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Wine drinkers are voters too

BEPPI CROSARIOL

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 1:59 PM EST 23/09/08

Tear down provincial barriers to wine and you get my vote ...Read the full article

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  1. M D from Ottawa, Canada writes: Most of these laws should be erased. The best beers in Canada are made in Quebec, yet most are not 'exported' to the other provinces. I guess I'll just have to bootleg a few over on the bus to work every morning to Ontario.
  2. A Navvy from Canada writes: A nice thought, unfortunately there is very little federal politicians can do. Our small minded, petty premiers guard their silly little fiefdoms viciously. God forbid a federal politician make a suggestion. Free our wine and beer!
  3. wish to remain anonymous from Utah, United States writes: We still have 'dry' counties... and perhaps you lovely Canadians, if you open your eyes to all suggestions can enjoy having some areas (as voted by local residents) that are not burdened by the vice of liquor.

    Less drunk drivers murdering our families on the roads.

    Less teenage pregnancies.

    Less 'domestic disputes'.

    Less (I hate to even type the words) 'strip' clubs which endanger and promote hatred towards women.

    More fathers spending evenings with their families, rather than at the local watering holes.

    It may be radical to some of you, but many of us truly enjoy being distant from the ills that go hand-in-hand with alcoholic beverages.
  4. Angry West Coast Canuck from Canada writes: Ah yes, the famous offer of LCBO and BC Liquor Stores (the local BC version) to get you what you want. I tried to take advantage of that. A good (excellent and well regarded) bottle of sake in Japan costs about $10. A case of 12 for $124, no discount. If the brewery I was buying it from shipped it to me, total cost would be about $200 to $250 depending on shipping choices. Quote I got from BC Liquor Stores: $600. 'Free service'? Like hell it is!! The other one I tried was a very nice rhum from a place far away. Even giving them the contact details of the distillery, they refused to quote me. Then threatened me with legal action if I brought the stuff into the province myself.

    Then the farce that they won't carry the products of local vintners and brewers because, and I quote, 'they don't make enough to supply all our stores, and we can't just sell stuff in one store'. That's barring the fact that I can go into any one of the three BCLS shops in town and get a totally different selection - mostly mediocre.

    Prohibition never ended folks. Here in Canada our alcohol tastes are still under the control of petty bureaucrats who think Molson makes beer, that Labatts tastes good, and that Baby Duck is a fine 'champagne'. That is one part of the government bureaucracy that I really wouldn't mind seeing trimmed down. Say, 100% cutback?
  5. Bob Fugger from Victoria, BC, Canada writes: wish to remain anonymous from Utah, United States writes: We still have 'dry' counties... and perhaps you lovely Canadians, if you open your eyes to all suggestions can enjoy having some areas (as voted by local residents) that are not burdened by the vice of liquor.

    Less (I hate to even type the words) 'strip' clubs which endanger and promote hatred towards women.

    -----------------------------

    You guys got it all wrong down there: strip clubs promote my love of women, not hatred. ;)
  6. Bruno Masquillier from Canada writes: In all other modern civilised countries I know, you can go to your local supermarket and buy your with the rest of the groceries, or in a freely managed wine shop. Why isn't it possible in Canada? Because it's alcohol? I failed to see the logic in this, except for the a prohibition era logic, and the revenue it brings to governments at the expense of people who have the good taste to prefer wine to soda.
  7. R E from Toronto, Canada writes: great. now the Mormons are here spreading their message even though it has nothing to do with the story. Well, Anonymous, perhaps fewer child brides in polygamist sects would also help women out a little, yeah? why don't you clean that up, then worry about how alcohol has turned all Canadians into drunk-driving wife beaters.
  8. wish to remain anonymous from Utah, United States writes: R E - my, my, your comments are full of hatrid.

    What is it that fuels your desire to harm your health with such vitriol?

    Do you feel anger towards all religions?

    Has it occurred to you that not all mormons are polygamists?

    Would you be ashamed if your children, spouse, parents or friends read your comments?

    Do you really think they were helpful & constructive?

    Do you think you represent your country welll with that language?

    Perhaps you ought to open your mind & give others opinions' some thought. You'll find that doing so will help not only yourself, but the world around you. [If only our leaders (Canadian & US) would do the same, perhaps we wouldn't have such issues facing us in North America]
  9. Tom Beckett from Canada writes: Time to remove the interprovincial barriers to trade in the beverage alcohol industry.

