writes: Scot wrote: "I just don't think that stating that the Leafs are ahead of the Habs.... or ahead of the Sens..... is anything but trolling."

    I can accept that as honest opinion. It's extremely unlikely that the Leafs will do better than the Habs and/or Sens, but it is possible.

    While I can tolerate contrarian opinions, I won't abide having beliefs and opinions ascribed to me that I don't hold and never stated. In the Lang thread, it seemed to go beyond possible misunderstanding into deliberate misrepresentation/trolling. I don't want to derail this thread any further, so I'll leave it at that.

    Back on topic: I still believe the Leafs will be better than most expect (due to improved coaching and D). The playoffs are not out of the question, especially if Fletcher puts his free cap space to good use. Or Sundin returns, but that looks very unlikely to me.

    But if Fletcher wants to take on cap-driven salary dumps, he'll have a challenge. With about 25 players signed, he needs to unload some bodies. Apart from the cap space, he hasn't positioned himself well to make the most of those sweet salary-dump deals IMO.
  38. EJ Ravensbud from Canada writes: Man, this went into the night! It is only sports, not nuclear war. We all have opinions, lighten up. Have passions about your families, your job, your country. The Habs or Leafs or whatever sports team will never pay you a nickel or care about you.
  39. Dave The Rave from Ottawa, Canada writes: Scot wrote: "I think Toronto from the goal out .... including their 3rd and 4th lines .... and new pk players... will be near the top of the league (east) next year." 'Near the top of the league'? Hence the challenge to this statement. As for EJ, it's clear Ravensbud doesn't like to stand in front of the net, especially when Loucks and Belle are there LOL. Fletcher is correct when he asks for patience. The Leaves were sabotaged for years by MLSE. Fletch is performing emergency surgery. Don't expect the patient to make a miracle recovery. Again, IMHO Loucks is being optimistic about a playoff position this year or the next.
  40. EJ Ravensbud from Canada writes: Good shot Dave. I trust you are not a Sens fan as their outlook looks pretty gloomy this year, but they should finish ahead of the Habs and Leafs.
  41. bilbo baggins from Canada writes: Ej, I agree with you. I think Montreal is over rated. They are not a lock for success by any means.

    Ottawa finished just ahead of the Leafs and they have gutted that team (not as much as needed perhaps) and not sure if they replaced the talent. I dont think they are going to have great success this year.

    The Leafs did what was necessary - cut out the dead wood that was content losing and thought they were bigger than the team. Yes, they will struggle but that is to be expected. I am also pleased they will leave Schenn in the minors to learn and get big ice time. I hope Sundin does everyone a favour (including himself) and retires. The team doesnt need him back as they need to move on and create a new image and atmosphere from the bottom up.
  42. EJ Ravensbud from Canada writes: You know bilbo, I am really tempted to cheer for the Leafs this year. It is something I have not been able to do in over 50 years. I admire their fans and Cliff is trying to set the team on the right path. They will be tremendous underdogs and the players will play for pride and respect. It is much better to be a long suffering Leaf fan than a good time only Hab fan who can dish it out but cannot take any heat. My decision is pending.
  43. Swifty J from Mtl, Canada writes: Dave, it's not unthinkable to have "top" goaltending, D and checking lines but still be low in the standings. All it takes is a popgun offence, and most would agree that the Leafs have one of those.

    "Top" is a stretch in all the goal-prevention areas mentioned, but I do think they should be improved.

    Still not sold on whether Toskala can carry a 60-70 game workload and have no idea how much CuJo has left in the tank, but not platooning with Raycroft has to be an improvement.

    The checking lines do look better on paper.

    The D has serious question marks, and I'm not convinced it's really improved. But this is an area where coaching makes a world of difference, so on that alone I'd stand by the idea that the Leafs will be on the bubble again, but should at least cut down their goals-against significantly.
  44. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Swifty:

    A pop gun offense is probably being overly optimistic....

    But I can assure you that Wilson will have the forwards playing a responsible defense in their own zone.

    That in itself will make the defense better.
    You will also see more blocked shots.

    There will be no Wozniewski out there paired with Hal Gill.

    Hence the suggestion they will be near the top of the east in terms of defense this year.

    Offense? Again ...... who knows what Blake, Tlusty, Kubelin will bring to the table.

    Cheers
  45. EJ Ravensbud from Canada writes: I guess swifty must have been up all night worrying about his Habs as he had to post at 4:00 in the morning. Now Scot is posting about his Leafs. Colts at Vikings in a few minutes, get a life guys. I thought the Globe would have killed this by now but I keep coming back to read the same old, same old.
  46. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: EJ Ravensbud ..... You are pretty good at talking out of both sides of your hat... You a Sens fan?

