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Dion shifts focus to the economy

CAMPBELL CLARK

Globe and Mail Update

Latest comment posted at 4:44 PM EST 16/09/08

Liberal Leader hits hard at Harper's economic record, recalls deficit-cutting records of Chrétien and Martin ...Read the full article

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  1. Johnny Test from Pork Belly, Canada writes: If I was Dion, I would shutup about the economy. He is only making a fooling of himself. If he thinks a new tax will boost the economy then maybe he should go talk to all those unemployed Danish workers in the manufacturing industry. 25% unemployment thanks to the Dane's carbon tax!
  2. His Ice Anvil from Toronto, Canada writes: Elp, I need somebody, Elp, not just anybody, Elp, you know I need someone, elp. When I was younger back in 'universitay', I never needed anybody's elp in any way. But now dese days are gone I'm not so self assured, Now I find I've changed my mind and opened up da doors. Elp me if you can, I'm feeling down And I do appreciate you being 'round. Elp me get my Green Plan off da ground, Won't you please, please Elp me? And now my life has changed in oh so many ways, Liberal voter support just vanished in da haze. But every now and den I feel so insecure, I know dat I would screw you less dan Liberal guys before. Elp me if you can, I'm feeling down And I do appreciate you being 'round. Elp me, get my Green Plan off da ground, Won't you please, please elp me. When I was younger back in 'universitay', I never needed anybody's elp in any way. But now dese days are gone I'm not so self assured, Now I find I've changed my mind and opened up da doors. Elp me if you can, I'm feeling down And I do appreciate you being round. Elp me, get my Green Plan off da ground, Won't you please, please elp me, elp me, elp me, ew.
  3. Johnny Test from Pork Belly, Canada writes: Bob Rae said Dion was a man of great vision...so why does he wear glasses?
  4. Geiseric the Lame from Canada writes: 'painting Mr. Dion and his Green Shift as “risky.&8221;'

    as opposed to Harper and his Turning the Corner Plan, which is 'expensive'.
  5. Brian C from Canada writes:
    Too bad Dion can't find any economists that agree with his assessment of the Canadian economy.
  6. Mike Smith from Toronto, Canada writes: The economy is the key to this election. Look at what Harper has done in the last few years. He's taken a robust economy and destroyed it.

    Look at the manufacturing industry in Ontario. Completely destroyed. His ultra right-winged agenda will continue to destroy this country.
  7. Brian C from Canada writes:
    How is it again that Canadians should trust Dion with our money when the LPC is broke and Dion himself still has his leadership debt from almost 3 years ago?
  8. Johnny Test from Pork Belly, Canada writes: Brian C from Canada writes:
    How is it again that Canadians should trust Dion with our money when the LPC is broke and Dion himself still has his leadership debt from almost 3 years ago?

    Kind of disputes their claim of being prudent money managers doesn't it? Or does that only apply only to other people's money?
  9. C R from Canada writes: But you are not Dion, Johnny Test which is obviously a good thing. Conservatives are the ones who 'belittle' the solutions and concerns surrounding our economy. Dion's english might be hard under the french accent, but it's better than Harper's english which is juvenile. How much does it cost to pay people to work these boards 24/7 anyway? Harper just a short while ago was touting the economy. Now he says it's too fragile for discussion? This government was the clouds blowing our surpluses when people were losing jobs. They didn't care. So they care now there is an election? Yeah sure. Anybody but Harper for the vote.
  10. Jack Schroder from Canada writes: Johnny test get your facts straight,

    from the ny times:
    The one country in which carbon taxes have led to a large decrease in emissions is Denmark, whose per capita carbon dioxide emissions were nearly 15 percent lower in 2005 than in 1990. And Denmark accomplished this while posting a remarkably strong economic record and without relying on nuclear power.
  11. Jack Schroder from Canada writes: Not only that but the institute for self reliance has found that, carbon taxes coupled with income tax cuts and incentives for new green technology stimulate the economy and lead to more jobs as well as much lower emissions.

    Thanks for coming out.

    http://jackedupblog.blogspot.com
  12. June from Western Canada from Canada writes: Funny that Dion's Liberals accuse Harper of 'squandering' the surplus when he did what all Canadians should do now, PAY DOWN THE DEBT. Who squandered billions during many good surplus years and didn't pay down the debt? THE LIBERALS....Where did they 'squander' all the money? ON THEMSELVES.... $50 billion off the debt saves $400 million in interest payments. Chretien didn't seem to care about the environment, your children's futures or what Canada would be like in 20 years...he cared about ruining Brian Malroney and Paul Martin and at that he was successful.
  13. C R from Canada writes: Belittling huh? Oh yeah. I remember Harper's finance minister saying Ontario wasn't a place to invest in. How is it that Harper can say one thing but do the opposite and then act like he's truthful and lecture everyone else?
  14. Johnny Test from Pork Belly, Canada writes: Jack Schroder from Canada writes: Johnny test get your facts straight,

    from the ny times:
    The one country in which carbon taxes have led to a large decrease in emissions is Denmark, whose per capita carbon dioxide emissions were nearly 15 percent lower in 2005 than in 1990. And Denmark accomplished this while posting a remarkably strong economic record and without relying on nuclear power.

