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Ottawa, provinces urged to enforce Health Act

The Canadian Press

Latest comment posted at 12:40 PM EST 06/10/08

For-profit medical clinics ‘cracking' Canada's health-care system, report says ...Read the full article

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  1. Kat Wilson from Canada writes: The CBC today reports that private clinics are double billing. Saw this coming. The private sector wants money. Money is the bottom line. Money money money and greed drive private sector clinics. We are fools to allow this in our country. Canadian doctors are promoting private sector health care because they hundreds of thousands they make every year aren't enough: they, too, have dollar signs where their eyeballs are. Too bad, so sad. It used to be that people became doctors because they cared about medicine. Now it's make a buck. The poorly paid nurses, on the other hand, support public health care. Go figure.
  2. Jeff S from Canada writes: So, what your saying is everyday citizens should not be allowed to partake of the private system like some of our esteemed politicians like Jack Layton and Paul Marting.

    Politicians should be forced to use the same sh*t*y system as us and then they will see how inept it is being managed.

    Canadian healthcare is great if you can survive the wait.
  3. Bill H from Hamilton, Canada writes: kinda stupid to create an act that encourages those with money to spend it in the US. If people with money can't get it done here fast enough, they WILL go to the US. We can talk about fairness all we want but the fact of the matter is: Wealthy people will get what they want/need - even if it means flying to a country that offers services they can't get in Canada. Instead of attemtping to thart the second tier i suggest a government regulated 2nd tier be put into place...maybe another crown corporations where Canadian tax payers would profit from.
  4. Bob Hawkins from Vancouver, Canada writes: The Globe should publish the names of the people behind these obscure groups with their own political agendas. Anonymity is unwarranted in these situations. I suspect the people behind this are Liberals and NDPers and should stand up for their beliefs by naming themselves.
    As for profit services, there are lots of them out there, the largest group being physicians. Anyone complaining about doctors charging the health plans for their services? I have to pay my doctor for my annual physical because it is not covered by the provincial health insurance plan. I do so happily. If I want to get an MRI at a private facility, why shouldn't I ? My place in line for a hospital based MRI service can go to someone who can't afford the private fee. Everyone wins as far as I can see.
    Some people want everything for free and 'right now'. They and this anonymous group are unrealistic. Maybe that is why they are embarrassed to display their names.
  5. r s from Canada writes:
    Good.

    To bad the Feds did not take it over all together. Then the likes of Gordo Campbell and the rest of the P3 parade would be dead in the water where they belong.

    Keep healthcare public and shut down the private BS!!
  6. Gary Lee from Mississauga, Canada writes: When I go to my GP, he has a private office. It has been this way all of my life. He doesn't extra bill be, but it's still private delivery of healthcare, and funding is public. According to the Green Party nuts, I guess we have to close all of the doctor's offices across the country.
  7. Loudan Bellicose from Canada writes: Shut down the Copeman Clinics and you will have my vote.
    Any party that shuts down these clinics will have my vote.
    This is an issue that can make or break the election.
  8. Happy Go Lucky from Millerville, Canada writes:
    Kat Wilson:

    Money doesn't drive the private system, opportunity does. When that opportunity is inefficiency, I can't pay fast enough for someone to provide me with the care that our public system won't--especially if my life or that of my loved ones is in jeopardy.

    Waiting six months for a diagnosis--not the care itself, just the diagnosis--often means the difference between recovery and seriously compromised health, or irresversible damage.

    Meanwhile, politicians of every creed and clan adhere to pretty and popular policies that don't stand the test of practice. They're alchemists, Kat. It's a shame that their 'science' comes at the cost of our well being.
  9. Scenic Sask! from Canada writes: Healthcare in Canada is broken My neighbour had to wait over four months to have a cancerous prostate removed. Of course that was TOO LATE. Now he has only months to live. We have one of the WORST systems in the world. There are better ways.
  10. Systemic Risk from Canada writes: Or maybe having regulated 'for-profit' health clinics in this country just makes Canada like every other country in the western world, including France, Germany, Sweden and others that have far better performing systems than we do. What we should have is the ability to use our public insurance at these clinic, paying the difference if necessary. Rigid state monopolies, in health care as anywhere else, are rarely know for their service delivery prowess - the OHA is just the Nurses and Docs trying to protect their turf, which means their annual guaranteed raises without any accountability.
  11. The Religious Left from Canada writes:
    If we do end up with a 2 tiered system, it should be because our government decides we should. We shouldn't change our system because some clinic breaks the law and we allow it.
  12. Thomas Toronto from Toronto, Canada writes: The organization behind this nonsense is on the web and originates out of a basement apartment in Toronto. It supports full union control of the health care system that is threatened by private clinic growth. (IE choice)
    To disguise this any other way is doing the truth a disservice. Our health care system is already multi tiered, government employees, high income, low income and those that simply would do anything to save the lives of their family.
    Choice is the secret to quality and affordability.
  13. M L from Vancouver, Canada writes: as an american who is SO PROUD and GRATEFUL to be a permanent resident of Canada, i can only say that the for-profit-medical-system of the usa is a scandal and a scourge which causes untold and unnecessary suffering for literally millions of people.... channeling Bill Clinton when he was up here not terribly long ago: PLEASE don't go the way of the us when it comes to healthcare!
  14. greg middleton from Canada writes: Choice is fine if you can afford it. Half our population can't. With only that half paying into a public system, its quality of care collapses and thats the end of that Period.

