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Splitting the centre-left vote

Globe and Mail Update

Latest comment posted at 1:27 PM EST 23/09/08

Six prominent political strategists expound on how the left can deal with this — and how the Tories can exploit it. ...Read the full article

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  1. Mr. Justice from Anytown, Canada writes: Like it or not, the NDP does have positions on issues.

    Like it or not, the Liberal Party doesn't.
  2. KT Ocean from Canada writes: Mr. Justice, do you mean like the NDP opposes a carbon tax whereas the Liberal Party wants us to start NOW by implementing a carbon tax and working towards establishing a cap and trade (which is more complex, takes longer, and doesn't capture as much emissions).

    Dion stands up for the environment whereas Layton only pretends to.
  3. Catherine Wilkie from Canada writes: Strategists are not improving the campaign coverage. Read Tim Powers. Such vitriole and anger.
    Canadians are tuning out.
    There's only so much time in a busy day and this stuff is getting old very quickly.
    Respect the electorate. Speak the truth. Follow your principles.
    And, respectfully, ignore the pundits and much of the media.
    They are serving their own masters.
    Just like the Wall-Street boys and girls who lived the good life and now expect the hard-working middle class to bail them out.
  4. W MacKay from Canada writes: The characterization of the Liberal party as a left-wing one is a joke. The Liberals deserve to lose this election and be supplanted by the NDP. Why should Jack Layton make any deals with a Liberal Party that has governed as a psuedo-right wing party with flexible principles under the Chretien-Martin regime in order to embrace what is now a Green-lite party? Don't worry though, the Liberals will retain most of their seats and go right back to supporting the new Conservative minority.
  5. Conservative for lower taxes, cheaper gas, less government from Canada writes: I think the left is shrinking in Canada. The old scare tatics don't work anymore. The $40 million missing and unaccounted for from the Liberal sponsorship program has yet to be dealt with by Dion, who was in cabinet at the time. People are fed up with more taxes, especially a carbon tax that would cripple the economy.
  6. Brenton E. from Canada writes: we have a system that allows a minority public support to be reflected in Parliament as a majority. We require electoral reform with some form of proportional representation in play. We must never have a riding represented in parliament without the consent of 50% plus 1 votes. We need set terms so that we do not have elections based on the whims of a politician and we need set election dates.
  7. john may from writes: Many long time Liberals are mad as hell about Dion and those around him, so mad that they are out supporting and working for Conservative candidates to ensure a defeat for Dion and time for their party to rebuild. Those Liberals are not voting NDP. Apparently the press has not yet discovered exactly what is going on ouside the campaign planes. Layton is telling Liberals that left wing policies are found in his party, and telling voters he intends to gain 2nd place.
  8. Brenton E. from Canada writes: Conservative for lower taxes, cheaper gas, less government from Canada writes: I think the left is shrinking in Canada. The old scare tatics don't work anymore. The $40 million missing and unaccounted for from the Liberal sponsorship program has yet to be dealt with by Dion, who was in cabinet at the time. People are fed up with more taxes, especially a carbon tax that would cripple the economy.
    -----------------
    as usual the conservatives have used history, distorted that history and try to apply it against Dion. The left is not shrinking, it is broken up more than ever but the numbers are not decreasing. The history lesson, 40 million okay, lets set the record straight if you will stop associating Dion with ADSCAM then I will stop associating Harper with Mulroney's gift of 200 million to one of his Montreal billionaire buddies. The one he allowed to tranfer 2 billion dollars to an American bank with not 1 cent of tranfer tax applied.
  9. Gary Dale from Toronto, Canada writes: The Liberals and Greens are both right wing parties. Look at what the Liberals have done in office, and take a good look at the Green's platform if you don't believe me. The NDP is Canada's only centre-left party (I'd count the Bloc as a Quebec party, not a Canadian one).

    The NDP's cap and trade proposal is the only system that has been shown to get results and which actually puts limits (caps) on greenhouse gas emissions. And it doesn't raise prices. The carbon tax just punishes the poor with extra taxes while rewarding the well off with income tax cuts. Analysts agree that for a carbon tax to actually work, it would have to be a lot higher than what Dion is proposing. It's just more Liberal smoke and mirrors, which is why Dion opposed it before he became co-opted by the Liberal establishment.

