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Ontario Pork marketing board loses monopoly

The Canadian Press

Latest comment posted at 9:06 PM EST 08/10/08

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  1. Greg Out West from Canada writes: It's great to see producers in the east being able to market their own livestock as well as their own grain. It would be nice if producers in western Canada got the same respect.
  2. Thom as from Canada writes: I remember a warehouse of eggs being destroyed by the egg marketing board rather than put a sale on to get rid of them, just to keep prices high.
    These marketing boards should all be dropped, they restrict and control what farmers produce, then regulate the products at the consumer level...get rid of them.
  3. Michele K from Ottawa, Canada writes: Greg, not that I was out to answer your post, but I before seeing it, I was about to post myself that while I think it's ultimately a dumb decision by pork producers NOT to continue to band together, particularly during tough times, it appears though that this WAS a democratic decision made by the pork producers themselves.

    As opposed to the high-handed and anti-democratic actions of the Harper Cons, who against the majority opinion of of the Wheat Board members themselves, are doing all they can to destroy the wheat farmers' collective power so as to put their big business friends like ConAgra in charge.

    You Harper Cons are no different than the Quebec separatist movement against which you continually railed (well, prior to Stephane Dion's great success in shutting them up via the Clarity Act). Then, it was unfair for Quebec separatists to keep forcing a separation question upon Quebeckers, who had already said, 'no' again and again (and the questions prior to Dion were indeed unfair). But apparently, it's OK for you Cons to continue to do all you can to destroy the Wheat Board - in abject unfairness and disrespect of democratic institutions.

    And you, Greg, sound just like the American anti-unionists down in the US south, trying to snow voters into accepting no minimum wage standards (understand, people being forced by circumstances to work for under $2/hour), but putting a 'positive' spin on it, by calling themselves 'right to work' states.

    'Right' to work indeed - more like the right to be endentured slaves, just as farmers without a Wheat Board would become when forced to sell their own wheat to the ConAgra's of this world.

    Sure, they'll have a 'right' to sell their own wheat, of course, but at what price?
  4. John G from Newmarket, ON, Canada writes: As an Ontarian I am glad that pig farmers are free to sell their pork products wherever they like. It's good for business.

    As a vegetarian, however, I am still upset by the way animals are treated in large farms.

    As a pig, my feelings toward the Ontario Pork Board have not changed. I still demand my freedom!
  5. Michele K from Ottawa, Canada writes: So Thom As (interesting monicker - makes one think...), how much additional farm subsidy are you prepared to pay once the farmers are on their own selling their crops, because believe you me, if you think farm subsidies are bad now, just wait.
  6. Yvonne Wackernagel from Woodville, Canada writes: I would like to see the Dairy Farmers of Ontario GONE! They are the ones who keep the price of milk up so that families now find it difficult to buy milk for their children; the farmers are NOT getting their fair share. I wish some of you in the know would write about this so that the urbanites might be educated.
  7. Randal Oulton from Toronto, Canada writes: Australia did away with its milk marketing boards, and the quality and variety of cheeses there exploded.
  8. JM Work from Canada writes: Ah Michelle, its good to see you are earning your Lieberal stripes.

    Even a pork topic can be turned into a debate about Harper and the Americans. Damn pigs... didnt know bacon could be so politcal.
  9. E. Thomas from Toronto, Canada writes: JM Work from Canada writes: Damn pigs... didnt know bacon could be so politcal.

    Pigs have become political ever since George Orwell's Animal Farm, or maybe even well before when the concept of "pork-barrell" politics was invented. ;)
  10. Cland Destine from Toronto, Canada writes: We should follow on thing from the U.S. And that is country of origin lable COOL.

    I want to know EXACTLY where my food is coming from, and will help me buy Canadian. Don't we have that right, to know where it is from?
  11. john earl from Charlottetown, Canada writes: Yvonne Wackernut from Woodville. You show up on quite a few different threads , with quite a few opinions on everything. And the one constant is that you don't have a clue about anything. The Dairy Farmers of Ontario represent dairy farmers who work in a supply managed system. This system ensures a fair return to farms that operate within it. Consumers benefit from safe, fairly priced products and farmers can count on a fair return for their investment and labour. Get it?
  12. Cland Destine from Toronto, Canada writes: Oh goodness there is no real cheese left in the stores for the most part.

    Look on the back, and if you see anything but Milk...most noteably "Modified Milk Ingredients" you are likely eating something that wasn't even made from milk, but "BUTTEROIL" shipped in from new zealand or the U.K.

