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Dion promises farmers $1.2-billion package

CAMPBELL CLARK

Staff and Canadian Press

Latest comment posted at 11:22 AM EST 19/09/08

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  1. Dave Roberts from GTA, Canada writes: The Green Shaft tax grab won't pay for this either. Another unaffordable promise.
  2. Mike T. Sharp from Wsanec BC, Canada writes:

    This time it's the farmers turn to get their ponies.
    Now there's a demographic that knows what to do with a pony.

    Farmers and Liberals.
    Mutually exclusive.
  3. West Virginian Albino Mexican from Canada writes: Dave Roberts from GTA, Canada writes: The Green Shaft tax grab won't pay for this either. Another unaffordable promise.

    =================================================

    More flipflopping, spinning, backtracking, stammering and stuttering by Dion on CTV:

    When asked directly in order to pay for all of his promises would he either raise taxes or cut programs...

    3x 'you will see' before stuttering the 'carbon tax is completely revenue neutral' before stammering 'we will not raise taxes' back to 'you will see'.

    How about a straight answer?
  4. Lection Fever from coast to coast in, Canada writes: I thought he might offer a $trillion for farmers and then remembered none of them vote for him.

    Oh.
  5. Dave Roberts from GTA, Canada writes: Dion is correct that farmers should be the only ones to determine the future of the Wheat Board. The farmers had their say on barley marketing and were ignored by the Liberals and NDP.
  6. Lection Fever from coast to coast in, Canada writes: He 'would give farmers full control over the Canadian Wheat Board.'

    Here's an idea, genius:

    I would give wheat farmers in the west full control over their own Canadian wheat just like farmers in the rest of Canada.

    Now isn't that just a little more sane?
  7. Derek Holtom from Swan River, Canada writes: Interesting announcement. It won't change many voter's minds in the west though. The question is, will this be enough to help Goodale retain his seat?
  8. D G from Canada writes: No Lection Fever - that is what Harper does.
  9. A S from Canada writes: Where will all the money come from to pay for all of Mr Dion's promises. I'm sure he's averaging at least a few Billion a day in promises.

    I just watched Mr Dion make this announcement on CPAC - and this was not reported in the article.

    When asked how he would pay for his Billions in promises, Mr Dion said that it will be disclosed later on, however he did promise that he would not raise taxes, nor would he cut existing programming.

    Where is the money going to come from? Will he grow it on his green shaft trees? Will he ask the Bank of Canada to issue new money, thus devaluing the Canadian dollar? I just don't get it...

    This is not fiscally responsible...
  10. Jamie Reed from Ottawa, Canada writes: Where is this guy getting the money for all of this stuff?
  11. Stan L from Canada writes: Ottawa (4 Feb. 2008) - This week agriculture minister Gerry Ritz threatened to legislate an end to supply management in barley if the Canadian Wheat Board doesn't open the market on its own. The announcement followed a private meeting in Ottawa paid for by the agriculture department, to which only corporate representatives and anti-CWB lobbyists were invited. Ritz acknowledged he stacked the room with supporters.....

    It's time that someone put the mangement back into the hands of the farmers and stop messing around......good move by Dion.
  12. Brian Ch from Canada writes: As long as the Liberals continue their stance with regard to the CWB, throwing money at farmers will be met with cynicism. Farmers would want full control over the wheat and barley that they sell, not control of the CWB.
  13. Joe Citizen from Everytown, Canada writes: LIBERAL ECONOMIC TRACK RECORD

    Change in Productivity While in Office

    Diefendaker 9.7%
    Pearson 18.6%
    Trudeau(1) 30.4%
    Clark 0.4%
    Trudeau(2) 11.8%
    Mulroney 6.4%
    Chretien 18.3%
    Martin 4.1%
    Harper -0.6%

    Source: CCPA calculations from Statistics Canada quarterly data

    YOU WILL NOTICE THAT HARPER'S IS THE WORST IN 40 YEARS !
  14. D Wiatzka from Canada writes: The liberals are spending like drunken sailors - $70 billion yesterday, $9 billion for farmers, 'We might run a deficit, er, actually we won't run a deficit! Promise!'

    Hey Stephane - you might not have noticed, but revenues won't be spiralling up anytime soon - unless you're planning to tax us to death...
  15. D Wiatzka from Canada writes: Hey Joe Citizen - please provide a link. I'd like to see that data. Thanks!
  16. Brenton E. from Canada writes: Jamie Reed from Ottawa, Canada writes: Where is this guy getting the money for all of this stuff?
    -----------
    from John Deere and other profitable corporations that took the billions Mr. Harper gave them and then ran for the hills. The carbon tax. Additional taxes raised threw the purchase of agricultural products. One bit of legislature must be enacted to allow fair competition for our farmers, currently we import many products from other nations, these same products are grown here but the imports are much cheaper. One reason these imported products are cheaper is that the countries producing them do not have any environmental laws so they can use cheap chemical fertilizers that are outlawed in Canada.
  17. Stan L from Canada writes: Brian Ch from Canada writes: As long as the Liberals continue their stance with regard to the CWB, throwing money at farmers will be met with cynicism. Farmers would want full control over the wheat and barley that they sell, not control of the CWB.

