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Insiders hint at unrest in Liberal ranks

JANE TABER

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 8:14 AM EST 16/09/08

Senior campaign strategists being pushed to the sidelines, sources say, but ‘mutiny' is not in the works ...Read the full article

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  1. True North from Canada writes: Loving the foreshadowing in the picture - that huge heavy weight is going to fall right on top of Dion.
  2. Red Unicorn from Ottawa, Canada writes: Usually liberals wait until AFTER an election before they stab an ineffectual leader in the back. We are only at the end of week one of the campaign and already the backroom boys are muttering darkly about their lad's dismal performance. Hmmm. Dumping the leader in mid-campaign would definitely be a first.
  3. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: So, are we going to have any CPC-supporters/Globe-critics complain about unnamed sources, Deep Throat reporting, etc.? Thought not.
  4. rethink it from Canada writes: I know Dion has problems communicating as many Quebecers do in English, we should be more patient to that effect because he is a smart man and he does speak the truth. Climate and economy issues are right in our face daily its obvious things have to change with leadership in this direction.
    Harper and Bush are not about change. In my mind thats scarier than the poor choice Liberals made at their leadership convention.
  5. bob london from Canada writes: "Liberals" are coherent? Have Souls? Since when?
  6. Ron Eh from Halifax, Canada writes: The Libs shoud start over. Get rid of the green shift. Clean-up. Rebuild. You have 4 years and don't waste them again.
  7. Tor Hill from Canada writes: Insider, Ignatieff supporter from Montreal? I see Mr. Harper likes to call Mr. Dion 'my opponent,' no doubt a borrowing from Bush. Liberals, why don't you go after your real opponent, which is CPC?
  8. Cassandra from Ottawa from Canada writes: DIon has to fight on two fronts-there is some bitterness on the part of his defeated opponents for the leadership, Bob Rae and his followers and Michael Ignatieff and his folowers.

    In the US election too there some people at least in the Democratic party, who are equivical in their support for the leader.

    But if the campaign master mind wanted them to just wave a pamphlet around and not discuss what was in it, I think Dion was right to over ride him.

    Mr Dion's strengths, his integrity and intellegence, have been overshadowed by the most relentless and vicious personal attack ads ever seen in Canada.

    It will take awhile for Canadians to see through that, but i think its coming.
  9. p lailey from vancouver, Canada writes: This is simply insulting to their followers' intelligence. Don't explain the plan, just waive it around and talk about values. The Liberal party shows real contempt for the Canadian voter.

    "Sources say that Mr. Marzolini spoke about the problems with communicating the plan at the recent caucus meeting in Winnipeg. He said, according to the sources, to simply wave it and say that “this is our plan” but not to read from it, as Mr. Dion has done at some events.

    “You wave it. You don't read from it, you don't refer to it,” said the source about what the pollster told the national Liberal caucus. “You wave it and say, ‘This is our plan, we have a plan, we've got the people, we can make a difference. ... I share your values, I share your hopes, your dreams, your aspirations …' ”
  10. P T from Calgary, Canada writes: I guess Dion is similar to Harper. My way or the the highway. At least Harper sometimes listens to his handlers, Dion not.
  11. Light em up from Calgary, Canada writes: It would appear that the rest of the liberal party is going to distance themselves from this clown in order to save some face for the next go around.... as Mr. Dion is getting - beaten like a SMART car at a tractor pull or better yet - beaten like a hippie at a gunshow....
  12. Kevin H from Vancouver, Canada writes: Let the great Liberal party re-build begin.....
  13. Trudeau's Apricot poodle from Canada writes: There are signs, vultures circling, sharks frenzieing and the liberal stars are aligning in a desperate effort to show the voter how good they coulda shooda wooda been. The entrail reader will prognosticate the future on the auspicious eve of Oct. 14.
  14. Mark Galli from writes: Libs will rue the day they forced John Manley out.
  15. Out of Toronto, finally from Montréal, Canada writes: So Dion is not calling on those responsible for the disastrous Martin campaign, he wants to do things differently? Too bad for him, eh. Maybe the spin doctors do not get over this. Once people get over this conservative spin on the supposedly weak leader and start to actually listen they can make their mind up, this way or the other, but give the guy at least a chance instead of pxxping on his shoulder.
  16. active reader from canada, Canada writes: Here we go...the Liberals are starting to make inroads...the populous is awakening to the lack of message from the CONS, that their attacks are both lies and tiresome and that the one man show is a no man show...and sooooooo....??

    now...'UN-NAMED sources"....start talking about how the Liberal inside is fighting....

    how predictable...

    it is truly amazing how much respect i am losing in all the press in canada.....full election articles on the food on the planes, how harpo likes piano (pictures to prove it ad nauseum)...and now the 'ol "un-named sources" crap.

    our national press - globe, star, post, cbc, ctv, global et al -- should be ashamed...they used to be so good and respected.

    now they are just daily entertainment rags from front to back.

    it is a shame.
  17. robert quinn from Japan writes: p lailey. Agreed. You kind of have to admire that level of cynicism. Just wave it, don't read from it, don't refer to it. "Red Book" redux. Nice.
  18. p lailey from vancouver, Canada writes: robert quinn,
    Yes. I immediately thought of the Red Book too and Chretien waiving it around and saying we have a plan! Read the book!
  19. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: Either one of two things going on here. Dion is either a control freak just like Harper...(although by the looks of things an incredibly inept control freak)...or...his party and "dream team" are stepping back and letting him hang out to dry all by himself with no support.

