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Obama and McCain trade barbs in shadow of collapse

JOHN IBBITSON

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 1:50 AM EST 27/09/08

U.S. presidential rivals largely agree on bailout, saving sharpest blows for Iraq in their first television debate ...Read the full article

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  1. joe garcia from Canada writes: Ben, just like you don't have to go to Colombia to get weed, you don't have to go to Gitmo to get a Coiba Esplendido gigar - Manhattan NY has plenty cigars on the black market, although you'd be paying premium prices...
  2. He Shoots! He Scores! from Chicago, United States writes: Obama wins!
  3. Shades of Grey from Canada writes: I like both of these candidates and think they came off well. They're not the Bush cartel, and that's a good thing for the world.
  4. joe garcia from Canada writes: Who fared better in the first presidential debate?

    Sen. John McCain 27% 39860
    Sen. Barack Obama 67% 100540
    Neither 6% 8602
    Total Votes: 149002

    source= cnn.com
  5. globefan Eh from Canada writes: MCCain could not look Obama in the eye..how odd. Obama wins..
  6. Ben SGT/USMC from United States writes:

    I thought they both appeared pretty 'Presidential' And it was a pretty good show.
  7. He Shoots! He Scores! from Chicago, United States writes: Obama had the forward looking positions and ended up controlling the direction of conversation by the end. McCain is no slouch and gave a decent account of himself but Obama is on the next nevel. He is able to see a bigger tableau than the Republican candidate.
  8. joe garcia from Canada writes: cuban rhum is definitely overated - however their cigars are truly the best the world has to offer and no other can compete - it's the only thing they got that's truly number one.
  9. joe garcia from Canada writes: the debate was a tie -

    however given the state of affairs, increasing unemployment, foreclosures, economical crisis, tainted reputation overseas caused by 8 years of Republican-style war mongering, USA deserves a break, they need change, Obama is their obvious choice.
  10. joe garcia from Canada writes: good night America - take care Ben - I forgive you for calling me names... and do yourself a favour and vote for Obama - Florida is an important swing state.

    cheers.
  11. JXXXX BXXXX from Vancouver, Canada writes: As I review this debate, and watch it again...I wonder why McCain is this close to being a president. His time was long ago and I wouldn't vote for him then.
  12. Ben SGT/USMC from United States writes:

    I talked to two people today that I might consider to be rather expert on economics.

    And what they both said was not good.

    I am the most patriotic, 'flag-waving' American that you can find... but what I think I learned today staggered me.

    We're (The USA and perhaps some others) are in for an awful ride.
  13. He Shoots! He Scores! from Chicago, United States writes: Obama is looking better and better. I believe the US should be very proud that it can still produce men like Obama.
  14. Dr Demento from Winnipeg, Canada writes: They were both pretty lame. If this is the best the USA can do, it is no wonder that they have been governed by a disaster of a chimp for the past 8 years . . .
  15. He Shoots! He Scores! from Chicago, United States writes: McCain wouldn't look Obama in the eye.
  16. fibo nacci from toronto, Canada writes: McCain wouldn't look Obama in the eye? Does this mean that McCain still has a little bit of integrity left and can't beleive all the lies he is stating?
  17. joe garcia from Canada writes: http://www.flickr.com/photos/barackobamadotcom/2891789192/

    picture shows clearly how he refused to look at him in the eyes
  18. Bob McDonald from Canada writes: We (North Americans) are in for a rough ride due to the greedy behavior of Republican/Conservatives on Wall Street and in Ottawa. No doubt - you can read about it EVERYDAY.

    What should we, Cdn voters do about it? Well, voting Republican/Conservative seems like an endorsement of economic clumsiness . . . so . . . why not vote Democrat/Liberal and see if that pushes us AWAY from war in foriegn lands, bad debt in mortgage financing, gov't financial deficits, health care instability and interprovincial hatred. Seems a reasonable plan to me. What do you think?

    Oh, boy, see following a lot of NeoCon and occasionally Green rhetoric . . .
  19. joe garcia from Canada writes: http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/G/K/2/debate.jpg
  20. Doubting Thomas from Canada writes: McCain simply must not lie so much. The internet makes research so easy and so fast.

    ________________________________

    September 15, 2008 6:16 PM

    ABC News' Rachel Martin Reports: Former U.S.Secretary of State Henry Kissinger today told an audience in Washington, DC that the U.S. should negotiate with Iran 'without conditions' and that the next President should begin such negotiations at a high level.

    The former Nixon and Ford U.S. Secretary of State early in the year indicated his belief that the U.S. should hold direct talks with Iran when speaking to Bloomberg Television.
  21. Laurence Hallewell from Columbus OH, United States writes: Just as the US electorate is still too misogynist for Hilary to have been a viable Democratic candidate, so it is still too racist for Obama to win in November (a secret ballot allows us all to keep our true beliefs to ourselves till we get into the poling booth).
    My forecast: McCane is so amazed by the size of his victory, his emotional overload gives him a fatal heart attack and we have Sally the Appalling in the White House till 2016.
  22. Doubting Thomas from Canada writes: And since April of this year, McShame has missed 109 of the 110 votes taken.
  23. Mary Smith from United States writes:

    Doubting Thomas

    Wrong again.

    http:www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/09/twsexclusivekissinger_unhapp.asp
  24. Bob McDonald from Canada writes: Obama had a lot of ammo that he didn't use. Dems and Liberals alike are too rational (read: scared) to attack with emotion and courage and self-righteousness. So . . . they often lose.