    How do we do that?
  10. a salajan from To, Canada writes: Article writes 'Mr. Layton notes the LCBO, like most other liquor boards, offers a no-charge private order service that enables customers to source products from around the world, including Canada, with a one-case minimum'

    Whaaat? No charge? When I contacted LCBO for a private order for a case of wine for under 10$ a bottle (at country of origin) they told me they would need ONE CASE for testing (paid by me of course) and I have to cover 100% LCBO markup. Shipping was on top of that. And it would take up to three months. That wasn't probably all...feds would want their cut too.

    Who are these people? Are they all inbred? Have I voted for them? Cons, Libs, NDP come and go nothing changes. Is it MADD such a powerful lobby group?

    wish to remain anonymous from Utah, United States,
    Let me decide what's good for me. Certainly brainwashing isn't.
  11. Steve I'm Not an Alberta Redneck from Calgary, Canada writes: I've always thought that a new law is needed that mandates that legislatures repeal 2 laws for every one they enact. This would clean up this stupidity in a hurry.
  12. A Navvy from Canada writes: Don't feed the yankee troll

    Tom > Pretty simple really, raise heck. Get in contact with your MPP or MLA and their party leader / premier and let them know that it is an issue for you. Things are already moving on the beer front (http://www.freeourbeer.org) as well as a petition that was covered in The Star. The last thing Dalton said on the issue was that the system 'ain't broke'.
  13. W G from Burlington, Canada writes: What's so unusual about wine or beer etc. than any other product? Let us shop where we find the right product.That's a free enterprise system. The problem is trying to loosen the grip of a monopoly - get the government out of the liquor business... all aspects of it. They don't sell bread or pizzas. Yes, there's some things we'll lose - like the Food & Drink catalogue my wife loves, - like the strict quality control of imported products (I hear that China is now growing grapes!), - like... I've run out of 'things' we'll lose. OH, YES! WE'LL LOSE THE COMPETITIVE PRESSURE TO LOWER PRICES. Stop the monopoly!
  14. SusieQ 321 from NoWhereVille, Canada writes: Funny but I talked to a wine importer last year of small vintage burgundies and bordeaux's at a wine dinner last year and asked how I could purchase his wines in ON.... there is no way he won't deal with the LCBO he has in the past and the are horrid to deal with for ordering, demanding of their suppliers and in the past have take over a year to pay invoices as presented they contest everything and will never be worth the money...
    And once again I wonder why can't I have privately owned liquor stores in On with the selections I want...
  15. a salajan from Canada writes: THere is some confusion out there between the Liquor board and the LCBO store.

    The board has the monopoly, the store is just an outlet. Even if they let private stores open, you still need to go through the same channels to import. But as a small importer you have a lot less purchasing power. There won't be much competitive pressure since most of the price we pay is tax/accise.

    I like the LCBO stores; I've seen the privatelly owned in US and out west and I have no desire to see them here. They are ugly, crammed with non-alcoholic merchandise...more like a convenience store.

    On the other hand I hate the LCBO store emplyoee's hollier than god attitude. You are there to sell alcohol not to police.
  16. J Albert from Toronto, Canada writes: The best stores I've been to are in Alberta - better variety than the LCBO.

    In reality, what you might be able to do in terms of private sourcing via the LCBO is different that in theory. A number of wine agents I've spoken with say the LCBO is exceptionally slow and bureaucratic.

    Of course, many Ontarians swear things are OK - obviously the ones who don't get around much.
  17. Allan Dennis from Canada writes: I have visted Alberta's liquor/beer stores on a number of occasions. The selection was dismal, selling only the most popular brands, and the prices were higher. As for private, the province only allows a specific number of licenses. Only a select few are allowed to open a liquor/beer store. The difference is that profits go into the private manager's pocket, instead of the taxpayers'.
  18. A Navvy from Canada writes: Taxpayers pocket? huh? I assume you mean the pockets of absurdly overpaid shelf stockers...

    Everytime this comes up, people always come by and say 'I've been to Alberta and the selection is horrible'. Stop it. That's a lie, flat out. Anyone who have travelled at all knows that in any area with a reasonable population, a private establishment will be opened to supply the demand of the locals. I lived in a tiny, isolated town in Ireland and had a better off-licence than the LCBO... and most certainly that foreign owned abomination we call The Beer Store.
  19. s l from Vancouver, Canada writes: I'll be the first to agree with anyone who tells me that we need more sensible liquor laws in this country. These kinds of interprovincial barriers are stupid at best.
    But if you think you've got it bad with the LCBO, just be glad you don't have to deal with the BCL. The LCBO's level of terribleness looks divine in comparison to the mess of liquor laws and such that we've got in BC. Cold beer and wine stores that charge up to double what a bottle is worth at a government-run liquor store, zero selection, and my favourite, of course, is the price difference between cold booze and room temperature. You can have the cold stuff, but it'll cost you... Just don't ask me why.