    Come to think of it...its probably both.

    I'd give the guy kudos from soldiering on as this goes down the tubes...but its more likely he is simply oblivious to what is happening.
  20. N. Ontarian from ShangriLa, Canada writes: "unrest in Liberal ranks" - yah, no kidding. Dion is a train wreck, and any Liberal who can't see it happening must live under a rock. And where is the so-called Dream Team? All probably hiding in the bushes, because if they are seen with Dion, they will be associated with the coming disaster, and may never recover in future elections. At least if they let Dion implode all by himself, they might have a chance for a future.
  21. Ed Long from Canada writes: The only question is

    when a political party goes down the drain

    does it rotate clockwise or counter-clockwise?
  22. Jeff Smyth from Canada writes: It's time for the Liberals to retool if they want to be a relevant party in the next election. There is no clear message and their platform, according to their website has only 3 planks (issues). Anything they add now is going to be seen as reactionary and poorly thought out. They are tired and to use a sporting analogy they are playing for next year.

    The one thing that remains to be seen is if they fall to John Turner like numbers. Perhaps a Green/Liberal coalition ala Reform/Tory is in the future.
  23. Grampa Canuck from Stirlilng, ON, Canada writes: The best we can hope for is another minority Harper government and a new Liberal leader.

    Anyway, if we were going to have a recession, it would have happened already. Yup, that's for sure!
  24. Jeff Smyth from Canada writes: Ed Long, It depends if the party is left or right.
  25. Douglas Freestone from Canada writes: I am surprised it took so long for this story to emerge.

    Now, having said that, and making it clear I am not a Liberal supporter, I must say that the G&M's coverage of the campaign to date has been mediocre at best. In fact, I see some parallels between the G&M's coverage and the campaign in general - point out failures and shortcomings, but don't explore the issues that matter to Canadians.
  26. Peter Kells from Bytown, Canada writes: Stephane Dion is a conundrum in that he is an honest thoughtful man in a political environment better described as a den of thieves. As such, he is having a rough go at the moment, however he is a quick learn and has a track record of surprising his opponents.

    The carbon tax is not an easy sell because it is calling for a shift in thinking and most people are afraid of change. The real choice facing the Canadian people is whether we are ready to change our thinking about the environment now or like Mr. Harper wait until 2050 to do so.

    Personally I think that my children and grandchildren deserve that we do something now.
  27. Paul who is from Vancouver, Canada writes: .
    If there's no sense of any kind of mutiny then why are these people saying anything publicly?

    "one veteran MP ..."

    "according to an inside source ..."

    "a well-placed source ..."

    "complaint from senior Liberals ..."

    "One campaign worker said that the national campaign has not supplied any materials to help ..."

    "according to the sources ..."

    "says the well-placed source ..."

    "Mr. Dion and his chief of staff, Johanne Senecal, are calling the shots on the campaign, said the source"

    It sounds like the start of a mutiny to me.
  28. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: Ed Long from Canada writes: "The only question is when a political party goes down the drain does it rotate clockwise or counter-clockwise?"

    Clearly Ed...the answer in the case of the Liberals is counter-clockwise.

    One of Dion's main promises is to turn back the clock and reverse all those laws he engineered the passing of as leader of HMRO.
  29. Let me tell You How It Is from United States writes: Dion needs to get more effing sexy like Arnold Schwarzanegger: stop being such a loser, lose the glasses, pump iron at the gym and get buffed, get a face-lift, dump his ugly wife, get a couple of girlfriends at his bachelor pad, drive a hummer, sell his Prius, talk like Arnold, stop being a loser and clown, make decisions, stop being such a Canadian ditherer and hand-wringer, use his balls....he needs a new PR team
  30. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Why would anyone complain about Mr. Marzollini's advice (refer to the plan but don't read from it)? That is precisely - PRECISELY - what John Baird did when Ontario and Quebec reached an environmental agreement (MOU) a few months back. Mr. Baird appeared on Mike Duffy or the like, waved a binder and a single sheet of paper in the air, while pronouncing that he had a plan whereas Ontario and Quebec had a sheet of paper. Of course, we don't know what was in that binder (if anything) or whether that sheet of paper was his bank statement. Politics is not immune from theatrics. As we have seen on these fora, lots of posters rant and rave about something that they demonstrate that they haven't taken the time to read. And THEY, supposedly, are the political junkies. Where IS John Baird these days, by the way...
  31. André Villeneuve from Chelmsford, Ontario, Canada writes: Well if this well placed liberal would start to work for the party amd his riding perhaps he would know that not all is going badly. I love went these people remain anonymous! Those brave back stabers. He this person does not know the themes of our campaign he should resign his membership and join the right wingers!