    HELLO..knock knock. They have 25% UNEMPLOYMENT in their manufacturing sector. That is a fact! Shutting down plants also reduce emissions.
  15. Billy Bob from Saskatchewan from Canada writes: Actually you don't need to be an economist to know that things are not looking good for Canada. Even in Regina aka the West where things are going strong, housing sales are way down, gas prices are up, people are working but they are not spending money like they were back in April/May this year.
  16. Brian C from Canada writes:
    Dion should shift his focus to his resignation speech.

    Record high Canadian dollar. Record low unemployment. Record high employment. Record low interest rates. Inflation with target range. All during a time of a worldwide economic slowdown.

    And Canadians believe Harper is better to lead the economy than Dion.

    Dion wants to bring our focus here?

    It's time for Dion to take Kyoto for a walk in the snow.
  17. Billy Bob from Saskatchewan from Canada writes: June:

    Happy hour doesn't start for another 4 hours. Maybe you should cut back.

    As screwed up as the Liberals are one thing they did do is balance the books and they didn't have to sell a wireless spectrum band to do it.
  18. Bobby Dy from Canada writes: Johnny Test, please provide a source for your claim on unemployment in Denmark. This is all that I could find in a quick search and it is certainly not consistent with your claims.
    'In March 2007, the lowest rates were registered in Denmark and the Netherlands (both 3.4%) and Ireland (3.9%). Unemployment rates were highest in Poland (11.4%) and Slovakia (10.8%).'
    From:http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10009972.shtml
  19. Johnny Test from Pork Belly, Canada writes: Why the Green Shift will fail..think Norway:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/opinion/25prasad.html?scp=5&sq=denmark&st=nyt
  20. Davis Simpson from Calgary, Canada writes: I would like to hear Harper state more clearly what his plans are for the economy. Simply allowing more foreign investment is not an answer.

    Yes, Dion is scary and Layton is just off-the-wall. But do nothing is not really a plan of action either. The crisis in the U.S. and our faltering economy in the face of globalization shows that there is some role for government, whether its in education and training, or encourage technology, or in enforcing fair trade. Oil and potash will not keep Canada afloat forever, and it won't employ all of us.
  21. Johnny Test from Pork Belly, Canada writes: Bobby Dy from Canada writes: Johnny Test, please provide a source for your claim on unemployment in Denmark.

    http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/editorial/story.html?id=2754232b-e1ee-4fa4-82fa-c7d070674958
  22. p lailey from vancouver, Canada writes: Well at least Rae was bright enough to not criticize Harper on the economy. Talk about zero credibility if he had tried that tack.
  23. Pragmatic Canadian from Canadia, Canada writes: Jack Schroder from Canada ... Unfortunately you're not going to get 'Johnny Test' or any other Con supported to understand the real facts/evidence because their truth is based on what Harpy spews rather than real-world data.

    Fact is, many Economists support the Libs Green Shift plan as the best way to stimulate an economy while pushing for 'green' investment... And none of this has anything to do with Dion's accent.

    Tax the polluters, and cut taxes for non-polluting business and Canadian citizens. I don't see what's so wrong about that equation... Oh, right, Harpy doesn't like it though; he didn't think of it.
  24. Bobby Dy from Canada writes: June from Western Canada, your claim about not making debt payments is baseless. There was significant debt reduction under the previous government. The equation, however, is not as simple as you make it. For example, if we need infrastructure investments to maintain a manufacturing sector or face replacing manufacturing with low end service sector jobs, the impact of making solely debt payments without investing in infrastructure has a long term cost that is greater than the short term savings on interest payments. Balance is needed. What isn't needed is reductions in consumption taxes. If you want to stimulate spending locally, income redistribution is the way to do it.
  25. Pragmatic Canadian from Canadia, Canada writes: 'June from Western Canada from Canada writes: Funny that Dion's Liberals accuse Harper of 'squandering' the surplus when he did what all Canadians should do now, PAY DOWN THE DEBT. '

    That's exactly what the Chretien Liberals did ... Pay down the debt with the surpluses. Where have you been over the last 15 years?
  26. Bobby Dy from Canada writes: Johnny Test, you misrepresented the article. It states that manufacturing employment dropped by 25% in the period between 1996 and ? (doesn't say but implies 2008). What proportion of U.S. and Canadian manufacturing total employment has been lost over that time period? My guess is that it is not a trivial amount as manufacturing has been shifted to countries like China. In any case, the extent of the carbon tax that is being proposed in this election by all parties, including the GP, according to an internal government source, will have no net effect on GDP ($50/tonne=no net effect; $50/tonne=GP policy>LPC at year 4).
  27. Johnny Test from Pork Belly, Canada writes: Pragmatic Canadian from Canadia,
    Fact is, many Economists support the Libs Green Shift plan as the best way to stimulate an economy while pushing for 'green' investment... And none of this has anything to do with Dion's accent.

    Tax the polluters, and cut taxes for non-polluting business and Canadian citizens. I don't see what's so wrong about that equation... Oh, right, Harpy doesn't like it though; he didn't think of it.

    You can't convince us because you can't prove that it works. As far as economists goes it's theoretical. You set a price for carbon then theoretically emissions should drop by so much based on modeling.
    The carbon tax has failed in Norway, succeeded somewhat in Denmark but it cost them one quarter of their manufacturing sector.
    Even then the models don't take into account outside influences. For example Danish manufacturing has shrunk by 25% so where are these goods coming from now? The third world? Countries with dirty factories and poor working conditions? The Danish reductions may not seems as impressive when these factors are taken into account - which they weren't.
  28. Jack Schroder from Canada writes: Johnny test: HELLO Knock Knock!! Taking your facts from a conservative editorial is bound to make you look, well, not so smart.