    The Harper government has made a right mess of this period. The CWB had a government mandate for decades to market Canadian grains on behalf of Western farmers. The CWB took no profit from the sales.The fact is that Harper is meddling and not to farmers benefit.....'The American grain industry is delighted. The former president of the National Association of Wheat Growers said that if the CWB loses its single desk selling authority, 'US wheat would be more competitive in markets such as Asia, the Middle East and Central America, where the two countries go head to head.'

    Dion is right, get your fingers out of there, get the lobbyists and the Americand and the big multinationals out of there and give them back theri CWB in the way it was intended to operate and let them decide for themselves what to do without lawsuits, gag orders and governmental interferance.
  18. Johnny Test from Pork Belly, Canada writes: Christ Almighty this man Dion is nuts!
  19. B M from Barrie, Canada writes: Good Lord, is anyone adding this up? How many billions for Dion so far. We're going to have to sell the Maritimes to the U.S to pay for all this.
  20. D T from vancouver, Canada writes: The last thing we need to do is help farmers now. First, they get too much help already. Second, doesn't Dion know that farmers are doing extremely well right now with current commodity prices?

    Dion, you are so out of touch it is not funny.
  21. D Wiatzka from Canada writes: lol - never mind Joe Citizen - found it - a quick look at the numbers shows a number of things.

    First off, the authors are terribly partisan and biased.

    Second, the numbers quoted don't make the time frame of reference the same to give an appropriate measure of performance.

    For example, Diefenbaker's 9.7 was over three years == 3.2 % per year. Chretien's 18% was over ten years == 1.8%.

    Trudeau's so-called # 1 was 30.4% over ELEVEN years for a 2.8% average. His # 2 was 11.8% over five years for a 2.4% average.

    So when you look at the performance based upon the years in office, the prime minister with the best average was Diefenbaker.

    But that aside, Martin, Mulroney, Harper, etc. - examine every one of their terms and those performance numbers and what you find is that each period's productivity was determined by global economic performance - they pretty much ALWAYS parallel what was happening globally.

    The bottom line is that the facts show that NO PMO can take credit or blame for these numbers - rather the GLOBAL ECONOMY determines these numbers.

    Nice try though.
  22. Dave Roberts from GTA, Canada writes: 'CCPA calculations from Statistics Canada quarterly data'

    The main reason productivity has taken a drop in the past few years is the strong Canadian $. That is due to strong demand for Canadian resources, not due to goverment policy.

    Since we're quoting stats, look at unemployment numbers - 30 year lows during the time in office of the Harper government.
  23. B M from Barrie, Canada writes: Excellent analysis D Wiatzka!!!!! It's nice when someone looks at the whole picture and provides an accurat unbiased result. When the market dropped, oil dropped and gas prices went up, they all blamed Harper. (Um?... not sure he has that much influence...) Now that the markets are recovering, oil is going up and gas prices are dropping faster that the Liberals in the polls, can Harper take credit for that too.
  24. Stan L from Canada writes: B M from Barrie, Canada writes: Good Lord, is anyone adding this up? How many billions for Dion so far. We're going to have to sell the Maritimes to the U.S to pay for all this.

    Well, In Harper's vision of Canada we will have sold out our farmers interests in getting the best price for their product to the Americans and the multinationals......is that kind of what you are talking about?

    The fact is that all the leaders are making promises right now, they all do it.....can they pony up after is the question. Harper hasn't ponied up on his 2006 promises so we know the value of his promises are nothing.....as for Layton, Dion and May? only time will tell what their promsies are really worth.
  25. B M from Barrie, Canada writes: In all fairness to the Stats gods, Dave Roberts, the record low unemployment rate is partially as a result of the global demand for oil and the number of jobs created in the oil patch. Many manufacturing jobs have been lost in Ontario (also due to strong dollar) God forbid tomorrow someone invents a pill you put in your gas tank then add water. We'd be in serious trouble.
  26. Mike T. Sharp from Wsanec BC, Canada writes:

    I have added up Dion's promises to date.

    So far it's a gazillion dollars and as many ponies.