    Dion is as good as gone because he doesn't scream and SHOUT. Gore and Kerry also lost because they didn't emote LOUDLY. Rednecks don't understand candidates that just . . . talk. Accusers, screamers, loud-mouths, finger-pointers win a significant number of undecided voters just because they appear empassioned. Obama could have sunk McCain in the debate and Dion could demolish Harper if only they DARED to YELL.

    Politics is not for academics - it's for courageous LEADERS who have the passion and the out-front courage to blast it into the media-sphere.

    Two North American national elections and the only ones shouting are David Letterman and Fox News. The status quo is inevitable. Snore!
  25. Cheeky Weatherman from Ottawa, Canada writes: Canadians should stop trying to link Stephen Harper and the Conservative Party of Canada with the very stupid American Republicans. Canada is a sovereign nation distinct and separate from America.

    The Wall Street 'crash' was an inevitable result of American fiscal malfeasance and PURE greed and avarice - and it will affect the ENTIRE global economy in most respects due to the fact that for the past 6 decades America has insinuated itself into the fabric of every nation that inhabits the planet.
  26. Sam . from Canada writes: Doubting Thomas from Canada writes: McCain simply must not lie so much. The internet makes research so easy and so fast. ______________________________________ I don't know why I bother. This is so easy. DT.....go to CNN and go through the fact check....also...put down that wine and listen...Kissinger and McCain both talk about no President to President/Leader talks.....Obama only changed his 'unconditional' statement to 'no preconditions' in order to garner votes lately....his. original statements were a lot clearer. 'What is the difference between Obama and Osama...just a little b-s'...thought it was cute.
  27. Cam from Border City from Canada writes: I loved how Bill Bennett said that McCain was 'masterful' because he named all of the countries he had been to. Ummm...so what?
    I felt as many people I have talked to...(hmmm...maybe I should list them all and seem masterful....) that McCain kept falling back to his war experiences and his 'back in the day' references. Again...so what? That was then and this is now. I felt Obama handled the debate better than McCain...and I disagree that just because you can make a list of places you visited, that it makes you 'masterful'.
  28. Canadian Abroad from London, United Kingdom writes: Mary Smith from United States,

    I tried your link and it doesn't work. Even if it did it was to a Blog, where as doubting Thomas' was from ABC News. I tink that matters.

    This is the second time I've seen you post a dead link. I'm starting to think you just hoped people wouldn't check it and assume Kissinger didn't say the US should talk to Leaders with out conditions. An argument Obama made and is being attacked on.

    Could you please check your link and give one that works.
  29. Cam from Border City from Canada writes: CNN fact-checked Kissenger's statement...played the clip. He did say 'without condition' and did say start at a higher level...suggesting at least the Secretary of State level.

    Mary is a true Republican 'spinmeister'...take a statement and event and make it toe the republican line. It's shameless.
  30. CallofDuty . from Toronto, Canada writes: Did anybody catch the part when McCain said he supported all these wars...but he almost said Somalia, but quickly changed that and moved on?

    Obama FTW.
  31. Cam from Border City from Canada writes: From Kissinger's very lips:

    'Well, I am in favor of negotiating with Iran...I actually have preferred doing it at the secretary of state level ... I do not believe that we can make conditions for the opening of negotiations.'
  32. Catherine S. from Canada writes: Obama was not as smooth during the debate as he is during his pretty speeches. Obama is not that sure on his feet. Obama stumbled and was visible derailed. Obama also agreed with McCain many times.

    So it confirms for me that Obama is someone's marketing product. Nicely packaged and has the ability to deliver his speeches. Just basically a pretty sock pocket for someone.
  33. Cam from Border City from Canada writes: Catherine... Of course Obama agreed with what McCain said...because...They agreed! You don't take a different and opposite view if that is not your belief! I think it spoke to the possibility of bipartisanship. To disagree just for the sake of disagreeing is stupid.
    As agreed by both Republican and Democratic observers...there were no serious gaffes by either candidate.
    What did stand out, though, was McCain's PAST experience...distant past. He clung to his Vietnam experience and the Reagan days...He represents the past. Obama was a child at that time. It would be silly to hold that against Obama. Obama represents the 21st century....and McCain represents the 20th century. Those days have passed. Are you related to Mary?
  34. Sarah Bee from Canada writes: Obama handed McCain his a$$!

    With French fried potatoes.