    You don't seem to like hockey as all you do is criticize fans.... again... that makes you a troll that is to be ignored.

    figures the watch the National Felons League.

    Jays BoSox are on.

    Cheers.
  47. EJ Ravensbud from Canada writes: Scot, great you are interested in something other than hockey, even if it is the Jays. Too bad they are like Tiger Williams used to say "done like dinner".
  48. Swifty J from Mtl, Canada writes: Bad move, EJ. If anyone still doubted whether you're a troll, the way you keep coming back to disparage people who keep coming back is a dead giveaway.
  49. Dave The Rave from Ottawa, Canada writes: Geez, more elbow-flying and body checking here than a Leafs game. Hopefully the budding Buds are reading this thread and getting cranked up for the forthcoming ice follies. Scot, Swifty, I will give you this: Toskala is a top shelf goalie, Wilson's firm hand will get the maximum out of this crew, and the departure of Sundin is a blessing. The real issue is, as we agree, offense, but that never stopped Jacques Lemaire from succeeding. If Ronnie can teach his guys to shut opponents down...who knows? In that respect Loucks is correct. As for those (yes, you, bilbo) who are still calling the Habs 'overrated', since when was going from out of the playoffs to first in the Conference (and 90 points to 104) in one year being 'overrated'? Finally, the spurious notion that Montreal fans are 'fair weather' per the loquacious Ravensbud, what proof doth he proffer? The Canadiens' average attendance has been better than Toronto or Ottawa since 2000-01. Check your facts, dude!
  50. dan vanman from Canada writes: Scot...so...if I read this correctly, you are saying the Buds will make the playoff playing the same style as my 'Nucks last year, and with less skill than they had then?

    Huh? Ummm...no. Thats why the GM and the coach are trying to lowball expectations.

    Before the first puck drops though, hope does spring eternal!
  51. Howard Young from Canada writes: Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: EJ Ravensbud ..... You are pretty good at talking out of both sides of your hat... You a Sens fan?

    Hey Loucks, piss off eh! ;)
  52. ushaped in Toronto from Toronto, Canada writes: The only thing I'm certain about regarding the Leafs this season is that they will not be out-coached.

    Ron Wilson is the first "systems"-oriented coach the team has had since Pat Burns, and that should make a difference.

    How much of a difference I don't know but its that unknown quality that will get me to still watch the games. It still might be a trainwreck, but I suspect that the team will go down making a good effort more often than not.

    I think many Leaf fans would be content to see that as some evidence of "real" improvement. Low scoring games are OK too as long as both teams are doing it.
  53. EJ Ravensbud from Canada writes: Man, this is the third day on this. Not much going on in TO. Dave the Rave - the Hab fans always fill the rink. What I said was that they disappear when they lose. Leaf fans wear their sweaters and fly flags from their cars even if they do not make the playoffs. Hab fans - all the visuals are gone and they also disappear when they lose.
    Sorry swifty I will try not to be mean to you in the future as you are quite sensitive.
  54. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: dan vanman from Canada writes: Scot...so...if I read this correctly, you are saying the Buds will make the playoff playing the same style as my 'Nucks last year, and with less skill than they had then?

    -----------------

    No dan.... I don't expect them to make the playoffs. I do expect them to be much much better defense wise.

    Cheers
  55. Dave The Rave from Canada writes: Senor Ravensbud, thank you for your acknowledgement of the sensitivities of all involved. In that spirit, may I also propose a PC approach to posts going forward. LOL.
  56. EJ Ravensbud from Canada writes: Dave I was just referring to the sensitivities of swifty. I am quite confident everyone else can take the heat (except for many Hab fans).
  57. Swifty J from Mtl, Canada writes: "if I read this correctly, you are saying the Buds will make the playoff playing the same style as my 'Nucks last year, and with less skill than they had then?"

    It might not happen much in the West, but it has happened a few times in recent years in the East. ("It" being "mediocre team squeaks in by riding tight D and solid goaltending.")