    Layton has been equally irresponsible.
    His promise of a gazillion kitchen tables has never been seen before in Canadian political history.
  27. B M from Barrie, Canada writes: Actually Jack Layton has promised to come over to everybody's house on Sunday's and cut the lawn. Very cool!!! You got my vote Jack. (Hey wasn't that the name of the kid in Puff the Magic Dragon...little Jackie Draper?)
  28. Derek Holtom from Swan River, Canada writes: D T from vancouver, Canada writes: The last thing we need to do is help farmers now. First, they get too much help already. Second, doesn't Dion know that farmers are doing extremely well right now with current commodity prices?

    Dion, you are so out of touch it is not funny.
    ---
    Well, technically, livestock producers are not doing so well because of high feed costs. And input costs have REALLY gone up. But yes, some farmers are doing quite well these days. That's not to say they haven't toughed it out for a number of years.
    Dion's promises remind me of NDP type announcements. Come the debates, I think this is what it will come down to between Harper and Dion. Big spending versus modest spending
  29. Skeptical Realist from Canada writes: Dion has lost his mind. Like suggested above, if he says he won't raise taxes, or cut any programs the only way he can pay for this is to print more money. Devaluing the loonie - interesting approach.
    Then again, this is just like Chretien and his Red Book election promises. Once he was in power, he reneged on virtually everything (helicopters, daycare, Kyoto, getting rid of the GST, getting rid of NAFTA, combatting corruption, combatting crime etc etc etc). As some philosopher once said, 'time cures all ills'. I guess the electorate is forgetting about all the Lib misdeeds, lies, corruption and funny business when they were in power.
  30. Tim Dowell from Canada writes: A cautionary tale for Dion?

    With all of these ponies being given away I think Dion should be very careful. I don't think Stan L. and Joe Citizen should get a pony... the Liberals should remember what happened the last time they gave all their friends ponies.
  31. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Is this in addition to the $1 billion in aid to farmers and truckers that he already announced as part of his Green Shift? For a guy who's telling us we're already in a deficit situation, he sure likes throwing the money around.
  32. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Stan L, since there is no 'supply management' for barley, the journalist who wrote that obviously had no clue what he/she is talking about. Barley production is not under any quota system whatsoever. The CWB sets quotas for SALES ONLY, not for production.
  33. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: Good luck wooing farmers Dion...you're going to need it.
  34. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Liberal Leader would give farmers full control over the Canadian Wheat Board ... as long as they allow the Canadian Wheat Board to maintain it's complete control over their grain.
  35. M Jones from Canada writes: When asked how he would pay for his Billions in promises, Mr Dion said that it will be disclosed later on, however he did promise that he would not raise taxes, nor would he cut existing programming.
    ***************************************************
    If he doesn't raise taxes or cut programming, then the only way Dion can pay for his billions in promises is through DEFICIT financing! Dion should be familiar with that - the Trudeau Libs invented it.

    How can anyone trust someone who won't be forthright about how he plans to pay for such a scheme? Dion's answer is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE. Besides, the Prairies are largely Con voters, so I see this as a blatant attempt to by votes - shame!
  36. Bill Thompson from Calgary, Canada writes: Tax and Spend…Tax and Spend. What la-la land are the Liberals living in? For crying out loud this country cannot afford these fiscal spendthrifts. They need to be sent a very strong message. The liberal policy is a fiscal disaster, managed by someone that has not a clue as to how to balance his own cheque book&8230;and we are going to give him the keys to our treasury&8230;I do not think so!
  37. West Virginian Albino Mexican from Canada writes: 'Green Shift not major platform plank, Dion says' Liberal leader plays down Green Shift policy after pledges $1.2B in green funding to farmers... 'Liberal Leader Stephane Dion said today that his Green Shift plan featuring a controversial carbon tax is not a major part of his election platform. 'You have said it was but never me,' Dion told reporters. His surprise declaration follows by a day campaign appearances in the Toronto area where he failed to mention it once in his speeches. Dion released the Green Shift plan in June in Ottawa with great fanfare. It proposes to tax fossil fuels while cutting taxes for lower and middle income Canadians. 'I have always said it was an important policy for Canada. I strongly believe it would be good for Canada,' he told reporters. Dion said: “Okay, maybe I didn’t use the word `green shift’ ” but denied he was downplaying the policy. However, Rudy Ammeter, the owner of an area farm where Dion released his agricultural plan today – he pledged $1.2 billion in green funding for farmers – told reporters that he wished the party leader would back away from it. 'I have a hard time figuring it out,' he said. http://www.thestar.com/FederalElection/article/502283 ================================================= Dion = Liar
  38. Stan L from Canada writes: Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Stan L, since there is no 'supply management' for barley, the journalist who wrote that obviously had no clue what he/she is talking about.