    The riding system is part of the problem. You can't guarantee a clear majority in riding if there are more than two candidates unless you give some people their second or third choice. Proportional representation works better because it gives everyone their first choice and because it reflects the will of the voters across a geographic range. We need electoral reform to stop getting governments that the majority of people didn't vote for.
  10. William Vander Wilp from Kingston, Canada writes: The sort of situation described in this article is exactly why I DON'T support proportional representation in Canada. With our current arrangement we tend to oscillate between a centre-right and a centre-left government with, overall, somewhat more time spent under a centre-left government. Given that, broadly speaking over time, Canadians tend to vote about 40% Conservative and 60% Liberal/NDP our government, over time, gives everyone a chance to be in charge. Under a PR voting regime we would be stuck with a centre-left coalition forever (or at least until the 30% of more extreme left wing voters broke their habit of unthinking hatred toward anything even small c conservative). Rather than react with angst at the thought of a Conservative government, the collective left should realize that the current situation merely represents the pendulum swinging to the right and that, one day, it will swing back again.
  11. SusieQ 321 from NoWhereVille, Canada writes: It is what it is... the libbies made a mistake in electing Dion the conservatives know how that feels they choose Kim Campbell once upon a time... both very smart people both unwilling to lead and listen to their advisor's...
    So the questions remain who wins if an alliance is formed, who is the leader? Whose platforms gain precedence? Do the liberal form friendships with the union gods? There is a reason that NDPers don't vote liberal and Liberal's don't vote NDP.. it could be funny to see Dion stumble through the English and Layton sell the liberals on his platform the same way a used car dealer sells you a lemon.
  12. Gary Dale from Toronto, Canada writes: to William Vander Wilp: Actually, your analysis is badly flawed. Under proportional representation, a centrist party with enough votes would be able to choose between partnering with a right wing or left wing party to form a government.

    Or, as is currently the case in Germany, the right wing and left wing parties can form a coalition that excludes the centrist party. They say politics make strange bedfellows.

    Moreover, the extreme right might decide to break away from the moderate right, allowing the moderate right to appeal to a broader base, increasing their chance of electoral success.

    Finally, because seat counts don't change radically after a small change in voter preference, you're more likely to avoid the policy lurches we see in countries that don't use proportional representation.
  13. Counterspinner tells the truth from Canada writes: First let's get this correct. They are splitting the left and far left vote. The only party that is centrist is the Conservatives under Harper.
  14. Tim London from Canada writes: KT Ocean from Canada writes: Mr. Justice, do you mean like the NDP opposes a carbon tax whereas the Liberal Party wants us to start NOW by implementing a carbon tax and working towards establishing a cap and trade (which is more complex, takes longer, and doesn't capture as much emissions).

    Dion stands up for the environment whereas Layton only pretends to.

    **************************
    Kyoto anybody??
  15. James Cyr from Balmertown Ontario, Canada writes: I would agree with Copunterspinner's post of 10:24 am. Since the issue amongst the various leftist parties (Liberal, NDP, Green) is mainly about political power, they would try anything in order to obtain it. The end result may well be a drift by voters towards the centrist Conservative Party.
  16. Baked Pot8o from Canada writes: Have to disagree with Counter spinner.

    Harper is in no way shape or form even close to the centre. The libs lean to the right, not to the left, given the Neo-Liberal economic policies of the past decade plus, they are effectively in the 'Progressive' or right of centre. The government of the day is still nothing but reformers and alliance members in sheeps clothing, ie the right wing.

    I find it hilarious that those on the right are trying to shift the centre to the right along w/ Harper, while decrying the infulence of the "Left" in the media, in political circles and so forth. Of course, shifting the centre has been Harpey's stated purpose since entering politics.

    The Green's as pointed out, aren't left at all... economically they are quite conservative and are far on the right.

    Im curious if anybody cares to comment on the fact that with the consolidation of the votes on the right, that the left will have to follow suit to be able to match the votes; effectively moving us closer to the 2 party system in the states.
  17. William Vander Wilp from Kingston, Canada writes: Gary Dale,

    Thank you for your measured response. There are two points I would raise in return:

    First, while in theory a centrist party could align with either side, in Canada we don't really have that option. We have one rightish party, one leftish party, and one left-wing party (ignoring the Bloc and the Greens). Possibly over a long period of time under PR we would see an evolution that would spread the parties across the spectrum and allow more interesting options. In the "short" term (at least 20 years) we would effectively have a permanent Liberal-NDP coalition with occasional input from the Greens. Momentum from prevailing attitudes would ensure this over that time frame. (You hear people saying "anyone but Harper" but never "anyone but Layton". Partly this is because Layton isn't a realistic option for PM but also it's an attitude of the left that Conservative = bad. The far left knows that the Liberals are also leftist.)