    You have to buy from real cheese shops now to find things made from milk, it's all fake now.

    What's surprising is the price, even though the cheese itself is made from this cheaper that plastic BUTTEROIL.
  13. zipi dachimp from Canada writes: I wish you people who can't spell would stay off these forums! bummer!
  14. Mike Z from Saskatoon, Canada writes: Michele K from Ottawa -- Why is it that farmers from Western Canada aren't allowed the same freedoms as farmers from Ontario? We're not even talking different crops / markets -- the same exact crop, but if you happen to live in Ontario you have choices as to who to sell it to, but if you live in Saskatchewan you don't!

    Please tell me how this is fair. If the monopoly was actually better for the farmers, don't you think the Ontario farmers would be clamouring for it? I haven't heard them doing so, and I have heard a lot of Western farmers clamouring for their own rights to be respected.

    I guess that is what it comes down to. Farmers sell their crops / produce, and demand the same right to choose who to sell it to that you and I have in choosing who to sell our labour to.
  15. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Mike Z:-- If Canadian producers decide to end their single-desk advantage, that is up to them. It is, of course, a one-way street (under NAFTA, it will be gone for good). Unfortunately, the Harper government hasn't exactly let producers decide by themselves and for themselves. The Harperites want the CWB gone and so they have militated against it. A fair, transparent, and open process would produce a result, whatever it ended up being, that could be respected.
  16. Yvonne Wackernagel from Woodville, Canada writes: "john earl from Charlottetown, Canada writes: Yvonne Wackernut from Woodville. You show up on quite a few different threads , with quite a few opinions on everything. And the one constant is that you don't have a clue about anything. The Dairy Farmers of Ontario represent dairy farmers who work in a supply managed system. This system ensures a fair return to farms that operate within it. Consumers benefit from safe, fairly priced products and farmers can count on a fair return for their investment and labour. Get it? " ================================================ THAT is your unintelligent opinion, but we are in the agricultural business and have a h--ll of a lot of capable dairy farming friends and they do not share your opinion. As a matter of fact, a lot of them have or are planning on quitting the business and they are NOT losers; just intelligent people who can see that YOU WILL LOSE THE MARKETING BOARDS. KEEP UP WITH THE INTERNATIONAL NEWS. I have nothing else to do but to read ALL the agricultural press and the cost of having the Dairy Farmers of Ontario Board is unhealthy! So, if you are not a Board member, just because you may not be in a financial position to get out, or you like the status of being a 'big show' with a h--ll of a lot of debt to -quite probably- Farm Credit -which is sourced wiith some of MY money and which makes a loss EVERY YEAR, you can go get it! I am not as stupid as you think and I will offer to pay for the venue to argue this out with you whenever you choose!
  17. Yvonne Wackernagel from Woodville, Canada writes: The Supply Management in Canada has been a hindrance to negotiations at the World Trade Organization and now that some European countries have set a timeline for dismantling their processes, it is only a matter of time. Check out the Productivity Council set up by the Liberals -No.7 =Get Rid of the Marketing Boards.
  18. Conservatives Lie from Canada writes: This is horrendous news that the average commentator here clearly doesn't grasp. A provincial regulatory body not only protects the average producer from being undercut by factory farms, but it also protects consumers by guaranteeing safety and inspection standards.

    Or did we not learn our lesson from listeriosis?
  19. Not PC from Canada writes: While deregulation (of what-ever ilk you wish) may seem like a good idea remember that a good deal of the current economic turmoil is due to deregulation.
  20. ALASTAIR JAMES BERRY from Nanaimo BC, Canada writes: I sympathize with this view........"Yvonne Wackernagel from Woodville, Canada writes: I would like to see the Dairy Farmers of Ontario GONE!.................................. Ontario used to set the world price of cheese at THE BELLEVILLE CHEESE EXCHANGE..........Belleville was quoted in the Financial sheets daily........then Trudeau pushed to reorganize agriculture with marketing boards focussed on the local markets only, AND TO HELL WITH OVERSEAS CUSTOMERS or possibilities!! It makes me sad to see the DAIRY SHELVES in HK, S'Pore and Taipei, supermarkets, filled with butter and cheese from New Zealand and Denmark..........even some from BRITAIN.............BUT CANADIAN PRODUCT NOWHERE TO BE SEEN!! All the old farmers with MIXED FARMS walked away: it was too expensive to store milk for pick up every fourth day: previously the cans were picked up daily. Since supply management the number of dairy farms has decreased steadily. Because the cost of "CARRYING QUOTA COST" which often equal the cost of the farm or cows...........Milk and milk products are about twice what they should be!...............AND THE AVERAGE CITIZENS SUFFER, but the banks like the interest they get on these carrying costs!!
  21. David Patricks from Canada writes: As a small farmer, I am glad to see the loosening of the grip of the "supply management model". As consumers, if you want clean, natural food grown close to home, small farmers need an avenue to access certain markets. Marketing boards, especially in Ontario, act more like the mafia than "advocates for farmers" at times.