    Who needs friend like that!!
    Amother loser.

    Jane Taber: why don't you make a pieice with people that are not afraid to give their names and contribute positively to our political scene? Oh I guess this is not news!!!
  32. p lailey from vancouver, Canada writes: The Liberal party has always been known for its internal discipline. You have to wonder how bad things are if leaks and talks of mutiny are starting to surface with the campaign just over one week old. Maybe Liberal internal polls are even worse than the public ones. Still I'm surprised that we are hearing this talk with 4 weeks still to go and a CPC majority far from guaranteed.
  33. bill johnson from Quebec, Canada writes: Dion's his own editor. A man for all seasons. LOL. No wonder the party is where it is at.

    T -5 months till bankruptcy.
  34. Phillip Huggan from Wpg, writes: The risks and rewards of the future can't be captured in a 30 second attack ad. I'm 27, and even though Dion and Harper are nearly the same age, the Liberal platforms resonate with me. Harper is doing a mini-Republican Party suite of platforms; mortgaging the future. Harper's platofrms are directed to wealthy boomers.
    The world would be a better place with other countries following our lead, rather than us following Republicans. That's what Canada does: punch above our weight. Corporatism is bad in the long-run even for corporations.
  35. Ed Anger from Canada writes: so what your saying is he needs yo be more like Steve Harper.
  36. busboyceo ~ from Toronto, Canada writes: What a FU. The green shift is completely unexplainable on real terms at this point and Dion as a leader is a bust. I really do think he is a fine individual though. So all canucks please hold your noses and vote tory. That is what I am going to do. They have done a pretty good job overall and the regime change has been good for the country. The Libs with all respect need to sort out policy and get a new leader. Iggy had some warts but everyone would have forgiven him re his admitted mistake on Iraq and I think he would have been PM now. He is a leader but then so is Harper. Boring but a leader. Cheers all.
  37. Rich Grover from Vancouver, Canada writes: everyone here is interesting and all, but for goodness sake where did Michael Sharp go?
  38. Woody Forrest from Out in the Sticks, Canada writes: diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: "So, are we going to have any CPC-supporters/Globe-critics complain about unnamed sources, Deep Throat reporting, etc.? Thought not."

    Naaahhhhhhhh....

    The Globe is just doing what they do best - sell newspapers (or on-line advertising). I'm sure it isn't that hard to pull the strings of either side.

    I don't get too bent out of shape by what they write. The bias is pretty obvious and not that hard to factor out. It's making the anti-Dion comment boards go away that concerns me.
  39. Andrew S from Canada writes: I would laugh so hard if the Liberals decide to pull out of the election. Dion, you suck! No one trusts Liberals anymore. Even Dalton doesn't trust the federal team.
  40. Kenneth Yurchuk from Toronto, Canada writes: Michael is out desperately trying to shore up the dikes in BC, as the Orange Tide threatens to engulf the BC Cons.
  41. Rich Grover from Vancouver, Canada writes: the knives are out in the liberal party...who will rise up after Dion is so totally crushed?....Rae? Iggy? Trudeau Jr? That is all that is in dispute at this point
  42. David Gibson from Hamilton, Canada writes: So, the campaign is a week old, and Dion already has lost and needs replacing. One has to wonder if the communications age isn't a bit daft.
  43. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: One can be handled or one can maintain one's authenticity. Obviously, the astute politician has to find the balance. The stylist who tends my locks refers to Preston Manning's having submitted himself to being made over as being "prestonized" and he's critical of what was done. It didn't work for Mr. Manning - indeed, it seemed a bit ridiculous. Does anyone know (yet) whether Mr. Harper's Hallmark Cards makeover is working for him? Some people have a stubborn conviction, perhaps to a fault, that they wish to remain themselves. Handlers see a blank canvas that they wish to "prestonize", and the battle is on...
  44. Tor Hill from Canada writes: Sabotage. Deliberate too, I bet.
  45. Dave Miles from Edmonton, Canada writes: It will be the Liberals party downfall to let the other parties dictate the issues. A true leader would start his campaign with a good offence not another round of defense.
  46. Blue Magic ...... from Mississauga,, Canada writes: Dion's a "control freak".......lmao

    But it is way to early to count the liberals out.
  47. bill johnson from Quebec, Canada writes: DM...what about Professor, Director, Actor Dion with his lumberjack routine? They all do it DM. Latyon's pretending he's responsible, Duceppe that he's relevant.
  48. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Speaking of handling, readers are being handled, but some apparently don't realize it and are thus taking things far too seriously, much too early.
  49. J Kay from Canada writes: Peter Kells: Here's what I don't understand. People are attacking Dion's green shift plan as being "too expensive for Canadians", "it will ruin the economy", "raise prices", blah blah blah.