    Besides, what other liquor control board has its own cheer?
    L C, L C B, L C B O, let's go!
  20. Peter Boland from calgary, Canada writes: Allan Dennis. You may have visited Alberta's liquor/Stores but clearly didn't do much research. Sure the corner store liquor outlets are limited in terms of selection but check out any one of the many dedicated wine shops or mega stores in the city. I bet you won't find half the brands and vintages they have any where else in the country.
    As far as limited licenses are concerned there is a shopping centre near me that has at least five liquor stores and there are several more within blocks. If that is limiting licenses I guess I'll concede your point.
    While the Alberta system isn't perfect it sure beats anything else in this country in terms of convenience, price and selection..
  21. John Perkins from NAKUSP, BC, Canada writes: R E from Toronto: I hope you feel duly and properly chastised by that Mor(m)on from Utah. 'My my' is a pretty strong oath, and while he says that not all Mormons are polygamists, they only sort of 'outlawed' polygamy sometime within the last 50 years.
  22. Bill Hopkins from London, Canada writes: When in God's name are we going to do away with the LCBO? This is an anachronism. I can still recal when you couldn't touch or even see the bottle before you bought it.

    All you had was list of brand, you filled out a form and handed to the clerk who went into this forbidden land and brought out the bottle in brown paper bag. You by law had to take the bottle straight home - do not pass go! It was even forbidden that you take a bottle to a friend's house for dinner - my, was I ever a law-breaker in those days.

    The LCBO store in the town nearby stocks all kinds of plonk, cheap sherries, and doe not even stock any Madiera, let alone a good 30 year Malmsey!

    How I long for the day when I might go into a private store staffed by the owener who actually knew which end of the bottle to pour the wine out of and talk about vintages and stuff.
  23. Nathan Weatherdon from Canada writes: Bill, would you rather the government provide services with alcohol profits or higher taxes. .... or perhaps you prefer fewer services.

    Whatever the case is, I don't see why it's in the public interest to sell the LCBO. It makes good money, has decent prices, and in general offers an amazing variety.
  24. Mike Witcher from Montreal, Canada writes: You know, I've always wondered why I couldn't get good quality Ice Wines from BC or Ontario in Montreal. Now I know. That law is shameful and outdated.
    Spread joy and happiness in the form of Fin du Monde to the rest of Canada I say!

    Anonymous from Utah,
    Hahahah! I love it when people go onto comment sections and pretend to
    have freaky opinions like a Raelian or other cults, or a racist redneck, or Frankenstein or a mormon just to get a rise out of people. Good show, troll!
  25. Waning Gibbous from Canada writes: A little free trade within Canada would be a good thing. There are some really fine wineries from east to west, I tried a truly marvellous black current ice wine and a cranberry port in New Brunswick last month, I have had some wonderful muscats from the Okanangan. It is a pity they are not available outside of the provincies where they are made...
  26. dumb guy from Vancouver, Canada writes: This must also be the stupid law that prevents my sister, who owns a small winery in Tasmania, from shipping us cases of wine. She can ship wine all over the world, but cannot ship it to Canada (or the US, for that matter). The postal laws in both countries prevent them from accepting beverage alcohol for delivery directly to a consumer (though you can send it to your provincial Liquor Distribution warehouse or another importer of record). It isn't even a matter of collecting the taxes, which could easily be collected as part of the customs and excise payments due with importation if you brought it into the country as part of your luggage from a trip.

    Stupid is as stupid does.
  27. Mike Witcher from Montreal, Canada writes: Dumb guy,

    Has your sister tried to contact a distributor? Maybe she could go that route.
    I wish someone in my family owned a winery....oh to dream.
  28. Another Opinion from Toronto, Canada writes: Two points:

    First, there is no question that the LCBO actively discourages products from outside Ontario, and I personally find the practice repugnant and I make every effort to share that feedback with them whenever I'm in a store.

    However, given the infantile regionalist rhetoric spouted by some of the emotionally stunted regulars on this site, it's hardly surprising that provincial governments don't feel the need to repeal such ludicrous laws.

    Second, attacking the LCBO's selection is pretty clearly the product of a weak mind. True, the smaller stores in smaller communities have less selection, but I'm confident that's the case in Alberta as well. There are LCBO stores in Toronto the size of grocery stores, with comparable selection. On top of that, they offer regular special orders for VERY rare items that can be shipped to the local store of your choice.