    Now if we can shake up the poultry "mafia" we may be able to diversify our products and negate the need for subsidies.

    I see a lot of very uninformed opinions here. Some fact-checking may help some of you modify your stances.
  22. Richard Merriman from Reunion writes: Time to get rid of the archaic quota system entirely for all products. Let all farmers access the market on a level playing field!
  23. Thom as from Canada writes: Yvonne Wackernagel ... have you heard of the milk marketing board, they control how much milk each farmer can produce and sale, they set the price of milk, not the farmers
    This is glorified socialism. If a farmer finds a better way of doing things, cutting costs etc., it means didley squat because he can only sale so much and he can't pass the savings on to the consumer.
    We Canadians had better get our blinders off and learn more about what is going on around us.
  24. Benjamin Franklin from Canada writes: SOOOOOOWEEEEEEET
  25. David Patricks from Canada writes: Conservatives Lie from Canada, I just read your comment. You do not have a grasp on the facts. The truth is actually 180 degrees from where you are headed with your "opinion". It makes me sad to see such ignorance.
  26. JM Moulin from Canada writes: All pigs are equal.
    Some pigs are more equal than others.

    I thought David Miller has the head of pork in Ontario.

    Just the wheat board, milk board and chicken board left now. Cows and chickens of Canada unite and fight for your right to overcharge everyone.
  27. Mike Z from Saskatoon, Canada writes: diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Mike Z:-- If Canadian producers decide to end their single-desk advantage, that is up to them. It is, of course, a one-way street (under NAFTA, it will be gone for good). Unfortunately, the Harper government hasn't exactly let producers decide by themselves and for themselves. The Harperites want the CWB gone and so they have militated against it. A fair, transparent, and open process would produce a result, whatever it ended up being, that could be respected.

    ------------------------------------------------------
    With respect, Diane, I disagree. Nobody should have the right to tell me that I must sell the fruits of my labours only to themselves.

    I am not for the removal of a marketing board, only the removal of their monopoly. If farmers want to sell through them, that should be their right. It should also be their right not to sell through them if they do not want to.

    Every one of us should have the freedom to sell our services where we wish. You should have the right to quit your job and get another one if you wish. This is exactly what the problem here is. Farmers are told they can farm all they want, but they can not sell it to anyone other than their respective board.

    This is sort of like you being told that if you want to work you have to report to the local Board office, and they will assign you to work wherever they deem it needed. You don't have the right to choose where to work, and you don't have the right to change jobs.
  28. anthony rockel from Canada writes: All the pork has gone into the election campaign.
  29. Yvonne Wackernagel from Woodville, Canada writes: The Wheat Board was proving to be a good marketing tool for ALL farmers. The ones who live near the border thought they could save a little by not going through the Board; also the big American companies felt they could undermine their positions for more gain. In any event, I thought I read that the farmers VOTED in favour of keeping the Wheat Board. What right has the Conservative Govt. have to poke its nose into a democratic situation - to influence a special interest group?
  30. J. Douglas from Burlington, Canada writes: Randal Oulton from Toronto, Canada writes: Australia did away with its milk marketing boards, and the quality and variety of cheeses there exploded.

    Randall, I had a cheese explode in my fridge. It was not a pretty sight.
  31. Mike Z from Saskatoon, Canada writes: Yvonne Wackernagel -- Since when is it democratic for the majority to force the minority to give up their democratic rights?

    That is exactly what is going on here. It is irrelevant whether the majority of farmers want or do not want the Wheat Board; if even one farmer wants the right to sell to whomever they want to, that right should not be taken away.