    Not 'Freedom fried potatoes'.
  35. Jake ---- from Canada writes: Why Doesn't Obama Bring up Keating 5 in this debate. He should of closed with that arrgument, every American we be reserching it right now. Then people would know who the real McCain is.
  36. D L from British Columbia, Canada writes: This was a no contest from my bias viewpoint. Obama was respectful and made his points without sounding like a grumpy old fool. McCain didn't offer anything new, just more of the same. If McCain wins the White House it sure shines a light on the level of racism in the United States. Experience doesn't mean anything when the policies and ideas are wrong. Obama has shown that he will respect the other leaders throughout the world; and in turn, the US might, just maybe, get back some credibility. Obama was completely right in saying that the US is not the 'light on the top of the hill' that it used to be. Now the media is saying that those comments make him unpatriotic, give me a break. Saying that Russia and Georgia had to show mutual restraint is completely appropriate seeing at Georgia started the conflict. I am Canadian born and raised; but have US citizenship through my mom and I was proud to cast my absentee ballot for Obama. That is probably first time ever that I have put US citizenship and proud in the same sentence without the word 'not'. Vote Obama.
  37. Bobby the K from Bogarttown, Canada writes:

    Mary Smith from United States:

    I remember a little while ago you rebuked me for using information from the Daily Show as a source.
    You said it was a 'freaking' entertainment/comedy show.
    Which is a valid point.
    But, they are also news junkies and give us facts, or set ups for their humour.

    And it is from this show that I learnt (and I don't know any other media outlet reporting this) that this $700 billion bailout is to be handed over to the people who created the problem with no strings attached. No one is allowed to ask what is being done with the money, you can't ask where it goes or why.
    Not now. Not ever.

    This clip works best in IE.

    http://tinyurl.com/4fjs25

    Don't those kind of conditions make things stink for you? Do you support this? If so, Why?
  38. A Canadian from Cole Harbour, Canada writes: Catherine S. from Canada writes: Obama was not as smooth during the debate as he is during his pretty speeches. Obama is not that sure on his feet. Obama stumbled and was visible derailed. Obama also agreed with McCain many times.

    So it confirms for me that Obama is someone's marketing product. Nicely packaged and has the ability to deliver his speeches. Just basically a pretty sock pocket for someone.

    ---

    I dont know what some of the other posters watched but I agree with you, McCain, in my views was much better. Yes Obama is nothing but a nice package. I will agree that the man can speak, but it is all very much meaningless, lots of platitude, in a way, reminded me of a used car dealer. Too bad lots of people are just swallowing his BS and not seeing him for what he really is. If find it very amusing that when someone is indicating that they like McCain better, the pro-Obama people immediately say that it is because he is black and you a racist. No real defense just the usual socialist nonsense that we have seen in this country for so many years and still used today by the Liberals.
  39. Free Markets from Canada writes: Jake - you mean the keating 5, where in 1991 a senate ethics committee cleared Sen Mccain and who was the only Republican in the mix?

    Now we know why your not a speech writer.
  40. Tax me! I'm Canadian. I'll roll over! from Canada writes: :
    There is no race. Either way, America loses. The race is manufactured by the pro-State media to perpetuate the hallucination of choice.
    Democracy is a ruse. Both candidates believe they have the right to steal from you and redistribute the loot to the debacles of the day.

    Ron Paul was America's last, best hope. The Establishment killed his campaign and refused to allow the public to hear the message he spoke of.

    A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

    The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence. From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance, from abundance to complacency; from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back into bondage.

    - Alexander Frasier Tytler

    Guess where we are now. (Thanks Brian)
  41. Tax me! I'm Canadian. I'll roll over! from Canada writes: :
    To people calling for change via the election process:

    Voting is pointless. All we get to do is to decide what shade of lipstick gets to be put on the pig, but the pig still is a pig.

    If you really think about what democracy is, it is nothing more than political 'might makes right'. It is about 50 1% of the people who decide what policies are forced on 50-1%. Democracy is actually the anti-thesis of individual liberties and freedom. Democracy assumes that the majority 'knows what is right and truth'. Anyone believe that? Do you think that voters who go to the polls have any inkling of what is really going on the world, read, assumes the media informs them, and casts their ballots with the conviction they know what is best for others?

    We frequently hear the media/government cartel lament about 'low turnout in the polls'. They tout 'voter apathy' as the reason. They would never say, 'People think voting is pointless!'

    What if on our ballots, we had the choice of 'None of the above!'. Don't confuse this with spoiling your ballot. This is explicitly saying, 'All the candidates suck!'. I wonder if this option became available, would their be a surge in voter turnout to select that choice? I.e. a 90% turnout where 70% of people chose 'None of the above'? We'll never know. Democracy is a ruse. The State will never allow us serfs to vote against the State.
  42. Tilting @ Windmills from Marbella, Spain writes: Of all the comments, Laurence Hallewell from Columbus OH was the most perceptive: Just as the US electorate is still too misogynist for Hilary to have been a viable Democratic candidate, so it is still too racist for Obama to win in November (a secret ballot allows us all to keep our true beliefs to ourselves till we get into the poling booth).
    My forecast: McCane is so amazed by the size of his victory, his emotional overload gives him a fatal heart attack and we have Sally the Appalling in the White House till 2016. '

    I too am appalled at the possibility that this ignorant and morally irresponsible woman will have access to the Nuclear Football.
  43. Canadian Abroad from London, United Kingdom writes: I think McCain was speaking to his base. Obama was speaking to the independants -Those who wanted details and facts on what each candidate is going to do.