    Denmark un-employment as of 2006 was 3.5%, not 25%.

    Sure there were some snags in their original carbon tax, but Dion is going to implement his based on the successful models that have shown up since.
  29. Johnny Test from Pork Belly, Canada writes: Bobby Dy from Canada writes: Johnny Test, you misrepresented the article. It states that manufacturing employment dropped by 25% in the period between 1996 and ? (doesn't say but implies 2008). What proportion of U.S. and Canadian manufacturing total employment has been lost over that time period? My guess is that it is not a trivial amount as manufacturing has been shifted to countries like China.

    I didn't write the article but I'm pretty we did not lose 25% of our manufacturing jobs.
  30. Davis Simpson from Calgary, Canada writes: Pragmatic Canadian, a tax on energy usage and not income is not a bad thing. Thats not the problem most Canadians have with it. The problem is that this tax is largely being redirected to new social programs and not tax breaks or even investment into alternative energy technoology.

    A recession is not a good time for a tax hike, which is what it will amount to for most people through higher prices. Throwing people out of work in hopes that green jobs will appear (in how many years?) is not encouraging to hear when you see jobs drying up and your invesment portfolion crashing.
  31. J Kay from Canada writes: June: You are very good at swallowing whole and parroting the party line but you really don't know what you are talking about.

    Here's a little lesson for you. There are three types of debt: gross debt, net debt and accumulated deficit. ONLY ONE party has paid down the gross debt since 1961; the LIBERALS. The interest baring portion of the gross debt, the part we pay interest on has primarily been paid down by the Liberals. The Conservatives have made so far ONLY a $1.8 billion reduction in interest baring debt, whereas the Liberals have paid down $32 billion worth since balancing the budget in 1996.

    And no June the Conservatives have NOT paid down the accumulated deficit by $50 billion. To date, including the fiscal year recently ended but that hasn't yet been officially reported, the Conservatives have paid down about $25 billion. They paid down $13.752 billion in the 2006-07 fiscal year and will report having paid down about $10.4 billion this past fiscal year 2007-08. Hardly $50 billion June.

    Now June as part of the laws governing parliament and budgeting, at the end of every fiscal year the government is REQUIRED to apply any surplus to the debt, so guess what, there is NOTHING special about the Conservatives doing this. The Liberals did it too, every year from 1996 until 2006 when they left office, they applied the surplus at the end of the year, against the accumulated deficit.

    The largest 'debt repayment' was in 2000, when the Liberals paid down $20 billion in one year against the accumulated deficit. And in fact June from 1996 till 2006 the Liberals paid down $81.3 billion dollars of accumulated deficit.

    And June before you respond back telling me I'm wrong, I've read the debt management reports, the financial reports of the government of Canada going back more than 20 years, every year, I read the fiscal and economic monitors, so I'M VERY INFORMED and know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.
  32. Johnny Test from Pork Belly, Canada writes: Jack Schroder from Canada writes: Johnny test: HELLO Knock Knock!! Taking your facts from a conservative editorial is bound to make you look, well, not so smart.

    Denmark un-employment as of 2006 was 3.5%, not 25%.

    I said in the MANUFACTURING sector not overall!
  33. rick from river city from Canada writes: Billy Bob from Saskatchewan from Canada writes: As screwed up as the Liberals are one thing they did do is balance the books and they didn't have to sell a wireless spectrum band to do it.

    no, they just had to ride the backs of provinces and municipalities who now have a huge infrastructure debt as a result.
  34. Jack Schroder from Canada writes: Johnny, If the un-employment rate as a whole goes down... Who cares if certain jobs shrink or dis-appear. They SHIFT towards other jobs. Overall Denmark's un-employment rate has dropped significantly since implementing a carbon tax, and that's good for everyone.
  35. p lailey from vancouver, Canada writes: Dion's connundrum:
    He needs to hang Harper with the current economic woes.
    However, polls show that Canadians have a great deal more trust in Harper than Dion in managing the economy.

    Therefore, the more that he convince Canadians that the economy is in bad shape the more votes he pushes to the CPC. He's in a tough spot and the carbon tax proposal makes it even tougher.
  36. Johnny Test from Pork Belly, Canada writes: Jack Schroder from Canada writes: Johnny, If the un-employment rate as a whole goes down... Who cares if certain jobs shrink or dis-appear. They SHIFT towards other jobs. Overall Denmark's un-employment rate has dropped significantly since implementing a carbon tax, and that's good for everyone.

    LOL You sound like Harper! Tell that to Dion when he comes to Ontario complaining about all those lost manufacturing jobs! I'll bet you McGuinty already knows about Denmark's woes and won't support Dion for fear the same thing may happen here.
  37. Davis Simpson from Calgary, Canada writes: Jack Schroder, you are assuming that jobs are lost and gained in the same number and at the same rate.

    I gaurantee that is not the case.

    So you raise the price of energy, driving more Canadian manufacturers out of the country, to cheaper jurisdiction. All those workers do what now in the green industry? What jobs do they shift to?