    I still wouldn't say the Leafs are going to do it, but they'll have as good a chance as any of a half dozen teams of backing into that last spot.
  58. Dave The Rave from Ottawa, Canada writes: This is a shinny game with only the few diehards left ;-) Ravensbud...our angst-ridden seeker of love, who wanders from thread to thread, his forlorn voice reverberating in cyberspace...Loucks, who clings nobly to the futile hope that Buds will blossom before spring...Swifty, who attempts to make sense of it all...DanVanMan, whose giddy optimism resists all attempts to inject it with brutal reality. And yours truly, who hunts and pecks among the rumor mills in a vain search for wheat among the chaff. Let us not forget the would-be scribes, for they are more scribblers than scribes, of the once mighty Mop N Pail, who now feebly attempt to weave stories out of vapor. Like this one. Let's play hockey, already!
  59. dan vanman from Canada writes: I love it! I am a giddy optimist when I just refuse to parrot the so called "experts" and their opinion of the Canucks.

    So...in no particular order...

    Gillis was taken out of context in that infamous quote about the Sedins. They are going no where. Deal will be done before training camp is done.

    Wellwood will be interesting....lets see if he can last a full year.

    Demitra is coming here for offence...and Vignault only still has his job because he committed to more offence.

    Bernier looks good...very good.

    Ok...sure, we have to have Mats s&$t or get off the pot....but those 6 teams WAY over the cap are easy pickings for a GM with 10 mil to spend.

    So...I think we'll be fine. For the facts Dave...not giddy optimism.

    Peace.

    BTW...I notice people savage my team...but every time I offer to put my money where my mouth is...they all clam up....hmmmm?
  60. Paul I from United States writes: Dan Vanman- Have you forgotten my $100.00 that says Toskala will have better numbers than the Vancouver goalie? Just so I don't have to waste a lot of time reading your macho comments too, the final judge will be the end of the season rankings by Goalie World magazine. The editor, Gilles Moffet, feeds about 100 statistics into a computer program that ranks all NHL goalies. End of story. Your turn tough guy.
  61. Proud Canadian from Canada, Canada writes: Pope Paul I, good to see you back. Hope your team entertains you this season, pre season starts Friday, should be an interesting season. Anyways, all the best with your Leafs, will see in 8 months what the answers were. Cheers.
  62. Paul I from United States writes: Proud Canadian- Scot Loucks was right on about you PC- you are one stand-up guy and a True Canadian. Thanks for your support. I can't wait for the gig to get going. My 9 year old goalie is looking real good in practice so far.He did a goalie camp this summer and it shows.Daddy is proud. Can I count on you to hold the money I'm betting with this clown known as "Dan Vanman"? Besides being a Can-upchuk fan, he thinks I'm a teenage punk living in my mom's basement. Little does he know I'm a 55 year old punk living in my own basement I can't wait until Vesa takes his money.He thinks the greaseball playing out west is going to have a breakout year. OK PC, I think I have tossed enough petrol on the fire for one night. Drive safely. Go Leafs/Go Sens/Go Habs/Go Oilers/Go Flames/Go Canada
  63. dan vanman from Canada writes: Wghatever Paul...you sure act like a teenage punk. Grow up.

    BTW...You still haven't taken the bet...wuss. Talk all this smack...and then you actually have the gall to talk like you made the bet!

    Unbelievable. Act like a man and get treated like one. Act like a troll...and you fget the troll treatment.

    Going to take the bet wuss? Yes/No?

    Man Up!
  64. dan vanman from Canada writes: BTW Paul...watch the namecalling. You have been nothing but an insulting person on these threads lately. I would rather talk to you as an adult...but keep up the name calling and childish behaviour, and I'll treat you as such.

    The bet is $100.00...if you are going to man up.,...I'll email Scot and see if he can be the bank.

    If not...lose the attitude.
  65. dan vanman from Canada writes: Tough guy huh? You are an a$$hj)&e buddy. I didn't ever insult you. I had the temerity to insult the Leafs. Funny how a supposed 55 year old can be so immature.

    Yes...its a bet...but no Goalie Magazine crap. Save percentage...GAA...thats it. Tiebreaker will be shutouts.

    Good enough?
  66. dan vanman from Canada writes: Scot...that OK? You hold the money for this bet? I'd love to take this guy down a peg...so...if you would be so kind...let us know...and I'll email you the particulars.