    My point being anyone who went in with an open mind had to wonder why McCain was giving an emotional narrative instead of reasons to vote for him. Often I found it difficult to track what question he was actually answering. I'm not trying to be biased here, but he was thinking about the sound bites that would be replayed after the fact.

    The other thing is he never once looked at Obama. What was up with that?
  44. Grassroots are the wave of the future from Canada writes: Tax me! I'm Canadian. I'll roll over! from Canada: I brought up the same point about the poll on globe yesterday, why did they not put none of the above as a choice.
  45. j boland from United States writes: An interesting debate. McCain lost opportunity on several occasions to dig a deep hole for Obama, put him in it and fill it up, but overall an objective observer, such as moi, would rate McCain as the mature and serious candidate in a very dangerous world. Obama is the slick new kid who tries to wow and zow but really is all show with very little 'there' there. Obama, in his own oblique way, agreed with that assessment by his 7 or 8 specific 'I agree with you Senator McCain on that.' The most striking of those related to the very startling exchange starting with the question by Laird to Obama re Russia and Putin. Obama gave his canned response that he developed by adopting McCain's position after the actual Geogia-Russia events unfolded, and then McCain responded. He laid out in 2 minutes the importance of the events in that entire area, including the concerns for the future. Laird asked Obama to respond, and he said 'I pretty much agree with everything John said.' A most telling comment--it was obvious that Obama had almost no knowledge of the issues McCain had just raised--he was clearly totally clueless on that area, and so he just adopted McCain's views. Not very comforting to think of that lack of experience in the White House in four months. The interesting thing is to find out how intelligent the audience is--do they swallow the shallowness of Obama for ideological reasons, or do they turn to someone of real substance and experience at a critical time in history to deal with seriously important world issues.
  46. Tax me! I'm Canadian. I'll roll over! from Canada writes: :

    One thing I know for sure. The Rupublicrats have this all sewn up.
  47. Tax me! I'm Canadian. I'll roll over! from Canada writes: :
    Grassroots are the wave of the future from Canada writes: Tax me! I'm Canadian. I'll roll over! from Canada: I brought up the same point about the poll on globe yesterday, why did they not put none of the above as a choice.

    ----

    You are not allowed to say, 'No Government'. The State/Media cartel needs to perpetuate the system of taxation/inflation we are enslaved to.
  48. Tax me! I'm Canadian. I'll roll over! from Canada writes: :I have posted this declaration twice before and I offer it for new readers consideration:

    - I wish no power over you.
    - I wish that you have no power over me.
    - Where I have power over you, I shall seek to renounce it.
    - Where you have power over me, I shall pray that you renounce it, and so long as it be extant, I shall condemn it.
    - Where there are those who would try to give me power over you, I shall denounce them and condemn them.
    - Where there are those who would try to give you power over me, I shall laugh at them and condemn them.
    - Where you would use force to sustain any putative power relationship over me, I shall condemn you and resist you, and call to my brethren in our struggle against you.
    - Where a tyrant, a majority, a plurality, or a minority presume to grant you power over me, or over anyone else, I shall condemn it, resist it, renounce it and denounce it.
    - Where there are those who are subjugated beneath the boot heel of power, by 'democratic' means or otherwise, I shall support their resistance, their condemnation, their denunciation and their renunciation.
    - I shall make no compromise with evil.

    How many people find themselves aligning with this ideology? If not, why not?
  49. j boland from United States writes: I can't wait for the Palin-Biden debate.

    I assume Gwenn Iffel will try to emulate Laird's fair treatment of the candidates--which I thought Laird did very well--and then Palin will sink or swim without the media bias claws out for her. I think she will do well. She is authentric and real people like that. What they don't like is the crap that comes from typical politicians who look down from above on all the 'little' people, as is the want of the democrats all the time.

    After hearing Obama's clear lack of foreign policy know-how last night, his Palistan comments another big downer for him last night, she should be happy since she cannot look any less experienced than he does. There should be another debate between Obama and Palin on foreign policy--now, THAT would be fun.
  50. Tim in Texas from United States writes: It's looks like Obama's handlers were able to cram enough facts and talking points into Obama to allow him to hold his own... McCain's experience carried him through. McCain was the only demonstrating presidential qualities last night. McCain wins handily.
  51. j boland from United States writes: Re Obama's lack of experience, I forget the entire exchange but at one point as McCain hammered home his experience and foreign policy knowledge and readiness, Obama responded by essentially saying, 'Well, I picked Joe Biden.' Not very comforting to me.
  52. j boland from United States writes: I agree with Tim's comments. It did seem that Obama came with canned responses, that to the faithful got their juices going, but off script he had very little to say, and that came through. Very good observation, Tim.
  53. j boland from United States writes: I hope in the next debates re domestic matters that McCain nails Obama to the wall with his Let Born Babies Die on the Table policy in Illinois. Of all the political positions I have ever heard from any politician, that has to be the most crass and despicable I have ever heard. A comparable law was passed at the federal level re federal facilities and even Nancy Pilosi and Harry Reid supported it, but not Barak back in Illinois--despite his spin now to try to wiggle out of it--for he continued to oppose even that identical language when introduced in Illinois. The law passed in Illinois after he went to Washington.
  54. an astute commenter from Canada writes: Drudge says McCain wins, 2 to 1. Once Obama's off-script or loses his teleprompter, he's lost.
  55. j boland from United States writes: I expect that a deal will be struck over the weekend re the financial crisis bailout, and some needed protections will be included to protect the taxpayers from the next gang rape by the democrats as they would put their corrupt buddies in charge of this 'solution.' Obama will follow his usual non-involvement, and McCain's fingerprints will be clearly visible. Point to McCain.