    Oh, refitting Canadian homes to be more energy efficient? Ok, that will take years of retraining as carpenters. And you think Canadians will now give up all their consumer goods to refit their homes? Of course not.

    You throw that word shift around like its a seamless, painless process. It is jarring and painful. And with countries like China charging full steam ahead, we are basically just shifting industry to them. Reducing carbon emmisions has to be an international undertaking and all countries have to be on-board.

    The best thing Canada can do is pour more money into R&D, to provide all countries with affordable alternative energy, rather than just ship everything over to China so we feel better about our emissions, while even more are produced.
  38. Jack Schroder from Canada writes: Here's the thing, Dion will find those who lost their job in manufacturing industries new 'green jobs'. Harper just leaves them to rot, while saying that Ontario is that last place any new business should invest.
  39. John Hinkley from Canada writes: QUOTE FROM ARTICLE: 'With a U.S. financial crisis walloping stock markets and recession fears rising sharply, Mr. Dion is hitting hard at Stephen Harper's economic record, and invoking the Liberal brand to argued that the deficit-cutting records of Jean Chrétien and Paul Martin show that his party knows better.'

    Looks like Dion is jumping on Jack's band wagon.

    Now they're both blaming a 'made in the USA' sub-prime problem on Stephen Harper.

    How stupid do they think Canadian voters are?

    We should also ignore the fact that Jean and Paul balanced their budgets by downloading problem areas to the provinces.

    Stupid is as stupid does!
  40. Armins copy of Swank from Canada writes: This guy has a 6 figure income (and has had one for years) he can't pay his own bills and owes hundreds of thousands of dollars from his leadership campaign. Yeah, we need a lecture from this deadbeat on the economy.
  41. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: Dion says...'I am the party of Chretien and Martin!!!' ...oh...except for that ADSCAM thingy...'I am the leader who is best able to manage Canada's economy during tough times.'...er...pay no attention to my inability to manage my own massive personal debt, nor the pitiful state of finances my Liberal party is in....'Soon we will return to a prosperous government'...and we all know what dat mean...a return to a prosperous Liberal party!
  42. Johnny Test from Pork Belly, Canada writes: Jack Schroder from Canada writes: Johnny, If the un-employment rate as a whole goes down... Who cares if certain jobs shrink or dis-appear. They SHIFT towards other jobs. Overall Denmark's un-employment rate has dropped significantly since implementing a carbon tax, and that's good for everyone.

    PS Just for the record, I support a PROPERLY designed carbon tax coupled with carbon rationing. Instead of reducing income tax, mail out rebate checks each year refunding each Canadian's free carbon allotment. Every Canadian would get the same amount refunded annually. The tax would increase each year and the allotments would decrease. Rich people would pay more carbon tax because they pollute more. I do NOT support using a carbon tax to milk the population for money for other things. Stick to the environment.
  43. Catherine Wilkie from Canada writes: Davis Simpson: People do shift their behaviours. Hence, car lots full of unsold trucks and SUV's.
    Retrofitting houses is a great idea. Our reliance on a depleting resource must be curtailed where it can be and reduced where we need it.
    People get it. Their wallets remind them that gas prices, heating oil prices are rising quickly. Under Harper's watch.
  44. Johnny Test from Pork Belly, Canada writes: Jack Schroder from Canada writes: Here's the thing, Dion will find those who lost their job in manufacturing industries new 'green jobs'.

    Uh huh. I suppose he is going to send them to University for free to get a degree..miracle of miracles
  45. His Ice Anvil from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Dear Liberals, won't you come out to play?
    Dear Liberals, greet the brand new day
    The Sun is up, the sky is blue
    The polls are out and you're so screwed
    Dear Liberals, won't you come out to play?

    Dear Liberals, open up your eyes
    Dear Liberals, we know about your lies
    The wind is low, Dion will sing
    'Dat he is part of everyting'
    Dear Liberals, won't you open up your eyes?

    Look around round
    Look around round round
    Look around

    Dear Liberals, let me see you smile
    Dear Liberals, like a little child
    The Left will be your only fan
    To lend support to 'da Green Shaft Plan'
    Dear Liberals, won't you let me see you smile?

    Dear Liberals, won't you come out to play?
    Dear Liberals, greet the brand new day
    The Sun is up, the sky is blue
    The polls are out and you're so screwed
    Dear Liberals, won't you come out to play?
  46. Ed Long from Canada writes: It will certainly help the economy to hit industry with $15.38 Billion in taxes.

    Frankly, I'm personally happy with things.

    Stocks took a hit, but I've made quite a bit over the last few years.

    Real estate is down but it was overdue.

    The stuff is still in the ground and will be valuable.

    The country is finally able to define innovation and will start moving.

    Economy is not a weak point for Harper.

    Dion is missing the point that Harper is running a Stephen Harper campaign.

    Attack him, his lack of credibility, his weaseling on his own law, make him so uncomfortable that he leans on high profile colleagues and then attack them.

    Geeez ..... debating policy, given a two year minority government.

    Just too dumb for words.
  47. His Ice Anvil from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Imagine there's no Liberals
    It's easy if you try
    No socialists in Parliament
    Above us only sky
    Imagine all the people
    Living for today...

    Imagine there's no Liberals
    It isn't hard to do
    No one to steal your money
    And raise your taxes too
    Imagine all the people
    Living life in peace...