    Randal, what for profit means is the corporation who owns a facility paying dividends to its share holders. Usually taking money out of the country, lie any other multinational. Public facilities obviously don't do this.
  15. Joseph Bloggins from Canada writes: Canada's 'public' health system is not the shining jewel of the world that the left makes it out to be. It is way down the list in terms of health care systems but the Canadian public has been brainwashed over the years to think ours is the best. The reality is it's a long way from the best and it is being hijacked by unions and socialists.

    M L from Vancouver...please cut the crap. There are lots of models that use private health care and they are far better than ours. You might also want to explain why so many Canadians (hypocrite politicians as well) who are health care refugees and head to the US for treatment.

    Lets just cut the crap, shall we?
  16. Happy Go Lucky from Millerville, Canada writes:

    How could I forget?

    What poorly paid nurses? For their three years / four years of undergraduate education, $50-60k is pretty good. They are disgustingly well protected by unions so that even if they are clinically incompetent and have atrocious attitudes towards patients, seniority rights ensure a bright future for their wallets.

    A physician billing $250k a year must carry malpractice insurance ($40,000-$50,000) office fees ($30,000-$40,000) a portion of administrative salary ($25-30,000 / year), and other professional fees and expenses. Quick math shows you how unsustainable this model is, and it shouldn't surprise anyone who can add 2 2 that the physician will seek better ways of keeping a greater portion of compensation. Four years' undergraduate training, four years medical school, and let's say an average of three years of residency to specialize. For approximately three times the academic preparation and rigour, significantly greater legal and clinical risk, the physician earns double the gross salary.

    It isn't as simple as doctors vs nurses, Kat. And the tired, misinformed, and old view that altruistic, gentle, naive nurses are victims in the system while greedy doctors reap its benefits is so painfully obsolete that it's like trying to make the case for a geocentric universe at the planetarium.
  17. Systemic Risk from Canada writes: greg middleton (and others) - the idea of being able to opt out of public insurance IS a bad one. The model I favour is the European one where universal insurance of funded mostly out of general tax revenues (i.e. from all) and delivery is through a mix of public, not-for-profit and for-profit. The system is open to all and what services can be privately insured is usually strictly regulated. What is does insure is that there is more investment in the system - that is why you have many more doctors and nurses and beds in Euro-countries - because there are multiple buyers. In Canada there is only one, who seems to make very bad investment decisions - yet we have no recourse when you end up with 5 million w/o a family doctor, and shortages across many critical specialities. The US might be worst but we are a LONG way from being best.
  18. r s from Canada writes: I get a laugh out of anyone who is pro private care..... If your pro private then your a statistic that the Canadian Medical Association and the Fraser Insistute can be proud of. The brain washing ad campaign has worked on some of the gulible masses in this country. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas Toronto from Toronto, Canada writes: The organization behind this nonsense is on the web and originates out of a basement apartment in Toronto. It supports full union control of the health care system that is threatened by private clinic growth. (IE choice) To disguise this any other way is doing the truth a disservice. Our health care system is already multi tiered, government employees, high income, low income and those that simply would do anything to save the lives of their family. Choice is the secret to quality and affordability. Thomas Toronto....Even the Unions would do a better job than all the BS and willful damage to our healthcare system done by the present bunch of BS'ers. You know there working hard to sell us out just like free trade and joining the world price club for our gas and oil. Canadians = idiots in most cases. Blinded by the awe and BS that spews out of Politicans faces!! WAKE UP!!
  19. Systemic Risk from Canada writes: r s from Canada - so I expect you will be writing all the Health Ministers of Western Europe to inform them they are right-wing ideologues. I love the advocates of the status quo - they are so parochial! The best health care I ever witnessed was when I lived in Germany for a year and needed to be in hospital for a few days - the service was amazing even though I had to pay 11 marks a day (about $8 at the time) - I guess for you that would be some sort of crime against social justice.
  20. M M from canada, Canada writes: Yeah, that's right let's talk about billing, rather than if anyone actually gets good health care!!! The patient is always the last person that is actually considered in health care - much better to adhere to an ideology rather than letting people get access to services that might make their life better.
  21. James Tod from Vancouver, Canada writes: Harper wants to privatize the Healthcare industry, not support the public system. Chose wisely on October 14th!
  22. Marian Olson from Canada writes: What we need, but likely will never get, is even more private/for profit (what an evil thought in the land of the pure!). Far better we suffer and whine at the hands of our expensive, dysfunctional system of Medicare? Although I'm not exactly affluent, it is a comfort to me to know that private facilities are available should the 'system' let me down. OK, suppose Layton and friends shut down every evil for-profit clinic. What do you think that would do to our waiting lists? These hypocrites in the past have availed themselves of private services, but as usual they don't want the rest of us to have that access. Be prepared to head for the bad old USA for some timely, quality care.
  23. Karen J Cao from Toronto, Canada writes: Create a disease so you can sell a treatment. CMA leader Dr. Robert Ouellet is factually wrong when he says Canada is ranked 30th in the world in terms of results measured from money invested, this figure is from the discredited WHO report that ranked Columbia first in fairness of financing and the UAE first in responsiveness. The study was so poorly researched that the WHO has created committee to revise its research methods since 2000. Health care bills can mean the difference between a middle class falling into the lower or even homelessness, in the U.S. an ankle fall can cost you upwards of $5000 in New York, - private health care takes resources away from improving the public system, taking away doctors and investments while private clinics discriminate against the poor and most sickly, they take the healthiest and most lucrative leaving the sick for public hospitals, staffing ratios are low - billing people for things that are not mandatory like $300 appointments with dieticians to get access to publicly funded colonoscopy. NOWHERE, HAS IT BEEN SHOWN THAT IMPLEMENTING PRIVATE CLINICS AND HOSPITALS TO THE PUBLIC SYSTEM HAVE CUT COST, CURRENT EVIDENCE SUGGEST THE OPPOSITE
  24. Prairie Boy from Canada writes: Funny how they never see the other side. What they want is a rationed health care system where dying saves them money. Long waiting lists? Save on money. If I want to spend my money on my health care somehow that is unfair. I should die instead? I can wait for a diagnostic test or pay for it myself. If the test concludes I need healthcare I shouldn't get it because that upsets the rationing.