    If you need an example re needing protection from the democrat 'greeks' beaing gifts of 'caring', return to Katrina. It is getting cleaned up now with a republican governor now in charge, but the democrats looted billions before they were brought under control. By the way, do you notice the difference in Texas---no whining, no looting, just hard work to deal with a natural disaster. Every time the dems get their grimy fingers on anything, they screw it up, royally. Obama is just more of the same, and that came through last night even on the economic questions where, I agree, McCain lost opportunity to get right back into Obama's face with critical facts.
  56. D Roberts from Canada writes: McCain identified the greatest threat to democracy, cancerous waste in government. It is eating us alive, all in North America. The government unionized monopolies simply have to go. No societly needs to pay 50% and more of all revenues in taxation. Especially when we get reduced services in return. This is the issue. The big pink elephant in the room.

    In Canada, Liberals and NDP defend wasteful spending and the unionized workforce with all their might. And Canadians lose. Just as Americans lose.

    This is THE ISSUE. We need public service accountability. Right now, we have none. Zero. Just spend and waste. The general public struggles. Gov't workers retire with indexed pension at 55. Or they double dip.

    People need to wake up. Your money is being stolen. Twice monthly.
  57. Tax me! I'm Canadian. I'll roll over! from Canada writes: :
    an astute commenter from Canada writes: Drudge says McCain wins, 2 to 1. Once Obama's off-script or loses his teleprompter, he's lost.

    ----

    Yes. Obama is an idiot. Look what happens when he loses his teleprompter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of61E1FesPU

    McCain is a tool as well. Have a look at this video. Seen 5.8 million times on Youtube. In McCains own words. Watch his train of thought still boarding at the station:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c

    McCain has an interesting relationship with his current wife, Cindy:

    Three reporters from Arizona, on the condition of anonymity, also let me in on another incident involving McCain's intemperateness. In his 1992 Senate bid, McCain was joined on the campaign trail by his wife, Cindy, as well as campaign aide Doug Cole and consultant Wes Gullett. At one point, Cindy playfully twirled McCain's hair and said, 'You're getting a little thin up there.' McCain's face reddened, and he responded, 'At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you c-nt.' McCain's excuse was that it had been a long day. If elected president of the United States, McCain would have many long days.

    Source: http://tinyurl.com/57kh7w

    Of course, mainstream media let that one go because they didn't want their carefully crafted manufacturing (i.e. 'maverick') of his candidacy go to waste. Ron Paul proposed the abolition of the IRS and the Federal Reserve, amongst other things. Who was the true maverick?

    You want to see what America could have had? Without a teleprompter? Watch what happens here when Faux News douchebag Carl Cameron attempts to question Paul about his electability. Watch Paul hit it out of the park:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqP08kThZPc
  58. Reg Anderson from Canada writes: So they BOTH agree that a bail-out is necessary. I'm not surprised.. no-one else should be either.

    1) Divide
    2) Confuse
    3) Push thru the agenda
  59. j boland from United States writes: Heavy rain last night, need some sun now to dry out the grass. Hard to grow grass in our heavyily treed area, but best lawn we've had in years at this season of the year, thanks to good spouse. The dichotomy of a beautiful environment in a gorgeous country and the never ending efforts of the democrats that inevitably decay and destroy the land is palpable. Lofty words always, like silver-tongue Barak, but actions that lead to destruction, and all in the name of 'caring.' It's very perverse.
  60. F F from Canada writes: Kind of ironic how McCain attacks Obama on his lack of experience but yet picks Palin as his VP, when there is a moderate chance of him not making it for his term.
    Palin,of course, wasn't available for any commentary after the debate.
  61. Reg Anderson from Canada writes: Grassroots are the wave of the future from Canada writes: Tax me! I'm Canadian. I'll roll over! from Canada: I brought up the same point about the poll on globe yesterday, why did they not put none of the above as a choice.

    --

    I think every poll should have a none-of-the-above category.
  62. j boland from United States writes: F F from Canada writes: 'Kind of ironic how McCain attacks Obama on his lack of experience but yet picks Palin as his VP, when there is a moderate chance of him not making it for his term.'