    Peace.
  67. Dave The Rave from Ottawa, Canada writes: Geez, a lot of action in the crease here...with DanVanMan as Marty Brodeur and His Hockeyness Paul I as Sean Avery? My questions about the Leaves this coming season are, will Ron Wilson be a walking advertisement for Harry Rosen like Maurice was? Will Ronnie wear Windsor knots or a four-in-hand? Will we hear post game quips about 'purse swinging'? Who will provide comedy relief in the tradition of Tie Domi, Tiger Williams and Eddie Shack? And why can't the Gripe N' Wail write about these important matters? And what about the coming expansion to Las Vegas (which will be a relocation), Kitchener (where we get to see Balsillie grovel before the NHL's BOG), Portland (huh?)and/or Winnipeg? Final note to DanVanMan, don't stop trying to get someone to take you up on your bet. Personally, I consider betting on hockey players somewhat like wagering at the greyhound track, where I always put my dough on the rabbit ;-) Good luck to you sir!
  68. dan vanman from Canada writes: DTR...Looks like Paul is on the hook...just have to reel him in!!!

    I can't understand why he wants to make the bet, as Luongo is obviously the better goalie...but thats OK. Its what makes these things great.

    BTW Paul...no hard feelings to you sir. Just talk to me with respect, and you'll get the same back....keep up with the name calling...and I can definitely play that game too.

    But its tiring. So...lets just be adults. Say yes...and I'll send the money to Scot to hold.

    Peace.
  69. Paul I from Rochester NY, United States writes: Dan- We have a deal, with one exception. I am holding out for the Goalie World rankings as the definition. If you are as confident in Roberto as I am in Vesa this should not be an issue. Being an ex-goalie and the father of a goalie, I believe that the whole package a goalie brings to the team counts. Hence my desire to go with the Goalie World rankings. It is a pretty good guess that Mr.Toskala will see a few more shots than Mr.Luongo will see during the season.Goalies World weighs all factors and arrives at a ranking. What say you sir? Are you 100% confident in your netminder? I agree with your idea for a truce. May both our goalies represent us well. Let the games begin.
  70. dan vanman from Canada writes: Paul,

    good...lets be nice!

    But no, I understand where you are coming from, but I feel that some magazine and its supposed "criteria" are suspect when it comes to betting money.

    The three factors in determining a goalie's season have always been wins....goals against average, and , recently, save percentage.

    The winner of two of those three should suffice. However, in light of the fact that the Leafs, and perhaps the Canucks, might suck this year, I was discounting wins. They and shutouts can be the tiebreaker.

    If its good enough for the NHL to determine their best goalie every year, thats good enough for me.

    Let me know if we can straddle this impasse. In the interim, I will try and find a copy of this mag to see if we can work with it.

    But I much perfer the factors I laid out as the determining factor.

    Peace.
  71. Paul I from United States writes: Dan- Take a look at Goaliesworld.com.
  72. Dave The Rave from Ottawa, Canada writes: It may be time for the wisemen of the Globe Hockey Forums to weigh in, i.e. Loucks, Belle and Co. Whose criteria should prevail? While I understand DanVanMan's desire to keep it simple, I am intrigued and impressed by the suggestion made by His Hockeyness Paul I. Goaliesworld gets my vote.
  73. dan vanman from Canada writes: Paul...you know....I was going to hold out for my mitigating factors, but I think I'll give you this one. It seems like a pretty fair list.

    We are talking about the one on the website right? Not any hidden "lists" or anything that will bite me on the tookus? LOL

    So, the bet...Scot said he'd hold it...or...now that we are being adult about things, we can just go as gentlemen.

    I know I am good for it, and you have my word of honour that I would pay up if the end of the season proves me a loser. I hope you are the same.

    Or, Scot is at that "hot"lace, if you want to email him, and he can middle man the email exchange.

    Whatever works.

    I am in.
  74. Allan Martel from Canada writes: It must be tough for Leaf management to "manage fan expectations" while simultaneously gouging on ticket prices, parking and related at-game treats costs.

    Harder still for CBC to continue to justify national broadcasts of a team clearly destined for another season of obscurity but nonetheless a team whose fan base extends across Canada much as WTBS made the Atlanta Braves the most popular team by far in Alaska in the 1970s and 1980s.

    Also tough for Leaf Nation fans to hang all their hopes on Tavares or some other as yet unproven newbie - remember Daigle??

    So, for another few weeks at least, we will have to endure Scot's never ending optimism about improvements in his team along with his cynicism about the changes in Ottawa.

    For me, I look forward to another season of dashed Leaf Nation hopes and I dread another season of dashed Sens fans hopes also.

    I look for much grist for my commentary mill; humour when possible; and for diminishing numbers and influence from the mindless trolls on all sides.

    Finally i look forward to Mats making up his mind.......finally....., and, of course, to Forsberg joining the Sens.