    Well the Conservatives "Turning the Corner" plan will impose a price on carbon of $65/ton resulting in $25 billion more in revenues for the government and no one says a word. Furthermore they are planning on starting off at $25/ton, whereas the Liberals are proposing a 4 year phase in from $10/ton.

    With the Conservative plan there are no tax credits or cuts, to personal or corporate tax rates so not only will we all pay more, we will have to do so with the current after tax dollars we have whereas Dion's plan will given all Canadians some tax relief.

    Yet people don't understand Dion's plan and think it will ruin the economy. I can only assume they don't even know the plan the Conservatives have proposed and are in the stages of implementing. Research Turning the Corner, it should take one to an environment Canada website.
  50. Older'n Dirt from Belleville, Canada writes: SO...Dion is honest and intelligent. Was he honest doing his push me-pull me routine on all votes? Has he shown any intellect in any way shape or form? Green shaft. tell the people we got the plan. Can't explain what it is but we got a plan. What a steaming pile of BS!
  51. bill johnson from Quebec, Canada writes: diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Speaking of handling, readers are being handled, but some apparently don't realize it and are thus taking things far too seriously, much too early.

    Agreed. However, if Jane's tale proves true, this is clearly bad news for Dion.
  52. gale gardner from Victoria B.C., Canada writes: diane marie from Calgary, you are such a bore - the writing is in the wall regarding Dion, you know it and I certainly know it. Good night!!!
  53. Kenneth Yurchuk from Toronto, Canada writes: Far be it from me to give advice to a Liberal, but if I was running the Lib campaign, I would simply concede everything west of the Manitoba border, and throw absolutely everything I had at Ontario and the Maritimes.

    It is becoming an exercise of damage control for the Libs now, and they'd better get to it if they don't want to see Turneresque or Kim Campbell type numbers resulting from this debacle.
  54. Linda Dial from Calgary, Canada writes: Mr. Dion won the jump ball on the economy today. Harper couldn't even get his hand on the ball and came down flatfooted. He did not inspire confidence. Strange that when Mr. Dion calls the shots for the LPC campaign, he is considered weird, while when Mr. Harper call the shots for the CPC, he is considered a strong leader. Dion is a come from behind guy, he enjoys being underestimated, and if he gets the timing right with his ducks in a row, look out. Harper called the election. That means Harper has to come with platform. So where is the platform, what is the plan? What are the things to be done in the agenda? But no story here so far for the journalists. But, by golly, Mr. Dion has to have a plan, he has no plan? What is the greenshift policy but not a plan? I too would move out a person that counselled campaigners to just wave "the plan" on a piece of paper in front of the voters' faces and not attempt to explain it to them. What a dumb way to campaign! Mr. Dion called this shot well. The greenshift policy is not hard to understand. It basically replaces income tax with pollution tax. Therefore income tax is gone, kaput, done with, dead, extinct, non-existent and pollution tax/refunds are in, being levied, collected and disbursed, the name of the game, what's going on. Mr. Harper harps away at this being a wild idea doomed to throw Canada into a recession. Yet his axe type economic policies will definitely not save Canada from the strong winds of US recession brought on by neocon deregulation and letting the financial industry police itself. What we have seen today on Wall St. is the result of A More Conservative Country politics in the USA for the last 8 years. It is precisely in recession that Other Ways are required since the same old same old is not working. Mr. Harper is not going to be unfazed by the economy for very long and it won't take Canadian voters very long to find out that his ideology precludes him from handling the economy ball well.
  55. Tor Hill from Canada writes: Kenneth Yurchuk: Have you visited www.electionprediction.org? A great site. It shows that 5 of the 14 Sask. ridings are up in the air, with Ralph G. predicted to take Wascana. 5 of 14, an astronomical figure for Sask! I must add that, yes, it is rather early in the election, and I am not sure whether these 'election calls' are based on the polls or on readers' predictions. Must keep trying to remember to check the methodology there. But a very interesting site.
  56. J Law from Canada writes: I think Canadians are remembering a couple of things: One is adscam and the realization by the Canadian people that this party sneaked behind their backs and literally stole our money and tried to put it into Liberal party coffers. That was not only an affront to our trust in a party by also an insult to our dignity. This Liberal party thought the Canadian people were so stupid not to find out about this.

    The second thing is that the Canadian people watched during the last parliament the Liberal party running out time and again when there was work to do. They abdicated their responsibility as an opposition party to the NDP and the BQ. The Canadian people are not that stupid to trust a party that firstly steals from you and then dumps their work on everybody else.