    Second, while policy "lurches", as you describe them, are sometimes uncomfortable, they are also sometimes necessary to correct a system that has gone badly out of kilter. I don't want a system that makes large scale changes effectively impossible.
  18. c rob from Halifax, Canada writes: "over the past two decades Canadians have been moving to the centre right"

    No, Boomers have. There is a difference.
  19. Michael Sharp from Wsanec BC, Canada writes:

    Blue Grits do NOT swing left.
  20. Chris Halford from Ottawa, Canada writes: Mr. Justice from Anytown, Canada writes: Like it or not, the NDP does have positions on issues.

    Like it or not, the Liberal Party doesn't.
    ------------------------
    Jack Layton knows that he will not head the next government and even if he did, he has no expereince to tell him that he has to be somewhat careful about what he says. The Liberals have had a lot of experience in government and they are aware that they would have to tailor policies to suit the politican and economic environment from time to time. Harper won't tailore policies to anything, he will keep barrelling along the highway to privatisation, breaking confederation, freeing the markets and throwing people in jail - no matter what happens as a result of those policies. Mike Harris a few years later but destroying a country instead of a province this time.
  21. Hairy Wrangellian from Saltspring Island, Canada writes: We need proportional representation in this country. If it results in minority governments and more fractious politics in the short term, maybe our politicians can learn to compromise in coalitions.

    As it is, we vote as much for the party that we think has the best chance of defeating the party we hate, not the candidate and party that best represents our views.

    In a winner-take-all system, if you don't vote for the winner, you're not represented. Is it any wonder we have such poor voter turnout on election day? Many people feel like none of the candidates represent their views, or their preferred candidate has no chance of winning, so they don't bother.
  22. Michael Sharp from Wsanec BC, Canada writes:

    An NDP/LPC alliance will certainly result in a CPC/Blue Grit alliance.
    Which is to say, a resounding CPC majority.

    Jack.
    Thick like brick.
  23. Brenton E. from Canada writes: Baked Pot8o from Canada writes: effectively moving us closer to the 2 party system in the states.
    -------------
    what about a european model, combining proportional representation with a "first past the post" balloting system?
  24. Chris Halford from Ottawa, Canada writes: William Vander Wilp from Kingston - the CPC is on the far right; the Liberals and Greens are in the Centre and the NDP and Bloc are left of centre. The CPC is a far-right, neo-conservative party, it has nothing to do with the progressive conservatives whom I would describe as right of center. All this stupid talk about "lefties" is due to the fact that CPC supporters are viewing the stage from so far off to the right that everything else appears more left wing than it truly is.

    c rob from Halifax, Canada writes: "over the past two decades Canadians have been moving to the centre right"

    No, Boomers have. There is a difference.
    -----------------------
    I agree with that but, as others have pointed out in comments on older articles, boomers have moved to the right fiscally but not socially. What scares me, a Boomer, about Harper is his social policies and his hatred of anything that looks like Art or a social safety net.
  25. Norm Albert from Canada writes: Essentially this means 65% of Canadians can and will vote ABC and still be faced with a right wing Harper government. Got to love the system that virtually guarantees the system continues.
    The balance on the left of center delivers a win for right wing politics.
    It would be laughable if not so tragic.
    Simple math: 17.5% support of eligible voters controls our Democracy.
    35% of the 50% that vote. My My My how depressing.
  26. Chris Halford from Ottawa, Canada writes: Michael Sharp from Wsanec BC, Canada writes:

    An NDP/LPC alliance will certainly result in a CPC/Blue Grit alliance.
    Which is to say, a resounding CPC majority.
    ----------------
    The CPC is way too far right for even right-wing Liberals (Emerson excepted). Certainly there are not enough who would make the move to result in what you are talking about.

    Jack.
    Thick like brick.
    _____________________
    Are you referring to yourself? Certainly you appear to have sense of decency and that is often found in people of limited intellect - they are good at insulting others.
  27. Gary Dale from Toronto, Canada writes: to William Vander Wilp from Kingston: I'd never call the Liberals a centre-left party. That's an image they like to project, but if you look at what they do when in power, they are more centre-right or even just right-wing. For example, they signed Kyoto but did nothing to implement it. They changed our role in Afghanistan to the current combat role and voted to extend it first to 2009 and now to 2011. Many of them voted with the Conservatives to re-open the same-sex marriage debate. They gutted the employment insurance program and cut transfers to the provinces. I could go on....

    The reason the Liberals and Conservatives don't talk alliance is mainly because of our first past the post system. Both parties believe they have a chance to gain a "majority government" if they can out-campaign the other. They both highlight the others failings hoping to get voters from the other parties to support them out of fear or loathing.