    Cheers
  75. Paul I from Rochester NY, United States writes: Dan- Thank you. We absolutely have a deal. There is no "hidden list" and we can track the rankings weekly (If i'm not mistaken) at the Goalies World website. I believe you are a man of your word, as I am too. There is no need to have anyone hold money. I gather you reside in the GTA? If so, it would be a pleasure to meet you in person and either collect or square up. I'm always up for a trip to the Big Smoke, Golden Horseshoe, or Bobcaygeon if required. Plus we have a couple hundred witnesses to this negotiation.

    P.S. Do the Canucks visit ACC this season? That would be epic. I might even buy you a beer.(Or two). Loucks can help us score some tickets.

    P.S.S. A shout out to Dave The Rave. Thanks.
  76. Daniel Plainview from Canada writes: What's the bet about Toskala vs. Luongo? I want in on that. I'll take Bob of course.

    "This team will make the playoffs and compete for the Stanley Cup."
  77. dan vanman from Canada writes: Paul...I am residing in beautiful BC...out here in Vancity...so we'll have to use the mail or something when its time to settle. I have no problem with no one holding the $$$.

    Good Luck!
  78. Paul I from United States writes: Dan- I get it. I was having trouble figuring out how a Canucks fan could be living in Tarana. Good luck. I'm sure we will be posting regularly over the next eight months.

    Cheers
  79. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Glad to see two of my favourite conversationalists make nice.... I was getting worried.

    Just got back from my third trip to the beautiful city of Ottawa this summer.... first time since public school I had been there in the summer... other that too many politico's... nice city.

    Looks like I will be watching my Leafs from purgatory this winter (Winnipeg) .... with a possible move to Ottawa after that... scary. I may have to finally buy a Leaf jersey.

    Both the Sun and the Star have 4 or 5 Leaf stories today... what's up with that G&M? I have actually sunk to the level of commenting again on politico threads.... help me.... lets have some hockey stories.

    Cheers
  80. Paul I from United States writes: Scot-On the bright side; you can keep us all updated on the Manitoba Moose.Best of luck in The 'Peg ! Get thee to Ottawa ASAP. The drunkest I have ever been in my adult life was at a bar in the Byward Market. I still cannot believe my wife and I made it back to the Chateau Laurier without ending up in the canal. Great city.

    Cheers:)
  81. Mariposa Belle from Leacockland, Canada writes: With the announcement of the possible arrival of Loucks to Bytown, real estate prices have slumped overnight. With the threat of Loucks buying a Leaf sweater, work is being done on the highways coming into the city to put gun emplacements on the entry (check out the new ones to keep Habs fans from crossing the river by the M-C bridge).

    With the fan bases in Ottawa, there should be a triangular cage match held in the Market between Sens, Leafs and Habs fans. Since there are not enough Oil, Flames and nuckleheads - they get to be the audience throwing rotting vegetables from the local farmer's market.

    I'll sell the tickets.
  82. Paul I from United States writes: Mariposa Belle- Put me down for five tickets. I'm bringing the entire family.We will buy our vegetables at the market. How long do you think it will take Loucks to thaw out from winter in Winnipeg?
  83. dan vanman from Canada writes: Mariposa...obviously haven't been at GM Place during a 'Nucks/Flames tilt. Or, worse, at the Saddledome during a visit by the Canucks. ( I've been there once !)

    Saskatchewan football fans got nothing on those guys.

    I thought I'd get beaten up just for wearing my Luongo T-shirt!

    Though...for cage match purposes out East...I'd love to be the veggie thrower....and I'll even bring west coast organic veggies!! LOL

    Peace.
  84. Mariposa Belle from Leacockland, Canada writes: Paul - to borrow a tired phrase -

    Loucks is so cool, he makes Portage and Main in January look hot.

    Useful to know your schedule this winter, certainly the kids hockey tourneys - might have a get together here in Bytown - lock38talbot@hotmail.com
  85. Mariposa Belle from Leacockland, Canada writes: dan, I'm disappointed in you, bringing veggies from the west violates the 100 mile diet fad. Besides, we have great veggies here in the East, and the turnips are particularly hard after a good frost.

Comments are closed

Thanks for your interest in commenting on this article, however we are no longer accepting submissions. If you would like, you may send a letter to the editor.

Report an abusive comment to our editorial staff

close

Alert us about this comment

Please let us know if this reader’s comment breaks the editor's rules and is obscene, abusive, threatening, unlawful, harassing, defamatory, profane or racially offensive by selecting the appropriate option to describe the problem.

Do not use this to complain about comments that don’t break the rules, for example those comments that you disagree with or contain spelling errors or multiple postings.