    Oh, my, that drivel again. How tedious.
  63. Fred Pacilli from Boston, United States writes: Joe and Ben.... interesting talk on 'da weed'. I'm a Canadian/American. Actually, Italian/Canadian/American. I now live in the US and plan to return to Canada. I vote. Believe me when I say Canada has a better system of govenment along with its standard of living. But the US takes on global responsibility that Canada shys away from. Just the tip of the iceberg that can be said of the two countries. Having said that, to this election. I told my American stepson (who graduated from McGill this year) that this election would be one of the most important elections in the history of the US and that for the first time the VPs were going to play a much more important role. Turns out I was right. There are two very good men running for office. If you are leaning towards the economy, it's Obama. If it is international affairs, McCain. If the economy of the US is strong, it can handle international affairs with more muscle. This would mean less show of force or use of it. Obama is a leader here. If the economy of the US is weak, it must rely on force to make its points heard and/or accepted. This would mean a greater show of force or use of it. McCain is the leader here. If the US is strong in the international arena through force, we will not have the 'true blue' allies we need and the framework will be weak. If the economy is week. It will stay week. If it is strong, it will weaken. If the US is strong in the international arena through a strong economic engine, we will have 'true blue' allies and the framework will be strong. If the economy is weak, it will strengthen. If it is strong, it will continue. Obama makes a point. It isn't a question of the surge working. The US shouldn't be in the war in the first place with Iraq. McCain makes a point. We follow world laws in place. We do not invade one country to get to another. However, do not say out load that we would. Now, let the American people decide.
  64. Reg Anderson from Canada writes: Ben SGT/USMC from United States writes:

    I am the most patriotic, 'flag-waving' American that you can find... but what I think I learned today staggered me. We're (The USA and perhaps some others) are in for an awful ride.
    ---
    In other words, Ben SGT/USMC from United States is finally waking up. Welcome to the human race Ben!
  65. Tim in Texas from United States writes: It was easy to see the clear contrast between the two candidates economic platforms.. Obama took a page from Canadian politics and offered $800B worthy of vote buying goodies. How he can honest tell Americans he represents change is beyond me...... On the other hand, McCain offers to freeze spending, cut waste, veto pork, and root-out corruption. McCain gets it.
  66. Brad Wood from Houston, United States writes: I thought it was a draw. Obama has to stop saying your right John McCain if he wants to win.
  67. Reg Anderson from Canada writes: Fred Pacilli from Boston, United States writes: Joe and Ben.... interesting talk on 'da weed'. I'm a Canadian/American. Actually, Italian/Canadian/American. I now live in the US and plan to return to Canada. I vote. Believe me when I say Canada has a better system of govenment along with its standard of living.
    --
    Thats just BS. All systems can be abused. The abuse is the problem.. not the system.
  68. D L from British Columbia, Canada writes: Jesus... What debate were you Americans watching (J Boland and Tim)????? McCain looked like Mr. Burns from the Simpsons. A grumpy old man who will carry on the policies of the Bush disaster... Contrary to what most Americans beleive, the way you treat people is reflective of how you will be treated in return... Jesus, what are you people thinking? John McCain is another war president... He admitted he didn't know much about the economy... You cannot afford anymore ill will towards your country... It is making you less safe!!! You can't fight hateful ideologies with violence, it will breed more violence!!! What are you thinking? McCain is not going to change anything.... He has never reformed anything, other than deregulation of business which has led to bloody disaster of an economy that we see today... Sarah Palin is a walking punchline... Not because she's a woman, but because she's dangerously unqualified... Katie Couric did not show media bias; she asked fair questions... 'How does seeing Alaska bolster your foreign policy experience?' That is a fair question... Instead of laughing it off as a joke she bloody well tries to defend it!!! 'They send groups to negotiate,' though she couldn't elaborate... 'They fly over Alaska when they fly to the US!!!' I mean, where is the punchline? I'm sure it could have been one heck of a zinger! This is like watching the unfoldings of The Jerry Springer Show on an international stage... If she were a man she would have been laughed and moched off the ticket weeks ago.... Open your eyes... Vote for change... Obama has just as much experience as many great presidents in your history... And experience doesn't stack up to a pile of beans when the ideas are WRONG... You need to talk to world leaders that aren't your friends... You cannot afford the war in Iraq... And you can't afford another four years of classifying people as either good or evil, with us or against us... Vote for change.. Vote Obama....
  69. thirtyeight * from Canada writes: What a line of bullsh*t. McCain's 'experience' in foreign policy is having dropped bombs in Nam and then sitting in the Senate for twenty years promoting American imperialism.

    His foreign policy will be dictated to him by his advisors whom he will follow and obey - Kissinger, William Kristol, Randy Scheunneman, Richard Armitage and Robert Kagan, to name a few. Scheunemann, Kagan, and Kristol are project directors of PNAC, Kissinger is a war criminal disguised as a Nobel peace prize winner.
  70. j boland from United States writes: I do agree in pat with Brad Wood from Houston, United States who writes: 'Obama has to stop saying your right John McCain if he wants to win. '

    That is correct. Obama needs to avoid the truth at all costs if he expects to win.