    You may say I'm a dreamer
    But I'm not the only one
    I hope some day you'll join us
    And the world is free of Liberal scum

    Imagine no possessions
    I wonder if you can
    'Cause it would soon be happening
    Under 'da Green Shaft Plan'
    Imagine all the people
    Living in the street...

    You may say I'm a dreamer
    But I'm not the only one
    I hope some day you'll join us
    And the world is free of Liberal scum
  48. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: Catherine Wilkie from Canada writes: 'Their wallets remind them that gas prices, heating oil prices are rising quickly. Under Harper's watch.' And Dion is trying to get elected on a platform boasting even higher prices under a Dion government...good luck with that.
  49. His Ice Anvil from Toronto, Canada writes:

    I'm a loser
    I'm a loser
    And I'm not what I appear to be

    Of all da votes I have won or have lost
    der is one plan that I should just have tossed
    It was a plan in a million, my friend
    I should have known I'd feel 'green' in da end

    I'm a loser
    And I lost someting dat’s dear to me
    I'm a loser
    And I'm not what I appear to be

    Although I look and I talk like a clown
    Beneath dis mask I am wearing a frown
    My tears are falling like rain from da sky
    Is it for 'Jean' or myself dat I cry

    I'm a loser
    And I lost someting dat's dear to me
    I'm a loser
    And I'm not what I appear to be

    What have I done to deserve such a fate
    I realize I leaned left far too late
    And so it's true, pride comes before a fall
    I'm telling you so dat you won't lose all

    I'm a loser
    And I lost someting dat's dear to me
    I'm a loser
    And I'm not what I appear to be
  50. His Ice Anvil from Toronto, Canada writes:

    This happened once before,
    When I came to your door,
    No reply.
    They said that you vote 'Blue',
    But I saw you peep trou your window,
    I saw da light, I saw da light,
    I know dat you saw me,
    'cause I looked up to see your face.

    I tried to telephone,
    They said dat you're not home,
    Dat's a lie,
    'cause I know where you've been,
    I saw you walk in your door,
    I nearly died, I nearly died,
    'cause you walked hand in hand
    Wit another 'Stephen' in my place.

    If I were you I'd realize dat I
    Would screw you less den any Liberal guy,
    And I'd forgive da lies dat I
    Told before when you gave me no reply.

    I've tried to telephone,
    They said dat you're not home,
    Dat's a lie,
    'cause I know where you've been,
    I saw you walk in your door,
    I nearly died, I nearly died,
    'cause you walked hand in hand
    Wit another 'Stephen' in my place.

    No reply.
    No reply.
  51. His Ice Anvil from Toronto, Canada writes: Elp, I need somebody, Elp, not just anybody, Elp, you know I need someone, elp. When I was younger back in 'universitay', I never needed anybody's elp in any way. But now dese days are gone I'm not so self assured, Now I find I've changed my mind and opened up da doors. Elp me if you can, I'm feeling down And I do appreciate you being 'round. Elp me get my Green Plan off da ground, Won't you please, please Elp me? And now my life has changed in oh so many ways, Liberal voter support just vanished in da haze. But every now and den I feel so insecure, I know dat I would screw you less dan Liberal guys before. Elp me if you can, I'm feeling down And I do appreciate you being 'round. Elp me, get my Green Plan off da ground, Won't you please, please elp me. When I was younger back in 'universitay', I never needed anybody's elp in any way. But now dese days are gone I'm not so self assured, Now I find I've changed my mind and opened up da doors. Elp me if you can, I'm feeling down And I do appreciate you being round. Elp me, get my Green Plan off da ground, Won't you please, please elp me, elp me, elp me, ew.
  52. Davis Simpson from Calgary, Canada writes: Jack Schroder, I agree that I find Harper's lack of a plan a little disheartening. I think the free market is great but there is a role for government to play. I think Layton would make an awful Prime Minister but I think he is on track with things like improved funding for worker retraining and incentive for companies to provide more training. I'm pretty conservative and I hate it that the only policies so far that I like are coming from Layton.
  53. Jack Schroder from Canada writes: Hey Johnny, do you thinkn those wind turbines build themselves then? Or the wiring in the dams isn't the same as the machines in a manufacturing plant? They have the education, we just need to make the changes.
  54. Armins copy of Swank from Canada writes: Catherine Wilkie from Canada writes: People get it. Their wallets remind them that gas prices, heating oil prices are rising quickly. Under Harper's watch.

    _______________
    And Dion wants to make those prices go even higher with his carbon tax on everything with no benefit for the environment.
  55. R.U. KIDDN ME?!! from Canada writes: Mike Smith from Toronto, Canada writes: The economy is the key to this election. Look at what Harper has done in the last few years. He's taken a robust economy and destroyed it.