    It's from the Canadian Wheat board website.....I suggest if you have a problem with them, you better take it up with them. Hwo do you respond to the fact that Harper (Strhal/Ritz) has interferred to the degree they have..lawsuits gag orders, firings....all part of the new open and accountible he was talking about?
  39. M Jones from Canada writes: B M from Barrie, Canada writes: That's it, Dion's finished. He just pounded the last nail into his polotical coffin. !!!! I just found this on the CBC website, it's absolutely unbelievable. 'Liberal Leader Stephane Dioin said today that his Green Shift plan featuring a controverial carbon tax is not a major part of his election platform. 'You have said it was but never me,' Dion told reporters.
    **************************************************
    Is he off his meds or what? It is obvious I am not a Dion supporter and as I stated last week in response to another article, 'Dion will fall on his sword.' You have just seen political suicide. What will it take for many to see that Dion is clearly NOT the best choice to represent Canada on the global stage? He is embarassing.
  40. Nancy Wilson from N.Ontario, Canada writes: Let's see.
    Nationalised Day care,Nationalised Prescription Drug plan,Money for fishermen,money for farmers..money for nurses,money for Doctors..money for Immigration..
    Money for students,money for seniors,money for low income families..
    $70 BILLION for infrastructure...
    -Has he missed anyone yet?
    This is so unrealistic,and pie in the sky promises.
    You can't be everything to everybody.
    That's why 'priorities'need to be taken into account.
    Nobody can actually believe that we can spend all this money,without a HUGE deficit,can they??
    Deficit double vision
    Sept. 17: Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion does a swift about-face regarding government deficits. At a morning press conference, he refuses to categorically rule out running a deficit if the economy slides. By that afternoon, he states unequivocally that a Liberal government would never cause a deficit
  41. B M from Barrie, Canada writes: That's exactly the word to describe him...EMBARASSING!!! Look on the bright side, by April he'll be gone and probably teaching grade 3 at some Montessori school in rural Northern Quebec somewhere.
  42. Loudan Bellicose from Canada writes: Liberal promises.
    I wont stick it in all the way.
    Think GST, Red Book, wages and price control.
    Think.
    I am Liberal, therefore I Lie.
  43. A S from Canada writes: M Jones from Canada writes: When asked how he would pay for his Billions in promises, Mr Dion said that it will be disclosed later on, however he did promise that he would not raise taxes, nor would he cut existing programming.
    **************************************************
    If he doesn't raise taxes or cut programming, then the only way Dion can pay for his billions in promises is through DEFICIT financing! Dion should be familiar with that - the Trudeau Libs invented it.

    How can anyone trust someone who won't be forthright about how he plans to pay for such a scheme? Dion's answer is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE. Besides, the Prairies are largely Con voters, so I see this as a blatant attempt to by votes - shame!

    ***********************************

    Liberal secret hidden agenda = deficit finance all of their promises
  44. Centerist Tory From Calgary from Canada writes: Dion was paddling upstream very hard to avoid the waterfall. Now he has turned around to his inevitable fate---and he doesn't even have a barrel to go over the falls with
  45. Bosco . from Toronto, Canada writes: So the government surplus is gone, which was our tax dollars collected by the liberals above the amount needed to run government. Where exactly is 'do you think its easy making priorities' going to get the $70 Billion he is promising. The twit can't even balance his own check book.

    Of course, as we all know that the liberal stratagy is to break promises and increase taxes. So I would have to pay more and likely not for anything he has promised.
  46. Stan L from Canada writes: Loudan Bellicose from Canada writes: Liberal promises.
    I wont stick it in all the way.
    Think GST, Red Book, wages and price control.
    Think.

    Yes indeed THINK, that was in 1993 and two Prime Ministeres ago.....Harper is the PM now.....
    Think Accountibility, 2006 Blue Book, unelected senators, secret de-regulation.
    THINK
  47. M Jones from Canada writes: To BM: I was hoping he would be gone by Oct 15th and do you really want Dion teaching our children? ;))
  48. ByB ImYmI from Canada writes: ..//

    An whose pocket is that 1.2 billion coming out of?

    The liberals just promised another $120.00 from every tax payer to somebody else.

    ..//
  49. Andrew E from Canada writes: Stan L from Canada writes: It's time that someone put the mangement back into the hands of the farmers and stop messing around......good move by Dion.

    Good move Dion?? Western farmers and conservatives have been calling for the What Board to be scrapped for years now... just another Liberal stolen idea.
  50. B M from Barrie, Canada writes: Go Haper!.......Go Harper! I wonder what it will be like with Jack layton as the leader of the Official Opposition. This just in.....'Janine Krieber (Dion's wife) seen at a local Ottawa LCBO loading empty boxes into the back of the car.' Sounds like she's started packing already. Wonder what changes Jack's going to make to Stornoway? I heard he's going to do it all in geometric shapes like Kramer did in his apartment.
  51. Clutch Cargo from Canada writes: Ladies - remember the guy in highschool who would tell you anything to get into your pants? Well Dion is that guy.

    promises promises promises - just give me your vote.
  52. Al Bore from Ottawa, Canada writes:

    Where is all the money coming from Liberal$$$?