    If people need to vote left wing then don't vote for a party that won't work for you and when given the trust of Canadians they slither behind your backs and steal your money. Vote NDP!
  57. p lailey from vancouver, Canada writes: Kenneth Yurchuk,
    Agreed. The returns west of Manitoba are going to be small. However, I think that Dion will face even more of a revolt if he simply abandons BC and Saskatchewan. He needs to keep up the appearance of fighting in all regions.
  58. bill johnson from Quebec, Canada writes: As Web Editor of the G&M, if people continue to post negative comments about Dion, I will be forced to make this thread disappear....
  59. C.M. Slothouber from Kitchener-Waterloo, Canada writes: "Regulation to reduce greenhouse gases and air pollutants will inevitably come at a cost--and those costs will be borne, at least in part, by individual Canadians and their families." (Source: 'Manageable costs', Conservative government's EcoACTION policy manual, April 26th, 2007.)
  60. Joshua Gardiner from creston, New Zealand writes: no reason to vote for this guy, or for harper.
  61. Tucker Clark from Canada writes: Mutiny? A little late for that. The mutiny should have began when neither of the frontrunners to take over as Liberal leader actually became the leader. The whole joke of Dion becoming the leader of the Liberal party simply came from those that were upset with the way Rae and Ignatief came into the party and basically stole the show (up until the backlash of course). Now we, as in non-Conservatives, are all paying the price for the Liberal party's inability to nominate a real leader. Now we are most likely going to be left with a party that supports industries that generate massive, non-sustainable wealth, while deteriorating our environment at astonishing levels. Amazingly, a vast majority of Canadians have been fooled into believing that the Conservative economic stategy, at dumping all its support into non-renewable resource industries...ahem Alberta...is what is keeping our country afloat. If record levels of "real" job loss in the rest of the country is any indicator, then the Conservative platform is a total sham. This is what we all have to look forward to, and worse if they get a majority, for at least the next four years. As Canadians, should we really be emulating the U.S., and becoming more and more familiar with their way of doing things? Do we really need to forget about such things as real Canadian values? Our country used to be so predictably different than the U.S., that we didn't have to worry about being called a "pseudo-State". The way the Conservatives would like to have our country go is to simply adopt so many American policies, economic and social. Either way, we are doomed. We have one leader who couldn't lead a group of cub scouts, and on the other hand, we have a leader that totally forgets about true Canadian values. Sad.
  62. M. R. from Canada writes: Sorry Jane I'm not buying your 'secret liberal' backstabbers, I think your column is BS

    Now back to getting rid of Mr. Harper . . .
  63. Tucker Clark from Canada writes: Mutiny? A little late for that. The mutiny should have began when neither of the frontrunners to take over as Liberal leader actually became the leader. The whole joke of Dion becoming the leader of the Liberal party simply came from those that were upset with the way Rae and Ignatief came into the party and basically stole the show (up until the backlash of course). Now we, as in non-Conservatives, are all paying the price for the Liberal party's inability to nominate a real leader. Now we are most likely going to be left with a party that supports industries that generate massive, non-sustainable wealth, while deteriorating our environment at astonishing levels. Amazingly, a vast majority of Canadians have been fooled into believing that the Conservative economic stategy, at dumping all its support into non-renewable resource industries...ahem Alberta...is what is keeping our country afloat. If record levels of "real" job loss in the rest of the country is any indicator, then the Conservative platform is a total sham. This is what we all have to look forward to, and worse if they get a majority, for at least the next four years. As Canadians, should we really be emulating the U.S., and becoming more and more familiar with their way of doing things? Do we really need to forget about such things as real Canadian values? Our country used to be so predictably different than the U.S., that we didn't have to worry about being called a "pseudo-State". The way the Conservatives would like to have our country go is to simply adopt so many American policies, economic and social. Either way, we are doomed. We have one leader who couldn't lead a group of cub scouts, and on the other hand, we have a leader that totally forgets about true Canadian values. Sad.
  64. Tucker Clark from Canada writes: Mutiny? A little late for that. The mutiny should have began when neither of the frontrunners to take over as Liberal leader actually became the leader. The whole joke of Dion becoming the leader of the Liberal party simply came from those that were upset with the way Rae and Ignatief came into the party and basically stole the show (up until the backlash of course). Now we, as in non-Conservatives, are all paying the price for the Liberal party's inability to nominate a real leader. Now we are most likely going to be left with a party that supports industries that generate massive, non-sustainable wealth, while deteriorating our environment at astonishing levels. Amazingly, a vast majority of Canadians have been fooled into believing that the Conservative economic stategy, at dumping all its support into non-renewable resource industries...ahem Alberta...is what is keeping our country afloat. If record levels of "real" job loss in the rest of the country is any indicator, then the Conservative platform is a total sham. This is what we all have to look forward to, and worse if they get a majority, for at least the next four years. As Canadians, should we really be emulating the U.S., and becoming more and more familiar with their way of doing things? Do we really need to forget about such things as real Canadian values? Our country used to be so predictably different than the U.S., that we didn't have to worry about being called a "pseudo-State". The way the Conservatives would like to have our country go is to simply adopt so many American policies, economic and social. Either way, we are doomed. We have one leader who couldn't lead a group of cub scouts, and on the other hand, we have a leader that totally forgets about true Canadian values. Sad.
  65. Tucker Clark from Canada writes: Haha...sorry for the triple-post. I have no idea how that happened.
  66. rick from river city from Canada writes: Dion does not listen to seasoned advisors during his first campaign run. The Liberal Party provides no direction or resources to candidates running for office. Liberals (except J Kay tonights designated hitter) can not explain the still changing Green Shaft in sufficient detail to entice voters to make the necessary leap in faith.