    Look at the manufacturing industry in Ontario. Completely destroyed. His ultra right-winged agenda will continue to destroy this country.
    --------------------------
    give your head a shake mike...
    ....the manufacturing industry (read CAW) has destroyed ITSELF with its shortsightedness and greed... they are so far behind, they think theyre in first place...
    ....the European and Japanese market has been meeting consumer needs for decades already... 65% of the EU have been driving clean burning diesel and gas vehicles that go 200 kph and get 50 mpg for ten years already...
    they knew YEARS ago that the price per barrel of oil was going to go up and adjusted accordingly... WE are still forced to drive Ford Escapes that get 17 mpg on the highway (i know, i got one)

    ... its also a fact that the price of oil was driven up by speculators only... and that the problems the US is having is based on greedy bankers etc... (and somehow thats all Harpers fault?)
    ... how these things have anything to do an 'ultra rightwing' conservative gov. is beyond me!?!

    and what do YOU expect?? ...a government handout (paid by you and me) to make it all go away...

    quit blaming all your problems on the Feds... you dont want government to butt into you life but you want them to come change your 'pamper' when your greedy industry soils on you... gofigger.
  56. Johnny Test from Pork Belly, Canada writes: Jack Schroder from Canada writes: Hey Johnny, do you thinkn those wind turbines build themselves then? Or the wiring in the dams isn't the same as the machines in a manufacturing plant? They have the education, we just need to make the changes.

    Don't agree ..but I like your optimism!
  57. raul castillo from Winnipeg, Canada writes: DION: WE ARE THE PARTY THAT GAVE YOU SURPLUSES, BUT FALL SHORT TO SAY: WE ARE THE PARTY THAT HELPED DISAPPEAR HUNDRED OF HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS AND THAT IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH THE GREEN SHIFT ROBBERY. THEY WILL CREATE GREEN, GREEN MONEY FOR THEM, OF COURSE.
  58. Johnny Test from Pork Belly, Canada writes: You (Johnny Test, from Pork Belly, Canada) wrote: Jack Schroder from Canada writes: Hey Johnny, do you thinkn those wind turbines build themselves then? Or the wiring in the dams isn't the same as the machines in a manufacturing plant? They have the education, we just need to make the changes.

    BTW buying the Liberal Green Shift Plan is like buying a Japanese car. You get a lot of options you don't necessarily need or want.
  59. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: Wonder why Dion had Bob Rae as a backdrop for his economic statement today? Hmmmm...Bob Rae...Minister of Finance in a Dion government...now that's scary.
  60. Davis Simpson from Calgary, Canada writes: Catherine Wilkie, I agree that people shift their consumption due to market forces. It can be slow sometimes - they are not going to rush out to buy a new car because of high gas prices but it will affect their next purchase.

    However, thats not the point when it comes to jobs. I know a tax on energy will reduce consumption. However, will that Canadian company who sees their profits drop invest in much more expensive alternative energy? What if it is simply cheaper to outsource to China, which has no tax on energy but instead subsidizes it? Those now laid off Canadian workers will work where? And has carbon emissions actually decreased?

    This shift is small, so it wouldn't be honestly a big deal. But its a bad direction and a bad policy. No, the only good carbon tax is focused 100% on consumers. And it can't simply be to jack the price of carbon-based fuels. The money has to be put into developing alternative energy sources, not national daycares.

    What we have here is a strange mish-mash of policy, none of which is effective.
  61. Lection Fever from coast to coast in, Canada writes: Johnny Test ' Dion will find those who lost their job in manufacturing industries new 'green jobs'.

    Uh huh. I suppose he is going to send them to University for free to get a degree..miracle of miracles'

    It seems the liberal's favorite is haricutting school at community college.
    It's why every town in Northern NB has ten hairdressers and no computer programmers. Liberal 'vision'
  62. Jack Schroder from Canada writes: You may not want or need all the options, but that car will serve you well for a long, long time without breaking down.
  63. Jack Schroder from Canada writes: Davis Simpson, Dion is going to re-invest revenue from the carbon tax in green technologies. And what do you mean a good carbon tax has to focus 100% on consumers?
  64. R.U. KIDDN ME?!! from Canada writes: Pragmatic Canadian from Canadia, Canada writes:
    Tax the polluters, and cut taxes for non-polluting business and Canadian citizens. I don't see what's so wrong about that equation... Oh, right, Harpy doesn't like it though; he didn't think of it.
    ---------------------
    Lets see... let me get this right.... (the green shaft)

    tax the crap out the industries that provide the governments largest tax base...

    give the money to the consumer/taxpayer (you and me) to spend on what we want...

    the industries now raise their prices to make up for the extra taxes they have to pay....

    and the consumer/taxpayer gets pissed and TRYS to stop purchasing the fuel they need to deliver goods across our country... or the fuel we need to get to work.... or the gas and oil we need to heat our homes... (and in the end, have to pay MORE anyway because we cant do without)....

    AND THIS IS SUPPOSED TO HELP US BE GREENER???!

    Oh... i get it now.... if we dont use (or cant afford) fuel to deliver our goods, drive our vehicles or heat our homes... i guess the NET effect WOULD be less emissions...

    SHEESH, i scared myself there for a moment... i couldnt quite understand what Dion was trying to sell us... i guess that make me about as smart as Stephane.... may 'I' should run for the Liberal party....
    ... i not only SPEAK the language, i UNDERSTAND it too....

    gofigger.
  65. Jack Schroder from Canada writes: R U KIDDING ME?!!:

    Are you kidding me? You obviously are one of the (uneducated/biased) people who like to bash the green shift without reading it.
  66. rick from river city from Canada writes: 'Our economy has hit a brick wall' says Dion. Given his focus is limited to Retronto he may be right but it certainly does not reflect the overall Canadian economy of which he knows and cares about so little. With each day Dion sounds more and more like the 'sky is falling' twins, May'fair' and Jack. By the time we get to the debate they will be like three magpies chattering away in unison on a telephone wire on the left side of the road. Dion has hit a brick wall.
  67. Ken Walter from Canada writes: So typical of the pork belly cons when they dont have an arguement based in fact they resort to name calling Just like Sweter Stevie
  68. rick from river city from Canada writes: “I do nothing with that. And I never did. When I did the Clarity Act, I had a lot of anonymous sources against me. When I saved the Kyoto protocol I had a lot of anonymous sources against me – a lot,” he (Dion) said.