    Increased Taxes?
    Massive Federal Cuts??
    Friends and Familia???
  53. Sunny Vegas from Canada writes: 'You will See' You will see' LOL

    I saw it already. I don't need to see.

    I wonder if he took any business class in school?

    I bet you Dion only got grade 10 Math (general)
  54. B M from Barrie, Canada writes: Nah, he went to University, had to have the math. Good looking guy like that probably slept his way to the top.
  55. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Stan L, you can bet we'll 'take it up with them' in a big way after the next election.
  56. Lection Fever from coast to coast in, Canada writes: All that work from Dionistas defending the indefensible idiotic Dion mumblings, all just wasted! He's off to other plans now, no more green shift! You know, Dion never said it was important! 'You have said it was but never me!'

    Wow.
  57. Al Bore from Ottawa, Canada writes:

    When will Dion announce billions for left handed diabetic multi-sexuals?
  58. Lection Fever from coast to coast in, Canada writes: B M ' Good looking guy like that probably slept his way to the top. '

    Just like his Paris-loving partner Pettigrew.
  59. Peter McLennan from Toronto, Canada writes: The Liberals are great at making promises. Keeping them is another story.
  60. Don Portz from Trochu AB, Canada writes: As for putting the Wheat Board in the hands of the farmers, I see no problem with the continued existence of the Board provided it does not restrict the farmers who wish to sell their grain outside the board. It may well make the Board more effective if there is some competition. If they cannot become competitive then it should fail.

    Dion is grasping at straws (there is a lot in the fields today) and really does not understand the Western Farming economy. Of course they have so few elected members it is no wonder.
  61. Stan L from Canada writes: Andrew E from Canada writes:......Good move Dion?? Western farmers and conservatives have been calling for the What Board to be scrapped for years now... In 1998 the Liberal federal government empowered western Canadian farmers with control of the CWB, guaranteeing two-thirds of its Board of Directors were elected farmer representatives, and ensuring farmer-control over the management and fate of the Board. Then agriculture minister, Mr. Strahl's first move was to call a closed-door roundtable meeting of stakeholders to discuss the future of the CWB. Invited were multinational grain companies, commodity exchanges and organizations supportive of eliminating the CWB's single desk powers; no mainstream farm organizations or CWB representatives were invited To silence criticism, the Conservative government passed a federal Cabinet order requiring the CWB not spend any money to tell its side of the story, essentially placing a gag-order on the Board's ability to defend itself [4]. To quell dissent Minister Strahl even fired the CWB' Chief Executive Officer, Adrian Measner, for continuing to advocate for the Board. This, despite the fact Mr. Measner was hired to be the champion of the CWB and continued to have the confidence of the Board of Directors In December 2006 Board elections, CWB single-desk supporters were elected to four out of five Board of Directors positions. This, in spite of the fact that Minister Strahl altered the voting eligibility rules, disqualifying 36 per cent of those formerly on the voters list. According to the minister's new rules a producer must have marketed grain through the CWB in one out of the last two years to be eligible to vote...... and it goes on and on and on......are you SO sure this what FARMERs want? Becuase thefre have been so much interferance in this body that it's hard to tell anymore......
  62. J Albert from Toronto, Canada writes: Per the other LPC controlled newpaper, Dion is now backing away from the Green Shift. It is now 'not a major plank' in his platform. Smart people on his platform should be leaving soon.
  63. John G from Ottawa, Canada writes: G&M, you are abdicating your journalistic responsibility by ignoring Dion throwing Green Shift under the bus. This is the story of the campaign. Quit trying to figure out how to spin it to protect the Liberals and report the damn facts
  64. Scare Crow from Canada writes: How come the Star came out with a story that in the same speech/stump Dion said the Green shift is not a major policy after all but just one of them? The tories are now making hay out of it to qoute from the Star. If this is true does that mean that all those revenue neutral thing is out of the window?

    http://www.thestar.com/FederalElection/article/502283
  65. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: 'Liberal Leader Stephane Dion said today that his Green Shift plan featuring a controversial carbon tax is not a major part of his election platform. 'You have said it was but never me,' Dion told reporters....earth to Dion, earth to Dion...sorry this strategy didn't work for John Tory on faith based school funding and it won't work for you either. Does Dion actually think there are Canadian voters out there that are retarded enough to believe him?
  66. Newfoundland First from Republic of Newfoundland, Canada writes: The part that scares me about all of this money is the fact that Dion is setting up all of these funds. Wasn't there an issue a few years ago with the fact that the Auditor General has no authority to audit these types of funds.