    Under PR, the dynamic would be totally different. You'd be running on what you accomplished or hope to accomplish. You can't scare people into voting for you. As such, the natural Liberal-Conservative alliance would probably end up running the country most of the time. The only way that would change is if the NDP managed to lure the left wing of the Liberal party and perhaps some Red Tories over to it.

    Which is not to say that the NDP would be shut out entirely. They'd continue to get some non-confidence legislation passed and one other big parties might try to partner with it from time to time just to preserve the distinction between the Liberals and Conservatives.
  28. Trillian Rand from Canada writes: Have the terms 'right' and 'left' become so vague that they have no meaning? Does the average voter really understand that his choice is left-of-centre, far-right, centrist with a left bias or middle-of-the-road but tending to the right? Or does the average voter simply say, "So-and-so seems competent. I'll vote for him/her."

    While it is true parties allow themselves to take on media-assigned labels, one wonders if Ms May, for instance, truly believes hers is a party of the left. Could it be that the 'left' sees an opportunity from flying that flag because many label Mr Harper as 'far right' and further distance gives the impression of beauty?

    The only way for any party to succeed is to attract the large body of voters who want to believe they are electing the most competent people, not those of one political stripe or another. So far we have not seen any leader stand up and say, "Vote for me because I'm the best manager, have the best policies and have the best team behind me to implement them."

    The current popularity contest might suit the interests of the parties and the media, but it ill-suits the average voter. But then, with voter apathy running at all-time highs, perhaps it is the best we deserve.
  29. bill johnson from Quebec, Canada writes: Dion has 3 problems:

    1) no credibility following his vote-free performance in Parliament;
    2) he swung the party to the far left, making the dippers look centrist;
    3) he's incomprehensible.
  30. Peter M from Canada writes: Most of the "analyses" in this article aren't very informative, being mostly partisan fluff. And I don't understand why anybody would care what Scott Reid thinks about politics. As one of the chief architects of the pathetic 2004 and disastrously awful 2006 Liberal campaigns, he is hardly an established authority on electoral strategy. Most of this sort of scribbling misses the point on how Liberal victories have been won since 1867. They are, when successful, a party of the opportuistic middle. They are not a left wing party, except as compared to the Conservatives (what party in Canada isn't, by that standard), or a right wing party (except when the electoral landscape has shifted that way). Chretien got it, Martin did not. Chretien won three majorities. Martin humiliated himself - and trashed the Liberal machine in the process. At the moment the Liberal Party is saddled with leadership that apparently understands almost nothing of this. The left and right are relatively small in Canada. The middle is very big, and polarized politics have not worked well here over the long haul. That may be changing. If it is, the political ineptitude that has become the Liberal norm since 2004 has much to do with it. Why vote for the party of the middle when it is transparently run by ditherers, windbags and carpetbaggers?
  31. Hairy Wrangellian from Saltspring Island, Canada writes: Gary Dale: Well said.
  32. William Vander Wilp from Kingston, Canada writes: Chris Halford,

    I suspect we may have to agree to disagree about the spectrum. From my perspective, the Conservatives are right-centre, not far right. The Liberals under Dion are left-centre (although they have been centre at times under other leaders) and the NDP is left. To paraphrase you "All this talk about "the right" is due to the fact that NDP supporters are viewing the stage from so far off to the left that everything else appears more right wing than it truly is."

    Conservatives (small or large C) do not hate the arts or social safety nets. In fact, as a small c conservative, I enjoy the arts and am proud of our social safety nets. The difference between myself and a leftist voter is that I believe the safety net should be there for those who truly need it, not for everyone who doesn't happen to have as much as everyone else. You need help when you don't have enough to eat or can't keep a roof over your head, not when you can't afford steak or have to rent instead of own. The right wants the government to help those truly disadvantaged and otherwise stay mostly out of the way. The left wants the government to ensure that, no matter what choices an individual makes, he or she will never have the freedom to fail.
  33. June from Western Canada from Canada writes: The main problem is the majority of seats in two provinces with two major cities which dictates the outcome of any election. For the Conservative voice to be hear at all, is a miracle and is 'scary' or 'foreign' to urban people as they feel their issues are the only ones to address. To have western, northern, Atlantic, rural, small and big business, economy for the whole country including Quebec, is a breath of fresh air for this country. Breath deep, think a little deeper and go for four more years to entrench the fixed election dates, Provincial responsibilities increased, improved support for our military, and safety on our streets. It is important to draw this country together...not to divide East and West. And Harper rated 2nd on International Poll of Leaders? Not bad for his first foray onto the World stage. Think about that!!!! and compare to starting with a new leader, untested anywhere.........
  34. Wayne Young from Victoria BC, Canada writes: I agree with June! I would also add that much like the current state of the so called left in canada us right-winger evil meanie neo-cons etc. etc etc . had our day when we went through melt down and finally united and came back and now we are witness to the left's turn. It would not suprise me in the least to se a coalition forming on the left it would be the smartest thing they ever did and is exactly why it won't happen. In the meantime it's great to be a conservative and I really feel for all those frustrated left wing nuts out there. See you at the polls!
  35. Richard Keefer from Omemee, writes: Here are a couple of ways DIon et al can connect with voters. DR. DION, ARE YOU LISTENING? At the same time, slowing Harper's "Schlieffen Plan" split of the center-left.