    I'm sure the Alberta system has its advantages, just as the LCBO does, but both systems also have their limitations. If you don't have the maturity to deal with the facts of the world around you, my suggestion would be to seek professional help.
  29. Seb D from Ottawa, Canada writes: But, but, but, but liquor laws are a provincial jurisdiction, are they not???

    This is an example of what happens when we have blind faith in what's federal is federal and what's provincial is provincial and never the twain shall meet.
  30. Rollo T from Belgium writes:

    If the LCBO is so good, why is there no competition allowed?
  31. Maria Gatti from Montreal, Canada writes: I wish we could get a better selection of Ontario wines here - there are very few. Our ice wine and cider are good, true, but our table wines will require a couple more decades of global warming.

    I've had excellent wines from Niagara - and good, economical table wines as well, and they are very reasonable in terms of food miles.

    Yep, whenever I go to Ottawa, I take some beer for a beer aficionado friend, and return with a few bottles of good Niagara wine.
  32. Rusty Brown from Cobourg, Ontario, Canada writes:
    Let's not lose sight of the issue here: silly and outdated restrictions on interprovincial traffic in Canadian wine, and how to get rid of such antequated laws ASAP, now that we have a mature and laudable fine wine industry in varied and various parts of Canada.

    By the way -- Anonymous from Utah, when you say:
    "Less drunk drivers...
    Less teenage pregnancies...
    Less 'domestic disputes'.
    Less (I hate to even type the words) 'strip' clubs..."
    surely you mean "FEWER drunk drivers...FEWER teenage pregnancies...etc."
    Yes?

    RB
  33. Bill Garrison from Tuttle, Oklahoma, United States writes: Is it true that Molson is more available in the United States than it is in some provinces of Canada? I have heard so.
  34. B C from Canada writes: Good article. 100% true. I would never buy Mission hill though. A "B " wine outfit with "A " marketing.
  35. john smith from Canada writes: And here i was all happy that we don't have to buy our wine consumers distributing style - out of a catalouge for the counter staff to retriev for us and hand over in state sponsored advertising free paper bags because of the truly deplorable sin of our ways!!LCBO = KGBO
    Get rid of it
  36. geoffrey james from Canada writes: I immediately thought of Ottawa/Gatineau when I read the column. This Torontonian has a summer place on the Ottawa River and greatly enjoys dealing with the Quebec/Ontario wine oligopololy. Quebec has a much better list of regional French wines, Ontario is stronger in Italian. Quebec used to be more expensive, but its expensive wines can sometimes be cheaper than the same bottle in Ontario. Between the two , the choice is fabulous. Sometimes I stay with my son in Los Angeles, where we shop for wine at Trader Vick's. The deals are incredible, but after a week you kind of know the whole stock. On the larger point, isn't there something in the Charter of Rights that protects us from avenging, monopolistic puritans ?
  37. Deas, She Wrote from New York, United States writes: Durn - Red Rooster?! I visited them, and liked them.

    This obsession with blocking people from having bottles of wine, when there's meth labs all over the place, is pathetic.
  38. Jay Sherman from Canada writes: I would like to see wholesale reforms to the liquor system - the LCBO is a relic of the prohibition era. I believe the system will continue a slow reformation - as the key people in the old special interest groups die off and are replaced with younger key people in new special interest groups. It would be nice if the pace of reformation picked up a bit though. I appreciate the difficulty in differentiating between alcohol aficionados and alcoholics, but (in general) people who are willing to go to all the trouble of order special super premium draft sake from Japan or a festival bottling of scotch from Islay are not going to abuse the alcohol and become a menace on the roads. Many people I know cope with the LCBO's inefficiencies by purchasing their prized alcohol abroad, removing them from their tell-tale boxes (if necessary) and underdeclaring them if the goods weren't purchased from a duty-free outlet (to avoid paying consumption tax a second time). I doubt one would have problems convincing the average customs officer that a $500 bottle of liquor is worth only $75. Of course, if Ontario's regulations weren't so backwards, I could order scotch from Europe (most UK online retailers knock off the VAT if you're out-of-country) and I would happily pay my consumption taxes plus a reasonable service fee (e.g. 13% GST/PST plus $5 per bottle) to feed the customs officers. I think even a small service fee would be enough to prevent most people from special-ordering non-premium alcohol - the type of alcohol that many of us over-consumed in our youth. The inter-provincial roadblocks are even more of a farce - the PST is the most efficient way to put money in the provinces coffers and an administration fee of $1.00 per bottle would be more-than enough to oversea a simple user-friendly inter-province importing procedure. Many of us would appreciate a more transparent service and many of us have long memories come election time.

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