    I remember that this was a favorite tactic of Paul Martin and Cretien to have all of these funds set up with no oversight. Everyone knows what kind of trouble that got us into last time.

    Part of Dion's platform is to have the Auditor General verify his numbers each year...how can this happen if these funds are off limits?
  67. rick from river city from Canada writes: Word is that after a couple more 'minor' announcements this week (as in not costing 700M) the Liberals will be done promising and will release their costing and budgeting for all their programs, including the Green Shaft, next week. Any bets it won't be Dion or B-Rae making that announcement?
  68. Lection Fever from coast to coast in, Canada writes: Harvey Mushman ' Does Dion actually think there are Canadian voters out there that are retarded enough to believe him? '


    There are, but they are all here!
    Sty, Stan, DM, Vern, DY, Jkay and the other loyal liberal sycophant hypocrite soldiers will be all over this, once they get their briefing!!
  69. Scared Yet Courageous from Quispamsis, NB, Canada writes: al bore, you must have missed the Dion announcement yesterday in which he had already committed 2 billlion to study the mating rituals of left handed herpes infected men under 40. Can't have more than one group in a handedness category, be it on the left or on the right.
  70. Katherine R from Canada writes: I would vote for the kid who makes my lattes over Harper any day. Aside from being an evil nerd, Stephen Harper has pretty much ended the admiration the rest of the world had for Canada. We are now 'USA Lite', living in the country of George Bush's ugly cousin.

    And besides, where do you geniuses get off thinking that the Conservative Party is fiscally conservative? Does anyone remember Mulroney's massive budget deficits and Chretien's huge surpluses?
  71. Al Bore from Ottawa, Canada writes:

    OU EST LE SHAFT VERT?
  72. Mike M from Canada writes: Joe Citizen from Everytown, Canada writes:
    Change in Productivity While in Office

    Diefendaker 9.7%
    Pearson 18.6%
    Trudeau(1) 30.4%
    Clark 0.4%
    Trudeau(2) 11.8%
    Mulroney 6.4%
    Chretien 18.3%
    Martin 4.1%
    Harper -0.6%

    Source: CCPA calculations from Statistics Canada quarterly data

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    How many comment sections are you going to post this in before you realize that the data, as you provide it, is meaningless.

    A few big reasons:

    1 - There is no adjustment for length of time in office. Trudeau's first run as prime minister lasted 11 years and Clark lasted 9 months, yet you are comparing them as if they were in office equally.

    2 - There is no demonstration as to how the rest of the world did at that time. Did our PMs ride the coat tails of the rest of the world, which is likely considering that we're not a big player in the world economy.

    3 - What drove the increased productivity? Did the PMs get lucky / unlucky where certain sectors of the economy thrived beyond their control?

    Your numbers can provide a good starting point for analysis, but they do little to actually highlight good / bad performance.

    For example, Canada's productivity under Harper has suffered because our manufacturing sectors have taken a big hit due to the problems in the US. Until the PM gets control of the US budgeting process, it's hard to place any credit / blame on him for that.

    Stats 101 - correlation does not equal causation.
  73. Prairie Duststorm from Edmonton, Canada writes: Joe Citizen from Everytown, Canada writes: LIBERAL ECONOMIC TRACK RECORD

    Change in Productivity While in Office

    Diefendaker 9.7%
    Pearson 18.6%
    Trudeau(1) 30.4%
    Clark 0.4%
    Trudeau(2) 11.8%
    Mulroney 6.4%
    Chretien 18.3%
    Martin 4.1%
    Harper -0.6%

    Those numbers meaning 0 whether you are a Liberal or a Tory. Harper has been PM just over two years how long were the rest in office you are comparing apples and oranges.
  74. B M from Barrie, Canada writes: The picture that accompanies Dions backpaddling on the Green Shaft in the CBC website is priceless. He appears so completely incompetant. Nice shot camera guy!!!! Any Liberal with and sign of inteligence will begin distancing themselves from the part...just watch. They will just slowly begin to fade into the shadows. Won't be all bad though. I hear the Green Party is still trying to find candidates for the election.
  75. mike sty - from Canada writes:
    Peter McLennan from Toronto, Canada writes: The Liberals are great at making promises. Keeping them is another story.
    ------------------

    Get your facts correct Liar.....

    Stephen Harper promised to preserve income trusts by not imposing any new taxes on them.

    Stephen Harper broke this promise.

    Stephen Harper promised I will take immediate actions to ensure Canada fully upholds its commitments to women.

    Stephen Harper broke this promise.

    Stephen Harper promised truth in budgeting.

    Stephen Harper broke this promise.

    Stephen Harper promised to never sign side deals on the Atlantic Accord.