    The problem is to be seen as connecting with today issues in real terms, and offering real closures. Then on the future ones, BE VISCERAL INSTEAD OF INTELLECTUALIZING! Yes, show people there's a team. Today's team solutions will look towards the future. But approach the huge future problems with humility, signalling you won't be afraid to admit error and make mid-course corrections:

    1. TODAY EXAMPLE - FOOD SAFETY; What is the point of having laws if corporate offenders go unpunished? Harper is soft on corporate crime, and soft on corporate enforcement. Dion will enforce existing laws and see that corporate offenders go to jail. Dion will bring in tough new laws to protect the safety of Canadians. (same approach for Competition Act and oil price-fixing).

    2. FUTURE AND GREEN ISSUES: Lots of intellectualizing, but if you want to talk future, bring kids into it. Harper-cons are about greed, grabs, and "want it now". Show pictures of wilderness and kids. You're about making sure it's still there when kids and grandchildren grow up. Oil will still be there, not blown through U.S. exhaust pipes. Juxtapose pictures, say of pulp & paper/sewage effluent or smokestacks, showing this is what Harper is all about.
  36. Hairy Wrangellian from Saltspring Island, Canada writes: June from Western Canada: I'm not urban, my family's been western Canadian for five generations - and I find Harper scary.

    Regarding your arguments in favour of a Conservative government:

    1. Fixed election dates? Didn't we already have that, until Harper decided he didn't want it?
    2. Improved support for our military? Like sending them off to stupid, futile American wars? Harper actually wanted Canada to support the Americans in Iraq - with exceptions like Michael Sharp, few think that would have been a good idea.
    3. Safety on our streets? Right, let's get rid of the gun registry because it cost too much.
    4. Divisiveness? The only people Harper has been able to unite are the Progressive Conservatives and the Reform/Alliance, and there seem to be quite a few former PC'ers that aren't too happy with that arrangement.
    5. International Poll of Leaders - so who was being polled?
  37. Toby Maloney from Winnipeg, Canada writes: Jack Layton is salivating because if the Liberals had their act together, many NDP'ers would consider voting Liberal in order to stop the Conservatives, and thinks rational Liberals have to come his way. But he's delusional if he thinks significant numbers of Liberals will think likewise.

    Its a shaky strategy to jockey for the middle with the Liberals, born out of hubris rather than sense. The NDP is risking being irrelevant to its core supporters in pursuit of some other voter who probably doesn't exist, kind of like the NHL expanding into Nascar country. That core support might decide to stay home instead of voting or worse instead of running the phones at the union centre.
  38. Andre Poirier from Canada writes: We need a new righter than right party.

    One that believes in more tax cuts than these left wign conservatives.

    We need 5 cents off the diesel, what's up with 2 cents. We need the school boards to be funded through the generous contributions of the private sector, or better yet privatized. We don't need left wing government like conservatives of Stephen Harper.

    We need to found a new party that says no to government and yes to industry, what only 14 years old for adult treatment. Heck any 2 year old that punches another should be tried in a court and understand the seriousness of his actions. Vote for the NRP, New Right Party.
  39. Hairy Wrangellian from Saltspring Island, Canada writes: Toby Maloney from Winnipeg, Canada wrote: Jack Layton is salivating because if the Liberals had their act together, many NDP'ers would consider voting Liberal in order to stop the Conservatives...

    You're right on that Toby. Now would be a very good time for the Liberals to reverse their opposition to proportional representation and try to win over some NDP and Green voters that are willing to vote strategically to defeat Harper in return for future electoral reform.