    Unfortunately for him, last night his lack of knowledge forced him to agree with McCain openly many times. In an open forum such as last night, he is not able to avoid the truth as he does in his campaign stops, helped by a willing media who almost never ask him a pointed question to force an honest answer. This is precisely why the debates, often flawed, remain very important in ferreting out the truth.
  71. Grassroots are the wave of the future from Canada writes: Tax me! I'm Canadian. I'll roll over! from Canada writes: :
    ----

    You are not allowed to say, 'No Government'. The State/Media cartel needs to perpetuate the system of taxation/inflation we are enslaved to.
    ===================================================I do not think that saying none of the above means no government, it just means that one is unhappy with the system in place. What frustrates me is those who are so partisan in their views, that they fail to look at or address how each side fails to address the issues.
  72. Mike M from Sheunacadie N.S., Canada writes: I assume Gwenn Iffel will try to emulate Laird's fair treatment of the candidates--which I thought Laird did very well--and then Palin will sink or swim without the media bias claws out for her. I think she will do well. She is authentric and real people like that. What they don't like is the crap that comes from typical politicians who look down from above on all the 'little' people, as is the want of the democrats all the time.

    After hearing Obama's clear lack of foreign policy know-how last night, his Palistan comments another big downer for him last night, she should be happy since she cannot look any less experienced than he does. There should be another debate between Obama and Palin on foreign policy--now, THAT would be fun.
    =========================================
    You obviously did not watch the Palin /Kourdic interview on CBS on Thursday night. Palin was a disaster. If the Republicans somehow win this in November we all should pray for John McCain's health. The thought of the dimwit Palin in charge of the nuclear football is scary.
  73. Dick Garneau from Canada writes: McCain came across as a war monger, cut waste to fund wars.

    Obama came across as a peace visionary, spend on essentials, cut non essentials, he speaks from a clear plan.

    Obama won the debate!
  74. Reg Anderson from Canada writes: Grassroots are the wave of the future from Canada writes: I do not think that saying none of the above means no government, it just means that one is unhappy with the system in place. What frustrates me is those who are so partisan in their views, that they fail to look at or address how each side fails to address the issues.
    ---
    Well said Grassroots. Its how they always manage to 'fail to address' the issues that are important to us..

    They always seem to wind up providing a solution that is financially mutually beneficial to the govenment's themselves and the corporations.
  75. j boland from United States writes: Thank you D L from British Columbia, Canada, for your words direct from central casting at Obama central.

    Change you want, for the sake of change? Not very sagacious. Hmmm...how about inviting Osama to talk, that will be next?

    I would luv some kinds of change--how about 'I will go after the corrupt, and demand accountability.' Ever notice that Barak never talks about that kind of change, for obvious reasons.

    Barak has in his soul the mindset of entitlement, for himself, and for his supporters. That is why he was up to his eyeballs in 'earmarks' and only claimed to change when he saw the public was getting mad. That's the problem, a mindset of corruption, which permeates everything about him.

    Much of his earmarks were in bringing home the bacon to his Chicago cronies. He's a fraud, face it, but if that's your idea of change, well.....well, what else can be said?
  76. D L from British Columbia, Canada writes: 'Do not yield. Do not flinch. Stand up. Stand up with our President and fight. We're Americans. We're Americans, and we'll never surrender. They will.' J. McCain

    This is bloody terrifying.... I mean, he's not Winston Churchill who was actually defending his country from impending invasion... He's talking about fighting people living in dirt huts, wearing normal clothes and not all belonging to any particular army. From the outset of the Nazi madness it was understood that the ARMY could be beaten and could surrender. Who are you fighting today? How can you kill or capture every single terrorist? You cannot... Especially when every civilian you kill breeds more and more hate/violence and extremism... Open your eyes.. You cannot win this war with might... You have to win it with goodwill...
  77. Tax me! I'm Canadian. I'll roll over! from Canada writes: :
    Grassroots are the wave of the future from Canada writes: Tax me! I'm Canadian. I'll roll over! from Canada writes: :
    ----

    You are not allowed to say, 'No Government'. The State/Media cartel needs to perpetuate the system of taxation/inflation we are enslaved to.
    ===================================================I do not think that saying none of the above means no government, it just means that one is unhappy with the system in place. What frustrates me is those who are so partisan in their views, that they fail to look at or address how each side fails to address the issues.

    ----

    Point taken.

    'If voting could change things, it would be made illegal.'

    As I get older, I am beginning to recognize a few things. I don't have the right to steal from you. You don't have the right to steal from me. If we both agree on that, than how is it that we delegate that non-right to a third party?

    This is what we do by voting. We validate the ascendancy of a power that steals from us by force. Voting is simply the method where we think we get to decide where the loot is to be spent by forcing polcies on each other. Time and time again, history has proven that the State is either incompetent or psychopathic, yet we Serfs continue to play the game, dumbed down by a public education system.

    For the first time in my life, I am not voting. I refuse to force any candidate on my fellow Canadians. If Canadians saw through the game, they would stop voting as well and build agorist networks.
  78. John Silverman from Canada writes: 'If find it very amusing that when someone is indicating that they like McCain better, the pro-Obama people immediately say that it is because he is black and you a racist. No real defense just the usual socialist nonsense that we have seen in this country for so many years and still used today by the Liberals.'