    Not a leader running a bankrupt campaign that abandons candidates. Canada knows that this time around Liberals are not worth the risk.
  67. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: bill johnson:-- If you have spent any time observing Mr. Dion and reading his biographies (the ones published at the time of the LPC leadership contest and before), you would realize that Mr. Dion has not changed. Same baggy, ill-fitting suits, same back-pack, same geeky/nerdy demeanour. I saw that wine-coloured V-neck sweater last winter on George Stroumboulopoulos and Politics Today. These are sports Mr. Dion has always indulged in. These clips are in response to the CPC's "notaleader" campaign which portrayed Mr. Dion as physically weak and bookish. The only thing new about Mr. Dion is a new pair of glasses and perhaps a slightly different haircut. Mr. Dion hasn't been "prestonized"; Mr. Harper has been "Hallmarked". Far too few CPC-supporters have delved into Mr. Harper's past. Enquiring Albertans, though, know about it.
  68. Tories Lie Again and Again from Ottawa, Canada writes: You could interchange the Liberal sources with Conservative sources... I know of several well placed Conservatives here in Ottawa who are not supporting Harper because of his autocratic mismanagement of the Country.

    These are guys who work at the Hys level of Government Relations and are positive more conservatives are joining Danny Williams' ABC campaign.
  69. Bobby Dy from Canada writes: Most certainly, Dion should not take the "higher ground" in an election where the CPC lives by the "no holds barred" rule. The Green Shift, on the other hand, is very simple. It's not that Canadians can't understand it (that's hard to believe that anyone is that simple). It's that the CPC have invested a lot in effective propaganda to discredit it through lies.
  70. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: rick from river city:-- Mr. Harper didn't listen to his advisors, or at least he listened only to what he agreed with - we're all guilty of that one on occasion. Mr. Harper is now, apparently, listening to Guy Giorno, hence the Hallmark Cards ads.
  71. seldom uses behooves in a sentence from chilliwack, Canada writes: Achh. Small l liberals already have to pick from NDP, Lib and Green. Plus the BQ throw a language tangent into the mix to further dilute the non-neocon vote. And we KNOW it. Hold fast. It's an army of CPC flacks hammering away at the blogosphere, fanning the flames, whispering "unrest", as usual. Don't fall for it. Thinking Canadians will read the Green Shift and discover it's not scaaaary. Nor for that matter is the GPC plan to deal with carbon. Both calm, intelligent approaches to a problem that won't go away without decisive action.

    Harper's diesel cut is fine, but is weakened by being an isolated item. Green Shift and the GPC plan benefit from the strength of integration and coordination within a broader economic platform. In fact, Green Shift speaks to poverty - that is terrific! Who opposes that? It does not limit itself to "green" issues alone, but properly puts environmental matters into the whirring gears and impossibly complex machinery in which green must exist - the Canadian and global economies.

    Alderman Layton's cap and trade shell game? Be gone, dabbler!
  72. busboyceo ~ from Toronto, Canada writes: Hi J Kay thanks for commenting. I have read the green shift front to back on the lib website and even used the handy cash back calculator which is a joke. It is as clear as mud. This idea as presented is needing some substance. If the country wants to encourage better choices then make it cost. I have been shocked watching libs try to explain the plan over the last few months. Best is google Hedy Fry and green shift. The green shift at this time is confusion and a silly complex incorporation of social fiscal changes rather than just being about the environment. Both are very good but together in this one punch is not happening. We will see what Iggy does as soon as the knives come out when Dion (who I respect) loses this election. Some libs want to lose this election just to get rid of Dion.