    I have no desire to see any board removed, but I do want to see them lose their current ability to force Canadians to sell to them or not at all. Every farmer should have the right to sell where they wish to, to whomever they wish to. If they choose to sell to the board in the hopes that the collective expertise and buying power and contacts will get them a better value, that should be their choice. The idea that this option should be forced on them is undemocratic.
  32. Conservatives Lie from Canada writes: Wow David Patricks, so the extent of your attack on my posting is "you're wrong!!". Well, you can scream and have a hissy fit like a child all you want, but the fact remains you present no real argument and the regulation of the pork and milk industries protects independent family farms AND consumers.

    De-regulation helps faceless, factory farms. Fact.
  33. Randy McClure from Canada writes: Mike Z ... you have the typical attitude of an ideologue. Did you notice in the article that the idea of removing the pork marketing board was driven by the processors who didn't like dealing with the monopoly. Do you think that might have been because they want to pay LESS for pigs? Do you see where I'm going. Increasing the number of suppliers of pigs to the processors only does one thing -- it increases competition among producers -- driving down prices for farmers. A few really big farmers will see their overall volumes increase but price per pig go down. The other farmers will get hosed. This happened in Manitoba. The conservatives government of Gary Filmon removed the board as part of a deal to get a maple leaf processing plant built in Brandon. Now 80% of pigs sold in Manitoba are bought by Maple Leaf (listeriosis anyone?) and we are down to about 1000 pig farmers in the whole province. Has the price of bacon gone down in the stores? No. Have the incomes of pig farmers gone down? Yes. Why certain ideological farmers can't see where this is going just plain baffles me. They assume they will be better off on their own but the facts speak for themselves. Hardly anyone benefits except the lucky few with access to large amounts of capital.
  34. Mike Z from Canada writes: Randy McClure -- You raise what sound like good points. In an effort to understand, can you please explain to me why, if the Wheat board is such a good thing for farmers, Ottawa saw fit to enact it in the Prairies, but not in its own backyard? Why are the wheat farmers of Ontario not demanding their own Wheat Board?

    As well, can you please explain why the potential benefits that you brought up are so overpowering that they should be bought at the price of the freedom of those farmers? In a situation where the board exists but farmers are not required to use it if they do not wish to, wouldn't the board still flourish if it provided the benefits you insist it does provide?

    As I said before, I am not advocating the elimination of the Wheat Board, only the same rights for farmers here as the farmers in Ontario have; the right to sell to the customer(s) of their choice, be it Wheat Board or someone else. Please tell me how that makes me ones of those dreaded "ideologues".
  35. Randall Westgren from Champaign, United States writes: Not all marketing boards are created equal. Some are cesspools of 19th Century market-power polemics, such as the Wheat Board and the Ontario Milk Board. Others are modernizing slowly, looking for ways to deliver what consumers want. The Alberta and Ontario Pork Boards are at the top of this list. But there are a few truths in all this. The biggest is that supply-managed boards (dairy, poultry) are in business to transfer vast amounts of money from consumers to producers due to their monopoly and monopsony status (not even OPEC has this!). Even inefficient producers are protected in these schemes, protected from competition that would force them to invest, improve, learn. All paid for by working folks across Canada. the other truth is that the Wheat Board stifles innovation, homogenizes product to a less-than-ideal level, and violates WTO rules.

    Thanks for the comment thread. I love the shrill, disrespectful, vomit that is spewed on this subject. It shows that Canadians aren't the polite, reasonable folks that the world's societies presume them to be.
  36. Trudeau's Apricot poodle from Canada writes: Pork unbarrelled. Hard to believe at re-election time.
  37. David Patricks from Canada writes: Well, Conservatives Lie from Canada.......I wouldn't exactly have called it a screaming, hissy fit......I merely wanted to point out the error of your line of thinking. I would be interested to know how many "large factory farms" you visited and how many "small, local farmers" you visited in your fact-finding. If you have been to even one of each I would be suitably impressed.

    Facts:

    1) We have a "independent family farm" and without very expensive quota's (if they are even available) we cannot sell enough poultry or eggs to make a decent living. We cannot sell milk or milk products at all. It is blocked to our "independent family farm" as an avenue to support ourselves.

    2) Quota's force farmers to produce the cheapest possible food they can while just getting over the regulatory health bar. They need to get bigger to survive and resort to technology and modern drugs to keep their chickens/pigs etc alive in unnatural conditions. They do produce cheaper food....but you don't see the savings...they do!

    3) Further to 2) above. the food they produce is cheaper NOT better. Naturally raised food will always be healthier for you and easier on the environment. Large farms cannot raise food naturally the way a small farmer can. Go visit a local farm if you don't believe.