    Any one that wants to improve the system must realize you aren't getting from here to there by letting the no competition rule apply. If a private facility can provide the care for the same price as the public system but with the capital cost incurred by them rather than you, how is that unfair? You pay the same, you just get treatment faster.

    I heard an interview with a woman in Mexico. She went to a Dr. to see about her mouth. He said she needed a dentist. He walked her to the office. The dentist said she needed a root canal but he didn't do it so he walked her to the Dr. that did. It took about two hours to do it all and the cost was somewhere around $160.00. How do we stack up?
  25. r s from Canada writes: Systemic Risk from Canada writes: r s from Canada - so I expect you will be writing all the Health Ministers of Western Europe to inform them they are right-wing ideologues. I love the advocates of the status quo - they are so parochial! The best health care I ever witnessed was when I lived in Germany for a year and needed to be in hospital for a few days - the service was amazing even though I had to pay 11 marks a day (about $8 at the time) - I guess for you that would be some sort of crime against social justice. --------------------------------------------------------------------- I have written the federal health minister many times as well as Gordo 'i'll do what I want campbell' So why bother charging you for 8 dollars a day seems silly to me, just pocket change! When you have actually have worked in Helath care for over 20 years like myself and many others. You might actully understand things better. You and all the other pro privateer's your just tooting someone elses horn. To bad the horn is big BS paid for with Big Money! You haven't a clue....... You and your type are more than likey the same bunch who voted in Brian 'sell us out' Mulrouny.... Vote Harper and we will be finished sooner... He loves the Yanks, private healthcare and everything else that can be made more expensive by lying about it.
  26. even steven from Wayout West, Canada writes: Not for profit?
    Do doctors, nurses, LPNs, administrators, all health care industry workers donate their time? NO. They all work for their own profit, just like most of the readers here.
    And how does the not-for-profit concept get funded? TAXES. That most of you pay. And what is a government surplus? PROFIT. yes...
    it also means that you and I have paid more taxes than the government needs ... so we are overtaxed ... and what will the government do with the surplus money? Libs, NDP and Greens would all spend it rather than return the overtaxation to us. Indeed the Libs want to continue overtaxing us by at least $3 BILLION per year. which is about $100 for each man woman and child per year or about $400 per family? Who can better use the $ you or 'the government' (bureaucrat raises, entitlements, etc)
  27. Randal Oulton from Toronto, Canada writes: >> James Tod from Vancouver, Canada writes: Harper wants to privatize the Healthcare industry

    Has it not occurred to you that about one-half of all healthcare in Canada -- eyecare, dentalcare and pharmacare -- is delivered by the private sector? I'm not saying they should be, just saying -- hello, our public health care system only goes half way so stop pretending it is a glorious cover-all for all Canadians equally.
  28. Rafael Sanchez from Ottawa, Canada writes: I am more than fed up wih the 'sacred cow' approach to health care in this country. My rights are also violated when I have to queue up to get much needed medical services. I can spend my money in a cruise or a sport cars or some other luxury item yet I am blocked when I try to take care of my health.