    HE 'did' the Clarity Act. HE 'saved the Kyoto protcol'. Now he's moving on to 'save the planet'. No wonder he has no time to pay attention to his role as lowly leader of a Canadian opposition party and just another candidate for PM. We need to realize we have a 'saviour' amongst us here folks. Despite advice from his Dream Team and 'a lot of anonymous sources against me - a lot', Dion, and Dion only knows what is best for all of us, like the entire universe. Enough of this convoluted fool.
  69. Jack Schroder from Canada writes: Rick From River City:

    Just because Dion actually cares about Toronto/Ontario (unlike Harper), doesn't mean that's all he cares about. And is it ok that Steve cares about no one but Alberta?

    http://jackedupblog.blogspot.com
  70. r b from Calgary, Canada writes: Ironic how Kenny Walter complains about 'name calling' - at the same time he uses the terms 'pork belly cons' and 'Sweter(sp) Stevie' in his post

    Too funny, and even funnier is that Kenny probably doesn't even understand what 'irony' means.
  71. Davis Simpson from Calgary, Canada writes: Jack, I mean that you can not raise taxes (or raise the costs) on companies that export, or it will be cheaper for them to move. You cannot raise costs for companies that face competition from foreign companies that import into Canada, or we will be unfairly penalizing Canadian industry. If you raise costs for the oil sands industry so it is not economic for them to continue investment, then they will stop. If you raise prices for manufacturers who export goods into the U.S., then they will move their operations south or just outsource more of it to China. However, if you focus your tax directly on the consumers, for example a gas tax (which we do) or a tax on gas-powered vehicle sales, then you will have a drop in consumption that affects companies no matter where they produce. This is obviously trickier, though. It would require companies to report the carbon emissions per unit of production and then levy a corresponding tax on it for sale to Canadian consumers. And then companies will lie about it, especially if they produce abroad. So I'm thinking a carbon tax might not be the way to go, instead provide more funding and subsidies to investment and conservation for Canadian companies. New technologies could then be exported to China, and really reduce emissions and create jobs. That still means higher taxes, and government interjecting itself into the economy, which is always dangerous, but it would be less distruptive. But just spitballing here. I'm not a policy expert.
  72. Steven Koning from Bloomfield, ON, Canada writes: People who call Dion intelligent don't know the first thing about intelligence. There are many different kinds of intelligence. The only kind Dion possesses is a literary intelligence, which plays well in academia, but won't buy him a coffee on the street. Dion has no communications intelligence, he has no social intelligence, no empathetic intelligence, no street smarts, no hunters' intelligence, no fighters' intelligence, no physical intelligence and worst of all, he does not listen to others so he can follow their advice. He also does not have the intelligence to say to his staff: 'There are decisions I make alone, there are those we make together, and there are those you make.' It's called leader's intelligence. Imagine Dion the control freak at the helm of Canada. We would be like Cuba in no time flat. As they say in common parlance: ' Dion is dumber than a bag of hammers.' How can anyone give credence to Dion on economic matters when dion has not even paid off his leadership campaign debt, and hasn't even filed for permission to postpone the latest payment of $230,000.00 Imagine what this economic ignoramus would do to Canada's economy. It's even scarier than Liberal brown bags...
  73. rick from river city from Canada writes: Jack Schroder - a lot more than Alberta elected Harper. A lot less than Ontario elected Dion. Dion cares about Retronto because, at this point, it's all he's got to salvage his dream to save the planet.
  74. r b from Calgary, Canada writes: Dion's involvement in 'saving' Kyoto should be a warning bell for everyone.

    Dion and Chretien specificaly promised that Alberta could sit as an observer on negotiations.

    And then they not only reneged on that promise, they signed Canada to a deal that if implemented would result in the immediate destruction of Alberta's oil production based economy.

    Dion is an opportunist: he was a compromise choice for Liberal leader when the 2 frontrunners could not reach an accomodation, and he was an opportunist when Chretien tapped him as Unity Minister in the wake of Chretien's disasterous near-miss referendum fiasco.

    As for the Clarity Act - at the time of the last referendum Liberals openly ridiculed Harper in calling for clear rules on future referendums. Then poof-shazzam, here comes a Clarity Act.

    This is all old-hat for Liberals: remember Trudeau's take on price controls: 'Zap - you're frozen'?

    Oft repeated to gales of laughter from the adoring Ontario media. Followed by his infamous 'Six and Five' wage and price controls.

    Oh yes, hypocrisy is practiced by all parties, but the Liberals have perfected it.
  75. J Kay from Canada writes: David Simpson: Those same companies will be receiving a corporate tax cut. They will also be able to use an accelerated capital cost allowance deduction for investments in green technology and a beefed up and partially refundable SR&ED tax credit for green technology development. This will help alleviate some of the costs associated with rising carbon taxes. It will encourage a shift to cleaner technology.