    Stephen Harper broke this promise.

    Stephen Harper promised to create 125,000 day care spaces.

    Stephen Harper broke this promise.

    Stephen Harper promised to restore representation by population for Ont, BC and Alberta in HOC while preserving seat counts in smaller provinces.

    Stephen Harper broke this promise.

    Stephen Harper promised to create a public appointments commission to ensure appointments are merit based and independent from the cabinet.

    Stephen Harper broke this promise.

    Stephen Harper promised to increase Canada's capacity to protect Canada's Arctic Sovereignty and security.

    Stephen Harper broke this promise.

    Stephen Harper and the Conservatives ran in the last election on a platform of accountability, they have not implemented their promise and now the Harper government is making it more difficult for Canadians to get information out of their federal institutions, cutting off a free database that helped journalists, politicians and others to find publicly available documents.

    Stephen Harper broke this promise.

    What is Stephen Harper hiding???

    Why is Stephen Harper hiding the truth????

    Stephen Harper promises not to reinstate the death penalty

    Frankly,.....
    Can We Really Trust ALiar?
  76. Crusty Curmudgeon from Ottawa, Canada writes:

    Gosh, where are the LIEberal guppies when you need them to defend a LIEberal policy shift (or is that shaft) --- gone.

    They can only complain about something -- they can't defend anything.

    Typical.
  77. wes maksymetz from tarsandistan, Canada writes: What the hell, a billion here a billion there, we will some have deficits the rival the Trudeau and Mulroney years.
  78. Al Bore from Ottawa, Canada writes:

    $80 BILLION AND COUNTING

    THE DION LIBERAL$ ARE THE SCARIEST THING TO HAPPEN TO CANADA SINCE SARS!!!
  79. M Jones from Canada writes: Katherine R from Canada writes: I would vote for the kid who makes my lattes over Harper any day. Aside from being an evil nerd, Stephen Harper has pretty much ended the admiration the rest of the world had for Canada. We are now 'USA Lite', living in the country of George Bush's ugly cousin.

    And besides, where do you geniuses get off thinking that the Conservative Party is fiscally conservative? Does anyone remember Mulroney's massive budget deficits and Chretien's huge surpluses?
    ***************************************************
    Mulroney inherited the massive debt/deficits from the Trudeau Libs. While I agree that Mulroney was not angel, any efforts he may have made to reduce/eliminate deficits and running up the debt were severely hampered by high interest rates, double digit unemployment and generally tough economic times GLOBALLY. And, no PM can control global economic forces, regardless of the political stripe.

    Cretien's surpluses were created out of over-taxation and prosperous economic times.

    And can we PLEASE stop comparing our polititains to those in the US? I'd like to think we are better than that.
  80. H M from Canada writes: ..........................The farming community here includes more than one farmer ARRESTED for selling grain outside the CWB. The only control they want over it is to kick it out the door.
  81. Shawn Bull from Canada writes: Bringing Dion's election promises to $17 trillion dollars. I sure hope the Green Tax can generate enough dollars to pay for this or else Canada will go back into a deficit under Dion...although Dion did not rule out going into a deficit when questioned yesterday.

    Oh wait I forgot that all this is a moot point as the Liberals under Dion will never win this election. Promise the world Dion as I give you six more weeks before you are tossed after the October 14th thrashing the Liberals are going to recieve.
  82. Lection Fever from coast to coast in, Canada writes: Katherine R 'Business school is notoriously the easiest major available at university.'

    Nope.

    Sociology.

    By far.

    Dion only studied Sociology

    And in his home country of France, no less.
  83. Stan L from Canada writes: M Jones from Canada writes:
    And can we PLEASE stop comparing our polititains to those in the US? I'd like to think we are better than that.

    Who are you kidding? Harper doens't think so, he admires their system and seeks to de-regulate like they have in many areas we take for granted like say......meat inspections
  84. A S from Canada writes: mike sty - from Canada writes:

    _________________

    looks like the Liberal speaking points are now in!!!

    thanks for copying and pasting them on the G&M board mike.
  85. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: Stephane Dion the 'Emily Latella' of Canadian politics. Green Shift? Never mind.
  86. Tim Dowell from Canada writes: Katherine R from Canada writes:

    Looks like the Liberals are headed in a new direction after Dion bailed on the Green Shaft. In your next post don't forget to use the word scary...

    I do however give you points for using the word latte!
    Keep up the good work.
  87. Lection Fever from coast to coast in, Canada writes: Stan L I hope you don't think your meat is safe just because of public servants like Stan Koebel.
  88. Gerry 'Cold-Cuts' Ritz Member from Battlefords Lloydminster, Canada writes: Al Bore from Ottawa, Canada writes:

    $80 BILLION AND COUNTING

    THE DION LIBERAL$ ARE THE SCARIEST THING TO HAPPEN TO CANADA SINCE SARS!!!