    Apparently Dion is favourable to the idea, but so far nothing out of Liberals on it - are they saving this for late in the campaign?
  40. Jim Q from Halifax, Canada writes: I have to say that I agree with Mike Sharp.

    As a Blue Liberal/Red Tory I'd rather see Preston Manning destroy the government than have Jack Layton turn it into a monster.

    The problem is that the Liberals message has lost the urgency of NOW and its focus on individuals. People vote selfishly, no matter what they CLAIM they vote for.

    That's why Canada has no military, a poor environment and why ''idealist'' students always vote for the party with the highest grants policies.

    The split will resolve eventually in a Liberal resurgence, because the NDP is too ideological and offer meaningful solutions without exacting a prohibitive toll on ordinary Canadians. The costs never really balances. Whether this election, or five or even nine years from now, CPC policy will have the same effect here its Republican cousin had in the states, and the Liberal moderate message will regain the urgency of now.
  41. Fall of Discontent from Ottawa, Canada writes: Hairy Wrangellian wrote.. 1. Fixed election dates? Didn't we already have that, until Harper decided he didn't want it? 2. Improved support for our military? Like sending them off to stupid, futile American wars? Harper actually wanted Canada to support the Americans in Iraq - with exceptions like Michael Sharp, few think that would have been a good idea. 3. Safety on our streets? Right, let's get rid of the gun registry because it cost too much. 4. Divisiveness? The only people Harper has been able to unite are the Progressive Conservatives and the Reform/Alliance, and there seem to be quite a few former PC'ers that aren't too happy with that arrangement. 5. International Poll of Leaders - so who was being polled? _____________________________________________________ 1. Yes, fixed election dates are great IF you have a majority government. But, if the case is you minority gov't are continually threatened with an election everyday by Stephane Dion and blocked by a Liberal Senate it is incredibly hard to accomplish the wishes of any Cdn. 2. Liberal Chretien sent Cdn troops to Afghanistan for GW Bush, without consulting any Canadian electorate. 3. Gun Registry with the (quote) cost of "$2 million" which turned out to be $2 BILLION and is ineffective and tramples the privacy rights of Canadians. The gun registry allows the police to enter ANY home which is suspected of not properly storing firearms (regardless of whether they have one or not!). 4. Chretien stoked the Bloc Quebecois for 12 years! And the west against the rest of Canada... that is divisive politics. Life is always so pretty with those rose-coloured glasses Hairy. Did Dion give them to you?
  42. B.C. Centrist from Canada writes: Harper's party moving toward the middle? What a load of crap that is. His party has a lock on the business community from self employed, small business to big business, however still needs a piece of the middle class wage earners' vote and the Quebec vote, thus his makeover team has transformed him into a soft smiling, humble family man who understands the struggle for those living from paycheck to paycheck. Gone for now are the vitreous, uncontrolled attacks against anyone who does not adhere to his extreme right wing ideology. His party is far enough to the right now to leave ample room for a rebirth of the Progressive Conservative party, unless the Liberals gets back to where they were with Paul Martin at the helm.
  43. John Smith from SUPPORT ONT BILL 93, Canada writes: I have to laugh at this "LPT Team" concept that was invented to save their political fortunes. Team is just another way of the LPT telling Canada that they don't like Dion either and won't give him too much power. Look who's on the "Team", a guy who ruined Ontario and a far right-wing ex-pat who returned to Canada because he's a political opportunist.

    The LPT are afraid of the GP. Enidence is in Marg Wente's column and appearance on the Duffy show yesterday. She basically called the GP frauds and we all know the G&M /CTV is in the tank for the LPT.

    The LPT moved to the left because they thought Canadians are stupid and will eat up any dribble they throw at us. Now the LPT have become just another fringe party with no money and no policies that Canada wants to embrace.
  44. Gary Dale from Toronto, Canada writes: Fierce partisanship does seem to rule the day on this list. However, I have to disagree with it. The CPC is not going to destroy Canada if they get a majority. We had back to back Mulroney majorities and survived after all.

    The NDP, if they happened to form the government, isn't going to destroy it either. European countries have elected Social Democratic governments many times and prospered under them. Saskatchewan thrived under Tommy Douglas and Manitoba's doing quite well under their current NDP government.

    Dion may not be a great leader but we survived Joe Clark and Paul Martin's governments.

    B.C. survived Liberal, NDP and Social Credit governments.

    This election don't vote out of fear or hatred. Pick the party you think best represents your interests and vote for it.
  45. Michael Sharp from Wsanec BC, Canada writes:

    Love the photo.