    cheers
  73. Bobby Dy from Canada writes: I would have largely agreed (aside from Winnipeg) but, if you look at the CTV daily tracker, you will see that the NDP are starting to sink in BC and the LPC are rising. The CPC are also seeing a decline while the GP is on the incline. Alberta and Saskatchewan, though, forget about it. The resources should be focused primarily on Ontario and, as pointed out by a former LPC strategist, they need to announce policies directly aimed at women. This would be a good time to announce a daycare strategy. Harper's strategy on daycare is nonexistent (tax breaks that created zero spaces).
  74. Bobby Dy from Canada writes: busboyceo, so waht is it that you cannot understand about the calculator. The plan is simple. I certainly don't get that people don't understand this. I don't think that anybody is that stupid.
  75. Older'n Dirt from Belleville, Canada writes: Linda Dial from Calgary, Canada writes: Mr. Dion won the jump ball on the economy today.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    You've been out without your tinfoil hat on haven't you!
  76. Eel Expert from Canada writes: I have a reply to all of the Cons who come into the forum and diss the G&M's credibility.

    One function of a free press in a self-governing society is to serve the public's interest in learning the truth. Unlike individual citizens, the media have the resources to check facts and to separate truth from falsity in a professional and objective manner. The media can be a relatively neutral and detached referee when one side accuses the other of lying, and the capacity of the press to help resolve such factual disputes can serve as a powerful restraint on political lies.

    This is precisely why those who embrace a strategy of political lying make a concerted effort to denigrate the credibility of the press. This is why at the Republican national convention, speaker after speaker vehemently attacked what Fred Thompson described as "the media big shots." If the strategy is to lie, then it is necessary to destroy the standing of the one institution with the power to exact a penalty for lying.
  77. Woody Forrest from Out in the Sticks, Canada writes: J Kay from Canada writes: "Here's what I don't understand. People are attacking Dion's green shift plan as being "too expensive for Canadians", "it will ruin the economy", "raise prices", blah blah blah. ... With the Conservative plan there are no tax credits or cuts, .... whereas Dion's plan will given all Canadians some tax relief. " J Kay, please take a look at the NY Times article on the relative success of various carbon tax schemes. You can find it at: http://tinyurl.com/5rnd2b The most successful one exists in Denmark. It's considerably different from Dion's plan. The Green Shift plays to people such as yourself who know little about industry. My honest opinion is that if Dion ever got in, he would have to seriously modify his Green Shift plan to avoid bankrupting the country. One of the first things to go would be the personal tax cuts. How would you maintain the tax base if the "polluters" drastically cut back on their use of carbon based fuels. The ones that couldn't cut back due to lack of suitable technology would probably leave the country to escape being everyone's else's cash cow. The ones that couldn't leave would raise their prices to try to get their customers to pay their taxes. This would make them less competetive relative to companies outside of Canada, possibly leading them to simply go under. Why not put a bit more emphasis on developing new technology and focusing on helping industry cope with the necessary changes. That's what Denmark did. You can read about it in the article.
  78. Bobby Dy from Canada writes: seldom uses behooves, please explain to me the significance of a 1% reduction in the cost of diesel and please explain to me why you think that such a 0.5 cent/liter cut per year will be passed on to the consumers of diesel rather than eaten up as a nice gift to the retailers from the government.
  79. Misery No one from Angus, Canada writes: I never saw such a mixed up election. No one is talking about important things like the economy and the billions of $'s that are being wasted on the war machine.

    When are these fools going to start talking to the people.

    Will be interesting to see how the debates go. I hope they don't end up squabbling over the cookie jar.
  80. Bobby Dy from Canada writes: Woody Forrest, the change in the price of energy that will be passed on to business is marginal. It will not make business less competitive. What will make this country less competitive, though, is the anti-education, anti-intellectualism that reduces support for the programs necessary to build the knowledge economy. Harper has been doing just that. Harper's plan for the country is that we all become welders, carpenters, and plumbers. It is necessary but not nearly sufficient. The knowledge economy requires investment in basic research to train the personnel (so-called HQP) to staff private high tech and to generate the IP necessary for these companies to build on. Under Harper, we have fallen well below funding just the excellent proposals. Funding for basic research in medicine, which generates the next generation therapies and technologies and creates the IP to develop them, has dropped from 25% to 16% in only two and a half years of this government. The economy will suffer in the long term thanks to Harper's negligence and the fostering of the anti-intellectual sentiment.
  81. busboyceo ~ from Toronto, Canada writes: Hey Bobby I can put in almost any amount of income and it comes up with the same promised amount of taxes back. Plus I am pretty confident that I am only going to pay more taxes under the shift as I am a single income earner. And sorry but the plan is not well explained in detail. As I said, please google Hedy and others trying to explain the initiative and then wonder like I do.

    cheers
  82. p lailey from vancouver, Canada writes: Eel Expert from Canada writes: "I have a reply to all of the Cons who come into the forum and diss the G&M's credibility."