    This stupidity has to stop!
  29. Systemic Risk from Canada writes: r s from Canada - so since you are such a wonderful progressive who clearly won't tolerate any dissent - do you favour outlawing private provision of the other necessities of life? Private education, private housing, private food procurement? Without food you'll die, ergo we must nationalize Loblaws, according to your logic. Would all those areas be equally 'improved' by handing them over to monopoly control by bureaucrats and unions? You tell me.
  30. suss man from Canada writes:

    The Harper government wants out of having any responsibility to the Canadian people.
  31. Rain Couver from Canada writes: So, a few years back the UK was having a hard go of their universal health care, long waits, people taking advantage, unequal service in different parts of the country. I think it was Sir Liam Donaldson was appointed to review and make suggestions as how to improve the system. He came up with very painful and difficult changes, but once the dust settled, the English medical system became outstanding and the model for how universal health care should be delivered. There are also several countries in Europe that have extremely effective medical systems that can also be modeled. Why are we not looking at those systems and making the right choices to make sure that everyone gets prompt and world-class treatment instead of allowing the specter of an American style, for-profit, system destroy one of the most important Canadian institutions?
  32. richard l from Picton, Canada writes: Once ALL Canadians can access health care services, it may be acceptable to enforce a public system only mantra. Until that is achieved, how dare any group attempt to deny another person the ability to look after themselves. If they don't want me looking at private treatment, fix the public system so I don't have look elsewhere.
  33. Systemic Risk from Canada writes: Rain Couver - you are exactly right. As part of the reforms in the UK, there is also now private care and insurance although neither is widely used since during the same there has been a massive reinvestment in the public (NHS) system and performance has gone up accordingly. This would seem to undermine the basic argument of the reactionary left in this country that ANY private options would cause the public system to collapse. If this were true wouldn't it say more about the state of the public system than any alternatives?
  34. Bosco . from Toronto, Canada writes: James Tod from Vancouver, Canada writes: Harper wants to privatize the Healthcare industry, not support the public system. Chose wisely on October 14th!


    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Taliban Jack Layton use the Shoaldice Clinic, a private operation funded with our tax dollars?
  35. Systemic Risk from Canada writes: suss man from Canada writes:

    The Harper government wants out of having any responsibility to the Canadian people.
    ~~~~~~~~
    Where do you come up with statements like that? Okay, I will make an equally meaningful one:

    'Jack Layton is Kim Jong Il's gay lover'

    Whew - that felt good!
  36. Scrappy T from Canada writes: If I am willing to pay for health care, this is still a free country, I should be able to.

    If we talk about 'for profit', does anyone really know how much money is being charged to OHIP for their 5 minute visit, less to get a prescription renewed.

    Even annual exams only take 20 minutes with most of the work being done at a hospital or specialty clinic.

    Lets look at all the options in a program that is broken.
  37. Shawn Bull from Canada writes: I support a mix of private and public. If you can afford private then go private. If not, then we have one of the best public healthcare systems in the world....just another reason why Canada is the greatest country in the world.
  38. Bosco . from Toronto, Canada writes: This whole 'not for profit' thing is interesting. I get that everybody wants to make a buck, but when your doctor insists that you come into the office for something that can clearly be done over the phone, ie a referal. You know this is so that an office visit can be billed to OHIP. I should be able to go to a private clinic if I like.

    Jack Layton has his head up his a$$, isn't he the guy who lived in a co-op with comrade Olivia? When challenged about it his explanation was that it was geared to income so it was justified. Co-op's are there to allow lower income people to be able to afford a place to live, but no Taliban Jack didn't see that what he was actually doing was removeing an oppurtunity for someone less fortunate.
  39. jack Bauer from Canada writes: Lets see, private clinics more efficient at ohip rates, and no mention how many hospital visits are freed up....oh wait this is a good solution to the doctor shortages......what a bunch of crap written by left wing fanatics with no sense of delivering services, only sheep will follow this report.
  40. D Epp from Canada writes: The American insurance companies are salivating at the thought of Canada switching to private healthcare. Don't be fooled, it is the insurance companies that run the health care system there. And, insurance often doesn't cover some illnesses.

    Canada should be (and is) looking at various European models. Our system does need adjustment, but certainly not a switch to U.S. style healthcare.

    Try going to google com and finding news articles about health care premiums. You'll find that premiums increased by 5% this year and are forecast to increase again next year. Most people pay deductibles - some as high as $1000. And their premiums? Singles, $4,704; families, $12,680 annually. And that's even if they don't have a claim.

    In Canada, only three provinces charge health care premiums. B.C.'s $54 a month cost is a bargain compared to what I would pay in the U.S.

    I say fix Canada's system, but keep it universal and keep it affordable. Those of you who can afford to go to the U.S. or other places and feel affronted because you can't leap ahead of others in Canada, go.
  41. B.C. Expat from Ottawa-Hull, NCR, Canada writes: I love how everyone has to jump onto the usual boogeyman bandwagon -- 'it's like teh Americanzzz!!' -- the second you look at reshaping the medical system to deliver the best outcomes. Like in most things, obviously the optimal system is going to fall somewhere in between the extremes in the U.S. and Canada -- and yes, tepid, fence-sitting Canada represents an extreme on this spectrum!

    Getting people out of the queues because they're willing to pay more also benefits those in the queues. Efficiency is a good thing, even when (or particularly when) it offends your ideological sensibilities. Anyone wishing to deny the best health care utility possible in the name of ideology is, well, they obviously don't actually care about health, just slogans.