    No matter how hard Dion flaps those things, he'll never get off the ground.
  46. Hairy Wrangellian from Saltspring Island, Canada writes: Fall of Discontent:
    1. If Harper's idea of a compromise wasn't having everybody doing things his way, we would have had a functional Parliament - the other parties are able to work with each other, why not the Conservatives?
    2. Yes, the Liberals sent troops to Afghanistan, and they DIDN'T send them to Iraq - Harper called then Defence Minister John McCallum an idiot for not supporting the Americans in Iraq - there are lots of Conservatives with the courage to admit that it was a stupid position, are you one of them?
    3. So it's up to $2 billion now for the gun registry? So now that we've spent the money, we should scrap it? I hadn't heard about the ability of the police to enter any home without a warrant, but if it's true, I worry more about that under a Conservative government.
    4. Chretien stoked the Bloc, but he didn't argue for a different deal for every province in Confederation. And who stokes the 'west against Canada' divide more than the Alberta Conservatives?

    Rose-coloured glasses? How so? From Dion? I'm not even a Liberal?
  47. James Cyr from Balmertown Ontario, Canada writes: I perceive the Conservatives to be slightly right-of-centre on the politico-philosophical spectrum. The Liberals are slightly left-of-centre (or right of centre--wherever they think they can get the most votes). The problem is that the "centre" is getting narrower and narrower all the time......
  48. s c from Canada writes: I don't think that Harper has moved the conservatives toward the middle, nor has he moved them far right - they remain just right of centre.

    I do think that the current liberal policies put forward by Dion are moving the liberals further left. This only gives the appearance that the conservatives are moving towards the centre.

    I would lke to vote for Dion as I have traditionally been liberal, like what I have seen from Dion as an individiual who seems to have high integrety. The problem is that I like very few of his policies.

    Keep catastrophic medical coverage and aid to university students. Get rid of national day care, green shift and huge infrastructure spending. I like the idea of spending some money on green initiatives but do not like the tax redistribution angle as it seems more like a wealth transfer from middle/high income to low income than a green environment objective.

    I actually think that the green party has better policy ideas than either liberals or the ndp. Let's see a conservative minorty with green in opposition - will never happen but looks good on paper.
  49. Richard Keefer from Omemee, writes: Hairy Wrangellian, Got one generation on you, but in ON. Your comments make a great deal of sense.

    For Westerners, Harper must look like the worst kind of carpetbagger (came from Toronto, just as "Stock" was Barrie, ON). Trash a beautiful province, take oil that should be a legacy for future generations, and pump it south as fast as you can. To hell with farmers, whose livestock is boycotted by the U.S. so Harper can subsidize his food industry pals with giveaway prices. To hell with forest products.