    What about Liberals who attack its credibility?
  83. Trudeau's Apricot poodle from Canada writes: bill johnson from Quebec, Canada writes: As Web Editor of the G&M, if people continue to post negative comments about Dion, I will be forced to make this thread disappear....
    You sir are a fine example of why the liberals are soon to be extinct, democracy is best served by all persons involved, not the entitled. Censor this you fascist.
  84. T N from Canada writes: Tucker, your Conservative/American fear mongering is a mundane argument.
  85. p lailey from vancouver, Canada writes: busboyceo,
    I think you hit the nail on the head. The Liberals should have come up with an environmental plan and tried to sell it. If the wanted to fund social programs, help the poor and cut income taxes then they should have raised the GST 2%. Mixing it all together confuses the message and sends conflicting signals as to what they are trying to accomplish.
  86. CM Chen from Toronto, Canada writes: Mr. Dion certainly had a few rough spots, but why pre-judge him at such an early stage of the campaign? Liberal party elected him democratically, and should support him until election results are in and the next leadership review.

    Who are these backroom Liberal nathsayers? Mr. Dion is already facing multiple fronts, and he does not stabs from his backlines.
  87. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Older 'n Dirt:-- Apparently, you weren't watching CTV this afternoon - I did (stuck in a waiting room, I had little choice). Linda Dial is correct. Mr. Dion received a great deal of coverage and Mr. Harper was shown saying lame things such as that citizens should "stay the course" and that he wasn't "fazed".
  88. rick from river city from Canada writes: diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: rick from river city:-- Mr. Harper didn't listen to his advisors, or at least he listened only to what he agreed with - we're all guilty of that one on occasion.

    Hi DM... no argument on Harper, but he hasnt spent 3 years presenting himself as the big dream team leader who believed in inclusiveness, who had oodles of endless talent to help him ... that has been Dions shtick.
    As a first time candidate for PM a certain level of arrogance is required to believe you know what is best for the campaign, the party, the country and the world. Dion has begun to believe some of his own rhetoric to the detriment of the party. Even Harper knows he can not run a campaign by himself.
    Things are getting so desperate so early that Bobby Dy is on here suggesting its time to drag out old faithful, a national day care program. I am waiting to see how that ties into the Green Shaft masterpiece. Reviving empty promises from 1993 en route to 1984.
    This time around - not worth the risk.
  89. spicydoc of the spring from Canada writes:

    Michael Marzolini is probably the best pollster and strategist in the country.

    Several years ago, he advised the LPC that a graduated GST reduction was a sure-fire winner with voters. The LPC ignored him. MM left the picture for a while, and Martin used David Perle as as him main guy.

    Martin lost.

    Now the LPC have Marzolini back, and what does Dion do? He ignores him.

    Earlier this year, before the GreenShift was launched, Marzolini warned Dion that trying to peddle a complex carbon tax plan during a leadup to an election was dangerous. (Maybe he said idiotic). Dion, being smarter that his advisers and PR peple, went ahead.
    Now he's getting clobbered, with the GS pulling him down.

    The LPC belatedly ask Marzolini "Now what do we do???".

    He tells them to basically ignore the GS (just wave it), and go uber-negative on Harper. After foolishly releasing the GS, it's their only hope.

    If Dion had listened to MM in the first place, he might be better positioned. Why hire the best strategic mind in the country if you ignore him when it matters.
  90. Trudeau's Apricot poodle from Canada writes: b j - Perhaps vichey Quebecois would be more appropriate. Don't get out from under that censors skirt, chicken.
  91. Bobby Dy from Canada writes: busboyceo, well you certainly did not put in "almost any" income because I have used it before and that is not what I found. To verify, I just went back and did it again. The reduction is tied to income. You either made that up or only tried a couple of numbers that were very close to each other. Alberta, city dweller, single income, no dependents, under 65: 30K=$350, 60K=437, 90K=737, 120K=1037
  92. martha stewart from Canada writes: The only question I have about this "unrest" in the LPC is why did reality take so long to set in. Dion is a loser. His election as the LPC leader was a colossal blunder. His record of indecision and abstaining makes Mr. Dithers seem positively bold and decisive. Only a blindly loyal partisan sheep could not see this.

    Now its too late. This will be the worst election result for the LPC since Mulroney's big win. The NDP could well become the official opposition.

    Yes, the split on the left is partly to blame but Dion, a naive greenwashed fool, just made it so much worse.

    Goodbye Dion. Hope the LPC gets their act together in the aftermath of this wipeout. We need a real opposition party for balance and the NDP isn't one.
  93. Marc Denis from Australia writes: I have two words that could fix the Liberal Party issues

    BOB RAE
  94. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: rick from river city:-- Party policies are different - voters are meant to choose.

    spicydoc:-- Not Richard Perle, Prince of PNAC Darkness, but David Herle.
  95. busboyceo ~ from Toronto, Canada writes: Bobby the point is that the calculator is crap and a silly tool on the site that translates into nothing anybody can understand or more importantly rely on to help make a decsion.