    ================================

    SARS? Hahahahaha! How many people died in that? Ho ho ha ha!

    BTW, Tony Clement was doing a bang-up job as Ontario Health Minister at that time. Bang up!
  89. M Jones from Canada writes: Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: Stephane Dion the 'Emily Latella' of Canadian politics. Green Shift? Never mind.
    ***************************************************
    We are dating ourselves - but that was a beaut!!!!!!!!! Keep up the good work!
  90. Robert Loblaw from Canada writes: Katherine R - A self confessed latte liberal.

    Aren't you ashamed?
  91. Greg Out West from Canada writes: So first he'd go into deficit then he wouldn't ?

    Then it's everyone on to the green shaft bandwagon and not it was never a really big plank in his campain. The reporters just ran with it ?

    dion's a clown.
  92. Robert Dryburgh from Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada writes: Is Dion sure this is OK with Rae and Iggy. The three leaders or Larry, Moe and Curley Joe. Replace the single chair in the house with a sofa and they colud sit together so none would be at a loss for words.
  93. M Jones from Canada writes: To Harvey Mushman: OMG - I think I opened 'the box' when I asked you to keep up the good work. ROFLMAO!!!!
  94. Stan L from Canada writes: Lection Fever from coast to coast in, Canada writes: Stan L I hope you don't think your meat is safe just because of public servants like Stan Koebel.

    The Comon Sense revolution of Mike Harris is a copy of Harper's ideology and the fact that Baird and Flaherty and others from his cabinet fit in well with Harper is of little surprise.....the mantra is 'The private sector can do everything better. That's a fact. That's common sense.' By THEIR standards anything which interferes with the private sector - environmental regulations, inspection protocols are to be eliminated......hence Stand Koebel's incompetace runs unchecked, unmonitored........and hence we get ready for more tainted meat scandals....courtesy of Mike Harris...oops Stephen Harper.
  95. Martha K. from Canada writes: A couple of columnists from various papers put Mr. Dion's promises at around 3 billion dollars already - the highest and most unrealistic of all the parties. I guess this makes it 4.

    Good luck voting for this party if you really think they are going to find a way to get 4 billion dollars to distribute to keep these promises. Only way is to raise the GST again - by 2%, only they are not saying that are they?
  96. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: M Jones from Canada writes: 'To Harvey Mushman: OMG - I think I opened 'the box' when I asked you to keep up the good work. ROFLMAO!!!!' Thank you...thank you...I'm here until Monday...try the roast beef special.
  97. Robert Loblaw from Canada writes: Katherine R the slef confessed latte liberal.

    Read a bit Kate, and you'll soon discover that Mulroney's deficits were incurred covering interest on the massive debt that Trudeau brought upon the country. Little of his spending was on new programs. And his spending as a percentage of GDP was well below that of Turdeaus govts.

    Chretien's surpluses were earned off the GST - a conservative policy which he promised to repeal, NAFTA, a conservative trade agreement which he promised to repeal, the downloading of health care expenses to the provinces, and a booming economy in the U.S. driven by high tech (little of which drives Canada's economy thanks to a lack of initiative over 13 years of Leberal govts.

    You may in fact want to take some business courses, but you definitely need to educate yourself, unless of course you already know the truth and are just prone to revisionist history and latte liberal spin.
  98. Mr X from Canada writes: M Jones from Canada writes: Does anyone remember Mulroney's massive budget deficits and Chretien's huge surpluses?
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chretien was just in the right place at the right time.

    - Globally low interest rates allowed refinancing of maturing debt at globally low rates.
    - Cutting tranfer payments allowed Chretien to look like a star while the provices had to scramble and makes cuts to balance the federal deficit.
    - The rise of china and demand for resources such as oil and gas, mining, etc boosted the economy.

    None of the factors were Chretiens doing in fact the US Government also had a surplus.
  99. Bosco . from Toronto, Canada writes: This just in, the Toronto Star is reporting that Dion is now saying 'The Green Shift' is not a major plank in his platorm. I thought it was the only plant in his platorm.

    http://www.thestar.com/FederalElection/article/502283
  100. Stan L from Canada writes: Martha K. from Canada writes: Good luck voting for this party if you really think they are going to find a way to get 4 billion dollars to distribute to keep these promises. Only way is to raise the GST again - by 2%, only they are not saying that are they?

    OK then, he is not saying that you are assuming he will....fine....so moving on, how is Harper going to pay for his promises? I mean I know he is rehashing old promises as new ones and to be fair has thrown in a few promises as well....but even still....how is he going to pay for them? Will de-regulation of the meat industry, Canada Post