    Harper is a man in too much of a hurry. Do we really want to find out why?
  50. Hugo Hall from Calgary, Canada writes: Folks, to suggest that the Liberals, NDP and Green party are all "centre left" is a fallacy. A quick look at the NDP and Green party platforms clearly illustrates that these are not "centre-left" parties. The NDP in particular, is most definitely a left-wing party. the only major parties that are anything close to centrist are the centre-left Liberals, and the centre-right Conservatives.
  51. And Staurt Margolan as 'Angel' from Canada writes: The NDP will never win, so their targeting of the Liberals would only throw the door open for the corporate fascists intent on turning this good country into a toxic dump and reduce us to economic serfdom. Pragmatism, not idealism, is needed at this point in our history. Do we need to go from bad to worse? And ironically, I will voting NDP mainly to keep a Conservative from taking the riding, due to the risk of splitting the vote by voting Green or Lib. as they don't have strong candidates in my riding. But the NDP does, and he seems to be a decent fellow, so there you go.
    Layton should work with the Liberals and Greens to form a coalition government (make re-opening Nafta as a condition. It's been more than decade since it was signed so it's due time to re-examine it), should the Cons win another minority government. The country can't take any more of this corporate pillaging.
  52. Merle Underwood from blue ridge, writes: c rob from Halifax, Canada writes: No, Boomers have. There is a difference. Exactly and well said. It's the boomers that are making the difference. We are looking at all party aspects and we are finding that you have to be fiscally responsible with the money and governing before you can have and support the left wing agenda. Take the daycare promise of both the Libs & NDPs are promising Canadians for instance. When and if this ever comes to existence, it would take a lot more money than it is said. The boomer generation have raised there children, put them thru the scholastic division, helped them out to find jobs, supplied them with go money and this is just naming a few things. This was done by hard work, initiative and persistence. This was done by the 90% of the population whom has payed more than their fair share of taxes. Now that the boomers are building up retirement money, the governments are inventing taxes to take it out of there pockets, as well as the new tax payers to fund these projects. We all know that what it takes for free enterprise to run a business and what it takes the government to run a business. Governments actions on running anything is superseded by getting some money to people whom are going to vote for them in future elections. The boomers are seeing thru their lies, misinformation and actually holding governments responsible for wasted money, country policy and world policies. This is the information age, as soon as they put out their policies it is related to anybody interested in reading and talking about it. Very few boomers can not operate a computer, they read the news as soon as it is put out there and talk about it. Look at every province that the Libs & NDPs have run and they have run continual deficits. That is not fiscally responsible with money management and that leaves somebody with experience that has controlled the debt and has give back money to all Canadians thru their income tax and GST cuts.
  53. Jack Robertson from Toronto, Canada writes: Just what is the 'centre-left' vote? Surely it doesn't include the Liberals! In almost every election, the Liberals have campaigned from the mushy 'left' but have governed from the right or at least right-of-centre whenever the public has been gullible enough to elect them. After all, it was the Liberals who committed Canadian troops to fight George Bush's losing war in Afghanistan. Perhaps this time the Liberal charade isn't working as well. The public isn't buying the 'revenue neutral' fib about the carbon tax no matter how the Liberals try to spin it. The Green Shift is being seen for what it is - a program that will result in a greater tax burden for the average Canadian. Like all consumption taxes, it will hit hardest the poor, the working class and lower middle-class Canadians - those who are least able to afford it. Given the Liberals' backtracking on other issues (e.g. NAFTA, GST), there is little reason to trust that they will return the carbon tax to the public by any means whatsoever. Regardless of what one thinks of Stephen Harper and the Conservatives, they are at least consistent. That, more than any split on the imaginary 'left', is why they are winning.
  54. And Staurt Margolan as 'Angel' from Canada writes: "The boomer generation have raised there children, put them thru the scholastic division, helped them out to find jobs, supplied them with go money and this is just naming a few things. This was done by hard work, initiative and persistence."

    They also benefited from a more generous EI program. And social programs and cheap tuitions that have since disappeared.
  55. Alan Pater from Vancouver, Canada writes: Liberals are not Left, they only appear that way because the Conservatives are so far off to the right. See http://www.politicalcompass.org/canada2008 for all the details.
  56. May Loo from Calgary, Canada writes: So the Reform/ Alliance/Conservative Party is now considered 'centrist' ? I guess that shows how far to the right some of the Canadian people have gone. Wasn't it former Ontario premier Mike Harris who did a similar con-job to Ontarians with his Common Sense revolution? And wasn't Jim Flaherty part of his government?
  57. P C from Canada writes: Hey Mr. Justice,

    What was Layton's position on the Kelowna Accord when he threw it under the bus, with his bff Stephen Harper?

    To paraphrase some dead communist, the NDP are selling the rope that the Conservatives will use to hang them.

    Jack Layton: Stephen Harper's "useful idiot."
  58. Dave Cefai from Toronto, Canada writes: I would like to add a few points to this conversation. I consider myself an Independant and have voted both Con and Lib in the past. I would like a proportionally representative gov't, even if it meant more minority gov'ts. I don't think they are a bad thing. I believe Universal Health Care was born out of a minority gov't. I am also tired of seeing the greens get more than 10% of the vote with not 1 member in parliament, while the bloc get 8% of the popular vote and have 48 seats. I don't necessarily agree that the liberals are really left, yes from a social policy perspective (pro choice, gay rights etc), but other than the whole ad-scam issue I felt they managed they country well while in power. They were the party that got us back to a balanced budget and they had 10 or more balanced budgets in a row, and this was before we had the huge oil revenues we do today. As well, I was never prouder of being a Canadian as when we told the US we were NOT going into Iraq with them. I can't say Harper would have made the same decision. While I am not a fan of Dion as a leader I do acknowledge he is a smart guy and I like his green shift policy. I find as a country we give lip service to the entire green movement. People are supportive up until the moment they have to pay for something or it impacts their life in "any" way. As for Harper, I actually liked his first year or so as a leader. Resolved the softwood lumber dispute, restablished relations with the US, etc. The last 18 mths has not been as impressive. In fact I would have rather seen him use the surplus to reduce income/payroll tax to drive more jobs, rather than use it to reduce the GST. Anyway, my 2 cents. As for this election, I am leaning towards the liberals for 2 reasons. 1) I like the green shift policy 2) Keep Harper from a majority. Also looking forward to learning more about the GREENs other than their environmental policies.

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