    4) In other countries where they have removed supply management, they have seen a generally positive effect on the producers themselves and the reduction of subsidies.

    I hope I haven't upset you with the "vitriolic tirade" above.
  38. Fred Forest from London, Ontario, Canada writes: De-regulation.. let the markets decide.. let the mighty squeeze every last dime out of the consumer. De-regulate it all just don't come back looking for a 700-billion dollar bailout. I know human beings are generally pretty short sighted but these social experiments and the invisible hand of the market is an argument that I suggest has just been proven wrong in the current configuration. Countries with the highest quality of life, most citizen involvement and best standard of living are not the ones which allow the free market to decide much at all.
  39. Steven Ferguson from Canada writes: Reducing monopolies to provide more choice to both consumers and producers is a good move. Congratulations to the government for having the gumption to do it.

    Now if they would only take on the millionaire dairy farmers and get rid of the milk monopoly we might be able to buy fairly priced milk for our children.
  40. michael moore from minaki, Canada writes: The Ontario hog farmers fought long and hard to set up a marketing board that could give them single-desk selling, so they wouldn't all be undercutting one another. The arrival of the Ontario Hog Producers Marketing Board (as it was called then) took the economic control from the packing plants and truckers and gave it to the farmers -- all the hog farmers.

    Sure, there are always a few farmers who think they can get a better deal for themselves by stabbing their fellow producers in the back, but the hog board kept prices stable and fair for all producers.

    That did not mean that they could charge any price they wanted. If hogs weren't selling in the price range they were offering, they had to lower it. (The packers had to bid blind against one another in a declining-price [Dutch] auction.) But it meant that some hog farmers did not get sweetheart deals at the expense of the rest. That helped stabilize the industry, which helped producers and consumers alike.
  41. glen quagmire from Canada writes: Yvonne Wackernagl you seem to have a lot of anger. You mention that the money borrowed for dairy farms is likely owed to Farm Credit. Farm credit has approximately 30% of term loans across Canada. You also mention it is likely some of your money, however FCC is not subsidized they borrow funds on the bond markets like every other financial institution, so it is not your money funding the dairy farmers.

    I am not sure how this conversation changed to an attack on supply managment. The Ontario pork board is not a form of supply management, it was simply an inefficient method of marketing hogs. The large players can do a better job themselves.

    As for supply managment it is the best thing for Canadian agriculture. If quotas were removed the price of milk, chicken and eggs would remain stable and the profits would remain in the hands of the processors not the producers. We pay more in Canada for Milk and eggs than the US but we also pay more in Canada for every other commodity, cars, electronics, pop,. A comparison between Canadian and US milk prices is not fair since we pay more for most things. I tend to think it is simply due to larger consumption in the US leading to more product at lower prices......1st year economics.
  42. Rob Gilgan from Canada writes: Steve Ferguson - what if they get rid of the milk quotas, as you wish and the price of milk for your children doesn't change, but the margins just go to the processors and retailers instead of the producers? Would having poor dairy farmers make you a happier man? And once all the poor dairy farmers are gone are you going to be happier with more expensive imported milk for your children?
  43. Randal Oulton from Toronto, Canada writes: >> J. Douglas from Burlington, Canada writes: Randal Oulton from Toronto, Canada writes: Australia did away with its milk marketing boards, and the quality and variety of cheeses there exploded.

    >> Randall, I had a cheese explode in my fridge. It was not a pretty sight.

    Haha!
  44. john earl from Charlottetwn, Canada writes: Yvonne Wackernut. Milk Marketing Board Bad , Wheat Marketing board Good? Do you even know where you stand on theses issues?
  45. john earl from Charlottetown, Canada writes: Steve Ferguson. If the government gets rid of Supply management , eventually most food products will be produced by vertically integrated agri businesses like Smithfields , Carghill , Mcains etc. Once these few giants have created a situation with little competition for themselves , they will increase prices to the consumer .
    Be carefull what you wish for.
  46. been there from Canada writes: Anybody else get the connection? Ontario and pork in the same sentence. LMAO.
  47. Flat broke in the backwaters of Lanark from Canada writes: It's about time that Hog Producers got a break. These guys have been under siege for years now. I swear that the Province has been trying to put them all out of business by forcing each one to install a sewage treatment plant.

    all because of two drunk brothers in Walkerton... go figure eh?

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