    And no, it doesn't make all doctors jump to the private side because there's a little thing called supply and demand which ensures that only as many as needed will actually end up there, and all those remaining in the public system are not exactly going to be medical school dropouts.
  42. suss man from Canada writes:

    Systemic Risk from Canada writes: suss man from Canada writes:

    The Harper government wants out of having any responsibility to the Canadian people.
    ~~~~~~~~
    Where do you come up with statements like that? Okay, I will make an equally meaningful one:

    'Jack Layton is Kim Jong Il's gay lover'

    Whew - that felt good!

    -------------------------------------If he felt at all for the Canadian people he would tell us what his platform is. If he is not willing to lay down his platform I can only assume he does not have my interests at heart and will implement the agenda he championed during his time at the NCC.
  43. Apu Nahasapeemapetilon from Vancouver, Canada writes: Okay, for those advocating the shut down of private clinics; does that include the private abortion clinics as well?

    Also, then please explain why the government of NB was fined under the Canada Health Act by the Chretien government for not funding a PRIVATE clinic as the NB government wanted only fund the delivery of the service offered by the private clinic in a public hospital.

    James Tod from Vancouver, Canada writes: Harper wants to privatize the Healthcare industry, not support the public system. Chose wisely on October 14th!

    James, then please explain how the Cambie Surgical Centre opened in Vancouver in the mid 1990's under a NDP provincial government and a Liberal federal government?? And one of the Liberal MP's, Ujjal Dosnajh was a cabinet minister in the NDP government that allowed Cambie to open and send WCB and ICBC claimants to avail of its services.
  44. Squish_a_p From BC from Canada writes: We must abolish private health care but we must make public health care show accountability. Health care is not a business, it is a necessity. Honesty and integrity is what it's all about.
  45. mike lis from Toronto, Canada writes: As a proud canadian I can only say that our health care system is total disgrace and shame for our country. It is actually worse then in the third world country. CANADIANS ARE DYING DEFENDING THE MEDICARE. Bring us 2 tier health system just as in any civilized nation. Save our less fortunate sick citizens from the sanctimonious NDP/Liberals/Green demagogues
  46. Gill Tober from Montreal, Canada writes: I was worried about an issue with my blood pressure and I went to a walkin clinic here in Montreal The doctor was more like a used care salesman and when I mentioned that I have private insurence he asked me if I would like to join this Executive Medical Plan. I agreed, paid 495 to have a full check up and results within a week. I remember sitting in the waiting room on a nice leather chair on the 6 floor of an office building eating fruite salad and drinking coffee after my blood was taken. It was sad to think that if i didn't have the money or the insurance I would have had to spend the whole day at the hospitol to get these tests done. This system benifits the rich while the lower class have to wait for weeks to months for results.
  47. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    The Charter of Rights gaurantees private health care.

    'Security of person'.
  48. J F from Canada writes: The Ontario Health Coalition is a union front. The unions have a monopoly on public healthcare delivery and they don't want any competition. Talk about for profit healthcare, the unions are the ones making the fat profits while adding nothing useful to the system.
    Surprising that the news media doesn't focus on this.
  49. N S from Canada writes: And Harper continues listening to the private clinic lobbyists.......
  50. Angry West Coast Canuck from Canada writes: So people think Canada's healthcare is broken, and want to move towards a more American system? One where 15% (or more) of their population can't get basic healthcare? One where people commonly go bankrupt because they can't afford the health bills? One where only the rich get help, and the poor can just go die?

    Not for me thanks. There are ways to fix our slightly broken system (only slightly) without throwing out everything that makes our system one of the better ones in the world.
  51. O N from Canada writes: Canada is the only country in the world other than North Korea and Cuba to ban private health care. Every single country in Western Europe has two systems. Canadians have been brainwashed to think that they have the 'best' system in the world to keep them quiet while they re waiting 6 months for an MRI scan.
    About time for private delivery!!
  52. jck from ontario from Canada writes: Canada's healthcare system is broken and it is up to the provinces and the Fed's to fix it . Last I looked we are in the middle of an election and not a word . Medicare is a provincal responsiblity with about 15% of the money from the Fed's . Our healthcare sytem is rated at the bottom of the western world by WHO and the OECD time to do something
  53. Chester Drawers from Canada writes: One instance Jack 'On His High Horse' Layton says that private for profit health care is bad. Then he has surgery, a few years ago, in the Shouldice Private For Profit Clinic. Then trys to weazel out of it with the weak explanation that it was paid for by OHIP.

    Either you are against private for profit, but publically funded health care or you are against it. Either you shut down all the private clinics in Quebec or you allow others to start up. There is no middle ground for you Jack 'Yappy Little Toy Poddle' Layton.