    I haven't seen a single poster say that in this article or any other article over the past 2 months from this entire campaign. Nor have I hard a single person say that out loud or on the radio.

    Where are these people who are pulling that card?

    Methinks you are the one reaching for a lame excuse to defend McBush. Next time stick to the issues if you want to be taken seriously.

    I thought Obama won last night. McCain was better then expected but still too much like Bush and droned on about the wrong things at times. He is better then Bush though at least.
  79. Earl Anthony from Sudbury, Canada writes: I would like to know why Obama is thought to be stronger on the economy than McCain.

    Obama as a community organizer in ACORN was one of those who strong armed banks into making the risky loans that led to this financial crisis. His higher taxation policies are very dangerous at economically uncertain times.
  80. Reg Anderson from Canada writes: D L from British Columbia, Canada writes: How can you kill or capture every single terrorist? You cannot... Especially when every civilian you kill breeds more and more hate/violence and extremism... Open your eyes.. You cannot win this war with might... You have to win it with goodwill...
    ---
    D L.. we have to rid ourselves of the lie first. These wars were never about spreading democracy. They are about control of the distribution of oil ( and gas ) in the middle east. The countries that need to be de-stabalized and re-stabalized are Syria, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. The oil is in Syria and Iraq. The gas, in Afghanistan and surrounding area. Afghansinstan and Iran are geoographically located in-between the oil and the up-and-comming markets of India and China and the potential for profit from control of the distribution (via pipeline) of oil and gas are astronmical. Its all greed. Corporate globalization manipulating western democracy.
  81. John Silverman from Canada writes: 'Earl Anthony from Sudbury, Canada writes: I would like to know why Obama is thought to be stronger on the economy than McCain.

    His higher taxation policies are very dangerous at economically uncertain times'

    Because Obama has more experience and more education, is helping to lead the resolution of the current crisis, and because McCain has self-admitted he doesn't know much about the economy.

    Their taxation policies are literally almost exactly the same. The revenues will be very similar - go checkout any website that does a thorough comparison. The only difference is that Obama taxes are focused on those making over $250K more, and he is giving big tax breaks to those making under $250K. McCain is for raising taxes on those making under $250K (at a time like this!!!) and lowering taxes on those making over $250K.

    How anyone can justify giving more tax breaks to the rich and raising taxes on low income instead of the other way around is beyond me. It is another reason many economists don't think McCain properly understands the economy.
  82. j boland from United States writes: Dick Garneau from Canada writes: 'Obama came across as a peace visionary, spend on essentials, cut non essentials, he speaks from a clear plan.'

    Nice thought, just not true. Laird pressed him several times on how he would control spending, and he could not come up with even one program or give one idea for doing so. He's a fraud.

    Uh....just what is a 'peace visionary?

    I'm not aware of anyone who would not prefer peace. But, ignoring issues and pandering to rogue nation bullies is not the work of a peace maker and certainly not that of a visionary. I was just reading the other day of the harsh criticism of Britain and Churchill even in the last days before WW2 started, accused of being 'imperialistic' by the peace visionaries of the time because they were sounding the alarm about Hitler. Nothing changes on the 'progressive'agenda.
  83. The Skipper from Canada writes: Very boring blah, blah,blah debate.

    No, nothing will change in Washington and mainstreet America will still lose their homes and the criminals of the American and Canadian banks will enjoy their immunity.
    McCain though is an old man and at least Obama brought a sparkle of youth to the platform.
  84. Tim in Texas from United States writes: D L from British Columbia, Canada writes: ' blah blah blah... Vote for change. Vote Obama.... '. Too funny. Thanks
  85. D L from British Columbia, Canada writes: Are you even remotely serious J Boland? Entitlement? The guy was raised by his grandparents... He worked his way through college... He could have made millions as a lawyer in NYC but instead chose to help inner city Chicago while only making peanuts... He's worht a mere one percent of what John McCain is worth. Cutting earmarks out of the equation does not really help anything in the grand scheme of things... It is 18 billion... In a budget of what, say one trillion... Get real buddy... A 10 trillion dollar debt and you think it's ok to be spending 700 billion dollars in Iraq? What are you thinking? John McCain is obviously a war hero... You cannot say that he understands the problems of average yanks.... He grew up in an aristocratic family and has never had a real job in his life (I'm a pilot, flying airplanes is not a job). Republicans are the ones that give money to the rich and take from the poor... Republicans are supposed to be the religious side.. The supposed side of good (I'm an atheist so I don't agree with what I just said)... You let the rich get richer and the poor get poorer... What would have been the harm with telling Saddam face to face that he is a lunatic and that the US was going to wage war? Would it have hurt the situation? Wouldn't it show the seeds to talk the talk; unless you think dropping bombs from a 60 million dollar jet is showing courage ??? You need to care about what the rest of the world thinks. Barack does... McCain does not..... McCain is wrong.... Jesus...