    Tell me David, Mr. Harper is proposing a shift to carbon taxes of $25/ton starting by 2010 and increasing to $65/ton. There are no offsetting tax cuts for either individuals or corporations. No tax credits either. So how is Mr. Dion's proposal going to hurt Canadian businesses, while Mr. Harper's wont, or are you unaware of Mr. Harper's plan?.

    I have yet to hear one person actually explain this. Instead everyone simply ignores the question and keeps complaining about Dion's plan. At least with his you get an income tax cut, thus it isn't simply new taxes, it is simply a tax shift.
  76. J Kay from Canada writes: Steve Koening: Thank you. Your comment, with it's fallacious analogies shows you don't possess ANY KIND of intelligence. So don't disparage someone who clearly is smarter than you when you can't even make a coherent logical argument. It just makes you look, well stupid and really silly.
  77. Olivia Brownbeck from Canada writes: Layton is on the right track in terms of this discussion. First he is not simply trying to blame Harper for what is an international banking crisis. Clearly Harper's actions did not cause Lehman Bros to collapse or the credit crunch which led to it.

    That being said, Harper's penchant to rid the government of any and all surplus and his ideological insistence that the federal government should be limited in its ability to raise revenues to be able to cushion these kinds of shocks is problematic to say the least.

    Harper and Flaherty are running around touting their fiscal management but I am worried about what numbers they may be hiding. Layton is also on that, I am pleased to see. This was a piece that aired on Global TV about the potential hidden costs of the war in Afghanistan:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWtIcEw6tyg
  78. Davis Simpson from Calgary, Canada writes: J Kay, with the $6 billion being invested in new social spending and personal income tax cuts, business are not having their taxes shifted but raised. Its all in the numbers. Now, the new social spending and personal income taxes assumes that business will pass on the costs. However, thats not a certainity. They could simply move production.

    And for exporters or Canadian companies facing competition for importers, they can't pass on the costs. However, if they outsource everything to China, no higher costs! Bingo! Even if for that particular company, the tax breaks equal the higher costs, they can now save a bundle by outsourcing to China and make even more money.
  79. Don Adams, the Conservative Centrist from Canada writes: Dion, the academic, doesn't know dick all about economics! :-) Anyone who things an additional tax on folks, especially given the state of the world economy, really needs his head read by a competent phsychiatrist (if there IS any such thing! ) :-)
  80. Davis Simpson from Calgary, Canada writes: J Kay, as to Harper's plan - I'm non-partisan. It is rather thin. The idea is to slowly push, giving a chance for low investments in conservation and altnerative energy a chance to kick in.

    Now, this is economically safer. It allows provinces and companies to get the return on their current investment in production equipment, rather than force them to throw it away an invest in immature technologies.

    However, I wish government would do more to encourage the development of these new technologies. Not that we're doing nothing now, by a long shot. But with several billion people clamoring for more energy by the day, I think its rather urgent and I would like to make sure we are doing all we can to meet the challenge of providing enough energy, much less clean energy.

    I fully acknowledge that I am no expert, by the way. However, if the Liberals want to convince me that they have THE plan, then they need to do a much better job. I give them kudos for having A plan. But a bad plan can be worse than a thin plan, as much as I hate both.
  81. Greg Out West from Canada writes: Dion shifts focus ? I never realized he was focused in the first place.
  82. LJ PG from Canada writes: People really need to get their fact straight before spout off random numbers. Danish unemployment rates has never been at 25%. Denmark is currently in a recession and still has the one of the lowest unemployment rates in the Eurozone 3.5%

    It blows my mind that Harper might win a Majority government. Do we really want to be more like the Americans. Look at what is happening down south right now. The worst is still to come.
  83. J Kay from Canada writes: David Simpson: What part of this do you NOT understand. THERE IS NO NEW SOCIAL SPENDING. Repeat it until you understand it.

    There are tax cuts for individuals and for business. There are direct tax cuts to the personal income tax rates and increased tax CREDITS, for individuals. That is NOT social spending. It's still tax cuts, it is simply a shaping of tax policy, to take less taxes from families and to ensure that low income Canadians can benefit from existing tax credits by making them refundable. IT IS NOT, get it through your head, NOT new social spending.

    The tax cuts are split between businesses and individuals. It is expected that some of the increased costs will be passed on to individuals, hence why there are income taxes for individuals. Businesses will receive about $5 billion in tax cuts to the corporate and small business rate and though the CCA and SR&ED tax credits.

    David, AGAIN and I made it clear, you FAIL to answer the question I posed. If Dion's tax shift is going to drive business off shore and hurt the Canadian economy, then

    WHAT IS HARPER'S PLAN GOING TO DO THAT TAXES CARBON AT AN EVEN HIGHER RATE OF $65 PER TON? ANSWER THAT!

    So tell me David, how will Harper's plan NOT hurt the economy but Dion's will. ANSWER IT!!!!

    At least Dion's gives business and consumer so tax breaks to lessen the burden and simply to create a price signal without adding to the tax burden. Harper's does not.

    Yes David some companies might move, which is why I expect you will see nations adding tariffs to countries with non-environmentally friendly emissions regimes. But ignoring that right now, how is it any different than what would happen under Harper's plan? Not all companies can move David. The oil sands investment wont dry up because there are few places left in the world were cheap oil can be obtained. Offshore oceanic drilling is expensive.
  84. boz dobbs from toronto, Canada writes: Mr .Dion,are you still a citizen of France.