    Just like the George Orwell's Animal Farm, some animals are more equal than others. So Jack I guess you are more equal than the rest of us Canadians.
  54. Systemic Risk from Canada writes: suss man - platform comes out tomorrow but Harper, when questioned, says every time he supports the Canada Health Act (which does not ban private care if paid 100% by individuals - it does ban for-profit insurance and care paid for by medicare). Constitutionally what the feds think is irrelevant anyway - they can provide funding but policy is the purview of the provinces. Find another reason not to vote for Harper (I'm sure you'll have no trouble...).
  55. The West is Booming from Canada writes: Canada has had a two tier system for many years. Private surgical clinics have thrived in BC, Ontario, and Quebec for many years supported by the Liberals, NDP and Bloc. Stop the hypocrisy and face the facts. Our public system is a joke and can not serve the public with any semblance of service. Go to private clinics in Canada or the US if you want timely care.

    PS. Who is going to tell Quebec to close its private clinics, one of which serves Paul Martin
  56. Systemic Risk from Canada writes: Angry West Coast Canuck - has anyone on here advocated US style health care on here? - read my posts; I favour a universal insurance with mixed delivery system like France, that near the top of all international surveys on health care. It also allows you to use public insurance in private clinics, thereby providing choice. Costs more than Canada spends but less than the US. Canada and the US are at two extremes and neither is much of a model for anyone.
  57. O N from Canada writes: It is impossible for the system to work. A simple fact of supply and demand. 260000 people are added yearly through immigration. That is simply more demand with no match in supply. Keeping prices fixed, shortages occur - thus waiting times. Today Canada has the lowest number of doctors / 1000 population in the Western world.
    Solution? increase supply dramaticaly - wont happen in the public system because it costs too much.
  58. DCM DART from Montreal, Canada writes: I as a proud Canadian am very frightened by our medicare system (and NO, I don't want an 'American-style system). I'm frightened because I know so many older people who had serious traumas or potentially fatal conditions who had to wait ridiculous, medically dangerous amounts of time for both diagnoses and treatment. One day, I will be one of those 'older people'. We should look at the Europeans, such as in France, Germany and Austria who have implemented mixed-provider systems so that we Cdns. also will have a system which is both sustainable and responsive. Let's fix our system responsibly by using what works in other non-U.S. countries. Let’s do away with the tired 'no 2-tier' slogans.
    We already have multiple tiers and we're not going back to 1-tier anytime soon. If gov'ts give themselves the legal monopoly to supply 70% of the medical services in Canada, then we have to hold them accountable to provide medically sensible reponsible service. That way we don't need to die on waiting lists or live in pain for months at a time due to lack of service. This is NOT a private/public debate..it’s a choice between effective or ineffective medical care for all.
  59. Chester Drawers from Canada writes: The West is Booming - right on.

    If you want universal health care you have to put it back into the hands of those that are efficient. private for profit clinics that are publically funded.
  60. suss man from Canada writes:

    O N from Canada writes: Canada is the only country in the world other than North Korea and Cuba to ban private health care.

    ---------------------------Read Harper's pontifications from his NCC chairmanship and you will quickly see he wants to abolish all vestiges of public, universal health care.
  61. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: I pay a $125 per year 'clinic membership fee' in Ottawa. My doctor does not like to work full time (he's in his 60s and does 4 days per week), but he wants to ensure that he can still maintain enough revenue to run a clinic. This is how he does it. He uses the $125 annual fee to boost his revenue stream, which allows him to ration patients while still keeping the clinic open. He is almost never hurried like other doctors, and takes as much time as is needed with each patient. If he couldn't do this, he would likely retire, and I'd join the ranks of the millions of other Ontarions without a family doctor. It is well worth the $125 per year to me. Those who complain about 'double-billing' are just spouting the usual ideological spew. I have a doctor because he is allowed to double bill.
  62. O N from Canada writes: Suss man - No politician in Canada has the guts or integrity to change this broken system. If Harper does it then he is my hero. Politicians simply want to get elected with no real interest in fixing anything, sometimes the truth annoys and scares people and thus is avoided - as the case is with Canada's health care system.
  63. Hung Long from Hong Kong writes: The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Some Canadians are using their own hard-earned money to buy medical services from willing Canadian providers. The government must prosecute these evildoers!

    Of course, if these for-profit clinics are providing abortions, then it's all right.
  64. A R from Toronto, Canada writes: The problem is that when doctors go to boutique clinics in order to give special service to extremely wealthy very high paying queue jumpers they are not working in the public system - that means the rest of us have to wait longer for services. It's not a coincidence that the city where its hardest to get a doctor according to StatsCan is Montreal which also has the highest number of doctors who have opted out of medicare and the greatest number of these private clinics.

    There is a direct correlation between a shortage of doctors, waiting lists, and this sort of private care so don't fool yourself into thinking it doesn't matter because it's just a few rich people paying money to jump the queue.
  65. I love Canadian Rockies Cleavage from Canada writes: My theory is that those with money support private clinics, and those in the lower income brackets do not. Mmmmmmmmmmmm.
  66. L B from Canada writes: I don't agree with the two tier system, its frightens me, look at the usa it is so bad, thats where we are heading,I want to thank Chretien and his so called brain dead mps, when they were in, they cut back on health care so bad, that wasn't the only disaster they cut back on, now they can only brag about the huge surplus they had,congratulations you idiots you opened the door for a two tier health system, I want to thank the liberals for destroying what we had.and to boast about the surplus,, good bye Dion and the rest you kooks.
  67. Common Sense from Toronto, Canada writes: Most Canadians now know that it's easy to just go across the border, no more than 2 hours from most Canadian centres, and get the kind of medical care they deserve. Why wait in pain for months on end in order to appease an ideology? We don't have the best health care system in the world and anyone who has had any serious illness or condition knows that.
  68. I love Canadian Rockies Cleavage from Canada writes: Happy Go Lucky. I am at this very moment looking at the doctors parking lot out my window, populated by mostly family G.P.'s : Jaguar, Audi, Volvo, BMW, Big trucks and SUV's. Nurses parking has toyota, chevy, honda entry level for the most part. What exactly is unsustainable?

    MMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
  69. richard l from Picton, Canada writes: In answer to - 'those with money support private clinics'.

    You will also find that people take the private clinic approach rather than suffer greater illness by waiting excessive time for treatment.
    Should I have accepted blindness rather than choosing to pay for treatment?
  70. I love Canadian Rockies Cleavage from Canada writes: Well Richard I, your response appears to point out the extreme, which probably would not happen. Further, a choice like you are putting forward should not happen in civil society.
  71. O N from Canada writes: I love Canadian Rockies Cleavage from Canada - The system is not working and is not sustainable. THAT IS THE POINT. Canada has the worst health care system in the industrialized world, because of an ideology that is only applied in North Korea and Cuba.
  72. TERRI R from Kimberley, Canada writes: The health care system of Canada is under siege from those who demand no SOCIALISM it does not seem to matter that there are those who do not have the ability to pay OBNOXIOUS medical bills,instead the status quo would have us believe that two tiered is the best way to go. And that will losen up waiting times.
    For some reason there is a fear amongst those coward conservatives that socialism is an evil. Get a grip. The sky is not falling just because Canada has medicare. and other safeguards to protect it's citizens.
    Why do those same coward conservatives give corporations WELFARE in the forms of grants;subsidys;lower taxrate while the hardworking Canadian gets ....ZERO.....

  73. Denis Love from Victoria BC, Canada writes: The latest gimick in Bc is a deal where the B.C Automobile will sell insurance so if a wait time for a MRI is more than 45 days, they will haul foks somehwere else.

    Last time I waited for a MRI the expected time was six months. The specialist said he didn't like private MRI's but as my condition was considered urgent he would recommend I pay the 14 hundred dollars to get it within days at at a private clinic. I reminded him I had been around prior to Universal medical and I'd be damned if I was going that route. Our much hated provincial government allows the MRI and CAT scan units be rented out on off hours. The hospital authorities limit the operating hours for the public as they are too cheap to bring in a night shift. The machines run 24 hours a day and just sit there, so their rational is why not rent them out. so a piece of equipment we all trough taxes pay for, end up being a way for the private operators to make a ton of money
  74. Jimmy Jensen from Toronto, Canada writes: Why are private CT and MRI clinics such a travesty to our cherished Health care system but private abortion clinics are perfectly ok????
  75. stretch from yonder from Canada writes: As some have already alluded to......the very successful, efficient, cost-effective systems in Europe which provide far superior service to their citizens ........is 'shockingly' public-private systems........or 2 tiered if you will.

    Why do all Canadians have to suffer with a system that is not working for anyone???
  76. Keating Gun from Canada writes: Worker's Compensation Board treatments, any privately insured illness or injury and all politicians' insurance is private, yet the researcher hasn't mentioned these long-standing practises. I question the merit of her arguments as anyone who takes herself off of a public waiting list (if there actually is a line-up; usually there isn't) frees up a space for someone else in the public hospital sector. I also hasten to add, as others have also, that everyone in medicare is there to profit and make a buck for themselves, save and except the hospital structure which is only trying to balance the books, but usually while wasting taxpayer dollars with gay abandon. Ontario has a single payor government insurance plan but ALL ONTARIO MEDICAL SERVICES ARE FOR PROFIT AND ARE PERFORMED BY PRIVATE PRACTITIONERS. Privately paid care has better confidentiality and treats patients far more respectfully and graciously, possibly because they have the resources to go elsewhere and to sue if they are harmed.
  77. O N from Canada writes: stretch from yonder from Canada writes: As some have already alluded to......the very successful, efficient, cost-effective systems in Europe which provide far superior service to their citizens ........is 'shockingly' public-private systems........or 2 tiered if you will.

    Why do all Canadians have to suffer with a system that is not working for anyone???

    Because Canadians are stuck on ' universal health care for all' all that have to wait six months for an MRI. Even in third world countries you dont wait that long. It is just that Canadians are in denial about the dysfunctional health care system, they dont want to admit it is not working, and they are always being referred to the US system as if it is the only system on earth. Well it is not.
  78. Roger Cooper from Canada writes: If there was any true leadership in Ottawa, the federal government would not 'urge' provincial governments to enforce the Canada Health Act. It would demand they do and withdraw transfer payments if they did not.
  79. Ben SGT/USMC from United States writes:

    I think that Cuba has a policy on this...
  80. Antonio San from Canada writes: Here is a direct comparison between Canada's health care system and France efficiency; Canada: One visit MD referral to a ORL specialist (no treatment), 4 months wait, 10 minute exam and a spray prescription. No in depth investigation just superficial treatment. Cost to me= the spray. Cost to the system i.e. me as a taxpayer: MD billing, ORL specialist billing and BC health card and high bracket taxes... France: in a one week period, visit to a top Paris ORL, 30 minute exam, requisition for analysis and a scanner, analysis performed the following day, scanner booked for the following week in a public health care facility, follow up visit a 30 minutes. Result: in depth knowledge of the problem and informed diagnostic, personal CD data of the scanner, one month oral treatment and spray. Cost to me as a tourist (paying in full, no reimbursing): twice 58 euros visit, 40 euros analysis, 140 euros scanner and 25 euros medication= $480 cdn. Of course if I were under the social security, I would have been reimbursed in part but that's also their high taxes... So How many of us having a chronic problem would willingly pay the $500 that we otherwise pay to the 'system' through care cards, doctors billing and taxes to get in ONE WEEK what the Canadian 'professionals' (and arrogant specialist to boot) could not deliver in FOUR MONTHS? And I could have chosen a private clinic and get it faster... The Canadian Health Care system is a shame and an ideological hypocrisy that wastes our resources. All coward politicians are accomplice of this waste and deserve our scorn and the boot!
  81. R. M. from Regina, Canada writes: By nature (demographics, geography, etc) our health care system is a paragon of equal access to unequal services = waiting lists, crowded ER rooms...and so forth.

    Even Taliban Jack goes to a private clinic funded, oddly, by taxpayers but it does mean he can jump in line a lot quicker likely through his annual 'membership' fee. God Bless Jack the hypocrite.
  82. j wilson from vancouver, Canada writes: Ben, youre right, the US and even Canada could take a lot of lessons away from Cuba, and medicine is indeed one area.

    Nice to see youre enlightened and not some redneck with his eyes closed...
  83. Harbinger from Out West from Canada writes: If you think health care run by the Feds is OK why not let them run all the grocery outlets in Canada too? Six month wait for strawberries? No shortage of dentists tho. They take cash, cheque, dental plan, debit cards, etc. I'd rather die than have a two tier system.
  84. Commander Adama from caprica, Canada writes: A friend of mine got back from Cuba. He had surgery to repair a Herniated disc.

    Took him 3 weeks to get in cost 5 K, plus airfare. He got to recoup on a nice beach.

    Sure lets make health care better, close down those private clinics. Makes sense, close down clinics and improve health care.

    Maybe pass a law banning Canadians from paying for medical care in foreign countries.
  85. Anti Fascist from Canada writes:
    Make our Health Care system better than it is that is what needs to be done, also erect a monument on Parliament Hill to Tommy Douglas.

    Go to Cuba for some pointers, Vote Jack Layton he'll see to it.
  86. O N from Canada writes: Antonio San

    Good Point!! to all those who think the US system is the only alternative! Wake up Canada, the system is not working.
  87. baldev sood from toronto, Canada writes: WHAT IS PRIVATE HEALTH CARE/?
    Let me explain to you that I went to a publicaly funded hospital clinic for some eye problem.
    The opthlmologist told me that I need catract surgery and he can refer to a private facilty where the surgery ca be done immediately and he will perform it.
    Whereas if I want in this hospital there is line up and surgery may be performed by an intern.This is private or shady private.
  88. all good from qubekistan, Canada writes: The canadian system is pefect. Actualy is so good that other 2 countries in the world have the same system: North Coreea and Cuba. The only difference is that they have more doctors.
  89. Margaret Ahsan from Winnipeg, Canada writes: In a multi-tiered system doctors are free to jump from private to public. Who then gets timely and adequate care? The private,of course. Any time left over will hardly make a dent in the wait list for those who can't afford the private system. Also,if the US insurance companies get their claws in place,even those who might afford some private health care will be denied insurance due to pre-existing conditions. Anyone hear of the co-pay system. The insurance company may pay something if they agree to cover you at all,but you pay the rest,and it isn't peanuts. It will probably prevent you from getting health care at all,even if you need it because the insurance company just might cut you off altogether.At least in Canada everyone can get health care when needed.
  90. Vickky Angstrom from Canada writes: Having two tiered health care is not going to create more doctors or nurses -- it will just take more doctors and nurses out of the public system.

    Two things need to happen to make sure healthcare in Canada works: 1) Monitor the provinces to make sure they spend health transfer payments on health care. and 2) train thousands more doctors and nurses.

    Only the NDP has these two things as part of their platform.
  91. O N from Canada writes: Margaret Ahsan from Winnipeg, Canada writes:At least in Canada everyone can get health care when needed.

    Yes they can get it 6 months later if they re lucky. It is shameful and cannot be defended. It is a scam to say'people get free health care in Canada' The accurate statement is - People get free health care in Canada after 6 months of waiting. No whereelse in the industrialized world does this happen.
    • Posted 06/10/08 at 8:45 PM EST |